S03.E07: Here Comes A Candle To Light You To Bed

[gonzosgirrl]

Did someone say birthday? Come celebrate at Buster Beaver’s with our new Deluxe VIP Birthday Package, with seating for up to 30 guests, ten large two-topping pizzas, and ten pitchers of your choice of soda! And of course, a special birthday play starring Buster Beaver and his cast of furry forest friends! All for only $199.99 + tax! Buster Beaver’s Pizza! Where Kids Make the Rules®!

 

Edited July 1, 2022 by gonzosgirrl

[gonzosgirrl]

Welp, Jensen did not lie. Soldier Boy is definitely not a good guy. But he is selling the shit out of it. I'm a little disappointed that we got the full story via exposition - and animated exposition at that. I still don't think he deserved to be tortured and experimented on, but I get now why his team was so will to turn him over to the Russians.

Butcher is not far off as far as being a douchebag goes though. He was horribly abused by his father, but then left his little brother to the same fate. Ugh.

Hughie appears to be growing a conscience again - I wonder how Starlight is going to react to Butcher willingly sacrificing him to the Temp V.

And Maeve. Ah, brave Maeve. I truly hope there is some payback for her, preferably in the form of castrating Homelander.

And kudos to all those who called the relationship between SB and HL. I can't believe there's only an hour left to wrap this all up.

[Castiels Cat]

32 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Did someone say birthday? Come celebrate at Buster Beaver’s with our new Deluxe VIP Birthday Package, with seating for up to 30 guests, ten large two-topping pizzas, and ten pitchers of your choice of soda! And of course, a special birthday play starring Buster Beaver and his cast of furry forest friends! All for only $199.99 + tax! Buster Beaver’s Pizza! Where Kids Make the Rules®!

It was up as of 8:30 pm est.

I expected the last part with SB and HL...

And the Kimoko part...

Butcher and Hughie dying... well there have been nosebleeds and nails coming off.

Huh. I think it may become permanent or they take permanent v to save themselves, more likely the latter given how quickly Kimoko was healed and especially given now that Butcher sees it as a necessary leg up.

As for SB being awful... He has some very human traits; the dude was a diva and a bully. What his team did was worse. We also saw a very one-sided narrative that didn't necessarily match up with Mallory's recollections. Neither may be the exact truth everyone has a perspective and a version of the story that is imperfect.

Noir is biased. If SB beat the crap out of someone whom he trusted that attacked him and ambushed him... I have no problem with that. 

Noir  clearly has psychological problems. I would be interested in seeing SB's memory. 

We definitely have seen anger management  issues and violent, hair trigger responses from SB. We have seen sarcastic, caustic wit. We have seen maniacal focus on the job... crazy gung ho knife throwing shield smashing driven killer. 

Edited July 1, 2022 by Castiels Cat

[gonzosgirrl]

Ohh, I can't believe I forgot about that opening scene. Seems like Soldier Boy really does like his women well-seasoned. LMAO!! Delicious, but a little dry. OMFG. And the full video of his 'Robert Mitchum tribute' is priceless.

[Castiels Cat]

10 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Ohh, I can't believe I forgot about that opening scene. Seems like Soldier Boy really does like his women well-seasoned. LMAO!! Delicious, but a little dry. OMFG. And the full video of his 'Robert Mitchum tribute' is priceless.

That was unbelievable. Paul Reiser is a gift.

[BabySpinach]

The speculation that's been floating around about Soldier Boy and Homelander was right on the money. I'd have preferred that Soldier Boy stayed an asshole anti-hero, but this and the cartoon exposition were the nail in the coffin for any possibility of him not being a full-blown villain. The likelihood of him being in season 4 (ie. surviving the final battle) has drastically diminished, given the side he's now on. Black Noir definitely has unfinished business with him.

But holy shit, Butcher, that was a new low even for him. He's not a good guy, but he's one of the main protagonists! And I feel like Hughie may take another Temp V dose even if he knew; he seemed perfectly willing to get disintegrated by SB's chest nuke as acceptable collateral alongside Butcher last episode.

Edited July 1, 2022 by BabySpinach

[gonzosgirrl]

2 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

Paul Reiser is a gift.

That he is. Scenery chewing at its finest.

I also forgot about A-Train. Was Ashleigh serious that they gave him Bluehawk's heart? OMG.

[Castiels Cat]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

That he is. Scenery chewing at its finest.

I also forgot about A-Train. Was Ashleigh serious that they gave him Bluehawk's heart? OMG.

IDK. Yes and she will make him pay dearly for it.

[gonzosgirrl]

Just now, BabySpinach said:

And I feel like Hughie would willingly take another Temp V dose even if he knew; he seemed perfectly willing to get disintegrated by SB's chest nuke as acceptable collateral alongside Butcher last episode.

I'm not so sure - he said he just wanted to go home when he teleported Mindfucker (sorry I can't recall his real name) out of the cabin. But then it really didn't take much convincing from Butcher to go get some more at the end.

[Castiels Cat]

2 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

The speculation that's been floating around about Soldier Boy and Homelander was right on the money. I'd have preferred that Soldier Boy stayed an asshole anti-hero, but this and the cartoon exposition were the nail in the coffin for any possibility of him not being a full-blown villain. The likelihood of him being in season 4 (ie. surviving the final battle) has drastically diminished, given the side he's now on. Black Noir definitely has unfinished business with him.

But holy shit, Butcher, that was a new low even for him. He's not a good guy, but he's one of the main protagonists! And I feel like Hughie would willingly take another Temp V dose even if he knew; he seemed perfectly willing to get disintegrated by SB's chest nuke as acceptable collateral alongside Butcher last episode.

Why do we think Noir is good.

If Homelander was that crazy and had cartoon characters talking to him about why he was justified in locking up Maeve would we think he was good.

I am not sure we have enough information.

There is nothing that tells me that Noir is good, noble or a hero. All I see is that he did Stan's dirty work, he's f'd things up, he's mentally I'll, he is not a good team member. His cartoon friends can be rationalizing what Noir thinks. It is no different than HL talking to himself in the mirror IMO.

And Butcher identified PTSD currently which we know is going on even if SB won't admit it.

[DeeDee79]

Wow, what an ending. I've read the speculations online and I had an inkling myself, but I didn't think that they would go there and reveal that Soldier Boy was actually Homelander's father. I suppose it makes sense with the comments from HL about being born in a tube, raised in lab and his mirror convo about being fixated on mommy and daddy in the last ep. As interesting as it would have been to see him depowered even briefly, I was skeptical that they would actually do it. 

Jensen and Kripke did warn us that Soldier Boy was not a good guy with no redeeming qualities and boy did we see that in this episode! It felt a little strange seeing Jensen play a character that's such a piece of shit, but he really sold it because SB is absolutely loathsome. 

Seeing Butcher's upbringing really made me feel for him and it explains so much about why he turned out the way that he did. And then he decided to lie to the only person in the world that gives a shit about him at the moment about a literal life or death situation and all of my empathy went out of the window. What the actual fuck, Butcher. 

Glad to see that Maeve is still around and I'm wondering if she and Noir will join the fight against Homelander and Soldier Boy in the finale. 

[gonzosgirrl]

26 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

The likelihood of him being in season 4 (ie. surviving the final battle) has drastically diminished, given the side he's now on.

Frenchie seems to have figured out why the Halothane didn't work on him, so I'm guessing it will be back to the cryochamber for him.

[DeeDee79]

43 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I'm a little disappointed that we got the full story via exposition - and animated exposition at that.

Yeah, I was not a fan of this at all. 

[AntFTW]

Why is the Deep soooo weird?

[Bergamot]

23 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I'm not so sure - he said he just wanted to go home when he teleported Mindfucker (sorry I can't recall his real name) out of the cabin. But then it really didn't take much convincing from Butcher to go get some more at the end.

I think that maybe if Butcher said, "Let's just forget this whole thing and let someone else take care of Homelander", Hughie would be glad to agree with him. But I don't think he wants to let Butcher down or leave him to fight alone.

I don't know, I was wondering if maybe the reason that Butcher is lying to Hughie about the danger of taking the Temp-V is because he is going to prevent Hughie from taking it, but doesn't want to tell him why, because he knows that Hughie would try to stop Butcher from taking it as well. That seems awfully convoluted though. I guess I am just trying to come up with some kind of excuse for why Butcher did not tell Hughie that the Temp-V will kill him.

[Castiels Cat]

3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Frenchie seems to have figured out why the Halothane didn't work on him, so I'm guessing it will be back to the cryochamber for him.

Yes.

SB is a real-life bully with superpowers and larger than life sized temper.

HL torments and tortures. Killing Supersonic to make a point to Starlight. That is evil. Making the Deep eat his friend. That is evil.

Still no comparison.

[gonzosgirrl]

Just now, Bergamot said:

I think that maybe if Butcher said, "Let's just forget this whole thing and let someone else take care of Homelander", Hughie would be glad to agree with him. But I don't think he wants to let Butcher down or leave him to fight alone.

I don't know, I was wondering if maybe the reason that Butcher is lying to Hughie about the danger of taking the Temp-V is because he is going to prevent Hughie from taking it, but doesn't want to tell him why, because he knows that Hughie would try to stop Butcher from taking it as well. That seems awfully convoluted though. I guess I am just trying to come up with some kind of excuse for why Butcher did not tell Hughie that the Temp-V will kill him.

This seems logical, especially after watching his little brother kill himself after he abandoned him. He's used it three times now though - so maybe Butcher figures they're both screwed anyway, might as well go out with a bang.

[MAK]

Another fantastic hour! RIP Mindstorm.

So, three generations of supes. Wonder who the egg donor and/or surrogate for Homelander was. Another supe maybe? Even if he's a clone, still would need a surrogate. 

Hughie going backmto being Hughie.

Butcher's backstory was so tragic. I really wonder if he'll let Hughie take another dose. He might not have told him about what Annie said, but that could be because he doesn't think Hughie would listen. 

Brave Maeve indeed.

Soldier Boy definitely a bad guy. A bully who believes his own hype. Wonder if we'll get more of his background before he was given V? Since it seems V only ramps up whatever is already there, it won't be pretty.

Loved Kimiko and Frenchie. 

[Boadicea]

This episode, for me, raises the question, seeing just how much of a brutal bully SB is, of why would you give a person like that something that gives him superpowers and makes him immortal? (That’s strikes me as every bit an intelligent choice as trying to hide a child on the same planet where his father was raised, among relatives, while also keeping his father’s last name. It also makes you wonder just how stupid Anakin  was since he couldn’t find him.)

And exactly what was that with the priest and the nun? Were they supposed to be working for Vought?

[Aithne]

What a good episode! Laughed at the REO Speedwagon in SB's opening scene, remembering the SPN usage. We're a long way from Dean and Jo in that scene. 

The Butcher/Lenny backstory was as painful as expected, but I didn't realize Lenny killed himself that young. And I certainly didn't expect how Butcher left. But he can't help himself, can he? I hope this is a misdirect with Hughie. 

My sweet boy Frenchie is back to substance abuse and being the resident chemist? Nice return to our season one roots. Of course Kimiko wants back on the V, and I loved the interplay between her and Annie, and between MM and Frenchie. Thought all the stuff with this little foursome was lovely and sweet. Just really well-meaning people trying to do the best they can. I love it. I hope Butcher's not totally over the edge and we can pull everyone back together. 

The Noir stuff was weird. Don't know what more to say about that. And Maeve is an absolute badass. Love her so much. 

Interesting ending, with SB saying he'd have let Homelander have the spotlight. 

Can't wait for the finale! 

Edited July 1, 2022 by Aithne

[roctavia]

4 minutes ago, Boadicea said:

This episode, for me, raises the question, seeing just how much of a brutal bully SB is, of why would you give a person like that something that gives him superpowers and makes him immortal? (That’s strikes me as every bit an intelligent choice as trying to hide a child on the same planet where his father was raised, among relatives, while also keeping his father’s last name. It also makes you wonder just how stupid Anakin  was since he couldn’t find him.)

And exactly what was that with the priest and the nun? Were they supposed to be working for Vought?

I think SB was saying mindhunter was controlling them/brainwashed them to attack SB and Hughie. 

As for Butcher... he wasn't there when his brother died... so I wonder how much of that was accurate, did he really kill himself or was it the dad? Did he really blame Butcher for leaving when it sounds like he couldn't get back to him etc. 

[DeeDee79]

I forgot to add that I've always loved Crimson and Clover. Damn you Homelander for ruining it! 

[Frost]

That hour went very quickly!  With the team so split up, we just got a little taste of everybody.  I still want Little Nina deader than a doornail.  I hope she isn't forgotten when everyone is on their own revenge tour.

I'm curious as to how close Black Noir's cartoon pals' play was to the "truth."   SB certainly came across as a loathsome bully.  I'm not sure about the story about only being an on-camera hero, though.  His shooting was pretty accurate, shooting the nun while she and Hughie are struggling.  And his reconnaissance in the shack looked pretty good (in the opinion of someone who watches TV 😃.)   I hope Noir's relationship with his buddies isn't as intimate as Deep's with Audrey!  I don't like Deep's wife, but kudos to her for not putting up with that.

I don't really get the MM story line.  The scenes with his ex-wife, daughter, and wife's new husband seem out of step with the rest of the storylines.  We already have MM's angst about his grandfather, do we need this whole family drama as well?  There are too many characters and stories for an 8 episode season to handle.   

[Myrelle]

I don't know what to think after this one.

So Soldier Boy IS Homelander's dad. I know it was specced by no few, but I kind of half thought that it might be too predictable.

And now the whole Noir thing makes it seem like Soldier Boy's ending might be predictable too.

Hope I'm wrong about that.

And I don't know why, but it felt to me like Soldier Boy might have been feeding Homelander a line there when he called him at the end. Probably not though. 

I'm a little confused as to what Frenchie found out about the vapor from the torture video. 

I loved that Soldier Boy was right about the priest and the nun.

And again all the little things. MM telling Frenchie he's a mess while putting taking 5 minutes to put the joint out.

Soldier Boy hearing voices. Is he heading for a psychotic break. He also seems to truly believe that he fought for his country. And *I* believed him too! I wish it were! I still want to root for him even after all these horrible revelations. 

So everyone just wants to protect their family seems to be an ever on going theme with Kripke's projects.

Not sure what to think of Butcher because I think he's got something up his sleeve too where it concerns Hughie. Like maybe he's going to call Starlight or something. But again, probably not.

Maybe I'm just looking for conspiracies everywhere because I'm not real thrilled where it looks like things are headed after this one.

Homelander's plans for Maeve are pretty awful, but then again, Vought used Soldier Boy similarly.

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Ohh, I can't believe I forgot about that opening scene. Seems like Soldier Boy really does like his women well-seasoned. LMAO!! Delicious, but a little dry. OMFG. And the full video of his 'Robert Mitchum tribute' is priceless.

Loved all of this too, and that they were cleaning ladies was Gold. Oh, and the Robe was To. Die. For. 

And A-Train lives!-but with Blue Hawk's heart. How messed up is that?

[Aithne]

3 minutes ago, Frost said:

That hour went very quickly!  With the team so split up, we just got a little taste of everybody.  I still want Little Nina deader than a doornail.  I hope she isn't forgotten when everyone is on their own revenge tour. 

I'm sure Kimiko will kill her. But they might go back to that well one more time to get their hands on the nerve agent. 

[DeeDee79]

1 minute ago, Myrelle said:

I don't know what to think after this one.

So Soldier Boy IS Homelander's dad. I know it was specced by no few, but I kind of half thought that it might be too predictable.

And now the whole Noir thing makes it seem like Soldier Boy's ending might be predictable too.

Hope I'm wrong about that.

And I don't know why, but it felt to me like Soldier Boy might have been feeding Homelander a line there when he called him at the end. Probably not though. 

I'm a little confused as to what Frenchie found out about the vapor from the torture video. 

I loved that Soldier Boy was right about the priest and the nun.

And again all the little things. MM telling Frenchie he's a mess while putting taking 5 minutes to put the joint out.

Soldier Boy hearing voices. Is he heading for a psychotic break. He also seems to truly believe that he fought for his country. And *I* believed him too! I wish it were! I still want to root for him even after all these horrible revelations. 

So everyone just wants to protect their family seems to be an ever on going theme with Kripke's projects.

Not sure what to think of Butcher because I think he's got something up his sleeve too where it concerns Hughie. Like maybe he's going to call Starlight or something. But again, probably not.

Maybe I'm just looking for conspiracies everywhere because I'm not real thrilled where it looks like things are headed after this one.

Homelander's plans for Maeve are pretty awful, but then again, Vought used Soldier Boy similarly.

Loved all of this too, and that they were cleaning ladies was Gold. Oh, and the Robe was To. Die. For. 

And A-Train lives!-but with Blue Hawk's heart. How messed up is that?

I agree especially with the bolded points. I knew that SB was going to be a villain but I had hoped for him to be more in the grey area. I didn't think that they would go full scale evil after doing the same with Stormfront. 

[Aithne]

4 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I'm a little confused as to what Frenchie found out about the vapor from the torture video. 

Presumably that what knocked Soldier Boy out need not have been an anesthetic gas, as MM had assumed when he tried to use the halothane, but that it could've been something else (this nerve agent) and the vapor was just a way to make it able to be inhaled.  (Remembering S2, when Mallory said he'd weaponized Xanax to use against a supe who was activated by anger - maybe a similar concept.) 

[Myrelle]

10 minutes ago, Aithne said:

Presumably that what knocked Soldier Boy out need not have been an anesthetic gas, as MM had assumed when he tried to use the halothane, but that it could've been something else (this nerve agent) and the vapor was just a way to make it able to be inhaled.  (Remembering S2, when Mallory said he'd weaponized Xanax to use against a supe who was activated by anger - maybe a similar concept.) 

Thank you.

But if this means that he's going back to the cryo chamber in the end, I'm going to hate that.

Still rooting for him to get away.

But then again I wanted Walter White/Heisenberg to get away in the end too. 

Go figure. 🤷‍♀️ 

[DeeDee79]

I'm also wondering if A-Train's near death experience and his grief over his brother's condition will cause him to fully commit to his redemption or if his renewed health will encourage him to continue on as he has been. 

[Cthulhudrew]

20 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I'm also wondering if A-Train's near death experience and his grief over his brother's condition will cause him to fully commit to his redemption or if his renewed health will encourage him to continue on as he has been. 

I feel like if they haven't had A-Train redeem himself by this point (after 3, 4 opportunities?) the writers aren't planning on having him turn a new leaf at all.

1 hour ago, Aithne said:

Presumably that what knocked Soldier Boy out need not have been an anesthetic gas, as MM had assumed when he tried to use the halothane, but that it could've been something else (this nerve agent) and the vapor was just a way to make it able to be inhaled. 

Frenchie identified it as Novichok, aka Putin's favorite assassination tool. It's kind of strange that they would have used it on Soldier Boy to try and take him hostage, as it is very, very lethal. Maybe it affects him differently than other people due to his body chemistry (ie, interacts differently with Compound V). It does explain SB's high levels of radiation, though.

ETA: Correcting myself, as I just realized I was confusing Novichok (nerve agent) with Polonium (radioactive poison), Putin's other favorite assassination tool.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Cthulhudrew

[PurpleTentacle]

Butcher is a piece of work. The whole episode he is tormented by how he his partially responsible for the death of his little brother, wishes the whole time he'd done things differently and then he goes and does the same thing again at the end of the episode. This time he's even more responsible and this time he knows better. Still, he does it.

It is great TV, but it's also frustrating.

Black Noir's flashback was great and told in a creative way. So soldier boy was just a massive piece of shit, pretty much on Homelander-level. If it's true that Homelander is his son, I guess we have to open up a nature vs. nurture debate. Was it really just his shitty upbringing that made him like he is? What does that say for Ryan?

Also interesting to see just how exactly Noir got the scars and brain damage.

[PurpleTentacle]

3 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

There is nothing that tells me that Noir is good, noble or a hero.

He clearly isn't a hero. I'm still quite sure that the cartoon flashback is accurate. It matches the flashback we got from Grace, the complaints gunpowder launched against Soldier Boy to Vought and what gunpowder told Butcher.

Just because Noir is an asshole doesn't mean that soldier boy isn't a psycho on the level of Homelander. Kinda seems like it's hard for people to accept that Jensen Ackles is playing a straight up villain.

3 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

he's mentally I'l

He has brain damage from the fight with soldier boy.

3 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

SB is a real-life bully with superpowers and larger than life sized temper.

HL torments and tortures. Killing Supersonic to make a point to Starlight. That is evil. Making the Deep eat his friend. That is evil.

Still no comparison.

Soldier Boy seems to be about the same level of controlling, petty and vain as Homelander. Who knows who he killed to make a point? He certainly threatened to kill Noir, if he ever tried to star in a movie again. Crimson countess hated him, yet she stayed in "a relationship" with him, presumably out of fear for her life. Remind you of anything we saw this season between a certain caped man and a woman who is wave and particle at the same time?

SB and HL seem to be about the same to me. It's just that we haven't seen a lot of SB yet.

3 hours ago, Myrelle said:

I'm a little confused as to what Frenchie found out about the vapor from the torture video. 

That it's just a delivery mechanism for Novichok. A group of nerve agents, usually deadly, but just a temporary knockout for soldier boy.

[Smad]

Aww isn't Homie such a nice guy? Instead of literally raping the woman this time, he is just going to medically rape her. Swell guy.

Really, show? At this point I hope Maeve dies next episode. I'm so done with her only being used as Homelander's chew toy for 3 Seasons.

Of course SB is HL's daddy. Totally predictable since they need to stall the inevitable.

Black Noir...that was certainly a reveal I didn't see coming. Cartoon characters? He really got screwed up.

[gonzosgirrl]

It's interesting how thoroughly convinced Soldier Boy is that he is a hero and 'not a bad guy'.  I mean, he had me fooled! I don't know that there's enough time left to show his side of the story,  but since we've seen a version of it from Grace, The Legend and Noir, it seems pretty conclusive that he is indeed a bad guy. It still doesn't mitigate 40 years of torture, but he doesn't get any parades either. But yeah, he seems like a pretty badass fighter and marksman - where did those skills come from? His acting coach? 

They are really doubling down on V enhancing and twisting what is already inside. Seems like they never knew what they were going to get when they injected the subjects,  but know we know that it wasn't random. Butcher and Hughie get the same powers back each time from the Temp V, and now Kimiko has hers restored. 

[BabySpinach]

35 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

They are really doubling down on V enhancing and twisting what is already inside. Seems like they never knew what they were going to get when they injected the subjects,  but know we know that it wasn't random. Butcher and Hughie get the same powers back each time from the Temp V, and now Kimiko has hers restored. 

Yeah, I do feel like the powers you get (and whether you survive) are based on your genetics. That's why they made Homelander from Soldier Boy even though they still had to treat the resulting zygote/embryo with Compound V. Ryan's lasers were already confirmed to be more powerful than his dad's, so the genetic potential for power seems more potent with each generation. I don't like it when super-powerful kid characters take center stage (trauma flashbacks to SPN *shudders*), but Ryan will likely have a big part to play in the next seasons, if not this coming finale. 

Edited July 1, 2022 by BabySpinach

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, BabySpinach said:

Yeah, I do feel like the powers you get (and whether you survive) are based on your genetics. That's why they made Homelander from Soldier Boy even though they still had to treat the resulting zygote/embryo with Compound V. Ryan's lasers were already confirmed to be more powerful than his dad's, so the genetic potential for power seems more potent with each generation.

I'm not sure where you get that Ryan's lasers are "confirmed to be more powerful." The fact that he blasted Stormfront more severely? It could be that Homelander also is capable of the same or greater output but has more control over his powers/did not want to unleash full force lasers, while Ryan did.

Even assuming that Ryan did something Homelander fundamentally couldn't do, it would be a further stretch to extrapolate that the genetic potential for powers grows with each new generation based on the one example of one power being stronger in Ryan than in Homelander.

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, BabySpinach said:

Yeah, I do feel like the powers you get (and whether you survive) are based on your genetics. That's why they made Homelander from Soldier Boy even though they still had to treat the resulting zygote/embryo with Compound V. Ryan's lasers were already confirmed to be more powerful than his dad's, so the genetic potential for power seems more potent with each generation. I don't like it when super-powerful kid characters take center stage (trauma flashbacks to SPN *shudders*), but Ryan will likely have a big part to play in the next seasons, if not this coming finale. 

Do we know if Ryan has been given compound V? I can't recall...

[BabySpinach]

5 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I'm not sure where you get that Ryan's lasers are "confirmed to be more powerful." The fact that he blasted Stormfront more severely? It could be that Homelander also is capable of the same or greater output but has more control over his powers/did not want to unleash full force lasers, while Ryan did.

Even assuming that Ryan did something Homelander fundamentally couldn't do, it would be a further stretch to extrapolate that the genetic potential for powers grows with each new generation based on the one example of one power being stronger in Ryan than in Homelander.

Kripke confirmed in an interview that Ryan's lasers were more powerful than his dad's. https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/the-boys-season-3-ryan-homelander-powers/

Homelander is also stronger than SB, so that's two for two in apparent genetic concentration.

2 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Do we know if Ryan has been given compound V? I can't recall...

No, he was a big deal because he was the first natural-born supe.

Edited July 1, 2022 by BabySpinach

[Myrelle]

3 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

No, he was a big deal because he was the first natural-born supe.

Oh my, I wonder if Soldier Boy is going to learn of his new "grand baby" next episode...🙃

[Myrelle]

7 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Just because Noir is an asshole doesn't mean that soldier boy isn't a psycho on the level of Homelander. Kinda seems like it's hard for people to accept that Jensen Ackles is playing a straight up villain.

It doesn't mean that he is either, though.

It is jarring seeing him play someone who seems to be so morally corrupt, but I have to hand it to Mr. Ackles for being brave enough to try his hand at a complete turnaround  character from the last one he played and for over 15 years!

And the reviews for him seem to indicate he has once again succeeded at capturing some kind of lightning in a bottle already. So more power to him for that. The comic fans seem to have embraced him even more now that there's the connection with Homelander.

But I can't get past the feeling that on some level, Soldier Boy likes both Butcher and Hughie even after this episode, so my miniscule hope is that he'll double cross Homelander for Butcher, but it's miniscule because I think it's far more likely that Homelander will double cross his daddy because I still feel that Homelander is relatively worse than his daddy, in most ways. 

7 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

SB and HL seem to be about the same to me. It's just that we haven't seen a lot of SB yet.

The bolded part rankles because I hoped for more about his childhood/pre compound V days, but with so many characters to write for in just 8 episodes, it doesn't seem likely we'll get that now, nor his POV on what happened in Nicaragua so he's had to do a lot with the character in very little time and with very little fleshing out through the writing. 

That he might be conpletely losing his mind is perhaps the most interesting aspect of the character for me right now.

So I guess this is somewhat how the Homelander fandom feels too.

It's all so interesting to me. I just don't see how they're going to let this all go in a truly satisfying manner or way in just one episode.

It seems like a cliffhanger is imminent and even called for, IMO.

They did a time jump at the beginning of this season though, so we'll see, I guess.

[Bergamot]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It's interesting how thoroughly convinced Soldier Boy is that he is a hero and 'not a bad guy'.

Yes, that is interesting. I mean, he is amazingly functional considering that he was just released from decades of torture, but his grasp of reality seems pretty tenuous, to say the least. He did not seem to be intentionally lying about D-Day. I get that he is supposed to be a metaphor for America -- and just in case we didn't get it, there was that very obvious anvil dropped on us with the Legend's comment about how "to be American" means believing that we are the good guys and heroes. But for an individual to be so delusional about the specific facts of his own life is pretty weird. I mean, Soldier Boy is not talking to cartoon animals, but he is not right in the head either.

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

But yeah, he seems like a pretty badass fighter and marksman - where did those skills come from? His acting coach? 

That's a good question. Maybe he didn't storm Normandy on D-Day, but he does seem to have some soldier-like skills. The way he can assess and deal with possible threats, the way he can handle himself in a fight. Unfortunately Soldier Boy's background before he became a Supe is a big blank spot in the story, so there's no way to know. Maybe he was already a soldier when he was given the Compound V. Also, the Legend specifically says that he saw no action in Germany, but that was not the only place there was fighting in World War II. So I guess it is possible that before Vought started experimenting on him that he was actually in the war.

[ahrtee]

17 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

That's a good question. Maybe he didn't storm Normandy on D-Day, but he does seem to have some soldier-like skills. The way he can assess and deal with possible threats, the way he can handle himself in a fight. Unfortunately Soldier Boy's background before he became a Supe is a big blank spot in the story, so there's no way to know. Maybe he was already a soldier when he was given the Compound V. Also, the Legend specifically says that he saw no action in Germany, but that was not the only place there was fighting in World War II. So I guess it is possible that before Vought started experimenting on him that he was actually in the war.

It does make sense that if someone wanted to create an American hero during a war, it would be a supersoldier to help America win.  And the best way to get a supersoldier is to find someone who is already a very good soldier, with good skills (and good looks!) and supercharge him.  Then they build a legend around him that makes him front and center in all the major wins for his side (whether or not he was actually there.)  

Or maybe he actually *was* at Normandy, but as a regular human, pre-V; and Vought chose him from there to give him his powers.  That would explain why he's so positive he was there, and why "Soldier Boy" didn't appear there till later.

Edited July 1, 2022 by ahrtee

[Bruinsfan]

Not terribly surprised about the big paternity reveal, but the nearly immediately lethal effects of Temp-V took me off guard. As did Black Noir's cartoon friends, though I laughed my ass off at Soldier Boy as a cartoon bald eagle swearing up a storm in Jensen Ackle's voice. The Kimiko & Frenchie and Kimiko & Annie scenes were just wonderful. I really like that Annie has genuinely befriended all of the team apart from Butcher, and is no longer "Huey's supe girlfriend that maybe can be useful to us." Both the ladies overcoming their fears to do what they have to in order to protect people were powerful story elements, and I really like how Frenchie's reactions and acceptance of being the weaker half of a couple(?) contrast with Hughie's. I'm also enjoying Soldier Boy a lot more now that more of his horribleness is showing through.

[mac123x]

Great episode, but honestly, while Urban and the guest starts acted the shit out of those nightmare flashbacks, I so dislike current-day Butcher that I had a hard time caring.

I also got taken out of the show when Starlight just strolled into the Tower, to the lab, etc.  Oh,she burned out one security camera, that explains it (not).  Homelander would have just lasered her the moment she stepped into view.  He didn't know she was streaming on InstaVought.

This season has been fantastic, but next  week is the finale, and I'm afraid it's going to be a contrived mess like S2, trying to wrap up too many story lines and doing a crap job with each of them as a result.

14 hours ago, Frost said:

There are too many characters and stories for an 8 episode season to handle.   

Definitely!  I wonder if Chase Crawford has some blackmail pictures of the producers or something, since The Deep is so superfluous to all the rest of the plots.  Either that or Kripke  has some bizarre crustacean fetish and uses him to act it out on screen. 

[MAK]

6 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It's interesting how thoroughly convinced Soldier Boy is that he is a hero and 'not a bad guy'.

IA. He seems like (and I don't want to comment on things going on IRL) a policeman. He goes and does things the higher ups tell him to, and if the bosses think it was a satisfactory result, then he's a hero. Especially if the higher ups are people in power and in government. They would always frame each and every mission as a patriotic one. So Soldier Boy would consistently consider himself doing the things that need doing and "fighting" for his country. He doesn't seem to use his own ideas. Always the Soldier.

2 hours ago, ahrtee said:

It does make sense that if someone wanted to create an American hero during a war, it would be a supersoldier to help America win.  And the best way to get a supersoldier is to find someone who is already a very good soldier, with good skills (and good looks!) and supercharge him. 

I know, in the comics, the supes were supposed to be untrained, but in the show, it seems Vought went about creating the supes with a bit more foresight. What ise would a supersoldier be if he didn't understand combat and had no training?

[ahrtee]

15 minutes ago, MAK said:

I know, in the comics, the supes were supposed to be untrained, but in the show, it seems Vought went about creating the supes with a bit more foresight. What ise would a supersoldier be if he didn't understand combat and had no training?

I didn't read the comics, so I don't know the "real" story.  But it seems to me that the rest of Payback were pretty useless.  So maybe after the success of SB, they decided to try V on ordinary people.  Of course, that meant SB was the official leader, and (whether he was that way originally or the V made him that way) he certainly believed the hype that he was wonderful and the others nothing, so he treated them horribly and they resented it.  I'm going to assume that he was heading off the rails (in a HL kind of way) and so Vought decided to kill/deep six him, and his team was happy to go along, because they thought that meant they could take over the spotlight he was hogging.  Unfortunately for them, they really were useless as superheroes and were nothing without SB (which I assume would make them hate him more.)  

If Compound V supposedly makes you "more" of what you were to begin with, then I'd guess that pre-V SB was just a very good, very well-trained soldier but not really a leader.  Vought was probably counting on that so that they could control him, but it didn't work as well as they planned.  

I'd say that the next gen of supes were chosen/created specifically to be what Vought wanted, but they still went off the rails to a greater or lesser extent.

[Ohiopirate02]

7 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

  But yeah, he seems like a pretty badass fighter and marksman - where did those skills come from? 

Is he a badass marksman though?  Because all the reading I have done about the events of May 4, 1970 say the side Soldier Boy would have been on was a giant clusterfuck and none of the four who died that day could ever been considered ringleaders. 

[gonzosgirrl]

7 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Is he a badass marksman though?  Because all the reading I have done about the events of May 4, 1970 say the side Soldier Boy would have been on was a giant clusterfuck and none of the four who died that day could ever been considered ringleaders. 

He was likely not the only one there though. The Legend also mentioned 'rumors' of Dealy Plaza. But I was talking about him taking out the 'priest' and then the 'nun'.

[gonzosgirrl]

It was pretty satisfying to see MM punch Todd in the face. I mean, the whole 'somebody's gotta be' line is a trope as old as time, but if it gets a smarmy tool like Todd put on his ass, then I'll allow it.

[Aithne]

1 hour ago, Bruinsfan said:

The Kimiko & Frenchie and Kimiko & Annie scenes were just wonderful. I really like that Annie has genuinely befriended all of the team apart from Butcher, and is no longer "Huey's supe girlfriend that maybe can be useful to us." Both the ladies overcoming their fears to do what they have to in order to protect people were powerful story elements, and I really like how Frenchie's reactions and acceptance of being the weaker half of a couple(?) contrast with Hughie's. 

I don't usually like the straight-up good guys, but Annie's an exception. She's caring, capable, and bold, and it's an impressive combination. 

And I agree re: Frenchie's dynamic with Kimiko. He seems to have zero hangups about her superior strength - he cares about her emotional well-being, and it doesn't matter whether she's stronger (with V) or weaker (without it) than he is. It doesn't impact his perceptions of himself or of her, either way.