All Episodes Talk: Save the drama for your mama ... and sisters.

[Meredith Quill]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

[SistaLadybug]

I felt my blood pressure rising watching this episode.  I can't imagine what it must be like to be one of the sisters.  As an impartial viewer, I was beyond frustrated with just about all of them.  None of them want to say, "I am the reason why [this particular thing] went awry." 

 

I felt Tamar's pain.  I think she's spoiled and ridiculous and I don't usually like her very much, but I believe her about what happened in that restaurant.  We've seen Traci buck up on her several times.  While Traci may never have hit Tamar before, Tamar is right - someone always stood in the way.  How is Tamar to know that one of these days there might not be anyone to stand in the way or that Traci might not push past the person and attack her anyway?  Traci needed to accept responsibility for what she did and apologize for Tamar for her part in that mess.

 

That said, Tamar is petulant.  She's a brat.  She is determined to be on the outside.  She says her sisters are in a clique of which she's not a part but she is fanning the flames of that.  She runs away when things get too hot.  She flails and head whips and bucks and duck lips and acts a complete fool.  When her sisters said they missed her, there were eye rolls and pouts and "Oh, really?!"  Girl.  You're damn near 40 years old. 

 

It's later for all this nonsense.  I want to smack all their faces and tell them to grow up.

[red12]

Is there something about the music industry that attracts dysfunctional, immature people who lack the ability to function within the confines if reality? Between the Braxtons, SWV and Mary, Mary, I don't know who's craziest. But they are all failing at life.

Also, I do believe Tamar's version of events. I think her sisters are aware and concerned that they are looking like bigger morons every week so, they are stonewalling her and pushing the idea that she is the problem. Of course Tamar's reversion to the tantrum throwing baby sister role isn't helping things, but I do think she is being gaslighted.

The jealousy that Tamar is winning in terms of career accomplishments and material gain while building part of her brand on pointing out and commenting on her sisters' flaws is going unspoken as well because none of these people will cop to there negative emotions ever.

[SistaLadybug]

The jealousy that Tamar is winning in terms of career accomplishments and material gain while building part of her brand on pointing out and commenting on her sisters' flaws is going unspoken as well because none of these people will cop to there negative emotions ever.

This is a good point and if Tamar had an ounce of self-knowledge, she'd see this and admit to it when Dr. Sherry asked what role they all played in getting the relationships in the awful state they're in.  Tamar is charismatic and talented but she's made her way partly by contrasting herself to her sisters and exposing their flaws to the world. 

[Happytobehere]

I too agree that Tamar's account of the incident with Traci is the one I believe. Traci and Tamar's issues have dated bak to childhood and this was even stated in the first season when one of the sisters basically said someone always had to be there to referee because Traci and Tamar's personalities never jibed.

Towonda on the other hand is purely hateful, spiteful and jealous. I was initially team anyone else but Tamar until I think it was half way through season two when it became clear that one of the reasons that Towonda wanted to be close to Toni, aside from the big sister and star factor, was because she wanted to drive a wedge between Toni and Tamar's forever closeness, which was also referenced in season one. I don't think there is any coincidence that during this time, Toni and Tamar experienced a level of estrangement that clearly pained them both. Towonda instigated and manipulated this as she sat back and enjoyed the mayhem she caused through subversion. Just as was the case with Traci, her animus towards Tamar goes back to childhood and seems directly related to her role as not just the baby, but Toni's baby and all the perks that entitled her to once Toni became famous. On a side note, I always laugh as I see Towonda listed as the "Responsible One," isn't she the one who lives off her family members, has been arrested more than once for fraud and lack of bill payments, and whose husband is a bum? How is this considered responsible?

On a side note, I am not surprised that she took Gabe back. It has always been clear to me that she loves Gabe and wants to be with him regardless of their issues and I have no real problem with that, but if this is her choice, she needs to stop crying on everybodies' shoulders about Gabe because she can't handle her. Sisters opinions of him. She too was wrong for not telling Tamar they were back together, not because Tamar has any say in her relationship, but because she was planning on bringing him to Tamar's birthday party. Knowing how Tamar feels about Gabe, Trina was wrong to just spring Gabe on Tamar on what was supposed to her day and her celebration was wrong.

[RedKoolAide]

Red12, I agree about the gaslighting of Tamar. Towanda and Traci are the main culprits. Toni, too, to an extent. Jealousy is the main cause, I believe. Tamar does herself no favors because she is a complete fool. Loud, spoiled, ignant(yes, ignant), and so extreme in her reactions. They all behave like they're still kids at home fighting over the telephone.

[SistaLadybug]

Red12, I agree about the gaslighting of Tamar. Towanda and Traci are the main culprits. Toni, too, to an extent. Jealousy is the main cause, I believe. Tamar does herself no favors because she is a complete fool. Loud, spoiled, ignant(yes, ignant), and so extreme in her reactions. They all behave like they're still kids at home fighting over the telephone.

And there's my issue with Tamar.  (Well, one of them.)  That girl has no self-awareness.  Her sisters can be cruel to her, definitely, but Tamar makes herself such a pain in the ass that it's hard to muster any sympathy for her.

[Caramella2ggs]

Red12, I agree about the gaslighting of Tamar. Towanda and Traci are the main culprits. Toni, too, to an extent. Jealousy is the main cause, I believe. Tamar does herself no favors because she is a complete fool. Loud, spoiled, ignant(yes, ignant), and so extreme in her reactions. They all behave like they're still kids at home fighting over the telephone.

 

ITA with this. How did they all get to 40 and still are not able to own their actions. Not a one of them is willing to say ‘I did it - I’m sorry’

 

One round of that from everyone is all it would take to move on.  All this arguing is making the show way too depressing. I was exhausted after an hour. I don’t know how they do it. After two years of the same bickering, I’d be ready to say bye to everyone – family or not.

[jhlipton]

This is a good point and if Tamar had an ounce of self-knowledge, she'd see this and admit to it when Dr. Sherry asked what role they all played in getting the relationships in the awful state they're in.  Tamar is charismatic and talented but she's made her way partly by contrasting herself to her sisters and exposing their flaws to the world. 

 

Dr Sherry is the worst "therapist" EVHA! At no point did she have the sisters engage in "active listening" -- one person speaks (while everfyone else STFU) then another says what she heard.  Get them to acknowledge each others' feelings, first and foremost, or ain't nothing going to happen.  And indeed -- "What did you learn fom this?"  "A lot" -- well, all right then!

 

The sisters should haqve been driven to the top of the mountain and the cars taken away.  Try walking away from that, Tamar.  Oh, and that standing-on-the-pole thing: one sister wass holding the rope -- the other two were lollygagging behind her.  If they rally had been holding her up, one sister would have fallen on her face and the one on the pole would have gone splat.

 

Of course, they really can't sit down and talk like adults.  Without the drama, there'd be no show and then what would they do????

[JBC344]

They really are a complete mess.  I have to say when it comes to Tamar she really does throw a tantrum and does run at the first sign of real conflict.  I can understand that she feels she is ganged up on but she really does need to suck it up and stay.

 

With that said I have to say that I really felt for Tamar at least at the beginning of the retreat when she was making the point of Tracy always lunging at her when they get into a fight.  What was hilarious and also sad was the fact that no one wanted to back Tamar up when she was listing examples of Traci coming after her. Then the show proceeded to show all the flashbacks of Traci going after her.  Hell, even Dr. Sherri (who is the worst therapist) was there when Traci bucked on Tamar during the therapy session and even she didn't try to validate Tamar at least to calm her down.  This was the one time that I didn't mind Tamar leaving because the sisters were blatantly ignoring the truth and refused to give her the satisfaction of being right.

[cafe au lait]

 

 

I felt Tamar's pain.  I think she's spoiled and ridiculous and I don't usually like her very much, but I believe her about what happened in that restaurant.  We've seen Traci buck up on her several times.  While Traci may never have hit Tamar before, Tamar is right - someone always stood in the way.  How is Tamar to know that one of these days there might not be anyone to stand in the way or that Traci might not push past the person and attack her anyway?  Traci needed to accept responsibility for what she did and apologize for Tamar for her part in that mess.

 

 

With that said I have to say that I really felt for Tamar at least at the beginning of the retreat when she was making the point of Tracy always lunging at her when they get into a fight.  What was hilarious and also sad was the fact that no one wanted to back Tamar up when she was listing examples of Traci coming after her. Then the show proceeded to show all the flashbacks of Traci going after her.  Hell, even Dr. Sherri (who is the worst therapist) was there when Traci bucked on Tamar during the therapy session and even she didn't try to validate Tamar at least to calm her down.  This was the one time that I didn't mind Tamar leaving because the sisters were blatantly ignoring the truth and refused to give her the satisfaction of being right.

 

Are we supposed to believe that in 30 some odd years Tamar and Traci have never been alone together and had a confrontation. Somehow I doubt that. Traci uses a very in your face fashion of communicating. As does Tamar. She confronted Toni at the Therapy session in a very in your face fashion. Toni explained that none of them had ever hit each other and that it was her belief that none of them ever would. Which explains why no one supported her claims about Traci. So I think that while they recognize that they've had to get between each other to stop verbal altercations; they don't view it as any more than a verbal battle that needed to end.

 

We don't actually know what Traci said or did. Tamar and Traci gave differing accounts. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. The one part that I believe they both agreed upon; was that Tamar said to Traci "Go get your girl". Which was not an appropriate thing to say. It appears to have been said out of spite and jealousy. She initiated the confrontation with Traci and then she played the victim. Tamar is very good at that. I think that she learned to do that as a child. Perhaps, it was one of her ways of getting attention. Most anyone, who has an older sibling, probably did the same thing as child but most people grow out of it. The Braxton's, like many people who grow up in large family's all seem to be attention starved (except Toni) and like many people their adult sibling relationships mirror their childhood sibling relationships. Tamar seems to crave attention and control. Being the youngest she was either deprived of attention to the point that she will always be attention starved; or she was spoiled to point; that she has to always be the absolute center of attention. She was obviously bossed around by her older siblings and now she needs to be the boss. 

 

 

Towonda on the other hand is purely hateful, spiteful and jealous. I was initially team anyone else but Tamar until I think it was half way through season two when it became clear that one of the reasons that Towonda wanted to be close to Toni, aside from the big sister and star factor, was because she wanted to drive a wedge between Toni and Tamar's forever closeness, which was also referenced in season one. I don't think there is any coincidence that during this time, Toni and Tamar experienced a level of estrangement that clearly pained them both. Towonda instigated and manipulated this as she sat back and enjoyed the mayhem she caused through subversion. Just as was the case with Traci, her animus towards Tamar goes back to childhood and seems directly related to her role as not just the baby, but Toni's baby and all the perks that entitled her to once Toni became famous. On a side note, I always laugh as I see Towonda listed as the "Responsible One," isn't she the one who lives off her family members, has been arrested more than once for fraud and lack of bill payments, and whose husband is a bum? How is this considered responsible?

 

 

Towanda has the same issues with Tamar that we've seen Toni, Trina. Traci, Evelyn have and that we've seen Vince have with her. Their main bone of contention with Tamar is her mouth. Under the guise of being the great truth teller or keeping it real; she makes inflammatory comments to and about her family. Not only does she make inflammatory comments but she does it in the most obnoxious way. She had no boundaries and no filter.  Which repeatedly seems to piss people off. Her comment to Traci, "go get your girl" is one example. After making inappropriate comments she plays the victim and refuses to be held accountable for her actions. When she does treat her family respectfully; she acts like she's dong them a favor. Again they all have the same issue with Tamar including Vince. Yet, no ones running around saying Vince is jealous of Tamar.

 

Towanda was obviously always close to not only Toni but to all of her siblings and her mom. She is the one person that they all trust and that they all confide in. She is the one that her mom relies on to handle her business affairs. Her identity seems to be wrapped up in being whatever they need for her to be. Which is why I assume that they refer to her as "the responsible one". Certainly, they would have a much better idea about who is the more responsible than any viewer would. There is also only 5 years difference between Toni and Towanda; there is a 10 year age difference between Toni and Tamar. Also keep in mind that if I remember correctly, Toni said that while they had a tendency toward cliquishness; the clique members varied. They all seem to idolize and respect Toni the most; because she is the oldest. That is not unusual. Many people idolize their older siblings; even if they're not famous. Most families do have some level of sibling rivalry and petty jealousy. Again, that doesn't seem to be the main issue that they face with Tamar.

 

The jealousy that Tamar is winning in terms of career accomplishments and material gain while building part of her brand on pointing out and commenting on her sisters' flaws is going

 

 

 

The jealousy that Tamar is winning in terms of career accomplishments and material gain while building part

of her brand on pointing out and commenting on her sisters' flaws is going

 

At this point, career wise, minus Toni, they all about in the same boat. Their fame centers around reality television. None of them will be able to duplicate Toni's level of success and at this point Toni can't duplicate her former level of success. Tamar is headed toward 40; she is at an age where pop music careers die, not begin. She's still trying to launch hers. She is not going to be the next Beyonce and it's ridiculous to pretend that will ever happen. Not that she shouldn't try but realistically speaking, the odds are not in her favor. 

 

Other than reality TV, her brand consist of being a loud, obnoxious brat who makes offensive remarks and then plays the victim. The problem with making inflammatory or hurtful comments is that you cannot unsay them. The damage is done. Saying it on national TV makes it that much worse. Tamar's comments about Towanda's marriage, Trina's marriage or Traci cannot be unsaid. the damage is done. It will take time for them to heal those wounds. Tamar can dish it out but she can't take it. Nor is she willing to take responsibility for what she's dished out. Instead she shows up and expects everyone to kiss her ass. Despite all of that, Tamar is not a villain and neither is Towanda. There are no villains and heroes. They are a normal family dealing with regular issues.  As Dr. Sherry (who's talents certainly seem questionable) pointed out they all share in the dysfunction. 

Edited August 28, 2014 by cafe au lait

[JBC344]

The thing is though that Tamar never stated that Traci ever hit her in any of these confrontations.  What she was asking her sisters to be honest about is that Traci continuously gets in her face everytime that they have an argument.  Whether or not Traci or Tamar is right Tamar's point is that Traci is always trying to buck on her, which Traci has a history of doing.  The sisters especially Toni were trying to turn it around as say that Tamar is not fearful of Traci, which I don't believe she is, but that wasn't Tamar's point.  Toni, Trina, and Towanda could of easily validated Tamar's point and said that Traci shouldn't always jump in Tamar's face, but because all these women are children they can't discern between working things out and "taking sides".

 

Tamar's point is also to illustrate how her assistant was put in the position he was in, by Traci coming after her.  Now the fact that Tracy never had any intention of hitting Tamar, which I believe she didn't that doesn't dismiss her assistants normal reaction of jumping in between the two to diffuse the situation. 

 

Don't get me wrong Tamar is a total brat and acts like a child but I do believe the other sisters use her as a scapegoat.  For example, Towanda's surface issue may be her feud with Tamar, but her breaking the glasses and screaming "no one cares about me", that was about her issues with her whole family not just Tamar.

[cafe au lait]

The thing is though that Tamar never stated that Traci ever hit her in any of these confrontations.  What she was asking her sisters to be honest about is that Traci continuously gets in her face everytime that they have an argument.  Whether or not Traci or Tamar is right Tamar's point is that Traci is always trying to buck on her, which Traci has a history of doing.  The sisters especially Toni were trying to turn it around as say that Tamar is not fearful of Traci, which I don't believe she is, but that wasn't Tamar's point.  Toni, Trina, and Towanda could of easily validated Tamar's point and said that Traci shouldn't always jump in Tamar's face, but because all these women are children they can't discern between working things out and "taking sides".

Tamar's point is also to illustrate how her assistant was put in the position he was in, by Traci coming after her.  Now the fact that Tracy never had any intention of hitting Tamar, which I believe she didn't that doesn't dismiss her assistants normal reaction of jumping in between the two to diffuse the situation.

 

If Tamar really felt threatened by Traci; she would not provoke her. When Traci, went to check on Towanda. If she didn't want a confrontation with "big scary Traci"; she would have kept her mouth shut. She threw rocks; then like a 5 yr old, she ran and hid behind her assistant; while screaming Traci's being mean to me. Tamar wanted her sisters to participate in her manipulations and they wisely declined.

Don't get me wrong Tamar is a total brat and acts like a child but I do believe the other sisters use her as a scapegoat.  For example, Towanda's surface issue may be her feud with Tamar, but her breaking the glasses and screaming "no one cares about me", that was about her issues with her whole family not just Tamar.

 

Towanda stated in an interview that she was frustrated with her entire family in that moment. She felt that they weren't hearing her and she said that she had felt that way for a while. I think too much of Towanda's identity has been wrapped up in serving her family.

 

I don't see scapegoating. I see where Tamar's has had to face the repercussions of her actions. As I stated before, Tamar has faced the same kind of issues with not only each of her sisters but also with Vince and Evelyn. When you manage to have ongoing conflict with everyone in your life; it is you that's the problem not everyone else. 

Edited August 29, 2014 by cafe au lait

[Watermelon]

I can't with the sisters. The last time someone came to Tamar with a specific complaint was Traci and her bullshit anger with Tamar calling her husband a bum(after Towanda said he had a baby by some chick). Tamar apologized(which I totally wouldn't have).

 

I've been bored, I've rewatched essentially all episodes of the show. Towanda has been pushing this "Gotta change how Tamar talks to us, can't let her get away with things just cuz she's the baby" narrative essentially since season 2. That's all well and good but when Tamar asks specifically what she did, it's never specific.

 

That's bullshit. Tamar's mouth has always been her mouth. If her mouth has finally just become too much, that's fine. But say that. This weird "Tamar knows what she did but I won't tell yall what she did" way of going about filming is weird. It only serves to make Towanda and Traci look jealous and Trina look like a pushover.
 

[Happytobehere]

I can't with the sisters. The last time someone came to Tamar with a specific complaint was Traci and her bullshit anger with Tamar calling her husband a bum(after Towanda said he had a baby by some chick). Tamar apologized(which I totally wouldn't have).

I've been bored, I've rewatched essentially all episodes of the show. Towanda has been pushing this "Gotta change how Tamar talks to us, can't let her get away with things just cuz she's the baby" narrative essentially since season 2. That's all well and good but when Tamar asks specifically what she did, it's never specific.

That's bullshit. Tamar's mouth has always been her mouth. If her mouth has finally just become too much, that's fine. But say that. This weird "Tamar knows what she did but I won't tell yall what she did" way of going about filming is weird. It only serves to make Towanda and Traci look jealous and Trina look like a pushover.

This right here is my issue in a nutshell. Tamar's mouth is beyond ridiculous, but even according to the sisters, parents and Vince, her mouth has always been reckless. If you can't take it anymore, say so, but stop with the non-specific "Tamar Knows" comments. Clearly, if "Tamar Knew, " she wouldn't keep asking what she did to make you angry. I really can't remember an episode in the past two seasons where Tamar could get a straight answer about anything from anyone but Toni.

And speaking of Traci's anger toward Tamar regarding Kevin, let's not forget that it was ole homegirl Towonda who blew her business up on national television when she revealed that Kevin was cheating again and might have a child outside the marriage. Yet strangely, Traci doesn't ever seem to feel the need to get buck with Towonda, so once again, it is an excuse. I still think that Traci and Tamar's issues have been lifelong because they are too similar in terms of mouth, funky attitude, etc. the difference is that as the baby of the family, Tamar's nonsense has long been coddled and accepted, and Traci, in typical human form blames Tamar for being the embodiment of her issue instead of the people who are truly at fault -- the rest of the family.

I also liked the moment in this episode with Tamar and Evelyn when Evelyn let Tamar know that sometimes even if you love somebody and know what they are doing is wrong, you have to fall back, let them fall in their face and just be supportive because if they are not in a space to hear you, you will become the target if their wrath and pain.

Once again, Towonda cannot let go of her anger towards Tamar even when Tamar reached out to her with the parasailing. She talked about Tamar keeping her mouth shut, but at that moment, Towonda should have followed her own advice and kept her mouth shut.

Forgot to add, what is it with Traci and that Raggedy Anne hairdo she is rocking? She looks a straight fool. The fact that Tamar hasn't called her out on that ish proves that she can hold her tongue.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Happytobehere

[RedKoolAide]

Well, Tamar's wigs look terrible too, so she has no room to talk about Traci's hair. :)

Yes, Tamar has a loud, unfiltered mouth but I don't think the other sisters(mainly Towanda and Traci) would have a big problem with it if Tamar didn't have this much success. I hate to say that they're "jus jellus" but I think that's the main issue.

[trimthatfat]

And speaking of Traci's anger toward Tamar regarding Kevin, let's not forget that it was ole homegirl Towonda who blew her business up on national television when she revealed that Kevin was cheating again and might have a child outside the marriage. Yet strangely, Traci doesn't ever seem to feel the need to get buck with Towonda, so once again, it is an excuse.

 

 

Also, Toni pretty much called Traci fat a few seasons back and Traci didn't have anything to say about that, but let Tamar have said exactly what Toni did, and all would have broken loose. I've noticed that Toni gets away with a lot. She can leave a sister lunch, but Tamar can't. She can call Traci fat and be shallow as hell, but Tamar cannot comment on anything.

 

I liked Evelyn advice, too, but I have a feeling that if Tamar just let Traci be and didn't try to help when it came to Traci's album, Traci would complain that Tamar is unsupportive. I feel like Tamar is damned is does, damned if she doesn't with most of her sisters. They complain she throws certain things back in their faces (i.e. the shitty husbands), so I wish they'd just stop telling her shit. Problem solved. If Tamar suddenly stopped dealing with her sisters on a regular basis, I'm sure they'd find something else to claim she does to them.

 

Re: Tamar's assistant and Traci. I think Tamar's version of what happened is closer to the truth than Traci's. I absolutely believe that Traci had to be held back. Traci has an annoying habit of bucking up against people and has even suggested that her and Tamar take it to the streets to duke it out.  So, yes, I do think the assistant put his hands on Traci, but because he saw a situation escalating and didn't want his boss hurt.

 

Edited August 30, 2014 by trimthatfat

[Iguessnot]

It's all in the delivery. If I had to interact with a character like Tamar I would be driven to murder. It's not that I feel Tamar is always in the wrong with these issues, but her mouth and behavior makes it near impossible to discuss anything with her. If Tamar would take responsibility for her Mack Truck approach to arguments, maybe the sisters could get past step one. 

[trimthatfat]

It's all in the delivery. If I had to interact with a character like Tamar I would be driven to murder. It's not that I feel Tamar is always in the wrong with these issues, but her mouth and behavior makes it near impossible to discuss anything with her. If Tamar would take responsibility for her Mack Truck approach to arguments, maybe the sisters could get past step one. 

 

IMO, if a comment is rude, it's rude regardless of delivery. Towanda was being rude and messy when she brought up Traci's husband possibly having a child. Toni was being rude when she brought up Traci being fat. I don't even like Tamar like that, but I feel like she will never be able to win with her sisters. The resentment is too deep.

 

Tamar alone is not why they can't get past step one. I think they all have contributed to the dysfunction over the years.

[Iguessnot]

Making a rude comment doesn't mean that person can't be addressed. As for your example, Toni said that Traci needed to lose some pounds. She didn't roll her neck around and make a performance of her observation. I can't remember how Traci addressed her hurt feelings, and whether her questioning of Toni was shown, but I'm sure Toni wouldn't be screaming over her. Whether it's counseling sessions with Tamar & her sisters or Tamar and Vince, Tamar is always being loud and sassy to the point that her shtick dominates the matter at hand.

[trimthatfat]

I'll agree to disagree because time and time again on this show, I've seen Toni get away with doing things that from the outside looking in, come off messy.

[Iguessnot]

I can accept that but I think they are all messy. 

[tvallthetime]

This last episode was a return to the fun of season 1, well...after the fight. I'd forgotten what I liked about the show in the first place. I am not down for all this fighting and table smashing. And Towanda needs to have all the seats. I am just not here for her.

They were hilarious with the 'Bob Marley' joint. Toni especially; it's nice to see her let go and relax every once in a while. Also, the guy at her concert that she pulled onstage was a straight fool. I giggled through the last half hour.

More this; less fighting!

Edited August 31, 2014 by tvallthetime

[trimthatfat]

They were hilarious with the 'Bob Marley' joint. Toni especially; it's nice to see her let go and relax every once in a while. Also, the guy at her concert that she pulled onstage was a straight fool. I giggled through the last half hour.

Isn't it odd that the only thing that could bring them together was some good ole weed? Not surprised that Traci was the one who managed to find some for the sisters to try. LOL! I loved how they got nervous about getting caught by Mama Braxton.

[WimminWinning]

I can't with the sisters. The last time someone came to Tamar with a specific complaint was Traci and her bullshit anger with Tamar calling her husband a bum(after Towanda said he had a baby by some chick). Tamar apologized(which I totally wouldn't have).

 

I've been bored, I've rewatched essentially all episodes of the show. Towanda has been pushing this "Gotta change how Tamar talks to us, can't let her get away with things just cuz she's the baby" narrative essentially since season 2. That's all well and good but when Tamar asks specifically what she did, it's never specific.

 

That's bullshit. Tamar's mouth has always been her mouth. If her mouth has finally just become too much, that's fine. But say that. This weird "Tamar knows what she did but I won't tell yall what she did" way of going about filming is weird. It only serves to make Towanda and Traci look jealous and Trina look like a pushover.

 

Agreed! Also, Tamar has rarely popped off at the mouth since season 1. She still has her personality (which is loud and full of sass), but she hasn't actually said anything mean or unsavory lately. And we know that she isn't doing it off-camera because she doesn't see her sisters off-camera since they won't return her calls.

What has she said that was so horrible that they can't speak to their sister? Nothing.

 

But I think the truth of why they hate Tamar has finally revealed itself if you read in between the lines of the last couple episodes. When the sisters went parasailing, I questioned why no one had an issue of Ricco and the makeup guy coming along during "sister bonding time" when the Braxton trio clique were sooo upset about Vince crashing "sister bonding time" the last time they were together. Then I put 2 and 2 together after Towanda made the comment to the counselor about being mad that Tamar was secretive about the spin-off. They weren't pissed because they wanted bonding time alone with Tamar. They wanted to get her alone without her management and probably confront her about the spin-off. Tamar and Vince have been together for 10 years, yet it was only after the spin-off that Towanda started those derogatory "velcro" comments about them traveling together (Towanda debuted "velcro" during the trip to Italy that Tamar missed to be on the Wendy Willliams Show). Towanda isn't looking for spouse-less sister time, she's been itching for confrontation with Tamar.

 

Tamar's been loud and obnoxious since childhood. What a coincidence that her personality became an issue to the point of you can't return her phone calls now that Tamar's career is popping off. I would say that it's jealousy, but I don't think it's that simple. Even if you hate Tamar, it can't be denied that Tamar is the breakout star of this reality show. She's the only one who consistently has storylines with her marriage, baby, album, radio spots, talk show, buying/selling/decorating houses, and her OTT personality. There's probably a little jealousy (okay, maybe a lot coming from Towanda!), but I think the recent elevated level of anger toward Tamar is because of the spin-off. They know that Tamar is critical to BFV success and her saying that she would do T&V and drop BFV would hurt Trina, Traci, and Towanda's pockets since none of them have another source of steady income. But their egos would never let them admit to their baby sister that they need her for their livelihoods, so it comes out as anger that she was "secretive" about the spin-off instead of admitting that they are scared that their loudmouthed, obnoxious baby sister has the power and could pull the plug on their most lucrative income stream if they don't treat her better. They spent 3 seasons blaming her for everything wrong in their lives and they cliquishly stuck together even when they were all wrong (like them sticking together to blame Tamar for not recording the gospel album when Toni was the real holdout, or them all going in on the doo-w**-pop comment when Tamar clearly was not dismissing the entire profession of background singing), but now the baby sister has power and control and they hate it.   

 

I can accept that but I think they are all messy. 

I agree, they are all messy! That seems to be their family dynamic. Which is why I can't understand the reasoning behind them only calling out Tamar. I think the differential treatment has less to do with Tamar's delivery and more to do with Toni's status as the family breadwinner and Tamar's status as the baby sister. They can't call out Toni, but usually in families that I know of, older siblings feel perfectly comfortable dumping on the youngest sibling.

 

This last episode was a return to the fun of season 1, well...after the fight. I'd forgotten what I liked about the show in the first place. I am not down for all this fighting and table smashing. And Towanda needs to have all the seats. I am just not here for her.

They were hilarious with the 'Bob Marley' joint. Toni especially; it's nice to see her let go and relax every once in a while. Also, the guy at her concert that she pulled onstage was a straight fool. I giggled through the last half hour.

More this; less fighting!

I'm not bothered by fighting. Shit happens and you have to get it out. What becomes tiresome is the talking in circles. How many of these "sister talks" have we had where no one really said shit? No more of these group talks. There needs to be one-on-one conversations. When Tamar did her one-on-one with Traci a while back, that was the only time I saw something actually get resolved. Also, Evelyn, daddy, and that shitty therapist all need to go away. They only aggravate the issue by discouraging the sisters from talking specifics about their conflicts and instead wanting them to just "get along" and "have fun together". Yes, Evelyn, stirring shit does make it stink more, but just leaving it in the middle of your livingroom is unsanitary and bad for your health.  

[tvallthetime]

I agree. It's not that the fighting itsef bothers me, it's that it's unproductive. Tamar walks away, they talk over each other, Towanda gets really in her feelings, Traci gets agressive. It's just tiring to watch the same fight repeatedly.

[morediva]

Frankly, I'm not even sure why they're mad Tamar was secretive about the spinoff. I would think until the contract is signed everyone involved would keep it close to the vest. Besides she didn't need their permission to do a spinoff, so even if she told them it really wouldn't make a big difference. They act like she is required to sacrifice for them and their financial well-being the way that Toni did, which Toni seems to have resented them for. But Tamar, or more likely Vince, isn't going for that. She's going for hers.

[cafe au lait]

 

 

Agreed! Also, Tamar has rarely popped off at the mouth since season 1. She still has her personality (which is loud and full of sass), but she hasn't actually said anything mean or unsavory lately. And we know that she isn't doing it off-camera because she doesn't see her sisters off-camera since they won't return her calls.

What has she said that was so horrible that they can't speak to their sister? Nothing.

 

Tamar has the right to behave like a loud obnoxious ignorant jackass 24 hours a day, 7 days a week,  365 days a year. However, her sisters and her other family members have the right to not entertain her behavior. She has the right to say whatever she wants to say. However, very few adults, outside of paid employees, are going to tolerate being repeatedly disrespected by her "personality".   Toni, Traci, Trina, Towanda, Evelyn and Vince have all been disrespected by her commentary. Hurt feelings are usually expressed in the form of anger. They all get angry with Tamar because her disrespect hurts their feelings. Tamar gets angry because being ostracized by her sisters hurts her feelings. Again, her sisters are under no obligation to tolerate her overbearing obnoxious "personality" and the disrespect that comes with it; regardless of how many years she's spent behaving like a jackass. Tamar is not a victim. She offends everyone around her and yet she perpetually claims to be the victim.  Short of being mentally r*******. No one is that clueless. Tamar needs to learn that:

 

1. Being a loudmouthed jack ass will win you more enemies than friends.

2. No one wants to be around someone who always has something negative to say.

3. How you say it is often as important as what you've said.

4. In order to receive respect you must give respect.

5. How to take responsibility for her actions and her loud mouthed commentary.

6. How to admit when she is wrong and apologize (I don't know what I did but I'm sorry is not an apology; it's an insult). 

7. At almost 40, behaving like a clueless 13 yr old is not cute.

 

Frankly, I'm not even sure why they're mad Tamar was secretive about the spinoff. I would think until the contract is signed everyone involved would keep it close to the vest. Besides she didn't need their permission to do a spinoff, so even if she told them it really wouldn't make a big difference. They act like she is required to sacrifice for them and their financial well-being the way that Toni did, which Toni seems to have resented them for. But Tamar, or more likely Vince, isn't going for that. She's going for hers.

 

No she's not obligated to tell them anything. However, they all went into business together; when they signed owned to do BFV. Being that they are all essentially business partners, it probably would have been appropriate to mention it. As, sisters being that they normally share every major thing going on in their lives with each other; why would this be different. This I think comes down to a matter of respect. Out of respect for her sisters and their business arrangement; she should have told them. Just like with any of her thoughtless commentary she showed a complete lack of respect for her sisters and a complete disregard for anyone's feeling but hers. The attitude that promotes the disrespect and enables her to completely disregard the feelings of others is what her family would like to see change.  

 

Yes, Toni has always unselfishly shared with her family and made a place for her sisters. Without Toni's generosity, there would be no show. Toni didn't want to do a reality show but she did it for her family. Were it not for Toni's generosity, neither show would exist. Tamar should keep that in mind. Again though Tamar is not obligated to do anything that she doesn't want to do. She has every right to "go for hers" in whatever manner that she sees fit. However, she must be prepared to face and deal with the repercussions of her actions. 

 

In terms of their individual success, none of their individual projects have been as successful as Braxton Family Values.Therefore, working together has benefited them all.  As I mentioned before, none of them will be able to match the level of success that Toni achieved in the music business. At almost 40, Tamar is not going to be the next Beyonce.

Edited September 1, 2014 by cafe au lait

[trimthatfat]

Frankly, I'm not even sure why they're mad Tamar was secretive about the spinoff. I would think until the contract is signed everyone involved would keep it close to the vest. Besides she didn't need their permission to do a spinoff, so even if she told them it really wouldn't make a big difference. They act like she is required to sacrifice for them and their financial well-being the way that Toni did, which Toni seems to have resented them for. But Tamar, or more likely Vince, isn't going for that. She's going for hers.

 

I don't get it either. The show hadn't even been announced to the general public yet, so I am guessing contracts were being ironed out. It's not like the spin-off meant Tamar was no longer on BFV. This was a deal that involved her husband and she dealt with it privately.

 

Honestly, if it wasn't the spin-off thing, it was going to be something else. That's why I agree with Mama Braxton that maybe they just need to leave each other be...maybe take time away from one another and then regroup. Even though Trina claimed on a talk show recently that the show has been good for them, I strongly disagree. I think that spending all of this time together filming has done far more harm than good.

[Watermelon]

She offends everyone around her and yet she perpetually claims to be the victim.  Short of being mentally r*******. No one is that clueless. Tamar needs to learn that:

 

6. How to admit when she is wrong and apologize (I don't know what I did but I'm sorry is not an apology; it's an insult). 

 

 

 

 

In terms of their individual success, none of their individual projects have been as successful as Braxton Family Values.Therefore, working together has benefited them all.  As I mentioned before, none of them will be able to match the level of success that Toni achieved in the music business. At almost 40, Tamar is not going to be the next Beyonce.

I had to cut for brevity, but number 6 stood out to me.  Tamar's apology IS an apology when she's said for months I DO NOT KNOW WHY MY SISTERS ARE MAD AT ME. Toni tried her damndest last season to make Tamar apologize to the other sisters without hearing her when she said she doesn't know what she did. At what point does the onus switch to Traci, Trina, and Towanda to be a goddamn adult and say, "I am mad at you because {insert reasoning here}"?  

 

When she is confronted directly in one on one fashion she can and has given a real apology. But you can't be fake mad and shocked you get an incomplete apology.

[cafe au lait]

I had to cut for brevity, but number 6 stood out to me.  Tamar's apology IS an apology when she's said for months I DO NOT KNOW WHY MY SISTERS ARE MAD AT ME. Toni tried her damndest last season to make Tamar apologize to the other sisters without hearing her when she said she doesn't know what she did. At what point does the onus switch to Traci, Trina, and Towanda to be a goddamn adult and say, "I am mad at you because {insert reasoning here}"?  

 

When she is confronted directly in one on one fashion she can and has given a real apology. But you can't be fake mad and shocked you get an incomplete apology.

 

As I mentioned before; the attitude that promotes the disrespect and enables her to completely disregard the feelings of others is what her family would like to see change. When they attempt to address their feelings. Tamar:

 

1. Throws an adolescent style tantrum 

2. States that she's done nothing wrong.

3. Complains that she's always unfairly singled out. 

4. Absolves herself of  any responsibility

5. Leaves the building

 

Tamar does not:

 

1. Listen

2. Acknowledge the feelings of others

3. Empathize

4. Take responsibility for her words and her actions. 

 

Which for her sisters translates into more of the same old attitude. It's like pouring salt on a wound. Like most families, they all carry around a lot of emotional family baggage. If they don't talk through it; it will remain unpacked and the resentment will continue. They all need to unpack the baggage that causes the misunderstandings and hurt feelings. Tamar needs to really hear, listen and empathize with her sisters. They in turn need to really hear, listen and empathize with her. Their feelings are all equally valid. Showing up and refusing to listen and accept responsibility is not the answer for any of them. Having said all of that I commend them for being brave enough to put their family drama on national TV. I don't think that their family is any more "messy" than most. I think they're probably pretty average. 

Edited September 2, 2014 by cafe au lait

[WimminWinning]

As I mentioned before; the attitude that promotes the disrespect and enables her to completely disregard the feelings of others is what her family would like to see change. When they attempt to address their feelings. Tamar:

 

1. Throws an adolescent style tantrum 

2. States that she's done nothing wrong.

3. Complains that she's always unfairly singled out. 

4. Absolves herself of  any responsibility

5. Leaves the building

 

Tamar does not:

 

1. Listen

2. Acknowledge the feelings of others

3. Empathize

4. Take responsibility for her words and her actions. 

 

Netflix uploads episodes of BFV, so I've rewatched most of the seasons and I will have to disagree with your list of things that Tamar does not do. In fact, Tamar is the only one who has acknowledged others feelings and taken responsibility for her words with sincere apologies. In season 3, Tamar launched an all-out apology tour and had one-on-one conversations with nearly all of them and apologized for various things (most of them I disagreed with her needing to apologize, such as the Kevin Jr. thing). 

 

Tamar has done far too many sincere apologies in seasons 2 and 3 to be accused of never apologizing. I just don't see the truth in that statement. On the occasions that she gives those "I'm sorry if I offended you" apologies, it's because the sisters were vague about what they were pissed about. That happened in Tamar's last apology to Towanda. They had a one-on-one and Towanda wouldn't say exactly what she was upset about, so Tamar expressed how she missed her sisters and how she was sorry for whatever she had done. She can't do any better than that if they don't give her something concrete to apologize for.

 

In fact, I have yet to hear a single apology come from Trina, Traci, or Towanda - and we all know about Ms. "I'm never going to apologize comma, I'm never going to apologize semicolon, I'm never going to apologize period!" And the sisters have plenty to apologize to Tamar for:

 

1. Traci bucking on Tamar - multiple times
2. The cliquish sisters getting convenient amnesia when Tamar is looking for support on Traci's bucking
3. Everyone blaming Tamar for the gospel album because they were afraid to confront Toni
4. No one calling/texting/Skyping/FaceTiming/anything-ing Tamar when Love & War hit
5. No one returning Tamar's calls, but want to criticize her for not faking happy, fun family time on camera
6. Tamar shows up for almost everything to support her sisters, but only Trina usually shows up to support her.
7. All but Trina storms out when confronted.Traci stormed out on the Dr. Sherry session when Toni called her fat andToni has stormed out on 2 of Dr. Sherry's sessions. But only Tamar gets called out on it.
8. Towanda and Traci expressing happiness in their THs about Tamar not winning a Grammy
9. Towanda going in on Tamar's weight and her heartfelt Soul Train award speech.
10. The sisters talking shit about how bad of a mother Tamar would be
11. Toni going in on Tamar about her problems with Vince being Toni's manager (back when Vince was her manager)
12. Everyone purposefully misconstruing the "doo w** pop" comment
13. Towanda's comment at Tamar's recent birthday party when it was supposed to be Tamar's night
14. Towanda getting in the middle of Tamar and Toni's relationship
15. Traci going after Tamar for making a harmless comment about not tolerating Kevin's infidelity when it was Towanda who brought it up on camera
16. Toni arranges the Trina intervention in season 1, but Trina goes after Tamar in the session with Dr. Sherry
17. They all comment on each other's weight and husbands, but only Tamar gets flack for it

 

This list is just what I can think of off the top of my head. My point in this list is not to create some "poor Tamar" argument. I'm just saying that these sisters are equally to blame for the breakdown in their relationships. Actually, no, my point is that Tamar is the least to blame because she's the only one who has changed her behavior (she doesn't pop off at the mouth anymore and she's calmed down quite a bit) and she's the only one who extends olive branches, apologizes, and tries to mend relationships by calling. Everyone says that Tamar has mouth and she should apologize for what she says, but they have all gone in on Tamar as well and none of them think they need to apologize to her. Toni and Towanda in particular are really slick with commenting on their sisters' weight, dance ability, husbands, financial situations, etc. Toni and Towanda never apologized to Traci for the comments about her weight and Kevin's infidelity - and Traci never asked for an apology from them, but Tamar says the same thing and needs to apologize?

 

I'm really rooting for Tamar to step away from BFV for a season so these sisters can find someone else to scapegoat for their problems (or heaven forbid actually deal with their own problems!). Why is Tamar the scapegoat when the album fell through even though it was Toni who wouldn't record? Why is Tamar the scapegoat for their tribute performance to Toni falling through even though it was only Tamar who wanted to rehearse? Why is Tamar the scapegoat for Trina's anger about the drinking intervention even though it was Toni who arranged it? She is always the fall girl. They won't look at themselves and their own behaviors/attitudes/failures until their scapegoat goes away. 

Edited September 2, 2014 by WimminWinning

[Watermelon]

I couldn't agree more!  All the girls say all sorts of off the wall things, but because she's Tamar, it's somehow unforgivable. Toni's not loud but she's JUUUUUST as shady as Tamar. Towanda is quite happy for Tamar's failures(Grammys) and to be such an "actress" couldn't contain her glee.

 

The one thing I truly don't understand is, How did Traci manage to get away without having an intervention.  She  bucked on Tamar, but more importantly was UBER rude to both her parents on separate occasions.  How did they let that slip through the cracks?

[Watermelon]

Soooo....What's with Traci's random blonde haired moment?

 

Also, if Toni has always known she couldn't do a group album unless it was under Motown, why hadn't she told them that? See that's the bullshit Toni's allowed to get away with and had it been ANYBODY else, off principle, the other sisters would have been pissed.  Now, they aren't even in a position to shop around. It's Motown or nothing at all.

[JBC344]

I couldn't agree more.  I love Toni but she always gets a pass from the sisters because she is the "star" and or the "oldest".  She can be just as shady and messy as the rest of them.

[WimminWinning]

Gabe was shady as hell with that comment about Trina not using his last name "unless it's on a bill". I still haven't figured out if Gabe is just cheap and thinks about money all the time or if Trina looks at Gabe like a piggy bank and that makes him talk about money all the time.

 

This unsteady truce that the sisters have now - well, more like a ceasefire - is not going to last long because the foundation of this recent peace is not resolution of problems, it's just faking nice and avoiding the elephant in the room.

 

I am really proud of Tamar for not taking the bait when the sisters tried to goad her into an argument. At lunch in the Bahamas, all the sisters tried to tell Tamar that she's frustrated and tried to goad her into expressing this supposed frustration. Kudos to Tamar for resisting this obvious attempt from the sisters for Tamar to start a conflict. That shows growth because Tamar did have a valid concern that she brought up last episode about finding a producer first instead of writing first, but she held her tongue. I'm proud of Tamar for keeping it together.

 

But if you watch Towanda's face during the rest of the lunch after Tamar didn't take the bait - Towanda was pissed! The only time during that lunch where I saw Towanda come to life and smile/smirk is when the sisters were trying to goad Tamar into being "frustrated". Tamar tried to lighten the mood and include Towanda in the conversation by joking about how Towanda doesn't profess her love for Andre dramatically like Trina does for Gabe and Towanda still sat there with stank face. I swear, Towanda is most unhappy when everybody else is getting along. Just like parasailing. Anytime Tamar is IN the sister clique instead of treated like an outsider, Towanda is pissed.

 

I'm also proud of Tamar during the vagina tightening talk. She could have gotten loud and angry at Toni's revelation that she can only record with Motown, but she didn't. She talked calmly and left pleasantly when nothing more could be said.

 

Speaking of the Motown situation - I'm pretty sure Toni is lying. She wants to record with a label instead of going independent and methinks that she lied about the nature of her Motown contract to get her way in that discussion. I've never heard of an artist not being able to record outside their contract. Now, it may be true that she can't record as the act "Toni Braxton", but she could record as "The Braxtons" or "The Braxton Sisters" or "B5" or whatever. Record labels don't own the individual and all of their artistry - they own the act - which is why Prince changed his name to a symbol to record outside his Warner contract and why Jackson 5 changed their name to The Jacksons to record outside their Motown contract. It can be done.

[Happytobehere]

I bet if you looked up the definition of Stink Face in the dictionary, you would find a picture of Towanda. How sad that she has never stated she loves Andre in her sisters' presence, says a lot a out her and her relationship.

So Tracie's only marriage deal breaker is physical abuse? Kevin is free to cheat as often as he chooses. The denial of cheating within the last six months was so fake. There is little doubt in my mind that Kevin continued and continues go cheat.

I thought Gabe had a valid point about Trina only using his name when. Money is involved. If you go by the name Braxton for all other things, why not for that.

This gospel cd is never going to happen.

[trimthatfat]

Gabe was shady as hell with that comment about Trina not using his last name "unless it's on a bill". I still haven't figured out if Gabe is just cheap and thinks about money all the time or if Trina looks at Gabe like a piggy bank and that makes him talk about money all the time.

 

I think she uses him as a piggy bank. He helped fund her solo project (including paying for studio time and her band), he invested in her Bar Chicks company, and he was supposed to help her financially with that boutique she wanted to open. Nevermind that he took her kids as his own and provided for them financially, too. I don't blame him if he's being cheap with his money. I doubt Trina (heh, Gabe) even broke even with Trina's solo career.

 

I don't know if Toni is lying about her exclusivity deal with Motown, but I do find her claims suspect. If she knew that she could only release music through Motown, it really isn't as easy as signing a silly pre-contract with her sisters to record an album. Now, the sisters have to get a deal with Motown for the album to be released? I'm sure they are more likely now to get a deal with Motown due to their fame and the fact that Toni and Tamar's albums have sold relatively well in the past year, but still.

[WimminWinning]

I think she uses him as a piggy bank. He helped fund her solo project (including paying for studio time and her band), he invested in her Bar Chicks company, and he was supposed to help her financially with that boutique she wanted to open. Nevermind that he took her kids as his own and provided for them financially, too. I don't blame him if he's being cheap with his money. I doubt Trina (heh, Gabe) even broke even with Trina's solo career.

 

I don't want to think that of Trina because she's my favorite Braxton sister, but you may be right. It's not just that Gabe invests in Trina's career. I would expect that level of partnership in a marriage. It's how she pushes him away, but will allow him to come around when she needs his money. Or maybe Gabe is using his money to manipulate his way back into Trina's life? I haven't figured it out just yet, but there's something odd going on with how money is a factor in how this couple relates to one another. This dynamic is really strange and hard to articulate.

[trimthatfat]

I don't want to think that of Trina because she's my favorite Braxton sister, but you may be right. It's not just that Gabe invests in Trina's career. I would expect that level of partnership in a marriage. It's how she pushes him away, but will allow him to come around when she needs his money. Or maybe Gabe is using his money to manipulate his way back into Trina's life? I haven't figured it out just yet, but there's something odd going on with how money is a factor in how this couple relates to one another. This dynamic is really strange and hard to articulate.

 

Not to say she doesn't love Gabe (I believe she does), but the fact that he invests, without hesitation, in her dreams/businesses says a lot. Even when they were not together, he was helping with Bar Chicks. A lot of partners would not be okay with investing in their spouse that easily without a sound business plan. I don't think Gabe is using his money to get back into Trina's life. If he is, Trina makes it very easy for him by turning to him to be an investor so often.

[jhlipton]

The Braxton's, like many people who grow up in large family's all seem to be attention starved (except Toni)

Toni gets her attention from the audience. Applause and cheers serve as major validators for someone seeking validation.

 

Tamar does not:

 

1. Listen

2. Acknowledge the feelings of others

3. Empathize

4. Take responsibility for her words and her actions.

I think you can say that about all of the Braxtons.

[Ceruleana]

This unsteady truce that the sisters have now - well, more like a ceasefire - is not going to last long because the foundation of this recent peace is not resolution of problems, it's just faking nice and avoiding the elephant in the room.

 

Speaking of the Motown situation - I'm pretty sure Toni is lying. She wants to record with a label instead of going independent and methinks that she lied about the nature of her Motown contract to get her way in that discussion. I've never heard of an artist not being able to record outside their contract. Now, it may be true that she can't record as the act "Toni Braxton", but she could record as "The Braxtons" or "The Braxton Sisters" or "B5" or whatever. Record labels don't own the individual and all of their artistry - they own the act - which is why Prince changed his name to a symbol to record outside his Warner contract and why Jackson 5 changed their name to The Jacksons to record outside their Motown contract. It can be done.

 

To the 1st paragraph--I'm not sure if I mind the ceasefire.  If they can get some work done, then I'm all for it.  I once had a major fight with my sister while helping her plan our family reunion, and it sucked because we really didn't have time to stomp away and sulk.  So we literally said to each other, "Bitch, I'll f*ck you up AFTER this weekend is through because we have so much setting up to do."  Turns out, we got so busy setting up our banquet, organizing welcome tables, cooking food, that we wound up laughing and forgetting why we were fighting in the first place.  Of course, our fight was nothing like the long-standing resentment and overall inconsiderateness that the Braxton sisters have been struggling with, but maybe pouring their hearts into the project and having a single-minded focus can help mend some fences.  It doesn't help that Tamar is constantly crowing about girl group drama--it's almost like she wants to keep it going, IMO.  I don't fault her for that because a lot of people are like that--drama makes them feel alive.

 

To the 2nd paragraph--I definitely think Toni was lying about her contract, too.  I saw Tamar's epic side eye from her corner spot, so I'm pretty sure that Toni just wanted to win that argument and shut down the "going independent" talk.  ITA with Tamar and going independent: they have the social media platform, a nice fanbase, a superstar diva in the lineup, and finally, a hit reality show on their hands!  That's like, 50% of the work right there!  A few appearances and a small tour can net them quite a bit of money, and they wouldn't have to worry about paying some damn label back!  To hell with an advance and a percentage when I can put some $ upfront and net MOST of my money in the end.  Like Tamar said, you still have to get your ass up and work, so why not work for yourself!  I also agree with Tamar in that it's a new day and commissioning producers, etc. will not have to be as costly.  Plus, why don't THEY produce some of their music, keep it in-house?  I'm sure Tamar has a recording studio in that compound of hers, or they can use space for a good rate.  Then between Toni and Tamar, they know some heavy-hitters in the industry who can work with them, I'm sure.  I get the impression that Toni knows how to burn through some money and equates lower budgets with being poor/defective.  I can't believe someone with all her experience is turning her nose up at being an independent artist like it's beneath her.  How foolish!

[MichelEliz]

Toni is a twice-Bankruptee...shes the last person they need to consult about financial advice. #noshadealltruth

[drivethroo]

I get the impression that Toni knows how to burn through some money and equates lower budgets with being poor/defective.

 

 

I was through with Toni and her $ choices when she said back in the 90s that she just can't sleep on any less than 400 thread count sheets.  This is when 180 and 250 thread count sheets were the norm and the 400 thread count sheets were really expensive.  Also, her wedding registry when she got married to Keri Lewis was quite ridiculous as well. 

[demarti]

Toni is a twice-Bankruptee...shes the last person they need to consult about financial advice. #noshadealltruth

I wonder if one of the reasons Toni filed for bankruptcy twice is because she was supporting the whole damn family in one way or another. I'm talking about before Tamar latched on to money bags Vince and Trina married Gabe. There was a time when Toni was the only one making any money in that family.  

[Watermelon]

I'm not sure. She never financially supported Traci or Michael. she employed Trina, Towanda and Tamar.  Tamar has been with Vince for 11 years and Gabe and Trina have been together even longer than that.

 

Toni says the second bankruptcy was for the cancellation of a tour due to her illness and I think not having insurance.  However she worded it, that made sense to me.  If anything the first bankruptcy was probably due more to her income slowing down and her not making adjustments.

[WimminWinning]

I wonder if one of the reasons Toni filed for bankruptcy twice is because she was supporting the whole damn family in one way or another. I'm talking about before Tamar latched on to money bags Vince and Trina married Gabe. There was a time when Toni was the only one making any money in that family.  

 

They've all had jobs and made their own money as backup singers and personal assistant as far as I know. Plus, the 3 Braxton sisters were in a group together for 5 or so years where I assume they made middle-class money and Tamar has had multiple record deals which all probably came with signing bonuses. I think Toni was only really supporting Evelyn - and Tamar helped out with that (before Vince). Toni's support was hiring her sisters as backup singers and personal assistants. She would be paying that money to somebody anyway because somebody had to sing doo w** pop and clean her makeup brushes, so it's not like she did her sisters any favors. Toni has bitched and moaned in season 1 about how she NEVER got to hire her own background singers and enjoy her success alone because her sisters always sang backup for her - which tells me that Trina, Tamar, and Towanda were working all those years before BFV.

 

Given that we saw Towanda and her family couch surf for 2 years, we know that Toni doesn't just go off and buy her sisters' houses or pay their rents. I'm sure there was an occasional car here and there that she bought (I know Tamar mentioned buying a car for Towanda, so I'm sure Toni has done something similar for a sister or two), but I don't get the sense that her sisters were like dependents.

 

According to Toni, the first bankruptcy was due to a TLC type record deal plus a bit of overspending. Her claims about the bad record deal makes sense given that she was signed to the same label as TLC (LaFace Records) around the same time and she did sue LaFace for the bad record deal (she eventually was awarded some money by a judge). The second bankruptcy is due to her medical bills and shows cancelled due to illness that her entertainment insurance wouldn't cover.  

Edited September 19, 2014 by WimminWinning

[cafe au lait]

 

I get the impression that Toni knows how to burn through some money and equates lower budgets with being poor/defective.

 

 

I wonder if one of the reasons Toni filed for bankruptcy twice is because she was supporting the whole damn family in one way or another. I'm talking about before Tamar latched on to money bags Vince and Trina married Gabe. There was a time when Toni was the only one making any money in that family.

 

According to Toni: 

 

According to Toni, she signed a slave contract with LaFace/Arista Records and was left with just $2,000 after the label recouped their money for her travel, wardrobe, hair, make up and everything that went into making her a star

 

Traci got married and went to work. Towanda got married and went to work. Towanda later worked as Toni's personal assistant. If she had not paid Towanda; she would have paid a stranger. They all did background work for Toni. Again, if they had not; Toni would have paid strangers to do it. Why not keep that money in the family. Toni did take on the responsibility of taking care of her mom's financial needs. However, it does not appear that her family drove her into bankruptcy. 

 

Toni's 2nd bankruptcy had nothing to do with her personal spending. The lawsuits that she faced after pulling out of her Vegas show pushed her into bankruptcy.

 

Toni does not want to "burn through" her personal fiances by footing the bill for producing the album independently. She's trying to keep her cash, not spend it on that album.

 

The hair and make-up tonight reached an all time low.  They gave us one busted wig after another. Thank God Toni is not participating in the wigfest this season. The  make-up, the make-up! Was this the Halloween episode or are the sisters practicing to compete on Ru Paul's Drag Race.  

Edited September 19, 2014 by cafe au lait

[WimminWinning]

 

Toni does not want to "burn through" her personal fiances by footing the bill for producing the album independently. She's trying to keep her cash, not spend it on that album.

 

After the first bankruptcy, I would think that Toni would learn that the artist is footing the bill at the end of the day either way you go. The question for the Braxtons is do you want to foot the bill using the small percentage of money you get from the label after they take their cut or do you want to foot the bill yourself upfront and keep all of your revenue (and the masters of your music!)?

 

If they go through a record company, the label essentially gives them a loan to pay for the album recording, advances, production, and touring, but the Braxtons would then pay for that loan out of their royalties, which is the money they are entitled to after the label takes a large percentage of the revenue. Toni found herself in bankruptcy because the percentage of royalties she got hardly covered the loan she had to pay back to the label for the producer(s), recording costs, advances, video costs, and touring expenses. Going independent would mean that the Braxtons could pay for their expenses, then keep the majority of the revenue - thus eliminating the large cut the label takes.

Edited September 19, 2014 by WimminWinning

[RedKoolAide]

Was it me or were they all high as kites at the sleepover? They must've eaten those pot brownies, lol.

I'm so over them arguing over every little thing. It's old and annoying.