S04.E01: Chapter One: The Hellfire Club

[KarenX]

1 hour ago, Redrum said:

It definitely tasted like chemistry.

The one I tasted back in 1979 tasted like cigarettes, because that is what adults did in the 1970s at neighborhood picnics around children: use soda cans as ash trays at the table, before the Soda-Environmemtalist-Industrial Complex swapped out the pull tabs for the push tabs and the drink hole got too small.

The Boomers really hated GenX, even then. Our ST Gang has to survive so many hidden dangers!

Edited June 10, 2022 by KarenX

[Cheezwiz]

I enjoyed the first ep - was glad they did a recap at the beginning, because I forgot almost everything about the prior season.

Dustin and Steve still make me laugh. I still don't care about Nancy's relationship with Jonathan. Rumour has it that the actor who plays him is a major druggy in real life, and he certainly appeared that way - he did not look well at all in the 2 minutes we saw him onscreen.

I felt sad for Eleven being bullied, and assumed she would go full-Carrie on her bitchy classmate, but I guess her powers are on mute for now. I'm hoping the episode opener was a fake-out. Nice to see Matthew Modine and his luxuriant silver mane back again.

I like how they're showing the friends following their interests and drifting apart - that happens in high-school. Poor Lucas - no one to cheer him on at basketball. I don't think Max is necessarily just depressed about what happened to her step-sibling. I'm guessing it's more a case of her current home life being really lousy on top of prior trauma.

What is UP with Will's bowl cut circa 1986? C'mon show, not even the nerdiest most awkward kid was sporting that hairdo in that era!

I wasn't sure about him at first, but I really like Eddie, and think he's a great addition to the show. His character reminded me of the affable stoners who hung out in my art classes in high-school. I enjoyed his kind interactions with Chrissy. RIP Chrissy.

Speaking of art/graphics, I had to smile looking at Nancy doing paste-up work at the newspaper . I was on yearbook committee in my high-school that same year, and looking at the blue graph paper and exacto-knives brought back memories. That's how  we assembled printed things prior to computers, kids!

I think the school's Tiger mascot was giving it his all - he amused me all episode!

[Redrum]

6 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

What is UP with Will's bowl cut circa 1986? C'mon show, not even the nerdiest most awkward kid was sporting that hairdo in that era!

I did have a classmate with that haircut in that year but it was considered very nerdy.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, Redrum said:

I did have a classmate with that haircut in that year but it was considered very nerdy.

I think Will is supposed to look nerdy and out of the main stream of other kids his age.

[iMonrey]

Quote

They were still making Tab, but young people were drinking Diet Coke. My two best friends were still in high school in 86 and they were big Diet Coke drinkers. That being said, I didn't notice it in the episode. Where were they drinking it?

Dustin was holding a can in the school cafeteria. If they sell soda in the cafeteria, or if there's a soda vending machine at school, it is extremely unlikely that TaB would be available in either instance. It's possible he brought it from home, but that's a lot of hand-waving. The reality is the show stuck it in there for the sake of nostalgia but it's not really period-appropriate. I used to love TaB back in the 70s but it was almost unheard of by the late 80s. (I'm an old fart, I remember these things.)😒

[Clanstarling]

1 minute ago, iMonrey said:

Dustin was holding a can in the school cafeteria. If they sell soda in the cafeteria, or if there's a soda vending machine at school, it is extremely unlikely that TaB would be available in either instance. It's possible he brought it from home, but that's a lot of hand-waving. The reality is the show stuck it in there for the sake of nostalgia but it's not really period-appropriate. I used to love TaB back in the 70s but it was almost unheard of by the late 80s. (I'm an old fart, I remember these things.)😒

I used to drink Tab in the 70's in grad school. I remember that so many would buy the Tab, then get a candy bar - it balances out I guess. 😂

I eventually went to Diet Pepsi, which I thought tasted better than Diet Coke (for full sugar, however, it was the opposite), especially if you added a splash of lemon juice to cancel out the artificial sweetner taste.

I don't know what would have been available in middle schools in the 80's so I'll bow to those younger than me who have more intimate knowledge.

[Capricasix]

Cherry Coke was the 💣 I remember going on a school trip to Florida in January 1986, when I was in grade 10, and drinking it at Epcot Centre 😄

[PurpleTentacle]

On 5/29/2022 at 10:18 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Most of what you raise doesn't really have to do with rules but with custom or your assumptions.

Um no, it's 90% the rules.

Even the 10% that aren't strictly the rules add up and are pretty clear. It's called preponderance of evidence.

On 5/29/2022 at 10:18 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

A DM customarily wouldn't tell people exactly how many hit points a monster has. That may be the custom, but there's no rule against it. So Eddie may have chosen to do it. Also, as I said, an approximate estimate of the monster's hit points can be derived. That isn't "metagaming." That is just standard, and Dustin has been established in the series as a pretty smart guy, so estimating that Vecna has 15 points left is within his character.

There are rules against it. A DM can break rules or make their own. That doesn't mean that there aren't rules.

Also this is Eddie we are talking about, a DM who runs a hardcore sadistic campaign. He would never disclose HP. You are trying really hard to make this work, without any rhyme or reason.

On 5/29/2022 at 10:18 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Eddie asked Erica's level because he prejudged her as an annoying brat who didn't know what she was doing and didn't want to waste his time with someone who was immature and would detract from the game.

Yes and that didn't make sense. I explained why above.

On 5/29/2022 at 10:18 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

I don't think the level of a character is irrelevant. It shows the both the player's experience and the how well the character might be able to withstand what they might face. I don't see why it matters that they got to level 14 in another campaign or through this one.

It is absolutely irrelevant. A lot of campaigns start at level 10. This might also be your 10th campaign and you are currently playing a level 2 halfling bard. It says nothing about your experience.

On 5/29/2022 at 10:18 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Even assuming 1E bards had the full array of what they have now in 5e, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that the scenario was so nasty that Dustin's bard exhausted his healing abilities as well as potions.  And I don't think it's necessarily an issue of them being bad planners. The final battle could have just been that much of a meatgrinder, or Eddie could have just had excellent rolls for the bad guys.

They aren't playing 1E, they are playing AD&D, which is 2E.

I already gave you a point on that one. Not sure why you are still arguing.

On 5/29/2022 at 10:18 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Generally speaking, most dice rolls would be one die at a time.

I'm beginning to doubt that you know anything about D&D. At level 20 you roll a crapton of dice at once, especially for damage.

On 5/29/2022 at 10:18 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Is it probable that there might be a situation where a player would roll a 20-sider, a 4-sider and a 8-sider at the same time?

It was a D3, D8 and D10. As I said before.

On 5/29/2022 at 10:18 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Probably not, but I can't rule out the possibility that there was such a situation

Good thing I can rule that out for you then.

On 5/29/2022 at 10:18 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

As you said, Eddie could have adapted Vecna so that he was manageable at a lower level than 20. We don't know which rolls were rolling for damage dice or exactly what they were rolling for in most cases, other than the last rolls that Dustin and Erica did were to hit. 

They were at the end of a campaign. It's unlikely they were much lower level.

Also nerfing Vecna is about as close to sacrilege as it gets for a hardcore DM. He is deeply steeped in D&D as a powerfull arch lich, demi god or god. Depending at which stage of his ascention you encounter him (if he is a god you won't fight him, unless your DM wants to kill you). So again, very, very, very unlikely.

If not rolling damage, what were they rolling those exotic dice for, during a battle?

On 5/29/2022 at 10:18 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Every group of nerds is potentially different. Some are going to be nitpicky. Some are just going to have fun. This group of nerds seemingly idolizes Eddie enough that they are too unwilling to just straight up say "We're going to the basketball game to support Lucas. Let's move Hellfire Club to another night." The fact that Eddie is at least two years older than the rest of the members probably means he has a lock on their respect as well. So I wouldn't be surprised if the other Hellfire Club members either didn't grok if/when Eddie did idiosyncratic things or would not have an issue with it when he does.

It wouldn't be nitpicky if Eddie didn't know how to run a game, which this amounts to, with all the things that don't make sense. No Nerd would have ever played more than 2 games with him, no matter what type of Nerd they were.

On 5/29/2022 at 10:18 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Again, it's not mostly a changed version of the rules. It's someone operating different from the conventional way of doing D&D in your mind. As I see it, here are the issues you've raised:

Again, how it's shown on the show makes no sense.

On 5/29/2022 at 10:18 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

1. A DM isn't going to tell people the monster's hitpoints. Addressed above and in my original response.

I adressed that multiple times already, but by all means, we can repeat that 10 more times.

On 5/29/2022 at 10:18 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

2. Putting a new character in an existing campaign, or caring about that character's level,. Nothing stops a DM from doing this, even if it's not normally done. Just because the better way to ask about someone's experience would be to ask about how many campaigns or sessions a player has been doesn't mean that any given DM wouldn't ask the way Eddie did.

First part: You are arguing against a straw man. I never said you can't put a new character in an existing campaign and already told you as much. Yet you repeated it like three times already. Not sure I can still assume good faith there.

Second part: What stops a DM from asking a characters level is common sense. I laid out why above.

On 5/29/2022 at 10:18 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

3. Having a fight come down to two characters left/not spamming healing potions. Addressed above.

Still not sure why you are still arguing about that one. Adressed above.

On 5/29/2022 at 10:18 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

4. Allowing players to huddle to make a decision. In normal sports, part of the purpose of a huddle is that you don't want the opposition to hear your planning, and part of it is a break in the action. In D&D there's no real need for a huddle, because the action isn't continuous and because the DM can't really respond to the player's planning in the same way. All that said, players deciding to huddle is an idiosyncratic thing that the rules don't prevent. You mention that a round in D&D is 6 seconds. I tend to doubt that every DM forces players to act within that amount of real time. Players, at least in my experience, can take as long as they want to talk about what they should do.  Or at least, as far as I know, there's not a D&D equivalent of a shot clock in the official rules.

A DM won't enforce 6 seconds, afterall players are not their characters and have to search through spells and attacks they have, but a DM won't allow a discussion during combat that would take longer than those 6 seconds. Because it breaks the role play element. A strict DM like Eddie certainly wouldn't. If lengthy strategy discussions was allowed during combat in your games, you had very lenient DMs.

The 6 seconds a round (not a turn) takes are the shot clock in the official rules. TIme dialates for players chosing their attacks or moves, or whatever, but not for tactical discussions the characters would have to have.

Also from this I take it you agree that the huddle was ridiculous. So since we are in agreement we can stop arguing about this, right?

On 5/29/2022 at 10:18 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

5. Dustin's 11 roll should have been a hit. We have no basis for guessing what would and wouldn't be a hit against Eddie's version of Vecna by Dustin's character. We don't even know specifically what Dustin was trying to hit him with. 

That was not a definite. I just said it likely should have been. I said so in my post. Could you stop arguing against something I never said as an actual criticism?

On 5/29/2022 at 10:18 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

6. The characters rolled too many types of dice at once. Or they rolled too few damage dice. Again, these are assumptions, and at least somewhat self-contradictory. 

No, that's how the game works and nothing about is is contradictory.

-

Why are you trying so hard to find the most unlikely explainations in the universe to make this fit with actual gameplay, instead of accepting that they changed how the game really plays in favor of better visuals for TV?

[Athena]

It's time to move on from the D&D discussion. Please watch your tone. Thank you.

[Thalia]

On 6/10/2022 at 2:15 PM, janie jones said:

I don't understand why people wouldn't be drinking Tab.

It was mother's milk to me back in the day.   It was widely available in vending machines (at least in TN) until Spring 1985 (my last year at UT).  Diet Coke then replaced it.  I held on as long as I could, but I soon discovered that you could drink TaB or Diet Coke, but you couldn't interchange them.  Drinking one made the other one taste terrible.  And by the end of the decade it was odd to even see TaB in a grocery store.

Yes, an entire chapter of my memoir will be dedicated to the 1980s Cola Wars.  :-)   Which reminds me, Season Three Lucas lost all credibility to me with his unfathomable love for New Coke.   That is probably the real reason Max broke up with him (again) between seasons.   

[Sarah 103]

4 hours ago, Thalia said:

Yes, an entire chapter of my memoir will be dedicated to the 1980s Cola Wars.  :-) 

Thank you for this sentence, because now I realize I had totally misunderstood the line in "We Didn't Start the Fire." I thought it was about soda companies competing with each other using rock stars in ad campaigns. 

Also I am sorry and offer apologizes if the paragraph above made anyone feel old. 

[Clanstarling]

24 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

Thank you for this sentence, because now I realize I had totally misunderstood the line in "We Didn't Start the Fire." I thought it was about soda companies competing with each other using rock stars in ad campaigns. 

Also I am sorry and offer apologizes if the paragraph above made anyone feel old. 

I don't need a paragraph to make me feel old, since I am old. No apologies needed for me. 🙂

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Well, technically I think that line refers to Coke vs. Pepsi (this was also the era of the Pepsi Challenge), not Coke vs. Tab. 

[Sarah 103]

14 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Well, technically I think that line refers to Coke vs. Pepsi (this was also the era of the Pepsi Challenge), not Coke vs. Tab. 

I think it could cover Coke vs. New Coke as well. I think the overall point of the lyric is that there was an awful lot of stuff happening with soda and rivalries/competition between different types of soda. The lyric covers everything. 

[nodorothyparker]

So this season is moving into the later mid-80s with a vengeance with bigger hair band hair and Satanic panic and homages to teen slasher movies like Nightmare on Elm Street. Eddie is totally that guy we all knew in high school who was there on the six or seven year plan who was legally old enough to buy everybody beer.

From fairly early on, I've always thought this show does grief and trauma really well and this was no exception. All of these kids have really seen some stuff and they're dealing with the fallout in a way that feels very natural to me. It doesn't matter that Billy was an asshole, he was still a big part of Max's life for what appears to be a number of years when there probably were some parts that weren't bad. Now she's living in a rundown trailer park across from a drug dealer with her mom passed out on the couch. Eleven has been through such a huge amount of trauma and loss in her short life with so very little practical life experience to even know how to cope with classic '80s mean girls. Her diorama did look comparatively childish next to a slide presentation on Helen Keller, which makes all the sense when you consider how little formal schooling she's really had. I like that Will is trying to be a brother to her even if he's not really equipped for that either.

High school is where childhood and middle school friendship sometimes really start to diverge and it was painful to see Mike and Dustin starting to veer away from Lucas here. But that made sense too even as it was sad to see Lucas finally get his big moment and none of his friends were there to see it.

It wouldn't be Stranger Things if Joyce wasn't chopping up some inanimate object on suspicion of ... something. I'm going to need a little more to go on before I'm really convinced Eleven killed all of her lab siblings.

[Hotel Snarker]

Poor Will. I feel for the guy. He's either on death’s door in the Upside Down being a punching bag for evil OR he's fine and all his friends are totally ignoring him including his best friend. Dude can't win. The DND really drove it home and I never noticed until I saw this and other comments like it but man, the boy can't catch a break, can he? Oh, what's that Will, you want to go back to old times and play some fun games in a basement? Pfft, no, we don't have time for that. What's that, you left town and have no friends in your new school and Mike barely writes you? Well, guess what, buddy, we play DND again here in Hawkins with a bunch of other students now and it's fun. But you can't be a part of it, sorry Will.

OMG, the second hand embarrassment I just got for El. Angela deserves everything that’s coming to her. She’s 🗑. I don't know how a high school teacher of all people can't pick up on sarcastic, gaslighting teenage bullshit. But it's very authentic to 80's high school movies. The adults are always clueless to that bullying undercurrent.

That scene with Chrissy is terrifying. What a way to end the first episode. I actually hate that she died basically alone. You can tell that even as her real body died, she was forced to suffer through it all. Vecna is fucking terrifying. He's Freddy 2.0 which makes it even more terrifying...

The opening flashback was an interesting recontextualization of season 1. Looks like Brenner was gentle/friendly with the kids and started abusing Eleven because he thought she murdered all the others and considered her dangerous. Doesn't excuse what he did one bit, but it makes him more three-dimensional as a character. My theory is Vecna killed the kids (pretty sure I saw broken bones) and Eleven fought him off, but Brenner drew the wrong conclusion from it (and Eleven wasn't able to verbalize what she saw).

[Dev F]

18 hours ago, Hotel Snarker said:

The DND really drove it home and I never noticed until I saw this and other comments like it but man, the boy can't catch a break, can he? Oh, what's that Will, you want to go back to old times and play some fun games in a basement? Pfft, no, we don't have time for that. What's that, you left town and have no friends in your new school and Mike barely writes you? Well, guess what, buddy, we play DND again here in Hawkins with a bunch of other students now and it's fun. But you can't be a part of it, sorry Will.

That honestly didn't really bother me, since season 3 didn't leave me with the impression that Will genuinely cared that much about D&D as a hobby. It was just safer to get upset about that than to admit that he was actually jealous Mike was spending more time with El.

After all, Will's S3 story ends with him giving away his D&D manuals, and when Mike asks if he might want to keep them to play with another party, he says, "Not possible." In other words, what he really wants is to play D&D with Mike, and no one else will do.

What I'm actually hoping for Will is not that he gets to play D&D again, but that he figures out how to be the person he was during their S3 D&D session—confident and ostentatious and a little bit cheeky—without having to couch it in terms of a fantasy character.

[Sarah 103]

On 6/28/2022 at 12:58 PM, Dev F said:

I'm actually hoping for Will is not that he gets to play D&D again, but that he figures out how to be the person he was during their S3 D&D session—confident and ostentatious and a little bit cheeky—without having to couch it in terms of a fantasy character.

That's a great point. Will knows who he is when he is playing D&D, but isn't sure who he is or what he wants to be in the real world. Figuring out identitiy is a big part of being of a teenager, but I think more so for Will in California. Without D&D and fighting monsters, he doesn't really know who he is.

Also, this makes me wonder what Eddie was like as a freshman. I think in a few years, Dustin will become the new Eddie running the Hellfire Club and will be giving another young teenager advice on girls. I see Dustin becoming a mix of Eddie and Steve. 

[CCTC]

Finally started watching the new season.  I thought it was good and definitely captured the horror movie vibes of the time, with obvious nods to Nightmare on Elm Street and the high school portrayal in movies at the time in general.

I graduated in 1986, and while it was fading from existence there were still a number of girls in my class who kept a can in their locker and preferred it to Diet Coke.   There is something about preferring the drink you have been drinking for years.  That said, it was horrible and deserved to be a casualty of the Cola Wars and really did all but disappear by 1990.  I tended to avoid diet pop, but preferred Diet Dr. Pepper when I drank it.

After all that said, they probably did include it because it looked retro.  I thought the first couple of years they did a good job making it look like it could be 1983 in a more organic way.  Starting season 3, it seemed a bit more of a forced in your face 1980's look.  Granted, the styles did get more over-the-top during that time.

I think some of the bullying comments were spot-on, but the overt, public nature with everyone laughing seemed false.  It would be more likely be in the hallways not in front of the teacher, from this tormentor who would want the teacher to think she was a perfect student.  As for the destruction of the diorama, there would have been a number of kids laughing trying to ingratiate themselves with the popular bullies, but there would have been a number of kids disgusted.  They would have even understood El's scream and been sympathetic to her.  Kids can be horrible and school and there are clearly bullies, both overt and more subtle, but there actually a number of kids who are caring and can feel empathy.  While the majority of them would maybe not challenge the bully, a number of them would have been uncomfortable with such brazen cruelty and not everyone would have been laughing along (although would seem that way to the bullied.)

Still, even without her powers, I feel El would have gone up and punched her blonde classmate by this point.  

Regarding older looking teens, before 90210, there was Happy Days, especially the later Richie years.

I don't dislike Nancy and Jonathan, but with the addition of new characters, but think that their characters have run their course and would not have been sad if the season started the beginning of the next school year with them off at college.  There have been enough new people added that it would make sense to get rid of some of the other characters who don't have as much to offer.   It seems like they are setting up a somewhat realistic post-graduation break-up.  I wonder if Nancy will have any significant scenes with Steve.   Not that I want them in a relationship but would be interesting to see how react to how they both have changed.

Even if Max was not close to Billy, her reaction is understandable, if for just how violent the death was that she witnessed.  I agree they could have done a better job making Billy more shaded throughout.  It would have given a more emotional punch to his death.  They did a good job making season 1 Bad Boy Steve more rounded and seem to be doing that with Eddie who was going to sell drugs to someone who was clearly vulnerable, but Billy was pretty much a mustache twirling villain 99.9% of the time.

With all of the angst of El and Max am glad Joyce got some humorous scenes with both her job and her scenes with the doll.  Loved her wave to the neighbors.

So far I am enjoying the most I have since season 1 (at least after one episode).

The video rental industry really did have a quick rise and fall.  When I was a first out of college there was a Block Buster, Title-Wave (later Hollywood video), another smaller chain and an independent video store all within about four blocks of each other - all of them busy.  I do kind of miss the browsing and reading the backs of the videos.  I feel like I caught some movies that I probably now miss when going through the streaming browser.

Edited July 3, 2022 by CCTC

[LeGrandElephant]

Wow, this show has gotten so gory and gross! I don’t remember it being so much like a scary horror movie. Can anyone point me to a place to read good recaps of season 4? I don’t want to watch it anymore but I’m curious what happens. 

[dbklmt]

13 minutes ago, LeGrandElephant said:

Wow, this show has gotten so gory and gross! I don’t remember it being so much like a scary horror movie. Can anyone point me to a place to read good recaps of season 4? I don’t want to watch it anymore but I’m curious what happens. 

There are several if you Google Stranger Things Recaps, but this one is my favorite.

https://www.tvinsider.com/show/stranger-things/

Edited July 5, 2022 by dbklmt

[LeGrandElephant]

Did El lose her powers last season? Do we know why she doesn’t have them? I don’t remember. 

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, LeGrandElephant said:

Did El lose her powers last season? Do we know why she doesn’t have them? I don’t remember. 

Yes, we saw at the very end of last season that El could no longer use her powers - as she was packing all the stuff in her room to move away with Joyce and the boys, she tried to move things with her mind and couldn't. It was something to do with the trauma of the final battle that burned her out, blocked her from using her powers.

[bijoux]

On 6/7/2022 at 5:11 PM, Clanstarling said:

Good question. I'd imagine it was that she was Hopper's daughter (they wouldn't know - doubt they moved in the same circles before everything happened) and that after he died Joyce took her in.

But that leaves out other interactions they may have had and I may have forgotten.

I'm coming late to the party, but Hopper was the Chief of police in Small Town, USA, so a pretty public figure. He wasn't somebody people in town didn't know.

On 6/11/2022 at 8:48 AM, Cheezwiz said:

Dustin and Steve still make me laugh. I still don't care about Nancy's relationship with Jonathan. Rumour has it that the actor who plays him is a major druggy in real life, and he certainly appeared that way - he did not look well at all in the 2 minutes we saw him onscreen.

I felt sad for Eleven being bullied, and assumed she would go full-Carrie on her bitchy classmate, but I guess her powers are on mute for now. I'm hoping the episode opener was a fake-out. Nice to see Matthew Modine and his luxuriant silver mane back again.

I like how they're showing the friends following their interests and drifting apart - that happens in high-school. Poor Lucas - no one to cheer him on at basketball. I don't think Max is necessarily just depressed about what happened to her step-sibling. I'm guessing it's more a case of her current home life being really lousy on top of prior trauma.

...

I think the school's Tiger mascot was giving it his all - he amused me all episode!

I love the way they handled Lucas branching out. There was no typical ignoring of your old, unpopular friends. Instead he planned on using his potential future popularity for all of them, including Max who had dumped him yet again. He hasn't even given up on D&D, he's still a member of their party, he simply had a scheduling conflict that night. This was a really excellent episode for his character.

For Max' as well, even if her storyline is depressing. Along with the things that had already been brought up, I think what's eating her up is that she didn't like Billy a lot of (most of) the time. So her feelings are more complex than after losing someone you unequivocally loved. There's a lot of conflicting emotions in this case.

The mascot went all in. Loved the way he had everyone stand up for the Muppet rendition of the national anthem. And hey, Tammy did to Nashville! This also confirms that Robin was actually taking an advanced class, since Tammy was apparently in the same year as Steve.

On 6/29/2022 at 7:10 PM, Sarah 103 said:

Also, this makes me wonder what Eddie was like as a freshman. I think in a few years, Dustin will become the new Eddie running the Hellfire Club and will be giving another young teenager advice on girls. I see Dustin becoming a mix of Eddie and Steve. 

You mean his two older, male friends? 😂

[Clanstarling]

19 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I'm coming late to the party, but Hopper was the Chief of police in Small Town, USA, so a pretty public figure. He wasn't somebody people in town didn't know.

True, but he kept his private life very private - living in the back woods, etc. And for the most part, El wasn't supposed to go out in public (the mall stuff was, as I recall, her rebelling with Max's instigation). And I think she didn't go to school either, until California, but I am not sure about that.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Clanstarling

[bijoux]

Hopper moved to the woods when El came to live with him. He had another place in S1. El definitely didn't go to school before the summer of '85 since she wasn't supposed to go out in crowds. I don't know if Joyce enrolled her in Hawkins before they moved in October of '85 (the title card stated the move was three months after the final S3 showdown on July 4th, so the school year had definitely started by then) or if she simply waited to enroll her in California.

El called Mike's place in S3 once and Karen didn't seem surprised when she picked up the phone. So you'd assume she knew something. The easiest story to sell would be Hop finding out about a child from a past relationship and bringing her to live with him.

But this is just a long winding road leading to - Karen only knows and cares as much as the show wants her to at any given moment.

ETA: Unrelated to this, the teacher im California, while apparently well meaning, was just way too soft. Multiple children were laughing on the face of a girl telling everyone her dad had died. He didn't even need to die as a hero, her dad died. That's not something you laugh at, you disgusting psychos. The teacher should have brought the hammer down HARD for that. Including, but not limited to regular visits to a psychatrist at least until the end of the school year. There is something were off with them reacting like that.

Edited July 31, 2022 by bijoux

[Taryn74]

36 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Multiple children were laughing on the face of a girl telling everyone her dad had died. He didn't even need to die as a hero, her dad died. That's not something you laugh at, you disgusting psychos.

For real. Totally uncalled for.

I do have to say, though, I wondered about the wisdom of El sharing that there was a security tripwire around the cabin. That's the kind of thing to make people ask questions, you know? Makes it sound like they were living in a militia compound where the wrong people come sniffing around and go missing LOL.

[bijoux]

56 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

For real. Totally uncalled for.

I do have to say, though, I wondered about the wisdom of El sharing that there was a security tripwire around the cabin. That's the kind of thing to make people ask questions, you know? Makes it sound like they were living in a militia compound where the wrong people come sniffing around and go missing LOL.

For sure. Like, I know Joyce is climbing up that corporate ladder out of her dining room, but she might have found time to go over El's assignment with her.

[Sarah 103]

4 hours ago, bijoux said:

Like, I know Joyce is climbing up that corporate ladder out of her dining room, but she might have found time to go over El's assignment with her.

Or maybe Will could have said something. If she practiced her presentation at home, I could picture Will advising her to leave out the part about the tripwire. El knows that she hasn't lived a normal life and she would have trusted Will's advice. 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Sarah 103

[Clanstarling]

19 hours ago, bijoux said:

Hopper moved to the woods when El came to live with him. He had another place in S1. El definitely didn't go to school before the summer of '85 since she wasn't supposed to go out in crowds. I don't know if Joyce enrolled her in Hawkins before they moved in October of '85 (the title card stated the move was three months after the final S3 showdown on July 4th, so the school year had definitely started by then) or if she simply waited to enroll her in California.

El called Mike's place in S3 once and Karen didn't seem surprised when she picked up the phone. So you'd assume she knew something. The easiest story to sell would be Hop finding out about a child from a past relationship and bringing her to live with him.

But this is just a long winding road leading to - Karen only knows and cares as much as the show wants her to at any given moment.

ETA: Unrelated to this, the teacher im California, while apparently well meaning, was just way too soft. Multiple children were laughing on the face of a girl telling everyone her dad had died. He didn't even need to die as a hero, her dad died. That's not something you laugh at, you disgusting psychos. The teacher should have brought the hammer down HARD for that. Including, but not limited to regular visits to a psychatrist at least until the end of the school year. There is something were off with them reacting like that.

Fair points. And absolutely, that teacher needed to shut down that laughter when El said her dad died. That is what really angered me about that scene. You shouldn't allow bullying in any case, but when it's someone who's been recently bereaved, slap that bullying down (metaphorically, of course, for the teacher).

[BlueSkies]

On 8/1/2022 at 10:19 AM, Clanstarling said:

Fair points. And absolutely, that teacher needed to shut down that laughter when El said her dad died. That is what really angered me about that scene. You shouldn't allow bullying in any case, but when it's someone who's been recently bereaved, slap that bullying down (metaphorically, of course, for the teacher).

Totally agree.

But as a schoolboy of the 90's, I never really saw too many teachers in my day shut bullies/mean people down.  I'm guessing the 80's were like that as well.  People I think are more sensitive to it today.  Not that it bullying still doesn't exist by a long shot.  

[BlueSkies]

On 8/1/2022 at 10:19 AM, Clanstarling said:

Fair points. And absolutely, that teacher needed to shut down that laughter when El said her dad died. That is what really angered me about that scene. You shouldn't allow bullying in any case, but when it's someone who's been recently bereaved, slap that bullying down (metaphorically, of course, for the teacher).

Just to kind of expand on this today I heard somebody at work make a joke about me He Actually Talks.

In high school I was joked about that a few times.  In front of the whole class as well.  Lack of verbal communication/not having much to say.  Then I learned later in my life I was on the autism spectrum the whole time.

Point is people wouldn’t laugh at someone with a broken leg who walked slow.  It’s sorta the same thing for someone with autism who doesn’t speak.

Just needed to get that out.  That co worker triggered me and it related a little to the thread 

[Taryn74]

Rewatched tonight. Gah, I hate that smug bitch Angela so, so much. The teacher definitely should have been tougher on her in the classroom. 

I had already forgotten that part of Max's mental/emotional decline was that her mother was drinking and they had moved into a crappy trailer after her stepfather left them. So that makes it less jarring.

Nice to see that Erica was putting Will's D&D books to good use. It seemed like she had already gotten familiar with the game before Dustin called her in as backup.

Good grief, Mike. You really think two schools are going to agree to change the night of their championship basketball game because a handful of guys want to play D&D? He sounded like it was a serious suggestion. 😂

[Thalia]

A zillion things to watch and I'm going through Stranger Things again.  This time I found myself wondering how Hopper and the Russian guard knew that Joyce had moved to California.  More than that, they had her address.  Given that this is pre-internet, that prison library must have a pretty bitchin' collection of US phone books and city directories. 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Thalia

[Nashville]

7 hours ago, Thalia said:

A zillion things to watch and I'm going through Stranger Things again.  This time I found myself wondering how Hopper and the Russian guard knew that Joyce had moved to California.  More than that, they had her address.  Given that this is pre-internet, that prison library must have a pretty bitchin' collection of US phone books and city directories. 

In Soviet Russia, library researches YOU.

😉