S20.E13: Fran Liebowitz; Doug Jones; Ali Velshi

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Interview:  Fran Liebowitz

Panelists:  Doug Jones; Ali Velshi 

Original air date 2022.04.29

[arachne]

Good panel last night -- Ali Velshi and Doug Jones were able to keep Bill mostly in check. I say "mostly" because Bill refuses to let go of Gen Z griping. Deal with it, Bill, Gen Z is not going away, they'll get older and then there will be another generation to complain about.

Doug Jones was (not surprisingly) a mite too defensive about the Democrats. I'm afraid I must agree with Bill: the upcoming hearings about 1/6/2021, while important, will not change enough minds at the ballot box.

Who in the audience keeps whoopin' and hollerin' at everything Bill says? Are they getting paid for that, or are they just high?

That Disney movie bit mid-show -- not funny in the least! 😠 

And I can't believe Bill has never heard of Orthodox Christianity!

Edited April 30, 2022 by arachne

[iMonrey]

Oh God, not Fran Lebowitz. I'll never understand Bill's (or anyone else's) love for her. She's not funny, she's not insightful, she's just kind of bitchy. I guess some people thinks that's funny. Men dress like men in European airports, huh? Please. This from a woman wearing a blazer, blue jeans and cowboy boots. And she's touring? Doing what, stand-up? An Evening With Fran Lebowitz? I couldn't stand ten minutes of her.

And what the hell is wrong with Meghan Markle? She's got Prince Harry's balls in her purse? WTF? What misogynistic bullshit is this? OMG.

Hey Bill, you know why they don't teach Civics in school anymore? Republicans. It's Republican state legislatures that are increasingly driving the curriculum in their public schools. Pretty soon they won't teach history anymore either. It was the Bush administration who pushed STEM. It's not leftist woke liberals who took Civics courses out of schools. God. Do some research.

And no, schools are not teaching five years olds about sex. Jeez. I swear Bill gets all his information from Tucker Carlson.

And now he's defending Manchin and Sinema. 

I notice Bill keeps repeating this mantra that He hasn't changed, They've changed. Clearly he's got his back up because clearly people are calling him out for pushing the right's agenda for them. Instead of getting all defensive about it maybe he should stop and think about what the hell he's been doing.

[Hedgehog2022]

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Oh God, not Fran Lebowitz. I'll never understand Bill's (or anyone else's) love for her. She's not funny, she's not insightful, she's just kind of bitchy. I guess some people thinks that's funny. Men dress like men in European airports, huh? Please. This from a woman wearing a blazer, blue jeans and cowboy boots. And she's touring? Doing what, stand-up? An Evening With Fran Lebowitz? I couldn't stand ten minutes of her.

And what the hell is wrong with Meghan Markle? She's got Prince Harry's balls in her purse? WTF? What misogynistic bullshit is this? OMG.

Hey Bill, you know why they don't teach Civics in school anymore? Republicans. It's Republican state legislatures that are increasingly driving the curriculum in their public schools. Pretty soon they won't teach history anymore either. It was the Bush administration who pushed STEM. It's not leftist woke liberals who took Civics courses out of schools. God. Do some research.

And no, schools are not teaching five years olds about sex. Jeez. I swear Bill gets all his information from Tucker Carlson.

And now he's defending Manchin and Sinema. 

I notice Bill keeps repeating this mantra that He hasn't changed, They've changed. Clearly he's got his back up because clearly people are calling him out for pushing the right's agenda for them. Instead of getting all defensive about it maybe he should stop and think about what the hell he's been doing.

Bill has changed...he's aged terribly. When I first started watching his show many years ago, he was witty, insightful, irreverant and at times, even compassionate. Now he's bitter, angry, resentful, hates everyone but mostly young people, for what reason I don't know. He's resembling Grandpa Simpson...and his politics have changed...he's leaning more far right with each passing day. Clearly he's watching more Fox News hosts like Tucker and Laura Ingraham. I know the old adage is that the older you get the more conservative you get but I didn't think that applied to people like Bill that had even hit 70 yet! I stopped watching Real Time three years ago...it was making me angry every time he went on one of his rants about Milliniels or Gen Xers...now he's going off on Gen Zers?

Clearly he has anger at the younger generations because he has no first hand experience in knowing anyone younger than 50. If he did, he would know the Gen Zers are the one of the most politically motivated young people since the 60's. They are the new face of activism because they have everything to lose...the environment, democracy, freedom of press, freedom to assemble, abortion and reproductive rights, voting rights, etc.etc...Things that Boomers took for granted are now in peril. And they know it. They made up a majority of the age group that organized and went to the streets to protest George Floyd's death. They use their computer skills and knowledge of how to use the Internet to mobilize and educate each other and then put all of that skill towards activism. Instead of constantly criticizing them, how about getting to know some Gen Zers first. Don't lump an entire generation into one giant garbage bag Bill...a majority of them are good students and are doing good work as volunteers and activists to save our country and planet. Not all of them are slackers that are cutting class to vape in the restrooms at school. 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Hedgehog2022

[arachne]

During Overtime, Bill continued to rant about Gen Z -- and then had to backtrack when he remembered some of them work for his show. "We don't hire assholes," he quickly said. 

[Hedgehog2022]

2 hours ago, arachne said:

During Overtime, Bill continued to rant about Gen Z -- and then had to backtrack when he remembered some of them work for his show. "We don't hire assholes," he quickly said. 

Maybe not but the Gen Z er's they hire have to work for an asshole.

[tessaray]

Bill doesn't like Millenials and Gen Z because they don't think he's funny. If they went to his shows he'd be praising them.

[MsTree]

This might be an UO here, but on average it's normal to move to the right as we age. It's a natural progression and has been that way for as long as I can remember, so why fault Bill for doing what many continue to do as they get older? I mean seriously, he's not getting any younger. 

[Hedgehog2022]

14 hours ago, MsTree said:

This might be an UO here, but on average it's normal to move to the right as we age. It's a natural progression and has been that way for as long as I can remember, so why fault Bill for doing what many continue to do as they get older? I mean seriously, he's not getting any younger. 

I'm older than Bill and I don't hate Gen Zers, Milliniels or Gen xers...Because I have children that are Milliniels and Gen Xers...also I have neighbors and friends with Gen Zers. I interact with these young people on almost a daily basis...I don't see them as a threat or as people to mock and ridicule. Living in his Beverly Hills bubble keeps him close minded and cranky. 

[MsTree]

10 hours ago, Hedgehog2022 said:

I'm older than Bill and I don't hate Gen Zers, Milliniels or Gen xers...Because I have children that are Milliniels and Gen Xers...also I have neighbors and friends with Gen Zers. I interact with these young people on almost a daily basis...I don't see them as a threat or as people to mock and ridicule. Living in his Beverly Hills bubble keeps him close minded and cranky. 

I was speaking in general terms, and not about who he hates, which IMO is a personal problem 😉

[DXD526]

A real lackluster episode, IMO.

Doug Jones may have some good things to say, but he's about as dynamic as a sack of laundry.

Fran Liebowitz is 'on tour'? Bully for her. I wouldn't pay a dime to listen to her whine. 

[One Imaginary Girl]

First time I've watched in a while.  Did I hear Fran Lebowitz correctly that she thinks Americans aren't interested in the war in Ukraine?  That's just crazy talk--it gets huge coverage in the news, and at least in my neck of the woods, there are lots of benefit events, Ukrainian flags flying, and other shows of support.  It might be greater in Sweden because they're closer and more concerned about ripple effects.  On the other hand, I don't know anyone who gives a damn about the Johnny Depp-Amber Heard trial, but Bill seems to be weirdly way into it.

Edited May 2, 2022 by One Imaginary Girl

[izabella]

On 4/30/2022 at 10:08 AM, arachne said:

And I can't believe Bill has never heard of Orthodox Christianity!

Bill's world and worldview is extremely limited:  cancel culture, wokeness, and weed.  Clearly, he needed to pay more attention in history class when we all learned about The Great Schism which resulted in an Orthodox Church and a Catholic Church.

[izabella]

1 hour ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

First time I've watched in a while.  Did I hear Fran Lebowitz correctly that she thinks Americans aren't interested in the war in Ukraine?  That's just crazy talk--it gets huge coverage in the news, and at least in my neck of the woods, there are lots of benefit events, Ukrainian flags flying, and other shows of support.  It might be greater in Sweden because they're closer and more concerned about ripple effects.  On the other hand, I don't know anyone who gives a damn about the Johnny Depp-Amber Heard trial, but Bill seems to be weirdly way into it.

When Fran says Americans aren't interested in Ukraine, she means SHE isn't interested in Ukraine.  Do she and Bill realize there are lots of Jews in Ukraine?  Guess they aren't interested in what happens to them, either.

[Tiggertoo]

I have to admit that, although I know who Fran Leibowitz is, I have only heard her speak on this show.  Now, Bill seems to love her, but her appearances have done nothing for me.  Is she supposed to be funny, insightful, brilliant?  Whatever it is, I’m not seeing it.

I remain a fan of this show, even though Bill does annoy me sometimes.  Mostly, when he talks vaccines and masks.

[heatherchandler]

Isn't Fran a photographer?  A famous, sought-after photographer?  Or am I misremembering?  

[deirdra]

Just now, heatherchandler said:

Isn't Fran a photographer?  A famous, sought-after photographer?  Or am I misremembering?  

She's a writer known for her sardonic social commentary on American life as filtered through her New York City sensibilities and her association with many prominent figures of the 1970s and 1980s New York art scene.

[opus]

3 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

Isn't Fran a photographer?  A famous, sought-after photographer?  Or am I misremembering?  

You may be thinking of Annie Leibovitz.

[heatherchandler]

Just now, opus said:

You may be thinking of Annie Leibovitz.

Ahh yeah Annie.  During the interview I was waiting for Bill to ask her about taking photos.  

[iMonrey]

Quote

This might be an UO here, but on average it's normal to move to the right as we age. It's a natural progression and has been that way for as long as I can remember, so why fault Bill for doing what many continue to do as they get older

There is no empirical evidence to support the theory that people grow more politically conservative as they age. It's just something you hear so often you accept as conventional wisdom. Here is a link to a post by the University of Chicago Press Journals suggesting otherwise.

Regardless, this isn't about Bill growing more conservative. This is about regurgitating right wing talking point and characterizing Democrats as a whole based on isolated incidents and individuals. It's right out of the right wing media playbook and Bill is carrying the right wing's water for them. He's not having honest debate or discussion, he's just bitching about something as though it's a fact and if a panelist tries to reasonably counter him, Bill usually either shuts them down or dismisses them with a joke and moves onto something else. He's not interested in being challenged. That's not conservative, that's just being pig headed.

[Tachi Rocinante]

Fran isn't as funny as Bill and others think she is, and she shouldn't be commenting on anyone's fashion sense.

The final New Rules bit was eye-opening.

[MsTree]

11 hours ago, iMonrey said:

He's not having honest debate or discussion, he's just bitching about something as though it's a fact and if a panelist tries to reasonably counter him, Bill usually either shuts them down or dismisses them with a joke and moves onto something else. He's not interested in being challenged. That's not conservative, that's just being pig headed.

Sounds to me more like a celebrity affliction. Talking about those who aren't interested in being challenged, we could say the same Whoopi Goldberg or Sunny Hostin. God forbid you disagree with them. They will shut you down so fast, it'll make your head spin. And then their rant begins....

Edited May 3, 2022 by MsTree

[Victor the Crab]

5 hours ago, MsTree said:

Sounds to me more like a celebrity affliction. Talking about those who aren't interested in being challenged, we could say the same Whoopi Goldberg or Sunny Hostin. God forbid you disagree with them. They will shut you down so fast, it'll make your head spin. And then their rant begins....

But Bill takes it far, far further than the likes of either Goldberg or Hostin would ever go. He's the absolute fucking worst of the worst!

[sistermagpie]

7 hours ago, MsTree said:

Sounds to me more like a celebrity affliction. Talking about those who aren't interested in being challenged, we could say the same Whoopi Goldberg or Sunny Hostin. God forbid you disagree with them. They will shut you down so fast, it'll make your head spin. And then their rant begins....

 

2 hours ago, Victor the Crab said:

But Bill takes it far, far further than the likes of either Goldberg or Hostin would ever go. He's the absolute fucking worst of the worst!

I don't think it's got anything to do with celebrity. People have things that they believe, and when someone says something they think is wrong, they say so. "Disagree with them" is a vague term that could be referring to someone thinking Fall is a better season than summer or that certain people don't deserve civil rights. Plenty of opinions people already know they disagree with and don't need to hear it again or debate it. Whoopie, Sunny, Meghan McCain and Bill just have different issues they feel strongly about. In fact, ironically, it seems like one of Bill's issues is that we're wrong to not listen to everything right wing people have to say and not keep giving "woke" people any more of time to waste.

[Victor the Crab]

40 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

it seems like one of Bill's issues is that we're wrong to not listen to everything right wing people have to say and not keep giving "woke" people any more of time to waste.

After years of slamming Republicans and the right and mocking their supporters, Bill suddenly decides their batshit opinions are worth listening to. Another reason why Bill is someone who doesn't deserve to be taken seriously!

[MsTree]

13 hours ago, Victor the Crab said:

After years of slamming Republicans and the right and mocking their supporters, Bill suddenly decides their batshit opinions are worth listening to. Another reason why Bill is someone who doesn't deserve to be taken seriously!

But that's saying that Bill doesn't have the right to change his mind.... which sort of goes back to my original post. People change their opinions all the time. Doesn't matter if they've been preaching one thing for last 37 years. Whether it's older or wiser, or just seeing things from a different point of view, it happens. Doesn't always mean someone is being hypocritical. That's all I was saying.

[Victor the Crab]

6 hours ago, MsTree said:

But that's saying that Bill doesn't have the right to change his mind.... which sort of goes back to my original post. People change their opinions all the time. Doesn't matter if they've been preaching one thing for last 37 years. Whether it's older or wiser, or just seeing things from a different point of view, it happens. Doesn't always mean someone is being hypocritical. That's all I was saying.

But Bill can't handle change. He's always believed that his views were the right ones that need to be heeded by the public. That belief of his comes from behaving like a narcissistic bully for so long. He can't seem to get it into his thick head that society evolves and that there's been a growing intolerance to his style of "humor", which has been at times punching down at people who don't deserve it. Berkeley cancelling his gig had the effect on Bill the way 9/11 had on Dennis Miller. He's becoming more like those intolerant assholes on the right who are far more likely to attack those trying to help rather than those inflicting misery, which is why he went after Dr. Anthony Fauci, who's trying to get the country vaccinated against Covid, while praising Republican governors Ron DeSantis and Gregg Abbott over the way they've "handled" the situation, which was criminally poor.

Bill changed his mind because he's looking for a new audience that will be more appreciative of his brand of "humor". And that audience he's looking for tends to think the likes of Greg Gutfeld are "funny!"

[Shermie]

On 4/30/2022 at 11:47 AM, iMonrey said:

 

Oh God, not Fran Lebowitz. I'll never understand Bill's (or anyone else's) love for her. She's not funny, she's not insightful,

 

 

On 5/2/2022 at 1:39 PM, Tiggertoo said:

I have to admit that, although I know who Fran Leibowitz is, I have only heard her speak on this show.  Now, Bill seems to love her, but her appearances have done nothing for me.  Is she supposed to be funny, insightful, brilliant?  Whatever it is, I’m not seeing it.

This, and this. I’ve heard of her too but this show is the only time I’ve heard her speak. Frankly, I found her pretty snobby with all her comments about Indiana or whatever middle America place she went to. Apologies, my lady, for all the world not being New York City. 

On 5/1/2022 at 1:55 AM, MsTree said:

This might be an UO here, but on average it's normal to move to the right as we age. It's a natural progression and has been that way for as long as I can remember, so why fault Bill for doing what many continue to do as they get older? I mean seriously, he's not getting any younger. 

Well, nobody’s getting any younger so that’s not an excuse. I know many people and I’d say that most get more open-minded as they age based on life experience. It’s easy to think you’re so smart when you’re young and have all these ideas about the world, but then real world experience hits like a big punch of reality. I’d say those who get more conservative as they get older are already pretty conservative to start and they dig in their heels against change because that’s part of being a closed-minded fundie.

For Orthodox Easter, Bill shows an Easter Bunny in an Orthodox Jewish outfit? Oy. As mentioned above, he’s never heard of Orthodox Christians who celebrate Christmas and Easter later in the calendar? 

As for that tasteless Disney montage, how does he get away with using Disney characters and fonts and logos and such without getting sued? 

[RealHousewife]

5 hours ago, Victor the Crab said:

But Bill can't handle change. He's always believed that his views were the right ones that need to be heeded by the public. That belief of his comes from behaving like a narcissistic bully for so long. He can't seem to get it into his thick head that society evolves and that there's been a growing intolerance to his style of "humor", which has been at times punching down at people who don't deserve it. Berkeley cancelling his gig had the effect on Bill the way 9/11 had on Dennis Miller. He's becoming more like those intolerant assholes on the right who are far more likely to attack those trying to help rather than those inflicting misery, which is why he went after Dr. Anthony Fauci, who's trying to get the country vaccinated against Covid, while praising Republican governors Ron DeSantis and Gregg Abbott over the way they've "handled" the situation, which was criminally poor.

Bill changed his mind because he's looking for a new audience that will be more appreciative of his brand of "humor". And that audience he's looking for tends to think the likes of Greg Gutfeld are "funny!"

Bill used to take up for the poor and minorities much more than he has the last few years. (I'd go into some examples, but board rules.) As he got older he became more concerned about people like himself who have tremendous privilege but get backlash for jokes and whatnot. I get the issues with cancel culture and don't always disagree with him, but seriously, we have bigger problems in this world. 

I'm not sure what Bill's current audience is. He seems to antagonize the left lately, but he's said too much in the past for the right to embrace him with open arms. I appreciate someone who's not tribal, but I like someone who's most passionate about important issues. Cancel culture is personal for him as someone in show business and who does comedy, but it's just not that serious for the average Joe. They're concerned about getting a good job, paying bills, healthcare, cost of everything from gas to housing, etc. Those who also deal with different kinds of bigotry, are scared about their reproductive rights, really don't want to hear Bill whine about multimillionaire problems. 

[tessaray]

3 hours ago, Shermie said:

As for that tasteless Disney montage, how does he get away with using Disney characters and fonts and logos and such without getting sued? 

It's protected as satire.

[sistermagpie]

14 hours ago, MsTree said:

But that's saying that Bill doesn't have the right to change his mind.... which sort of goes back to my original post. People change their opinions all the time. Doesn't matter if they've been preaching one thing for last 37 years. Whether it's older or wiser, or just seeing things from a different point of view, it happens. Doesn't always mean someone is being hypocritical. That's all I was saying.

Of course, we should probably note that Bill claims that he *hasn't* changed at all, it's liberals that have changed. And there's probably some truth to that. He thinks being liberal means the hierarchies that seemed acceptable when he was younger--you support the Civil Rights Movement of the 60s, but trans people are just there for the jokes and white cis het guys are the definition of normal. He though that was supporting the idea of progressivism, but it was really just wanting to stop in a slightly different place than conservatives.

[iMonrey]

Quote

But that's saying that Bill doesn't have the right to change his mind.... which sort of goes back to my original post. People change their opinions all the time.

Certainly he has a right to change his mind, but as sistermagpie beat me to the punch about, Bill insists - INSISTS - he hasn't changed. THEY'VE changed. i.e. Democrats. 

IMO what's changed is his perception of Democrats. This idea that the party as a whole has become too politically correct was the basis (and title) of his first show on ABC. That was almost 30 years ago! What exactly changed? Now they're just too, too politically correct? There's always been a spectrum of centrists, moderates and liberals in the party. He's just drunk the Fox News kook-aid that the party is now in the thralls of the fringe left.

[MsTree]

10 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Certainly he has a right to change his mind, but as sistermagpie beat me to the punch about, Bill insists - INSISTS - he hasn't changed. THEY'VE changed. i.e. Democrats. 

IMO what's changed is his perception of Democrats. This idea that the party as a whole has become too politically correct was the basis (and title) of his first show on ABC. That was almost 30 years ago! What exactly changed? Now they're just too, too politically correct? There's always been a spectrum of centrists, moderates and liberals in the party. He's just drunk the Fox News kook-aid that the party is now in the thralls of the fringe left.

I have no idea what's going on in Bill's head, but as you said, it's his perception. Perhaps he perceives all the woke stuff and oversensitivity as being too PC. I don't know. Or perhaps the needle on his spectrum has moved out of alignment and has become more noticeable to those around him vs himself. As for the kook-aid, come on...we all know Bill is a toker, not a drinker 😉

[Caseysgirl]

Neither Fran Leibovitz or Bill Maher have ever had to get out of their personal bubbles for long enough to realize that you can look  at a younger generation as people who have new ideas that might not be all bad. Shows their age, and the fact that they are both single without children. They have never had to compromise their opinions because the people they surround themselves with are on their payroll.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Shows their age, and the fact that they are both single without children. They have never had to compromise their opinions because the people they surround themselves with are on their payroll.

This. Whatever Bill thinks he knows about millennials or Gen Z is based on something he heard, or something he saw on TV. He then makes the giant leap to decide every single person in that age group is like that.  

[TheGreenKnight]

On 5/3/2022 at 10:34 AM, Victor the Crab said:

After years of slamming Republicans and the right and mocking their supporters, Bill suddenly decides their batshit opinions are worth listening to. Another reason why Bill is someone who doesn't deserve to be taken seriously!

I don't watch Bill Maher regularly--he's never been someone I fully agreed with anyway, but I found him funny sometimes--and it's probably a good thing I don't watch all the time because having seen yesterday's episode and this one within a couple of days of each other, I agree Maher has changed significantly over the years and not for the better. Well, really, I'd say "changed" is a nice way of putting it. It's more like he's putrefied.