S20.E11: David Mamet; Nancy MacLean; David Leonhardt

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Interview:  David Mamet

Panel:  Nancy MacLean and David Leonhardt

Original air date 2022.04.08

[aghst]

Leonhart says masks don’t matter, that liberals who masked, there was a “performative” aspect. Or what conservative should call virtue signaling for people who want to project how wok they are.

Well news items, in the UK, EasyJet and British Air have canceled hundreds of flights in the last week or two because of staff being sick with Covid, BA.2.  In early and mid March, these airlines stopped requiring masking on one of her flights.

This week, LA County is seeing increase in Covid infections, including a breakout of 60 cases at a high school and other schools which had dropped mask mandates.

So far, hospitalizations and deaths haven’t increased as fast as cases compared to previous waves.  But recent studies showed potential for increased heart disease, diabetes and loss of brain volume as some of the potential long term issues from Covid that they’re still studying.

Maher cited the two scientists who quit the FDA over first boosters.  Yeah they had a different opinion and they talked up vaccine equity for the world, even though boosters didn’t prevent vaccine supplies from reaching places like Africa , where they have their own anti Vaxxers — Omicron came from Africa which had under 30% vaccination rate in November when it was discovered.

Well boosters saved millions of lives around the world and kept many millions more out of hospital in the Delta and Omicron waves so citing those scientists are not a good idea.  They’re probably not saying much these days since they were wrong on boosters.

So Bill wanted this NY times guy on because he’s also wrong on Covid but Bill can’t give up on his pet peeves.  Including the whole thing about people not reacting correctly to jokes, as he diagrammed the Chris Rock joke, which was at best okay, not very funny.

The correct reaction to jokes is to always laugh.🙄

[revbfc]

I think it’s adorable that Bill still thinks his opinions are relevant or constructive.

[tessaray]

Such a mixed bag. Bill actually pushed David Mamet (one of my favorite writers) on the Big Lie, so yay that he actually conceded the point but then ruined it with the Covid disinformation. Frustrating.

[iMonrey]

Wow, this was just Bill at his worst. Every pet peeve all rolled into one hour. Covid, cancel culture, wokeness. Did he say anything about his solar panels? I forget.

Five years ago the penis still meant something? WTF?

I'll never watch another David Mamet play. Not that I ever have before. I wondered what he was even doing on this show until I realized he was selling his new book. I can't stand whenever someone tries to say America is a Christian country because it was founded by Christians. That's like saying it's a white country because it was founded by white people. It's so offensive. And Bill was ineffective in pointing out the founding fathers were Deists since Mamet clearly had no idea what that meant and Bill just let it go.

Thank God for Nancy Maclain, she was the one voice of reason even if neither Bill nor David Leonhardt payed much attention to her.

And what on earth was Bill trying to say about pedophilia? That it was a legitimate criticism against the left? 

That final new rule. He actually had me right up until he mentioned Roseanne Barr. Roseanne was not on stage making a joke when she said Valerie Jarrett was a cross between the Muslim Brotherhood and Planet of the Apes. Go back to the chalk board and explain how that "joke" is funny, Bill. Kevin Hart is maybe a different story, but again I'd like to see Bill go back to the board and explain how it's "funny" to say someone's profile picture is a gay billboard for AIDS.  

[tessaray]

I think Bill was trying to say that sexual abuse of children is a real issue across all levels of society, which is true enough. There's no clever or entertaining way to say that, though.

I only go on Twitter when I must, so the idea that Elon Musk could force them to let some of the worst back on in the name of free speech is depressing. Not that I'd read them but the media coverage of the tweets was poisonous enough. 

It's always risky to watch an interview of one of your heroes because the odds are you'll be disillusioned.  I have a dozen books I'd grab if my house was on fire and David Mamet wrote one of them. It's hard to reconcile that mind and this walking example of what Fox News talking points can do to almost anyone. I did appreciate Bill attempting to push back when Mamet was obviously one of his heroes too.

[RealHousewife]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

That final new rule. He actually had me right up until he mentioned Roseanne Barr. Roseanne was not on stage making a joke when she said Valerie Jarrett was a cross between the Muslim Brotherhood and Planet of the Apes. Go back to the chalk board and explain how that "joke" is funny, Bill. Kevin Hart is maybe a different story, but again I'd like to see Bill go back to the board and explain how it's "funny" to say someone's profile picture is a gay billboard for AIDS.  

This drives me crazy about Bill. I don’t think he’s a bigot, but when things don’t hurt his straight white male feelings, he thinks they’re not racist or offensive. Ask black, brown, and Muslim people how they felt about what Roseanne tweeted. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

 Did he say anything about his solar panels? I forget.

Yep, he managed to sneak in a solar panel reference when he was going on and on about how much he pays in taxes.

[aghst]

BTW, those clips they showed of his special, seems so ponderous and preachy.

Seems like his previous special was several years ago and he wasn't that strident or asserting his hobby horses.

 

[The Solution]

Well that show was a train wreck.

David Mamet should be ashamed to express his views in public.

David Leonhardt is just a shame.

Nancy MacLean is basically right but doesn't present herself well.

Ironically, the one good thing was Bill's last New Rule. He didn't actually defend Roseanne's statement; he said she was crazy and didn't realize what she said was wrong and that he said that as a friend.

[bobbyjoe]

Quote

I'll never watch another David Mamet play. Not that I ever have before. I wondered what he was even doing on this show until I realized he was selling his new book.

You’re not missing much, and I say this as someone who is a big fan of Mamet’s early plays.  As you saw on Maher’s show, it’s like Mamet’s brains and talents fell out of his head a decade or so ago; I don’t know what happened.  

A few years ago I went to see one of Mamet’s new plays on Broadway— it starred Al Pacino, and I absolutely love Al Pacino.  Pacino did his best, but the play— phew!  It is literally the worst play I’ve ever seen on Broadway and I’ve seen a lot of Broadway plays.  And not because of politics— it was just really, really a big lazy mess.  A college freshman could have written a better play.  So I don’t know how Mamet ended up where he is today, but its like something thoroughly rotted his brain, and not just politically.

[DXD526]

If Mamet doesn't know what a Deist is (apparently he's never heard the word before), why should I listen to anything he has to say about religion? He's obviously a novice on the subject. 

Quote

It's always risky to watch an interview of one of your heroes because the odds are you'll be disillusioned.

As Hitchcock said on Brooklyn Nine-Nine, "Never meet your heroes. Marie Callender was a real bitch."

[iMonrey]

Quote

I think Bill was trying to say that sexual abuse of children is a real issue across all levels of society, which is true enough. There's no clever or entertaining way to say that, though.

He seemed to be making a connection between Q-Anon and Jeffrey Epstein, which I found bizarre and unhelpful. Epstein may have been associated with high-profile liberals like Clinton but he was also friends with Trump. 

[The Mighty Peanut]

That joke diagram wasn't about the slap or Will Smith or comedy. It was about fucking Berkeley. He has rich people ptsd.

[cali1981]

On 4/9/2022 at 1:09 AM, aghst said:

Leonhart says masks don’t matter, that liberals who masked, there was a “performative” aspect. Or what conservative should call virtue signaling for people who want to project how wok they are.

Well news items, in the UK, EasyJet and British Air have canceled hundreds of flights in the last week or two because of staff being sick with Covid, BA.2.  In early and mid March, these airlines stopped requiring masking on one of her flights.

This week, LA County is seeing increase in Covid infections, including a breakout of 60 cases at a high school and other schools which had dropped mask mandates.

So far, hospitalizations and deaths haven’t increased as fast as cases compared to previous waves.  But recent studies showed potential for increased heart disease, diabetes and loss of brain volume as some of the potential long term issues from Covid that they’re still studying.

Maher cited the two scientists who quit the FDA over first boosters.  Yeah they had a different opinion and they talked up vaccine equity for the world, even though boosters didn’t prevent vaccine supplies from reaching places like Africa , where they have their own anti Vaxxers — Omicron came from Africa which had under 30% vaccination rate in November when it was discovered.

Well boosters saved millions of lives around the world and kept many millions more out of hospital in the Delta and Omicron waves so citing those scientists are not a good idea.  They’re probably not saying much these days since they were wrong on boosters.

So Bill wanted this NY times guy on because he’s also wrong on Covid but Bill can’t give up on his pet peeves.  Including the whole thing about people not reacting correctly to jokes, as he diagrammed the Chris Rock joke, which was at best okay, not very funny.

The correct reaction to jokes is to always laugh.🙄

After giving up on the show for months, I did watch last week's and found it to be very good but this Friday's show, not so much. Bill telling us about all of the good that Ivermectin had done over the years was blah. Sure when it's used appropriately not to treat Covid pateints Bill.

Leonhart's comments about masks being "performative" were downright stupid and offensive.  Maybe Dave hadn't seen the reporting on the annual Gridiron Dinner in Washington DC last week.  It is now considered to be a super spreader event.  According to reports few of the guests were wearing masks and even though they were all vaccinated over 50 people, including some very  powerful dignitaries, have now tested positive.  So let's see, what possibly could have been the cause of that?  Oh, I don't know, maybe no masks and breathing in each other's faces perhaps? For people to still not understand that the vaccines are designed to prevent serious illness if you get infected and not necessarily prevent infection, astounds me.  Omicron BA2 is almost as contagious as the measles, the most contagious virus known.  With the relaxation of the basic Covid safety measures all around the country, I just hope that we don't pay for that soon.

Edited April 10, 2022 by cali1981

[Tachi Rocinante]

Mamet really went off the rails on Fox.  Wow.

[heatherchandler]

On 4/9/2022 at 12:10 PM, tessaray said:

 

I only go on Twitter when I must, so the idea that Elon Musk could force them to let some of the worst back on in the name of free speech is depressing. Not that I'd read them but the media coverage of the tweets was poisonous enough. 

 

I think any blocking of free speech is depressing.  

[izabella]

"Free speech" is a right in the Constitution which says the government cannot punish you for speaking.  It is not in any way, shape or form a right that you can speak anywhere, anytime, in any medium, and say anything you want without any consequences, condemnation or criticism.  Some of those consequences might be private entities (Twitter, Berkeley, or tv shows) deciding they don't want you to use their forum to speak, and that has nothing to do with blocking "free speech" but is instead about consequences for violations of the private entity's terms of service, policies or rules. 

People blocked from Twitter have a million other options and opportunities to speak elsewhere, just like they did before Twitter existed not so long ago.  If they don't like any of those other places, then they should have paid attention the first few times they were warned that they were violating Twitter's terms of service.

Edited April 11, 2022 by izabella

[Starchild]

Exactly right. Attacking your "right to free speech on Twitter" would happen if the government made a law that you are not allowed to say certain things on Twitter. And that hasn't happened. Amazing how few "intelligent" people don't get the distinction.

On a slight tangent, has anyone seen the Bill's Club Random show? I've only seen a couple of clips for it to be clear to me that watching two people who are high try to talk to each other is not very entertaining if you are not also high lol.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Exactly right. Attacking your "right to free speech on Twitter" would happen if the government made a law that you are not allowed to say certain things on Twitter. And that hasn't happened. Amazing how few "intelligent" people don't get the distinction.

Twitter banning someone for violating company policy is no different than a store requiring shirt and shoes for service.

Quote

On a slight tangent, has anyone seen the Bill's Club Random show?

I listened to the one with William Shatner. (Don't judge.) Bill was drinking and smoking non-stop through the whole thing. I don't know if he was smoking pot or clove cigarettes - he said the latter but I wasn't sure if he was joking or not. But he was lighting up one after another. 

During Overtime last week Bill was trying to ask why Trump had not been indicted for any of the various crimes we already know about, but he was stumbling over his words and had trouble articulating what he was trying to say. I'm starting to think his brain is so pot-addled at this point he's in a serious mental decline.

[heatherchandler]

On 4/11/2022 at 3:16 PM, izabella said:

"Free speech" is a right in the Constitution which says the government cannot punish you for speaking.  It is not in any way, shape or form a right that you can speak anywhere, anytime, in any medium, and say anything you want without any consequences, condemnation or criticism.  Some of those consequences might be private entities (Twitter, Berkeley, or tv shows) deciding they don't want you to use their forum to speak, and that has nothing to do with blocking "free speech" but is instead about consequences for violations of the private entity's terms of service, policies or rules. 

People blocked from Twitter have a million other options and opportunities to speak elsewhere, just like they did before Twitter existed not so long ago.  If they don't like any of those other places, then they should have paid attention the first few times they were warned that they were violating Twitter's terms of service.

I know.  I didn't say anything about the Constitution.  

I think any blocking of free speech is depressing.  

[heatherchandler]

2 hours ago, Starchild said:

Exactly right. Attacking your "right to free speech on Twitter" would happen if the government made a law that you are not allowed to say certain things on Twitter. And that hasn't happened. Amazing how few "intelligent" people don't get the distinction.

 

We all get the distinction.

Twitter can do whatever they want, and I didn't say anything about the government.  If Musk were to allow anyone to comment, bringing "free speech" to Twitter, people are upset by this?  That is what I find depressing.

[Welshman in Ca]

3 hours ago, Starchild said:

Exactly right. Attacking your "right to free speech on Twitter" would happen if the government made a law that you are not allowed to say certain things on Twitter. And that hasn't happened. Amazing how few "intelligent" people don't get the distinction.

On a slight tangent, has anyone seen the Bill's Club Random show? I've only seen a couple of clips for it to be clear to me that watching two people who are high try to talk to each other is not very entertaining if you are not also high lol.

 

Oh you would definitely need to be high as well in which case most things are fucking hysterical.

[Pete Martell]

I saw a clip going around with  David Mamet, which seemed to be about teachers being sexual predators. I briefly convinced myself it was someone else with the same name until I saw the comments here.  Oof. 

If there ever actually was cancel culture,  he sure as hell doesn't seem to be suffering from it. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Pete Martell

[Tara]

Bill also defended Kathy Giffin’s decapitated Trump head in his free speech spiel. His point was if this country starts believing free speech only goes one way, it is no longer free speech.

I never heard David Mamet speak before, but I thought he was intelligent and clear-headed, especially for someone in the entertainment business, as most of them are getting more and more pea-brained by the second. 

Once again I applaud Bill for not kowtowing the left, and for giving his honest views without fear of losing followers who disagree with him. 

[Welshman in Ca]

On 4/13/2022 at 1:43 AM, Pete Martell said:

I saw a clip going around with  David Mamet, which seemed to be about teachers being sexual predators. I briefly convinced myself it was someone else with the same name until I saw the comments here.  Oof. 

If there ever actually was cancel culture,  he sure as hell doesn't seem to be suffering from it. 

I think people actually need to know who you are to be cancelled and I'm sure most have never heard of him or his ramblings.