S06.E05: Give Me Liberty

[Athena]

Quote

Claire and Jamie experience the rising tensions in the colonies when they attend a Loyalist event in Wilmington in honor of the Scottish heroine Flora MacDonald.

Reminder: The is the book talk thread. This may include spoilers for ALL the books. If you wish to remain unspoiled for any of the books, please leave now and head to the No Book Talk episode thread.

[GHScorpiosRule]

OMGEEEE!!!  David Berry is back as Lord John!!! Even though I’m not as fond of buik Lord John, I adore David Berry!

And EEWWW! EWWW! The show is going there with Malva!!!🤢🤢🤢🤢

I really, really did not WANT nor need to see that whiny weak Charles “Mark me” Stuart.

Was that who I thought it was in the cell at the end?

And can they just STOP with the ether addiction story?!🤬🤬🤬 and making Jamie look less and less attractive???🤬🤬🤬

Edited April 3, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[LoveLeigh]

59 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Was that who I thought it was in the cell at the end?

Who? They played The Bridge on the River Kwai theme.... 

And the green pill?
 

[all fall down]

49 minutes ago, LoveLeigh said:

Who? They played The Bridge on the River Kwai theme.... 

And the green pill?
 

It was the emerald stolen from Flora's necklace. She said she had the man arrested. 

I believe that was Wendigo Donner in the cell. In episode 5.12 he told Claire he was from the future and was trying to get back but needed a gem. 

Edited April 3, 2022 by christine falls

[NeenerNeener]

4 hours ago, christine falls said:

I believe that was Wendigo Donner in the cell. In episode 5.12 he told Claire he was from the future and was trying to get back but needed a gem. 

I thought they killed all the guys who abducted Claire; I guess I was wrong. 

I could do without ever seeing whiny less-than-Bonnie Prince Charlie again, but the theme song sung all in Gaelic was lovely.

[Quickbeam]

David Berry for the win. Those eyes! 

[GHScorpiosRule]

36 minutes ago, Quickbeam said:

David Berry for the win. Those eyes! 

Did we know he was back? I swear I don’t recall reading anything in the media thread.

I’m glad that scene with Roger and Bree was a whole lotta nothing-preview monkeys at work again.

And really? People would believe Malva, who’s only been here for a hot minute over Roger? Oh, wait. I forgot how people were already talking about how much time he was spending fixing Amy’s hearth. While he finally got a clue and put that Henderson to finish work, he should have refused dinner.

Jumping into the shallow pool (and @WatchrTina back me up!) Jamie, along with Claire, are written as still being verra hawt and still having thick long hair, and Claire looks a lot younger. Sae far, the show is being true to Claire, but no’ Jamie! 😒😒

Can someone refresh my memory as I burned through the buiks, but do Fergus and Marsali disappear until what happens with Henri-Christian? I’m wondering how the show will handle that next season, I think?

Can’t believe there are only three more episodes left!

[nodorothyparker]

So I snorted at Claire basically hooking Jocasta up to smoke some colonial pot for her likely glaucoma. But seriously, Claire? You were going to gas yourself again at a public event? I'm sure no one would notice one of the guests out cold in the grass or that you'd even think that safe. I'm not that bothered by the self medicating plot as much as I am about how sloppy and careless it requires Claire to be when that's not her character.

Good reintroduction to Wendigo Donner/reminder that he wasn't among the dead after last season's Mother's Day rapefest. Curious though that the authorities managed to nab him for stealing the emerald from Flora MacDonald but then just ... let him keep it when they locked him up?

Happy to see Lord John again. Last I read, he had said he wasn't going to be on the show anymore, so that was a nice surprise knowing how much storyline the character has in the next couple of books. Sure, some of Jamie's speechifying was a little overwrought with what the writers clearly meant to be revolutionary fervor, but he did a nice job of reminding John and the audience that just because he's been a good boy and more or less followed all the rules since his release doesn't mean he doesn't have some very real feelings about everything his last run-in with the British crown cost him. You could almost see him screaming in those scenes "I'm NOT English, remember? I didn't get a choice about that." Did laugh at John dismissively asking just what the colonists even have to complain about, paying a few taxes? It perfectly embodied his book counterpart waving off the Declaration of Independence as a complete bit of ridiculousness that no one in British power could possibly be expected to take seriously.

Sigh. Malva is gonna Malva. But like every other season the show has done, I'm now mentally counting down the episodes left against how much of that story there is to tell and preparing myself for a complete speed read through the next several plot points after what has thus far been a fairly leisurely paced season. Jamie's conversation with slave girl Mary laid the groundwork for the French gold story, so I guess that's going to be shoehorned in there too.

[GHScorpiosRule]

On 4/3/2022 at 2:29 PM, nodorothyparker said:

Happy to see Lord John again. Last I read, he had said he wasn't going to be on the show anymore, so that was a nice surprise knowing how much storyline the character has in the next couple of books

Exactly! I wasn’t looking forward to a recast. Now I’m hoping they’ll be able to get Laura Donnelly to reprise her role as Jenny. One can hope!

With only three episodes left, I wonder if they’ll skip over and not even mention Allan and Malva’s “relationship” or even that Wee Ian had boinked her. Or if that will be exposition when Malva accuses Jamie.😒🤬🤢

I’m hoping they’ll deviate and not shave Claire bald, and end her ether sniffing. That Jamie is completely clueless about what’s going on with her doesn’t sit well with me. I know I’m sounding like a broken record, but Jamie is in a perfect position to know what she’s going through. Show deviated from the buik and wrote Jamie’s PTSD over it and nightmares that stopped him from making love with Claire in season two.

Edited April 4, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[nodorothyparker]

IIRC, all of Malva's extracurriculars in the book were basically exposition that came up after she started throwing accusations around. Showing her with the guy in the church in this episode lays the groundwork to reveal that she's been getting around for awhile.

4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

That Jamie is completely clueless about what’s going on with her doesn’t sit well with me.

This is the same guy who was so attuned to her that he figured out she was pregnant with Bree before she did. On a freaking battlefield he was trying to head off six ways from Sunday. While also finding time to kill his uncle. I know Jamie's got a lot of balls in the air, but really. He hasn't noticed anything odd with her?

[jqdeco]

I understand wanting to show Claire go through PTSD and even though I totally disagree with the ether sniffing, I can live with it. However, ether is very flammable and, bringing it to River Run in her doctor bag would never happen.  Aside from it being stupid of her to intentionally pas out during a party, she could have blown up everything to boot.  Otherwise it was an ok episode.

[NeenerNeener]

I really miss those 10 minute segments with the producers after each episode where they discussed why they chose to tell that particular story that way. I wonder why they didn't do any for this season.

[GHScorpiosRule]

13 minutes ago, NeenerNeener said:

I really miss those 10 minute segments with the producers after each episode where they discussed why they chose to tell that particular story that way. I wonder why they didn't do any for this season.

They have. I think it becomes available after the official airing of the episodes. I know we had one for the premiere.

[Eureka]

9 hours ago, Quickbeam said:

David Berry for the win. Those eyes! 

I thought it was announced some time ago that he had left the show. Or did I imagine that? Nice to see him again in any case.

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 minutes ago, Eureka said:

I thought it was announced some time ago that he had left the show. Or did I imagine that? Nice to see him again in any case.

No, you didn’t imagine it. He had announced he was leaving two years ago. That’s why I was so happy to see him back! I thought he only showed up in the credits because they showed him in the previouslies.

[SoTheresThat]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

They have. I think it becomes available after the official airing of the episodes. I know we had one for the premiere.

Where is this available?  Is it a podcast or a video?  Thanks.

[Haleth]

Malva, you sick, evil liar. Ugh.

Bree invents indoor plumbing because of course she can.

The French gold gets a shout out.

Loved the theme song in Gaelic.  Just lovely.

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Haleth

[GHScorpiosRule]

59 minutes ago, SoTheresThat said:

Where is this available?  Is it a podcast or a video?  Thanks.

It’s a video. I believe it airs after the end credits of the official episode-later tonight. There is a tag that warns viewers that there will be discussion of the episode which will have spoiler information, etc. Even rewatching earlier seasons on the app, there were the videos with Ron, Matthew, Maril, and other writers. I haven’t checked to see if this week’s or rather episodes 2-5 are up. I know another poster had posted the video of the season premiere.

ETA: may show up after 10 p.m.

Edited April 4, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[Noneofyourbusiness]

7 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Good reintroduction to Wendigo Donner/reminder that he wasn't among the dead after last season's Mother's Day rapefest. Curious though that the authorities managed to nab him for stealing the emerald from Flora MacDonald but then just ... let him keep it when they locked him up?

Flora said, "They failed to find it on the thief." That does happen.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

14 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

I thought they killed all the guys who abducted Claire; I guess I was wrong.

No, Wendigo ran off. Claire asked Jamie afterwards if there was "an Indian with wavy hair" among the dead, and he said no.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Noneofyourbusiness

[AuxArx]

Where did Malva get the pocket knife? Did they make those in the 1700s?

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, AuxArx said:

Where did Malva get the pocket knife? Did they make those in the 1700s?

She probably stole it from Claire’s medical bag!

[Noneofyourbusiness]

2 hours ago, AuxArx said:

Where did Malva get the pocket knife? Did they make those in the 1700s?

Apparently yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocketknife

[Haleth]

Claire, forget the ether.  If you need to relax try some of the longbottom leaf you gave Jocasta.  (I wanted to see all three of them passing around the pipe.)

I liked Jamie's speech to the Sons reminding them that liberty means accepting that people have a right to differing opinions.

Are there 6 or 8 episodes this season?  I was in a panic thinking next week was the season finale.  8, right?

Edited April 4, 2022 by Haleth

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

Are there 6 or 8 episodes this season? 

There are 8 episodes this season because of the pandemic. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

3 hours ago, Haleth said:

Are there 6 or 8 episodes this season?  I was in a panic thinking next week was the season finale.  8, right?

As Scorpios said, 8. But next season there will be 16.

[CountryGirl]

I was so very happy to see LJG again. He really does bring the pretty (not that Jamie doesn't, but YKWIM).

I haven't read this far in the books, but I wasn't surprised to see them on opposite sides of the Revolution.

Malva is something. OTOH, I do feel for her as she's obviously had a very messed-up childhood with a father who resents her and punishes her for his wife's affair. But she is taking it much too far. 

The season has dragged a bit for me, although the looming war, Fergus' struggles, and Ian's backstory (finally) have helped bring momentum, but nothing like when I sat straight up at the final shot and that 20th century whistling. I connected the dots earlier this morning and obviously have confirmation it's Wendigo from reading here. It will be interesting to see where the story goes next.

[SassAndSnacks]

My wee keaks as I watched the Show - 

- Wow, I really loved the show opening with BPC and Flora MacDonald. Mark me! I haven't been such a fan of theme song this year, but I thought this non-duet version was gorgeous and the imagery was stunning.  Bravo, Show.  

- I still think the actual filming of the show is off and feels a bit Made-For-TV-Movie-Ish, but I'm living with it, ye ken? 

- "Stephen Bonnet's Bollocks."  Ok, Show.  Thanks for the fan service.  (Rolls Eyes)

- Auntie J toking up?  Yass, girl?  (Or would that be 'Yasss, Lasss?')  Mostly loved that whole scene, but I could have done without the Versailles flashback.  Blech.  Must we brutalize Claire in every episode? I get that we needed to see that she was triggered again, but whyyyyyyyyyyy?

- Thought the frequent exposition that Fergus is now a printer was a bit much.  As simple scene of Jamie reading a letter from him would have sufficed.  That subplot felt really shoehorned.  

- I'm pretty sure they are just trolling us with Jamie's hair, right?  They know it's bad, and they know we've been bitching about it for years.  But now it must be like an inside joke there or something, right?  

- Malva.  JHRC.  There she is.  Are they replacing Bobby Higgins with Obediah Henderson?  That's a choice.  

- Mandy!  We're going to get Mandy!  She's my favorite Ridge Kid.  The conversation with Marsali and Bree gave me a catch in my throat.  I really enjoy the relationship between them, and I think that thread is much improved from the book.  Thinking about what happens to HC, and that he and Mandy will never pal around gives me the bad sighs.

- Wendigo Donner!  I actually liked the change from Yellow Submarine to the River Kwai march song.  It probably comes across clearer on the screen and they wouldn't have to pay massive royalties to use it.  But if he already has a gem, what reason would he have to go to the Big House?  Hmmm?

- Really appreciate how they are meticulously setting up the chaos that will surely be the next few episodes.  I've been critical of the show over the last few seasons, but as I sat down to watch last night, I realized that I still REALLY look forward to watching.  I hate what happens to Claire throughout the Malva storyline, but I am looking forward to seeing the story play out on the screen. 

20 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

But like every other season the show has done, I'm now mentally counting down the episodes left against how much of that story there is to tell and preparing myself for a complete speed read through the next several plot points after what has thus far been a fairly leisurely paced season.

Same.  Sometimes I wish I didnt know what I know about the story. 

13 hours ago, Haleth said:

Bree invents indoor plumbing because of course she can.

This made me spit my coffee.  Why yes, she can.  She's perfect at all things!

 

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, SassAndSnacks said:

I'm pretty sure they are just trolling us with Jamie's hair, right?  They know it's bad, and they know we've been bitching about it for years.  But now it must be like an inside joke there or something, right?  

Aside from his yummy body, they are making Jamie look older than Claire, which, no. Aye, aye, 'tis only 4 or 5 years difference, but in the buiks, he's still HAWT. I'm such a masochist that I'm watching this season and then going back tae season one. Oh, such wonderful hair! Well, except in "The Wedding" that was some 80s blow dry nonsense. Jamie hasna hit 50 yet, or close to it, so I still say his hair should be darker. And that it's always, even when sleeping, tied up in that ridonkulous queue/tail drives me batty.

Aye, aye, I ken I'm being shallow, but 'tis JAMMF, DAMMIT!

[CountryGirl]

9 minutes ago, SassAndSnacks said:

- "Stephen Bonnet's Bollocks."  Ok, Show.  Thanks for the fan service.  (Rolls Eyes)

- Mandy!  We're going to get Mandy!  She's my favorite Ridge Kid.  The conversation with Marsali and Bree gave me a catch in my throat.  I really enjoy the relationship between them, and I think that thread is much improved from the book.  Thinking about what happens to HC, and that he and Mandy will never pal around gives me the bad sighs.

 

 

 

I rolled my eyes, too. I mean, really?

I love the relationship between Marsali and Bree as well. I really hope Marsali and Fergus and family being off the Ridge is not permanent. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just now, CountryGirl said:

I love the relationship between Marsali and Bree as well. I really hope Marsali and Fergus and family being off the Ridge is not permanent. 

I don't think it is. Don't they return to the Ridge

after Henri-Christian's death and the fire?

I've only read the buik that this season is based on, and I can't remember what I put under the spoiler tags. Maybe someone who's more familiar can confirm?

And I will say that the return of David Berry was THE BEST kept sekrit of the season! Unless that announcement he was leaving was a fake-aroo?

[SassAndSnacks]

15 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Aye, aye, I ken I'm being shallow, but 'tis JAMMF, DAMMIT!

I mean, they made such a freaking big deal in the early seasons about Cait's costuming and that it couldn't be completely authentic to the time because she still needed to look attractive by modern standards (ie thin so fewer petticoats and smaller bum roll). JAMMF's hair is not attractive by any freaking standards.

Neither one of them looks the age they are supposed to be, so we are already hand-waving appearances here.  Why not just let them look like their natural, hot-ass selves?  

If there's a Team Shallow, I'm on it, dammit!

[GHScorpiosRule]

17 minutes ago, SassAndSnacks said:

Neither one of them looks the age they are supposed to be, so we are already hand-waving appearances here.  Why not just let them look like their natural, hot-ass selves?  

Exactly! Plus, I think it was in Dragonfly in Amber, the buik, that Gabaldon wrote that Claire looked 20 years younger than the 50 she was. Both have the Dick Clark Syndrome!

So I say Roberts and company, and the fookin' make-up people can follow the buiks! And give Sam some color! He's lookin' like a pasty ass white whale!

Edited April 4, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[Haleth]

1 hour ago, SassAndSnacks said:

Neither one of them looks the age they are supposed to be, so we are already hand-waving appearances here.  Why not just let them look like their natural, hot-ass selves?  

Not to mention her enormous baby bump!

[NeenerNeener]

21 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I think it becomes available after the official airing of the episodes. I know we had one for the premiere.

There aren't any producer segments available on the Starz app, and the only "extras" are the trailers for Season 5 and 6. Bummer.

[GHScorpiosRule]

36 minutes ago, NeenerNeener said:

There aren't any producer segments available on the Starz app, and the only "extras" are the trailers for Season 5 and 6. Bummer.

Yeah, the only ones available, and those are on YouTube, are for episodes 1, 2, and 4. I've emailed STARZ and every single person can't grasp what I'm asking about. They think I'm telling them I'm unable to watch the EPISODES. Morons.

I posted the after show in "Allegiance" and "Hour of the Wolf" for those that want to watch it.

[NeenerNeener]

4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I posted the after show in "Allegiance" and "Hour of the Wolf" for those that want to watch it.

Wow! Thank you!

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just now, NeenerNeener said:

Wow! Thank you!

You're welcome. It seems this season, in addition to having Roberts and whatever director they have, Sam, Cait, and John are providing insights. I honestly believe in "Temperance" we'll also have Cesar. If STARZ gets their shit together. One person told me to delete and reinstall my app. Like that's going to fix it. I sign in and log off each time! Plus, I pointed out to them, NONE of these extras are on the APP. If it's on via cable, I don't know. I do know that the app has all of these after shows for seasons 1-5.

[sas616]

23 hours ago, SassAndSnacks said:

I still think the actual filming of the show is off and feels a bit Made-For-TV-Movie-Ish, but I'm living with it, ye ken? 

Could be because of COVID restrictions.  Matt and Meril have talked about how difficult it was filming this season and those difficulties were one of the reasons the season was cut short.

 

[sas616]

23 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Jamie hasna hit 50 yet, or close to it,

Jamie IS 50 something at this point.   His 50th birthday was in Season 5.  Claire sang Happy Birthday to him the day he went to battle (Alamance).   Come to think of it, did Murtaugh die on Jamie's birthday?  Geez.

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 hours ago, sas616 said:

Jamie IS 50 something at this point.   His 50th birthday was in Season 5.  Claire sang Happy Birthday to him the day he went to battle (Alamance).   Come to think of it, did Murtaugh die on Jamie's birthday?  Geez.

Oh yeah! Well, just 50 then. Still, I maintain my point still stands! 

STARZ is so weird. They finally uploaded Inside the Episode for "Temperance", but the one for "Hour of the Wolf" was uploaded before, and that episode aired after "Temperance!"  Anyhoo, they informed me that this episode's hasn't been "published" yet, so hopefully by the weekend or next week.

I'm wondering if they'll all be made available in the app after the season ends.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Two videos!!!

 

And Inside Episode 5:

 

[Eureka]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Two videos!!!

 

And Inside Episode 5:

 

Thank you for finding these for us.

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 minutes ago, Eureka said:

Thank you for finding these for us.

I just kept bugging STARZ until they published them and gave me the link to their play list.

I’m hoping that by season’s end all of them will be available in the episodes “extras” or play after the episode like they do for seasons 1-5.

[shelen]

Jamie turns 53 years old in 1774.

[WatchrTina]

On 4/3/2022 at 1:29 PM, nodorothyparker said:

So I snorted at Claire basically hooking Jocasta up to smoke some colonial pot for her likely glaucoma. But seriously, Claire? You were going to gas yourself again at a public event?

Oh is THAT what they were trying to imply . . . that Claire was about to take a huff of ether from her hanky as a means of dealing with the stress of being at that party?  How would that even work?  Ether doesn't relax you, it knocks you unconscious.  That made NO sense.  

And I'm pretty sure the benefits of pot smoking as a treatment for Glaucoma was unknown in the 1940s.  Did that happen in the book or are the TV writers just free-styling?

 

On 4/3/2022 at 10:59 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Jumping into the shallow pool (and @WatchrTina back me up!) Jamie, along with Claire, are written as still being verra hawt and still having thick long hair, and Claire looks a lot younger. Sae far, the show is being true to Claire, but no’ Jamie! 😒😒

Uhhhh, are you trying to say that Jamie (Sam) does NOT look "verra hawt" in this episode?  Because I beg to differ.  (I certainly wouldn't kick him out of bed for eating crackers.)  :)

 

On 4/3/2022 at 1:29 PM, nodorothyparker said:

Good reintroduction to Wendigo Donner/reminder that he wasn't among the dead after last season's Mother's Day rapefest. Curious though that the authorities managed to nab him for stealing the emerald from Flora MacDonald but then just ... let him keep it when they locked him up?

Okay, this is fun because I had COMPLETELY forgotten about him.  But as for how he still has the emerald . . . I've got nothing.   In fact, if I'm NOW remembering correctly I think I scoffed at his managing to hang on to a gem in the book.  Let's just assume he has a wee secret pocket in his coat and the gem was small enough that it wasn't noticed during a pre-incarceration pat-down.  (Though if they DIDN'T find the emerald on him they must have arrested him for some other crime.)

 

On 4/3/2022 at 1:29 PM, nodorothyparker said:

Happy to see Lord John again. Last I read, he had said he wasn't going to be on the show anymore, so that was a nice surprise knowing how much storyline the character has in the next couple of books.

Yeah, that was an unexpected treat.  I wonder if the Covid-related delays on this show and/or David Berry's other gig made it possible for him to resume the role.

[Swampy]

2 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Uhhhh, are you trying to say that Jamie (Sam) does NOT look "verra hawt" in this episode?  Because I beg to differ.  (I certainly wouldn't kick him out of bed for eating crackers.)  :)

Same here :-)

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Uhhhh, are you trying to say that Jamie (Sam) does NOT look "verra hawt" in this episode?  Because I beg to differ.  (I certainly wouldn't kick him out of bed for eating crackers.)  :)

Nay. What I am saying is he could look more hawt, but that hideous wig isna doing him any favors; nor is him looking so pasty white.

I told ye I was wading in the deep, deep Shallow.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

15 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

(Though if they DIDN'T find the emerald on him they must have arrested him for some other crime.)

He stole the whole necklace to begin with. According to what Flora and her husband said, they arrested him for stealing the necklace but one of the emeralds was missing. They said, "they failed to find it on the thief". This is not unrealistic. Real thieves have fooled searches in real life.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Noneofyourbusiness

[WatchrTina]

The very talented Julia LeBlanc has posted another music video -- this one based on the teaser trailers that were released to promote season Six.  I just watched and almost everything used in this video has now been seen in an aired episode so it feels safe to post it here in the book talk forum for this episode.  Enjoy!  

BTW Julia says in her opening blurb that she doesn't want people taking her videos and posting to other websites but I THINK I've complied with her wishes by posting the link to her uploaded version on YouTube above.  As such, when the video plays here, it should trigger the counter for views on YouTube (right?).  At least, that is my intention.

Note, she's done a bunch of Outlander videos but she usually uses footage from multiple seasons so they don't fit very neatly into our episodic discussions.  But they're really good, so If you want to see them, look for her on YouTube.

Edited April 8, 2022 by WatchrTina