S06.E02: Allegiance

[Athena]

Quote

Jamie struggles with his first request as Indian Agent. Roger presides over an unusual funeral. Marsali gives birth. However, the joy is short lived when a discovery is made.

Reminder: The is the book talk thread. This may include spoilers for ALL the books. If you wish to remain unspoiled for any of the books, please leave now and head to the No Book Talk episode thread.

[GHScorpiosRule]

ROLLO!!!!!!!!

That’s all I have for now. Exhausted.

[areca]

Please, for the love of God, recast Brianna. 

Lots of great moments for book readers, some verbatim exchanges too, which were nice to see live acted.

 

 

[nodorothyparker]

Nice, Tom. Yeah, I guess I'm going to let you fix my hand because it's interfering with ... my ability to beat my kid.

There was a lot of table setting going on in this episode for this shortened season. I loved the inclusion of the almost funeral for the old lady and the appearance of the Sin Eater, which in addition to just being a fun bit of color and Scottish folklore from the book also did double duty of establishing the dour fisher folk's suspicions of Claire's "powers" that will come up again as the Malva story progresses. 

There's really no way for the Jamie as Indian agent story to not come off as paternalistic because that was essentially the job. I love when the show remembers that it's a show that features time travel and the foreknowledge that time travel provides, and I love that it's figuring so heavily in Jamie and then Ian trying to figure out what the best thing to do for the Cherokee is, knowing that they're pretty much longterm fucked either way. Brianna's answer to Ian's question was certainly nonspecific enough. As always, I can't help but think how utterly frustrating it must be for Jamie and Ian to have this bunch as the entire source of their information about future events. "Nope, sorry, never paid any attention to much of anything my other historian husband said." "Well, see, I was a historian in another country.  Can't tell you much about specifics here. I know we win though." 

So close to getting your shit together, Fergus. So close and then back to square one. I was having a hard time early on following what Marsali was trying to say about their domestic situation because I was too busy watching Claire for once keep her mouth shut when Marsali said she was cursed with her mother's temperament.

[theschnauzers]

If I got this right, the episode has Ian mention something that doesn’t happen in the books until Bees! 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I was also glad to see the “Grannie!” Funeral scene from the buik too. But I don’t remember if the scene with the Cherokee women were in there. It just made me cringe and is it written that every few seasons Jamie is going to find himself in these situations and get all horny, so when he returns home, the first order of business is to bang Claire? I mean I know and appreciate that they have a wonderful and active sex life, but come on.

And I guess Bree wasn’t smart enough to point out that Claire and Jamie tried to stop Culloden from happening-knowing the history, so Wee Ian trying to arm the Cherokees wouldn’t have saved them. 

I didn’t know one could tell that their child could be a dwarf when born. That baby looked normal, for the lack of a better word, to me. They couldn’t have used a doll that many soaps use to show Henri was different?

And this is a nitpick, but I really wish that the closed captioning would let the viewers know what was being said in Gaelic or French in ENGLISH, instead of showing the Gaelic and French words.

Great. Looks like Roberts and company are determined to make Claire an ether addict.😒😒😒

Tom Christie just oozes bitterness and jealousy, and I loathe him. But that look that Malva gave him when he couldn’t whip her…yeah, the accusations against Jamie will happen. I hope I’m wrong. With the ether subplot, they’ll probably have Claire knock too much back and nearly die. 

And on a purely shallow note, I hate that beard on Roger.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

13 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I didn’t know one could tell that their child could be a dwarf when born. That baby looked normal, for the lack of a better word, to me. They couldn’t have used a doll that many soaps use to show Henri was different?

Yes, they usually can. Like Tyrion Lannister; his family knew he was a dwarf when he was born.

Look again. It's in the shape of the head and the face.

[nodorothyparker]

48 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don’t remember if the scene with the Cherokee women were in there. It just made me cringe and is it written that every few seasons Jamie is going to find himself in these situations and get all horny, so when he returns home, the first order of business is to bang Claire? I mean I know and appreciate that they have a wonderful and active sex life, but come on.

It's just as cringey in the book while also feeling sort of like a fantasy trope about Native women. 

Roger's beard does seem to be taking on a life of its own. You'd think he'd dump it just to not further stand out for how out of place he is in this time as it's hardly fashionable for the period. I noticed this episode that Fergus also apparently got himself an anachronistically modern looking haircut while he was descending into drink.

[AheadofStraight]

7 hours ago, theschnauzers said:

If I got this right, the episode has Ian mention something that doesn’t happen in the books until Bees! 

Can you elaborate? I can't think of what you mean, specifically. 

[theschnauzers]

54 minutes ago, AheadofStraight said:

Can you elaborate? I can't think of what you mean, specifically. 

Mention of “baby”

[snowbryneich]

I think Ian is talking about Isabeau, the baby girl who died which started his and Emilys marital troubles and not Swiftest of Lizards of uncertain parentage who they seem more certain might be his in Bees. He speaks of his child in the past tense.

[snowbryneich]

I know they can't get kids actors to have the extraordinary (and convenient) family resemblances from the book but I think the funeral scene is the first time I've noticed how dark haired the current kid portraying jemmy is. They could have least cast a red head. 

I think the books explain the lack of knowledge about the revolutionary war in thst Claire never expected to end up in America, and while Roger wnd Brianna did they didn't expect to stay. It was warn Claire about the fire/fetch Brianna and go back to the future. Brianna knows more having gone through the American school susyen and having lived in Boston. I do think their lack of knowledge is believable based on British education system, I'm British and don't believe its ever been covered in the British school system, everything I know about the revolutionary war comes from Outlander and Hamilton. And i can't imagine the syllabus was broader when Claire and Roger were educated. Roger taught at Oxford which i doubt is anyone's first choice for studying American history. Brianna probably had more time to do research i think as she plays a long game on going back, packing her stuff and writing to Roger etc, but Roger is rushing because it's nearly a fire festival when he realises what she's done. (is it Halloween when he goes back through first time)

[Eureka]

19 minutes ago, snowbryneich said:

I know they can't get kids actors to have the extraordinary (and convenient) family resemblances from the book but I think the funeral scene is the first time I've noticed how dark haired the current kid portraying jemmy is. They could have least cast a red head. 

I think the books explain the lack of knowledge about the revolutionary war in thst Claire never expected to end up in America, and while Roger wnd Brianna did they didn't expect to stay. It was warn Claire about the fire/fetch Brianna and go back to the future. Brianna knows more having gone through the American school susyen and having lived in Boston. I do think their lack of knowledge is believable based on British education system, I'm British and don't believe its ever been covered in the British school system, everything I know about the revolutionary war comes from Outlander and Hamilton. And i can't imagine the syllabus was broader when Claire and Roger were educated. Roger taught at Oxford which i doubt is anyone's first choice for studying American history. Brianna probably had more time to do research i think as she plays a long game on going back, packing her stuff and writing to Roger etc, but Roger is rushing because it's nearly a fire festival when he realises what she's done. (is it Halloween when he goes back through first time)

I don’t think that was Jemmy, I think that was Germain.

[Haleth]

That was Germain. Jemmy is blonde.  (Isn’t he a redhead in the books?)

[TOWTooMuchTV]

57 minutes ago, Eureka said:

I don’t think that was Jemmy, I think that was Germain.

I believe the little blonde boy seen here and there was Germain, the one at the funeral I thought was Jemmy (and I had the same thought about the red hair). Though the dark haired boy looked bigger/older than the blonde which wouldn't be right. 

[Scarlett45]

56 minutes ago, Eureka said:

I don’t think that was Jemmy, I think that was Germain.

I thought that was Germain as well. 
 

9 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I didn’t know one could tell that their child could be a dwarf when born. That baby looked normal, for the lack of a better word, to me. They couldn’t have used a doll that many soaps use to show Henri was different?

Yes, the baby has achondroplasia dwarfism, like Peter Dinklage (Tyrion on Game of Thrones) or Amy Roloff (Little People Big World). There are many kinds (obviously) but that type is one of the most common and is visible at birth, just like @Noneofyourbusiness said below. 
 

9 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Yes, they usually can. Like Tyrion Lannister; his family knew he was a dwarf when he was born.

Look again. It's in the shape of the head and the face.

Yup. Also while all infants have small limbs relative to their bodies if you look you can tell the limbs are shorter. People with achondroplasia have typical length torsos and short limbs. 
 

Little Henri- Christian could grow up and be book keeper or a writer. Given his place among the leading family of the Ridge there will be a job for him of some type. But agricultural work likely no, and being male they wouldn’t teach him to do “women’s tasks”. 
 

Malva creeps me out, but I wouldn’t be mad if she slit Tom’s throat in his sleep. What was he beating her for?? She didn’t DO anything! And now he wants surgery so he can beat his daughter more efficiently?

[GHScorpiosRule]

11 minutes ago, TOWTooMuchTV said:

I believe the little blonde boy seen here and there was Germain, the one at the funeral I thought was Jemmy (and I had the same thought about the red hair). Though the dark haired boy looked bigger/older than the blonde which wouldn't be right. 

I checked IMDb and it was Germain who was in the funeral scenes, and he’s played by one actor, while Jem is played by twins.

[Scarlett45]

12 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

So close to getting your shit together, Fergus. So close and then back to square one. I was having a hard time early on following what Marsali was trying to say about their domestic situation because I was too busy watching Claire for once keep her mouth shut when Marsali said she was cursed with her mother's temperament.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. I don’t think Fergus would intentionally hurt Marsali (or the kids) but I could see him being drunk and her being angry, him grabbing her wrist and leaving a bad bruise given her condition (I really thought she was going to have pre-eclampsia and the baby would die). 
 

 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

2 hours ago, TOWTooMuchTV said:

I believe the little blonde boy seen here and there was Germain, the one at the funeral I thought was Jemmy (and I had the same thought about the red hair). Though the dark haired boy looked bigger/older than the blonde which wouldn't be right. 

Jemmy's always been blond in the show.

24 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. I don’t think Fergus would intentionally hurt Marsali (or the kids) but I could see him being drunk and her being angry, him grabbing her wrist and leaving a bad bruise given her condition

Yes, that's what she told Claire happened.

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Yes, that's what she told Claire happened.

At first she told Claire she fell. Fergus shouldn’t have been grabbing her or drinking, but I believe she lost her temper and got physical with him in anger first. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

At first she told Claire she fell. Fergus shouldn’t have been grabbing her or drinking, but I believe she lost her temper and got physical with him in anger first. 

When Claire asked for the really for sure real story, that's what Marsali said. So what you're saying is that you believe she told the truth the second time. Which is also more or less what happened in the book.

BTW, nice cats. The one on the viewer's left reminds me of my old cat Smokey.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

When Claire asked for the really for sure real story, that's what Marsali said. So what you're saying is that you believe she told the truth the second time. Which is also more or less what happened in the book.

Thank you. 

[snowbryneich]

3 hours ago, Haleth said:

That was Germain. Jemmy is blonde.  (Isn’t he a redhead in the books?)

Ah right. Jemmy is a red head in the book yes, and its Jemmy who tells Claire that Mrs Wilson isn't dead in the book so that's why I assumed it was Jemmy. If its Germain his hair is still wrong as he's got blond hair in the books which probably added to my confusion but they don't make a big deal of it like they do with Jemmy's looks. (Where him taking after Brianna and Jamie so strongly means it comes up repeatedly there is no clue to who actually fathered him, until there suddenly is, though I forget when that comes up)

[Haleth]

If there is still any confusion about which kid is which, watch the funeral scene again.  Claire calls the dark haired boy Germain and she can surely tell her grandkids apart (unless the ether is making her confused 😄).

That church/meeting house is way too big and well built for something that went up that fast in the wilderness.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Haleth

[ch1]

20 minutes ago, Haleth said:

That church/meeting house is way too big and well built for something that went up that fast in the wilderness.

Then it goes well with only in TV land big house.

[Haleth]

10 minutes ago, ch1 said:

Then it goes well with only in TV land big house.

Yeah, I remarked on that last week.  Must be Bree's magic skills.

[Pallas]

10 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

checked IMDb and it was Germain who was in the funeral scenes, and he’s played by one actor, while Jem is played by twins.

In the season 6 opening credits, there's an 18th-century-costumed blond toddler running through the woods while holding a carved wooden airplane: Jem, for sure. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

40 minutes ago, Pallas said:

In the season 6 opening credits, there's an 18th-century-costumed blond toddler running through the woods while holding a carved wooden airplane: Jem, for sure. 

Oh absolutely.

[Cdh20]

That episode was a booklovers dream, scenes just jumping straight out of the pages! Yes, against my better judgement I finally read ahead of the show. Droughtlander was soooooo long.

My hubby however was bored & scrolling on his phone, asking when the war will start? He’s going to be disappointed.  Although he made 2 on target predictions- Malva is going to cause trouble, & Claire is going to be called a witch AGAIN.
 

He was impressed that Bree invented something- he loves it when those women invent things- obviously more than her family. Roger saying “My wife is a genius” was a much needed relationship boost.
 

I am fine with Jamie bringing home his “arousal” to Claire! And give me more boss Jamie dressing down Tom. 
 

Star of the week goes to Lauren! 

[SassAndSnacks]

I'm commenting without reading anyone else's comments, so if I'm repetitive, I apologize.

This was a "good 'un."  Some high points - 

- Lauren. Lyle.  Lauren Freaking Lyle.  So much emotion of varying types and stages - anger, panic, desperation, humor, relief, love.  All of it.  She was incredible.  

- Claire's Lionel Brown flashbacks.  My goodness.  When she's at Marsali's and Marsali is telling her about Fergus' guilt, you can see Claire change immediately.  And then when she rushed back to her surgery and pulls out the ether with shaking hands...heartbreaking.  I wasn't onboard with the ether storyline last week, but I'm now convinced.  

- Jamie being a freaking boss Laird.  Don't eff with this man, people.  The scene with Jamie and Tom at the church when Jamie was telling Tom that it will be a "meeting house" and that all are welcome and that if he hears any talk of Claire being a witch there would be consequences, loved it.  When he walks away muttering to himself about windowpanes, I sniggered.  Such bad-ass dad energy.  Fantastic!  

- The funeral!!  I'm so pumped this was included because I really thought it would be cut.  Yay!

- And Roger.  Welcome to the show, BuikRoger.  It's about freaking time.  I'm so pleased that they are truly making him the second in command here.  It was overdue, but better late than never.  

- Brianna's matches.  Girl, I feel you.  Your womb isnt the most important thing about your body. You know it and I know it.  Use that brain, sister, but please, don't waste the matches by lighting them up all willy-nilly.  

- The Buggs.  Are we getting a French gold storyline?????  Methinks yes!! Arch is headed to River Run, y'all!!

- Malva's stare.  JHRC!  I got chills.  You can just see the maliciousness inside of her.  I don't love Malva AT ALL, but that look was tremendous.

- Jamie and Claire. "Ye think I dinna curse myself every day for what happened to you?"  Took the wind out of me.  Had I been standing, I would have collapsed on the floor.

- Jamie and Ian. "His allegiance is to them...And my allegiance is to him."  Collapsing again.  

Things I Didna Like So Much - 

- The Native American girls.  I'm just not a fan of this in the book or the show.  I get it, Jamie is a hot-ass piece and everyone, no matter the culture, background, age, orientation, whatever thinks so.  You dont need to beat me over the head with it.

- Henri-Christian.  I know this had to happen, but I was hoping it wouldn't happen.  This storyline is heartbreaking in a series made of heartbreaking storylines.  It makes me sad knowing what will happen to him, and I hope the show is able to stay away from the tropey-ness that the book brought to the story.  Fergus' reaction was so well played, though.  And when Claire hands the baby to Marsali, and she looks at him with such love, sigh...

- The labor inducement.  I know, it happens. But no, it was a no for me.  

- The grandeur of everything.  The stables, the house.  It's a little off-putting.  

 

Overall, such wonderful foreshadowing and dialogue straight from the Buik, which makes me a happy viewer.

[GHScorpiosRule]

On 3/14/2022 at 10:37 AM, SassAndSnacks said:

Malva's stare.  JHRC!  I got chills.  You can just see the maliciousness inside of her.  I don't love Malva AT ALL, but that look was tremendous.

Not me. Just dread because I ken wot's coming. Blech.

On 3/14/2022 at 10:37 AM, SassAndSnacks said:

Jamie and Claire. "Ye think I dinna curse myself every day for what happened to you?"  Took the wind out of me.  Had I been standing, I would have collapsed on the floor.

This and Jamie's own repeated rapes and torture and how Claire forced his recovery/stopped him from killing himself is why I dinna understand why Claire just won't talk tae Jamie aboot what's going on with her.

 

On 3/14/2022 at 10:37 AM, SassAndSnacks said:

The Native American girls.  I'm just not a fan of this in the book or the show.  I get it, Jamie is a hot-ass piece and everyone, no matter the culture, background, age, orientation, whatever thinks so.  You dont need to beat me over the head with it.

I HATED this. Only because I refuse to believe this would happen. I've seen and read so much about Native Americans and the different tribes. Forgive me, but that scene just made it seem like the Native women were from a brothel.

Edited March 17, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[SassAndSnacks]

53 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Not me. Just dread because I ken wot's coming. Blech.

Agree.  I should have specified that my chills were the bad chills, like BJR breathing down my neck chills as opposed to JAMMF telling me my brown hair is like water running over a burn chills.  

 

54 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I HATED this. Only because I refuse to believe this would happen. I've seen and read so much about Native Americans and the different tribes. Forgive me, but that scene just made it seem like the Native women were from a brothel.

Preach.  It is very cringey.  

[Atlanta]

In the book, doesn't Adso take off with that soldier's wig? Or is that later? I was so hoping it would happen. LOL

[theschnauzers]

It was nice to see both Adso and Rollo in this episode. I was surprised Rollo didn’t get to go on the visit to the Cherokee.

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 minutes ago, theschnauzers said:

I was surprised Rollo didn’t get to go on the visit to the Cherokee.

Or to "speak" or rather, bark or play.

Wot?

[Cdh20]

2 hours ago, SassAndSnacks said:

Agree.  I should have specified that my chills were the bad chills, like BJR breathing down my neck chills as opposed to JAMMF telling me my brown hair is like water running over a burn chills.  

 

Those are definitely different chills! 😉😂

[Cdh20]

4 hours ago, SassAndSnacks said:

 

I get it, Jamie is a hot-ass piece and everyone, no matter the culture, background, age, orientation, whatever thinks so.  You dont need to beat me over the head with it.

  

 

 

They do like to remind us, like we  forgot? Please! 

[SassAndSnacks]

1 hour ago, Atlanta said:

In the book, doesn't Adso take off with that soldier's wig?

Yes!  Adso terrorizes MacDonald.  The amuse bouche at the beginning gave us a wee peek with Adso curled up in a redcoat uniform.  Had to be MacDonald's.  I guess it would have been too hard to train a cat to run off with a wig.

 

[Haleth]

4 minutes ago, SassAndSnacks said:

Adso terrorizes MacDonald. 

Cats are like that. Torturing people that dislike them. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 hours ago, SassAndSnacks said:

I get it, Jamie is a hot-ass piece and everyone, no matter the culture, background, age, orientation, whatever thinks so.  You dont need to beat me over the head with it.

 

1 hour ago, Cdh20 said:

They do like to remind us, like we  forgot? Please! 

Agree! Those horrid wigs notwithstanding!

[Cdh20]

36 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

 

Agree! Those horrid wigs notwithstanding!

I chalk that up to hair in all period pieces is horrid! 

[ch1]

54 minutes ago, Cdh20 said:

I chalk that up to hair in all period pieces is horrid! 

I don’t know the show Versailles (Alexander Vlahos former show) had some pretty damn good wigs.

 

[areca]

On 3/14/2022 at 10:05 AM, Cdh20 said:

He was impressed that Bree invented something- he loves it when those women invent things- obviously more than her family. 

What'd she invent?

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, areca said:

What'd she invent?

Matches.

[areca]

23 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Matches.

She clearly stated she remembered how to make them theoretically.  Bree invents nothing in the entire series, she just brings knowledge backwards in time and adapts to the materials present. She is an engineer, not an inventor.

[Cdh20]

1 hour ago, areca said:

She clearly stated she remembered how to make them theoretically.  Bree invents nothing in the entire series, she just brings knowledge backwards in time and adapts to the materials present. She is an engineer, not an inventor.

Yes, that is the reality! Ok my hubby likes it when they figure out how to make things from the future! 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 3/14/2022 at 3:55 PM, Haleth said:

Cats are like that. Torturing people that dislike them. 

What he should do is torture Tom Christie.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Emily Thrace]

On 3/14/2022 at 11:14 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I HATED this. Only because I refuse to believe this would happen. I've seen and read so much about Native Americans and the different tribes. Forgive me, but that scene just made it seem like the Native women were from a brothel.

Yeah I side eyed that as well. On the one hand I have read enough about early contacts to know situations like that are not inaccurate. It was actually fairly common its why there is a Mackenzie way back on my mother's Cree side. On the other hand it really played in to the Nubile Savage trope and really wasn't necessary. It just felt like TPTB were trying to squeeze more tits into the runtime. So while I'm glad we are getting more of the Native story they still lack real agency or point of view. They couldn't even bother to dub the girls line so they could have a voice in the scene. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Apparently the app doesn’t have the “Inside the episode” for this season, so I’ve found them on YouTube: