S23.E15: Promising Young Gentlemen

[WendyCR72]

Airing March 10, 2022:

Quote

Carisi's niece helps a friend report a sexual assault. Benson investigates a college's secret society that preys on female students.

 

[Xeliou66]

I wonder if the college this is set at will be Hudson U? I will laugh if it is.

Don’t look forward to seeing Carisi’s niece again, I hated the first episode she was in and she was an annoying character. But the plot sounds like it could be interesting, I just hope it doesn’t turn into a St Olivia saves the world episode.

[CrystalBlue]

Skull and Bones meets #MeToo?  Does Carisi's niece have any credibility or are they trying to rehab the character*?

*So she will be more likeable when she attends the upcoming wedding of Miss Amanda Jones Rollins and Mr. Dominick "Sonny" Carisi, Jr.

[WendyCR72]

5 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

Skull and Bones meets #MeToo?  Does Carisi's niece have any credibility or are they trying to rehab the character*?

*So she will be more likeable when she attends the upcoming wedding of Miss Amanda Jones Rollins and Mr. Dominick "Sonny" Carisi, Jr.

The second line made me throw up, a little bit.

[faithie]

16 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Skull and Bones meets #MeToo?  Does Carisi's niece have any credibility or are they trying to rehab the character*?

*So she will be more likeable when she attends the upcoming wedding of Miss Amanda Jones Rollins and Mr. Dominick "Sonny" Carisi, Jr.

I generally hate SVU diversions into family/personal lives.  But I would love to see Carisi's mom and/or nonna come barging into his office, grab him by the ear and ask why he picked such a trainwreck for a girlfriend.   Ideally, this would occur right after Carisi finds out Rollins cheated on him while he was babysitting HER kids.

[Iguessnot]

5 hours ago, faithie said:

I generally hate SVU diversions into family/personal lives.  But I would love to see Carisi's mom and/or nonna come barging into his office, grab him by the ear and ask why he picked such a trainwreck for a girlfriend.   Ideally, this would occur right after Carisi finds out Rollins cheated on him while he was babysitting HER kids.

In the last episode when I thought they were going to kill off Amanda, the main thought running through my head was that Carisi was going to be stuck with those kids somehow.

[dttruman]

On 3/6/2022 at 8:11 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Don’t look forward to seeing Carisi’s niece again, I hated the first episode she was in and she was an annoying character. But the plot sounds like it could be interesting, I just hope it doesn’t turn into a St Olivia saves the world episode.

Will Carisi tell his niece to lie again? That kind of advice got her into trouble the last time they showed up in the same episode.

[dttruman]

On 3/6/2022 at 10:00 PM, CrystalBlue said:

*So she will be more likeable when she attends the upcoming wedding of Miss Amanda Jones Rollins and Mr. Dominick "Sonny" Carisi, Jr.

The way these writers and producers are, it's going to be Det. Amanda Rollins and Mr. Dominick "Sonny" Rollins, Jr.

[dttruman]

On 3/6/2022 at 8:11 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I wonder if the college this is set at will be Hudson U? I will laugh if it is.

I just heard them say they were at Hudson U., so I wonder now if they are going to refer to other episodes to show how other rapes have been handled at the University. I guess the administration hasn't been as tough on rape cases as they promised in some of the endings of other episodes dealing with Hudsin U

[Xeliou66]

So this week we’re back at good old Hudson U, the biggest cesspool known to humanity! It was kind of making me laugh all the references to Hudson and the over the top antics of the perps, it was vintage Hudson U elitism and sleaziness!

That being said, it was actually a pretty good episode. I didn’t like the Carisi personal stuff and I’m not a fan of his niece, but fortunately that was kept to a minimum. And while the storyline was pretty obvious from the start, it was still a solid investigation.

Fin was awesome as usual, he got some great lines in dealing with these douchebags. Rollins wasn’t annoying and was professional, she’s always better when paired with Fin. I liked how they brought in Parlato-Goldstein to assist, although Velasco was MIA, it’s kind of telling that they need more detectives. 

Carisi had some strong stuff, he was good in his role as the ADA and it’s always nice when he gets more focus, I do wish he had been the one to come up with the idea of charging rape as a hate crime instead of Parlato-Goldstein and Benson, but he was solid with what he got.

They didn’t shit on the DA’s office which was nice, but I’m sick of hearing the phrase “the 8th floor” I was hoping since the Mothership has established Jack is DA they would drop drama with Carisi’s bosses entirely, I guess Carisi’s direct supervisor is Maxwell, the bureau chief we’ve seen a couple of times, but it would’ve been nice if they had name dropped Jack instead, it would’ve made sense for Carisi to go to him directly and we all know Jack isn’t afraid to make new law to take down entitled scum. That would’ve improved the episode but right now it seems like the Mothership and SVU are in separate universes.

I can’t tell what they are doing with McGrath, are they trying to redeem him to an extent? He wasn’t a total ass in this one, but I can’t quite tell what they are doing with him, it’s just uneven writing, and I miss Dodds/Garland.

Overall this was decent despite the predictability, for the most part the writing was decent and the story progressed nicely and all of the characters were good, no one annoyed me. So one of the season’s better outings.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I LOVE that the show brought up rape of women being a hate crime.

Do you guys know you can follow Hudson U on Twitter?

It's OfficialHudsonU on Twitter.  I mean, I think it's a parody account not affiliated with the show, LOL.  It's funny!

Quote

Any similarities between Hudson University and a real university are coincidental. (And frightening) HudsonInfo@HudsonU.org

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[MaryHedwig]

"Mamas, don't let your babies go to Hudson U." Sing it, Willie.

 

[The Wild Sow]

Well, just singing that stupid song is evidence of the conspiracy - probably a hate crime, too.

[wknt3]

The Good:
Fin! Lots of great snark and interactions with the spoiled rich white kids. We needed some Velasco too, but I'll take what I can get.
Carisi. Good to see him getting lots to do without making him subordinate to Benson or a detective in all but name. And we got some good courtroom action!
It was nice to see them trying to do some comedic bits like with Carisi's mom and McGrath talking about his affect. I wish it was executed better, but it was nice to see them trying to lighten things up a bit.
The COTW. They managed to find a new spin on sexually based offenses, even if it was just because they have the option on Jason Biggs and are trying to use their story ideas for Hate Crimes (either to show it can work or because they have given up on it and have the outline for their SVU crossover in a drawer.)
The guest cast. Great as always, especially the employees who hated the club d-bags.
Rollins was largely in the background after the opening.

The Bad:
Velasco was MIA. Why are they wasting a good character and actor? Are they really at the point where even their young and cheap talent can only be half-time?
The legal side of the hate crime element was really underdeveloped. We really needed  more discussion of the problems and risks of the strategy. It was sort of mentioned and then never developed.
The sledgehammer of an ending. Between Benson's speechifying and the music swelling I nearly shut it off before the promo. I mean it's not like they were particularly subtle, or have been for the past 15 years or so, did they think we would miss the point?
Not liking that they are still pulling the 8th floor nonsense. And speaking of missed opportunities this would have been where a Jack McCoy crossover cameo would have been really great if they could have been bothered to actually explore the interesting and new legal issue they came up with.

Overall this was solid to pretty good. If I was the showrunner this is the episode I would have used to pair with the Mothership return, with a few tweaks (add Velasco and McCoy, cut some of the material with the Chief of D-Bags) to try to bring back some lapsed viewers. Not as good as the run before the break, or even the Mothership episode before it, but still above replacement level television and it wasn't a waste of time so it was better than the last couple episodes.

[dttruman]

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

They didn’t shit on the DA’s office which was nice, but I’m sick of hearing the phrase “the 8th floor” I was hoping since the Mothership has established Jack is DA they would drop drama with Carisi’s bosses entirely, I guess Carisi’s direct supervisor is Maxwell, the bureau chief we’ve seen a couple of times, but it would’ve been nice if they had name dropped Jack instead, it would’ve made sense for Carisi to go to him directly and we all know Jack isn’t afraid to make new law to take down entitled scum. That would’ve improved the episode but right now it seems like the Mothership and SVU are in separate universes.

Yeah, I would like to actually see a flowchart of hierarchy of the prosecutor's office for the city of New York, especially Manhattan. I am not exactly sure who is McCoy's boss and who Carisi's boss is now.

Edited March 11, 2022 by dttruman

[wknt3]

1 hour ago, dttruman said:

Yeah, I would like to actually see a flowchart of hierarchy of the prosecutor's office for the city of New York, especially Manhattan. I am not exactly sure who is McCoy's boss and who Carisi's boss is now.

McCoy's boss is easy - he is the District Attorney Of New York County (Manhattan) so he IS the boss. He answers to the voters as an independently elected official. Carisi's boss is both tougher and simpler. As @Xeliou66 said above it is most likely the Bureau Chief is his direct supervisor, although the series has always been unclear on how the org chart works with SVU ADAs. In reality though his boss is Olivia Benson like everyone else in the series from Patrolman to POTUS.

[Ohiopirate02]

44 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

McCoy's boss is easy - he is the District Attorney Of New York County (Manhattan) so he IS the boss. He answers to the voters as an independently elected official. Carisi's boss is both tougher and simpler. As @Xeliou66 said above it is most likely the Bureau Chief is his direct supervisor, although the series has always been unclear on how the org chart works with SVU ADAs. In reality though his boss is Olivia Benson like everyone else in the series from Patrolman to POTUS.

🤣🤣🤣

[preeya]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

So this week we’re back at good old Hudson U, the biggest cesspool known to humanity! It was kind of making me laugh all the references to Hudson and the over the top antics of the perps, it was vintage Hudson U elitism and sleaziness!

So tell me how the ultra racist, lily white institution winds up with a "person (female) of color" as the administrator? It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

When I first saw Olivia talking to her I made no connection to her and the school. I thought she was part of the DA's office.

Edited March 11, 2022 by preeya

[dttruman]

3 hours ago, preeya said:

So tell me how the ultra racist, lily white institution winds up with a "person (female) of color" as the administrator? It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

When I first saw Olivia talking to her I made no connection to her and the school. I thought she was part of the DA's office.

I wonder why they didn't add in that the parents of the boys in that club were going to have to face a lot of civil lawsuits? All I got out of it was that the club was shut down and but only if the boys wanted to graduate from Hudson or transfer in good standing. Or did I leave the room too early again?

[tennisgurl]

Good old Hudson university, higher educations favorite wretched hive of scum and villainy. Honestly, between the rapes, the binge drinking, the violent hazing, and half the grad students moonlighting as strippers, its amazing that anyone actually manages to get to class. The whole place should have been shut down, burned to the ground, and had the ground it was built on salted years ago, but it just keeps on keeping on. The episode was alright, it wasn't as lame as I thought it would be, the hate crime aspect was the most interesting idea, but it was painfully predictable, I knew basically everything that was going to happen just reading the episode description. We have our evil rich white frat boys (or close enough) who are so evil they literally sing songs about how much they love rape, the school trying to cover its ass, tons of lectures of Saint Olivia, it went exactly the way I expected. Even Olivia said something like "yeah we all know this one." 

To be fair, it really wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Except for the ending, there were minimal speeches and making it personal, I actually thought that Rollins/Carisi at his parents house was pretty nice, and it had the Rollins/Finn pairing, by far the best way for me to like Rollins. Finn is awesome and I was so happy to see him getting a nice amount of snark, and most of the actual investigation was pretty decent. I liked the idea of charging them with a hate crime, but I wanted to see more of how they actually made that work. For as much as they talked about courtroom stuff this episode, I feel like we didn't get much of it. The guest cast was solid, the main victim was sympathetic and the perps were all very punchable. 

The biggest cringe was definitely the ending, I was just embarrassed watching Carisi's niece fawn over Olivia as the music swelled and we got one last big speech where Olivia gets to be the sage queen of saviors, voice of the (conventionally attractive, of course) oppressed, our lady of perpetual compassion and whispers. 

I like Goldstein, but I find it annoying how much this show is trying to use its unused hate crime plots. We get it, your really salty Hate Crimes didn't get picked up, stop trying to make this show a place to have crossovers with a show that doesn't exist. It also really highlights how much SVU needs more cops, especially when the SVU crew always prioritize cases that are personal for various reasons, they must have endless rape and abuse cases that never see the light of day because they only have a few detectives. 

[The Wild Sow]

8 hours ago, preeya said:

18 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

 

So tell me how the ultra racist, lily white institution winds up with a "person (female) of color" as the administrator? It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Hudson always had a female president- I guess Kathleen Chalfant’s President Roberts retired.

And, diversity?

[UnikornRainbowz]

I LOVED this episode, very powerful message, YES when a woman is raped it is always a hate crime. I am so glad the show ended in the victims favor and the sleazebags had to pay. Every single article about feminism you see on social media is filled with misogynistic comments exactly like the show depicted as the girls marched. These vile commentators never get banned or muted for it, but God forbid a woman say the same type of thing about a man. I hope this inspires more marches at more universities all across America, because rape culture is so very alive.

 

LOVED seeing Bev DeAngelo!!!!!!!

[Frisky Wig]

In another episode thread this season, another Primetimer mentioned the condescending voice that Olivia uses when she talks to victims. I paid attention to it this episode and yeah, it’s awful!

[dttruman]

8 hours ago, UnikornRainbowz said:

I LOVED this episode, very powerful message, YES when a woman is raped it is always a hate crime. I am so glad the show ended in the victims favor and the sleazebags had to pay. Every single article about feminism you see on social media is filled with misogynistic comments exactly like the show depicted as the girls marched. These vile commentators never get banned or muted for it, but God forbid a woman say the same type of thing about a man. I hope this inspires more marches at more universities all across America, because rape culture is so very alive.

 

LOVED seeing Bev DeAngelo!!!!!!!

Let's not be too absolute here. This boys club was the "bottom of the barrel", but what happens when a vindictive woman, an overzealous DA, or an overzealous cop on a SVU squad uses that rape culture anger to rally women's groups to punish a guy who's only crime was that he broke up with a  girl? Remember the Duke Lacrosse case from a few years back?

Edited March 12, 2022 by dttruman

[Ohiopirate02]

10 hours ago, dttruman said:

Let's not be too absolute here. This boys club was the "bottom of the barrel", but what happens when a vindictive woman, an overzealous DA, or an overzealous cop on a SVU squad uses that rape culture anger to rally women's groups to punish a guy who's only crime was that he broke up with a  girl? Remember the Duke Lacrosse case from a few years back?

The Duke Lacrosse case is, was, and always will be an aberration.  Yes Crystal Mangum lied, Mike Nifong was overzealous to the point where he was rightfully disbarred, and the media had a field day.  But, the case was dismissed and the three young men in question became millionaires. 

And yet, the biggest victim of that case after all the dust settled is Crystal.  That poor woman needed help, but she was exploited by various people as they used her to make money and further their agendas.  

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

And yet, the biggest victim of that case after all the dust settled is Crystal.  That poor woman needed help, but she was exploited by various people as they used her to make money and further their agendas.  

Agreed most definitely, she needed mental help (and I am not making a joke of any kind).

This reminds me of an episode from SVU where a mother slept with a school official to get her kid into a prestigious school, but we find out later he was only pretending to be a school official. Benson badgered the victim to press charges and the ADA to prosecute the guy on rape charges. The case is lost and the son of the victim commits suicide. Chalk up another fatality due to Benson's over zealousness.

[Xeliou66]

28 minutes ago, dttruman said:

Agreed most definitely, she needed mental help (and I am not making a joke of any kind).

This reminds me of an episode from SVU where a mother slept with a school official to get her kid into a prestigious school, but we find out later he was only pretending to be a school official. Benson badgered the victim to press charges and the ADA to prosecute the guy on rape charges. The case is lost and the son of the victim commits suicide. Chalk up another fatality due to Benson's over zealousness.

Season 18’s Imposter is the episode you are describing, one of the worst episodes in SVU’s history, one where Benson badgers Barba to prosecute something that IS NOT A CRIME, Benson just thought it should be, and as a result people’s lives get ruined. Way to go St Olivia!

[UnikornRainbowz]

false accusations are very rare, and rape is very common

[Iguessnot]

58 minutes ago, UnikornRainbowz said:

false accusations are very rare, and rape is very common

Could be, but the solution should not be that any accusation from a woman renders a male guilty simply by that utterance. 

[Wizardpatch]

The Bishop Club is only Hudson U's 4th most rapiest student organization.

[CrystalBlue]

1 hour ago, Wizardpatch said:

The Bishop Club is only Hudson U's 4th most rapiest student organization.

Was.  It's closed down now.

[CrystalBlue]

I liked the hate crime aspect of this COTW even though the hate crime enhancement would bring only three more years to the sentence of rape one.  The Douchebag Boys were the most douchebaggiest d-bags ever assembled!  And one (only one?) was an anti-Semite to boot.

So I guess Mia the niece got rehabbed into coming to the rescue of a real rape victim and being instrumental in shutting down Bishop House.

Loved Nonna Carisi!  (It was great to see Beverly D'Angelo again.)  Wait until she finds out about Amanda's baby daddy being daddies!

[dttruman]

6 hours ago, Wizardpatch said:

The Bishop Club is only Hudson U's 4th most rapiest student organization.

Yeah it's closed down permanently. I haven't paid attention to the count. Does anyone think Hudson will have a fifth next season?

Edited March 13, 2022 by dttruman

[wknt3]

On 3/11/2022 at 9:39 AM, preeya said:

So tell me how the ultra racist, lily white institution winds up with a "person (female) of color" as the administrator? It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

It makes tons of sense. First Hudson is supposed to be a prestigious institution of higher learning (basically some combination of NYU and Columbia along with whatever Ivy League school has criminal headlines to rip from) which is more "concerned about preserving it's reputation above all else" rather than ideologically racist and sexist. Like all higher end colleges and universities the admin  and much of the student body is probably "woke" even though there are plenty of alumni, individuals, and students who are ultra racist and sexist, many of which have considerable money and clout. And there are plenty of middle management types who are ruthlessly pragmatic and amoral. The Board of Trustees represents all of those POVs and the only move after all the scandals they've experienced is to hire a female president, preferably a POC. Some will see it as real change, some will see it as PR, but it is absolutely what the school would do in real life,

 

On 3/11/2022 at 5:12 PM, tennisgurl said:

I like Goldstein, but I find it annoying how much this show is trying to use its unused hate crime plots. We get it, your really salty Hate Crimes didn't get picked up, stop trying to make this show a place to have crossovers with a show that doesn't exist. It also really highlights how much SVU needs more cops, especially when the SVU crew always prioritize cases that are personal for various reasons, they must have endless rape and abuse cases that never see the light of day because they only have a few detectives. 

I sort of agree with you, but OTOH the Hate Crimes episodes have generally been the best of the season so maybe they should keep using their crossover outlines? It's probably not just saltiness, but evidence that the reports that the series order was cancelled after they had started hiring actors were true. Dick Wolf is going to make sure that if they are paying actors for options they are damn well going to put them on screen. As far as more cops is concerned they have Olivia Benson. That's all they need.
 

5 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

I liked the hate crime aspect of this COTW even though the hate crime enhancement would bring only three more years to the sentence of rape one.  The Douchebag Boys were the most douchebaggiest d-bags ever assembled!  And one (only one?) was an anti-Semite to boot.

I thought the hate crime aspect was really interesting and liked it too. Which is why it was disappointing that they never really got into it. I mean there would be a line about how it was a bit of a distraction and could make it harder to get a conviction for only 3 years added to the sentence, but then they just moved on right away. They could have gone from good to excellent if they actually had some real discussion and debate.

[Zoe]

Why on earth does Benson's hair look better on OC?? It's a mess here even though it's the exact same style. 

[MaryHedwig]

On 3/12/2022 at 2:22 PM, dttruman said:

This reminds me of an episode from SVU where a mother slept with a school official to get her kid into a prestigious school, but we find out later he was only pretending to be a school official. Benson badgered the victim to press charges and the ADA to prosecute the guy on rape charges. The case is lost and the son of the victim commits suicide. Chalk up another fatality due to Benson's over zealousness.

That "prestigious school" was Hudson U. "Babies, don't let your mamas sleep with Hudson U. officials." That's Willie's second verse.

[dttruman]

4 hours ago, MaryHedwig said:

That "prestigious school" was Hudson U. "Babies, don't let your mamas sleep with Hudson U. officials." That's Willie's second verse.

I would like to see another police drama from another network take a shot at the SVU program, by having one of the lead characters tell a disruptive female character, "why don't you transfer to another NYC college, why not Hudson University?

[faithie]

Is it safe to presume that Richard Wheatley is a Hudson alumnus?

[TV Anonymous]

On 3/11/2022 at 7:55 PM, UnikornRainbowz said:

I LOVED this episode, very powerful message, YES when a woman is raped it is always a hate crime.

 

On 3/12/2022 at 7:29 PM, UnikornRainbowz said:

false accusations are very rare, and rape is very common

Wait, what? Perhaps you should read the Jian Ghomeshi case first before making such a sweeping statement.

[dttruman]

2 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

On 3/12/2022 at 7:29 PM, UnikornRainbowz said:

false accusations are very rare, and rape is very common

Wait, what? Perhaps you should read the Jian Ghomeshi case first before making such a sweeping statement.

This has all the earmarks of a Benson Lynching, but this Ghomeshi guy seems to have some very bad habits of his own. I would definitely like to have more info on this before I condemn anybody.

[WendyCR72]

Let's stick to the episode itself, please.

[dttruman]

40 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Let's stick to the episode itself, please.

My response  to that one comment about wanting more information was not a request but a rhetoric response

[Cinnabon]

On 3/12/2022 at 7:29 PM, UnikornRainbowz said:

false accusations are very rare, and rape is very common

Thank you.