We Own This City - General Discussion

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

We Own the City is set in Baltimore 2015. Riots are erupting across the city as citizens demand justice for Freddie Gray, a 25-year-old Black man who has died under suspicious circumstances while in police custody. Drugs and violent crime are surging, and the city is reaching its highest murder count in more than two decades: 342 homicides in a single year, in a city of just 600,000 people. Facing pressure from the mayor's office-as well as a federal investigation of the department over Gray's death-Baltimore police commanders turn to a rank-and-file hero, Sergeant Wayne Jenkins, and his elite plainclothes unit, the Gun Trace Task Force, to help get guns and drugs off the street. However, behind these new efforts, a criminal conspiracy of unprecedented scale was unfolding within the police department. Entrusted with fixing the city's drug and gun crisis, Jenkins chose to exploit it instead.

Based on the book by Justin Fenkin

Initial airing of episode 01: 2022.04.25

[aghst]

Mini series, next project by David Simon and George Pelecanos.

[DanaK]

Trailer https://tvline.com/2022/03/16/we-own-this-city-trailer-hbo-crime-drama/

This scandal was a pretty big deal in Baltimore (I live some miles from the city). Just one more reason for the residents not to trust the police. One of the task force's members Sean Suiter committed suicide (though his family disputes that) before he reportedly was going to be questioned about the task force

[BetterButter]

 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

S01. E01: Part 1

Quote

Momodu Gondo finds himself in an interrogation. A detective in a nearby county traces a string of overdoses to Baltimore.

Original air date 2022.04.25

[Mr. R0b0t]

I kind of loved this first episode. Compelling characters, great acting and just enough familiar stuff mixed in with the unknown.

[Marley]

I really like the first episode too. It made me miss The Wire tho and I was wishing there was somehow a connection between the two. I know there’s a few familiar actors.

After The Wire and this show it makes me want to go to Baltimore. It’s a weird reaction because what they are showing lol and it’s not like I want to go be a creep at housing projects lol but I just think it would be a neat area as a whole to see. I’ve felt this way since I watched The Wire. Maybe one day lol.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Marley

[gesundheit]

I was really impressed with that first episode, definitely lived up to expectations (which were very, very high). This'll definitely be a painful watch, though. But a powerful one. The specificity is key, as always with Pelacanos/Simon. 

Wild to see Poot all grown up and a cop! (Used to seeing Marlo Stanfield as a cop already.)

[PrincessPurrsALot]

S01.E02: Part 2

Quote

Jenkins learns stark truths about policing as a new officer. Rayam opens up about the GTTF. Suiter is assigned to a new murder case.

Original air date 2022.05.02

[dwmarch]

I think this was a strong start although I am not exactly sure what is going on with the different investigations and the jumping around in the timeline. I found it a little confusing how we start out with Jon Bernthal giving what seems to be a sincere lecture about not beating on suspects but then when we see him in action he immediately hassles someone, basically daring the guy to say something and get a face full of that beating stick. But then we hear about this other cop (the Gary Sinise looking guy) who really pushes things and gets a lot of complaints but who knows how to get away with it by keeping his arrests high enough for the bosses to look the other way. Despite this, consensus among various characters is that this dude is the one who has got to go if you want to start cleaning up the Baltimore PD. And instead at the end of the episode the FBI arrests Jon Bernthal instead. I guess this will unfold further in episodes to come but it's a little all over the place right now.

There are also some County Mounties doing their own investigation of deadly drugs and their investigation is landing right on top of something else going on with the GTTF task force hence the two tracking devices on the guy's car. And we have various gangs fighting amongst themselves. There's also some civil rights stuff going on that involves the mayor (who is retiring) and various high-level police bureaucrats. It's a lot to keep track of. Having said that, for an episode that was basically a bunch of people having meetings it was interesting the whole way through.

[peridot]

This show is good, but tough to watch.  I hate that the higher ups are so concerned about "clearing up the streets", that they're looking the other way when the cops commit crimes/violations.  It was insane that someone from the legal team sat in on bookings to verify if their charges were legit, and to ensure the city won't be sued by the wronged party.

When I saw the first episode, I didn't even realize those guys were cops.  It was sad to see the fresh out of the Academy Jenkins fall prey to the corruption that's standard, and also pass on those corrupt beliefs to another fresh out of the Academy rookie.

The huge scar on that poor kid that was coming home from work was heartbreaking.  I was half afraid the report would show that he died at the hands of cops.

[Mr. R0b0t]

Episode 2 really laid bare the problems with policing in Baltimore and its cyclical nature.  

[gesundheit]

Definitely Josh Charles as I've never seen him before. (In a good way. Also his Baltimore accent!)

 

Hell, Gabrielle Carteris as we've never seen her before too. Such an interesting cast.

I'm struggling with the chronological jumps but if we know anything about these showrunners, it's that it's going to be complicated and it might take more than one watch to pick everything up. And that it'll pay off.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

S01.E03: Part 3

Quote

Despite numerous complaints, Hersl is placed on the GTTF. Jensen monitors Gondo’s calls. Jenkins brings Suiter along on a raid.

Original air date 2022.05.09

[peridot]

The overblown ego on Jenkins is something else.  Seeing all the corruption going on and lack of remorse is sickening.  It was interesting to see the roadblocks that the DoJ lady is experiencing - everyone is passing the buck on the numerous problems.  The union's stance ("we have their back, no matter what") is infuriating. 

Jenkins is a thin-skinned egomaniac.  I really hope that Suiter didn't accept that cash. 

[Milburn Stone]

On 5/3/2022 at 11:22 PM, gesundheit said:

Definitely Josh Charles as I've never seen him before. (In a good way. Also his Baltimore accent!)

He's incredible in this. I believe that he's that guy!

I realize it's not an "infraction" of the rules to reveal stuff about the real life basis for this show, including events that will no doubt be in episodes yet to air--but I hope, personally, that no one will. Someone did upthread, and I've put them on Ignore, which was the only thing I could do. 

[EtheltoTillie]

On 5/9/2022 at 11:15 PM, peridot said:

 

Jenkins is a thin-skinned egomaniac.  I really hope that Suiter didn't accept that cash. 

Jamie Hector, don't do it!  I'm on tenterhooks about this.  Jamie played the scariest villain ever on The Wire, but then he played a completely different character on Bosch.  Now he seemed poised to be a straight arrow, but I'm getting scared for him.  Ooh, I'm really enjoying this show.  All these great actors.  

[EtheltoTillie]

Why would any witness ever testify about anything given these scary criminals and their easy resort to vengeance?  This is a real problem with policing on top of brutality.  

[IntrovertRed]

I can't stop seeing Bernthal as Shane from Walking Dead. Jenkins was a piece of work, that's for sure. Scary that there's gotta be a bunch both before him and after him. 

After watching the documentary about this case, I don't know what to believe. 

[Marley]

I love this show so much. I wish it could somehow go on even longer or The Wire creators made another series. There’s so much story to work with.

[EtheltoTillie]

On 5/11/2022 at 5:55 PM, KLJ said:

I can't stop seeing Bernthal as Shane from Walking Dead. Jenkins was a piece of work, that's for sure. Scary that there's gotta be a bunch both before him and after him. 

After watching the documentary about this case, I don't know what to believe. 

What is the documentary's name?  And where can we watch it?  (I will save for after the series is over, however.)

[dsteele]

I'm not familiar with a documentary but the series is based on a book by Baltimore Sun reporter Justin Fenton, available on Amazon:
We Own This City: A True Story of Crime, Cops, and Corruption 

 

[MrWhyt]

Bernthal is so good in this.

[dwmarch]

That was a beautiful title drop in episode 4. When Jenkins says "we own this city" it feels earned.

[gesundheit]

On 5/11/2022 at 7:40 PM, Marley said:

I love this show so much. I wish it could somehow go on even longer or The Wire creators made another series. There’s so much story to work with.

I agree, it's kind of killing me that we only get two more episodes. It's so good, and so chilling. The accompanying podcasts are also excellent and informative. 

 

This whole thing is still very much being processed through the courts, so I would say they could do a follow-up miniseries, but that's not really their style.

[gesundheit]

Here's the real video that they made trying to recreate busting open that safe. Unreal. (For those worried about spoilers from the actual real story, this isn't one! Just the real-life version of a moment from last night's episode!)

[peridot]

The corruption and evil of these officers really disgust me.  I feel so bad for the innocent people who were hit by the fleeing car.  I guess Suiter is now trying to be an upstanding cop.  He shouldn't be surprised that no juror had faith in the Baltimore cops, when he planted drugs in a car that killed an elderly man.

Who was the guy that planted the gun under the truck?  I don't remember seeing him before.

I'm glad the FBI lady didn't alert Jenkins of the investigation.  All the time jumps were hard to follow this episode. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by peridot

[EtheltoTillie]

15 hours ago, peridot said:

Who was the guy that planted the gun under the truck?  I don't remember seeing him before.. 

I think it’s the bail bondsman he’s fencing drugs to. 

I guess Suiter did some bad stuff but then got out. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by EtheltoTillie

[EtheltoTillie]

The word cocky was invented to describe the way Bernthal is bouncing and strutting around.  Stealing from a dwarf stripper was a new low.  

Edited May 18, 2022 by EtheltoTillie

[PrincessPurrsALot]

S01.E05: Part Five 

Quote

Jensen, Sieracki, and U.S. Attorney Leo Wise prepare to charge the officers of the GTTF. Suiter feels the distrust of Baltimoreans as he works a homicide scene and begins to sense that his past is closing in on him. Steele and Davis seek support from Baltimore’s new mayor on the consent decree before the new administration takes over the DOJ.

Original air date 2022.05.23

[peridot]

I'm glad to see that Suitor experiences guilt for the terrible things that he did while he was with Jenkins.

It's surprising that despite knowing the Feds were on to them, no one tried to ease off on the illegal activities.  That's pretty nihilistic.

Baltimore PD had to know that something shady was going down.  A person gets $8k in one pay period, and that didn't raise eyebrows? All of these guys were extremely greedy.  I think Jenkins mentioned that his base salary was $85k.  That's a pretty good salary. 

I felt bad for the guy that was being stalked by the cop and lost his job. 

The meeting with the new mayor had me shaking my head.  They know of the problems, but refuse to try something new to fix them. 

[chick binewski]

On 5/4/2022 at 12:22 AM, gesundheit said:

I'm struggling with the chronological jumps but if we know anything about these showrunners, it's that it's going to be complicated and it might take more than one watch to pick everything up. And that it'll pay off.

I ended up watching the premiere episode twice and that gave me a better understanding how they were handling the time jumps (but frankly I can get confused easily).

On 5/9/2022 at 11:15 PM, peridot said:

Jenkins is a thin-skinned egomaniac.  I really hope that Suiter didn't accept that cash. 

When I saw Jenkins at the start of his career, I really felt like he might have been a sponge that didn't think - he was just going to be impacted by whoever got ahold of him first. Then I rewatched S1 of The Wire and Jenkins came to mind when Daniels tells Carver that he'll be managing good cops & bad cops, but how he carries himself will be the most predominant factor in lending a positive influence. 

But I know little about the real-life Jenkins and in the show it really doesn't appear that he had any moral struggle once he got started - he sure seemed to spin into incredibly shitty, arrogant behavior pretty quickly. 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

S01.E06: Part Six 

Quote

After the arrest of several GTTF officers, Suiter grows concerned about his grand jury subpoena. Jenkins learns his fellow officers are cooperating with the investigation as the full extent of his crimes comes to light. Davis and the mayor’s office go head-to-head on funding for the consent decree, while Steele questions whether the U.S. justice system can ever be changed.

Original air date 2022.05.30 

[Marley]

The show really went with the suicide for Suiters death. Would be odd for them to do a hit at that point I guess. If Suiter really felt ashamed by his past and what he had done I could see someone killing them-self over that. Wouldn’t they be able to tell tho with how he was shot?

So much corruption and shitty ppl tho. No one willing to try to change something or anyone that is willing to try is just pushed away.

I”m surprised someone didn’t try to kill Jenkins in prison. I read he’s in some low security prison now in Kentucky tho.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Marley

[GodsBeloved]

On 5/11/2022 at 5:55 PM, KLJ said:

I can't stop seeing Bernthal as Shane from Walking Dead. Jenkins was a piece of work, that's for sure. Scary that there's gotta be a bunch both before him and after him. 

After watching the documentary about this case, I don't know what to believe. 

Where did you find the documentary?

[IntrovertRed]

4 minutes ago, GodsBeloved said:

Where did you find the documentary?

It's called the The Slow Hustle on HBO.

[I Want My MBTV]

I watched the Slow Hustle as well so was somewhat prepared and waiting for that scene even though it wasn't exactly the same it was pretty close.  On Slow Hustle though it did seem more framed there as this was yet another cover up by the Baltimore PD and no way he could've shot himself.  Knowing how corrupt they were and are it is hard to take anything they say at face value.

This show was so depressing.  I was not surprised but glad that Mayor Lady and her "babies" got caught for fraud.    

Poor people of Baltimore deserve better. 

[peridot]

I don't blame the DoJ lady for resigning.  All the work they do doesn't seem to make a difference, and the current administration made them even more ineffective.  I would probably become an alcoholic if I tried to do that type of job.

I did not understand why Jenkins was so indignant about being called a dirty cop.  What the hell does he define as dirty?!  I kind of laughed at how easy his bail bondsman "friend" rolled over on Jenkins.  He was so nonchalant about it.

What happened to Suiter was so sad.  Jenkins was such a shithead for re-stating that he didn't plant the drugs. 

I don't know why, but I was shocked at charges being made against the mayor.  The corruption is top down, but it doesn't seem like an issue that higher ups want to fix.  What a shame.

[aghst]

George Pelecanos talked to Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald about WTC and some of the other shows he's worked on with David Simon.

They talk about the real life cop on whom they modeled McNulty a bit.  Then about cops dealing drugs.

Pelecanos says Simon drives an old beat up car so he teases him about spending some of that $100 million that he's worth.

That's a surprising number, since they've created shows which are highly acclaimed but not big hits.

But they've been doing it for like 20 years now, across a half dozen to a dozen shows.

Probably gets residuals and money from things like DVD sales and such.

Not to say money makes artists produce inferior work later in life but have they made anything as good as The Wire?

[IntrovertRed]

I don't know what to believe regarding Sean Suiter's death.   Did Suiter know/realize that he was not the focus of the investigation and could have somehow gotten through it without ruining his career?  His family believes he was murdered, but he seems to be also only one person out of this whole investigation, so was he really that important?  Either way, his poor family.

Bernthal did a hell of a job as Jenkins.  He pleaded guilty because he didn't want his wife to find out about his extracurricular activities, so I wonder what she thinks about all of them now.  I hope she divorced his ass.

[roughing it]

12 hours ago, peridot said:

I did not understand why Jenkins was so indignant about being called a dirty cop.  What the hell does he define as dirty?!

He was a narcissistic egomaniac - in his mind he could do no wrong, and he had the support of most of his team and supervisors.  The planting of drugs and weapons was just a means to an arrest (and increasing his numbers).  The stealing of money was his *pay* for what he was doing and that he deserved it.  Everything was justified in his mind.

1 hour ago, KLJ said:

Did Suiter know/realize that he was not the focus of the investigation and could have somehow gotten through it without ruining his career?

Maybe if he had returned the calls to the DOJ? or whomever, they may have cleared that up.  But he was convinced he was going down.

[wmdekooning]

On 4/28/2022 at 1:26 AM, Marley said:

After The Wire and this show it makes me want to go to Baltimore. It’s a weird reaction because what they are showing lol and it’s not like I want to go be a creep at housing projects lol but I just think it would be a neat area as a whole to see. I’ve felt this way since I watched The Wire. Maybe one day lol.

Honestly, there ARE places like you see in “The Wire” and “We Own This City”, and I have been to two or three, one of the neighbourhoods is where a major member of the faith based initiative I work for is located. Even then, I have never been to any of the neighbourhoods depicted such as the high/low rises or those back alleys where there is always a dead body laid out.

There’s wonderful hotels, an aquarium, a number of good museums an arts and music venue where you can see the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra, lovely restaurants and you can walk amongst the locals at the waterfront…

[wknt3]

So I've been reading some of the articles and follow David Simon on Twitter and I'm amazed how many seemingly intelligent people utterly miss the point of this series or insist on seeing it only as some sort of companion piece to, or sequel of, The Wire. Utterly unbelievable. I mean how can anyone watch this and not realize that the moral of this story is that if the Commissioner didn't spend so much time looking at porno mags and eating BPD would not be so dysfunctional...

[gesundheit]

On 6/1/2022 at 11:04 AM, roughing it said:

He was a narcissistic egomaniac - in his mind he could do no wrong, and he had the support of most of his team and supervisors.  The planting of drugs and weapons was just a means to an arrest (and increasing his numbers).  The stealing of money was his *pay* for what he was doing and that he deserved it.  Everything was justified in his mind.

Yeah, I think he just thought of it the same way someone would if they gave themselves some free food at a restaurant job or resold a few ticket stubs at a movie theater. He probably thought of dirty cops as actual murderers/rapists or something. Since he thought his victims were already subhuman, it wasn't like ripping off good people. He was absolutely convinced he was one of the good guys.

Jon Bernthal was incredible in this, but so was Darrell Britt-Gibson. I don't know. Rayam didn't get the arc that Jenkins did but I thought Britt-Gibson's acting told us so much about who Rayam was, as well as his "why." His off-and-on glee/nostalgia in his interview scenes was something to behold.

[pasdetrois]

41 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

Darrell Britt-Gibson

I spotted him in, I think, Barry, and I think he's a wonderful actor and has a bright future. I thought that everyone but Bernthal was fabulous. Bernthal always has too many actor-ey twitches for my taste.

Baltimore is such a wonderful city. I'm so sad that it's still such a mess. The people deserve so much better.

[GodsBeloved]

On 5/31/2022 at 3:55 PM, KLJ said:

It's called the The Slow Hustle on HBO.

Thanks!

[Milburn Stone]

On 4/28/2022 at 12:26 AM, Marley said:

After The Wire and this show it makes me want to go to Baltimore.

You definitely should go. I'm from there and have been back fairly recently. It's very sad to say the truth, which is that if you stay to certain areas and avoid others, you'll be safe. But that is true of most American cities. Why it's sad is because everyone in a city deserves to be safe, no matter where they live. But that's not the world we live in today. Go, take in a ballgame at Camden Yards. Eat your weight in steamed crabs and crab cakes. Hang out in Fells Point. Enjoy the music scene. Maybe run into John Waters! (I have.) 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Milburn Stone

[Zella]

I finished this a couple of days ago after reading both We Own This City and I Got A Monster (another book on the case, though IMO not as good of a read as the other). Even after reading 2 books about the case, I'll admit to being a little confused in episode 1 who was who, but overall, I thought the miniseries did a good job of presenting a very convoluted story. 

Also was really impressed with a lot of the performances. I liked seeing alums from The Wire pop up, but I was particularly impressed with Jamie Hector as Suiter. I also thought Bernthal and Charles did great work, too, but really all the guys playing dirty cops put in some fantastic performances. They're some of the most repugnant TV characters I've spent time with in a while. Charles (he's always been Will Gardner to me) in particular was almost unrecognizable to me. Actually, there's some footage of Daniel Hersl at the riots floating around the internet, and it's uncanny how well Charles mimics his posture and demeanor. 

As for Suiter, I still don't know what to make about whether he killed himself or was murdered. I've watched The Slow Hustle and thought it was very well made (it's directed by Sonja Sohn, another Wire actor), but the more they insisted it was murder, the more it seemed like suicide to me. Still, there's enough unanswered questions left that I don't feel comfortable conclusively saying that's obviously what happened. I did see that Suiter's lawyer got into a pretty heated fight with David Simon on Twitter this week over the depiction of Suiter's death in the show. I thought the depiction of Suiter was pretty sympathetic and tragic, but I can see why his attorney and, by extension, his family is also not happy with it. 

Edited June 4, 2022 by Zella

[Milburn Stone]

17 hours ago, Zella said:

I thought the depiction of Suiter was pretty sympathetic and tragic, but I can see why his attorney and, by extension, his family is also not happy with it. 

I don't pretend to have any knowledge other than I got from Simon's show, but I can see why, dramatically, it suited Simon & Co. to play it as suicide. From the beginning, we LOVE Suiter. That never changes, even when we see him in flashback in his "dirty cop" phase. This is because we can see how he didn't really want to be dirty, he thought he had to be, and any of us might have felt the same in his shoes; and also because we see how he got out of that as soon as he could, to become an honest hard-working homicide detective who really cares about solving murders. So when we begin to sense that he's going to pay a terrible price for his earlier actions, we are going "Noooooo!" And then when we begin to suspect what that price is going to be, we are going "NOOOOOOO!!!!" 

The show needed this throughline to really make us care about everything else.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Milburn Stone

[Zella]

8 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I don't pretend to have any knowledge other than I got from Simon's show, but I can see why, dramatically, it suited Simon & Co. to play it as suicide. From the beginning, we LOVE Suiter. That never changes, even when we see him in flashback in his "dirty cop" phase. This is because we can see how he didn't really want to be dirty, he thought he had to be, and any of us might have felt the same in his shoes; and also because we see how he got out of that as soon as he could, to become an honest hard-working homicide detective who really cares about solving murders. So when we begin to sense that he's going to pay a terrible price for his earlier actions, we are going "Noooooo!" And then when we begin to suspect what that price is going to be, we are going "NOOOOOOO!!!!" 

The show needed this throughline to really make us care about everything else.

Oh I agree 100% from a narrative perspective. Suiter was the foil we needed. But I understand why his family isn't happy about it. They were apparently angry he was included as a character at all. I understand their objection--he's not a character to them--but I also don't think there was any way they were adapting that book without including Suiter's story.