Better Things Season 5 Discussion

[Suzn]

44 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

That's the one! Who they were seeing when watching this show was just so different. 

Like even when they said how Max had a "crisis" that was playing out over the season and it took me a minute to realize what they meant.

It sounds like those people were watching a different show than most of us here!

[Faceplant]

I did like Sam's rant about Generation X. We are the coolest generation! 

[QQQQ]

On 4/5/2022 at 10:08 AM, sistermagpie said:

 

He mentioned an Afterschool special, so maybe it's a specific reference to the abortion one? I can't remember that one, but a quick google suggests the girl only thinks she's pregnant and has a stomache problem, so maybe the banana sandwiches is a reference to "I Think I'm Having a Baby" and he knows Sam will connect that to a girl being pregnant (even if she wasn't really) because she goes to the clinic etc.

Forgot I did laugh at us now even getting a shopping montage. 

It's weird Sam seems to have 2 daughters now who left school so they could be high schoolers but without the school full-time.

What's weird is he said "back to school specials" not "After School Specials" (which I used to watch in the 80s). I replayed with closed-captioning to double-check.

[possibilities]

There might be some issue with referencing a real franchise vs a made up one?

Or maybe he just misspoke. Back to school specials are sales on school supplies at the end of summer, so it's kind of a funny goof. I sure hope there wasn't a TV show about an abortion performed with a pencil. Though, if there was, then that explains Sam's devastated reaction to finding out Max had one.

[One Imaginary Girl]

18 hours ago, Faceplant said:

I did like Sam's rant about Generation X. We are the coolest generation! 

I don't know if it's intentional, but I wonder if there's a point being made in showing how different Sam is from her offspring.  For example, she likes food and elaborate  cooking and even has a fun time going to a different supermarket and inquiring about items she's not familiar with. She's gregarious and interacts with people at the supermarket, and she's apparently made a new friend in Danny Trejo.  Oh, and the baseball cards--she had a hobby when she was young and even now still had an organizing system in mind, even if she did eventually decide not to keep them.  The kids, though, seem mostly interested in focusing on their phones.  (Yes, I am old.) 

Edited April 7, 2022 by One Imaginary Girl

[SunnyBeBe]

I’m now wondering if Pamela is super obsessed with a need for attention or pity.  It’s as if she wants viewers to feel sorry for her or see her as a martyr.  That scene where Max was saying how much her mom meant to her was so over the top….odd….it seemed very obsessive and not in a good way.  

[aghst]

13 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I’m now wondering if Pamela is super obsessed with a need for attention or pity.  It’s as if she wants viewers to feel sorry for her or see her as a martyr.  That scene where Max was saying how much her mom meant to her was so over the top….odd….it seemed very obsessive and not in a good way.  

Here IMDB goes back to 1982!

Since the early to mid '90s, most of the roles have been doing voice -- who knew there were so many animated shows!

IN the '80s she's credited as Pamela Segall.  She had a recurring role in Facts of Life so she must have been a child or a teen at most?  

In the last 20 years, most of her live-action roles have been in Lucky Louie, Californication, Louie and now Better Things.  She's had a number of roles which lasted 1-5 episodes on some other shows.

For some reason I got the sense she's done a lot more.  Well she's done a ton of things, just mainly as a voice actor.  She must have transitioned rom child actor to voice actor to character actor to eventually this her starring vehicle.

Wonder how Louis CK conceived of the show.  He must have been the one to pitch it because she wasn't getting a lot of live action shows, especially where she's a star.

So it's largely based on her career and life.  But rather than emphasize the work, it's the family and it's been very well-received, even though the daughter characters grate.

 

[BC4ME]

15 hours ago, aghst said:

Wonder how Louis CK conceived of the show.  He must have been the one to pitch it because she wasn't getting a lot of live action shows, especially where she's a star.

Louis had a lot of extended, elaborate cooking for his kids scenes in Louie. I'm guessing that's where she got that, especially if she likes doing in IRL.

[Lone Wolf]

On 4/5/2022 at 12:49 AM, possibilities said:

I was genuinely surprised that Sam had such a big reaction to Max having had an abortion, like it was some huge traumatic tragedy. I understood her being upset that Max didn't tell her, though.

And Max drunkenly telling her mother she loves her and crawling all over her grossed me out. I think we were supposed to find it touching, but I didn't.

There was probably all kinds of things going through her mind - the grandchild she could have had, sad that Max didn't confide in her, thinking of how it could have gone wrong; the list goes on. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but it wasn't exactly a trip to the dentist.

I just chalked it up to her being impaired and not feeling like she was expressing herself well.  Emotions can run high when you're drunk/stoned/whatever she was.  She might have been feeling guilty about how badly she treats Sam and she was obviously second-guessing if not regretting her decision.  All intensified.  

 

On 4/5/2022 at 7:20 AM, sistermagpie said:

Yeah, I couldn't help but think that the friend going to the wedding seemed almost more well-adjusted because he faced some conflict in his family. 

Is Duke supposed to be dealing with some psychic issues here as well? When she was standing in the hall I thought she was at the place where they'd put that skull her dad gave them and "feeling" the place the way she claimed she couldn't when they put it down. 

He definitely has it together more than Sam's kids (at least more than Max and Duke), and for exactly that reason.

I don't know what's going on with Duke, but like @possibilities said, she's definitely in trouble.  Every episode this season I think of the early seasons and think, "Wow, she used to be the good one."  

I didn't catch which doggo was on the bed with her, but it was probably stoned out of its little canine brain, locked in that hotbox of a room.

On 4/5/2022 at 8:25 AM, circumvent said:

The comedy part of the show annoys me. I don't know anyone who shops that way, it is way too much of a caricature of a clumsy person trying to do regular stuff.

I think Adlon's taking a page from Curb.  I could see LD shopping like that, although not quite as OTT.

On 4/5/2022 at 11:28 AM, heatherchandler said:

And 90% of this episode was Sam shopping or cooking?

I think there's been a cooking sequence in every episode this season.

Raising kids is tough, and they don't come with instruction manuals.  l decided long ago that it wasn't for me, and when I see shows like this (even factoring in that it's one more Hollywood version of parenting), I feel like I made the right decision.

 

[Suzn]

I guess I'm glad this show is ending...I would be stopping here if it wasn't.  I'm sorry to say that I like Sam less with each episode.

[txhorns79]

I was mixed on the episode.  I thought the Caribbean Queen bit was cute and everyone just seemed to be having fun.  I also liked the stuff with Casey Wilson.  And are we supposed to believe Sam actually did do a movie called Filthy Moms at some point?  I'm trying to decide whether it was soft core porn or some kind of gross out humor movie?   

As for the plane bits, I have no idea what we were supposed to take away from that.  The guy sitting next to Sam was an obnoxious jerk, but then Sam went up to first class and did her own version of being an obnoxious jerk to the flight crew.  The moment with Phil comforting Duke was nice. 

[Suzn]

23 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

As for the plane bits, I have no idea what we were supposed to take away from that.  The guy sitting next to Sam was an obnoxious jerk, but then Sam went up to first class and did her own version of being an obnoxious jerk to the flight crew.  The moment with Phil comforting Duke was nice. 

I thought Sam helped escalate the situation with the guy.  I wouldn't have wanted to sit with her either.

[Door County Cherry]

18 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I'm trying to decide whether it was soft core porn or some kind of gross out humor movie?   

I think it was supposed to be like Bad Moms. 

On 4/9/2022 at 9:27 PM, aghst said:

Wonder how Louis CK conceived of the show.  He must have been the one to pitch it because she wasn't getting a lot of live action shows, especially where she's a star.

Can I ask why you think Louis CK conceived of the show?  Pamela was an actor, writer, consulting producer and producer on his FX show.  She might be more known for her voice acting but she had done live action and had written for a show similar to what she did. I do think him backing her likely helped her get the show but I don't think he's the creative force behind it, especially since so much of it feels autobiographical.

[txhorns79]

3 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:

I think it was supposed to be like Bad Moms. 

Was that it?  I wonder why Sam was acting so embarrassed.  Bad Moms had raunchy humor, but it wasn't anything that I would be embarrassed if my parent saw me acting in. 

Quote

Can I ask why you think Louis CK conceived of the show?

I'm pretty sure he has a co-creator credit with Pamela Adlon for Better Things, and was heavily involved in the series until his scandal.

[Door County Cherry]

1 minute ago, txhorns79 said:

Was that it?  I wonder why Sam was acting so embarrassed.  Bad Moms had raunchy humor, but it wasn't anything that I would be embarrassed if my parent saw me acting in. 

Her mom is pretty judgmental, though.  

I thought Bad Moms because the one guy said he laughed so hard he vomited.  I don't think they were trying to imply she did porn but maybe they are.  That'd be a twist. 

[aghst]

Yeah at the time Better Things came out in the first season, Louis CK had a lot of juice at FX and probably many other places.

His show was widely loved both at the network and elsewhere.

He went from some another standup to a big name artist.  They talked about how deliberate he was in the shots they took to film and edit the show.

It wasn't his first attempt at a show nor the first time he featured Adilon.  First it was on the short-lived Lucky Louie playing his wife and then Adilon had a recurring role -- not a ton of episodes but more than a couple of times I believe, on Louie.

IMDB shows her playing a character named "Pamela" in 14 episodes of Louie over 5 seasons, 2010 to 2015.

[sistermagpie]

11 hours ago, aghst said:

Yeah at the time Better Things came out in the first season, Louis CK had a lot of juice at FX and probably many other places.

His show was widely loved both at the network and elsewhere.

He went from some another standup to a big name artist.  They talked about how deliberate he was in the shots they took to film and edit the show.

It wasn't his first attempt at a show nor the first time he featured Adilon.  First it was on the short-lived Lucky Louie playing his wife and then Adilon had a recurring role -- not a ton of episodes but more than a couple of times I believe, on Louie.

IMDB shows her playing a character named "Pamela" in 14 episodes of Louie over 5 seasons, 2010 to 2015.

I remember her on Louie too. But still, I doubt the conception of the show came much from him, since it is so autobiographical. I think they're just creative partners who worked really well together and talk of a show Adlon would do came naturally out of their working together, with him lending his creative talents and pull at FX. 

I think she's always handled the issues with him well, just stating that she's always had a great relationship with him without implying that this means she doesn't believe he could have done anything wrong. He didn't target her that way, so she got a good relationship out of it.

11 hours ago, Suzn said:

I thought Sam helped escalate the situation with the guy.  I wouldn't have wanted to sit with her either.

Yeah, the guy was out of line yelling at the mom and the kid but Sam's way of dealing with that was obviously only going to make the guy angrier. It was Phil who was out of line with the flight attendant, though, complaining about her bracelet.

I like the moment of Sam leaving Frankie and Max alone when Frankie was taking care of her, but Max really does still seem like the same teenager she was at the start of the show. In general, I also liked the chaotic house before the trip. And it does ring true to me that while Sam is obviously 100% supportive of her kids, they all feel compelled to NOT go to her with their problems--the show would be really insufferable if they did, really.

I also thought the movie the guy was referring to was something like Bad Moms. I'm confident saying that Sam has never done porn. It would be common knowledge if she had, but the closest she's come is that cheesecake picture the kids at the school found.

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

I also thought the movie the guy was referring to was something like Bad Moms. I'm confident saying that Sam has never done porn. It would be common knowledge if she had, but the closest she's come is that cheesecake picture the kids at the school found.

I was thinking more like some minor role in a Skinamax flick they show after midnight (think receptionist at the overly horny doctor's office), not necessarily a starring role in hard core porn.  You are probably right though that it was a reference to Bad Moms.   

Can someone also remind me what the deal is with Marion's wife and Phil?  Why do they dislike one another? 

[chocolatine]

If I was Marion's wife, I would have insisted on taking a different flight from Sam, Phil, and the girls. Anyone who's known them for any length of time would have anticipated Sam and Phil getting obnoxious. Did Marion end up paying for an upgrade for Max? The flight attendant didn't make her leave the section, but it didn't look like she was in one of the seats either. Maybe she was only allowed to stay until she finished her drink. If he did pay for an upgrade for her, that wouldn't have been fair to the other two.

Sam having "packing shpilkes" is somewhat relatable to me. I handle it differently though, by being hyper-focused on the packing and any last-minute household tasks I need to do before I leave. So I would be extremely put out if a bunch of people just showed up unannounced at my house, especially a nosy stranger like Casey Wilson's character. The only people who had a good reason to stop by were the pet sitters, and even they should have been in and out without lingering.

If Sam had been in a movie the caliber of Bad Moms, wouldn't she have more money and at least be able to afford premium economy? Those 4-5 inches of extra leg room make a world of difference on long flights, plus the people sitting in that section tend to be more frequent travelers and better behaved.

[CarpeFelis]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Can someone also remind me what the deal is with Marion's wife and Phil?  Why do they dislike one another? 

I didn’t remember either and wanted to know, so I rewatched the first episode Caroline appeared in, the housewarming of her and Marion’s LA house. Right from the start (the extremely awkward non-hug between Caroline and Phyl) it was obvious these two have never gotten along. Caroline came across as a snob, but Phyl was worse, being openly negative and critical, a horrible party guest who just HAS to call attention to herself with manufactured complaints and nasty little putdowns. Standing under the massive chandelier, which others had complimented, she complained that it was an earthquake hazard and she didn’t want to stand there, to which Caroline replied “Who’s forcing you to stand there, Phyllis?” (which I loved).

Later Caroline, being snobbish again, announced to everyone that the Stilton cheese had been specially flown in from England and was only available in a very limited quantity. Then we see Phyl making a face and spitting it into a napkin, and next she chastises Caroline that’s it’s cold and should never be served that way. 

Worst of all, when they took some family pictures Phyl made a point of asking for one “this time, only blood” which blatantly excluded only Caroline, who exchanged a look with Marion and said “Sure”—my own response would have been “WOW”—and stepped out of the way. Sam and Phyl exchanged glares, but once the picture was snapped Phyl looked incredibly smug (as she usually does) about this little power play. Textbook narcissistic Phyllis, the MIL from hell who’s trying to compete with her DIL in any way she can.

Speaking of Caroline and Marion… why the hell did they have Max up there in first class with them? Isn’t she more than enough of a spoiled little bitch already? From Sam’s comment while she was there (something like “what are you doing here?”) I wondered if they’d bought Max a first class seat—which I wouldn’t allow if I were Sam, because Max doesn’t freaking deserve it—or if she was just hanging out there but not being thrown out by the flight attendant.

Have to agree Sam’s seatmate was thoroughly obnoxious but Sam sure wasn’t helping matters. She was being just as self-righteous as Phyl and pretty obnoxious herself and just making the guy that much angrier.

And what was the deal with Duke taking forever and a day to hand over her passport and then throwing it at Sam from the top of the stairs? If my daughter had ever done that to me I’d have been pissed as hell, but Sam just puts up with this kind of crap from her kids.

[sistermagpie]

22 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

If I was Marion's wife, I would have insisted on taking a different flight from Sam, Phil, and the girls. Anyone who's known them for any length of time would have anticipated Sam and Phil getting obnoxious. Did Marion end up paying for an upgrade for Max? The flight attendant didn't make her leave the section, but it didn't look like she was in one of the seats either. Maybe she was only allowed to stay until she finished her drink. If he did pay for an upgrade for her, that wouldn't have been fair to the other two.

 

5 minutes ago, CarpeFelis said:

Speaking of Caroline and Marion… why the hell did they have Max up there in first class with them? Isn’t she more than enough of a spoiled little bitch already? From Sam’s comment while she was there (something like “what are you doing here?”) I wondered if they’d bought Max a first class seat—which I wouldn’t allow if I were Sam, because Max doesn’t freaking deserve it—or if she was just hanging out there but not being thrown out by the flight attendant.

Didn't Max say something to Marion about him giving her a getaway she really needed? I wasn't sure if she meant the trip to England or the seat in first class. Since everybody was going to the UK it didn't seem like Marion was paying for everyone's ticket (and just making some of them sit in coach). So maybe he did somehow get her up there? And typically, Max had the nerve to suggest that she needed it as some sort of getaway from her difficult life of living in a lovely house with nothing to do all day that I've noticed.

5 minutes ago, CarpeFelis said:

And what was the deal with Duke taking forever and a day to hand over her passport and then throwing it at Sam from the top of the stairs? If my daughter had ever done that to me I’d have been pissed as hell, but Sam just puts up with this kind of crap from her kids.

I thought it was that she was horrified by the picture of herself since she hates her face so much now. 

[CarpeFelis]

1 minute ago, sistermagpie said:

I thought it was that she was horrified by the picture of herself since she hates her face so much now. 

Oh yeah, I’d forgotten that. Also Sam’s friend pointed out that she had braces in the picture. Still doesn’t explain why she threw it at Sam the way she did!

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, CarpeFelis said:

Speaking of Caroline and Marion… why the hell did they have Max up there in first class with them? Isn’t she more than enough of a spoiled little bitch already? From Sam’s comment while she was there (something like “what are you doing here?”) I wondered if they’d bought Max a first class seat—which I wouldn’t allow if I were Sam, because Max doesn’t freaking deserve it—or if she was just hanging out there but not being thrown out by the flight attendant.

 

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

Didn't Max say something to Marion about him giving her a getaway she really needed? I wasn't sure if she meant the trip to England or the seat in first class. Since everybody was going to the UK it didn't seem like Marion was paying for everyone's ticket (and just making some of them sit in coach). So maybe he did somehow get her up there? And typically, Max had the nerve to suggest that she needed it as some sort of getaway from her difficult life of living in a lovely house with nothing to do all day that I've noticed.

Max was initially sitting in economy next to Frankie, then she got up and walked away, and the next time we saw her she was sitting across from Marion in first class and sipping a drink. So even if they did upgrade her, it was a spontaneous decision and not planned. Sam did mention as they were boarding the plane what a pity it was that Marion's and Caroline's son wasn't coming with them. Maybe they had already booked a seat for their son, and him not coming was a last-minute change, so they let Max take his seat. But even then, something like that would have been settled as they were boarding, and not mid-flight.

Regarding the girls' passports, Sam would have needed everyone's passport numbers and expiration dates in order to book the plane tickets. And if anyone's passport was expired or within six months of expiration, she would have needed to get them renewed. I don't know about the US, but EU passports for people under 26 have to be renewed every five years (after 26 it's every ten years).

[heatherchandler]

17 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

 

Can I ask why you think Louis CK conceived of the show?  Pamela was an actor, writer, consulting producer and producer on his FX show.  She might be more known for her voice acting but she had done live action and had written for a show similar to what she did. I do think him backing her likely helped her get the show but I don't think he's the creative force behind it, especially since so much of it feels autobiographical.

He is listed as co-creator in the credits.  

[Door County Cherry]

35 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

He is listed as co-creator in the credits.  

I know but that doesn't mean it was his idea and that implication is what I was responding to.

He definitely had a heavy hand in getting this up and running on FX.  I don't dispute that. 

[heatherchandler]

39 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:

I know but that doesn't mean it was his idea and that implication is what I was responding to.

He definitely had a heavy hand in getting this up and running on FX.  I don't dispute that. 

True, it could be that he just opened the door for her to meet with FX.  Although I do recall interviews with them when the show first started, and he talked about writing many of the episodes with her.

[Faceplant]

21 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

And are we supposed to believe Sam actually did do a movie called Filthy Moms at some point?  I'm trying to decide whether it was soft core porn or some kind of gross out humor movie?   

At the end of the pilot episode way back in 2015, Sam is filming what looks like Cinemax after dark movie or something (with Bradley Whitford as her costar). I remember that scene because it seemed like Sam was too old to be making that kind of movie and wondering who the target audience would be. I did enjoy the behind the scenes of a career working actor parts of the show much more than the family drama parts. 

[possibilities]

The hero of this episode, in my opinion, is the flight attendant with the bracelet, who also got the angry dude to sit down and shut up.

Maybe Max didn't get tossed out of 1st class because she was acting like she belonged there, sipping her drink and sitting and chatting quietly vs standing in the aisle and making a lot of noise. Also, Marion and Caroline seemed to like Max's company, and to be annoyed by Sam. 

Max asking her mom if she's going to get fat (in the scene with the zoom memorial) and then weeping to Frankie about her existential sorrow... it's good I'm not a parent because I just don't have the patience. I find her tiresome. I don't know what her problem is and I honestly can't get over how anyone puts up with it.

Frankie was fine this week. I mean, honestly, she was likable. 

Duke was a petulant brat and I also think someone needs to pay more attention to figuring out what's going on with her, so she doesn't turn out like a more violent version of Max.

I know it's hard to deal with kids on flights, or really anywhere they're melting down. But at the same time, once they throw something at you, it's not funny. They guy was out of line but I'm not actually approving of the "laugh it off, they're just kids" approach, because it teaches the kids that they're cute when they're horrible. They then grow up to be like the out of line dude who obviously never learned manners, self-control, or perspective, either. A middle approach is just really needed.

Also, someone needs to rein in that on and off girlfriend on so many levels. Why are people on this show divided into those who act extremely obnoxious 90% of the time and those who put up with it 90% of the time? It wasn't always like this, was it? In the early seasons, people seemed to actually act like human beings and not all be either thugs or doormats.

Edited April 13, 2022 by possibilities

[Bluesky]

On 4/11/2022 at 11:54 PM, txhorns79 said:

I'm pretty sure he has a co-creator credit with Pamela Adlon for Better Things, and was heavily involved in the series until his scandal.

He wrote for a lot of famous comedians and did a lot more than stand up.  I liked his show better than this one.   

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I know it's hard to deal with kids on flights, or really anywhere they're melting down. But at the same time, once they throw something at you, it's not funny. They guy was out of line but I'm not actually approving of the "laugh it off, they're just kids" approach, because it teaches the kids that they're cute when they're horrible. They then grow up to be like the out of line dude who obviously never learned manners, self-control, or perspective, either. A middle approach is just really needed.

 

I'm not suggesting that the way the guy acted about the kid was acceptable , but I would not want to be a captive audience to a child carrying on for hours either.  Sam's complete tolerance looked like a clue to how she raised spoiled brats.

[aghst]

2 hours ago, Bluesky said:

He wrote for a lot of famous comedians and did a lot more than stand up.  I liked his show better than this one.   

Yup not only were they better behaved, show was more about him not the children.

50 minutes ago, Suzn said:

I'm not suggesting that the way the guy acted about the kid was acceptable , but I would not want to be a captive audience to a child carrying on for hours either.  Sam's complete tolerance looked like a clue to how she raised spoiled brats.

Sam even said something about how she raised her kids while trying to put down the angry guy.

[aghst]

Sam seems to object to the term or the name Karen, first at the consulate and then calling he guy a Karen.

does she think the term is sexist or misogynistic or that there haven’t been badly-behaving , racist people who happened to be white women above a certain age?

Edited April 13, 2022 by aghst

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, aghst said:

Sam seems to object to the term or the name Karen, first at the consulate and then calling he guy a Karen.

does she think the term is sexist or misogynistic or that there haven’t been badly-behaving , racist people who happened to be white women above a certain age?

I thought she was just calling him a Karen because of his whole "I want to speak to the manager of this plane" attitude and then just rambled on about making the term unisex since it was a guy. I think she called him Scottish Karen maybe?

I don't remember what the kid was doing, btw. Was he being a brat? I just remember that the guy seemed to start complaining as they sat down and the kid was a toddler so not really yet old enough to be that firmly in control at all times. Sometimes toddler's gonna toddler.

I used to work in a children's bookstore and I've witnessed plenty of parents who seem to be appropriately keeping the kid in check and still sometimes just have to wait out a tantrum or stares when the kid suddenly gets loud.

[possibilities]

He lost it when the kid threw something that hit him in the face. Even if you can't control a toddler, you can apologize when they throw something that hits someone in the face. He was still out of line, though, too.

[TVbitch]

I can't believe I am the only one hate watching this ...there is so much to hate. Sam helping to handle a "karen" on an airplane in the last episode was especially cringe-worthy. It's like Pam A. sits down to write a script thinking: "Hmm, what other situation will showcase how cool, adorable, put upon, likeable, sane, patient and wonderful Sam is." 

[possibilities]

A lot of us are hate-watching. Practically the entire thread is hate-watchers at this point.

 

[Suzn]

37 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

I can't believe I am the only one hate watching this ...there is so much to hate. Sam helping to handle a "karen" on an airplane in the last episode was especially cringe-worthy. It's like Pam A. sits down to write a script thinking: "Hmm, what other situation will showcase how cool, adorable, put upon, likeable, sane, patient and wonderful Sam is." 

 

17 minutes ago, possibilities said:

A lot of us are hate-watching. Practically the entire thread is hate-watchers at this point.

 

I don't typically waste my time with hate watching, but I'm afraid that's what I'm doing at this point.  Pamela does seem to have an unrealistically high opinion of herself and her character, Sam, and all I can think after the most recent episode is that  I don't like her at all.  Most of the other characters are obnoxious, so yeah, hate watching.

[heatherchandler]

41 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

I can't believe I am the only one hate watching this ...there is so much to hate. Sam helping to handle a "karen" on an airplane in the last episode was especially cringe-worthy. It's like Pam A. sits down to write a script thinking: "Hmm, what other situation will showcase how cool, adorable, put upon, likeable, sane, patient and wonderful Sam is." 

Oh no you are not, like @possibilities said, a lot of us are hate watching.  It is just eye-roll after eye-roll.  Of course she has to write that she stood up to a "Karen."  It is total sanctimony.  

[TVbitch]

Good to know I am not alone.

One thing that cracks me up is how in almost every episode, whenever Sam is any situation where someone might be giving her the side eye (i.e., she is being annoying holding up the school drop off line), some random celebrity or other big shot will just happen to pass by and run over to embrace her and make it clear to the room what a goddamn treasure she is. 

I don't generally hate watch either @Suzn, but sometimes I do get seduced by the dark snarky side. Usually I start out watching in earnest and then a show gets worse and worse and for some reason I don't just walk away. Maybe I need to see how eye-rollingly bad it can possibly get. (And just like that, I ended up watching And Just Like That, too!) : D

[Suzn]

11 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

Good to know I am not alone.

One thing that cracks me up is how in almost every episode, whenever Sam is any situation where someone might be giving her the side eye (i.e., she is being annoying holding up the school drop off line), some random celebrity or other big shot will just happen to pass by and run over to embrace her and make it clear to the room what a goddamn treasure she is. 

I don't generally hate watch either @Suzn, but sometimes I do get seduced by the dark snarky side. Usually I start out watching in earnest and then a show gets worse and worse and for some reason I don't just walk away. Maybe I need to see how eye-rollingly bad it can possibly get. (And just like that, I ended up watching And Just Like That, too!) : D

I never noticed that thing before - getting the demonstration of what a treasure she is!  I am realizing what a ego trip this entire show is.

That's how I get sucked into hate watching occasionally when a show gets progressively worse and the balance of good to bad shifts.  At this point I'm just staying to the bitter end, hate watching.

[possibilities]

I really don't think it was this bad in the beginning. I think that's how a lot of us got sucked in.

[Door County Cherry]

I'm not hate watching.  I am not engaged enough to hate watch.  But I do sometimes feel like I get stuck in auteur hell with FX shows like Louie, Atlanta and Better Things like I should like the shows more than I do. 

Louie started off good too until I started noticing that every woman, no matter how young or beautiful, wanted to fuck him.  He even had a love story with a woman he couldn't communicate with.  Oh, he also assaulted Adlon's character so that was fun. 

 

[gingerella]

On 8/11/2020 at 6:26 PM, Ottis said:

This show is better than that.

Is it though? Because from where I sit, it's been devolving into a narcissistic, self-indulgent, quasi-biographical but hey let's make it funnier shit show. I'm so over Sam behaving like a doofus tomboy off their ADHD meds. It's just not entertaining at all for me, it's indulgent and I'm sure the producers both think they're clever as hell, but they're really not. Horrible kids, horrible gran, horrible ex, doofus friends, self obsessed friends, doofus mother. What's entertaining about that? So for me, it's not better than that because it's been sinking into the muck 'n mire for a long time now.

[gesundheit]

I feel like this episode's writers were trying to capitalize on the whole spate of "lunatics having meltdowns about their civil rights on airplanes" in the past 2 years, but since there's no pandemic on the show, it didn't really track with the actual content. 

I think Sam would be a fun friend but I wouldn't want to sit next to her and her family on an airplane, I can say that much!

[Faceplant]

On 4/15/2022 at 2:49 PM, gingerella said:

I'm so over Sam behaving like a doofus tomboy off their ADHD meds. 

This perfectly sums up Sam's personality. Instead of communicating, she mumbles, grunts, and rolls her eyes through every situation. I remember this season being annoyed by her reactions to her ex-husband. Their interactions are awkward and hostile on her end, awkward and clueless on his end. They can't get through the simplest of conversations without stumbling over each other's words. His character is written as so dull and humorless that it's hard to see how Sam married him, let alone had three children with him. It would have been more interesting to write him as this likeable and charming guy, but also he could still be an absentee father. 

[Suzn]

13 hours ago, Faceplant said:

This perfectly sums up Sam's personality. Instead of communicating, she mumbles, grunts, and rolls her eyes through every situation. I remember this season being annoyed by her reactions to her ex-husband. Their interactions are awkward and hostile on her end, awkward and clueless on his end. They can't get through the simplest of conversations without stumbling over each other's words. His character is written as so dull and humorless that it's hard to see how Sam married him, let alone had three children with him. It would have been more interesting to write him as this likeable and charming guy, but also he could still be an absentee father. 

So true!  Her inability to clearly, directly express herself is so juvenile and annoying.

[SoMuchTV]

I hope this isn't considered spoilery, but if you guys feel this way after S4, I don't think S5 is going to help.

[Suzn]

3 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

I hope this isn't considered spoilery, but if you guys feel this way after S4, I don't think S5 is going to help.

S4 came to the top and I think I'm not the only one writing about S5 on it.

[Door County Cherry]

Oops. 

I also didn't realize the discussion was taking place in the wrong thread so I've moved it to the right thread. 

 

[heatherchandler]

What was the song they played in the beginning?