Better Things Season 5 Discussion

[SunnyBeBe]

I watched the new episodes from this season.  The daughters are still rude and annoying. And that’s because their mom allows it.  I struggle to see that they are genuinely good people.  They have a cruel streak in them.

 I noticed they had the student paired with Sam at the school reading a sour puss too.  Why?  I guess that’s humorous to them for some reason.  I would find it more amusing to see something other than a sarcastic teen eye rolling Sam.  
 

I haven’t followed regularly over the last few seasons. Sam’s mom must have dementia if she didn’t recall that her granddaughter didn’t actually have a broken nose and, she didn’t recall filing a police report of the scam.  That’s concerning. She needs intervention.  Plus, wasn’t she telling Sam she had to give her her PIN codes?  Why is Sam ignoring this?  
 

Sam opens the door to the guy picking up the cell phone without even checking to see who’s there.  Who does that?  
 

That was a nice spread Sam put on the coffee table, but do people in LA eat that many carbs?  Man, that was a lot of carbs.  
 

I didn’t get the thing about Sam not being finance savvy either.  She’s had to juggle a lot over the years.  Wouldn’t she know she had bad credit beforehand?

Edited March 14, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[ItCouldBeWorse]

So, Sam does own her mother's house.  Apparently, Marion wasn't/isn't interested in paying for housing for Phil, but if he can afford a pen that costs more than Sam's car, and if Sam would actually tell Phil that she needed to sell the latter's house to save Sam's own, than it would be decent if Marion paid for Phil's new condo.

[sistermagpie]

11 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

So, Sam does own her mother's house.  Apparently, Marion wasn't/isn't interested in paying for housing for Phil, but if he can afford a pen that costs more than Sam's car, and if Sam would actually tell Phil that she needed to sell the latter's house to save Sam's own, than it would be decent if Marion paid for Phil's new condo.

My jaw dropped learning she's paying for this woman to live in a 3 bedroom house alone. Jeez. She obviously doens't need to sell her own house yet--she's got 3 kids still at home, for goodness sake. But a second house like that for Phil?

Sam's jokes about the pronouns were sooo tedious, but let's face it, Frankie loves having something to feel superior about so she probably likes it. The "don't say guys" thing is just annoying.

Duke is still the most likeable and the actress is still really good. I was worried when she was vaping or whatever that was. Seemed like she was on the edge of becoming terrible.

Max seems to do nothing but move in and out of places. How long was she even in that apartment and why did she have to leave? Did she not have a job? 

[txhorns79]

3 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

 

Max seems to do nothing but move in and out of places. How long was she even in that apartment and why did she have to leave? Did she not have a job? 

I wouldn't be shocked if it was a like mother/like daughter situation where Max is overextended and had to leave her apartment in lieu of being evicted. 

6 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

My jaw dropped learning she's paying for this woman to live in a 3 bedroom house alone. Jeez. She obviously doesn't need to sell her own house yet--she's got 3 kids still at home, for goodness sake. But a second house like that for Phil?

In fairness, Max has two (?) adult children at home and one dependent.  The older two really should be paying some kind of rent. 

And yeah, aside from perhaps the convenience of having Phil across the street, there's no reason she needs a 3 bedroom home when much more reasonable options exist.       

[BC4ME]

I realize this is TV and we should not take things too literally but the actress who plays Phil is only 69 and not that close to 83 like they said. She's only 14 years older than Pamela IRL. I get that she does look older than 69 though.   

[sistermagpie]

10 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I wouldn't be shocked if it was a like mother/like daughter situation where Max is overextended and had to leave her apartment in lieu of being evicted. 

I would feel bad describing them as like mother like daughter, though. Sam is overextended for the reasons we know: she's got 5 dependents. She herself doesn't seem to live that extravagantly. It seems like sometimes she buys something expensive--she's got the 3 bedroom house for a single person for Phil and her own house and she bought that car etc. but in general she doesn't seem to live that extravagantly. And her brother was really jumping the gun about her house. He was practically kicking all the girls out on the street as if they were already settled elsewhere when all 3 live at home and one's in middle school. (I think Frankie might be paying something.)

Max, otoh, seems to spend money like water and barely be aware of it. Wasn't it just last season that she was running up monthly Uber bills in the thousands that her mom paid for? I don't know how much time had passed, but she seemed to have just moved into that apartment so it's surprising she'd be unable to pay for it that quickly without knowing beforehand she couldn't afford it.

Though also, I wonder if we're not supposed to completely believe her line about not wanting to be home. This is the girl who quit college after a few weeks and came home claiming she just wasn't being "challenged" enough so she may have just wanted to come home without warning. 

[aghst]

Max still doesn't tell Sam about the abortion?

When Sam tells her "I know" I thought she was going to reference the abortion.

Sam's finances are scrambled because those daughters are exhausting.  Now the young one is turning into a mopey teenager, feels inferior to her older sisters, who aren't so great.

The blunt truth is the old one is a screwup, passed up a chance to go to college and is setting herself up for a life of dependence on her mother and whatever inheritance she's expecting.

The middle one is also aimless.  She wants unconventional pronouns -- WTF is FAK? -- but as we saw from the previous episode, her peer is going to some Ivy League school and Sam believes Frankie is just as smart, could also be going to a good university.  Is she going to blow off college as well?

The young one was low drama compared to her sisters but seems to be headed towards being another PITA.  Fortunately this is the last season so we won't see that transformation.

 

OK, these episodes are 45 minutes long.  What are they doing with the extra time?  Earlier they had another scene of her cooking.  This time, it's her making cocktails or margaritas from scratch.

Then the whole scene in the cemetery of the rich and famous was filler.  Glad they appreciate the expensive and elaborate headstones for celebrities and some well-off people but what is it, another slice of life that means little other than this is how they spent their time this one day?

Or Duke and her friend in the antiques shop, with Duke not "getting it" until she saw that chest of old photos of strangers.

At least museums have some historical and cultural context, some chance to derive meaning.  There are Holocaust museums showing objects from the everyday lives of people who were sent to the camps, because these objects humanize otherwise faceless people who were victims of one of the greatest tragedies in history.  The antiques shop was about the possessions of random people whose belongings their survivor families sold off.  Do antiques collectors care that much about previous owners of these objects unless they were famous?

 

 

 

 

 

[sistermagpie]

52 minutes ago, aghst said:

Max still doesn't tell Sam about the abortion?

When Sam tells her "I know" I thought she was going to reference the abortion.

I think Max did too. Both Frankie and Max seemed to be making a drama out of telling their mother something that Sam will be fine with. While having no problem being rude about tons of other things that are worse.

52 minutes ago, aghst said:

At least museums have some historical and cultural context, some chance to derive meaning.  There are Holocaust museums showing objects from the everyday lives of people who were sent to the camps, because these objects humanize otherwise faceless people who were victims of one of the greatest tragedies in history.  The antiques shop was about the possessions of random people whose belongings their survivor families sold off.  Do antiques collectors care that much about previous owners of these objects unless they were famous?

I think the idea isn't that they care about the actual people, necessarily, but they like that there's a history to the object. I know there are people who make a hobby of buying old photos like the ones Duke was looking at and trying to return them to the families who often didn't intentionally get rid of them.

Personally, I was expecting Duke to buy that big box and assume that was another example of where Sam's money went!

 

[ichbin]

Those daughters have been written so damn exhausting!  Three children raised in an atmosphere of privilege and opportunities who wallow in the epitome of first world problems.  The youngest one who was the most tolerable in earlier seasons now has gone the  way of the older siblings.  Hey, Pamela, it's okay to show people actually feeling happy and content sometimes even when their lives occasionally are faced with very normal challenges.  I have to wonder why she chooses to depict most of her family as self-absorbed and selfish.

[possibilities]

My theory is that we're supposed to sympathize with Sam as the put upon mother of thankless children, but I find her unsympathetic because she is completely encouraging them to be horrible.

I think she wanted to put her mom next door, and so she bought what was next door. It's better than having the mom you only partly get along with living in your own house. I can't really fault anyone for housing their parent next door instead of dumping them somewhere else just to keep distance and lower the bills. Rich brother was trying to take some kind of moral high ground, but he's apparently rolling in dough and not helping mom at all, so he really shouldn't be quite so smug.

The mom's dementia was dealt with in a previous season. 

[heatherchandler]

21 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

So, Sam does own her mother's house.  Apparently, Marion wasn't/isn't interested in paying for housing for Phil, but if he can afford a pen that costs more than Sam's car, and if Sam would actually tell Phil that she needed to sell the latter's house to save Sam's own, than it would be decent if Marion paid for Phil's new condo.

Marion is wealthy, right?  Why doesn't he buy the house from Sam for his mom?  

 

10 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I would feel bad describing them as like mother like daughter, though. Sam is overextended for the reasons we know: she's got 5 dependents. She herself doesn't seem to live that extravagantly. It seems like sometimes she buys something expensive--she's got the 3 bedroom house for a single person for Phil and her own house and she bought that car etc. but in general she doesn't seem to live that extravagantly. And her brother was really jumping the gun about her house. He was practically kicking all the girls out on the street as if they were already settled elsewhere when all 3 live at home and one's in middle school. (I think Frankie might be paying something.)

 

Isn't Frankie in high school?  Some special gifted school?

[chocolatine]

21 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Duke is still the most likeable and the actress is still really good. I was worried when she was vaping or whatever that was. Seemed like she was on the edge of becoming terrible.

She was definitely vaping, and her friend said she was "medicating" so I assume it was some kind of marijuana product. Whatever the substance, vaping is horrible for the lungs, and Duke is what, 13 years old? I don't think she would have been able to get the vape pen and substance on her own through legal means, so I wonder if it was Xander or Sam who got them for her.

10 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Max, otoh, seems to spend money like water and barely be aware of it. Wasn't it just last season that she was running up monthly Uber bills in the thousands that her mom paid for? I don't know how much time had passed, but she seemed to have just moved into that apartment so it's surprising she'd be unable to pay for it that quickly without knowing beforehand she couldn't afford it.

I thought Max didn't get the apartment since Sam's credit wasn't good enough to co-sign the lease? I think she was living with a friend when she took the pregnancy test in the first episode, but it seems like that situation was temporary and she needed to either get her own place or move back in with Sam.

With the the real estate market being so hot right now, Sam can get a big chunk of cash by selling the house where Phil lives and moving Phil into assisted living, assuming she didn't refinance the mortgage multiple times. She should also ask Marion to pitch in something, even it's not 50/50. Based on the dates engraved on their father's tombstone, he died in 1995, so whatever money he left Phil is probably long gone now.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

18 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

Isn't Frankie in high school?  Some special gifted school?

She's working at what looks like Trader Joe's. Sam said she finished school early.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

6 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

She was definitely vaping, and her friend said she was "medicating" so I assume it was some kind of marijuana product. Whatever the substance, vaping is horrible for the lungs, and Duke is what, 13 years old? I don't think she would have been able to get the vape pen and substance on her own through legal means, so I wonder if it was Xander or Sam who got them for her.

No way that Sam did.  Maybe Xander, but I bet 13 year-olds can figure out a way to get it also.  It also wasn't completely clear, but it seemed like Duke and Pepper were more than just friends.  And Duke definitely needs to see a therapist.

[chocolatine]

Just now, ItCouldBeWorse said:

No way that Sam did.

I would really like to think so, but Sam has always been permissive with her daughters and never says no to them.

[sistermagpie]

16 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

Marion is wealthy, right?  Why doesn't he buy the house from Sam for his mom?  

 

Isn't Frankie in high school?  Some special gifted school?

At the beginning of the season Sam said something about Frankie having graduated early and now she was living at home. Sam didn't have to pay tuition for college at the moment and I thought she said something about Frankie using her salary to give Sam something. But as it's just a supermarket salary I don't know how much she's giving. Knowing Sam, she'd be praising her to the moon for giving her five dollars a week.

2 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I thought Max didn't get the apartment since Sam's credit wasn't good enough to co-sign the lease? I think she was living with a friend when she took the pregnancy test in the first episode, but it seems like that situation was temporary and she needed to either get her own place or move back in with Sam.

But wouldn't Sam have known that in that case? It seemed like Max's move back home happened on the spur of the moment so I assumed Max somehow had moved into the apartment she liked using someone else as a guarantor. Were we told something about her roommate situation actually ending? I forget. Max had cleaned out her entire room and had a mattress with her. That seems unlikely if she was just crashing with a friend. You could totally be right about her never having gotten that apartment, though. I just assumed when Max said she really liked the apartment that it meant she was living in it until she cleared out that day.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

16 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

Marion is wealthy, right?  Why doesn't he buy the house from Sam for his mom?  

He's probably wealthy because he's smart with his money. He also has a lot of resentment against Phil, who apparently was even less motherly to him then she was to Sam.

15 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

At the beginning of the season Sam said something about Frankie having graduated early and now she was living at home. Sam didn't have to pay tuition for college at the moment and I thought she said something about Frankie using her salary to give Sam something. But as it's just a supermarket salary I don't know how much she's giving. Knowing Sam, she'd be praising her to the moon for giving her five dollars a week.

But wouldn't Sam have known that in that case? It seemed like Max's move back home happened on the spur of the moment so I assumed Max somehow had moved into the apartment she liked using someone else as a guarantor. Were we told something about her roommate situation actually ending? I forget. Max had cleaned out her entire room and had a mattress with her. That seems unlikely if she was just crashing with a friend. You could totally be right about her never having gotten that apartment, though. I just assumed when Max said she really liked the apartment that it meant she was living in it until she cleared out that day.

Max bailed on watching the tv show with Sam last episode because she had to drive her roommate (I think) to the airport.  Maybe that meant she no longer could stay in that apartment.  I would be very surprised if she had gotten the new apartment.

Edited March 16, 2022 by ItCouldBeWorse

[chocolatine]

Just now, sistermagpie said:

But wouldn't Sam have known that in that case? It seemed like Max's move back home happened on the spur of the moment so I assumed Max somehow had moved into the apartment she liked using someone else as a guarantor. Were we told something about her roommate situation actually ending? I forget. Max had cleaned out her entire room and had a mattress with her. That seems unlikely if she was just crashing with a friend. You could totally be right about her never having gotten that apartment, though. I just assumed when Max said she really liked the apartment that it meant she was living in it until she cleared out that day.

We weren't given any definitive information about Max's living situation, so I was just guessing. Maybe Max was sub-leasing the room in her friend's apartment, maybe the friend moved in with a boyfriend and Max couldn't afford the entire apartment on her own, could be various reasons. I'm not surprised that Sam didn't know though, because I can totally see Max not telling her and just assuming she was welcome to move back in whenever she wanted. Notice how miffed she was when Sam told her that her old room was occupied and she had to move into a smaller room. Max is so entitled that she assumed Sam would keep her old room vacant for her forever and ever.

[SoMuchTV]

10 hours ago, aghst said:

The middle one is also aimless.  She wants unconventional pronouns -- WTF is FAK?

Do you mean FKA (formerly known as)?  As in, the room FKA as Duke’s? But that conversation was referring to the oldest and youngest, not the middle, so maybe not. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by SoMuchTV

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

We weren't given any definitive information about Max's living situation, so I was just guessing. Maybe Max was sub-leasing the room in her friend's apartment, maybe the friend moved in with a boyfriend and Max couldn't afford the entire apartment on her own, could be various reasons. I'm not surprised that Sam didn't know though, because I can totally see Max not telling her and just assuming she was welcome to move back in whenever she wanted. Notice how miffed she was when Sam told her that her old room was occupied and she had to move into a smaller room. Max is so entitled that she assumed Sam would keep her old room vacant for her forever and ever.

Duke's old room was supposed to become Frankie's music art room.  Max is lucky it's still empty.

Edited March 16, 2022 by ItCouldBeWorse

[sistermagpie]

9 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Max bailed on watching the tv show with Sam last episode because she had to drive her roommate (I think) to the airport.  Maybe that meant she no longer could stay in that apartment.  I would be very surprised if she had gotten the new apartment.

 

4 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

We weren't given any definitive information about Max's living situation, so I was just guessing. Maybe Max was sub-leasing the room in her friend's apartment, maybe the friend moved in with a boyfriend and Max couldn't afford the entire apartment on her own, could be various reasons. I'm not surprised that Sam didn't know though, because I can totally see Max not telling her and just assuming she was welcome to move back in whenever she wanted. Notice how miffed she was when Sam told her that her old room was occupied and she had to move into a smaller room. Max is so entitled that she assumed Sam would keep her old room vacant for her forever and ever.

Yeah, it seems like I might have been giving that walk-up apartment more attention than it deserved. It was maybe just a one episode dream that Sam "ruined" by not having the credit to back it up. Though I think Max's appearance back home might still be about her wanting to be at home rather than any true issue with rent or roommates. Among other things maybe that's why there was still the big moment when Max thought Sam was telling her she "knew" about the abortion.

2 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Duke's old room was supposed to become Frankie's music room.  Max is lucky it's still empty.

I thought it was a studio for Frankie being an artist. 

[possibilities]

Assisted living is not cheap. I don't know if it would actually save anything vs keeping mom at home, but it would definitely reduce mom's quality of life. 

I'd rather see her ex quit getting alimony since he's apparently as much a juvenile as her offspring. But I know alimony is not something Sam can just stop paying.

And I'd really like to see Marion help out. He's got the money, let him help with Mom.

I really don't faukt Sam for the mom situation. I fault her own parenting and how she's spoiling her kids.

Edited March 16, 2022 by possibilities

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

I thought it was a studio for Frankie being an artist. 

You are correct.  I will amend.

[heatherchandler]

12 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

She's working at what looks like Trader Joe's. Sam said she finished school early.

 

Oh, I remember that now, although I also remember thinking that if she graduated early, she must be super focused, and it is strange that a person like that would not want to go on to either further schooling or get into an internship or apprenticeship, if she is a creative-type.

 

 

12 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

At the beginning of the season Sam said something about Frankie having graduated early and now she was living at home. Sam didn't have to pay tuition for college at the moment and I thought she said something about Frankie using her salary to give Sam something. But as it's just a supermarket salary I don't know how much she's giving. Knowing Sam, she'd be praising her to the moon for giving her five dollars a week.

 

Yeah she would be thrilled with $5 a week, and bragging about it.

[Faceplant]

Max moves back home because she said she didn't have a choice. What does that mean? Did the apartment flood, catch on fire, become infested with cockroaches, what? Why wouldn't Sam ask? Max says she didn't call Sam to tell her she was coming because her phone died while she was driving the u-haul. Wouldn't you discuss that before even getting the u-haul? Maybe a text or something at least. Max doesn't say why she had to leave the apartment. Sam doesn't ask why she left the apartment, just gives her a margarita and lets her move her bed back upstairs. Neither one has any communication skills. If one of my kids needed to move back home, of course they could, but I would be asking a few questions and I would need at least a little notice to clear some space before the furniture comes back in the door.  I'm guessing the abortion will be revealed by the finale 

Frankie did graduate early and is working at the grocery store. Sam tries to ask her about her future plans, but Frankie ignores her and Sam lets it go. And on and on it goes, she never confronts Frankie. She just mumbles and mutters to herself. The season Frankie moved out for no apparent reason and then Sam just lets her come back home to take a bath and eat dinner, no questions asked. I'm so happy this is the final season. I used to like this show. Sam has always been bad at communicating, but there was more humor to it in the first few seasons. I really don't want to watch another cooking or margarita making montage. I don't remember if there were as many of those in the beginning seasons. It seems like Pamela is out of ideas for the show and just adds those in to fill time. 

I do like the actress that plays Duke. I didn't understand Sam getting offended because Duke wanted to talk and gossip with her friend in the car and not her mom. Duke is a teenager. In my experience, they like to pretend parents don't exist unless they need money or a ride. Unless they are being actively disrespectful, let them chat. Sam was obviously bothered about her ex-husband's new girlfriend. Why can't she just act like it doesn't bother her? She's an actor, right? So maybe start acting like a better parent and stop pulling all the faces and groaning.

I didn't really understand what it meant to hate watch a show before, but I finally get it now. Six more episodes. 

[Faceplant]

On 3/14/2022 at 10:44 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

I haven’t followed regularly over the last few seasons. Sam’s mom must have dementia if she didn’t recall that her granddaughter didn’t actually have a broken nose and, she didn’t recall filing a police report of the scam.  That’s concerning. She needs intervention.  Plus, wasn’t she telling Sam she had to give her her PIN codes?  Why is Sam ignoring this?  

Sam is ignoring it because that's what she does. It's what they all do. Her mom has been showing signs of dementia for a few seasons, but Sam won't even consider acknowledging it. Max moves back home and Sam shows no interest in asking her why. Sam asks Frankie what her plans are for the future and Frankie walks off and ignores her. Duke is texting with grown men and vaping while Sam ignores it. Sam's brother tries to help her with finances and she ignores his advice. 

[aghst]

Sam must not see her mother or her daughters as being in bad or poor situations.

Unless "Better Things" is meant to be ironic.

Guess she's mostly a happy person.  Some of the antics of the daughters would make other mothers pull their hair out and probably clash with their children.

But Sam half-heartedly tries to talk some sense, is rebuffed, drops it.

So "Better Things" is about denial and conflict avoidance?

 

I think the show is suppose to be "real" slices of life from a family of quirky people, starting with the gimmicky male names.

So all these scenes don't have some meaning other than people bicker a bit with each other but they love each other and get on with life, as these "real" moments in the show demonstrate.

Must be working though 98% RT over 5 seasons, 100% for Season 5.

 

 

[gesundheit]

On 3/15/2022 at 11:07 AM, aghst said:

OK, these episodes are 45 minutes long.  What are they doing with the extra time?  Earlier they had another scene of her cooking.  This time, it's her making cocktails or margaritas from scratch.

The second she walked into that kitchen and picked up fruit I put my head in my hands. I'm keenly aware that just because I myself find cooking/preparing anything from scratch to be an utterly tedious endeavor (it's so time-consuming! are people really just that chock-full of free time that they want to spend a half hour making one drink?), doesn't mean that folks the world over don't find it to be a meaningful activity. They clearly do! But even for people who enjoy doing that, is it enjoyable to watch? I really don't get it.

 

On 3/15/2022 at 10:09 PM, possibilities said:

Assisted living is not cheap. I don't know if it would actually save anything vs keeping mom at home, but it would definitely reduce mom's quality of life. 

 

And I'd really like to see Marion help out. He's got the money, let him help with Mom.

There are a lot of people with a pretty great quality of life in assisted living, they'd surely go with a really nice place. It's better than just leaving her alone all day, and a lot of the graduated assisted living places actually do give someone more of a sense of independence than having in-home care.

On the other hand, as I was saying above, Sam seems to have an awful lot of time on her hands, perhaps she could transport some of her hours-long kitchen activities to her mom's house.

And yes, Marion needs to help with Mom financially. I understood the historic reluctance, but they're just past that now. Time to help.

 

In other news, I liked the pronouns conversation, where Frankie kept trying to psych them both out with all that stuff about how it's a learning curve, an adjustment, and that's okay. I'm not quite sure why Frankie didn't take the opening to introduce new pronouns at that time when Sam opened the door to it, but I appreciate the long game of easing her into it.

Edited March 18, 2022 by gesundheit

[txhorns79]

Frankie actually apologized for being awful to her mother!  Growth!  I also enjoyed Sam being like "No, we're not going to do that," to most of the Feng Shui guy's suggestions.  

I so feel like Phil is still going to show up in San Francisco and her appeasement of Sam was a fake out, but we shall see.

And obviously, Duke telling off Phil, Max and Frankie for being extremely inconsiderate of Sam's feelings with the photo album was a nice moment.

 

[QQQQ]

When did Better Things turn into a cooking show? I don't cook but hate it when people don't tie their hair back while doing so. I also hate it when people use the stirring spoon to taste the food and then dip it right back into the pot.

 

Instead of Max living rent-free with Sam, she should move in with Phil. She could pay rent and/or help with caretaking responsibilities, errands, etc.

[SunnyBeBe]

2 hours ago, QQQQ said:

When did Better Things turn into a cooking show? I don't cook but hate it when people don't tie their hair back while doing so. I also hate it when people use the stirring spoon to taste the food and then dip it right back into the pot.

 

Instead of Max living rent-free with Sam, she should move in with Phil. She could pay rent and/or help with caretaking responsibilities, errands, etc.

Tasting from a spoon you’re cooking with is one of my pet peeves.  That’s fine if you’re cooking for yourself , but not others.  Lol. It’s not that I really think you might spread germs….it’s just the thought of it.  
 

Great idea about helping Phil, except people are often surprised at how much work is involved in caretaking seniors.  Once you get a good look at how they are living, you realize meds aren’t being taking correctly, nutrition is poor, hygiene neglected, etc.  Seniors often hide it due to shame and fear.   Other times, they don’t realize it’s happening.  

[aghst]

Did anything happen?

Sam struggles up some steps, makes borscht, the daughters prefer grandma’s chicken wings, walks out in a snit when the girls want to see old photos, gets in a little argument about nothing with her doctor’s receptionist, has a Feng Shui session where she shoots down every suggestion, has to talk her mother of going to San Francisco, then runs the temps.

Feng Shui guy was sensing all kinds of things except the snark and the loud eye rolls behind him.  Every suggestion was move this or move that and then when Sam says no, put on some colors instead.

What’s he cooking up next?

[Suzn]

10 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Frankie actually apologized for being awful to her mother!  Growth!  I also enjoyed Sam being like "No, we're not going to do that," to most of the Feng Shui guy's suggestions.  

I so feel like Phil is still going to show up in San Francisco and her appeasement of Sam was a fake out, but we shall see.

And obviously, Duke telling off Phil, Max and Frankie for being extremely inconsiderate of Sam's feelings with the photo album was a nice moment.

 

Surprising and gratifying that Frankie had the self-awareness of how she treated her mother and apologized and also gratifying that Duke stood up for her mother.  Max and Frankie have a long way to go though to being considerate and aware of their very privileged existence. 

I get very frustrated with Sam because she barely defends herself in any circumstance and when she does it is a very passive way.  I want to see her really go off on someone!  She sort of did with Phil.

[heatherchandler]

34 minutes ago, aghst said:

Did anything happen?

Sam struggles up some steps, makes borscht, the daughters prefer grandma’s chicken wings, walks out in a snit when the girls want to see old photos, gets in a little argument about nothing with her doctor’s receptionist, has a Feng Shui session where she shoots down every suggestion, has to talk her mother of going to San Francisco, then runs the temps.

Feng Shui guy was sensing all kinds of things except the snark and the loud eye rolls behind him.  Every suggestion was move this or move that and then when Sam says no, put on some colors instead.

What’s he cooking up next?

No, nothing happened.  Although I may have missed something good, as I fell asleep for a bit.

[circumvent]

This show is weird, full of weird people. Is this supposed to be close to real life stuff? Because I think it is beyond parody.

The girls are horrible, I can't stand any of them. End up feeling sorry for Sam, which is boring too. 

Frankie has no bounderies whatsoever and thinks people need to read her mind and act according to what she believes to be true at that moment. arrogant to the core. 

I am not sure if I like it or not, but I never feel satisfied at the end of the episode. It is like the intention of the sow is for us to hate watch it.

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Great idea about helping Phil, except people are often surprised at how much work is involved in caretaking seniors.  Once you get a good look at how they are living, you realize meds aren’t being taking correctly, nutrition is poor, hygiene neglected, etc.  Seniors often hide it due to shame and fear.   Other times, they don’t realize it’s happening.  

Max is surprised at how much work is involved in just about everything she wants so probably not the best job for her.

I did laugh when we started with more elaborate cooking. And was surprised when it didn't turn out Frankie was apologizing to Sam because she wanted something. It must have been one of the moments where she wanted to see herself as the mature, kind one.

[QQQQ]

I'm not saying Max moving in with Phil would be a long-term solution, but it's not like she's doing anything else to earn her keep. And if Phil isn't moving into a senior community or a smaller house, I think it would be better than living alone (at least there'd be another set of eyes on her and maybe Max would be more appreciative of Sam's load).

[chocolatine]

I know Phil is in the early stage of cognitive decline, but in what world did she think it would be a good idea to make Sam look at her wedding pictures, knowing everything that transpired between her and Xander?

I don't usually mind the cooking montages, but I hate borsch (I refuse to write it with a "t" because it doesn't have one in the Slavic languages). My mother always made me eat it until I was old enough to refuse. To this day I won't eat any dish that has red beets in it. It is a very time-intensive dish to prepare though, so Phil was a jerk to trot out the chicken wings.

I'm surprised that Frankie not only apologized but also gave Sam the money she got for the baseball cards. Maybe there's hope for her after all. 

[Soobs]

Every time there's a cooking montage (which is every episode) I think of this group heaving a collective groan.

When the feng shui guy was doing his thing, was Duke hearing voices or is she supposed to be actually psychic? Maybe she was high?

The office clerk at the doctor's office was an asshole but Sam responded so childishly it was hard to be on her side. And then she tried to drag the innocent lady who was just sitting there into it. It's one of this situations where even if she was in the right, when she responded that way, she ended up being wrong too.

I feel like this show perpetuates the L.A. asshole stereotype, which as a resident, I don't love. 

 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Soobs

[aghst]

Sam pushed back against the receptionist, who probably isn't making a lot of money and faces pushback from many patients like her.

But she's a doormat to her daughters.

Writers aren't interested in consistent characterization?

[voiceover]

Hey it’s Randall’s (This is Us) real dad!!

I think I should go back and watch this show’s first two seasons.  Because this smacks of a series that’s just gone on too long.  Which bums me out, because I reallyreally wanted to love it.

But: too many unlikeable people.  And I’m sorry to include Sam in this.  Bit of an overreax to being called “BossLady”, there.  Esp since there were things to be actually irked by.

[sistermagpie]

So no surprise that Phil of course showed up in San Francisco after being told she wasn't wanted because why miss a chance to be annoying?

But meanwhile...how old is Max at this point? Too old for Sam to be calling her worried it was just "too much" to ask her to stay home with two girls who are 13 themselves? Like, what did she have to do there exactly that was so hard? And how is she affording designer shoes? And do they just never walk the dog? It kept shitting in the house and Max seemed to consider diapers before walkng it. 

And Duke's whole personality is vaping now, I guess? Because it's so hard being 13 and very privileged. Frankie wasn't there, but I won't complain about that.

So why does Sam's producer friend have a kid on her show who has a nightmare stage mother and also can't act? Who cast him and why? If Sam could get fired from her Butter show you'd think Boston Kevin would be out. Sometimes it seems like the thesis of the show is that if you're annoying and self-centered your life will be fantastic and normal people will just cater to you.

[txhorns79]

7 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

 

So why does Sam's producer friend have a kid on her show who has a nightmare stage mother and also can't act? Who cast him and why? If Sam could get fired from her Butter show you'd think Boston Kevin would be out. Sometimes it seems like the thesis of the show is that if you're annoying and self-centered your life will be fantastic and normal people will just cater to you.

Sometimes actors are cast more for their particular look than ability to act.  I just figured the kid was essentially a walking catch phrase, and they heavily coach him through any other stuff he has to do.

And of course Phil showed up in San Francisco.  I will say I thought she looked really good in that outfit, so there was that. 

I did enjoy the episode.  It was interesting to see Sam in director mode, and watching her play the politics of the set.  I did kind of wish she had some chance to tell off the obnoxious AD, even if in reality, that probably would have ensured she was not asked back. 

[Suzn]

It's so frustrating to watch Sam.  She just dithers around and apparently is incapable of ever directly expressing herself.  Why couldn't she just tell the idiot kid how the line should be said instead of offering more confusing examples of how to do it.  She continually takes shit from people without every making the definitive statement occasionally.

It was good to see Max get a glimpse of adult responsibility.  It was not such an amazing accomplishment though - she is an adult now. 

On an unrelated note, why does Sam wear her jeans so low that they are baggy below her ass?

Edited March 29, 2022 by Suzn

[voiceover]

Just shuffling through a few reviews, and found out Monty Python’s “Galaxy Song” was part of the first ep of the season soundtrack.  Boy did that make this whole thing click into place for me!

Brilliantly suits Pamela Adlon’s/Sam’s vibe, to the point where I think it should be the closing credits music: “And pray that there’s intelligent life somewhere out in space, ‘cos there’s bugger-all down here on earth!”

[aghst]

2 hours ago, Suzn said:

It's so frustrating to watch Sam.  She just dithers around and apparently is incapable of ever directly expressing herself.  Why couldn't she just tell the idiot kid how the line should be said instead of offering more confusing examples of how to do it.  She continually takes shit from people without every making the occasion definitive statement.

It was good to see Max get a glimpse of adult responsibility.  It was not such an amazing accomplishment though - she is an adult now. 

On an unrelated note, why does Sam wear her jeans so low that they are baggy below her ass?

 

She was a doormat on the set to the kid, the mother and then the lead male guy.  I don't know if TV show directors try that hard or have the nonchalant attitude of Elijah -- it's just a network show.

(well maybe it won't be as crappy as The Chi)

But she wants to own her mother, deign to sit down with her while she takes abuse from coworkers and her daughters.

They didn't have time for a cooking montage on this episode but they had a mini montage of Sam stuffing hard boiled eggs and bacon a couple of times.

So they've had these dogs of how long but they're not housebroken?  Or not let out into the yard or taken for walks?

And what was with the cold open of the old lady throwing an e-scooter out of her path and Sam watching while driving by?

Some of the scenes look like some random shit they throw in.

[txhorns79]

6 hours ago, aghst said:

 

She was a doormat on the set to the kid, the mother and then the lead male guy.  I don't know if TV show directors try that hard or have the nonchalant attitude of Elijah -- it's just a network show.

I think in her professional life, Sam has a very get along to go along attitude.  I vaguely recall a few seasons ago where the show treated it like it was a big deal when Sam stood up for herself (and possibly a child actor(?)) on one of her film shoots where she felt the director or whomever was putting them in an unsafe situation.

I think Sam also mentioned she has not had a lot of directing jobs, so I would guess she is trying to avoid doing anything that could affect future work, like getting into it with a stage mom, or with her friend that was very rude to her when she tried to give him direction.

[Suzn]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I think in her professional life, Sam has a very get along to go along attitude.  I vaguely recall a few seasons ago where the show treated it like it was a big deal when Sam stood up for herself (and possibly a child actor(?)) on one of her film shoots where she felt the director or whomever was putting them in an unsafe situation.

I think Sam also mentioned she has not had a lot of directing jobs, so I would guess she is trying to avoid doing anything that could affect future work, like getting into it with a stage mom, or with her friend that was very rude to her when she tried to give him direction.

I don't think everything calls for making a big deal or conflict, but I would like to see her make a clear declarative statement about what she thinks once in a while. That can be done tactfully and doesn't have to be confrontationally.  All she ever does is squirm and make faces.  She seems incapable of expressing what she thinks or feels.

[sistermagpie]

12 hours ago, Suzn said:

It's so frustrating to watch Sam.  She just dithers around and apparently is incapable of ever directly expressing herself.  Why couldn't she just tell the idiot kid how the line should be said instead of offering more confusing examples of how to do it. 

 

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I think in her professional life, Sam has a very get along to go along attitude.  I vaguely recall a few seasons ago where the show treated it like it was a big deal when Sam stood up for herself (and possibly a child actor(?)) on one of her film shoots where she felt the director or whomever was putting them in an unsafe situation.

I think Sam also mentioned she has not had a lot of directing jobs, so I would guess she is trying to avoid doing anything that could affect future work, like getting into it with a stage mom, or with her friend that was very rude to her when she tried to give him direction.

I think with the kid it's also down to Sam being an actor and having been a child actor. Her examples weren't confusing at all, particularly to a professional kid who allegedly takes his job so seriously (but not to a regular kid either!).  Just giving him a line-reading would have been a last resort--and let's face it, it obviously would have gotten the exact same response because the kid couldn't hear the difference in anything he was saying. She was being a very good director with the kid, probably identifying with him. Which is why it would make sense if he got the job because of connections or something--that kid's look isn't so unique to put up with. He can be a model if he just looks good. Maybe his part is usually very small and Sam's the only person to have put effort into trying to make him act. Since he seems to have had enough trouble that his therapist had to limit his takes, he's probably been given line readings at some point.

It just made me think about somebody I knew who was called in to coach the kid actor (son of a celebrity) who was cast in a movie. The guy had a great rep/resume coaching kid actors and the director himself was a former kid actor. But this kid was so hopeless and unable to follow direction they wound up having to do what both of them as professionals would never want to do with a kid actor, which was trick him into a perfomance like you would a dog. 

Ironically, in the end I believe the kid got pretty good reviews--but very little more work, if any!

[aghst]

She could take it easy on the kid but she could have gone hard at the stage mom.

Doesn't time cost money on sets?