Secrets Of Playboy

[Me from ME]

I hope someone is asked what they know about the tunnels which were supposed to link the mansion to the houses of nearby neighbors, namely James Caan, Kirk Douglas, Warren Beatty and Jack Nicholson. Somewhere on the internet I have seen the builder's plans for them but of course it all may be an urban legend and the blueprints might have been faked as well.

https://www.ocregister.com/2015/03/30/secret-tunnels-were-built-under-the-playboy-mansion-to-give-stars-easy-access-magazine-says/

 

The tunnels were discussed  at length a few years back. I once worked for a hospital where underground tunnels were built to link several buildings that were a distance away.  They had been retrofitted after the original building had been constructed. Using them was the fastest way from point A to point B, and, they were nice to use in cold and stormy weather.

[Cinnabon]

7 hours ago, chediavolo said:

Or Gay but could not admit it to himself? Into degrading females? An all around nasty piece of shit? Have some problems with this show but boy do I wish these people had come out while this schmuck was still alive & cognizant. 

He did openly state in interviews that he sometimes enjoyed sex with men, at least in group sex situations. So yes, he was bisexual. 

5 hours ago, MCMLXXVII said:

During the GND years and after, I believe the mansion was owned by Playboy Corporate and he was renting each bedroom for several thousand a month? So it might not have been technically “his” to refurbish, but you think they’d do the work if he complained enough. 

I do remember hearing that it was owned by corporate, too. But he paid his many “girlfriends” when he lived there. They didn’t pay him for the rooms.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Cinnabon

[RealHousewife]

5 hours ago, qtpye said:

Wasn't she the Playmate of the Millennium?

Very pretty.

A refreshing change from the bleached blonde look.

Yes she was.

Holly said Dasha was the prettiest woman she ever saw.  

IKR. Nothing against Pamela Anderson or Hef's girlfriends looks, but I didn't even know Playboy featured women like Dasha until I watched GND. I thought all Playboy models had bleached blonde hair, dark tans and big, fake boobs.

19 hours ago, qtpye said:

I heard that he thought his heyday was the 70s and he liked to keep the mansion frozen in time. He actually has some sort of ancient stereo system in his room.

However, that does not excuse him from not changing the shit-stained carpets.

Seriously. I understand hoarding or not keeping a house completely organized. I have some stuff I need to organize myself. But there's disorganized/messy and plain nasty. 

[Me from ME]

Has anyone watched Holly's World? I'm a little skeptical about her feelings toward Hef. After she had moved out of the mansion (and apparently had stayed with Mary for 6 months) after she had moved to Las Vegas and started starring in her show she went back to the mansion to "congratulate" Hef on his engagement.

First, she visited Mary in her office and asked her if Hef was happy with Crystal. (I have got to hand it to Mary, for being very truthful yet diplomatic in telling Holly that she had been missed  but that Hef and Crystal were very happy with each other.)

Then, Hef met her while she was visiting with the animals. She had tears in her eyes and told him that she was glad that he was happy. They later went into the mansion where she gave Hef a hand drawn comic book in miniature to go with the exact replica of Hef's childhood home that she had commissioned for him but had been completed after she had left. Crystal came down to visit and Holly threatened her (half jokingly) that she had better take good care of Hef.

Okay, it might have been scripted but she did genuinely seem sad regardless of the things she was saying to appear to be happy for Hef and happy in her own life.

YMMV

[chediavolo]

1 hour ago, Me from ME said:

Has anyone watched Holly's World? I'm a little skeptical about her feelings toward Hef. After she had moved out of the mansion (and apparently had stayed with Mary for 6 months) after she had moved to Las Vegas and started starring in her show she went back to the mansion to "congratulate" Hef on his engagement.

First, she visited Mary in her office and asked her if Hef was happy with Crystal. (I have got to hand it to Mary, for being very truthful yet diplomatic in telling Holly that she had been missed  but that Hef and Crystal were very happy with each other.)

Then, Hef met her while she was visiting with the animals. She had tears in her eyes and told him that she was glad that he was happy. They later went into the mansion where she gave Hef a hand drawn comic book in miniature to go with the exact replica of Hef's childhood home that she had commissioned for him but had been completed after she had left. Crystal came down to visit and Holly threatened her (half jokingly) that she had better take good care of Hef.

Okay, it might have been scripted but she did genuinely seem sad regardless of the things she was saying to appear to be happy for Hef and happy in her own life.

YMMV

I think we have to be skeptical of all these people. It’s just so shady how no one came forward in all those years. Now they are speaking out when Hefner is dead. Why not when he was older at  least? Did he have something on them? Reminds  me of another recent scenario that I’m sure we are not allowed to mention which also is frustratingly insane. I believe Hefner was a repulsive misogynistic filthy pig but some of these people that knew what was going on and put a Disgusting job ahead of humanity need to check themselves. 

[Atlanta]

If anyone is interested, here is a link for Jill Ann's Hefnerland.

https://hefnerland.blogspot.com/2006/09/hefnerland-this-book-is-ne_115855304789758871.html

[Gemma Violet]

On 3/23/2022 at 10:21 PM, CeeBeeGee said:

I'm not sure how much she showed--I don't think she was a Playmate and I remember and interview where she said "back then, you could get away with showing some shoulder and not the whole business" (paraphrasing).)

 

On 3/24/2022 at 6:28 AM, chediavolo said:

She appeared nude. 

 

On 3/24/2022 at 11:16 AM, CeeBeeGee said:

This (the interview) was long time ago--at least 20 years, it's definitely possible I remembered incorrectly. I remember they showed a picture wherein she had (IIRC) a blanket that she was holding up to her breasts and she was looking over her shoulder to the camera. Maybe what she meant was it was before they started showing more than breasts (the series referred to that, when they started becoming more hardcore, to compete with Penthouse).

I definitely have a memory of seeing a photo of Barbi Benton totally nude.  I think she was outside walking around the mansion grounds, or maybe inside--I don't remember exactly.  I don't know if she was ever a playmate, but she sure wasn't shy.

[Atlanta]

Ugh. Reading the Jill Ann book and here's a part about Michelle's daughter (don't think that's her real name):

Quote

Michelle’s daughter flew out of their bedroom. I asked her what was wrong. She moved her eyes up and motioned her head towards the bedroom. I frowned. I didn’t understand. She took me over to the other end of the living room and said very quietly that the camera light just came on. I wanted to know where it was. She said it was between the plants right above the closet in the middle. I wanted to know how she knew, and she told me she could see the red dot of light. I wanted to see this. She looked a little frightened but led me into the room and motioned with her eyes where I should look. She started showing me pictures of her mom to act like we were doing other things than looking for the camera. I sat on the bed for a moment and commented on how cozy a room it was. We left, and I told her that I didn’t see it. She said he wasn’t watching at the moment. She wanted to know if I had found the one in my room. I hadn’t but asked her if she knew where it was. We couldn’t locate it using the same ruse we had in her room.
I couldn’t understand why there was a camera in their room.

What about the thought of the twelve-year-old having to undress? Hopefully she was smart enough to stop undressing in the room and went to the bathroom to do so. Maybe Hef got off on seeing Michelle just watching TV or maybe he was insanely jealous and was making sure she didn’t have any unwelcome visitors. Whatever it was I thought it was creepy.

Wish I could find the pictures that went with the book.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Atlanta

[Cinnabon]

6 hours ago, Atlanta said:

If anyone is interested, here is a link for Jill Ann's Hefnerland.

https://hefnerland.blogspot.com/2006/09/hefnerland-this-book-is-ne_115855304789758871.html

I read that years ago and it’s what truly opened my eyes to the utter depravity that went on. And that Hef’s live-in girlfriends were part of it and procured young women for him to take advantage of. Those included Holly and Bridget. Holly owned her role in that in her book, but Bridget has not. And she should. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Cinnabon

[Cinnabon]

3 hours ago, Atlanta said:

Ugh. Reading the Jill Ann book and here's a part about Michelle's daughter (don't think that's her real name):

Wish I could find the pictures that went with the book.

This book is also worth a read if you can find it - “Bunny Tales: Behind Closed Doors at the Playboy Mansion.” The writer is a woman who was a one of Hef’s girlfriends at the mansion just prior to Holly moving in. 

[Atlanta]

From what Holly has said, Bridget is writing a book. Hopefully she apologizes for that.

[Cinnabon]

8 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

From what Holly has said, Bridget is writing a book. Hopefully she apologizes for that.

I’ll believe it when I see it. 

[1011101010001]

I wouldn’t be so sure he didn’t have cameras In the bathrooms as well.  Dude was into bestiality and snuff, Ella probably wasn’t the only scat he was into.

[MsTree]

17 hours ago, Me from ME said:

Has anyone watched Holly's World? I'm a little skeptical about her feelings toward Hef. After she had moved out of the mansion (and apparently had stayed with Mary for 6 months) after she had moved to Las Vegas and started starring in her show she went back to the mansion to "congratulate" Hef on his engagement.

First, she visited Mary in her office and asked her if Hef was happy with Crystal. (I have got to hand it to Mary, for being very truthful yet diplomatic in telling Holly that she had been missed  but that Hef and Crystal were very happy with each other.)

Then, Hef met her while she was visiting with the animals. She had tears in her eyes and told him that she was glad that he was happy. They later went into the mansion where she gave Hef a hand drawn comic book in miniature to go with the exact replica of Hef's childhood home that she had commissioned for him but had been completed after she had left. Crystal came down to visit and Holly threatened her (half jokingly) that she had better take good care of Hef.

Okay, it might have been scripted but she did genuinely seem sad regardless of the things she was saying to appear to be happy for Hef and happy in her own life.

YMMV

This is exactly why I wish they wouldn't have started the "secrets" with Holly. This is a girl who is spitting out sour grapes because Hef was never going to marry her. She is bitter, and no doubt feels 'used'...but it was her choice to hang around until it was spelled out for her in no uncertain terms. 

[TrixieTrue]

22 hours ago, Me from ME said:

Has anyone watched Holly's World? I'm a little skeptical about her feelings toward Hef. After she had moved out of the mansion (and apparently had stayed with Mary for 6 months) after she had moved to Las Vegas and started starring in her show she went back to the mansion to "congratulate" Hef on his engagement.

First, she visited Mary in her office and asked her if Hef was happy with Crystal. (I have got to hand it to Mary, for being very truthful yet diplomatic in telling Holly that she had been missed  but that Hef and Crystal were very happy with each other.)

Then, Hef met her while she was visiting with the animals. She had tears in her eyes and told him that she was glad that he was happy. They later went into the mansion where she gave Hef a hand drawn comic book in miniature to go with the exact replica of Hef's childhood home that she had commissioned for him but had been completed after she had left. Crystal came down to visit and Holly threatened her (half jokingly) that she had better take good care of Hef.

Okay, it might have been scripted but she did genuinely seem sad regardless of the things she was saying to appear to be happy for Hef and happy in her own life.

YMMV

Holly addressed tis somewhat in her YouTube commentary. She basically said that all the shows were produced by E and that there was an agreement that they would all do each other's shows. So Holly went back to the Mansion for Girls Next Door, Hef and Crystal/twins appeared on Holly's World, and I'm not sure about Kendra's show. Holly, Bridget, and Kendra filmed a baby shower at Mary's house for Girls Next Door. 

The original Girls were more popular than the replacements, so it helped to improve the viewing numbers on Girls Next Door, and I think the appeal of a "confrontation" probably gave Holly nigher numbers, too. 

Holly was married and has two kids from that relationship. She seems to really adore her kids and she wouldn't have them if she had stayed with Hef. I don't think she's bitter, but I think she's used to people commenting on how they wish she'd married Hef or how much fun she must have had back then and finds it disturbing. It's been a long time since she left and I imagine she's dealt with things in therapy. Her book came out when Hef was alive, so he was able to, and did, respond to it. 

I saw on Crystal's insta that she is going to write a book. I've also seen interviews where she said that she hasn't been comfortable talking about the mansion. So who knows what she'll say. 

[Atlanta]

Jill Ann's book was written when there were way more girlfriends. I wonder if things changed when it down to three? I haven't read Izabella's book, but Holly's (IIRC) doesn't get into the nitty gritty (and ew factor) of what going out Wednesdays and Fridays meant. RIP Jill. I think her book is the only one that 'goes there.'

Holly does talk about how the ratings fell when the three were gone and E thought they could be replaced with other random blondes. I'm sure that was Hefner's point of view. The women were the stars of the show, not him and I bet he hated that, but the show was called "The Girls Next Door" and not "The Creepy Old Man Next Door."

Holly has probably had to have A LOT of therapy to deal with having been with him all those years. I think a lot of the past girlfriends had a Stockholm situation going on. 

Doesn't Izabella have a law degree from Pepperdine? Why on earth would she waste time at the mansion? Go tackle the world of law! Bridget has a Masters and I didn't understand that either.

[RealHousewife]

On 3/27/2022 at 8:22 AM, Me from ME said:

Has anyone watched Holly's World? I'm a little skeptical about her feelings toward Hef. After she had moved out of the mansion (and apparently had stayed with Mary for 6 months) after she had moved to Las Vegas and started starring in her show she went back to the mansion to "congratulate" Hef on his engagement.

First, she visited Mary in her office and asked her if Hef was happy with Crystal. (I have got to hand it to Mary, for being very truthful yet diplomatic in telling Holly that she had been missed  but that Hef and Crystal were very happy with each other.)

Then, Hef met her while she was visiting with the animals. She had tears in her eyes and told him that she was glad that he was happy. They later went into the mansion where she gave Hef a hand drawn comic book in miniature to go with the exact replica of Hef's childhood home that she had commissioned for him but had been completed after she had left. Crystal came down to visit and Holly threatened her (half jokingly) that she had better take good care of Hef.

Okay, it might have been scripted but she did genuinely seem sad regardless of the things she was saying to appear to be happy for Hef and happy in her own life.

YMMV

I watched both GND and Holly's World. I think Holly's feelings about Hef were complicated. Has anyone ever had a relative they love and were also abused by? So I kind of get it, but yes she layed on being in love with Hef very thick. So I don't know why she was surprised that some people bought she had some sort of feelings for him. First she was offended people saw her as a gold digger. Then she couldn't believe anyone ever bought she wanted to be with Hef for anything other than $. I like Holly a whole lot, but she went from Hef's #1 cheerleader to the book. I can see why that is a little confusing. 

On 3/27/2022 at 9:55 AM, chediavolo said:

I think we have to be skeptical of all these people. It’s just so shady how no one came forward in all those years. Now they are speaking out when Hefner is dead. Why not when he was older at  least? Did he have something on them? Reminds  me of another recent scenario that I’m sure we are not allowed to mention which also is frustratingly insane. I believe Hefner was a repulsive misogynistic filthy pig but some of these people that knew what was going on and put a Disgusting job ahead of humanity need to check themselves. 

In Holly's defense, she did write her book while Hef was still alive. He responded and basically thought she was just sour grapes. 

20 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

I definitely have a memory of seeing a photo of Barbi Benton totally nude.  I think she was outside walking around the mansion grounds, or maybe inside--I don't remember exactly.  I don't know if she was ever a playmate, but she sure wasn't shy.

That reminds me of Kim K saying she was going to do Playboy but be covered. She was also full of it. lol I think Barbi was a Playboy model, even if she was never a Playmate. Think Carmen Electra or even the GND. 

4 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

Holly does talk about how the ratings fell when the three were gone and E thought they could be replaced with other random blondes. I'm sure that was Hefner's point of view. The women were the stars of the show, not him and I bet he hated that, but the show was called "The Girls Next Door" and not "The Creepy Old Man Next Door."

Holly has probably had to have A LOT of therapy to deal with having been with him all those years. I think a lot of the past girlfriends had a Stockholm situation going on. 

Doesn't Izabella have a law degree from Pepperdine? Why on earth would she waste time at the mansion? Go tackle the world of law! Bridget has a Masters and I didn't understand that either.

I think Hef initially thought he was the star, and that yes, the blondes were replaceable. Holly, Bridget, and Kendra were three very unique women. Holly was the glamorous one who supposedly wanted to be Mrs. Hefner. Bridget had this childlike enthusiasm about everything, loved pink, but was also really studious. Kendra was young, wild and funny.  

I think so too. That's why I don't want to judge them for bringing other young women into the situation. I don't know if they even realized how unhealthy it all was until after the fact. 

We all know about Kendra's childhood. I think they all had horrible ideas of what is and is not healthy. My impression is that none of those women had entirely normal childhoods, even Bridget who appeared to grow up very loved. There were Playboy magazines left around the house that weren't hidden. She saw them as a very small child (4 years IRC). I have no issue with grown folks looking at that kind of photography, but young kids? That's so messed up to me. Bridget thought it was appropriate to do a striptease in front of her stepdad. She got down to pasties and a thong. That was probably one of the weirdest moments on GND.  We shouldn't be ashamed of our bodies or sexuality, but there is a balance between purity culture and anything goes. That anything goes attitude is what leads to someone thinking being with the likes of Hugh Hefner is a good idea. 

I think Izabella just wanted to have some fun for awhile and thought the Playboy Mansion might be the place to do it. She had no Playmate or fame aspirations. Bridget on the other hand really glamorized Playboy. I wonder if she still does or not. Her biggest goals as a young woman were to get a master's degree and become Playmate.

[Gharlane]

1 hour ago, Atlanta said:

Holly does talk about how the ratings fell when the three were gone and E thought they could be replaced with other random blondes. I'm sure that was Hefner's point of view. The women were the stars of the show, not him and I bet he hated that, but the show was called "The Girls Next Door" and not "The Creepy Old Man Next Door."

Yeah, one thing I learned form this show is that Hef and Playboy Corp thought women were disposable. I am morbidly curious about the "Incest Twins" making an appearance on tonight's show. They were gross on GND and they still looked gross in the previews.

[Cinnabon]

7 hours ago, Atlanta said:

Jill Ann's book was written when there were way more girlfriends. I wonder if things changed when it down to three? I haven't read Izabella's book, but Holly's (IIRC) doesn't get into the nitty gritty (and ew factor) of what going out Wednesdays and Fridays meant. RIP Jill. I think her book is the only one that 'goes there.'

Holly does talk about how the ratings fell when the three were gone and E thought they could be replaced with other random blondes. I'm sure that was Hefner's point of view. The women were the stars of the show, not him and I bet he hated that, but the show was called "The Girls Next Door" and not "The Creepy Old Man Next Door."

Holly has probably had to have A LOT of therapy to deal with having been with him all those years. I think a lot of the past girlfriends had a Stockholm situation going on. 

Doesn't Izabella have a law degree from Pepperdine? Why on earth would she waste time at the mansion? Go tackle the world of law! Bridget has a Masters and I didn't understand that either.

She does have a law degree. Apparently Hef did let her work part time while living there, something he denied others. I know I’ve seen descriptions of the “Wednesday and Friday nights” routine in more than one book. Now I need to back down the rabbit hole! I know both Holly and Bridget were named as “recruiting” girls and then instructing them to bathe in the big tub. Gahhhhh! 

[Cinnabon]

6 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

I watched both GND and Holly's World. I think Holly's feelings about Hef were complicated. Has anyone ever had a relative they love and were also abused by? So I kind of get it, but yes she layed on being in love with Hef very thick. So I don't know why she was surprised that some people bought she had some sort of feelings for him. First she was offended people saw her as a gold digger. Then she couldn't believe anyone ever bought she wanted to be with Hef for anything other than $. I like Holly a whole lot, but she went from Hef's #1 cheerleader to the book. I can see why that is a little confusing. 

In Holly's defense, she did write her book while Hef was still alive. He responded and basically thought she was just sour grapes. 

That reminds me of Kim K saying she was going to do Playboy but be covered. She was also full of it. lol I think Barbi was a Playboy model, even if she was never a Playmate. Think Carmen Electra or even the GND. 

I think Hef initially thought he was the star, and that yes, the blondes were replaceable. Holly, Bridget, and Kendra were three very unique women. Holly was the glamorous one who supposedly wanted to be Mrs. Hefner. Bridget had this childlike enthusiasm about everything, loved pink, but was also really studious. Kendra was young, wild and funny.  

I think so too. That's why I don't want to judge them for bringing other young women into the situation. I don't know if they even realized how unhealthy it all was until after the fact. 

We all know about Kendra's childhood. I think they all had horrible ideas of what is and is not healthy. My impression is that none of those women had entirely normal childhoods, even Bridget who appeared to grow up very loved. There were Playboy magazines left around the house that weren't hidden. She saw them as a very small child (4 years IRC). I have no issue with grown folks looking at that kind of photography, but young kids? That's so messed up to me. Bridget thought it was appropriate to do a striptease in front of her stepdad. She got down to pasties and a thong. That was probably one of the weirdest moments on GND.  We shouldn't be ashamed of our bodies or sexuality, but there is a balance between purity culture and anything goes. That anything goes attitude is what leads to someone thinking being with the likes of Hugh Hefner is a good idea. 

I think Izabella just wanted to have some fun for awhile and thought the Playboy Mansion might be the place to do it. She had no Playmate or fame aspirations. Bridget on the other hand really glamorized Playboy. I wonder if she still does or not. Her biggest goals as a young woman were to get a master's degree and become Playmate.

Let’s be clear - if you heard about young women being given quaaludes and alcohol to make them vulnerable, and then recruited (by other women, making it seem “safer”) to take part in an orgy in a frat house, you’d likely see the manipulation and abuse for what it is. In some jurisdictions, people who are drunk and high are considered unable to consent. What Holly and Bridget did was borderline criminal, IMO, and at the very least predatory and sickening.

 

ETA - Hearing about how Bridget had access to pornography as a young child is disturbing. That is abuse, IMO. And for her part as an adult, she never even owned up to being married before she started living with Hef. Hmmm, I wonder why she hid/lied about that?

Edited March 28, 2022 by Cinnabon

[RealHousewife]

29 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Let’s be clear - if you heard about young women being given quaaludes and alcohol to make them vulnerable, and then recruited (by other women, making it seem “safer”) to take part in an orgy in a frat house, you’d likely see the manipulation and abuse for what it is. In some jurisdictions, people who are drunk and high are considered unable to consent. What Holly and Bridget did was borderline criminal, IMO, and at the very least predatory and sickening.

 

ETA - Hearing about how Bridget had access to pornography as a young child is disturbing. That is abuse, IMO. And for her part as an adult, she never even owned up to being married before she started living with Hef. Hmmm, I wonder why she hid/lied about that?

I'm sorry, my memory isn't always great, even though I did watch GND and read a few books about the mansion. You might be referencing details I'm not sure I've heard or possibly forgotten. I know Holly said on her first night out with Hef, he offered her quaaludes. She says years later she wished she could go back in time and shake and scream at herself for sticking around after that. I'm not sure if they literally lured women who were drunk or drugged into orgies.

I think for all three women, they really thought being Hef's girlfriend was something to aspire to, and they weren't grossed out by the sex it entailed. Kendra's own mother thought it was a great idea.  I'm not saying encouraging anyone to become a girlfriend was wise by any means. I don't think any of them realized just how gross the situation was. Holly said she had heard about Hef raping, but she didn't think he was capable of such a thing at that time.

I agree that is abuse. That's why I cut Bridget slack despite her being at an age where most know better. If you grow up with things that are not normal or healthy considered okay, your perception is going to be skewed.

I'm not sure if Bridget ever discussed her marriage before living with Hef. 

I finally saw this last episode, and it was horrific. I guess they saved the worst of Hef for last. As I've said before, a lot of what was said in the beginning or in books about him had me thinking "yeah no shit." I never thought he was classy or he cared about liberating woman. But I did think the dude had a heart somewhere. But he was a sick, sick twisted man. 

[Cinnabon]

12 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I'm sorry, my memory isn't always great, even though I did watch GND and read a few books about the mansion. You might be referencing details I'm not sure I've heard or possibly forgotten. I know Holly said on her first night out with Hef, he offered her quaaludes. She says years later she wished she could go back in time and shake and scream at herself for sticking around after that. I'm not sure if they literally lured women who were drunk or drugged into orgies.

I think for all three women, they really thought being Hef's girlfriend was something to aspire to, and they weren't grossed out by the sex it entailed. Kendra's own mother thought it was a great idea.  I'm not saying encouraging anyone to become a girlfriend was wise by any means. I don't think any of them realized just how gross the situation was. Holly said she had heard about Hef raping, but she didn't think he was capable of such a thing at that time.

I agree that is abuse. That's why I cut Bridget slack despite her being at an age where most know better. If you grow up with things that are not normal or healthy considered okay, your perception is going to be skewed.

I'm not sure if Bridget ever discussed her marriage before living with Hef. 

I finally saw this last episode, and it was horrific. I guess they saved the worst of Hef for last. As I've said before, a lot of what was said in the beginning or in books about him had me thinking "yeah no shit." I never thought he was classy or he cared about liberating woman. But I did think the dude had a heart somewhere. But he was a sick, sick twisted man. 

Yes, he really fooled a lot of people.

[Gharlane]

Quote

"Behind 'The Girls Next Door'".  Former girlfriends of Hugh Hefner, Karissa and Kristina Shannon, discuss their experience with Hefner and the hit television series "The Girls Next Door"; Karissa and Kristina reveal their story of the darker world led by Hefner.

Wow, I kinda feel bad for the Incest Twins now. Mary O'Connell was not the sweet little old lady the show presented her as being. For some reason, the Hollywood therapist rubbed me the wrong way.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Gharlane

[RealHousewife]

Those poor Shannon twins. They were always just seen as a joke, "the incest twins." The other girlfriends mocked them, fans hated them. They weren't my favorite as far as TV personalities, but looking back, it's just all so sad. Knowing their upbringing and being so young, winding up where they did makes sense. I'm only slightly older than the twins, so I didn't realize just how young they were when they became girlfriends. I hope they get the help they need and are able to heal. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by RealHousewife

[princelina]

On 3/25/2022 at 11:40 AM, Gharlane said:

I remember him being something of a hoarder, too. Didn't he have a huge room filled with scrapbooks? 🤔

And he was still working on them during GND!  That was his life - slouch around the mansion in his pjs, chat with Mary, work on scrapbooks of his glory days, eat fried chicken and hard boiled eggs, old movie nights, "date nights" to show off, rinse and repeat.

15 hours ago, TrixieTrue said:

Holly addressed tis somewhat in her YouTube commentary. She basically said that all the shows were produced by E and that there was an agreement that they would all do each other's shows. So Holly went back to the Mansion for Girls Next Door, Hef and Crystal/twins appeared on Holly's World, and I'm not sure about Kendra's show. Holly, Bridget, and Kendra filmed a baby shower at Mary's house for Girls Next Door. 

I remember from the book she went to do Kendra's, Kendra was a total bitch the whole time when the cameras were off, and didn't return the favor for Holly.

11 hours ago, Atlanta said:

Jill Ann's book was written when there were way more girlfriends. I wonder if things changed when it down to three? I haven't read Izabella's book, but Holly's (IIRC) doesn't get into the nitty gritty (and ew factor) of what going out Wednesdays and Fridays meant. RIP Jill. I think her book is the only one that 'goes there.'

Izabella's was the one I read - same description of sex nights as Jill's.  She was the one who put in her book how offensive it was that the mansion didn't serve nice enough wine 🙄😄

Edited March 29, 2022 by princelina

[princelina]

1 hour ago, RealHousewife said:

Those poor Shannon twins. They were always just seen as a joke, "the incest twins." The other girlfriends mocked them, fans hated them. They weren't my favorite as far as TV personalities, but looking back, it's just all so sad. Knowing their upbringing and being so young, winding up where they did makes sense. I'm only slightly older than the twins, so I didn't realize just how young they were when they became girlfriends. I hope they get the help they need and are able to heal. 

Yeah they did have a sad story.  They were seen as a joke I think, primarily because at that point there was no one on the planet who believed they were Hef's "girlfriends" in the way he continued to portray himself.  And they were young and brash and pretty skanky from what I recall, and even though Hef thought any old blonde bimbos could carry "his" show, he was very wrong, and following the 3 that everyone liked was not helpful for them either.  I found it interesting that they described their time at the mansion as "like a cult" which kinds of explains what was wrong with all of these people who knew bad things and kept going along.  It seems like they all acted publicly like they were so cool and fun and liberated, living this awesome lifestyle, and everyone was afraid they were the only one thinking something was wrong, so they couldn't admit it.

I wish they had been asked what they have been doing for the past decade - if they left in 2010 and ran a salon for 3 years that takes them to 2013.  

[pasdetrois]

Very little was said about the twins' father. I seem to recall that he was a manager of sorts - and at the time I got strong vibes about real lack of boundaries. I think he heavily promoted their sexuality. Lots of naked "incest" photos.

Edited March 29, 2022 by pasdetrois

[sadie]

I’ve thought this series was interesting up to this point, but I just couldn’t get thru this ep. Something about these two just turned me off, I understand they suffered the same fate as these other women but they seemed the most self serving, not doubting them but……I don’t know. Maybe it was this weird interview format, I don’t know, I just can’t quite put them in the same category as the other victims we’ve seen so far.

please don’t blast me. 

[Gharlane]

38 minutes ago, sadie said:

I’ve thought this series was interesting up to this point, but I just couldn’t get thru this ep. Something about these two just turned me off, I understand they suffered the same fate as these other women but they seemed the most self serving, not doubting them but……I don’t know. Maybe it was this weird interview format, I don’t know, I just can’t quite put them in the same category as the other victims we’ve seen so far.

please don’t blast me. 

You're not the only one. 

[RealHousewife]

13 hours ago, princelina said:

Izabella's was the one I read - same description of sex nights as Jill's.  She was the one who put in her book how offensive it was that the mansion didn't serve nice enough wine 🙄😄

lol! Now this I do remember hahahaha

1 hour ago, pasdetrois said:

Very little was said about the twins' father. I seem to recall that he was a manager of sorts - and at the time I got strong vibes about real lack of boundaries. I think he heavily promoted their sexuality. Lots of naked "incest" photos.

I remember something like that. It was so bizarre to me, but then I thought the same about lots of Playmate parents. It's one thing to say honey, I don't think posing for Playboy is a great idea for your future, but you're an adult. It's another for the parents (especially the dads) to look at the photos. I still remember seeing that on GND. Ew ew ew. I'd die. It's one thing to say I don't get why you'd want to be Hef's girlfriend, but it's your life. It's another to think it's wonderful like Kendra's mother did and want her to stay with him. 

33 minutes ago, sadie said:

I’ve thought this series was interesting up to this point, but I just couldn’t get thru this ep. Something about these two just turned me off, I understand they suffered the same fate as these other women but they seemed the most self serving, not doubting them but……I don’t know. Maybe it was this weird interview format, I don’t know, I just can’t quite put them in the same category as the other victims we’ve seen so far.

please don’t blast me. 

No blasting at all from me! I'm all for respectfully sharing our different opinions here. My own opinions aren't always popular, and I know it takes the fun out of posting when you think a bunch of people might blast you. 

I actually really felt for the twins because they didn't have a normal childhood. They didn't come from much, and they were teenagers. I don't think they were girls who grew up wanting to became rich and famous like some other girlfriends. I think they had no idea what to do with their lives. They were basically thrust into GND. It's possible they didn't think they'd actually have to sleep with Hef. They were not gold diggers TRYING to have a baby with an elderly man. They may have been totally fine to pose for Playboy and do reality television, but I think everything else shocked them. They've said they've dealt with PTSD and weight gain since, that they haven't really dated. As someone who deals with anxiety and has lost a lot of life over it, I feel awful for them.

Bridget was at least around a decade older when she moved into the mansion, and an educated woman with loving parents. She's since been with Nick Carpenter, and while out of the spotlight for the most part, she seems to be living a happy, healthy life. 

Holly was a bit older than the twins when she moved in, and she was someone eager to get that lifestyle. Even if Hef was awful to her, she did ultimately get what she wanted from Playboy-money and fame. There were multiple seasons of GND, Holly's World, Peep Show, books out, now does YouTube videos about GND. She's had different relationships and has adorable kids. 

Most of us know the chaos of Kendra's life, but she also got lots of reality show jobs. I can't even remember all the shows she was on. She's had relationships since Hef, and has two beautiful children. I think she does real estate now. 

Those poor twins posed for Playboy, got with Hef, and they didn't get a whole lot out of either other than trauma. I hope they get lots of therapy and are able to live happy, fulfilling lives. 

[princelina]

1 hour ago, sadie said:

I’ve thought this series was interesting up to this point, but I just couldn’t get thru this ep. Something about these two just turned me off, I understand they suffered the same fate as these other women but they seemed the most self serving, not doubting them but……I don’t know. Maybe it was this weird interview format, I don’t know, I just can’t quite put them in the same category as the other victims we’ve seen so far.

please don’t blast me. 

No - they're very sketchy and always have been.  That's why I want to know what they've been up to for the past decade.  Looking back - they were pretty young girls, with the damaged past that Hef loved to prey upon.  Maybe they seem sketchy to me because they are just odd ducks, or their past has them used to acting that way.  I felt sorry for them but still didn't really like them.  And I felt like if I wanted to I could pick apart their stories more easily than the other women.

[Athena5217]

I didn’t watch GND when the Shannon twins were on, but I assumed their relationship with Hefner was fake and all for the show. In part this is because I think a lot of reality TV is fake, but also because the idea of having sex with sisters at the same time is so gross I didn’t think he would actually do that. I was disgusted by the whole idea, and I transferred my feelings to the twins, assuming they agree to pretend to this fake relationship for the show.

Watch them last night, I was able to separate my feelings about them and the situation. I felt terrible for them because I understood how financially desperate they were and how they were “groomed” and preyed upon. I probably wouldn’t like these women in real life, but that doesn’t mean I can’t feel compassion for them.

Like most predators, Hefner had an instinct for finding vulnerable women and exploiting them. Looking back, I can’t believe that he got away with all of this during GND. The Shannon twins were being served alcohol illegally all while many people were witnessing it during filming. That was the least of the bad things done to them, but it was probably the most well documented and could have been used for a court case. 

[Me from ME]

Since this series has been airing  I have gone back to watch GND as well as Holly's World. I realized that the last season of GND had really lost whatever interest it might have had for me and most of that was because of the twins.  I agree with all those of us who said they were crass, sketchy and possibly even skanky.  I found them to be stupid and boring. The last episode has borne that out. They are still stupid (lots of inconsistencies) and boring (same old same old).  During the last season of GND they were just LOUD. Kendra was stupid and loud as well but her spirit compensated a bit. (I say stupid because when the trio went to Alaska and Holly bought a Puffin for Hef Kendra picked some other stuffed animal in the gift shop and tried to make that into her pet name for Hef. I think that her blatant selfishness was stupid because it wasn't self-sustaining. I mean, you can only get away with constantly being late or disorganized so many times.

The last year of GND is interesting because the third girl was Crystal. I have been watching to see whether she and Hef had a different connection than Hef and Holly since he went on to marry one and strung the other along for so many years.

[Atlanta]

About to watch the new ep, but in the overall picture, where did his hatred of women come from? Was it because his first wife cheated on him? It also seems that he had to propose a few times to get her to say yes. Is that where it stemmed?

Edited to add:

OMG. My heart breaks for those twins. And Kendra had them go upstairs. I reinforces when Miki (I think that's her name) would always tell women to never go to the mansion. Do your photoshoot and publicity, but that's it.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Atlanta

[SunnyBeBe]

People who have Narcissistic Personality don’t need a particular reason they treat others cruelly or  reason to manipulate everything to their advantage.  It sounds like Hef had it in a big way?  He had a lot of people fooled.  He had enough charm and looks to make it work, even after he became feeble.  I suppose I was fooled too.  I watched every season of GND.  I really thought that there was a huge con going on, but thought the lie was that Hef could get it up.  I seriously thought the whole thing was a farce, to keep up his playboy image, but in reality he retired to his bed with a warm glass of milk and a movie.  I could NOT fathom the concept of those young women actually having sex with him or him being capable of doing it.  Boggles the mind.😳

I did see the twins speak last night and I do find what happened to them very disturbing.  I suspect they don’t realize that the way they phrase some things gives people pause. I guess they are new to revealing.  I do believe them and get why they waited.  There are many reason people wait for years to disclose abuse.  It’s a complex issue and there often aren’t clear answers.  Survivors of abuse often carry their own feelings of guilt. There is shame and a strong desire to forget.  Plus, there’s fear of being ruined in the public eye, when you speak out.  (Look how successful Evan Rachel Wood is, yet she has been maligned by her abuser…even sued.). Some survivors still harbor a sense of affection or melancholy regarding the abuser.  Abusers can at times be kind and generous, leaving those they abuse confused and desperate to believe they were valued in some way.   

Edited March 29, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[Keywestclubkid]

I don’t really remember the Shannon twins other then how obnoxious I thought they came across as (I remember thinking they were trying soo hard to be like Kendra)… 

super sad Kendra did the bait and switch with them … let’s go smoke pot then says she doesn’t smoke and slips out the room.. that’s so premeditated shit .. funny how in the interview it seems they still have a good image of Kendra and not so of Holly and Bridget ( calling her the sidekick) 

[Atlanta]

23 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

People who have Narcissistic Personality don’t need a particular reason they treat others cruelly or  reason to manipulate everything to their advantage.  It sounds like Hef had it in a big way?  He had a lot of people fooled.  He had enough charm and looks to make it work, even after he became feeble.  I suppose I was fooled too.  I watched every season of GND.  I really thought that there was a huge con going on, but thought the lie was that Hef could get it up.  I seriously thought the whole thing was a farce, to keep up his playboy image, but in reality he retired to his bed with a warm glass of milk and a movie.  I could NOT fathom the concept of those young women actually having sex with him or him being capable of doing it.  Boggles the mind. 😳

Agree. I never ever would have thought he could still perform sexually and the multiple girlfriends were for show, and that's the reason they could present the 'big happy family' facade. The twins thought the same thing and they also had no idea what going to his room meant. I would think, "Okay, we'll go up, watch movies, have drinks, blah blah blah." I wonder if Kimberley Conrad will ever say anything? I imagine not because of her sons. 

I think groom is the appropriate word. I think he did the same with Kendra, but she didn't go into it with the naïveté the twins did. They just turned 19, and had bad family backgrounds, but in many ways, very innocent and immature (like any 18/19 year old). I hope they do find peace and this first step of talking helps them. 

[Cinnabon]

41 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

People who have Narcissistic Personality don’t need a particular reason they treat others cruelly or  reason to manipulate everything to their advantage.  It sounds like Hef had it in a big way?  He had a lot of people fooled.  He had enough charm and looks to make it work, even after he became feeble.  I suppose I was fooled too.  I watched every season of GND.  I really thought that there was a huge con going on, but thought the lie was that Hef could get it up.  I seriously thought the whole thing was a farce, to keep up his playboy image, but in reality he retired to his bed with a warm glass of milk and a movie.  I could NOT fathom the concept of those young women actually having sex with him or him being capable of doing it.  Boggles the mind.😳

I did see the twins speak last night and I do find what happened to them very disturbing.  I suspect they don’t realize that the way they phrase some things gives people pause. I guess they are new to revealing.  I do believe them and get why they waited.  There are many reason people wait for years to disclose abuse.  It’s a complex issue and there often aren’t clear answers.  Survivors of abuse often carry their own feelings of guilt. There is shame and a strong desire to forget.  Plus, there’s fear of being ruined in the public eye, when you speak out.  (Look how successful Evan Rachel Wood is, yet she has been maligned by her abuser…even sued.). Some survivors still harbor a sense of affection or melancholy regarding the abuser.  Abusers can at times be kind and generous, leaving those they abuse confused and desperate to believe they were valued in some way.   

Hef took a lot of viagra! 

[Keywestclubkid]

Lol now I’m rewatching the episode they compete for the 55th anniversary playmate … production adding in the crickets to them all just sitting around with nothing to say to each other once the twins walked in and sat down .. they were super young I can’t fault holly for not “bonding” with them .. 

[RealHousewife]

5 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Lol now I’m rewatching the episode they compete for the 55th anniversary playmate … production adding in the crickets to them all just sitting around with nothing to say to each other once the twins walked in and sat down .. they were super young I can’t fault holly for not “bonding” with them .. 

 

2 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

I don’t really remember the Shannon twins other then how obnoxious I thought they came across as (I remember thinking they were trying soo hard to be like Kendra)… 

super sad Kendra did the bait and switch with them … let’s go smoke pot then says she doesn’t smoke and slips out the room.. that’s so premeditated shit .. funny how in the interview it seems they still have a good image of Kendra and not so of Holly and Bridget ( calling her the sidekick) 

Maybe they thought Kendra was just as messed up as them? And Kendra was still pretty young at that time. She may not have realized what a situation she left the twins in.

I could be wrong, but my impression is that Kendra is the type who's more outgoing and initially much friendlier, but not necessarily the better friend. I remember Sara Underwood also said Kendra took her in the most of everyone. But I think Bridget and Holly seem like they're more loyal. Bridget's feelings were really hurt that Kendra didn't consider her a friend even though Bridget was kind to her. 

I relate more to Bridget and Holly. I can be a little shy and reserved upon meeting people, but once I develop a relationship with someone, I really care and become attached and hope to keep a friendship for life. 

[Atlanta]

I related to Bridget the most and Kendra the least. I liked that she had her MA and I had just gotten mine a few years before. I also liked her cat over those yappy dogs. LOL She also seemed the nicest.

[MCMLXXVII]

Seriously? 👀 The Shannon twins moved onto hardcore movies, their 2019 Brazzers debut was a pretty big deal.  
SFW news story

ETA: Not discounting their suffering or experience at all, it’s just a little wild not to mention when everyone has Google.

Edited March 29, 2022 by MCMLXXVII

[RealHousewife]

11 minutes ago, MCMLXXVII said:

Seriously? 👀 The Shannon twins moved onto hardcore movies, their 2019 Brazzers debut was a pretty big deal.  
SFW news story

Omg! I feel like I must have heard this but forgot. What the hell is tasteful porn? 

[MCMLXXVII]

14 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

 The plot of the first movie is that the sisters have been estranged, so one of them surprise visits the married sister’s home and pretends to be her to trick the husband into sleeping with the wrong sister. Their scenes with the same guy  take place in different rooms though, I guess that’s the tasteful part since them participating in the same scene would be incest.

Edited March 29, 2022 by MCMLXXVII
The quote box got messed up.

[CeeBeeGee]

8 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

I remember something like that. It was so bizarre to me, but then I thought the same about lots of Playmate parents. It's one thing to say honey, I don't think posing for Playboy is a great idea for your future, but you're an adult. It's another for the parents (especially the dads) to look at the photos. I still remember seeing that on GND. Ew ew ew. I'd die. It's one thing to say I don't get why you'd want to be Hef's girlfriend, but it's your life. It's another to think it's wonderful like Kendra's mother did and want her to stay with him. 

The part in Snow Place Like Home where Kendra's grandmother and Hef are talking about how nice the snow is beyond weird--they're generational cohorts, for God's sake. In fact I'd guess that she was actually younger than Hef.

Rebekka Armstrong (I haven't seen this episode yet but she was featured on earlier episodes--I remember there was a special out about her a long time ago (maybe Centerfold Babylon?), a documentary that talked about her modeling for Playboy and her AIDS diagnosis. I remember she talked about how an uncle took the pictures that they sent in to Playboy and I thought that was weird. Your  uncle is taking sexy pictures of you? Some of these people come from very strange backgrounds.

[Gharlane]

3 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Omg! I feel like I must have heard this but forgot. What the hell is tasteful porn? 

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/7d2bc7b0-3862-49bb-b7aa-39c071886d79

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Gharlane
Tried but unable to embed the clip

[princelina]

3 hours ago, MCMLXXVII said:

Seriously? 👀 The Shannon twins moved onto hardcore movies, their 2019 Brazzers debut was a pretty big deal.  
SFW news story

ETA: Not discounting their suffering or experience at all, it’s just a little wild not to mention when everyone has Google.

Ok that explains where they've been for the last years, and also why no one mentioned it last night.  Also that weight gain was really recent!

[MCMLXXVII]

1 hour ago, princelina said:

Ok that explains where they've been for the last years, and also why no one mentioned it last night.  Also that weight gain was really recent!

Yes, some of it. They appear to have used Playboy-era photos in that article, they were “big but proportional” in the 2019 video.

I was a little surprised at their size on this show.

[CopyHawk]

I recently wrote an article about the Secrets of Playboy and the disturbing revelations in it. The show and its allegations really bother me! https://medium.com/@copyhawk/the-disturbing-secrets-of-playboy-484dbe758445

[Keywestclubkid]

Well this makes more sense since the format changed for the last episodes  .. they were never part of the "original" order of episodes ... they added two episodes after the fact

https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/secrets-of-playboy-hugh-hefner-1235197604/