S01.E02: Natural Order

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Dr. Sam Griffith fights to keep her new leadership role as chief of surgery when her father and former boss, Dr. Rob "Griff" Griffith, takes his case for reinstatement directly to the hospital board. Also, resident Dr. Caleb Tucker, Sam's ex, forms an unexpected connection to a patient battling a mystery condition.

Airing Wednesday, January 12, 2022.

[SnarkShark]

Are we honestly supposed to even tolerate Rob?

He's willing to basically end Sam's career past just being an attending surgeon.  Nobody else is going to hire her as a Department Head who was pushed out, at least at what I'm assuming in context is supposedly an above average hospital. 

Of course the whole plot is absurd.  Demoting her without cause, a real board would worry about a lawsuit.  But this is a hospital where Mommy is Chief of Surgery and cheesy inspiring speeches (what we heard was dreadful) work on beaurocrats.  

[historylover820]

I don't know how much I like this show.

OK, I'm pretty much in this only for Jason Isaacs, but halfway through the episode, I thought "I don't want either of these idiots being my doctor!" Unprofessional behavior all around! Bickering in front of patients? Sam was the best that could be found? Really???? She's too young, too inexperienced to be Department Head. Except for Lex, she wants to coddle her residents, and she thinks that makes them better doctors? (And I get the disappointment with Lex, and it was unethical of her father to have an affair with one of his residents. But put on your big girl pants and do your job, Sam!)

At first, I thought Rob was doing mind games on Sam, making her think that he was going over her head and of course he will be getting his Department Head position back after the proctorship. See if she can rise to the occasion. But, nope. 

I thought the team getting the baby case was contrived. In a hospital that size, there really shouldn't be a surgical team handling pediatrics. Both areas are specialized. But, we need a House case where they can discuss the different diagnoses and treatments.

Sam's new boyfriend just exists to tell her how beautiful she is, doesn't he?

Oh, I also forgot--

I was so distracted at the scene where "Sam" was "playing" the piano. I didn't notice it to this extent in the pilot. But, boy it was distracting that this was not Sophia Bush at all when you see "Sam's" hands on the piano. Why make it that piano playing is a hobby of the character and then not cast an actor who can play? If Sophia Bush was the best choice for Sam Griffith, then why keep the piano playing a hobby? You can easily have Sam do something else as a hobby. As it was, boy, that was distracting.

Good stuff? Lex and Caleb are growing on me. I liked Caleb at the end with the alcoholic patient, and I pretty much liked him this episode. And I appreciate Jason Isaacs' dry humor, which keeps me coming back. Also, that's a sweet Mustang he was driving at the beginning!

I thought it was a frustrating hour. And I guess I really don't care much for Sophia Bush. But still love Jason Isaacs, so will probably be here for the next episode.

Edited January 13, 2022 by historylover820
Thought of something

[SnarkShark]

7 minutes ago, historylover820 said:

She's too young, too inexperienced to be Department Head

Probably.  Although I've been assuming she's actually Sophia's actual age rather than younger like actresses usually want roles to be.  Still probably too young, but not impossibly so.

They don't say at any point how long she's been an attending.   Introduced originally as a Fellow, that typically implies someone younger though, doesn't it.  

Also, i just looked it up and the actual age gap between Isaacs and Bush is like 19 years. Biologically perfectly feasible, but an unlikely age for his character to have a kid at.   So with that and the Fellow mention, it appears like they DO want her to be much younger, but... also an appropriate Department Head?  Come on.   Wendy Crewson is actually seven years older than Isaacs,  actually at a normal age to have a 39 year old daughter, but it just feels like we're supposed to assume everyone falls in line with normal TV age expectations. 

[historylover820]

OK, so 39 years might be a bit on the young side for a department head, but I'll give it that. The problem is that Sam doesn't act like she's anywhere close to 39. (I had to look up Sophia Bush's age). I'm 4 years older than Sophia Bush, and I was not placing her in my age group. Sophia Bush might be 39, but Sam acts closer to 29 or 30. Someone who has just completed their residency and is now an attending before her father was shot and fell into a six-month coma (which.... I still don't understand that. He was shot in the chest, right? But he's in a coma from it for six months? With no brain damage?)

So, yeah, I think we're supposed to assume everyone falls in line with normal TV age expectations. Sophia Bush can't play a competent, driven, 39 year old surgeon. She has to play an inexperienced, insecure 30 year old who really can't compete with her more experienced father in the job. Jason Isaacs can't play a man driven to prove that he hasn't missed a step despite some drawbacks and obstacles. He has to be House-lite and torment his daughter and supervisor.

Oh, yeah--one last thought:

I was serious when I thought Rob was playing mind games on Sam. And I was disappointed that this doesn't seem to be the case.

I would be shocked if they go this route, but I think what would make sense is Sam is proctoring him, but he's teaching her how to be the boss, how to be the Department Head. He's not really in competition with her, but showing her that you can't always be nice and get respect. Sometimes you have to fight for it. And the coddling the residents isn't helping them become better doctors either. It means one resident about has a panic attack at the idea that Rob might be their boss again.

Obviously, he is in competition with her. And what I think makes sense isn't what will happen. 

[statsgirl]

This show is incredibly frustrating. From the opening scene scene with Sam and her father acting like two children trying to outdo each other in getting into the hospital first (the person I was watching with asked if David Shore wrote this), to the constant personal battling through the episode, this is an hour of bad family relationships.

Sam needs to stop proctoring her father pronto. He not only disobeys her orders, he interrupts her in front of the patients and undermines her constantly. But Sam isn't blameless in this, she should be watching his skills instead of giving him scut work and telling him what tests to run.

If the hospital board is going to reinstate him as chief as soon as he's passed the proctoring, Sam needs to quit then and go to another hospital to run it her way.  Normal growth means leaving the nest and setting out on your own, not living your life in the shadow of your father and mother.

In fact, if Sam is not allowed to call a board meeting like a regular department head, she should quit right now especially since it's already been determined that she's out as chief in 87 days. To quote the author, D.L. Stevenson, if you lie down and act like a doormat, you can't blame people for walking on you. So good for her for fighting to keep running the department but it would be better if she moved on to another hospital, better for her emotionally as well as her medical career.

Ross telling her that she was right about gene therapy and he was wrong and then immediately informing her that he was taking over in 87 days no matter what she does is peak manipulation of the grossest kind. The man is toxic to Sam and to the residents. Jason Isaccs played an evil starship captain on ST:Discovery three seasons ago but even that character is miles better than Ross Griffith.

A sample size of 2 when they are full siblings is not enough. They're going to share at least 1/4 of their genes.

1 hour ago, historylover820 said:

I thought the team getting the baby case was contrived. In a hospital that size, there really shouldn't be a surgical team handling pediatrics. Both areas are specialized.

Did you mean that there should be a pediatric surgical team?  Because there really should, children are not just smaller adults.

41 minutes ago, SnarkShark said:

They don't say at any point how long she's been an attending.   Introduced originally as a Fellow, that typically implies someone younger though, doesn't it.  

A fellow is someone who has finished residency and then takes on another learning position instead of becoming an attending right away. She has the surgical skills but not the administrative ones yet. Although come to think of it, her administration is better than her father's.

It's strange that the department was composed of one chief, one fellow and four residents. There should be other surgical attendings all over the hospital.

[SnarkShark]

23 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

A fellow is someone who has finished residency and then takes on another learning position instead of becoming an attending right away. She has the surgical skills but not the administrative ones yet.

In other words... a Sophia Bush-like 39 year old would have to have done a fairly long Fellowship, right? 

[statsgirl]

A surgical residency is 4-5 years. Most sugical fellowships are 1 or 2 years; a cardiothoracic fellowship, which presumably Sam's was since she's operating on hearts, is 2-3 years. So 2-4 years of undergrad, 4-5 years of residency and 2-3 years of fellowship. Minimum 8 years after high school, maximum 12 making her 26 - 30 years old. It's always possible that Sam took time away during that time, for example working as a general surgeon or putting in a few years at Doctors Without Borders, before deciding to do a cardiothoracic fellowship.

https://residency.wustl.edu/choosing-a-specialty/specialty-descriptions/general-surgery/

[HurricaneVal]

Did he just make a peanut butter and Sriracha sandwich?

[SnarkShark]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

A surgical residency is 4-5 years. Most sugical fellowships are 1 or 2 years; a cardiothoracic fellowship, which presumably Sam's was since she's operating on hearts, is 2-3 years. So 2-4 years of undergrad, 4-5 years of residency and 2-3 years of fellowship. Minimum 8 years after high school, maximum 12 making her 26 - 30 years old. It's always possible that Sam took time away during that time, for example working as a general surgeon or putting in a few years at Doctors Without Borders, before deciding to do a cardiothoracic fellowship.

https://residency.wustl.edu/choosing-a-specialty/specialty-descriptions/general-surgery/

You skipped med school in that accounting.   And wait.  Internship too. 

[Avabelle]

I think I recall reading an excerpt from the pilot script and she was described as Sam, aged 35. 
 

Greys being so casual about who’s the head of each surgical area has made me immune to what does or doesn’t make sense at this point.

Edited January 13, 2022 by Avabelle

[Lady Calypso]

Yeah, I don't know why the age of 35 is popping into my head for Sam, but that's how I feel her age is.

Once again, a lot of questionable choices and it's not a well written show by any means, but I'm still entertained. Though, if Griff keeps being inappropriate in front of patients by undermining his boss in front of them, it's gonna get annoying real fast (probably already has). Sam can't reprimand him in front of the patients, so I can't blame her for pushing him out of surgeries and giving him scut work. He's shown that he can't be in diagnoses with patients because he simply runs all over her, but she has to find a better way to get him to listen to her. Which I guess is the point of this season, for him to teach her to stand up for herself and for her to teach him to listen to people better and change his methods. 

Griff's an ass for going over Sam's head and basically taking her job, so good on her for going to the board to get them to not do that. I suspect Griff WILL get his job back, but will have learned a lot from Sam in the process.

Sam's new boyfriend DOES need to do a little more before he becomes just Sam's love interest. 

Sam's ex got a little more to do (Caleb, is that his name?). And we learn that he's a secret alcoholic! Ok then! There always has to be that one character with an addiction issue for the inevitable relapse in a future season. 

Lex getting angry at Sam for the team finding out about Lex sleeping with Griff was ridiculous. Maybe don't sleep with your boss, and your best friend's father whom she hates and then it wouldn't NEED to be a secret that comes out. Also, they really made the team not care that much about the reveal so it didn't matter.

I do really like the opening title card, though. 

[kwnyc]

Griff is so damned unlikeable he's pushing me away from the show. If we're going on a season-long redemption arc, he better start cleaning up his act more and faster, or I'll give his house elf clothing!

[Avabelle]

With the ratings as they are I’d be shocked if the entire season makes it air.

[statsgirl]

11 hours ago, SnarkShark said:

You skipped med school in that accounting.   And wait.  Internship too. 

🤦‍♀️

Add in 4 years of medical school would make her 30 - 34. So having her be 35 fits.

An intern is another way of saying first year resident, presumably left over from when doctors did a year of hospital work before starting a practice .

[HurricaneVal]

I have to say, I did like it when she booted that doctor out of her surgery once the crisis was over.

Jason Isaacs is obviously having a fantastic time playing this character.  He is at turns whimsically cruel, vibrantly brilliant, staggeringly arrogant, and yet also a dedicated healer.  A true narcissistic SOB would have just walked on after seeing the child's shoe.  It also felt to me like his superb diagnostic mind coming to the realization and hurrying to the patient was truly a doctor rushing to heal, and not a jerk who wanted to be first and best with the news.  We also saw that when he was anxiously observing the surgery after not being allowed in, with his intense and unheard urgent advice.  He wanted both his daughter to succeed, and the child to live.  So there is something else to the character other than "unredeeming asshole."  Yet...he can't help himself.  How much of that is as-written, and how much of that is actor-ly persuasion of the character we don't really know.  We'll see when there is more plot driven episodes than character driven ones.

Is he continuing to pursue his daughter's best friend because he really does have feelings for her, or because he hates to lose?  That's also an interesting tension. 

And COB-scion love interest/new boyfriend?  That actor has chemistry oozing out of him.  The cringing restaurant scene was amazing.

And the piano playing was even worse this episode.  Seriously, get Sophia Bush some lessons so she can at least sit less awkwardly at the piano and maybe look a whisper more natural.  Those scenes of her "playing" in her office were so clunky!

[rwlevin]

16 hours ago, statsgirl said:

A surgical residency is 4-5 years. Most sugical fellowships are 1 or 2 years; a cardiothoracic fellowship, which presumably Sam's was since she's operating on hearts, is 2-3 years. So 2-4 years of undergrad, 4-5 years of residency and 2-3 years of fellowship. Minimum 8 years after high school, maximum 12 making her 26 - 30 years old.

The only surgical residency that's 4 years is obgyn. Depending on the tract, some surgical residencies can be 7 years. Sometimes, if people do into a very specific specialty, they won't finish their surgical residency and start fellowship early. And you're assuming that everyone goes into med school right after college. Some people earn masters degrees before they start. Some do MD/PhD programs and graduate in 10 years. Some don't decide they want to go to medical school until after they graduate college, like me.  I started med school at 26. I finished residency at 34.

She was an attending at most 6 months by the time her dad woke up. Of course, it still doesn't make sense because if she finished fellowship, she'd have new residents and at least 1 cardiothoracic fellow, since residents and fellows all graduate at the same time. She never would have been made chief. She probably wasn't even board certified yet and she only just finished her training. No way any of the other attending surgeons would take her seriously and it would open the hospital up to so many lawsuits just based on the nepotism alone, not to mention liability. She doesn't know enough yet. 

 

Adult cardiothoracic surgeons do NOT operate on children. Pediatric cardiothoracic surgery is highly specialized and an infant's heart is nothing like an adult's. Not to mention, malpractice insurance will not cover it.

But what do I know? 

 

Also, pitting edema is never normal, even moreso in young kids. If the pediatrician never noticed that during any visit, they should have their license taken away. 

Edited January 13, 2022 by rwlevin

[babyrambo]

3 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

And the piano playing was even worse this episode.

The tight shots compared to the full body ones were so off(who was that lady playing the piano because it certainly wasn’t Sophia Bush)that I laughed out loud a few times. She was literally just leaning over the piano and vibing lol. 
 

Other than that, it was a pretty predictable episode. The dad is giving the best performance and while I like Sam, she needs to step it up. Her friend being angry about the reveal was silly but understandable, yet I’m indifferent to seeing her and the dad paired off. I also don’t feel a shred of chemistry between Sam and her new love interest but I didn’t feel anything between the old one either so maybe it’s the dialogue. 
 

This show has a lot going on but compared to all the other medical dramas out right now it feels very safe. Greys is pure career and romance fantasy, The Resident is a sexy action movie and New Amsterdam is wholesome and sometimes preachy. They all have their weak spots but none are boring and right now, I’d rather watch any of the above before this. It’s got potential though so I’m hoping the full season gets to air and it picks up.  

[Driad]

My TV piano-related pet peeves:

[1] Showing an actor pretending to play the piano when they can't, e.g. this show.

[2] Not showing an actor playing the piano (cutting between face and hands instead of showing the whole upper body) when the actor really can play, e.g. Hugh Laurie.

[cameron]

19 hours ago, Avabelle said:

With the ratings as they are I’d be shocked if the entire season makes it air.

I've already deleted any upcoming shows.  Waste of my time to watch this show.

[Daff]

On 1/13/2022 at 12:03 AM, statsgirl said:

Jason Isaccs played an evil starship captain on ST:Discovery three seasons ago but even that character is miles better than Ross Griffith.

Patriarch Malfoy, with an ingratiating smile instead of a sneer. 

[Bobcatkitten]

I thought this episode was far better than the first. But still not great. 

[jabRI]

I mean I get that they are competing for the same job, she's his proctor, but I see no family chemistry at all. None. It's really hard to watch.  And I love Jason Isaacs (he'll always be Jackson Brodie to me, luckily I read the books first), but the whole setup is odd.  I don't feel any love for this daughter, nothing.

[Simba122504]

On 1/12/2022 at 10:16 PM, historylover820 said:

 

I was so distracted at the scene where "Sam" was "playing" the piano. I didn't notice it to this extent in the pilot. But, boy it was distracting that this was not Sophia Bush at all when you see "Sam's" hands on the piano. Why make it that piano playing is a hobby of the character and then not cast an actor who can play? If Sophia Bush was the best choice for Sam Griffith, then why keep the piano playing a hobby? You can easily have Sam do something else as a hobby. As it was, boy, that was distracting.

 

It was ordered to series because of Sofia Bush. She's one of the producers. I doubt they were going to hire an actual actor /pianist.  But I agree with your comments. It just wasn't going to happen. 🤣

[historylover820]

So, I wonder why piano playing? It's not much of a decision to do away with the piano playing as a hobby since it's so distracting that it's obviously not Sophia Bush playing the piano.

[tvfanatic13]

I like Sophia Bush and want her to succeed badly. But this show is really not good. 

[Driad]

9 hours ago, tvfanatic13 said:

I like Sophia Bush and want her to succeed badly

If this show doesn't improve, and doesn't get canceled soon, I guess she will succeed badly.

[tvfanatic13]

10 minutes ago, Driad said:

If this show doesn't improve, and doesn't get canceled soon, I guess she will succeed badly.

Lol. My bad. I very much want her to succeed! 

[proserpina65]

On 1/13/2022 at 12:03 AM, statsgirl said:

This show is incredibly frustrating. From the opening scene scene with Sam and her father acting like two children trying to outdo each other in getting into the hospital first (the person I was watching with asked if David Shore wrote this), to the constant personal battling through the episode, this is an hour of bad family relationships.

This is the point where I peaced out on this show.  I just couldn't with them expecting me to believe that her Toyota (I wanna say it was a Prius but that's probably just my bias talking) could keep up with that Mustang.  Never mind they were both driving like idiots.  I love Jason Isaacs and will watch almost anything with him in it, but I cannot deal with this stupid show.

On 1/13/2022 at 5:20 PM, rwlevin said:

Adult cardiothoracic surgeons do NOT operate on children. Pediatric cardiothoracic surgery is highly specialized and an infant's heart is nothing like an adult's. Not to mention, malpractice insurance will not cover it.

Exactly.  Pediatric surgery of any kind is extremely specialized.  Grey's Anatomy got this wrong in early seasons but did eventually bring in a pediatric surgeon.

Edited January 18, 2022 by proserpina65

[ShellsandCheese]

Sadly enough, the relationship between Lex and Rob could be interesting because the actors have great chemistry. I just don’t buy Sophia Bush as Chief of anything and her performance/speech in that board meeting was absolutely laughable, unrealistic, and unprofessional. 

[kaygeeret]

I am out for many of the reasons articulated above.

The acting is great and the cast is lovely.  Too bad they got stuck with the single worst concept in recent memory.

To wit:

Mommy promotes lovely newly MD daughter to dept head.

Mommy appoints daughter to PROCTOR HER FATHER - the daughter's father that is.

Father reacts like an entitled jackass - which many - not all - famed surgeons are -  just ask an OR nurse.

And the hospital board and HR are so on board with the entire thing.......SIGH!

Yes, I understand entitlement and I understand the advantages a young MD with the pedigree her parents provided would have - - AT ANOTHER HOSPITAL!  This is not a bank or a commercial company.  Lives are on the line here and no board would risk lawsuits, etc,

I am sad because the cast really is great and I would love to see them in a show that makes sense.

 

 

[formerlyfreedom]

13 minutes ago, kaygeeret said:

I am sad because the cast really is great and I would love to see them in a show that makes sense.

I'm still sticking around, and the cast is about the only reason at this point. And Jason Isaacs general prettiness. *yes, I AM shallow*

[proserpina65]

17 hours ago, saoirse said:

I'm still sticking around, and the cast is about the only reason at this point. And Jason Isaacs general prettiness. *yes, I AM shallow*

Nothing wrong with shallowness.  I won't admit to how many times I've watched some shows/movies because of someone's prettiness.  (Gods of Egypt, anyone?)  I mean, Jason Isaacs was the only reason I even tried to watch this show to being with.