S05.E07: Chillin', Okay?!

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

A long overdue girls’ night filled with self-reflection and real talk puts things into perspective for Issa and her friends.

Original air date 2021.12.05

[Empress1]

That girls night looked like a lot of fun. Kelli’s random beefs with people always crack me up. “I thought a bird said something!”

The more this goes on, the more I want an “I choose me” ending for Issa. I don’t see it for her and Nathan, and I don’t wa t her with Lawrence. I suspect that “I want you to be happy” stuff between Lawrence and Condola was clearing the air that they aren’t going to be together but are in a good place, to clear the way for Lawrence and Issa.

Also, Issa, sometimes you give yourself closure. The breakup was closure. Not speaking to him for a year-plus is closure. You have a whole new man! What else do you need?

The baby is very cute.

[LydiaMoon1]

I was......bored. Aren't there only 3 episodes left? Everything still feels really up in the air. Oh, well. At least this season has made me look forward to the end. That's somewhat of an accomplishment, I guess.

Edited December 6, 2021 by LydiaMoon1

[Sheenieb]

3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

That girls night looked like a lot of fun. Kelli’s random beefs with people always crack me up. “I thought a bird said something!”

The more this goes on, the more I want an “I choose me” ending for Issa. I don’t see it for her and Nathan, and I don’t wa t her with Lawrence. I suspect that “I want you to be happy” stuff between Lawrence and Condola was clearing the air that they aren’t going to be together but are in a good place, to clear the way for Lawrence and Issa.

Also, Issa, sometimes you give yourself closure. The breakup was closure. Not speaking to him for a year-plus is closure. You have a whole new man! What else do you need?

The baby is very cute.

I would've been annoyed about the cancelled dinner plans. There's only so much weed, throwing back vodka shots, and struggle cookies (really, cool ranch mixed with cookie batter? That HAD to be a high creation and not due to Issa thinking that ranch cookies are a culinary inspiration. At least I hope it isn't, it is Issa, after all) that I could take. However, all of them in their pajamas hanging out on the balcony looked fun.

While I haven't been in love with this season, I do like that it isn't obvious how it will end. Will she stay with Nanceford after he reciprocated her ILY, or will she try again with Lawrence? If she goes back to Lawrence, she'll look like an asshole for hurting Nanceford after calling him out on potentially leaving LA and not communicating. 

I also like that Lawrence and Condola are in a better place. 

I agree that closure conversations, at least for me, are never helpful. Use the time you didn't speak to reflect on why things didn't work out. Issa's career is on an upswing, she's dating again and putting her life back together. Seems like she has all the closure she needs. 

[Hera]

4 hours ago, Empress1 said:

That girls night looked like a lot of fun. Kelli’s random beefs with people always crack me up. “I thought a bird said something!”

It's a shame we haven't gotten another episode with her and Issa's brother. Although it's hard not to feel bad for Kelli—Tiffany is her best friend, but is also the one who is the least available—first because of her baby, and now she's moving to Denver.

So it looks like Molly and Taurean might end up being a thing. I can't say I hate it. But I also really want to know why Dro was calling her. Dro is fundamentally bad news, but I'd love for him to come to Molly and belatedly offer her a genuine relationship, just so that she could say, "Nah, it's too late and I've moved on to someone I have less baggage with."

I also appreciated Issa's friends calling her out on being inconsistent. She allegedly loves Nathan but once Molly gets that call from Dro, she takes it as a sign she should call Lawrence. Molly did a good job stepping in and telling Issa to wait until she had sobered up. But then Nathan called, said the three words Issa had been waiting to hear, and Lawrence is, once again, yesterday's news. Inconsistent is right. Though to be fair to Issa, when Nathan didn't (and still doesn't) know about any of this when he launched that accusation at her.

[tennisgurl]

Girls night looked fun, I always love when the whole friend group is together. This episode was decent, but the whole season has felt rather meh overall, not terrible just alright, which is really too bad considering how good this show used to be. I feel like there is so much left to explore but we're just going through the motions to get to the end.

I am leaning towards Issa choosing herself at the end, even though the show seems to be leaning towards Lawrence. The show has written itself into a bit of a bad spot where they want Issa to end up with someone but threw so much drama at both of Issa's main options that now neither of them look like good choices. She and Nathan just have no romantic sparks and are just generally in weird places, while Lawrence was previously her best option after he got a ton of character development but now having the baby really throws a wrench into things. If they wanted a Issa/Lawrence endgame, why even write in the baby? 

I am glad that Condolla and Lawrence are in a better place though, even if their talk seemed to be heading towards Issa/Lawrence, which is not something I am super into. I am also surprised that the scene in the last episode of Lawrence and Condolla seeing Issa in the hospital was real, I thought her seeing them was just a fantasy sequence, but I guess she really did just hold the baby and give him back, just the drop kicking was the fantasy. 

"These are my going out titties, but they can stay in." Kelli, I think I'll miss you the most. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by tennisgurl

[Empress1]

13 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I am also surprised that the scene in the last episode of Lawrence and Condolla seeing Issa in the hospital was real, i thought her seeing them was just a fantasy sequence, but I guess she really did just hold the baby and give him back, just the drop kicking was the fantasy. 

I assumed she saw them but didn’t speak to them (which is probably how I would have played it).

[Irlandesa]

I think the reason Issa doesn't have closure is because she basically ran from a messy situation but it wasn't a messy relationship.   As a couple, they were in a great place. It's not like he cheated on her and got another woman pregnant.

She broke it off out of fear that she wouldn't be able to watch him have a baby with someone else.  Fear that the situation was going to get messy.  Fear that the relationship wouldn't survive those complications so she broke it off before all the bad stuff she feared happened. I think that left her with what ifs.  

I don't think talking with Lawrence will give her closure.  I think she'd only get that if his life were a dumpster fire but it doesn't seem like it is.  Nor does it seem like seeing him leaves her with no feelings.  She still has feelings. 

I was surprised that she assumed he and Condola were together and Tiffany didn't correct her.  Did the show forget that Derek and Lawrence are pretty good friends?  Or was her keeping silent on purpose? 

 

[Racj82]

7 hours ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

I was......bored. Aren't there only 3 episodes left? Everything still feels really up in the air. Oh, well. At least this season has made me look forward to the end. That's somewhat of an accomplishment, I guess.

Sorry you didn't enjoy it but for many, they love the girls hang out episode. This is the last one we will get and it was a sweet sign off on them as a foursome. 

I also wonder what some people want. This isn't a high stakes show. What threads do they need to answer that they still can't? I just like being with the characters. This is going to be a very life goes on type of finale anyway. It's not building to anything. We will have some finality but they will still be living their lives. Even if Issa doesn't choose Lawrence in the end, it doesn't mean that she never does in her life which is why I don't care about such things.

[LydiaMoon1]

22 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

Sorry you didn't enjoy it but for many, they love the girls hang out episode. This is the last one we will get and it was a sweet sign off on them as a foursome. 

I also wonder what some people want. This isn't a high stakes show. What threads do they need to answer that they still can't? I just like being with the characters. This is going to be a very life goes on type of finale anyway. It's not building to anything. We will have some finality but they will still be living their lives. Even if Issa doesn't choose Lawrence in the end, it doesn't mean that she never does in her life which is why I don't care about such things.

*shrugs* You have your opinion. I have mine. Like I said, I was bored.

Edited December 6, 2021 by LydiaMoon1

[Racj82]

19 minutes ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

*shrugs* You have your opinion. I have mine. Like I said, I was bored.

Yeah, I got that. Just using your opinion as a jumping off point. Your opinion isn't wrong. Just something I don't agree with.

[speedroc]

6 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I assumed she saw them but didn’t speak to them (which is probably how I would have played it).

This is what I thought as well.

 

While I'm on board with those who think the season has been just okay, I think a big reason is that it follows what was (imo) the best season of the show. Plus, we go in knowing this is the end and we may want/expect more up to this point.

 

I do hope that in the end Lawrence and Issa get back together though. 

[aghst]

It was okay.  Still think the chemistry among the characters was more cracking in the first couple of seasons.

Issa is together with Nathan but she thinking still about Lawrence, is the takeaway?

 

For me the biggest potential takeaway is whether Doritos in cookie dough is a real thing.  Hey in the previous season, Issa made herself a late night snack, just throwing cheese on tortillas and microwaving it.  I’ve bought some tortillas and shredded cheese since then.☺️

Or maybe it’s the soggy joints that make these snack mashups work.

[qtpye]

I don't mind Condola and the baby but am annoyed that they are taking up valuable screen time.

If Lawrence is not dating Issa, I really do not give a fuck about what he is doing on his own.

He really should not be a dang character at this point. I'm sorry, the actor is boring.

I would rather that precious time be spent on Kelly or Tiffany.

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by qtpye

[Joimiaroxeu]

Questions in a hat? More like drunk-ass preguntas.

Slick the way Condola got Lawrence to put up her shelves. How does he not see how manipulative she is?

Good casting on the baby. He really does look like both the actors playing his parents.

Then Condola let Lawrence know their future was not together. She might as well have sent Issa a text saying, "You're welcome" as soon as he left her house.

Kelli was just getting ahead of the game with Daniel! Nothing wrong with that. 😏

I was disappointed Molly didn't mention Andrew. AFAIC he should get extra points just for his glorious hair.

Yeah, I don't know if that's a win with Nathan since Issa practically had to beg him to say the three little words. I hope he's truly motivated to go handle his business at the barbershop though, because that ish was foul.

Lawrence sent to voicemail, lol. We have now reached the Embarrassment of Riches portion of Issa's program.

So I learned on reddit that Issa quoted a line from Alicia Keys' You Don't Know My Name ("I do look a lot different outside my work clothes") but I'm not getting the relevance to the scene. Taurean has seen Molly outside of work in casual clothes, and though they don't know each other well they're not really strangers.

[Amethyst]

The Waiting to Exhale vibe was nice, but this isn't what I wanted from the final season.  The pace is so slow.  And now that Lawrence and Condola have called it quits, this makes the Lawrence/Issa pairing even more likely.  If they're going to do it, then just get it over with already.  She needs to end it with Nathan regardless.  Drunken phone call or not, Issa still wants Lawrence and she's dragging things out with Nathan.

Still, I'm happy that Lawrence and Condola are on good terms, for Eli's sake.  Lawrence moving back to LA definitely helped to facilitate that, but it's nice that they want the best for each other no matter what.  

I wondered if Tiffany's move is for her marriage as well.  The writing has implied a few times that and Derek are on the rocks, but they never take it any further.  And with just 3 more episodes to go, this is the most we'll learn about that.  I don't really care for Tiffany, but that never made sense to me.  Hopefully the move to Denver will be good for her family.

I know Natasha didn't want Kelli to be a main character, but I wish they did more with her, too.  She's so talented and she really brought Kelli to life.  The brush with death thing has been played for laughs ever since the premiere.  

 

[lasu]

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Slick the way Condola got Lawrence to put up her shelves. How does he not see how manipulative she is?

FWIW, I didn't see it as manipulative at all, and I think it would be counterintuitive to the scene, which I thought was to show us that they are going to have a mature, platonic relationship going forward.  It seemed to me they were trying to show that if Issa and Lawrence get back together, Condola isn't going to be a major problem.  If we were supposed to interpret her first actions as manipulative, I think that would make us as the audience want Issa involved in that situation less, and it seems this is the end game we are supposed to root for, but...

I'm not.  I already wasn't thrilled with the idea, but now that she has strung along Nanceford long enough to get him to say I love you back, I don't feel like three episodes is enough time to have her break up with Nanceford and get back together with Lawrence without making her seem like an asshole.  I almost think they will have Nanceford bounce out again on her to ease the way, but I don't like that because Nanceford is our character with mental illness, so I don't want him sacrificed like that to prop up Issa/Lawrence.  But I did notice that they placed VERY prominently during that phone call that he has a milk crate for a nightstand, which to me, telegraphed him not putting down roots and being ready to go at any minute.  When you have a nightstand that can be turned into a packing crate with a flip of the hand, you are ready to roll out at any time.

I'm really starting to root for a Kelly "I choose me" Taylor ending.  It's already been done, but I'm just not confident they have enough time left to sell me on Lawrence.  Which makes me worry this show isn't going to stick the landing.

Season one: starts running down the mat

Season two: Hits spring board

Season three: Flips off vault

Season four: double twist in the air

Season five: Stick the landing?  Break both legs?  

I feel like the whole series is riding on these final three episodes.

 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

FWIW, I didn't see it as manipulative at all, and I think it would be counterintuitive to the scene, which I thought was to show us that they are going to have a mature, platonic relationship going forward.  It seemed to me they were trying to show that if Issa and Lawrence get back together, Condola isn't going to be a major problem.

I saw it differently. When Lawrence showed up at Condola's place the shelves just happened to be on the porch where he was guaranteed to see them and ask about them. Then she mentioned that she left them there because "a friend" was going to put them up for her. Presumably the friend was male but she made the person's gender a curiosity for Lawrence by declining to specify it in some way. I wouldn't necessarily say she was trying to make him jealous but the presence of an unknown man in her life seemed to stoke his competitiveness, IMO.

Perhaps "manipulative" is too strong a word but I stand by my belief that Condola wasn't acting innocently or without forethought, in pursuit of the outcome she wanted. It brought to mind this moment from Alice in Wonderland:

Quote

“How do you like the Queen?” said the Cat in a low voice.
“Not at all,” said Alice: “she’s so extremely—” Just then she noticed that the Queen was close behind her, listening: so she went on “—likely to win, that it’s hardly worth while finishing the game.”

I see Condola as being "extremely likely to win" in her relationship with Lawrence, whether he goes back to Issa or not. Via the tether of their child she'll always be able to exert influence in Lawrence's life, at least until the kid is 18.

Quote

If we were supposed to interpret her first actions as manipulative, I think that would make us as the audience want Issa involved in that situation less, and it seems this is the end game we are supposed to root for, but...

I'm not convinced the audience is meant to see Issa and Lawrence as end game. Not yet, that is. I think Issa is still sowing her wild oats and isn't ready to settle down as someone's ersatz stepmommy. She and Lawrence are on different adulthood tracks now.

[MBayGal]

4 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Via the tether of their child she'll always be able to exert influence in Lawrence's life, at least until the kid is 18.

It doesn't necessarily end when the child turns 18.  As a wise friend told me when I was newly divorced, if you have children together, you are never divorced from him, you are divorced to him. Despite my extremely negative feelings about him, I still see him at important events involving our now-adult children, and we have had to negotiate about financial issues involving our kids.

[DearEvette]

My overwhelming feeling of this episode was that it felt very meta.  These four women know they are not going to be around each other constantly anymore that this is an ending of sorts so it felt like a love letter to them.  A long goodbye.  And the mood wasn't as fun or crackling as it has been in the past.  I am thinking of season one when they went on that trip to Malibu.  Even then on that trip, Issa and Molly were on the outs but the mood was still more celebratory.  And then there was Coachella which was a hoot.  And Halloween in Season 3?  They were all hanging out.  This one just felt like it was a goodbye. So it has a melancholy feel.

Even so I still liked the vibe of the four of them hanging out  and someone on twitter pointed out that the scene of them getting dressed to go to dinner was shot reminiscent of the opening credits for 'A Different World' and I totally saw that.

That said.. while I liked he vibe of this episode, I have to agree those in the camp that this season feels... uneven?  Aimless?  It is weird, because this has never been a plot heavy show.  It has always been a character based, slice of life show.  But it has always felt like something was at stake each season.

So far I am not feeling that sense of tension or the feeling that something needs to be resolved.  I think if this final season was going to be about Issa coming full circle and ending back up with Lawrence, they should have kept them together and let us see how their relationship weathered through his fatherhood.  Because in the end, if Issa and Lawrence do end up together that is going to be a fact of her life from here on out.  And it would have been nice to see the growing pains and struggle through that to see how they come out the other end,  It would have felt more earned and triumphant.

As it is, this Issa/Nathan stuff is a non-starter -- it just doesn't have an emotional weight, imo.  And having Lawrence and Condola over there on a whole other plot doesn't work either because Issa is not involved at all.  neither Lawrence nor Issa feel right at this juncture with just  episodes left.

So yeah, I am kinda in the camp of Issa just choosing herself with more more time having been spent on her business.

[lasu]

13 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I saw it differently. When Lawrence showed up at Condola's place the shelves just happened to be on the porch where he was guaranteed to see them and ask about them. Then she mentioned that she left them there because "a friend" was going to put them up for her. Presumably the friend was male but she made the person's gender a curiosity for Lawrence by declining to specify it in some way. I wouldn't necessarily say she was trying to make him jealous but the presence of an unknown man in her life seemed to stoke his competitiveness, IMO.

Perhaps "manipulative" is too strong a word but I stand by my belief that Condola wasn't acting innocently or without forethought, in pursuit of the outcome she wanted.

I hope I don't come across as argumentative; I'm not trying to be an ass, just genuinely curious at what you see that I'm missing.  What is the outcome that she wanted?  For Lawrence to put up her shelves?  He offered before she asked, she deferred, and then he offered again.  I don't disagree that he might have felt like he might have wanted to establish his spot a bit, but that's more on him than her.  And honestly, I do think it's nice for Lawrence to do things for the single mother of his child.  I've dated men who made a point to do something nice for their ex on Mother's Day, and it always made my opinion of that man go up.

 

13 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I see Condola as being "extremely likely to win" in her relationship with Lawrence, whether he goes back to Issa or not. Via the tether of their child she'll always be able to exert influence in Lawrence's life, at least until the kid is 18.

Again, let me preface this by saying I'm genuinely asking: win what?  If she wanted Lawrence, why did she make it clear she wanted him to be happy, underscored by the implication she meant with someone else?  I'm not getting any impression from what we saw that Condola wants Lawrence.  I thought the dumb dad joke that she didn't laugh at earlier added to that thought, plus the way her friends talked about them when they actually were together.

Now, I absolutely agree Condola will always be able to exert influence, and that's just the way things are.  As I said before, I think it's appropriate for him to help her put up shelves, etc.  Conversely, that's the same reason I don't want Issa/Lawrence.  I think it's always difficult to be a step parent.  I think it's more difficult the younger the child is, because you have more two parent involvement in things like what we've seen - going to the pediatrician, etc.  And this is an even more difficult situation because, even though no one cheated, it's not like Issa came on the scene after Condola and Lawrence were completely through.  I think it's difficult enough to start, but when you have felt competition and jealousy about this person, it compounds it.  And with only three episodes to go, if Issa/Lawrence is where they are going to end up, I don't think they have enough time to sell me on it.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

win what? 

Like the Red Queen, she "wins" the outcome she wants, or at least the one that favors her at someone else's expense.

I've seen, up close and personal, people who operate like Condola and perhaps that is helping color my view of her and her behavior. And my view goes back to when she was first introduced as a character. Am standing firm on it until clear evidence is presented by the show to change my mind.

[lasu]

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Like the Red Queen, she "wins" the outcome she wants, or at least the one that favors her at someone else's expense.

I guess that's what I'm still not getting...what is the outcome that Condola is trying to win?

 

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I've seen, up close and personal, people who operate like Condola and perhaps that is helping color my view of her and her behavior. And my view goes back to when she was first introduced as a character. Am standing firm on it until clear evidence is presented by the show to change my mind.

FWIW, I'm not trying to change your mind, just to understand your point of view.  We don't see the same things in Condola, which is fine; she's a fictional character so it's not like we can really know what the writers intended unless they come out and say so.  It's just interesting to me that one person can watch a scene and walk away thinking, "well it's clear Condola is going to be a problem," and the other can walk away thinking, "well it's clear Condola isn't going to be a problem."  Just because I disagree with you opinion, I'm in no position to tell you you're wrong, and I hope this didn't come across that way.

[heatherchandler]

On 12/6/2021 at 9:55 PM, aghst said:

 

For me the biggest potential takeaway is whether Doritos in cookie dough is a real thing.  Hey in the previous season, Issa made herself a late night snack, just throwing cheese on tortillas and microwaving it.  I’ve bought some tortillas and shredded cheese since then.☺️

 

I pray it is not a real thing.  I love a salty-sweet but NO to this mashup.

 

[After7Only]

On 12/7/2021 at 11:35 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

So I learned on reddit that Issa quoted a line from Alicia Keys' You Don't Know My Name ("I do look a lot different outside my work clothes") but I'm not getting the relevance to the scene. Taurean has seen Molly outside of work in casual clothes, and though they don't know each other well they're not really strangers.

In the Alicia Keys video she's a waitress working in a diner where Mos Def is a regular.   They know each other as waitress/customer but Alicia wants to date the guy who she thinks doesn't even know her name.  Taurean and Molly know each other as coworkers but very little outside that.   Which is why her coworkers were surprised by drunk Molly twerking but the viewers were not.   I love the the song, and the video, so I found the "I do look different outside my work clothes" hilarious.  

7 hours ago, DearEvette said:

So far I am not feeling that sense of tension or the feeling that something needs to be resolved.  I think if this final season was going to be about Issa coming full circle and ending back up with Lawrence, they should have kept them together and let us see how their relationship weathered through his fatherhood.  Because in the end, if Issa and Lawrence do end up together that is going to be a fact of her life from here on out.  And it would have been nice to see the growing pains and struggle through that to see how they come out the other end,  It would have felt more earned and triumphant.

That would have probably been more complicated to write.  This season is also about Issa building on her initial success with the Blocc party and figuring out her calling.   She might not have had the freedom to do that if she was also dealing with Lawrence and his conflict on how to be the best dad.     

[DearEvette]

16 hours ago, After7Only said:

That would have probably been more complicated to write.  This season is also about Issa building on her initial success with the Blocc party and figuring out her calling. 

They've proven they can do complicated. Last season was full of complexities.  Between Issa and Molly's relationship breaking down, Molly's own relationship with Andrew, The intro of Condola, Condola and Lawrence, Issa and Lawrence reconnecting, Tiffany's post-partum, and finally Issa's entire arc of getting he block party up and running.  We even got a 'Looking for Latoya' show within a show.

I would feel ok with no real Issa romance if this season really was focusing on her building BLOCC (ha!) but outside of Crenshawn and those couple of scenes of her talking to artists who are hesitant about working with her (which felt like it was more to highlight her beef with Crenshawn than it was about her hustling for her business) but we've barely seen any of that.  Compared to last season where we knew saw each ep she was working hard to get that block party up and running. 

[Hera]

Speaking of Condola, someone mentioned in a different episode thread that it's a shame that her involvement with Lawrence basically wrecked her friendship and working relationship with Issa. I enjoyed the few Condola/Issa scenes we had and I thought the actresses had good chemistry. It's shame that the focus of the show seems to be on Issa's unresolved feelings towards Lawrence and not the fact that she lost a business partner and the possibility of another friend.

4 hours ago, DearEvette said:

We even got a 'Looking for Latoya' show within a show.

I've really missed the show within a show—I was looking forward to seeing what they'd come up with for this season. I was hoping for an American version of "The Drugs" (for context, this is barely a parody of BBC Scotland dramas, which tend to be low budget compared to other BBC output, and are always this heavy-handed).