The Human Beings Known as the Arnold-Klein Family

[wrestlesflamingos]

Of course everyone can discuss more than Jen's hair.  That was my throw away comment after a long day.  Just don't attack each other or campaign for a conclusion.  Say your peace, clarify once or twice, and move on.  This is a chat forum about tv, we're not going to save the world.

[ZoloftBlob]

As for Zoey "taking after" Jen, it's quite a leap from a toddler looking at a picture book to one following in her adoptive mother's footsteps, but I realize that this was the plot line they were pushing on us last season.

 

On the other hand, there's also reading way to much into someone's remark. There are, in the baby book at home, plenty of pictures of me toddling around my mom's sewing stuff with cute captions like "Mommy's little helper" and "she's going to be a quilter just like Mommy" - and I assure you, as hard as *that* agenda was pushed, and my parents make the gender specific activity stuff a lot more overbearing, Mommy never got a sewing helper. So sometimes its frustrating to see every single remark like "Future doctor" at a cute picture followed up by a demand for clarification.

 

I think Bill and Jen are wrong to continue airing the show because I think there's enough examples of damaged kids on reality shows that it should cross their minds. I also think the money is a factor. That said, I don't think they do *everything* wrong - heck I don't think the Roloffs do *everything* wrong and I will cite those idiots as shitty shitty parents on and off tv all day.

[CousinAmy]

Children might not have complete memories of everything that happened when they were very young, but they usually take away something unique from every event. Maybe they won't remember the boat itself, but the secure feeling of holding hands with Mom on a sunny day. Or the color of the water, or even their first taste of a crab cake (for example).

I was lamenting to my boss how I meet students in middle school who were toddlers when I was teaching them, and that they didn't remember the preschool (or me.) But she said they may not remember you, but the encouragement you gave them on the playground had been internalized, and helped develop their self-esteem, etc. Or your interest in listening to their long rambling stories helped nurture their language skills.

Interesting experiences can only add to their memory banks, and help them develop as well-rounded individuals.

[ZoloftBlob]

Children might not have complete memories of everything that happened when they were very young, but they usually take away something unique from every event. Maybe they won't remember the boat itself, but the secure feeling of holding hands with Mom on a sunny day. Or the color of the water, or even their first taste of a crab cake (for example).

 

So I have to share. :)

 

My parents loved educational sorts of things like taking us to Boldt Castle and the St. Lawrence Seaway. The memory I have of that trip? Was that it was scorching hot, like in the oven hot, on the concrete locks (a memory that is completely at odds with the Adirondack region where it sometimes snows in June) and that we were walking on *dead people* because lots of lock workers were murdered by being thrown into the wet concrete as the locks were built.

 

My takeway? I hope they wait on the Disneyland trip until the kids are old enough to appreciate it. :)

[Kohola3]

Children might not have complete memories of everything that happened when they were very young, but they usually take away something unique from every event.

 

Gosh, yes.  I don't have specific memories from when I was very young (although I distinctly remember my sister's bassinet in the front window of our living room when she was born and I wasn't yet 3) but I certainly have a warm glow when I go places like our cottage remembering the feeling of love and fun we had there as a family.  It's the memory of being with loved ones, not necessarily a specific place or event, that stays in our minds.  

 

By the same token, if things are spooky or unpleasant, that's probably stored in the memory as well.  Certainly walking on dead people would stick to you!

[Ohmo]

I hope we'll be allowed to express an opinion other than "her hair looks good" without being accused of creating contention, because I - for one - believe there are more important issues to discuss.

 

 

I don't know if I'd consider issues any "more" or "less" important, but what I perceive here (and in other media outlets) is that people have to be more protective of Will and Zoey than their parents are.  I think it is unrealistic to assume that if you put yourself or your children out there for public view that people are not going to comment.  I understand that the kids are 4 and 2, and I'm not advocating any rudeness or meanspirited words.  However, I disagree with the assumption that just because viewers don't know everything about a situation that all discussion is going to cease. If you willingly show me two kids who look cranky at that time of the day, I'm going to speculate about what caused the behavior. Putting oneself on public display is an invitation for public comment.  It's going to happen.

 

Since I haven't seen the kids, I'll talk more about Jen and Bill.  Bill once said that he and Jen were trying to combat the perception of little people being on display like they were years ago when many performed as circus acts.  Well, the two of them and their children aren't freaks and they are not performing in a circus.  However, they have made the decision to put themselves and their children on a similar or even greater level of publc display than years ago.  People had to physically go to a circus.  Now people can just turn on a TV or a computer.  It's a nicer, kinder, gentler, more socially acceptable form of public display than years ago, but it is still very much display, and it's display based on the fact that they both have dwarfism.  It's also display that they themselves chose to engage in.

 

The "E" word (education) gets thrown around a lot when it comes to Bill anf Jen.  I'll give you another "E word." Equality.  As I've mentioned, I have a physical disability.  I think I'm a reasonably nice person.  I readily admit that I have a serious stubborn streak.  If I were to be on a reality show, odds are high that I'd display this streak, and I'd get called on the carpet for it.  And that would be OK.  That's the price of fame.  Many things can exist on the same plane with having a disability.  For example, it's not a person's goal in life to have a disability, so I can appreciate that facet of Bill and Jen's life.  Just on the basis of humanity, I am sorry that Jen and Bill have had to deal with her cancer.  Yet, also on the same plane, I think Jennifer Arnold behaved like a controlling shrew more often then not when I watched the show.  She had a scowl on her face more often than not when things didn't go her way.  I don't care that she's an accomplished doctor.  I don't care that she has dwarfism.  She is not someone I would choose to seek out or be friends with.  Yes, I don't know everything about her, but this is what I saw based on her decision to be on public display. That is my reaction to what I saw.

 

If the kids are going to be on the show, the same types of reactions are going to be made about them.  There's a reason that President Obama and Presidents Bush and Clinton before him kept their children out of public view.  No view results in no behavior to comment about. If Jen and Bill want something similar for their children, there's an easy way to fix that.  In my opinion, it's the responsibility of the observor to be responsible when he or she comments.  However, I think observors should be able to comment on the observed behavior of who is being shown, even when those individuals are 4 and 2.

 

I genuinely tried to "not be a dick." While I think the kids should be talked about respectfully, it's their parents who made them available for comment...and that should not only include positive comment, in my opinion.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Ohmo

[wrestlesflamingos]

We've hidden some posts that are more about this thread than the show. Lets stay on topic.

[BeaVee]

I have been a customer at Rocky & Maggie's from the beginning and I can say that when the crew has been there filming, they are not intrusive at all and are extremely nice to the people in the store.  I have met Bill and he is very kind and very funny to chat with. 

 

I don't usually comment here because I live fairly close to them and see them often around the area and have nothing but nice things to say about them and have heard nothing but nice things about them from other neighbors - which I'm sure some people will take with a huge truckload of salt - but with all the comments that I see here, I did want to say something as someone who has actually met Bill. 

[CPP83]

That's great to hear BeaVee, Bill and Jen have never set off my reality bs meter, as it were, and most do so it's always nice to hear from someone who has met them in person and it was a positive experience.

 

I think that one of the reasons I am not so concerned about Jen and Bill ending the show for the kids' sake right now is that they have been, from my pov, very responsible in what they do and do not show. I feel like the episodes break down more like a family sharing their scrapbook with you, but I don't get the feeling that I am really intruding on their every day lives.

 

I get an idea about how they're doing, how things are going, but I have never felt that the show really takes it to the next level of airing overly personal moments or shots, especially of the kids. 

[Fostersmom]

I think that one of the reasons I am not so concerned about Jen and Bill ending the show for the kids' sake right now is that they have been, from my pov, very responsible in what they do and do not show. I feel like the episodes break down more like a family sharing their scrapbook with you, but I don't get the feeling that I am really intruding on their every day lives.

 

I get an idea about how they're doing, how things are going, but I have never felt that the show really takes it to the next level of airing overly personal moments or shots, especially of the kids. 

 

I feel like I've seen much more of random kids lives on Facebook than I have Will or Zoey's. I went to a giant high school. My graduating class was 806 kids, and we were one of the smaller classes in a while. The class ahead of us was 900 and my sister's the year after was 1000. That leads to people you have zero idea of who they are, but because you already have 30 friends in common, you accept their friend request because you feel you have to. I've seen thousands and thousands of pictures of kids I have never met, have not intention of ever meeting, and in some instances, have no idea who their parents even are. Some of these kids I've seen since before birth thru sonogram pics till now and others when they were older. Nothing goes undocumented, 100 pics at a time. School, sports, birthdays, holidays, vacations, sleepovers, random trips to the grocery store, swim lessons, camping trips, even pics of them sleeping. I can tell you where these kids go to school, what the name of their team is, what days they have practices, meets, or games, who their best friends are, and pretty much every family memory they have had since birth.

 

As much as people say this show is all scripted and not real life, I say good. Maybe that way we only see a very small, very specific event, chosen and edited, and not their day to day activities. I shouldn't be able to tell you where random kids go to school or when they have (insert sport here) practice. I'd much rather see Will and Zoey picking strawberries once (6 months before hand ) at a place I've never seen and will never be at, than know the daily activities and schedules of kids I could easily get to, if I was a lunatic and wanted to. Note to parents, stop tagging your location at every place you go. I not only know the days of little Billy's soccer practice, but also the field name since you have so thoughtfully tagged it for us. And since I'm fairly certain you have not even met all 800 "friends" you seem to have, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you have your privacy setting set to friends of friends, so that creepy guy we went to junior high with, who for some reason you are "friends" with, i'm guessing some of his even creepier friends love nothing more than seeing the 150 pics of your preteen daughter and her softball team, all in bikinis, at a pool this weekend. Yeah, that one is a real example. She's got literally 800+ "friends" and I can't tell you how many pics of the daughter, or the even younger daughter at gymnastics, and thousands of pics of her kids and all their team friends. I've actually known her since 1st grade, and her sister was married to my cousin before he died, but I won't be surprised when something wayward happens to one of her kids or a pic of them end up on the internet. There's at least 10 more like her on my Facebook feed. I feel like I know more about all their kids than Will or Zoey. 

[CPP83]

As much as people say this show is all scripted and not real life, I say good. Maybe that way we only see a very small, very specific event, chosen and edited, and not their day to day activities...I'd much rather see Will and Zoey picking strawberries once (6 months before hand ) at a place I've never seen and will never be at

 

 

 

That is exactly how I feel. I do think this show is heavily edited and planned out ahead of time, and it seems Bill and Jen have a lot of control over what's shown, where they go and what they do and whether or not to involve the kids, and I appreciate that. Reality TV is so much about being a voyeur at times, and when it comes to adults that's one thing, but when it's a family with small children I like to see some restraint shown, some common sense and decency at work, and I think they do far more right than wrong.

 

I am not watching them potty train Will or go with him to every single vocal therapy visit, we never saw Zoey visiting the therapist after they brought her home or even hinted that she was getting that sort of help, for example, so watching the show makes me feel as if I'm on a mini vacation of sorts, all of the everyday is removed and you just get snippets of things to enjoy and smile about.

[Kohola3]

I am not watching them potty train Will or go with him to every single vocal therapy visit, we never saw Zoey visiting the therapist after they brought her home or even hinted that she was getting that sort of help, for example, so watching the show makes me feel as if I'm on a mini vacation of sorts, all of the everyday is removed and you just get snippets of things to enjoy and smile about.

 

I feel the same. I almost always feel good and positive after watching an episode. Nobody's life is all rosy and we have seen a very difficult time in Jen's life but I still need to tune in whenever they are on.  I think I would like them both in "real" life if I were to meet them.  It's nice to know, BeaVee, that you have actually met them and support the fact that there positive comments to be made about them.

[mbutterfly]

I have been a customer at Rocky & Maggie's from the beginning and I can say that when the crew has been there filming, they are not intrusive at all and are extremely nice to the people in the store.  I have met Bill and he is very kind and very funny to chat with. 

 

I don't usually comment here because I live fairly close to them and see them often around the area and have nothing but nice things to say about them and have heard nothing but nice things about them from other neighbors - which I'm sure some people will take with a huge truckload of salt - but with all the comments that I see here, I did want to say something as someone who has actually met Bill. 

Thank you for sharing that. It is quite different than comments we hear from people who live near and have met some other TLC families (well the adults).

[Steff]

In a world of so much negative on tv, be it news or reality tv, I find it pretty amazing that so many of us feel happy & positive after watching the show.  It's one of the few shows that there is more positive & uplifting to it than nasty & negative.  We aren't seeing everyone yell or complain or fight for no reason.  It's a rare (and special IMO) thing to find an uplifting show on tv.  And I'm almost shocked that 2 shows I really enjoy (this one and Who do you think you are) are on TLC. 

[BizBuzz]

Perception is a funny thing.  A lot of the time, what is true and what people think are true are not the same. 

 

Is it our job at PTV to distinguish between the two?  Not usually, after all, the mods here are doing this for free.  Yes, that is right, we are not paid.  We frankly don't have time to right a perceived wrong, even though we could.

 

While you have the right to your perception, you do not have the right to change mine (or any other posters). 

 

There have been posts hidden this past weekend.  The reason why is they are not properly stating their own perception without challenging others.  That wont work here.  This forum has been given too many chances in the past so now we are being heavy handed with the modding.

 

If one of your posts has been hidden, I suggest you contact either me or wrestleflamingos to find out why. 

 

Biz and wrestleflamingos, as well as the rest of The Mod Squad

[cassaundroll]

May I ask the mods quite frankly...  Is this now a fan site?  Because it certainly seems that any criticism of the Arnold-Kleins -- however warranted -- will not be tolerated here.  And, I might add, it's quite an obvious and contradictory contrast from threads about, for instance, "19 Kids and Counting" and even "Little People, Big World," in which the families are regularly insulted with no moderator interference.  What accounts for this difference?  Thank you for clarifying.

Edited August 25, 2014 by cassaundroll

[BizBuzz]

Since you chose to handle this outside of the PM like I specifically asked, I will handle this here as well. 

 

First, we are not to be compared to other reality shows.  I will ask you nicely, please do not bring that up again.  The Little Couple is a strange beast in that as far as forums go, there are haters and lovers.  For 19 Kids and Counting, and Little People, Big World, forums generally fall mostly on the hate side.  We have already approached the mods to those forums and this phenomena has been confirmed.

 

Second, don't go there with this being a fan site - you know this is a snark site, so we encourage the snarking.  If you look through this thread, we have allowed a lot of non-pro comments to The Little Couple.  What we will no longer allow is the attempt to belittle the posters that happen to find the Arnold/Kliens entertaining and have fun watching them.  No longer will anyone be allowed to address a poster's perception. 

 

If that is still not clear, might I suggest someone spend the money and start their own forum for The Little Couple. 

[jodo]

I joined this forum a few months ago as they were finishing the first season of bringing Will home.  I loved the show and followed them everywhere, Twitter, FB and loved talking about the episodes and all the posts I read were like like like and more like!  I was in!  Then the odd poster started giving their take on what they had seen or heard and I though hmm how dare they!  Anyhoo over time and after reading more and more posts like that I started to feel differently about the show.  When I started to see Will not doing well in spite of everything money could buy for him and his medical care I thought geez I wish that kid could catch a break and be off tv for a while. 

 

This show might now be in the liked category and those likers rule but if enough change their minds like I did then someday the show won't be so liked and the kids will be off tv.  Here's hoping.  

Edited August 25, 2014 by jodo

[cassaundroll]

I might just point out that "Little People, Big World" was also much loved in early days, as was "Jon and Kate Plus Eight."  Both, however, obviously remain very much on the air (minus Jon)...

Edited August 25, 2014 by cassaundroll

[BitterApple]

Fostersmom, your post is exactly why I can't stand FB anymore. 

 

I think every TLC reality show starts out with the family being adored, then it gradually devolves into a huge mess. I think the same thing will happen for the Kleins. Will and Zoe are cute, but at the end of the day, kids are kids. Cuteness wears off pretty quickly and when you have one kid who can't talk and another who prefers to live in her own world, there's not much entertainment value left to milk out of that cow. So we'll have an upcoming season of trips and badly staged outings and it will be downhill from there (my opinion, of course:).

 

Regarding Zoe, Jen seems very determined to have a daughter who is a mini-me, so it wouldn't surprise me if she pushes Zoe into activities and hobbies that she likes, regardless if Zoe has an interest or not. 

[BizBuzz]

I don't watch reality shows so I have no opinion one way or another, however, if it is true that all reality shows turn into a hate fest, then it's only fair to let this show progress on it's own rather than move things along before it's time. 

 

My point is that those that hate can continue to hate, as long as they don't try to make others hate as well.  The opposite of course is true, but I don't see that happening as often.

 

State your opinion as it applies to YOU and YOU alone and we wont touch your post.  Berate others for their opinions, and we are on you like white on rice.

 

This includes being passive aggressive.  And believe me, I am the Queen of PA, I can see it a mile away, so don't play games with me.  ::giggle::

[mbutterfly]

O/T, I admit, but I'm pretty good at passive aggressive myself and the thought popped into my head what a great reality show it would be if you featured two or more people who were Tony Soprano's mother level passive aggressive. It would be a hoot. 

[mbutterfly]

Sure, and I think everyone who thinks vicariously enjoying watching someone else's children grow up on national TV is harmless fun - even for the the children themselves - should read these books.  The ones I've read are:  Jon & Kate Plus Eight:  Reality TV and the Selling of the Gosselins by Polly Kahl and Reality Bites Back: The Troubling Truth About Guilty Pleasure TV by Jennifer L. Pozner  I have my own theory as to why we DO enjoy such programming, but that's another post for another day! 

I had already read the two specific to Jon & Kate. To me, I didn't get a broad sense of how reality television works in those two books as they were so focused upon Kate's manipulations of everyone. Taking the Kate-factor out not much would be left to those two. I confess, I found them a fun read. So I got Jennifer Pozner's book from the library. It is a pretty scholarly book and well written. The focus there is very much on gender stereotypes and most particularly how reality tv devalues/stereotypes women and ethnic minorities. It is probably a valuable read for anyone who watches reality television. It was published in 2010. About the only reference to children was in sections referencing Toddlers and Tiaras. I was surprised there was no mention of Paul Petersen. There is also no reference to Jon & Kate nor the Duggars. So it is kind of focused elsewhere, but a serious read.

[jodo]

http://instagram.com/p/sKoaR8q-eZ/

 

Off to school!

[joanne3482]

I hope the kids aren't responsible for wrangling those step stools around the classroom! 

[Fostersmom]

I'm fairly certain that's their garage, but I could see how those stools would be beneficial in a lot of schools. Hell, I could have used one in college when our only cabinet space was a built in above our closets and to get to it, I had to stand on my desk chair that reclined, trying to balance just right as not to tip backwards and bust my ass or head. 

[jodo]

so is the garage the "school?"  looks like it was snack time!

[joanne3482]

It looks like the photo was taken out front of the house before they left for school. A lot of my FB friends with kids do the "first day of school" shots outside. But Jen calls them their new step stools which is what made me think they would be taken to school for the kids' benefit. The stools look like the ones Matt Roloff used to sell (maybe he invented them?). The handle with the ball used to steady themselves when they step on it. But they also look unwieldy and difficult for Zoey and Will to move by themselves if they needed to move it from location 1 to location 2. Although since they're starting preschool, they usually have step stools everywhere because the preschoolers are so little anyway.  

[Absolom]

I thought they looked like Matt Roloff step stools also.  I don't think Zoey would be very good moving that one around.  It looks too heavy for her to be able to do than push it a short way. 

[NewGranny]

It's a tv show not a deposition. I don't think Bill was being evasive by saying school instead of Preschool #17 on Main Street.  The curiosity came from us. It's pretty common for school to be used for any age child. Even college kids go back to school.

I actually ask my daughter if my 9 month old granddaughter had a good day at "school" when obviously she is in daycare.  LOL

[Fostersmom]

Maybe those stools are going to their classrooms for everyone's use? They might not be in the same class since they are different ages. Those are certainly higher quality and safer than the little plastic stools my nephews had in their preschool classes in 2 different church basements. Those suckers liked to slide across the floors. 

[BizBuzz]

As I have already mentioned, I don't watch any Reality TV - I am a bit cautious to admit I didn't even know about The Little Couple until I came to PTV.

 

Since being here however, I am more familiar with the ins and outs of Jen, Bill, Will and Zoey than I am of my own family!  ::giggle::

 

But seriously, I am a researcher by nature, so once I started modding this forum, I have kept up with news and such of the Arnold/Klien family and I find the story quite interesting.  Again, I have no opinion for or against as I absolutely abhor reality tv, but I enjoy stories of reaching goals despite adversities, and Jen fits into the kinds of stories I like to read about.

 

Here is a news story of an event she just did this past weekend.  I am a coach, and I have used this same phrase THINK BIG acronym in my coaching, although with slightly different words chosen. 

 

Just thought I would share.

 

(Please keep in mind that since this post isn't in GOLD, this means I am posting as a poster, and not a moderator.)

[Kohola3]

I appreciate that link and reading the article. I especially liked the fact that she recognizes something that many of us tend to ignore - how lucky we might be but how quickly that can evaporate. We all need to be appreciative of what we have every day.  

"I have been fortunate to have achieved almost everything I have wanted to accomplish in life,” she said. “Battling cancer has taught me that no matter where you are in your journey, it can all be taken away in an instant and you have to appreciate everything you have."

 

[BizBuzz]

I though this picture was cute:

 

http://www.realitytea.com/2014/08/27/photos-reality-tv-stars-twitter-pictures-roundup-family-edition-august-27th/#/slide/1

[Lillybee]

They are adorable children.

[Fostersmom]

In all the pics I've seen of Will lately, he looks like he's gotten a bit taller. 

[CPP83]

That picture is incredibly cute. What I have to love is that Will is busy reading the coupon insert from the newspaper, probably searching for a good deal on cake, heh.

[joanofarch4]

Did anyone else catch the promo with this couple in the kitchen, saying cooking is a nice chance to talk and have a glass of wine?  I saw it once and never again...  It was rather odd!  What were they promoting?

[jodo]

Did anyone else catch the promo with this couple in the kitchen, saying cooking is a nice chance to talk and have a glass of wine?  I saw it once and never again...  It was rather odd!  What were they promoting?

 

no

[BizBuzz]

There hasn't been much news as of late for the Klein family, but I did find a couple of articles that were nice:

 

What Kind of Doctor is The Little Couple's Jen Arnold?

 

and

 

‘Little Couple’ kids head to preschool; Jen Arnold packs Will, Zoey’s lunches

[Jellybeans]

They are growing up fast!

[Jellybeans]

anyone know when the new Season begins?

[BizBuzz]

anyone know when the new Season begins?

 

I tried to find some information, but alas, nothing yet.

 

But I did find this.

 

Can I just say that this child (Zoey) is absolutely beautiful?

[Kohola3]

Can I just say that this child (Zoey) is absolutely beautiful?

 

Yes you can.  Because she is.  Those eyes!

[BizBuzz]

Yes you can.  Because she is.  Those eyes!

 

Oh yeah, and plus, her Mom seems to know what color looks best on her (I see her usually in bright colors) because they just accentuate her gorgeousness! 

[wrestlesflamingos]

She has the skin tone that could carry any color, even yellow. Very few humans can wear yellow well.

[Jellybeans]

I tried to find some information, but alas, nothing yet.

 

But I did find this.

 

Can I just say that this child (Zoey) is absolutely beautiful?

Thank you! Zoey is soooo cute!

[LazyToaster]

She has a dimpled elbow! So much cuter on her than it would be on me...

[Absolom]

I'm glad to see that she has apparently adjusted very well.

[LegalParrot81]

http://instagram.com/p/sj_6J1K-Uf/?modal=true

 

Love the expression on her adorable face.