The Human Beings Known as the Arnold-Klein Family

[Snow8585]

It is very true that the kids be treated like the most wanted kids in the world. And they are. However, Will and Zoey have already experienced loss from birth parents, experienced loss when they were taken out of the places they called home and moved to a different country.   The fact that it has been documented by TLC that Bill and Jen went to great lengths to try to create a biological child before they tried adoption could be hard to deal with when the kids are older. And further, I believe that when the TLC crew finally leaves for good, Will and Zoey will experience another sense of loss as these TLC folks have been with them since they first met their Mom and Dad, Bill and Jen. And of course it is a good thing Bill and Jen adopted them because they faced bleak futures where they were.

[Lillybee]

I believe that Bill and Jen started applying for adoptions while they were still trying fertility treatments.

[CousinAmy]

Instead of worrying how children will judge their parents' choices - because don't most kids judge their parents' choices? - I think that they will feel special because their parents chose them.

The Gosselin kids said on the most recent episode that they watched some of the old videos and far from being horrified, they actually enjoyed them.

[SistaLadybug]

I come from a family that fosters/adopts.  It is a normal part of our family life.  My grandmother was a foster parent.  My mother is a foster parent and has been for most of my life.  My baby sister is adopted.  She began her time with us as a foster child, at seven years old.  She is now 20.  She knows full well that, had she not come to our home as a foster child, she would never have become part of our family.  Our home was the home of "last resort" for her.  She has a family of origin that she still sees from time-to-time.  We are her family by choice.  She is no less a part of our family unit than I am or than my brother is, though we are the children who were born to my mother.  She was chosen.  She is wanted.  She is loved.

 

I have one biological child.  She has wanted a sibling, always.  I want to have more than one child.  One day, I believe I will adopt.  I will not keep that from the child.  S/he will know that s/he was chosen, is wanted and is loved, no more and no less than the child to whom I gave birth.

 

I did not have to go through fertility treatments to become pregnant.  That said, I and my then-husband were not trying to conceive.  We were not ready for a child at that time.  We were not prepared.  But here she came and every day of my life has been sweeter since.  Technically, she was what folks would call an "accident" (I don't believe in accidental pregnancies, but we'll use that for sake of argument).  She is no less loved, no less wanted.

 

Children come into our families by so many different ways.  I don't think Will and Zoey will be hurt or harmed by realizing their parents tried to become pregnant before adopting them.  They will see how very much the parents they have truly *wanted* to be parents.  How they prepared themselves.  How they planned.  How they tried.  They will know that, when biology failed them, these two people so wanted to love and raise children that they searched the world over for them.  They will know how much they were wanted ... that they were chosen.  That is a gift that not many people have.  I think it's absolutely lovely.

[ZoloftBlob]

The Gosselin kids said on the most recent episode that they watched some of the old videos and far from being horrified, they actually enjoyed them.

 

The Gosselin kids, like the Duggar kids, and like the Roloff "kids", are all coached by their parents to present a certain image about reality tv. What you will never hear from any of these families publically is that the kids were unhappy... at least until TLC stops filming.

[Cherrio]

The Gosselin kids, like the Duggar kids, and like the Roloff "kids", are all coached by their parents to present a certain image about reality tv. What you will never hear from any of these families publically is that the kids were unhappy... at least until TLC stops filming.

Ain't that the truth.    And in a way they are like trained seals, having to '' perform'' cutesy little things, faces and phrases that will "entertain".

    The kissing thing that the Kleins do incessantly is nothing more than a task to perform.   Its the same as wipe your face.

[gunderda]

Totally agree - Kate's "we're making memories" comments always sounded like complete rationalization to me. I really doubt the Gosselins sit around watching "J&K+8" videos. It's been all about a paycheck, or a route to lots of freebies, to her from the very beginning. 

They actually say they watch them all the time.  What's the truth? Who knows, but as I stated earlier I love watching videos from the past and I especially did when I was younger (cause they were all VHS movies.....) so I don't think it's that far fetched that they would enjoy watching them. 

[joanne3482]

The kissing thing that the Kleins do incessantly is nothing more than a task to perform.   Its the same as wipe your face.

 

But that's how you teach affection to small children. I grew up in a home without much affection. We did not hug or kiss each other on any sort of regular basis. Now, as an adult, I'm uncomfortable with casual hugging and have to force myself to give my friends' daughters kisses when they want a kiss. It is completely unnatural to me. My sister and I made it a point with my nephew (who lived with my parents and I during those toddler years) to kiss him and hug him often and have him kiss and hug us often so he would understand it is normal and loving.  Now, as an adult, he is a hugger and affectionate. 

[gunderda]

But that's how you teach affection to small children. I grew up in a home without much affection. We did not hug or kiss each other on any sort of regular basis. Now, as an adult, I'm uncomfortable with casual hugging and have to force myself to give my friends' daughters kisses when they want a kiss. It is completely unnatural to me. My sister and I made it a point with my nephew (who lived with my parents and I during those toddler years) to kiss him and hug him often and have him kiss and hug us often so he would understand it is normal and loving.  Now, as an adult, he is a hugger and affectionate. 

Same here - my family is a loving family but we did not show affection AT ALL.  It was only when my parents moved out of the state when I was in college that they wanted to start the goodbye and hello hugs and to be honest it was awkward and it's been over 10 years and it's still awkward lol

Now I see that they started good bye hugs with my nephews when they were little so they are used to it.  

I am not a hugger to anyone - it feels weird to even give my grandparents a hug.  So I wish I was brought up with it more as well. 

[Cherrio]

I dont believe you teach children affection, you show it and give it.     Its my view that the Kleins seem to have used this kissing thing as a trick both kids will perform.

         I have seen Bill be natural in his love and affection many times though.

[Snow8585]

I only thought it was a little over the top when Bill asked Will to hold Zoeys hand while they were sitting right next to each other on the train ride after Wills party. Seemed staged for the cameras.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

The Gosselin kids, like the Duggar kids, and like the Roloff "kids", are all coached by their parents to present a certain image about reality tv. What you will never hear from any of these families publically is that the kids were unhappy... at least until TLC stops filming.

 

As do Will and Zoey and their outcome will not be any different.  It will either be positive or negative depending on the coin toss.     

 

ETA:

 

Jen and Bill are not exempt from TLC "pressure" to get the kids to "perform" in any way they can and this puts them in the same category as the other parents.  

Edited March 10, 2015 by Foghorn Leghorn

[LazyToaster]

I wish every child in the world had parents wanting to hug them and kiss them this much. When I watch the show it seems very sincere to me.

[mbutterfly]

I wonder how Will and Zoey will feel when they see Jen and Bill trying fertility treatments and surrogacy first and when those methods did not work, then they tried adoption.

They will feel like most adopted children because that is typical. I can -- as an adopted child -- promise you, they won't be bothered at all. It isn't different than a situation in which a couple tries for many years, perhaps has some miscarriages, then late in their marriage give birth to a child. That child doesn't think about the children who were not born in previous years. Who even thinks about such things? 

[Snow8585]

My comments are focused on Jen and Bill and Will and Zoey.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Snow8585

[Honey]

Being that they were already signed up for adoption when they were trying the fertility treatments or whatever they were doing, I think if that had been successful they would now have 3 children.

 

I can't imagine that they would have said no if the approval came through, even though they had a biological child.  They already had Will when the approval came for Zoey and they couldn't say no to her.

[Snow8585]

They could have passed on Zoey but Jen really really really really wanted a little girl. Anyway, we will never know but Will and Zoey ended up in a forever home which is what matters.

[Jellybeans]

Ain't that the truth.    And in a way they are like trained seals, having to '' perform'' cutesy little things, faces and phrases that will "entertain".

    The kissing thing that the Kleins do incessantly is nothing more than a task to perform.   Its the same as wipe your face.

I don't know about that, my kids were very "kissy" with me (my son still is and he is 33) and my s/o is as well. Perhaps they are my trained seals but some families are more affectionate than others, some are less so. All families have their own way of showing affection.

[SistaLadybug]

I come from a physically affectionate family.  There are lots of kisses, hugs, back pats, etc.  It's been that way my whole life and it's how I've raised my daughter.  It's wonderful to me.  I love that, even in times when there's been disagreement or tension, in the end, there's still the kiss and hug "hello" and "goodbye".  There is a reaffirmation of love and affection.  I think it's important.  The touch of another person, particularly a loved one is necessary.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

I was watching a clip from the TLC (network) site of Bill and Jen giving a TH update of what life is now like after Bill's surgery.  It sounded like Bill referred to Jen having to get CPAPS on for the night.  I replayed it and clearly heard an "s" which means Zoey must be on one too?  And it sounds like Bill can't do anything with the kids as he can't lift or bend over at all.  That must be hard on the kids who don't understand.  

 

found the link    http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/little-couple/videos/how-are-you-faring-as-bills-caretaker/

Edited March 11, 2015 by Foghorn Leghorn

[Snow8585]

Clearly plural. Wow I guess Zoey has sleep apnea too. Oh boy and i bet its been going on a while, just like with poor Will until Bill and Jen intervened. Interesting, they showed all that stuff with Will but nothing like that with Zoey. Huge change in sharing info.

[wrestlesflamingos]

It must be terrifying to have children that stop breathing while sleeping. I'm shocked they aren't aging like the president.

[BW Manilowe]

Clearly plural. Wow I guess Zoey has sleep apnea too. Oh boy and i bet its been going on a while, just like with poor Will until Bill and Jen intervened. Interesting, they showed all that stuff with Will but nothing like that with Zoey. Huge change in sharing info.

Or perhaps they felt they'd already been through a sleep apnea/CPAP machine explanation on the show with Will, so doing 1 with Zoey would be an unnecessary repetition. Or maybe Zoey's diagnosis with sleep apnea will be covered in the next batch of eps (I think Jen Tweeted they'd be on sometime this Spring).

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Jen posted a pic of the kids eating at the "big kid's table" on twitter.  Rattan chairs, kids and food are not a good mix when it comes to cleanliness.  Jen's ocd will go into overdrive!  LOL    

Edited March 14, 2015 by Foghorn Leghorn

[Snow8585]

I wonder if that is the same pic where the tabletop is so clean it looks like a mirror. Really lovely table but it wont stay that clean for long.

[ZoloftBlob]

Rattan chairs, kids and food are not a good mix when it comes to cleanliness.  Jen's ocd will go into overdrive!  LOL

 

Actually it tells me she's letting go of some of the OCD when it comes to cleanliness. Consider - they're kids, they're going to make a mess and she's letting them have fun at the table and the rattan chairs.

 

Point - when I was a small child, we kids were NOT allowed into the formal living room unless under supervision and we were expressly warned to not touch anything under threats of smacks.

 

Letting the kids make a mess at the table seems quite a relaxation for Jen.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

I wonder if that is the same pic where the tabletop is so clean it looks like a mirror. Really lovely table but it wont stay that clean for long.

 

I don't think so, there is another photo of the dining room table that appears mirrored.  This one appears to be wooden table top and is a newer photo and the kids are both in red and white striped tops.   

[Snow8585]

Looks like they have graduated to glassware or plasticware and not sippy cups.

[Wellfleet]

I don't think so, there is another photo of the dining room table that appears mirrored.  This one appears to be wooden table top and is a newer photo and the kids are both in red and white striped tops.   

 

Maybe they're eating at the round table back near the pantry now?? Smaller, lower table IIRC. Looks like it would be much more comfortable for the whole family. I don't think it had a glass top. I only remember the table was dark - brown or maybe black. Looks like the area is set for breakfast/informal eating. Coffee breaks, snacks etc. Looks rather cozy to me personally. No reason the family couldn't eat there regularly and save the "dining room" for entertaining, holidays - and "try to keep our nice things nice" as my Mom used to say.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Yes it is that round one we often see in pics, beside the pantry I think.  Always wondered why they didn't use it for everyday.  

[Foghorn Leghorn]

I was glad to see the children eating at the kitchen table. I hope that this means that the high chairs are gone for good. I hope they also get rid of the stroller. Will is 5 years old. I think that he's way too old for a high chair or a stroller.

 

Oh so true about the stroller!  I for one want to see progress with both kids but especially Will.  No strollers, no diapers, and both talking!   

 

Bill tweeted a couple of weeks ago he was in Florida at the pet convention so he must be well enough to travel.  From what I have read about spinal fusion recovery the no bend, no lift, no twist rule can be the norm to a degree for some time if not forever.  Now both he and Jen are further challenged and both kids have gained more weight as their pictures show on twitter.  How does Jen get the kids in and out of the car alone?  I wouldn't be surprised if that apartment is now the home of a caregiver/housekeeper.  Kate was hired as Will's caregiver with another child on the horizon and although she likely performs some light housekeeping I doubt she is responsible for the heavy house cleaning/laundry/grocery shopping and I am sure the yard work and pool are contracted out for maintenance.

[ZoloftBlob]

Do you need them to admit to having a caregiver?

 

I don't know if they do but really, is it necessary for the Kleins to stand up and say "Since Bill's *spinal surgery* and since we're both of short stature, we have to admit publically we need a caregiver! We aren't capable adults, capable of raising our children! We have a caregiver because we can not take care of our children and in order to be honest, we must ALWAYS admit how physically incapable we are,"

 

Is it necessary? DOes Jen need to start every conversation with "I am a mother but I have to admit to needing a caregiver as I am NOT PHYSICALLY CAPABLE of functioning as a mother. I must ALWAYS admit to needing help. Any time I don't ADMIT MY PHYSICAL PROBLEMS, I am a liar!"

 

Now that Bill has had the spinal surgery, does he need to start every conversation with "SInce my spinal surgery, I am still a father, but I AM PHYSICALLY INCAPABLE of tending my children and MUST ADMIT MY INCAPABILITY or else admit how I lie."

 

Do people understand how humiliating it is for someone to lose physical capability and be forced to admit it? I know people who have needed a caregiver and who have *wept* at the idea that they can no longer take care of themselves.

 

That's before I get into how Jen makes a  nice wage as a doctor and I know plenty of physically capable people who have nannies and housekeepers so please explain to me why its a crime for a family with the income to afford it to have servants. Why isn't it a crime for my neighbor to have a nanny and a maid despite absolutely no handicap, while the Kleins need to get down on their knees and humbly admit they have a nanny and *possibly* a caregiver because they must be honest and admit their physical inability to parent?

[gunderda]

Not to mention the kids are probably pretty capable of getting themselves in and out of the vehicle.  They can climb into their seats, all Jen or Bill probably has to do is strap them in.

[Absolom]

I want to hear about the Klein's gardeners about as much as most people here probably want to hear about my gardeners who coincidentally are just now packing up their truck to leave.  It doesn't matter does it?  I don't think anyone thinks more or less of me because I can't mow a yard.  It doesn't affect my opinion of Bill for sure.  

[gunderda]

Disabled people take care of their own kids every day.  Why is this such a hard stretch for people!?

[ZoloftBlob]

Jen and Bill are the ones who chose to capitalize off of their limitations. If their limitations are embarrassing for them, I don't think that they should have signed up for a tv show.

 

So yes, you do think Bill and Jen should be required to state they are physically incapable?

 

I don't want to put words in your mouth - you consider it a lie if someone with a physical disability doesn't expressly state their every physical incapability?

9 minutes ago

 

I want to hear about the Klein's gardeners about as much as most people here probably want to hear about my gardeners who coincidentally are just now packing up their truck to leave.  It doesn't matter does it?  I don't think anyone thinks more or less of me because I can't mow a yard.  It doesn't affect my opinion of Bill for sure.

 

Absolom - I don't mow my own lawn because I don't *like* to, and the older I get the more it hurts my knees. Apparently I need to wear a sign of shaming with "I AM NO LONGER CAPABLE OF MOWING MY ENTIRE LAWN WITHOUT PAIN PLEASE JUDGE ME AS LESS" on it.

[Absolom]

ZoloftBlob, apparently you need to make one for me also.  In full confession mode, I also employ a housekeeper.  I'm officially lying every time I don't precede my comments with I no longer mop floors, clean cabinets, or change beds it seems.  

 

I had a period of time where I had to use a wheelchair for mobility.  I hate to have to tell people but it was absolutely possible to parent my children from the wheelchair.  I remember my smart mouthed pre-schooler telling one officious middle aged woman off for daring to make a comment about my taking the kids to the zoo while I was in a wheelchair.  It's truly a shame when the three or four year old understands while the 50ish supposedly grown woman did not.  Not a child was lost, harmed, or ran off.  

[SistaLadybug]

I am within "normal" height range. That said, I am very short, 4'11", to be exact.  I can't reach many things in my house.  I have step stools all over the place.  Upstairs, I actually have a ladder.  Many times, I need people to get things for me, both at home and in public.  If I could afford to have everything in my house customized to make them comfortable/reachable for a person of my stature, I surely would.  It's my house - it should be comfortable to me, not for the people who will visit me.

 

By the time my daughter was three or four, she was too heavy for me to carry.  I HATE housekeeping and sometimes I hire someone to come clean for me because I would rather pull teeth than dust.  I am a working mother and, as such, I need others to help me.  I have a coterie of people who watch, feed, drive around and otherwise care for my daughter in my absence - both when I am working and when I am simply taking some time to myself because, though I'm not particularly well-off or a SAHM, I still believe I deserve it.

 

I need these things and people.  I need this help.  And when/where I don't need it, I want it.  And if I can afford it or people love me enough to offer it, so much the better for me.

 

I think if what we want from Bill and Jen is reality, then what we should expect is that they will operate in the world like real people.  Life does not look like you expect it looks when you peer in other folks' windows.  Maybe they really don't need the overwhelming amount of support you might think they need or maybe they don't think it's important to run the credits every time they make it through the day.  If someone asks me who raises my daughter, I say "I do".  That's a simple answer and I don't owe it to anyone to go into any further detail.  The detailed answer would be, "I do.  I have lots of help.  I would like to thank the following people for their undying love and support: my mom, my dad, my stepparents, my brother, my grandparents, my aunts and uncles, my cousins, my friends ...".  No one is going to do that.  No one should have to do that.

[Snow8585]

I guess this is an example of how public interest is fuelled when you are on a TV show about your life. People will ask questions about everything and anything. I still think about Bill's comment about finding a fan on their front porch. I wonder if they have second thoughts now that they have a family. I guess we will know soon enough if they sign up for another year.

And truth be told, they used their medical conditions to qualify for a reality tv show when it was just the two of them. They offered the public a view of their daily lives. I really enjoyed one ep where Bill was showing viewers how he would throw something at an item on a shelf that was out of reach to knock it down. I havent seen anything like that in a while. Wish there was more of that.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Snow8585

[ZoloftBlob]

And truth be told, they used their medical conditions to qualify for a reality tv show when it was just the two of them.

 

Yup. And the armless little boy in the "Please donate to Shriner's Hospital" playing the piano with his feet was chosen not because of his acting or playing abiity but because he has a medical condition. Perhaps instead of "I believe in independence" he *should* be saying "I'm begging for money because my parents can't afford the medical care of a handicapped child" - which is the truth and he needs to say it because he's been expressly chosen to be on tv because of his medical condition, right?

 

And the wounded vets in the Wounded Warrior commercials (and in the case of the obviously brain damaged, their family members) all need to be honest and fess up how they are no longer physically capable of tending themselves. After all, they're using their medical conditions to get donations on tv.... they really should have their faces ground into their shameless begging right? They wouldn't be on tv if they didn't have medical conditions so they need to say it again and again because they need to know their place as less and that as less they are allowed NO dignity and must always have to say how incapable they are.

 

Btw - Amy Roloff and Matt Roloff have a housekeeper. Do you think they might be offended, as relatively well off people, to know that since they are little people, the housekeeper must *really* be a caregiver due to their handicaps? Hell, I have seen Matt's hired man physically lift him into equipment - would you need to hear Matt Roloff say "I am physically incapable of driving a tractor without my caregiver's assistance"? He's on tv too, and clearly does need physical assistance - why no demands that Matt *admit* his incapability and *admit* he's getting assistance?

Edited March 17, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[Snow8585]

My comment is focused on Bill and Jen.

[ZoloftBlob]

So is mine.

 

I'm offering you examples of people doing the same as Bill and Jen. Do they all have to admit their physical incapability? Or JUST Bill and Jen. Focus on Bill and Jen, and why do ONLY Bill and Jen deserve to publically state their inabilities while others in identical (Matt Roloff, Amy Roloff) are not required to make the same public admissions about their handicaps? You want to talk about just Bill and Jen so do it - explain why Bill has to, at every task he needs help with, explain in express detail how his physical handicap limits him and what help he has to have in order to function and to what level does he have to explain himself in order to not be considered a liar? I already understand that they must call a possible housekeeper a "caregiver" as they must admit their need to have a caregiver tend them. WHat else will satisfy you since you do require their faces be rubbed in their handicaps?

[Wellfleet]

I guess this is an example of how public interest is fuelled when you are on a TV show about your life. People will ask questions about everything and anything. I still think about Bill's comment about finding a fan on their front porch. I wonder if they have second thoughts now that they have a family. I guess we will know soon enough if they sign up for another year.

 

Agree - that would have seriously scared me, whether I had kids or not. I would have shut things down the first time I opened my front door and found some goofy fan standing there grinning. IMO, since TLC broadcasts clear images of their new house throughout the episodes shot in Houston, they should have been EXPECTING that to happen. But then I like having a private life and never would have agreed to TV, especially TLC, in the first place. 

[Snow8585]

Im not suggesting anyone rub anyone's faces in anything. Have a green beer!

[ZoloftBlob]

I think it is in poor taste to compare people who have made a decision to capitalize on their disability on a reality tv show to our wounded veterans trying to raise money for other wounded veterans

 

Most of those wounded vets are receiving assistance from the organization they are on tv for. They directly benefit from their tv time. As do the kids on the Shriners commercials. As to the Kleins and their show. I think its in poor taste to continually muse on how someone with a handicap MUST have a caretaker of some sort assisting them and MUST be lying.

 

Matt Roloff is a perfect person to compare to the Kleins. He truthfully shows how he gets the work done on the farm. We don't see him miraculously show up in the tractor.. He does not try to imply that he has no help.

 

Now you're just playing games. SHow me the scene where Matt admits he actually doesn't build his many projects but merely stands around ordering others about. Matt *says* he built the trebuchet.... under the rules you want the Kleins to obey, Matt needs to admit he merely had the idea, Mike and the hired help did all of the work because Matt has to admit he's not physically capable of doing it. Matt also needs to turn to the camera every time he's lifted into a tractor and say "Because of my handicap, I can't do this unless my caretaker helps me, as I am NOT physically capable of getting into this tractor unless I am helped". That is what you want the Kleins to do.

[ZoloftBlob]

So you do need Jen to verbally say her mother is coming along to assist as she is physically incapable of participating, even though its obvious from watching that Jen will be overseeing.... but you don't need Matt Roloff to verbally say he will be requiring assistance as he is physically incapable of participating, even though its obvious from watching that Matt will only be overseeing. Why is it a lie for Jen and the truth for Matt?

[ZoloftBlob]

And Matt doesn't say he built the trebuchet?

 

And you do understand you're holding Jen accountable for Judy's "lie"?

 

And I am putting that in quotes because I think Judy was attempting to avoid the "MY DAUGHTER IS NOT PHYSICALLY CAPABLE" face rub in the dirt you want to see.

[Wellfleet]

Nobody said that the Kleins had to declare anything verbally. Matt Roloff shows us the truth. We see him overseeing the job while others do the work. This is not the case with Bill and Jen. They try to make us think that they do everything alone. Judy's words - Jen doesn't need my help to take her son out for the day, but I'm glad that I was invited. In my opinion, this is a lie.

 

Agree. I haven't gotten the impression that anyone here, on either side of the issue, wants Bill & Jen to admit, out loud and on camera, that they need help around the house and/or with the kids. To me, it's obvious they do, and there's nothing wrong with that. Even if they were average-stature, they're two busy professional people with healthy-enough incomes to afford help. Lots of people, of every size, condition and socio-economic status, have daily help with ordinary things. For all kinds of reasons. To me, it's the apparent concealment of this on "The Little Couple" that makes it so noticeable. As far as I can recall, "LPBW" never verbally stated "Well see, Matt is always dreaming up these wild ideas. But he's a dwarf and the poor guy has a lot of difficulty walking without crutches or a scooter, so he could never ever build them himself. He gets A, B and C do the actual work..." They didn't need to - it went without saying. If I was Bill or Jen or one of the producers, I'd have an occasional shot where, in the background, a housekeeper is removing clothes from the dryer. Or putting the vacuum cleaner away. Or unloading bags of groceries. No verbal explanation or TH necessary. Do even people in background shots have to sign releases and be paid? Doesn't your face at least have to be recognizable before this is required? Is this why we don't see the help? I don't know, I'm asking. Bottom line, I think viewers really want to see their normal, everyday life - however that's accomplished. Not every minute of it, obviously. But if it includes housekeepers, gardeners, babysitters, grandparents, neighbors, whatever - don't pretend it doesn't occur.

 

PS - strongly agree with auntl. Judy completely blew Jen in with her comment. That was the patented "non-denial denial" from Watergate days. She should have kept her mouth shut or better still, have just said how much she was enjoying being a grandmother and looking forward to many more such trips with Jen and Will. No one would have questioned a thing. Sometimes it's all about spin...

Edited March 17, 2015 by Wellfleet

[ZoloftBlob]

I haven't gotten the impression that anyone here, on either side of the issue, wants Bill & Jen to admit, out loud and on camera, that they need help around the house and/or with the kids. To me, it's obvious they do, and there's nothing wrong with that. Even if they were average-stature, they're two busy professional people with healthy-enough incomes to afford help. Lots of people, of every size, condition and socio-economic status, have daily help with ordinary things. For all kinds of reasons

 

Then why are we having this constant offensive debate? If NO ONE wants to hear it out loud and on camera, and its obvious from watching that they do receive help.... then why are there people constantly wishing they WOULDNT LIE and would ADMIT they receive help? Seriously. I don't understand why if, you don't want it verbally stated, what the complaint is then. Because this:

 

They are very quick to show their accomplishments and accept the praise. Yet when it comes to showing where they get help, they leave it out.

 

Tells me there is an expectation that if Bill and Jen don't expressly verbalize that they are receiving help, they are liars accepting undeserved credit.

 

And let me clarify If you don't expect them to verbally pronounce their every disability and receipt of help, then what do you expect to SEE on the show to indicate to you that they are being honest about receiving help.

Edited March 17, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[xldb2004]

I think some of the Jen hate is envy. People seem okay with poor little people. They enjoy watching people struggle. They are happy they don’t have the funds to modify their homes because they want to "keep it real". But Jen, even with her physical limitations had the drive and intellectual capacity to go to Johns Hopkins, become an MD, get a masters degree, teach, become a department head at a respected hospital, marry an attractive man who adores her, adopt two of the cutest kids on the planet and makes a ton of money. Jen doesn't live any differently than any other department head at a major hospital. Their houses and cars are probably comparable and I bet they have housekeepers and someone to take care of their kids. I think people are jealous of how well Jen played the cards she was dealt and it just makes them feel better to find every character flaw in Jen they can, real or imagined. They harp on the fact Jen doesn't show the struggle, just amazing, fantastic results. What’s wrong with that? Unless one takes pleasure in watching other people’s hardships?