S03.E08: Chiantishire

[Stella]

On 12/7/2021 at 2:13 PM, Lassus said:

I just re-watched the accident, starting when the kid in the car does the ketamine.  

Kendall REFUSES, because he wants coke, and the kid says he knows a guy.  Because after the K the kid is barely conscious Kendall offers to drive, because he's fine.  Now, I don't KNOW what he's done before because I didn't watch the whole episode, or if he's just maybe got a couple drinks in him, but he's certainly playing it very straight.  He's futzing with the stick shift, concerned about his lack of driving, conversing, and then he swerves to avoid a deer then lands in the water.  He eventually surfaces, and then tries to go back down to help the kid, but fails.  Then he leaves, rather in shock.

So the crime, the "murder" seems to be... not telling anyone right away?  I remember him sneaking back to the house, but there's no other traffic and waiting to help would be worse.

As always, the cover-up is worse than the crime?  Unless he was functionally high at the time.

It's annoying that some writers call it murder because I think that is patently incorrect. I mean he did make an attempt to get the guy. Not heroic but not murder! Kendall should have called for help (though probably no phone at the scene) or alerted authorities when he got back. It's vehicular manslaughter I guess. I'm not excusing him I just appreciate the few writers who seem to get the details right. Thanks for highlighting the scene.

[caitmcg]

29 minutes ago, aghst said:

The title of the episode, "Chiantishire," wasn't coined by the show.

It describes some English privileged people who would go to Italy, Tuscany as it turns out, to spend summers.

So it's a 19th century, maybe even earlier thing.

One example would be Room with a View by E.M. Forster, which was made into a movie with Maggie Smith and Helena Bonham-Carter.

On a similar not, the title of “Too Much Birthday” is a reference to a Berenstain Bears picture book. Plot summary from Google books:

Quote

Join Papa, Mama, and Brother, as they help Sister celebrate her birthday. The special day is not all fun and games when Sister becomes overwhelmed by all of the festivities. 

 

[xaxat]

How does this deal get done? Sandi and Stewy were skeptical before it transformed from a takeover to a merger. Shiv looks like she is willing to do anything to torpedo Roman. And who knows about Kendall. That's a lot potential "no" of board votes. 

I get the feeling that Roman is underestimating Matsson management chops. Sure, he's got the tech, but his ideas about destruction (presumably of legacy products like amusement parks, cruise lines and newspapers) and "up or outs" seemed like a blueprint for his vision of the future of Waystar/Royco. Roman argued in the boardroom that the family would maintain control while ceding some of the optics of control but I don't think Matsson would fall for that.

PS Matsson, if you truly want someone who can deliver as much failure as fast as possible, look no further! I'm you guy! And I work cheap (only six digits.)

 

[Lady S.]

Yeah, Matsson may not be a "clown" or whatever Logan said, but I definitely don't think Roman's description of "rock-solid" was accurate either.

[TimWil]

On 12/7/2021 at 3:17 PM, Bluesky said:

Yes, that was a new actress playing the part of Sophie.  Which confused me about how many years were supposed to have passed. Not sure if the son was played by the same kid.  

Those are the same kids who played Sophie and Iverson back in the pilot (shot ten months before the second episode)-it’s just that it’s been four and a half years between the pilot and this episode was shot and they’ve both experienced growth spurts! I think the entire series so far only takes place over eighteen months but there you go.

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Inviting your ex-husband's estranged brother's grandson to your wedding is pretty unusual, I think.

I think it would have been a good idea to include a line where Caroline says something to one of her kids like, "I've done a lot to please your father, like inviting his obscure relatives."

It might not be standard, but it doesn't seem strange enough to seem fake. He's a cousin of her children who sees them all pretty regularly and she knows that since, iirc, Scotland. It's a big, lavish wedding for rich people and Caroline has reasons to want ties with Logan's family still. Logan probably sent her a list of who she should get invitations in his circle. 

[Ellaria]

9 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

It might not be standard, but it doesn't seem strange enough to seem fake. He's a cousin of her children who sees them all pretty regularly and she knows that since, iirc, Scotland. It's a big, lavish wedding for rich people and Caroline has reasons to want ties with Logan's family still. Logan probably sent her a list of who she should get invitations in his circle. 

Agree. Greg at Caroline's wedding doesn't seem strange to me. Logan most likely did send a list. Since Logan's other demands - like keeping Kendall separate from him - were met, Greg's inclusion doesn't seem unusual. 

11 hours ago, xaxat said:

How does this deal get done? Sandi and Stewy were skeptical before it transformed from a takeover to a merger. Shiv looks like she is willing to do anything to torpedo Roman. And who knows about Kendall. That's a lot potential "no" of board votes. 

I get the feeling that Roman is underestimating Matsson management chops. Sure, he's got the tech, but his ideas about destruction (presumably of legacy products like amusement parks, cruise lines and newspapers) and "up or outs" seemed like a blueprint for his vision of the future of Waystar/Royco. Roman argued in the boardroom that the family would maintain control while ceding some of the optics of control but I don't think Matsson would fall for that.

Sandi and Stewy would certainly need to be advised about the change from takeover to merger. I'm skeptical if this deal gets done...at least this season. I question a lot about Matsson. He is eccentric and a bit of a wild card. (Alexander Skarsgard seems to be having fun with the role.) I also agree that Roman's "read" on him is not to be trusted. This isn't going to go as planned.

[poeticlicensed]

I think Caroline loves the idea that her non-posh husband to be has her family up in arms. She knows exactly who he is but his social climbing behavior amuses her. Thats why she agreed to the big wedding. He wanted Logan there so he could pick his pocket. And Caroline laughs while he does it. 

Someone on a podcast who is a fashion editor pointed out that as expensive as the clothes that the Roys wear, there's something off about how they dress, like their clothes just slightly dont fit or are on the edge of being bad. I thought that was interesting. The same fashion editor said Willa had the most style because she grew up buying off the rack and understands style. Willa always looks great. Even Tom looks better in his clothes than any if the Roys 

Edited December 9, 2021 by poeticlicensed

[BlackberryJam]

1 hour ago, poeticlicensed said:

I think Caroline loves the idea that her non-posh husband to be has her family up in arms. She knows exactly who he is but his social climbing behavior amuses her. Thats why she agreed to the big wedding. He wanted Logan there so he could pick his pocket. And Caroline laughs while he does it. 

Someone on a podcast who is a fashion editor pointed out that as expensive as the clothes that the Roys wear, there's something off about how they dress, like their clothes just slightly dont fit or are on the edge of being bad. I thought that was interesting. The same fashion editor said Willa had the most style because she grew up buying off the rack and understands style. Willa always looks great. Even Tom looks better in his clothes than any if the Roys 

While Shiv's pants are always fabulous, her sundresses were oddly tight in the torso/straps. I noticed it. 

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, poeticlicensed said:

Someone on a podcast who is a fashion editor pointed out that as expensive as the clothes that the Roys wear, there's something off about how they dress, like their clothes just slightly dont fit or are on the edge of being bad. I thought that was interesting. The same fashion editor said Willa had the most style because she grew up buying off the rack and understands style. Willa always looks great. Even Tom looks better in his clothes than any if the Roys 

This is great to hear because I did always wonder if I was supposed to like their clothes and I have actually wondered if I'm supposed to be impressed by their clothes and just am not because I don't know fashion. Especially when Shiv wears a nice dress and I assume it's supposed to be fabulous and it always looks like it's pinching or bulging somewhere that makes it seem uncomfortable.

[Bluesky]

4 hours ago, poeticlicensed said:

I think Caroline loves the idea that her non-posh husband to be has her family up in arms. She knows exactly who he is but his social climbing behavior amuses her. Thats why she agreed to the big wedding. He wanted Logan there so he could pick his pocket. And Caroline laughs while he does it. 

Someone on a podcast who is a fashion editor pointed out that as expensive as the clothes that the Roys wear, there's something off about how they dress, like their clothes just slightly dont fit or are on the edge of being bad. I thought that was interesting. The same fashion editor said Willa had the most style because she grew up buying off the rack and understands style. Willa always looks great. Even Tom looks better in his clothes than any if the Roys 

Shiv is always badly dressed.  Her dresses are too tight. Her shirts under her suits are not flattering.   I wonder if it’s because she was supposed to,have grown up with no mother, no female guidance.   

[poeticlicensed]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

This is great to hear because I did always wonder if I was supposed to like their clothes and I have actually wondered if I'm supposed to be impressed by their clothes and just am not because I don't know fashion. Especially when Shiv wears a nice dress and I assume it's supposed to be fabulous and it always looks like it's pinching or bulging somewhere that makes it seem uncomfortable.

It has to be intentional because Sarah Snook has an amazing body. Roman always looks rumpled. When Marcia got off the plane in Italy her suit was so ill fitting i was like wah? I think its supposed to symbolize that for all their money the Roys really don't fit in with the moneyed class. 

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, poeticlicensed said:

It has to be intentional because Sarah Snook has an amazing body. Roman always looks rumpled. When Marcia got off the plane in Italy her suit was so ill fitting i was like wah? I think its supposed to symbolize that for all their money the Roys really don't fit in with the moneyed class. 

I'd think it's more about how for all their money they're still constricted, awkward, miserable people rather than making a point about them not fitting in with the Old Money snobs. That seems too sympathetic to them and seems to suggest people can have this much money and not be terrible if they're the right people, and I doubt the show would want to say that. Seems more like every super rich person just has their own awfulness.

[aghst]

2 hours ago, poeticlicensed said:

It has to be intentional because Sarah Snook has an amazing body. Roman always looks rumpled. When Marcia got off the plane in Italy her suit was so ill fitting i was like wah? I think its supposed to symbolize that for all their money the Roys really don't fit in with the moneyed class. 

 

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I'd think it's more about how for all their money they're still constricted, awkward, miserable people rather than making a point about them not fitting in with the Old Money snobs. That seems too sympathetic to them and seems to suggest people can have this much money and not be terrible if they're the right people, and I doubt the show would want to say that. Seems more like every super rich person just has their own awfulness.

I don't think it's intentional at all.

She looks fine.  A fashion person might not like it because she's not tall and thin like a model.

She's young but she hasn't prioritized being fit or being all about fashion.

[sistermagpie]

14 minutes ago, aghst said:

 

I don't think it's intentional at all.

She looks fine.  A fashion person might not like it because she's not tall and thin like a model.

She's young but she hasn't prioritized being fit or being all about fashion.

Who hasn't prioritized being all about fashion? If it's Shiv, that's an intentional choice by the costume designer. If it's Sarah Snook, her not being as tall and thin as some would not mean the costume designer on a big budget show dressing her as a rich person couldn't dress her in a way that a fashion person thought looked well-fitted and flattering. This isn't a discussion of the actor's bodies, but the costumes. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by sistermagpie

[poeticlicensed]

18 minutes ago, aghst said:

 

I don't think it's intentional at all.

She looks fine.  A fashion person might not like it because she's not tall and thin like a model.

She's young but she hasn't prioritized being fit or being all about fashion.

Actors don't generally choose what they wear. Everything about this show is so deftly written down to the very subtle details including locations, dialogs.  I would find it weird that the fashion was not intentional. I wasn't knocking Sarah, as I said she has an amazing body, but the costumers are dressing her oddly, especially this season. I have to believe its on purpose. 

[Bluesky]

18 hours ago, TimWil said:

Those are the same kids who played Sophie and Iverson back in the pilot (shot ten months before the second episode)-it’s just that it’s been four and a half years between the pilot and this episode was shot and they’ve both experienced growth spurts! I think the entire series so far only takes place over eighteen months but there you go.

Wow, she grew.  He looked similar but she didn’t.   I found an article she wrote.  She’s 12 or 13   Her parents are Indian immigrants. She’s been singing and acting since she was three years old.   
 

She thinks that her being cast in Succession will give young women of color someone to relate to.  Kind of like Kamala Harris.   Like I said she’s 12 or 13.  

3 hours ago, poeticlicensed said:

It has to be intentional because Sarah Snook has an amazing body. Roman always looks rumpled. When Marcia got off the plane in Italy her suit was so ill fitting i was like wah? I think its supposed to symbolize that for all their money the Roys really don't fit in with the moneyed class. 

I never noticed Marcia’s clothes.  I would assume she would have clothes tailored for her.  

[MBayGal]

10 hours ago, poeticlicensed said:

Someone on a podcast who is a fashion editor pointed out that as expensive as the clothes that the Roys wear, there's something off about how they dress, like their clothes just slightly dont fit or are on the edge of being bad

Yeah, that super-tight sundress did not do Shiv any favors!

[MBayGal]

1 hour ago, Bluesky said:

She thinks that her being cast in Succession will give young women of color someone to relate to.  Kind of like Kamala Harris.   Like I said she’s 12 or 13.  

 I wonder how many 12-y-o girls watch this show?

[CatWarmer]

Just found time to watch this episode last night and am amused by the fashion discussion.  The outfit that made me laugh the most was Greg’s short sleeve polo shirt.  It’s exactly the look my clueless adult son would think was appropriate.

[aghst]

50 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

Yeah, that super-tight sundress did not do Shiv any favors!

Maybe not fashion-wise but if she wanted to be noticed, draw some male gaze, it worked.

[MBayGal]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

2 hours ago, MBayGal said:

Yeah, that super-tight sundress did not do Shiv any favors!

Maybe not fashion-wise but if she wanted to be noticed, draw some male gaze, it worked.

You do have a point there!  I don't recall her wearing other outfits that so emphasized the size of her ass. 

[maggiemae]

Thing is Shiv's bare shoulders are not an asset.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 12/9/2021 at 4:16 PM, aghst said:

I don't think it's intentional at all.

She looks fine.  A fashion person might not like it because she's not tall and thin like a model.

She's young but she hasn't prioritized being fit or being all about fashion.

Yeah, I'm shocked that people think the Roys' clothes fit badly.  Sarah has a body like Jessica Rabbit, she looks fucking amazing in dresses.  I don't like her wearing turtlenecks all of the time, I think that's super out of style, but obviously a stylist has decided that that's Shiv's business look.

I'm a "fashion person" but I love what Shiv wears when she's not working.  When she's working, it's way too buttoned up or Amish for me.  But her body is just to die for.  When she puts on a dress for a party or a gala she is exquisite.  

Roman is always in immaculately fitting clothes.  I always think he looks great.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 12/9/2021 at 8:41 PM, MBayGal said:

You do have a point there!  I don't recall her wearing other outfits that so emphasized the size of her ass. 

Shiv's body is legendary on social media.  I think that people are just not used to seeing a non-stick thin woman wearing close-fitting clothes on TV.  I think she looks great.

 

On 12/9/2021 at 4:37 PM, poeticlicensed said:

Actors don't generally choose what they wear. 

I think the poster was talking about the character rather than the actor.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[nb360]

So… the whole cruise line story is gone now?

[Pestilentia]

3 hours ago, nb360 said:

So… the whole cruise line story is gone now?

I'd call it "on pause."

We don't think it is going any further but at this point it's not certain.

[rhygirl720]

On 12/11/2021 at 4:06 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Yeah, I'm shocked that people think the Roys' clothes fit badly.  Sarah has a body like Jessica Rabbit, she looks fucking amazing in dresses.  I don't like her wearing turtlenecks all of the time, I think that's super out of style, but obviously a stylist has decided that that's Shiv's business look.

I'm a "fashion person" but I love what Shiv wears when she's not working.  When she's working, it's way too buttoned up or Amish for me.  But her body is just to die for.  When she puts on a dress for a party or a gala she is exquisite.  

Roman is always in immaculately fitting clothes.  I always think he looks great.

I agree! Shiv normally looks good that's why those pinstripe pants were tragic. I also agree that Roman is generally impeccably dressed. None of the Roys are fashion model body types with the exception of Con and Willa wo both always look amazing.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Roman has his clothes very tightly tailored - I feel like I knew that before I even started watching the show.  He's obviously no model - he's tiny - but he's able to wear things tailored extremely close and doesn't have an inch of fat on him.  It's how clothes are supposed to look (if you're that height).

I love that the show shows off Sarah Snook's curves - when she's not in the office.  When she's in the office it's too many turtlenecks, too many layers, too much clothing in general, it just looks wrong.  There's a way to do women's suits that don't look like THAT.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[rhygirl720]

3 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Roman has his clothes very tightly tailored - I feel like I knew that before I even started watching the show.  He's obviously no model - he's tiny - but he's able to wear things tailored extremely close and doesn't have an inch of fat on him.  It's how clothes are supposed to look (if you're that height).

I love that the show shows off Sarah Snook's curves - when she's not in the office.  When she's in the office it's too many turtlenecks, too many layers, too much clothing in general, it just looks wrong.  There's a way to do women's suits that don't look like THAT.

Truthfully a woman in a business pantsuit is a little off the mark fashion wise regardless of the tailoring...but maybe that's the point.

[sistermagpie]

27 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Roman has his clothes very tightly tailored - I feel like I knew that before I even started watching the show.  He's obviously no model - he's tiny - but he's able to wear things tailored extremely close and doesn't have an inch of fat on him.  It's how clothes are supposed to look (if you're that height).

 

Maybe that's what always makes me feel uncomfortable for him. He's never looked to me like his clothes don't look exactly the way they're meant to look. I can see that his shirts fit right, the buttons aren't straining or anything when he stretches. They're obviously cut to fit exactly the way they do. I just wouldn't ever want to wear clothes that tightly fit.

As for Shiv, yeah, to me when she wears dresses they always make me feel the same. The dress she wore to that gala thing where she saw Kendall, for instance, just did not look good to me. She herself didn't look bad or anything, I just didn't think I'd want to be her wearing that dress.

I am not a fashion person, though, so can't say anything about it from that pov. I just know that when someone quoted some fashion person saying it it rang true for me. Not because I think they look bad, but because I've never thought that somebody looked great either. They just look like they're dressed for whatever the thing is.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, rhygirl720 said:

Truthfully a woman in a business pantsuit is a little off the mark fashion wise regardless of the tailoring...but maybe that's the point.

I think suits on women can look great if they're done right.  They just seem to be afraid to put Sarah in chic suits, maybe because of her curves?  And they go too radically in the other direction for me and I don't get it.  They want her to have a signature look, but I personally don't like it.

[Dobian]

On 12/5/2021 at 7:44 PM, Sharper2002 said:

The dinner scene between Kendall and Logan with Logan using his own grandson as a t

I kept picturing Logan dressed as Henry the Eighth in that scene. 😄

What a truly loathsome man.  He has no love for anyone.  All he cares about is his own ambition.  His kids are only useful to him if they do his bidding, or if one of them is good enough to take over his empire eventually.  Otherwise, he wants them out of his way.

[Scatterbrained]

In the previous episode we learn that Roman can’t whip out his male anatomy where it might be appropriate (men’s restroom) and can’t seem to keep it in reproductive working order with women who are attractive and willing.  So, the pics are, oddly, a sign of trust, I think.