S03.E03: The Disruption

[Kel Varnsen]

2 hours ago, smartymarty said:

Going on the TV show was exciting to him only for him to make jokes, too. Once it got real, he ran away and hid.

Yea it was all fun for him when he was winning vs Logan. Like he went to the office to mess with him and they couldn't fire him. And his lawyer said the immunity deal was coming. So in his mind he was safe to go on TV and make jokes because who cares if some late night host makes fun of him if he ends up Waystar CEO. But once the letter hit, he no longer was winning the war. Although I imagine if the story about the FBI raid had it an hour earlier he would have gone on the show.

1 hour ago, Evie said:

I'm not so sure he won't flip. Tom's furtive call to the law firm immediately after talking to Logan has me questioning whether his offer was genuine or if he has a plan. 

He still might. I wonder if he was expecting Logan to show a bunch of gratitude and promise to help him if he fell on his sword (because he had never spoken to Logan before?)? 

47 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

My heart constantly breaks for Tom, or maybe Matthew MacFadyen is just that good, I

He is really good I can't believe this creepy corporate weasel is the same guy who was a cool badass spy on that show Spooks I used to watch on DVD.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Kel Varnsen

[Diapason Untuned]

13 hours ago, RealReality said:

Its just occurred to me that Logan may consider himself doubly insulated from any gunfire. 

He now has Gerri and Shiv.  Seems like he put himself in a good position to say that he certainly isn't a misogynist and obviously knew nothing about any of this because....well, look, he put two women in charge.  And if they steered the ship wrong in a time of scandal, well, its just because they didn't have his magic touch, he wasn't in charge of anything at the time.  So why can't the board just put him back in charge?

He was willing to throw Kendall to the wolves and I'm sure he could justify doing the same to Shiv no matter how much he likes, loves or appreciates her.  The same way, at the end of the day, Shiv could justify throwing Tom to the wolves if it furthers her ends.  

Logan def thinks he's safe as houses. That's probably why he was somewhat pleased Roman stayed out of it. He's already planning on serving Shiv up as a martyr. He must have been dying with laughter inside when Tom came to him with that offer.

 

1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

Going on the TV show was exciting to him only for him to make jokes, too. Once it got real, he ran away and hid.

It was unintentional on his part, but I think avoiding the show was in hindsight a good move. It wasn't going to end well for him and he can always use the excuse that he stepped away because of the FBI raid.

 

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I was a little surprised by how she was acting.  I thought she had been a relatively high level political consultant prior to this, and, even if she wasn't in the public eye, would still know how to at least give the impression of authority.  She just seemed kind of out of her depth, which she is, but more so than it seems she should be. 

Like all the Roy kids, her competency drops the closer she is to her father.

 

2 hours ago, aghst said:

One of the podcasters pointed out that Naomi being part of this posse, going around in limousines, is off brand for what we learned about her.

Certainly she would be enabling Kendall's addiction but the whole limo scene seems off.

Just because her family plays at being well bred yuppies doesn't mean she's unschooled in the sort of stuff the Roys get up to.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Diapason Untuned

[sistermagpie]

5 hours ago, aghst said:

One of the podcasters pointed out that Naomi being part of this posse, going around in limousines, is off brand for what we learned about her.

Certainly she would be enabling Kendall's addiction but the whole limo scene seems off.

I admit--I don't get it. What would be so off for her about being in a limo with Kendall and whoever he's with?

[Jordan Baker]

3 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

He is really good I can't believe this creepy corporate weasel is the same guy who was a cool badass spy on that show Spooks I used to watch on DVD.

I can't believe he's the same guy who was Mr. Darcy.

I do root for Tom, but I can't forget that restaurant scene in Season 1 with the Napkin of Shame or the scene in which Tom throws water bottles at Greg.

For those who haven't seen MM's Mr. Darcy, here's an interview that includes a couple of iconic scenes: Matthew Macfadyen discusses P&P

[aghst]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

I admit--I don't get it. What would be so off for her about being in a limo with Kendall and whoever he's with?

I guess their point was that the Pierces weren't this ostentatious family, jetting around everywhere.

They were kind of nerdy, with that one Pierce going for his second PhD.  The Roys mocked some of them openly to their faces.

Naomi didn't live on the Pierce compound, instead she lived in CA and as a recovering addict, I vaguely recall that she lived somewhat of an alternative life, kind of New Age-y.

That was in season 2, though later in that season, she was jet setting in Europe and tried to hook up with Kendall in the UK and then on that yacht until Logan chased her off, saying this humongous yacht didn't have enough provisions for an extra guest.

 

[Blakeston]

6 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I don't think they put her in that position to project authority. People associate authority with men and are just as likely to be turned off by a woman showing it. I don't think they'd be asking her to do it if they wanted that image. They want a woman who seems more connected to the victims and isn't swaggering in looking like she's trying to throw her weight around.

Did you think she seemed connected to the victims? I thought she seemed completely insincere.

Gerri could have gotten up there and come across as serious without spooking the "oh no a woman thinks she's in charge!" types, while still sounding like she takes the allegations seriously. Shiv just doesn't have the gravitas to come across that way.

[ProudMary]

21 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The music on this show is so good. Logan's sad hallway walk could have easily been a bad Charlie Brown walk imitation but the music (and the acting) made it so much better. Plus I can't believe I heard that Nirvana song on a TV show.

It's not TV. It's HBO.

(I'll show myself out...)

[Milburn Stone]

21 hours ago, Hera said:

I would love to know what insights Connor has about his dad that his siblings don't. I'm unclear on the exact ages of the Roy siblings, but Connor is at least a decade older than Kendall (and probably closer to 15 or even 20 years). I get the sense that he was born before the company really took off, so I'm betting he's seen shit that his siblings (who seem like they were all born after Logan had made it) haven't—be it the extent of Logan's ruthlessness in getting ahead, or some now-hidden vulnerability, or both. I hope we learn more about his backstory at some point.

That's interesting. Connor when he's around Logan is nothing but a buffoon, but Connor when he's only with his siblings and no one else around can actually say the odd intelligent thing.

[sistermagpie]

4 hours ago, aghst said:

I guess their point was that the Pierces weren't this ostentatious family, jetting around everywhere.

They were kind of nerdy, with that one Pierce going for his second PhD.  The Roys mocked some of them openly to their faces.

Naomi didn't live on the Pierce compound, instead she lived in CA and as a recovering addict, I vaguely recall that she lived somewhat of an alternative life, kind of New Age-y.

That was in season 2, though later in that season, she was jet setting in Europe and tried to hook up with Kendall in the UK and then on that yacht until Logan chased her off, saying this humongous yacht didn't have enough provisions for an extra guest.

 

Can't say I agree it that was their point. Whatever the rest of her family presented themselves as, she bonded with Kendall for a reason. I'm sure this isn't the first limo she's been in with a bunch of idiots. Seems like she wasn't like those nerdy members of the family.

4 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Did you think she seemed connected to the victims? I thought she seemed completely insincere.

Gerri could have gotten up there and come across as serious without spooking the "oh no a woman thinks she's in charge!" types, while still sounding like she takes the allegations seriously. Shiv just doesn't have the gravitas to come across that way.

Oh no, I didn't think she sounded connected to the victims at all--I didn't mean it in that sense, as if she emotionally connected to them. More just that she's a woman (so just being the same demo as the victims) talking about all these rapes like they're not the end of the world. She wasn't Gerri telling them that yes, this was serious, she was reassuring them it wasn't as serious as it seemed, however sincerely (not) they took the allegations.

Kendall's music wouldn't have worked as well with Gerri, probably, for just that reason. It might have seemed like it was Kendall who wasn't taking it seriously, not Gerri. So basically, I agree that Gerri would have been much better if their priority was being serious. But I don't think they were going for that and failed, but that they wanted to hit a different note. Shiv even started out with a little joke about Kendall being her brother as well as an employee at Waystar etc.

Edited November 3, 2021 by sistermagpie

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Gerri could have gotten up there and come across as serious without spooking the "oh no a woman thinks she's in charge!" types, while still sounding like she takes the allegations seriously. Shiv just doesn't have the gravitas to come across that way.

Yes, Gerri exudes authority and gravitas whereas Shiv does not.  Kendall couldn't have pulled his stunt with Gerri.  Gerri wouldn't have been flummoxed like Shiv and Kendall would have seemed disrespectful and childish. 

[Milburn Stone]

13 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I agree that Gerri would have been much better if their priority was being serious. But I don't think they were going for that and failed, but that they wanted to hit a different note.

That lines up with my take, if I understand you correctly. I didn't think Shiv was bad at all for what they set out to do. Her experience as a political consultant showed in her words, manner, and poise, until she allowed herself to get rattled by the extraordinary interruption. She sounded, in other words, like a thousand other competent corporate leaders I've heard in my lifetime. Now, you could argue that sounding like a thousand other competent corporate leaders was not what the moment called for, but on the other hand you could do a lot worse! Without Kendall's prank, she would have calmed the waters, i.e. accomplished the mission.

[sistermagpie]

20 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

That lines up with my take, if I understand you correctly. I didn't think Shiv was bad at all for what they set out to do. Her experience as a political consultant showed in her words, manner, and poise, until she allowed herself to get rattled by the extraordinary interruption. She sounded, in other words, like a thousand other competent corporate leaders I've heard in my lifetime. Now, you could argue that sounding like a thousand other competent corporate leaders was not what the moment called for, but on the other hand you could do a lot worse! Without Kendall's prank, she would have calmed the waters, i.e. accomplished the mission.

Yes, that's basically how I saw it. I think this is what's meant by "the medium is the message." Logan et al. knew that Gerri was there and how she would have come across. They didn't want that--they wanted what Shiv was giving before she was interrupted. They didn't want disappointed Mom, they wanted the Cool Girl corporate leader.

[BlackberryJam]

I think Shiv thought this was her coming out as the New Face of Waystar, younger, hipper, cognizant of social justice and more caring. But Shiv isn’t at all invested in social justice and she doesn’t care about what’s going on with the Waystar employees, so it was doomed from the start.

I do love her hair and her pants.

[aghst]

13 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

I think Shiv thought this was her coming out as the New Face of Waystar, younger, hipper, cognizant of social justice and more caring. But Shiv isn’t at all invested in social justice and she doesn’t care about what’s going on with the Waystar employees, so it was doomed from the start.

I do love her hair and her pants.

Well she talked the talk in season 1.  And even in season 2 she expressed criticisms of ATN personalities and tactics.

In season 1, they had that confrontation at Conor's compound in New Mexico.  Marcia went up to her in the kitchen, pointed out fake Bernie Sanders, whom Shiv worked for, is trying to hurt her father.

But much of season 2 was about Shiv admitting and embracing that she wanted to take over Waystar.  She didn't say much about reforming or fixing problems there, just that she wanted the top job.

At least Kendall talked about undoing the toxicity of ATN and Waystar's other media assets.  BTW, I think this is supposedly what happened with James Murdoch, he wanted to change News Corp's ways and ended up leaving over dispute with his family.

 

[TimWil]

I forgot where I read it (was it here?) that Mark Ravenhead, the ATN anchor who was busted possessing Nazi memorabilia, hosts a show called The Bunker. That’s rather clever.

[tennisgurl]

The acting on this show really is next level, not many people can make walking down a hallway so devastating. Kendall is just the definition of trying too hard, its like he was deflating as he walked down the hallway as the theme song played him off. He's this mix of massive entitlement mixed with massive insecurity, he wants so badly to be seen as both a badass corporate bro and a heroic warrior for social change, but he has no real idea how to be either of them. His laughing and cheering at mean tweets and comedians laughing at him, his immature play with Shiv at their townhall, its like he's playing a part of the confident CEO to cover how terrified he is. 

Shiv's letter wasn't wrong, but throwing that out was still ridiculously harsh, so harsh that even Connor and Roman wanted no part of it, not even Roman who is usually quick to hit below the belt. Sure its not like this is a secret to anyone who really knows the Roy's, but publishing it all, and under the veneer of "I'm so concerned about my brother" when its clearly more of a massive fuck you, is still a brutal move. That's Shiv for you though, she tries to play at being the "nice one" among the Roy's, but its mostly just a show to hide that she is just as ruthless and insecure as any of the Roy's. 

Ouch, Roman could not think of literally one happy memory about Logan, the fishing trip memory was actually with Connor. That really hurts, no wonder the Roy siblings are such a mess, they never had much of a chance, but at least Roman did have a nice memory from his childhood, just with his brother and not his dad. It also makes me think more about the Roy's childhood, Connor is much older then them, he would have been a teenager or a young adult when they were all kids, especially Roman, it makes me wonder if he was more of quasi parent to them before he started doing his own weird thing. Its also interesting seeing more of Connor with just his siblings, he's just as odd as ever but he comes across as a lot more warm and insightful then he does around Logan. It would be amazing if Connor is actually playing the long con on his dad to make him underestimate him and take over, or if we find out that he is actually one of the more intelligent or moral members of the family, just that Logan brings out his weirder side, like how the other kids all become twitchy wrecks around Logan. I would also like hearing more about his mom, I think I remember that she was institutionalized? Especially now that Logan's dirty laundry is all coming out. 

Poor Tom. 

Logan really is living in his own world, he actually think he can just tell the FBI to fuck off and they will, even as even the president is distancing from him. That massive line of agents swarming the office was a major money shot, shit has truly gotten real. 

[txhorns79]

50 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

 

Logan really is living in his own world, he actually think he can just tell the FBI to fuck off and they will, even as even the president is distancing from him. That massive line of agents swarming the office was a major money shot, shit has truly gotten real. 

I did appreciate Gerri being like: These are the ones who don't F--- off.  I really do think she is the best.  

[Milburn Stone]

23 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

But Shiv isn’t at all invested in social justice and she doesn’t care about what’s going on with the Waystar employees, so it was doomed from the start.

I agree with the first part, but not the second. She totally doesn't care about social justice or anybody at Waystar outside herself. But history is replete with effective bullshit artists!

[RealReality]

On 11/3/2021 at 9:34 AM, BlackberryJam said:

I think Shiv thought this was her coming out as the New Face of Waystar, younger, hipper, cognizant of social justice and more caring. But Shiv isn’t at all invested in social justice and she doesn’t care about what’s going on with the Waystar employees, so it was doomed from the start.

I do love her hair and her pants.

and this is what irks me about Shiv.  

Kendall is a douche bro asshole, but thats the image he projects.  The rapping at Logan's party....whatever that picture was of him with his thumbs up.  yikes, yikes and yikes.  But he seemed  to be the only one who really cared that anything happened to anyone at cruises.*  So, if anything he has an asshole facade that may have been hiding some semblance of a conscience.   When Kendall told Shiv that he is who she thinks she is, I thought that rang true.  

Roman is, who he is, which is also an immature asshole.  

Shiv on the other hand, projects the image you're talking about, but at the end of the day, she could care less and so its inauthentic.  I think that had the press conference moved forward, she would have said the right words and hit her marks, but it wouldn't have been believable to anyone other than people who really wanted to believe what she was saying.  But I don't think the glow would have lasted very long, because who she actually is would have come out eventually.  

* - my season interval memory is awful, so its entirely possible I forgot what Kendall has done that showed he 100% didn't give a shit.  

[aghst]

Was listening to a podcast, that Kendall is the type who'd at least try to make small talk with the help, whereas the other Roy kids wouldn't.  They would at best pretend not to notice them or be openly dismissive.

In fact, maybe only Kendall tries to relate to Greg while the others are cordial at most.  Though Kendall may have screwed up by not buying the watch for Greg, could come back to regret not locking up Greg for Team Kendall.

But if you want the perfect distillation of what the show is about in under 2 minutes:
 

 

 

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

and this is what irks me about Shiv.  

Kendall is a douche bro asshole, but thats the image he projects.  The rapping at Logan's party....whatever that picture was of him with his thumbs up.  yikes, yikes and yikes.  But he seemed  to be the only one who really cared that anything happened to anyone at cruises.*  So, if anything he has an asshole facade that may have been hiding some semblance of a conscience.   When Kendall told Shiv that he is who she thinks she is, I thought that rang true.  

Roman is, who he is, which is also an immature asshole.  

Shiv on the other hand, projects the image you're talking about, but at the end of the day, she could care less and so its inauthentic.  I think that had the press conference moved forward, she would have said the right words and hit her marks, but it wouldn't have been believable to anyone other than people who really wanted to believe what she was saying.  But I don't think the glow would have lasted very long, because who she actually is would have come out eventually.  

* - my season interval memory is awful, so its entirely possible I forgot what Kendall has done that showed he 100% didn't give a shit.  

 

1 hour ago, aghst said:

Was listening to a podcast, that Kendall is the type who'd at least try to make small talk with the help, whereas the other Roy kids wouldn't.  They would at best pretend not to notice them or be openly dismissive.

In fact, maybe only Kendall tries to relate to Greg while the others are cordial at most.  Though Kendall may have screwed up by not buying the watch for Greg, could come back to regret not locking up Greg for Team Kendall.

 

I don't know that I really agree with this about Kendall. He was happy enough to testify in front of congress about the cruises, wasn't he? He flipped when Logan wanted him, personally, to take the fall. Sure he seems to have signs of conscience sometimes, but they don't hold up to any more pressure than Shiv's, that I can see. Really, the very fact that he's telling her that he's embodied the better person she claimed to be is just as out of touch as she ever was since he *didn't* go public with this stuff to get justice for anyone but himself.

Likewise about him having any particularly better instincts about the help or Greg. Has Kendall had moments where he seemed to treat the help any differently than anyone else--that is, when he wasn't using one for something in the moment? He's used Greg pretty nastily himself---and even here screwed him over once his mood changed, it seems. Roman hasn't ever been particularly nice to Greg either, but he did, iirc, refuse to give him a bump of coke, not wanting a repeat of what happened to Kendall when Roman introduced him to drug. That's about the same level of conscience. 

[TimWil]

Just listened to a podcast and someone brought it up that Mondale (Tom and Shiv’s dog) is no doubt named after Walter Mondale. OK, that’s not really a surprise. However I wasn’t aware that the former vice president/presidential candidate actually hailed from Tom’s home state of Minnesota and it’s quite likely that Tom’s lawyer mother ran in the same circles as him.

Edited November 6, 2021 by TimWil

[CouchTater]

Was it clear to anyone why Tom gave Greg the crappy interior office?  I thought he was just joking but then in the following episode it's confirmed to be his new office.  With Greg being kind of a loose cannon at this point, why would anyone intentionally alienate him (Tom with the office, Kendall with the watch)?

[Macbeth]

I am just waiting for the crash with Kendall.  It looked like it was going to begin at the end of the episode with Shiv's letter, but the FBI raid brought him back off the ledge. 

To say that Kendall has been coked-up to the gills for  the last couple of episodes is just stating the facts.  Which is why Roman wasn't going to join him to bring down Logan on Kendall's latest attempt.  Not that Roman is at all capable of confronting Logan.  But he did initially join in Kendall's first attempt as he was being rational and had been sober for a significant period of time.  But then there was no way Roman would have voted to have Logan removed with Logan in the room.  Roman was there to see if Kendall was fueled by coke or rational thought.  Since it's coke he was not joining.

That's why Roman was so good at pointing out how unreasonable it was to make a deal with the foreign investors when it was clear the guy was on coke.  I don't believe that guy had been on coke by the way.  The fact that Logan was willing to make a deal with investors who had kidnapped his own child was completely insane and brutal.  That has to have been the biggest "I really don't give an F about my children" Logan moment for me.  The foreign investors were completely unreliable and homicidal.  You don't make deals with people like that.  But then Logan is someone like that.

Roman had to say the guy had been coked up so that Logan would see it as a Kendall problem.  And Logan really doesn't want to deal with people on drugs.  

So I am just waitng for Kendall's crash now. 

And Shiv's letter- we really see who Logan's true heir is.  She may not get it in the end.  But she is a ruthless killer.  Who like Logan doesn't understand the workings of her own family.  As people have pointed out Roman and Kendall have each other's back to some extent.  When it comes to the top prize they are not going to support each other as both want the prize.  But they will watch each other's back for the pot shots others may take.  The fact Roman was doubled over, protecting his genitals, when Shiv was asking him to sign the letter was Roman's way of saying "I sign this I might has well shoot my own d*** off."

[The Solution]

On 11/2/2021 at 12:29 AM, nilyank said:

She kept flipping her hair as she was giving her speech. Not granted her hair is lovely, but it shouldn't have been the main thing that I remember from her speech.

As much as I love this show, Shiv and all the women on it who have that stupid angular hair that needs to be flipped every 3 seconds make me want to shave them bald. (Childhood issues for me...)

Roam cracked me up in the kid's room when he imitated her flipping her hair.