S03.E01: Secession

[aghst]

8 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

Can you cite an example of Kendall having a conscience?

Well something was bothering him most of season 2 after the Chappaquiddick.  Kendall was crushed when he and Logan went to visit the parents of the guy and later came and dropped a load of cash.  He couldn't openly apologize or express contrition.

He may not have the biggest conscience but he has a conscience.

You wonder where he would have gotten conscience but Logan probably wasn't too hands on with raising the children.

But their mother doesn't seem like the warm and emotionally-supportive type either.

Jeremy Strong also has said that he believe Kendall flipped on Logan when he dismissed the guy who died as NRPI.  Kendall doesn't have the same sense of ethics, especially when it comes to poorer people, as his father.

[sugarbaker design]

12 minutes ago, aghst said:

Kendall was crushed when he and Logan went to visit the parents of the guy and later came and dropped a load of cash.  He couldn't openly apologize or express contrition.

Not that crushed that he couldn't at least admit he was there.

12 minutes ago, aghst said:

He may not have the biggest conscience but he has a conscience.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

13 minutes ago, aghst said:

You wonder where he would have gotten conscience but Logan probably wasn't too hands on with raising the children.

But their mother doesn't seem like the warm and emotionally-supportive type either.

I'm not going to blame the actions of a thirty-something spoiled brat on mommy and daddy.

13 minutes ago, aghst said:

Kendall doesn't have the same sense of ethics, especially when it comes to poorer people, as his father.

Kendall also thinks he's a champion of women, yet when he asks two women for their sales pitch, he doesn't let them get a word in edgewise.  Like I said in my original post, Kendall is not very self-aware.  He possesses all these awful qualities, does all these awful things, but because his father is essentially Satan incarnate, he's doesn't think too badly of himself.  

[Blakeston]

Kendall is awful, but a psychopath like Logan wouldn't have experienced guilt and shame about the car crash like Kendall did.

Kendall also seems to care more about his son with special needs than Logan has ever cared about any of his children.

[aghst]

11 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Kendall is awful, but a psychopath like Logan wouldn't have experienced guilt and shame about the car crash like Kendall did.

Kendall also seems to care more about his son with special needs than Logan has ever cared about any of his children.

That reminds me, first season at a family get-together, Logan got mad at Kendall's kid, yelled at him or slapped him.

But the cast was on Colbert and Bryan Cox said that Jesse Armstrong told him that Logan loves his kids.

So he was apologetic when he slapped Roman and he did try to do therapy in the Austerlitz episode, though it was mostly photo ops for PR.

 

[Penman61]

6 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I am not sure I care who comes out on top at the end, but I am really curious about what the company looks like in the end. Because I am not sure how this scandal settles out without the company tanking hard. 

If recent current events are a model, this is absolutely--and unfortunately--not true.

The Chairman/CEO and the marquee anchor for the Obvious Real-Life Network Model both resigned in humiliation over massive sex-related scandals in the past decade. These scandals affected the nearly two-decade dominance of this network...not at all.

I'm sure our fictional counterpart show will be full of drama and high stakes intrigue and utter stupidity and cravenness, and I'm sure the writers will use the threat of financial catastrophe to up the tension, but...real life is much, much more depressing, I'm afraid.

OMG, there it is: I'm now officially watching Succession as fantasy wish fulfillment TV...

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, Penman61 said:

The Chairman/CEO and the marquee anchor for the Obvious Real-Life Network Model both resigned in humiliation over massive sex-related scandals in the past decade. These scandals affected the nearly two-decade dominance of this network...not at all.

I would imagine that the Waystar scandal would perceived by the general public as a lot worse.  Mostly because it happened on a cruise ships, some of the victims were the general public (if I recall correctly) and even people getting killed was covered up. And it went all the way to the very top of the company. The Fox news scandal was between the bosses and their employees. So while that was terrible I can see some people thinking it wasn't that bad or letting it go for other reasons. Plus people would be a lot less likely to go on a cruise (or to an amusement park) if there was a chance they, or their loved ones, might be killed and the company would cover it up. A lot of people probably would still watch Fox news even after finding out that the CEO harassed employees. 

[Bluesky]

9 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

Can you cite an example of Kendall having a conscience?

He went back and secretly gave money to the dead caterer’s family.  He didn’t take that lightly and his father used it against Kendall to emotionally abuse him further.  
How much can a grown man take from such a vicious father and indifferent mother. The last straw being his father asking Kendall to sacrifice his life as he knows it by taking blame for crimes he wasn’t involved in.   Logan is a monster.   

[laurakaye]

17 hours ago, Avabelle said:

I never thought she wouldn’t get it. I thought Logan was just messing with Shiv/Roman by entertaining they had a shot. Choosing one of them would be insane. Not only are they not capable but the optics wouldn’t be good and they’d be potentially liable if the company goes down. Geri while like family still isn’t family. She’s capable but he can also throw her under the bus if needs be. I think he’s too savvy to have genuinely considered Shiv or Roman.

What I find fascinating is that in the aftermath of Kendall throwing Logan under the bus, the scrambling to find a country that won't extradite, a gaggle of staff and PR people hovering around him wondering what he'll do next - Logan still has the wherewithal to play a fun cat and mouse game with his kids by batting them around and hinting that he might choose them as his successor....but nope, sorry.  It was a twisted mind game in the midst of chaos and I loved it.

[Kel Varnsen]

Also nothing says I am not guilty like hiding out in a non-extradition country. 

One thing I thought was really funny was how everyone bullshits everyone else. Like how when they tried to call the president it basically went terrible, with the aide basically saying the president wants nothing to do with the Roys. But as soon as they hung up everyone agreed with Logan that it was a good call and they have the support of the president.

[buttersister]

Quote

I assume that the wine was good enough for Naomi but not so great that she would think someone was saving it for something special.

She wouldn't care. Might even taste better if she thought that were the case.

[hatchetgirl]

6 hours ago, laurakaye said:

What I find fascinating is that in the aftermath of Kendall throwing Logan under the bus, the scrambling to find a country that won't extradite, a gaggle of staff and PR people hovering around him wondering what he'll do next - Logan still has the wherewithal to play a fun cat and mouse game with his kids by batting them around and hinting that he might choose them as his successor....but nope, sorry.  It was a twisted mind game in the midst of chaos and I loved it.

Indeed.  Dang, he is an awful awful man!  I said to my husband, the kids needs to band together and toast Logan like they did Rhea last season about Logan's sister.  I'm sure they know there is a c**** in his armour and could capitalize on it.  It would be soooooo delicious!

Naomi - I didn't hate her last season, but dang, one episode in and I don't like her one bit!  I'm bummed Rava went after Greg rather than Naomi.  Naomi's self satisfied devil may care attitude about that wine was bollocks!

[northboundtrain]

It's great to be back...what a wonderful premiere!

* So, I was looking back on what I think was my last post on this board following the S2 finale, and it was about Brian Cox's interview where he indicated that Kendall turning on Logan was some kind of plan on Logan's part. Well, I was really put off by that idea, as it didn't seem like a good dramatic direction for the show (just more of Logan being a puppet-master, which we had already seen far too much of by that point). Of course, that was two years ago (!!) and it's been debunked, so, whew. Very happy about that.

* It seems obvious to me that Kendall is having an episode and not totally in his right mind, and I think that "Who says I haven't killed anybody?" line was meant to underscore that fact. When he's brought down, it'll be his own doing.

Though re: Kendall telling Frank and Rava that he did this for them, I've got a more charitable read on that than some commentators...I believe Kendall believes it and isn't just trying to manipulate them, even though they aren't, obviously, the only reason -- nor do I think Frank or Rava would believe that they're the only reason. Frank and Kendall have been loyal to each other since S1, and Kendall sees the move he is making here as something that will benefit Frank, too. And I'm sure I'm not the only one operating under the assumption that Kendall's still in love with Rava and would be with her if she'd let him. And he loves his kids. So, yeah, I do think they were on his mind when he made the most important call of his professional life and that some part of him did this "for them" just as much as I believe he was also doing it for himself and all that he'll get out of it.

* There were so many little touches this episode underscoring the connection between father and Number 1 Boy -- "Action Stations," the fact that both of them handed off their phones to their assistants, and even trading Jack and the Beanstalk references.

* I'm in the camp that believes Roman threw the job to Gerri on purpose. Roman's never seemed really interested in running things solo -- even back in S1, he was trying to team up with Kendall. He wants a partnership with someone more experienced (as long as it's not Frank), and since last season he's been on a mission to get his "Rockstar and Mole Woman" plan off the ground. Well, now he's done it...which makes Roman the only member of Team Logan who's actually getting exactly what he wants right now. Did anyone else catch Roman trying and failing to hide a smile as he watched Gerri plotting at the airport? And then the way the camera lingered on him staring at Gerri when Shiv took the call from Logan on the plane. And then the way he looked back at her as they were exiting the plane. He's gone, gone, gone.

* So on that front, what I'm wondering is how long it's going to take others to pick up on it and what the fallout from that might be. Logan actually might already be aware (I'm thinking here of how he mocked Roman last season for wanting to screw his mother, and Roman's phone call in the premiere would only have confirmed those suspicions, if Logan has them) -- Shiv finding out could be disastrous for Roman and/or Gerri, too.

* Speaking of Shiv, I do believe Shiv is going to see Kendall. I don't believe she's actually going to side with him, though, because I've seen no indication that Shiv really thinks Kendall will succeed or that she's got any kind of guilt from her role in witness-tampering or in going along with Logan's plan to sacrifice Kendall instead of Tom. Plus, when Kendall called Frank and pitched him, Frank stayed on the line; when Kendall called Shiv, Shiv hung up on him.

Shiv's had a setback, but I doubt she thinks she's out for good. The easiest way for her to prove to her father that she's capable is going after Kendall herself. So I'm expecting her to cozy up to Kendall now in the name of getting something she can take back to Logan.

* I already love Lisa Arthur, and that shot of her sitting in her office as Shiv descends the staircase is one of my favorite shots of the episode (along with Logan watching the plane taking off from the hotel window).

* Was anyone else surprised that Kendall called Shiv and not Roman? I've been mulling that over. Kendall/Roman has been my favorite of the Roy dynamics since S1, and Roman was obviously distressed when Logan announced Kendall as the blood sacrifice -- and Kendall even noticed and sent Roman a reassuring look across the table. I really can't wait for their first interaction.

* With every episode, I find it increasingly hard to believe that Greg was once my least favorite character. I couldn't stand him in the earlier episodes. But Nicholas Braun is magic. I can't decide on my favorite moment this episode -- it's a tie between his pleading with Kendall through the bathroom door and his obviously-rehearsed response to Katarina when she asked him if he knew what Kendall would do.

* One of the things I love most about this show are when characters refer to their pre-S1 history. We got a bunch of that during Frank and Karl's conversation on the plane, reminding us how far back they go and teasing again at Sally Anne, and then there was that nice moment between Kendall and Rava about Mount Athos and their past conversations about Kendall making a clean break.

* I read over this post and realized the only one I'm not getting a good read on right now is Tom. I don't read much into the fact that he didn't return Shiv's "I love you" because he blew her a kiss and seemed his usual self with her on the phone, so I just don't get an "everything's changed" sense from him. I'm guessing he's also secretly mulling over Greg's part in all this, too. Anyway, having him isolated in Sarajevo with Logan, Frank, and Karl is a change of pace for the character, so I'm curious to see what he gets up to next episode.

[BlackberryJam]

I loved Roman and Gerri in the hotel bedroom. KC and JSC really have great chemistry and I think they love playing those scenes. 

With each character, there is the surface, then a layer under than and then like five additional layers under that. Every action/sentence has multiple meanings. I'm torn between each of them knowing exactly what they are doing and each of them just fumbling along, making it up as they go.

I've missed this show so much. 

[meowmommy]

IMDb's cast list for Episode 2 includes Hiam Abbass/Marcia.  So hopefully her absence was just a one-off.

Shiv reminds me of Michael Corleone, who made a virtue of staying away from and far above the family business until he was impacted personally, and then of course he was all-in, right down to the mass murders.

[DrSpaceman73]

So Logan was never going to give the job the anyone, kids or otherwise. I know he named geri but she is just a figurehead. He won't give up real control. 

Kendall figured that out finally when his dad told him he doesn't have the killer instinct. It finally clicked this job was not going be given to anyone, they have to take it from there dad. So now he is trying to do just that 

[Dobian]

I love how Kendall can go from being a man like in that Senate hearing and when he did the press conference, to being a complete doofus with those PR people.  He's definitely a guy who can have great and lucid moments, but you would  never want running things day to day.