S03.E04: Walk on the Ocean

[jewel21]

Quote

Isobel and Maria take a trip together to look for answers. Kyle receives a message from his past. Michael makes a disturbing discovery.

Airdate: 08/16/2021

[backhometome]

I found this ep. pretty boring minus the last 5 mins. 

I find Liz so boring in LA. 

Rosa/Wyatt plot is not only dull but pointless. Feels like they are on a different show.

Isobel/Maria were amusing but it felt like waste of time till the end.

Kyle and Michael were fun. 

Not Kyle :(

[shapeshifter]

4 minutes ago, backhometome said:

Not Kyle :(

I’m assuming from Liz’s glowing handprint that Max brings Kyle back to life.  
🤞

[Katesgr811]

1) Liz in the trippy vision was great. Loved her more there than I have all season.

2) I hope Wyatt goes away for good.

3) Love Jones.

4) The ending? I was not ready to be shocked. 

[shapeshifter]

3 minutes ago, Katesgr811 said:

1) Liz in the trippy vision was great. Loved her more there than I have all season.

Agreed. Maybe Liz needs to grow bangs?

[KittenPokerCheater]

Nooooooooooooooooooo!

Not Kyle!

Legit, if he dies I'm out.

(Is this where Jones maybe redeems himself?  I'll never trust him, I'm sure he's a villain), 

I like Rosa/Wyatt.  Non Racist Wyatt makes both him and Rosa so appealing. 

I was happy not to see Alex this week.  I wish they would write the talented actor off the show so he can do something else..

Michael was good, the trip down the hallucinatory rabbit hole was fun. It's nice to see "Liz" be less angsty. 

The Liz plot line  was dull AF.  Until the glowy handprint.

[Katesgr811]

1 minute ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Nooooooooooooooooooo!

Not Kyle!

Legit, if he dies I'm out.

 

The good thing is they would never cover up a murder for a racist POS that killed Kyle. So we still don’t know who it really is. But damn that wound is wicked.

[UnoAgain]

Solid epi... I just ffwd thru all of liz L.A Scenes... Finally more isobel/Maria time ..

Glad they addressed that it's weird how little isobel has tried to connect.. Or vice versa since they found out they were related... I still say a show about the mixed-race/ mixed-species daughter who grows up in the 50's and 60s would be interesting... I dunno how I feel about Wyatt and rosa.. So I guess I'm glad he's going.. Unless he doesn't.. On one hand ppl changing is good... On the other he didn't change as much as something crazy happened to him... Seeing him wrestle with what he used to be is cool... Seeing rosa see something in him is aspirational... But seeing yet another WOC getting all googly eyed over another white guy is.. Not trying to be inflammatory.. But tiring.. Might as well be watching the rookie... So happy it seems like they took that off the table.. More Jones.. And more flashbacks please

[Lady Calypso]

I can't imagine Kyle dying, not this early, and there's way too much going on with Kyle now to let him go. Unless Michael Trevino is leaving the show (which I guess I couldn't blame him for, not after last season of him not doing anything), I have to imagine Max saves Kyle and there's some sort of faked death scenario OR another Valenti is dead. Or Maria is getting her visions mixed up. Maybe it was more of a sign to go save Kyle, as, if it wasn't for Maria, they would have never found Kyle in the first place and he definitely would have been dead. 

Liz in LA is boring and pointless. She might as well be on a completely different show. So maybe this whole glowing hand thing and Liz being affected will bring her back to Roswell for good. Whatever works, as long as we don't have to have Liz elsewhere for the rest of the season.

Vision Quest Liz was SO MUCH FUN. I would actually dig a version of Vision Quest Liz with the real Liz, bangs and all.

Still don't give a shit about Wyatt/Rosa but it looks like he's disappearing, at least for a few episodes, leaving Rosa to not have to deal with a racist...err, former racist, I guess. I get that they're supposed to be cute and all and we're supposed to accept that memory wiped Wyatt is a good guy...but it still makes me squirm.

Michael, when not around Alex or not just drinking and bitching all episode, is actually quite good when he's useful, hanging around Kyle, or helping out his siblings. This was a perfect use of Michael, show. Do this more. 

I'm not gonna worry about Kyle until we get an exit interview from Michael Trevino. I refuse to allow myself to believe for a second that Kyle is gone, even through next episode. 

[AnimeMania]

Two ladies lying on a blanket all day in the hot Desert sun. I am guessing they are OK since they managed to call Max.

Pole Position.

[RachelKM]

Holy shit!  What the actual fuck, show?  I don't believe Kyle is going anywhere because it wrapped up too neatly too quickly.  I agree that either his death is faked or it will turn out that Maria's visions are preventable.  But FUCK that stick puncturing through Kyle's gut was gnarly and I am not cool with even hinting at Kyle's death. Or hurting Kyle.  Just don't fucking do this anymore, show.

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I’m assuming from Liz’s glowing handprint that Max brings Kyle back to life.  

I don't think Max is strong enough to bring him back to life.  But he might be able to heal him enough to survive. 

Actually, come to think of it, if Kyle is on the brink of death (and certainly would have died if Maria and Iz hadn't sent Max out) but lives, it is possible that the "murder" they're covering is Kyle's in that Wendall is a murderer but for the fact that Max managed to keep him alive long enough to get him through it. Heck, maybe they even have Jones prove himself by finishing the healing of Kyle.

However, that doesn't explain the Valenti crest on the coffin if the vision was from a future in which Kyle survived.... Okay, I've type-babled myself into a circle and have no idea what I think other than IF KYLE DIES I WILL FUCKING RIOT!!!

I enjoyed the vision quest from fun Liz to finally getting some needed movement on the fact that Iz and Maria are family, something they are both limited in.  I also appreciated Maria getting to voice how isolated she feels being not entirely human but "not enough" alien. She literally almost died last year because she was alien enough to react to a bio weapon intended to kill them, not to mention she did it in order to save them, and the Pod Squad was still leaving her out of their ET Club. 

Look, show.  I'm not here for racists Wyatt's redemption through the Rosa's propping and having her talk about how he used to not suck. So please let his soul-journey walkabout be a thing he does... for, like, ever.  The guy playing him is a solid actor.  But I'm sure you have another YA show you planned to fill with your same stable of actors.  Throw him in the bullpen for the next show. 

Michael is SO MUCH better when he's with anyone other than Alex and/or talking about something not his "I'm the worst" wobbie schtick. And, heck yeah to Michael acknowledging that he might be having difficulty crediting the possibility that Jones might not be all bad because he doesn't like the version of his mom Jones described.  That's actually some solid self-awareness which, let's be honest, is truly rare from Michael... or most of the characters on this show, really, but especially Michael.

Not going to pretend I care about Lab-dude's story, or life, or what happens to him when Liz heads back to Roswell.* BUt I feel kinda bad for him that his house, or at least his electrical wiring just sort of blew up while his (soon to be ex) lab partner/ (probably soon to be ex) girlfriend collapsed on to his living room floor. It's gonna be really hard to explain that claim to his homeowners insurance. 

*Please show, don't have him follow her. We already sort of did that with Diego.  Liz is beautiful and apparently brilliant.  But you'll never convince me that every man she gets involved with can't get over her.

[tvwatchergordis]

Strong episode. This season is being really good so far. Better than S2 for me.  Well, Jones isn't the typical villain after all he does seem to generally care about Max. He's even willing to heal him when I think he wanted him dead 😲 color me shocked. He's attitude with Lucky(the dog) also makes me think he's not all bad. Louise and Nora are proving to not be as pure and as good as we previously thought. They freaking wanted to use a clone child as a weapon, who does that? Unlike Jones they didn't seem to care about Max beyond him being a weapon at all.

Something tells me that Jones is not a trustworthy narrator, he is hiding something but I don't think he can fake his genuine feelings for Max. Guess time will tell on that one. 

Liz finally learns from her mistakes! 👏 quitting was the best thing she could do. She's finally growing up from where she left off last season. Enjoyed watching her let her hair down this episode while she dealt with her conflicting emotions. That red dress though? 👌. Guess she's headed back to Roswell.

Ha! I knew it wasn't Michael in the coffin. Last episode pretty much confirmed it 100% by Alex's dialogue. But, seeing him sitting in the Church was still confirmation 😃. So it's not Jones either seemingly.

Kyle!!!!!!!!!! 😢💔. Nah I knew his father's ominous message thru the radio was bad. It can't be him who's dead certainty looks that way but like with Michael: Alex is an indicator that it may not be Kyle after all. I just don't think he'd be that cold either if it was Kyle's funeral. Unless he wants his killer brought to justice an he's angry because the pod squad still hasn't done anything to catch him or they can't. I'll say this though: Liz, Max and Rosa do make it seem like its Kyle :( as well as the Valenti name on the coffin(+ how does one survive being rammed like that?) but maybe it's a fakeout? I really hope so.

Speaking of Rosa her and Wyatt's story? Just no! I'm glad he's leaving.  Enjoyed Isobel and Maria's scenes. Glad they are getting more to do together. 

 

[Whodunnit]

So I'm pretty sure Kyle's death is a fake out, especially since the racists 

Spoiler

don't like the former Sheriff Valenti's views... enough to kill her perhaps?

Obviously, that would only happen if certain people got tangled up in some new alien stuff though, since they're covering it up.

Yay for familial acknowledgement! Maria is your grandniece Izzy, act like it.

[Whodunnit]

4 minutes ago, tvwatchergordis said:

Alex is an indicator that it may not be Kyle after all.

I agree, Alex is a softie and they've gotten close again.

[tvwatchergordis]

11 minutes ago, Whodunnit said:

I agree, Alex is a softie and they've gotten close again.

Yeah. He wouldn't be as crazy: "I'll burn down the entire world for you." Alex but he'd care more. Kyle is one of his best friends he'd be sadder. Sorta like Rosa and Liz. There's something more to this. Unless Trevino wanted an out which if he did, we'll find out soon. 

[Cristofle]

Can we keep the dog?!

In all seriousness, I think Jones electing to heal Lucky when no one was watching was a decent way to show that whatever he is, he's not a complete psychopath. I do wish the show would stick to a path with him, though. Max seemed terrified of him in the last episode, but now they're all back to "He might be family." I still imagine he's hiding plenty, but if he's not all bad, they should probably stick to that path. Also, explain why he burned who knows how many people alive with extremely little provocation.

I don't know WHAT Michael thought Max, who can barely stand, was going to do with a crowbar against Jones. LOL. But it was nice to see Max and Michael on the same side.

More alien flashbacks, please! (withjasonbehr) I enjoyed seeing Louise be badass, and it's always good to see Gaius. I wonder what she meant by "We're trying to fix him" (re: Max).

I agree with everyone who said Liz the Acid Trip Guide was a lot of fun (much moreso than her actual LA plot) and Jeanine looked really cute. My only thought about this episode's LA plot, other than "Why are we doing this" was that Heath seemed weirdly overinvested in her staying and also in getting his hands on her research. I'm suspecting he is not on the up and up. But unless they make him more interesting fast, I don't really care. Just get her back to Roswell for good. I hope the handprint and her collapsing is enough to do it.

I felt bad for Maria when she said she was neither human enough nor alien enough :( I hope that this IS a starting point to including her more in alien plots. 

Still not here for Wyatt.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooo, Kyle!!!! I was somewhat struck that his father warned him that helping the "vulnerable, persecuted others" would get him killed, and in a sense, it did - just not the aliens. I'm assuming Max heals him enough to survive the immediate blow but has done severe damage to himself in the process (hence Liz collapsing from the handprint Max seemingly unintentionally gave her). Can Jones just heal him, already? And Kyle, for a bonus round? I'm sick of his deathly illness plot. Let's have the aliens do more cool alien things! 

Interesting thought that the funeral could be Kyle's mother's. Max would be very upset by that (although Rosa being comforted by Helena is sketchy, but to be honest, it was anyway). I agree that Alex is not sufficiently upset for the funeral to be Kyle's. But maybe I'm just hoping so. DON'T LEAVE US KYLE YOU'RE THE ONLY GROWN-UP IN THE ROOM.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Cristofle

[shapeshifter]

I hate this, but it seems likely that Max tries to resurrect Kyle and just kills himself in the vain attempt.   
If so, we did not need the gratuitously violent icky death to care about Kyle.

Then Jones takes on Max’s identity because he’s beyond healing.  Or is he really?   
Michael, who still doubts Jones, puts real Max’s body back into a pod.

Jones replacing Max I could live with.

But Jones healing the dog seemed kind of robotic, sort of like Spock from Star Trek, without any emotion.  
If I am interpreting all of this correctly, wanna bet some Liz-Max connection will be the key to wooden Jones becoming a real boy a la Pinocchio?

And likely Heath admitting he flunked out of Johns Hopkins is probably a clue that the skin care products Company is paying him to keep Liz on their team, but now he wuvs her, so: luv triangle with Max/Jones.

Or not.

 

[Cristofle]

10 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

so: luv triangle with Max/Jones.

I have a hard time picturing this, because Liz just does not care enough about Heath? She straight up would have forgotten he existed if Max had taken her back with open arms last week. And while she seemed to have a decent time dancing, she does not look at this guy like she has a big thing for him. That's why I lean towards Heath's main point being something else. Liz is not nearly attached enough to him for him to be a viable option for her, especially if Max is. 

[jqdeco]

Definitely something fishy about Heath. He seems way to invested in Liz and her staying in California. 

I refuse to believe the show would kill off Kyle. I think Max will save Kyle, but doing so will kill him. The question is will Jones save Max or will they do the typical soap opera story of Jones pretending to be Max and falling in love with Liz? I really hope the writers have something better planned. 

I don't mind the Rosa/Wyatt relationship except it would have been better if Wyatt had been redeemed through some epiphany or several small events that made him change his ways instead of wiping out his memory and forgetting he's a racist.    

[Cristofle]

I can't decide whether Max dying in the midst of saving someone and then body jumping into someone else is such a rip-off of the OG show that they wouldn't go that far, or that they would DEFINITLEY go that far and that's their plan. LOL. I personally hope Jones just heals him. This has gone on way too long. 

[peachmangosteen]

12 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Not Kyle!

Legit, if he dies I'm out.

Literally me lol.

Quote

I like Rosa/Wyatt.  Non Racist Wyatt makes both him and Rosa so appealing. 

Same. I mean, sure, I wish they would have went about redeeming Wyatt in a better way but honestly I don't give a shit because him and Rosa have amazing chem.

[Cristofle]

I probably need to go back over last season's flashbacks, but I thought the picture of Nora in the newspaper was taken shortly before she was captured? Like, within a day or so? Does this mean Jones is NOT the man threatening her, if Louise and Roy trapped him at some point earlier? I'm not sure anyone directly said he was, just assumed. 

I have to say - it's entirely possible something shifts in this storyline, but as it stands now? I'm kinda Team Jones in this conflict :/ They created a child clone and then held him prisoner, to the point where memories of it would haunt his nightmares for decades. I'm not mad at Jones for trying to put an end to that particular task.

Also, this most certainly would be the first indication we've had that Liz's handprint connection to Max can actually impact electricity on HER end, not just his. (*cough*ripoffofOG*cough*)

Again. Protect Lucky.

x

Edited August 17, 2021 by Cristofle

[peachmangosteen]

That reminds me, what did they do with Lucky when they put Jones back in the cage? Is he just in the cage with Jones?

[UnoAgain]

I want more lucky... And more yoga guy from last year... 

[Cristofle]

9 minutes ago, UnoAgain said:

I want more lucky... And more yoga guy from last year... 

Bert was this episode briefly! Sitting next to Michael at the funeral. I'm glad he has a little more of a role this season.

Lucky was last seen at Max's house IIRC. Someone remember to feed him if Max's heart stops. LOL.

I can't get over that Alex's behavior at the funeral is still all wrong and like...no one seems to notice that. LOL. He would NEVER be so blase about Michael, but I don't think he'd act that way about Kyle either! (and Lord knows he wouldn't protect Jordan) Alex the next time he joins the group to talk about this:

[RachelKM]

4 hours ago, Cristofle said:

Again. Protect Lucky.

OMG, yes.  After Kyle, Lucky is one of the only residents of Roswell whose safety I am wholly invested in.  I already preferred Jones to Max as far as being an interesting character.  And then he healed* and apparently adopted a dog.  Not just a dog, a bully breed.  It will take a lot for me to side against Jones after that. 

I didn't know this show needed Lucky.  But now that he is here, I need him to stay.

 

*I'm aware that Jones injured Lucky in the first place.  But it was legit an accident.

 

 

[Lady Calypso]

Also, I LOL'd at Max being on the phone at the end with Maria and telling HER to call 9-1-1 when he found a dying Kyle. Like, Max, maybe hang up the phone and call 9-1-1 yourself to explain the situation!

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, RachelKM said:

and apparently adopted a dog

Was this Lucky's first appearance? Do we know anything about his origins? 

 

2 hours ago, RachelKM said:

*I'm aware that Jones injured Lucky in the first place.  But it was legit an accident.

I would disagree with that IRL, and on the show, I didn't see it as accidental either. People shouldn't be shooting guns outdoors without specific targets, and we didn't see any bottles lined up or a target, right?
And dog owners should know where their dog is --especially before firing a gun randomly.
And Jones seemed too chill with Lucky's injury. Like maybe he healed him so Lucky would have some sort of bond to Jones and protect him and/or do his bidding.
I'd be happy to be wrong about all this and to have it turn out that Jones is a good dog owner, but that is not how I saw it.
But then Lucky didn't act like a dog who had been shot either. They couldn't show a dog in serious pain, but they could create sound effects. 
IDK.
I hated the dog shooting bit.

[peachmangosteen]

I didn't love the dog shooting either but it gave us Lucky so I'm fine with it lol.

[RachelKM]

47 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I would disagree with that IRL, and on the show, I didn't see it as accidental either. People shouldn't be shooting guns outdoors without specific targets, and we didn't see any bottles lined up or a target, right?
And dog owners should know where their dog is --especially before firing a gun randomly.
And Jones seemed too chill with Lucky's injury. Like maybe he healed him so Lucky would have some sort of bond to Jones and protect him and/or do his bidding.

I don't recall us ever seeing Lucky before.  I don't think Jones was aware that he was out there or knew about Lucky at all before he fired.  He seemed surprised to hear a dog's cry.  I agree, though, that Jones was a little too chill about it (possibly because he knew he could heal him, but still).  I also agree that no one should be firing a gun without specific targets and should be aware of potential safety hazards. 

But I love dogs and, as peachmangosteen said, the scene gave us Lucky. Plus, Jones seemed to really like him and vice versa.  And if a dog likes and trusts you, I am 80% more inclined to like and trust you.

[Cristofle]

35 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

I don't recall us ever seeing Lucky before.  I don't think Jones was aware that he was out there or knew about Lucky at all before he fired.  He seemed surprised to hear a dog's cry.  I agree, though, that Jones was a little too chill about it (possibly because he knew he could heal him, but still).  I also agree that no one should be firing a gun without specific targets and should be aware of potential safety hazards. 

But I love dogs and, as peachmangosteen said, the scene gave us Lucky. Plus, Jones seemed to really like him and vice versa.  And if a dog likes and trusts you, I am 80% more inclined to like and trust you.

Agreed. IRL, I will be enraged if you just start shooting guns randomly at nothing on your property (don't get me started on the time, when I was living in NC, that the guy who lived behind me gave his 13 year old son an AK-47 for Christmas and the kid promptly shot up my yard where my dogs had JUST been outside), but in the context of the show (and a man who spent about a year on this planet in 1947-1948 and lived on another planet entirely before that, lol, so he's probably not super familiar with our gun laws), I'm going to take it if we got Lucky. And the dog responded well to Nathan, so it seemed like the point was that Lucky liked Jones. Points for however they got the reaction out of him to have him look back and forth between Max and Jones in the cave like WTF, lol. 

[shapeshifter]

So Lucky just appeared out of nowhere after Jones shot his gun at ...nothing? 
Nobody's missing Lucky? Or maybe his name is Rover? 

[ybrik]

Was this the first time we saw Kyle’s family crest? If so it does seem very convenient to introduce it right before using it to make it look like Kyle dies. I don’t think Kyle dies but I think he needs to pretend to be dead. I think Alex’s reaction is due to having to fake Kyle’s death. Not sure what reason they will use but Alex may not agree with it. 

Let’s be honest, rarely is adding a dog to a TV show a bad idea. Lucky is a welcome addition 

Did I miss some scenes but were some of the other things in the hallucination that Isobel and Maria having never explained?

Don’t care much about chemistry or not. Can’t get behind Wyatt/Rosa. If he leaves and goes off to be a better man than that is fine but please don’t let this lead to anything more. 

So Liz’s lab partner is shady but is he working for the company to spy on Liz shady or possibly working for the government shady?

Having seen NP in other shows he definitely seems to work better as a con man type person who can be good but has the ‘devil in eyes’ over playing the good guy hero type. 

[Cristofle]

3 hours ago, ybrik said:

So Liz’s lab partner is shady but is he working for the company to spy on Liz shady or possibly working for the government shady?

I was wondering that too. I wonder if they couldn't get the Diego actor back and Heath has essentially taken his place, because Diego seemed to both work for the company AND have government connections. Because he aggressively wanted access to her research - suggesting they work on it off books together - but he also seemed weirdly upset that she quit. 

Re: Lucky, this may also be based on my experience with irresponsible pet owners in NC, heh, but I was assuming he was a stray. Pitbulls are unfortunately all too often just abandoned. 

[UnoAgain]

3 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

I was wondering that too. I wonder if they couldn't get the Diego actor back and Heath has essentially taken his place, because Diego seemed to both work for the company AND have government connections. Because he aggressively wanted access to her research - suggesting they work on it off books together - but he also seemed weirdly upset that she quit. 

Re: Lucky, this may also be based on my experience with irresponsible pet owners in NC, heh, but I was assuming he was a stray. Pitbulls are unfortunately all too often just abandoned. 

What happened to Diego.. My mind is blanking about the end of last season... Did he turn out to be a bad guy... I know I was hoping he wasn't.. As it would tacitly let liz off the hook for ditching him

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Cristofle said:

Re: Lucky, this may also be based on my experience with irresponsible pet owners in NC, heh, but I was assuming he was a stray. Pitbulls are unfortunately all too often just abandoned.

Ah ha! So Lucky and Jones likely share similar sad backstories? 
Still. Jones' robotic hint of remorse over shooting Lucky, and Lucky's hardly whimpering over multiple frick'n' gunshot wounds is both disturbing and puzzling.
The writers could have had Lucky show up with a wound from a fight and/or limping and had Jones heal him. Why have Jones shoot him???
And Lucky was on the ground (being a dog, not a cat) while Jones clearly fired straight ahead --so at least 3-4 feet off the ground. Is this just bad directing? 

[Cristofle]

3 hours ago, UnoAgain said:

What happened to Diego.. My mind is blanking about the end of last season... Did he turn out to be a bad guy... I know I was hoping he wasn't.. As it would tacitly let liz off the hook for ditching him

IIRC, it was a sort of gray area on exactly how shady he was, but it was obvious in the finale that Diego intended to steal her research. I think Cam called Max and told him everything needed to get out of the lab immediately because Diego was on his way over to take it after she listened in on some conversation with his and his...supervisor? I think it was lame from a character perspective that Diego leaned more towards shady because it DIDN'T really allow for any reflection on Liz's thought about how she'd treated him (although that seemed unlikely anyway, given how Carina was writing Liz at the time). With Heath, I lean towards the opposite. She's not going to learn anything from using him or endangering his career, lol. So maybe it would be more useful if he WAS playing her and she had to learn the hard way that she can't just trust strangers to be anywhere within six degrees of alien DNA. Not everyone is a good person because they share the same interest in science that she does. 

Quote

And Lucky was on the ground (being a dog, not a cat) while Jones clearly fired straight ahead --so at least 3-4 feet off the ground. Is this just bad directing? 

I think this was bad directing OR Lucky was further away than he appeared (what goes up will eventually go down, which WAY too few people seem to realize when randomly shooting guns irl). It seemed like of the shots he fired, one stray bullet somehow hit Lucky. I think the point of Lucky is not that Jones didn't react enough, but that he DID react at all. He accidentally shot him, but if he'd been a pure psychopath, he probably would have let him slowly bleed out/die from not being able to move. He was remorseful in some way over hitting the dog (albeit not the utter horror a lot of us would have if we accidentally injured a dog), enough to heal him and keep him, when no one was watching. So he didn't do it for show, he did it because some part of him was bothered he'd harmed Lucky. I don't think Jones is all good, so perhaps being utterly mortified would have been a stretch. This guy burned an unknown amount of people alive on sight immediately after crashing, after all. And he doesn't seem especially sorry about it. But he may not be beyond some levels of caring and remorse for harming a defenseless creature.

[shapeshifter]

21 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

Quote

And Lucky was on the ground (being a dog, not a cat) while Jones clearly fired straight ahead --so at least 3-4 feet off the ground. Is this just bad directing? 

I think this was bad directing OR Lucky was further away than he appeared (what goes up will eventually go down, which WAY too few people seem to realize when randomly shooting guns irl). It seemed like of the shots he fired, one stray bullet somehow hit Lucky. I think the point of Lucky is not that Jones didn't react enough, but that he DID react at all. He accidentally shot him, but if he'd been a pure psychopath, he probably would have let him slowly bleed out/die from not being able to move. He was remorseful in some way over hitting the dog (albeit not the utter horror a lot of us would have if we accidentally injured a dog), enough to heal him and keep him, when no one was watching. So he didn't do it for show, he did it because some part of him was bothered he'd harmed Lucky. I don't think Jones is all good, so perhaps being utterly mortified would have been a stretch. This guy burned an unknown amount of people alive on sight immediately after crashing, after all. And he doesn't seem especially sorry about it. But he may not be beyond some levels of caring and remorse for harming a defenseless creature.

Thanks, @Cristofle. This is helpful.
Having never fired a gun or even been around a gun being fired that was not on TV or on a movie screen, the physics of a bullet getting lower as it travels didn't occur to me.
So now I have just gone down a physics rabbit hole of bullet trajectory and parabolic path. 
I may have been thrown off about the likelihood of a dog on the ground getting hit by Jones' bullet by my memory of an old episode of The Closer in which a bullet traveled about a mile before accidentally hitting and killing someone at chest height, IIRC. 
So, based on this YouTube video (which I guess the Show didn't watch) if we were supposed to see Jones' bullet as accidentally hitting a dog, better directing would have been to have him shooting into the wind, perhaps illustrated by some dust and tumbleweed. 

And I appreciate your point, @Cristofle, that Jones wasn't acting "for show." But since the viewers are humans, a little look of initial horror on Jones' face would have reinforced his humanitarian actions. But I guess Jones is pretty jaded? 

Anyway, until at least the next episode, I'll probably still be wondering about that old adage "Hitler loved dogs" and wondering if it applies to Jones.

[peachmangosteen]

9 hours ago, ybrik said:

Did I miss some scenes but were some of the other things in the hallucination that Isobel and Maria having never explained?

Right lol. Like in the initial look at the vision that we got, I'm pretty sure Rosa was there and Wyatt but then neither were mentioned again.

[Cristofle]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Anyway, until at least the next episode, I'll probably still be wondering about that old adage "Hitler loved dogs" and wondering if it applies to Jones.

I definitely think Jones can and probably will get worse. He's not as calm as he appears (or Lucky wouldn't have gotten shot at all, over Jones apparently needing to expel frustration that Max believed he was evil) and there's a lot we don't know about him. I think a lot of what he does with the Pod Squad is a manipulation. But I do think this episode was trying to portray that he is not 100% evil and that he appears to have some genuine level of attachment to Max (one small moment I liked from Nathan was Jones' smile of seeming pure relief when Max decided to allow him to share the rest of his memories about the night he got locked up).

Also, I have definitely considered that he IS the dictator and his talk of "my boy" is actually referring to Michael, but I am not sure if that is Carina-related PTSD, lol. The one thing from this episode that makes me think that's not the case was that we actually saw him go through Roy's mind looking for Max's location, and that he stopped as soon as he saw Little Max. He's also shown almost no interest in Michael, and his rage that Max referred to him as evil (when he didn't seem that fussed by Michael's similarly low opinion of him) would suggest he's genuinely more attached to Max. But I don't know. I feel like I can't trust this show still, lol. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

Well Jones passed the "Save the Cat" test.  Sort of.  He didn't leave the dog die so, in theory, he is "redeemable."

But since he shot the dog in the first place, I remain skeptical.

[sweetandsour]

Now I'm wondering if the funeral is for Kyle's mom.  She left town, but I imagine she would come back if Kyle is seriously injured, recovering in the hospital (or dead, with his funeral happening at another time).  She would have gone after the people who did that to Kyle, and the only one of the regular characters who seem really, really upset is Max, who used to work for Kyle's mom and had more of a relationship with her than anyone else they've shown at the funeral.

I'm still really mehhhh about the Wyatt redemption thing.  Hopefully it's over.  It's so easy and unearned and frankly, I find it to be the opposite of inspiring or hopeful.  He didn't come to disavow his racism and violence through hard work and changing his mind.  He just forgot what he had done, what he had believed, and the major loss event in his life that was the impetus for his racism.  OK, I'll give him a point for resisting the racist influences around him now and maybe all the show is really trying to say is that racists are made - if factors are different, they don't turn out that way, but I'm still not here to see this.  I know redemption arcs are common, especially in genre shows where supernatural forces are at work - vampires, werewolves, witches, etc. did all kinds of horrible things, but oh, that spell has been broken, that intrinsic nature was overcome by their sheer will and honorable strength, they lost their marbles avenging an unholy, evil act committed against their families - tons of the collateral damage, but you can kinda understand, right? etc.  But I am not into this here.

[Cristofle]

The Wyatt actor is fine and has decent enough chemistry with Amber, but I just don't feel this show needed "Racist white guy is redeemed with the help of magical memory erasing drug." And I don't really believe he was some great kid turned horribly racist by his sister's death, especially because it's been mentioned along the his father is wealthy, racist, and all too willing to bail out him and his racist pals again and again. Also, in our one glimpse at his sister, she wasn't exactly a treat. They've completely twisted who he was to redeem him in a pretty dang cheap way. 

I'm now thinking it might be Kyle's mother too. They never really figured out how to integrate her the way the OG Valenti became integrated into the team. I think that once Kyle is healed, they'll assume they stopped the murder, and then somehow his mother will die. It would explain why Max, who was close to her for years, is so upset. 

[RachelKM]

7 hours ago, sweetandsour said:

I'm still really mehhhh about the Wyatt redemption thing.  Hopefully it's over.  It's so easy and unearned and frankly, I find it to be the opposite of inspiring or hopeful.  He didn't come to disavow his racism and violence through hard work and changing his mind.  He just forgot what he had done, what he had believed, and the major loss event in his life that was the impetus for his racism.  OK, I'll give him a point for resisting the racist influences around him now and maybe all the show is really trying to say is that racists are made - if factors are different, they don't turn out that way, but I'm still not here to see this.

Agreed.  I will add that he wasn't just a racist douchebag who annoyed and casually harassed people when in his path.  He tried to MURDER PEOPLE including members of Rosa's family and Rosa herself.  Being a bigot doesn't make you a violent psychopath.  And, while I'm sure his sister's death was traumatic, trying to murder family members of the person you believe is responsible A DECADE LATER cannot be chalked up to mere grief.

Also, had we ever heard anything about Wyatt and Rosa being friends in high school?  Because that seemed out of no where to me.  I admit, however, I seem to forget details about this show more than most. 

4 hours ago, Cristofle said:

The Wyatt actor is fine and has decent enough chemistry with Amber, but I just don't feel this show needed "Racist white guy is redeemed with the help of magical memory erasing drug." And I don't really believe he was some great kid turned horribly racist by his sister's death, especially because it's been mentioned along the his father is wealthy, racist, and all too willing to bail out him and his racist pals again and again. Also, in our one glimpse at his sister, she wasn't exactly a treat. They've completely twisted who he was to redeem him in a pretty dang cheap way. 

All of this. 

[Cristofle]

3 hours ago, RachelKM said:

Also, had we ever heard anything about Wyatt and Rosa being friends in high school?  Because that seemed out of no where to me.  I admit, however, I seem to forget details about this show more than most. 

She said in passing he used to be nice, but it was NEVER mentioned that they were friends (and it seems unlikely tbh, given the way he later talked about her). She was his sister's drug dealer, lol. Until she wasn't and then his sister graffitied her car with "Go back to Mexico". I don't know where this idea came from, but it feels very forced, out of nowhere, and not in line with what we previously knew about Wyatt or about Rosa, frankly. 

[tennisgurl]

Not Kyle! I should have known, with the ominous warning on the radio about how everyone in Kyle's family dies helping oppressed people, plus the funeral, and I figured it out right before Maria and Isobel did, but I still gasped when Kyle got shoved through that pipe. I really don't think they are actually going to kill him off, certainly not so early and in such an offhand way, but I am still going into next week extremely concerned. If they do kill Kyle, I might be done with the show, Kyle is the absolute best and they are finally giving him some good stuff to do! If Kyle's dead, who will firmly but caringly call the other characters on their crap? Who will be the resent grown up in town? Who will Isobel eventually realize she's in love with? I really do not think that Kyle will die, but if he does, expect a lot of very angry tweets from me coming your way, show. 

Its amazing how much more likable Michael is when he isn't in the middle of a boring love triangle or sitting around feeling sorry for himself. He had some really good scenes with Kyle (who makes every scene better) and then with Max, even showing some self awareness when he admitted that he might be letting his own idealized view of his mother cloud his judgement regarding Jones. Which is impressive for anyone on this show, let alone Michael, so good on him. 

I think that Kyle might have competition for my favorite Roswell citizen now that we have been introduced to Lucky, the sweetest boy in town. Its pretty narratively easy to get us to feel more sympathy for Jones by showing him healing a cute dog he accidently hurt and then bonding with him, but damn it if it didn't work. Lucky likes him, so why shouldn't I? I am not sure that Jones is totally a good guy, or that we can really trust him and his motives, but his care for Max seems very real, and the flashbacks do make things look a lot more complicated then they first appeared to be. He might be fun to have as a sort of uneasy ally, who is probably on the side of the heroes but has ambiguous motives and will cross some lines that they might not want to cross. 

I would have liked the Wyatt/Rosa thing so much more if Wyatt came to his own realization that racism was wrong and actually grew as a person, admitting how terribly he has acted, its much less interesting having him cured of racism via amnesia. The whole plot is weird and leaves a bad taste in my mouth, so while the actor is good and he and Rosa have nice chemistry, I am happy that he is going off into the sunset, hopefully for quite some time.

Maria and Isobel on their dream quest was fun, its amazing how much subconscious Liz is more likable then regular Liz. Maybe Liz needs to get bangs? It was fun seeing seeing them bond a bit and Maria letting out how frustrated she feels that she's not fully human enough to really feel human but not alien enough to be a part of the alien club, and that Isobel apologized. In an Isobel kind of way. I was a bit disappointed though that we didn't find out that Isobel is totally into Kyle and has been denying it, but maybe after this recent near death experience?

That pipe through Kyle looks freaking nasty, even if Kyle survives (which he better) I hate seeing him in danger or in pain, leave Kyle alone damn it! I am guessing that Max manages to keep Kyle from dying right away, but is too weak to fully heal him and Jones ends up proving himself to everyone by finishing the job and saving Kyle, Max manages to keep him from dying but he's still on the deaths door at the hospital and everyone has to find a way to save him with some alien juice or something. As for the funeral, I like the idea that its Kyle's mom who's in the coffin, its notable that we still haven't seen who is actually in there, just the Valenti family crest. If Kyle was dead I feel like everyone would be way more upset, especially Alex, who seems way too chill for being at one of his best friends funeral, and Liz, who looks like she was sneaking in late to a lecture at the local college she was dreading, not the funeral of her ex who is also a close friend. Max would be the most upset about her being dead as he knew her the best, it lines up pretty well. Or we will learn that it was Kyle and we find out that Maria's visions are preventable? 

Liz was just kind of there, like she was on a totally different, much more boring, show. I am really glad that it looks like she might be heading back for Roswell soon so we can stop having to cut back to her in LA being boring and self important, although I am not sure I trust her lab partner. He has seemed nice enough, but now with him freaking out about Liz leaving LA, it makes me wonder if he is working for the big company she's leaving and will steal her research?

[shapeshifter]

49 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I would have liked the Wyatt/Rosa thing so much more if Wyatt

How about if Jones heroically saves Max, thereby depleting the Jones body of otherplanetenergium, and then Jones' psyche takes up residence in either almost dead Kyle's body or Wyatt's body after Wyatt gets almost dead somehow?

About Rosa + Wyatt:  Since Rosa was resurrected, isn't she only 18 or 19, whereas Wyatt is in his 30s? Or am I off by a few years or a decade or so?

[RachelKM]

3 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

About Rosa + Wyatt:  Since Rosa was resurrected, isn't she only 18 or 19, whereas Wyatt is in his 30s? Or am I off by a few years or a decade or so?

Rosa was about 20 when she died.  She's been resurrected about 18 months.  So she's 22ish.  Wyatt is within a year or so of everyone else on the show should be around 30/31.  So yeah, in addition to Wyatt's erstwhile homicidal tendencies, Wyatt is a good bit older.  On the other hand, he doesn't remember the 10 years Rosa was dead. So, to the extent that Wyatt was ever at the maturity of a late 20s early 30s adult, he isn't now. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[peachmangosteen]

8 years isn't much imo. Everyone made a lot of good points about them but I simply don't care because they're cute lol. I would roll though if they just dropped Wyatt now. Like what would be the point?

[Cristofle]

23 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Or we will learn that it was Kyle and we find out that Maria's visions are preventable? 

I don't think so. Alex's behavior and what he said is still just all wrong. (and good point that Liz sneaking in halfway through also seems unlikely if it's Kyle himself, but is perhaps more likely if it's Kyle's mother) Why would he cover up anything for Jordan? Now, I CAN see him covering something up if perhaps Jordan kills Kyle's mother and one of the aliens kills Jordan (which would fit with "Noah all over again"). 

The one thing that's still wrong for that in this vision is how upset Rosa is (and also that Helena appeared to be there, which would be hella inappropriate, lol, but I just checked, and we didn't see Helena's face. Which could be that they didn't have the actress, or that it was a fake-out and it's not Helena). But whoever is in that coffin, I don't think it was ever Kyle based off this particular crime, so something must happen that upsets Rosa. 

Also, since that scene is intercut with Liz quitting her company, I stand by my original assessment - Heath was WAY too upset in that scene and it was weird. He wanted her to stay with the company for some reason he hasn't revealed yet.