S06.e05: The Satanist's Apprentice

[scarynikki12]

Quote

With Astra now a mortal, she finds it hard to adapt to the real world with no guidance from Constantine.

 

 

[scarynikki12]

Was that an actual 80s song or just an 80sesque?

Nice seeing what Astra’s been up to. And she’s still quite literal when she talks to people. I love Con but he should have taken at least a day to get her started in her topside life.

They would never have had the money but I would give everything to see David Tennant playing Crowley. Matt Ryan did a great job but Tennant is the dream.

All that said Astra, honey, if you’re already aware that Crowley is a bad guy maybe don’t give him what he wants. Sure, do the switch once to show Con you mean business but send Crowley back immediately. 

Sara’s back! And so not here for Bishop’s shit.

I like the actor playing Bishop. He wants to turn humans into spider hybrids and created the Ava clones so he is the definition of Big Bad.

Zari’s outrage that she was transformed into a flip phone cracked me up.

The animation worked well and suited the direction the episode went. Clever way to have Astra get around not knowing how to read music by being a cartoon princess (Con was right).

Something about this season that I like is the change in Con now that he has his soul back. He’s the same guy generally but he’s been smiling a lot more. Zari’s why he’s happier but I’m talking about how he’s expressing himself. Even when he was flirting and hooking up with Zari last season he went with a grin but now he’s full on smiling. It’s a nice demonstration of the soul restoration.

I look forward to Con and Astra studying magic together. Presumably Con still remembers everything that’s required so he may advance quicker.

[Jediknight]

Just now, scarynikki12 said:

Was that an actual 80s song or just an 80sesque?

It reminded me of "Runaway" by Bon Jovi.

Any other show, and I would wonder just what in the butt was that episode?  But this is Legends, an episode taking a Disney Princess turn, complete with people being turned into inanimate objects, animation, and singing isn't that far out there.

That animation was freaking gorgeous.  Seriously, that was major motion picture quality.

[cambridgeguy]

Sara really has lost her edge if she wasn't suspicious of nurse Ava's sudden change of heart.  I'm not sure why Bishop actually needed her to find the ship - if it's within walking distance then he should have enough minions to find it himself.

[DanaK]

Well that was nuts, but it wouldn’t be LoT if it wasn’t. The animation was unique and fun

I didn’t realize Caty had directed this until I read an interview with her about it

[Lantern7]

I was napping and I missed the first six minutes of the episode. I'll catch up On Demand, but it was easy to get into. Basically, Astra has trouble adapting to not being in Hell, and this season's Big Bad is an asshole with a manbun and a perky Ava. For this series? Seems about right.

I heard about the Beebo Christmas special, and I'm concerned that it won't be meta enough. I liked the animation tonight, as well as what the Legends were transformed into. Of course Ava became a binder. Of course Zari would be a cell phone. Rolling wheel of cheese for Nate? Heck, yes, and that's without throwing in a reference to the outfit he wears 1-2 times per season.

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

Sara really has lost her edge if she wasn't suspicious of nurse Ava's sudden change of heart.

I really hope she was drugged enough to not think of that. I mean, she did wind up going sickhouse and breaking Bishop's neck, but she still got knocked out in the end. I'm also doubting whether Sara would hold up as a mission. I don't mean Sara herself . . . she's freaking awesome. I mean why Bishop is so interested in her, and why Gary decided to pose as a human being . . . because of Sara.

[lurker22]

I thought with Sara kidnapped and away from the team, I would get Sara scenes without Ava around. But nope, still can't get away from her.

On a brighter note, the animation seems fun. It really does look like the old school Disney cartoons.

[thuganomics85]

Finally caught up with Astra again!  Not surprised that she is having problems adjusting to living "top side", and dealing with pesky issues like jobs, money, laundry, asshole neighbors, and needing to eat!  Constantine really should have done a better job with preparing her and making sure she was set, before zipping off to go legending with the Legends again.  Still, Astra really was naive to let Crowley get to her the way he did.  I know Matt Lucas has a magical voice and all, but come on!

But, hey, it all leads to a showdown where everyone turns into an animated character straight out of a Disney flick, and I certainly can't complain about that!  Kind of wished we had more of that in this episode, but I thought they did a pretty great job with the time they had.

Matt Ryan seem to be having a blast as Crowley.

Zari being pissed that she was turned into a flip phone!  Hee!

So, Constantine also lost his powers and basically has to start over again?  I wonder if this decision was due to budget or they just felt like he was getting a bit too overpowered, and wanted to find a way to not him keep using magic to get out of scenarios.

Looks like the new big baddie is this Bishop guy, who comes off like the worst kind of tech bro ever: one who wants to humans into some kind of hybrid and "ascend" or something.  Why is it when a character claims he or she wants to improve upon humanity, it somehow comes off sounding way worse?

Love you, Sara, but you are clearly letting your feelings for Ava cause you to put trust in the other clones that are clearly not on your side.  Going to need to snap out of that very soon!

Cool that Caity Lotz got to direct another episode.

[tv echo]

I thought it was a good episode, although I was a bit bored with so much Astra in the beginning. I don't think that she can support an episode by herself (imo).  Luckily, Constantine soon showed up and the rest of the Legends showed up later. Caity Lotz did a great job as director.

On the plus side, turning the Legends into Beauty and the Beast-like talking objects was cute, and the animated sequence with the singing Princess Astra was quite enjoyable.

The highlights of the episode for me were the animation fight sequence (when Princess Astra and the Legends-objects fought Crowley-Constantine) and Matt Ryan's performance as the Crowley-possessed Constantine.

As for the Sara subplot, I don't think I can take a double dose of Ava in one episode - which also continued the Arrowverse tradition of bad wigs. I don't think they could've found a more unflattering, ill-fitting wig for Jes Macallan. The Ava clone betrayal was so predictable, I agree it's ridiculous that Sara fell for it. 

(source)

Edited June 7, 2021 by tv echo

[lurker22]

What in the disney hell was that, lol?

Now that I have seen the whole episode, I thought it was one of the more enjoyable ones this season. I think it was probably the fact that there were only 2 plots in the episode, and they spent time on each of them, unlike the usual episodes when they kept alternating between 3 plots every 30 seconds.

My favorite part of the episode was actually the Astra parts. Loved the beginning with the 80s workout, and the whole montage of Astra struggling with normal everyday tasks. And the lovely orchestra music that accompanied the scenes. I felt like I was watching something different. And then the Beauty and the Beast style of turning the team into fun objects. It was still Olivia as Disney Princess Astra, right? Because it sounded very much like the typical cartoon princess voice, more high-pitched than her usual voice. The whole animation and singing was great. Caity did a really good job directing.

When I read the description of Bishop from interviews, I was afraid he was going to be another Vandal Savage. There's some resemblance, IMO, but I think there's also something darker about him. Hopefully. Did he only want Sara to train the new humans? If so, that's seems pretty lame to me. I did like that he called Sara "the woman who cannot be killed" though. Since he likes dancing so much, any chance we get to see Sara/Caity and him in a dance-off?

The Ava clone was predictably not to be trusted. Unfortunately, the Sara we have now can't tell the difference. At least we got to see her fight. Is Bishop immortal, or did the fight not really happen (like a simulation)?

I suspect this Bishop storyline will turn into a storyline for Ava. We won't see Sara process her abduction, as usual. Instead, Sara will spend her time comforting Ava about her clone insecurity, because she's about to literally meet her maker. It's amazing how the writers can always find ways to insert Ava into everything to do with Sara.

Edited June 7, 2021 by lurker22

[bettername2come]

My favorite part was the meta comment about how the show Sara was watching really found itself in season 2 when they knew what they were and went for it.

The animated scenes reminded me of the animated portions of Enchanted.

[tennisgurl]

That animation was impressively high quality, it really did look very old school Disney. I am glad we got a whole episode focused mostly on Astra and her struggles with living her life outside of Hell, especially as I feel like the show has felt a bit crowded lately character wise. I love Constantine, but he can get real tunnel vision sometimes, like when he is focused on Zari and the aliens, so I could understand Astra's frustration at him seemingly throwing her into the deep end of real life without much help. Of course, trusting the creepy warlock stuck in a painting going on about exchanging souls for power is probably not the smartest way to get your groove back. Aleister Crowley is one of those historical figures who lends themselves really well to fantasy stories, as the actual guy kind of already seems like a character in an urban fantasy novel, so of course he ends up here eventually. You would really tell that Matt Ryan was having a blast playing Crowley, and while it was probably partially due to budgetary reasons (wanting to spend money on aliens and not magic) John losing his powers and having to start from scratch could be a good story for him. I hope that it doesn't mean he'll be demoted though, I would miss having him and Astra around, even as I complain about the already loaded cast. 

The animated sequence was really fun, I actually wish they had kept it going for a bit longer. Astra singing to defeat Crowley, because all animated princesses automatically know how to sing, was funny and cute, as were the legends being turned into magical talking objects. Zari is mostly just upset about being a flip phone! The horror! This in general was a fun episode, it had a pretty good mix of wacky and heartfelt, and the animation let them play around a bit with genre in the way that this show does at its best. I also really liked the comic book flashes we saw when John talked about how Astra's mom made a spell to take his powers away just in case, it looked a lot like the original Hellblazer comics where John first appeared. 

So we finally meet our big bad and...he's some manbun tech bro with a plan to deal with finite resources that would make Thanos do a double take. I am curious as to where this guy and his manbats are going and what his deal actually is, plus the actor is pretty good, although he is already starting to give me unfortunate flashbacks to Lex Zucherberg from Batman V Superman, which is really not what I want to see in a bad guy we are going to be stuck with for awhile. I do love watching Sara kick ass and that she is the kind of hero who is down with snapping a few necks for the greater good, but it looks like she is still in the thick of it. I am also annoyed that, even in the vastness of space, she is still attached to Ava's, like the show cant imagine Sara being anything but Ava's girlfriend now even if Ava isn't even around in her plot, just a bunch of Ava clones. It also led to her making dumb choices like easily trusting the Ava clone who was obviously going to betray her, just because she looks like her one true love Ava, and I am worried that having all of the Ava clones will make this more about her and her clone angst than about Sara. 

Was the long Wynonna Earp reference a cute shout out to a show that has done shout outs to this show and Avalance, or shameless and cringy Tumblr pandering? Or a bit of both? The meta about the second season being when the show found itself made me smile.  

Great directing by Caity Lotz. 

[DanaK]

17 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

My favorite part was the meta comment about how the show Sara was watching really found itself in season 2 when they knew what they were and went for it.

The animated scenes reminded me of the animated portions of Enchanted.

I think the most hilarious part of the episode was Sara being forced to watch Wynonna Earp and the metacommentary on it. One of the writers must love that show

[driver18]

Just want to say a word about the actor playing Biship, Raffi Barsoumian. I know him from a brief stint he did on The Vampire Diaries. He was absolutely stellar there playing a completely different role. His acting, his charisma, his timing was absolutely stellar. He played someone who could have come across as just a bad guy, but Barsourmian gave this guy layers, and rather, he was a true believer (who, yeah, went too far). I was so excited when I found out he was cast this season on Legends. He's fantastic.

I adored this episode. It was my favorite of this season and I think it ranks up there with some of their best. The idea of the animation was wonderful, and the execution was brilliant. I thought everyone was in character, yes, even Sara not seeing through the Ava-clone. Sara has already seen that the Ava clone can have her humanity be found. And whether any one likes the Sara/Ava love story or not as written, Sara deeply loves Ava and believes 100% in her. Ava is her blind spot. So naturally she is going to believe that every Ava clone can be saved.... and by her. Because after all, she did it once. And, hey, she's spent the last couple of weeks or so having everyone she talks to tell her how amazing she is, so, yeah, go with it!

I also still believe (and really, really hope) that this season is setting it up that Ava really isn't captain (or even co-captain) material because all we are seeing so far this season without Sara there to cheer her on, guide her towards the correct decision and basically help fix her screw-ups is that Ava really, really sucks at it. She's good at organizing, she's good at making lists, at keeping people on task and such, that should be her job. Make her in charge of shit like that. It will make her happy which will make Sara happy, and then Sara can do her thing as captain without feeling guilty.

I loved all of the Astrid from start to finish, and the idea of her and John learning magic together (study buddies!) is really intriguing. I like it!

[tv echo]

7 hours ago, lurker22 said:

The Ava clone was predictably not to be trusted. Unfortunately, the Sara we have now can't tell the difference. At least we got to see her fight. Is Bishop immortal, or did the fight not really happen (like a simulation)?

Maybe we'll find out that Bishop is a clone or one of many Bishop clones and that the original Bishop died on Earth a long time ago - although I think that story has been done before by someone else (but then pretty much everything in this genre has been done before).

[Florinaldo]

I was disappointed that although the painting took on Constantine's appearance, Crowley did not make into the real-life world. Too bad because I had never noticed before how Matt Lucas can indeed be made to look like a comic version of old AC. I suppose COVID restrictions prevented him from leaving the UK, so he was limited to purring a few seductive voice-over lines to trick dumb Astra. A missed opportunity, unfortunately.

The magic formulas he was teaching her had a definite whiff of Harry Potter, with their debased Latin. Something "the Great Beast" as AC dubbed himself at times would not have appreciated.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Florinaldo

[Starfish35]

1 hour ago, driver18 said:

I also still believe (and really, really hope) that this season is setting it up that Ava really isn't captain (or even co-captain) material

It would restore some of my faith in the show if that proved true.  I know Ava isn’t going anywhere (unfortunately), but it would make it a bit easier to deal with.  I’m not holding my breath though.  😕

[Sakura12]

This one was okay. I did like the objects the Legends turned into, Nate is definitely a hunk of cheese, although I'm surprised Spooner was a fork and not a spoon. The animation was pretty good for that little bit they had. I also liked seeing assasssin Sara, but I don't like that Sara's storyline has to always come back to being about Ava. When Ava's storyline's don't have to revolve around Sara. Ava gets her own storylines and then takes over Sara's. Which I see happening with having Sara meet Ava's creator. 

These writers seem to think Ava's the best character ever, so I don't see them thinking Ava's a bad Captain. They think she fits as the Captain of the misfits the Legends are. It's Sara that doesn't fit anymore, that's why she's become nothing but Ava's girlfriend to them. If they didn't need her for Avalance, Caity probably wouldn't gotten the boot that Brandon did.

Also did Bishop turn Sara into something, since the nurse Ava said that transition can be tough. 

[BaggythePanther]

So was this Legend’s BLM episode? If so it’s the best one so far. I think my favorite part of the episode was when cheese wheel Nate steeled up. If animating the characters is the only way to have them use their powers in not opposed to more animated episodes.
 

Astra grew on me last season so it was good to see what she’s been up to. Interesting that she’s only supposed to be 15. Shame Nora is gone because she went through something similar. I wasn’t watching closely so every time they spoke about Crowley I kept expecting Mark Sheppard to show up.

8 hours ago, DanaK said:

I think the most hilarious part of the episode was Sara being forced to watch Wynonna Earp and the metacommentary on it. One of the writers must love that show

Characters on Wynonna Earp have talked about doing a “Sara Lance cosplay” and are fans of Avalance. This was just Legends responding back.

I’ve always been interested in Ava’s clone background (probably because I watched too much Orphan Black). But not at the expense of giving Sara a story. I can understand that the writers really love Ava and want to give her a lot to do. I don’t understand why that comes at Sara’s expense.

[lurker22]

17 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

These writers seem to think Ava's the best character ever, so I don't see them thinking Ava's a bad Captain. They think she fits as the Captain of the misfits the Legends are. It's Sara that doesn't fit anymore, that's why she's become nothing but Ava's girlfriend to them. If they didn't need her for Avalance, Caity probably wouldn't gotten the boot that Brandon did.

Also did Bishop turn Sara into something, since the nurse Ava said that transition can be tough. 

I don't understand why the writers keep writing Ava to be so insecure and needing so much encouragement and hand-holding from Sara and Nate, and then failing so much as the captain if they like Ava so much. And it's obvious Ava's their favorite. Do the writers think that makes Ava endearing? All that does is reinforce how undeserving of the co-captain title Ava was and how blind Sara was to make her the co-captain. Then again, I've seen how there are people who thought Ava was the most suited for Captain since she was the TB director and therefore a great leader (something I also don't understand because Ava basically became director by default because her bosses were either arrested or dead, and then she basically ran it to the ground). So maybe the writers were writing for them.

I wonder if Bishop would create more Sara clones, since this seems to be a clone story. Hope Sara doesn't become Amelia Earhart.

Spoiler

There was also a shot of Sara in some sort of glass compartment in the extended trailer, much like an Ava clone was in in S4.

 

[Sakura12]

Ava was created to be a follower not a leader. Sara thinks she's different than the other clones, but she has not done anything that goes against her programming. Which I guess Bishop did point out. She's bossy Ava and she has shown no willingness to learn other ways to act. Or learn anything new at all. She's not even bothering to learn basic human emotions or how to comfort her girlfriend when she loses someone she loved. 

The only thing Ava can't do is follow orders from Sara. She can only be happy as Sara's boss or equal. What does that say about their relationship or how she views Sara. 

I'm also wondering about the inseparable line Bishop said at the end. What does that mean?

 

[snarktini]

On 6/7/2021 at 4:50 PM, Sakura12 said:

although I'm surprised Spooner was a fork and not a spoon

They had her say something about "forking" someone up, I assume that's why. Cutlery themed but not dull like a spoon and it gave them a punny line.

[benteen]

This episode was a lot of fun and the best of the season so far.  I didn't mind it being as Astra focused as I found it engaging.  Constaine was really being an ass to her.  I enjoyed how it went from Harry Potter and Hogwats to Disney animation.  The animated bits were a blast and looked the way they were supposed to.

Matt Ryan was fantastic as Crowley and seemed to enjoy the opportunity to play him.  Rememberd Matt Lucas from Doctor Who and it was nice to see, or hear him.

Great to have Sara back though I wish the writers weren't so determined to define her completely by her relationship with Ava.  Of course this new villan created Ava because EVERYTHING is about Ava.  Bishop seems like he'll be a good villain though.

Nice job by Caity directing.

Some metacommentary about the show getting better in its second season.  While I agree, I still enjoy Legends Season 1.

 

[Lantern7]

I know I’m late . . . didn’t know Matt Lucas played Crowley. He’s the second male companion from Doctor Who to appear on the show (third if you count John Barrowman). Anyone else hoping for more overlap in the future?

[blackwing]

On 6/6/2021 at 11:45 PM, lurker22 said:

I thought with Sara kidnapped and away from the team, I would get Sara scenes without Ava around. But nope, still can't get away from her.

On a brighter note, the animation seems fun. It really does look like the old school Disney cartoons.

I was annoyed at that too... even when Sara is off on her own, this show has to find a way to insert Ava into her storyline.  So we got "double the Ava, none of the fun".  But on the plus side, at least we didn't have to see Gary.

On 6/7/2021 at 2:55 AM, thuganomics85 said:

So, Constantine also lost his powers and basically has to start over again?  I wonder if this decision was due to budget or they just felt like he was getting a bit too overpowered, and wanted to find a way to not him keep using magic to get out of scenarios.

 

I agree, I think it's budget reasons.  Too much money to keep doing his special effects, he is the only one who consistently uses his powers.  How convenient that the others all got animated and only used their powers in animated form.