S04.E07: Home

[JennyMominFL]

6 hours ago, akr said:

A single bomb is a localized catastrophe. The (additional) trouble is you don't know where it'll stop after the 

Those were atomic bombs. Hydrogen bombs, which have been around since the 50s are 1000 times stronger than the atom bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki

Edited May 31, 2021 by JennyMominFL

[Quilt Fairy]

7 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Much of the US military is overseas. I wonder who controls that?

I have been wondering what happened to the US Armed Forces in general.  To whom did they commit their loyalty?  They swear to defend the Constitution against all enemies. The armed soldiers we see in Gilead have no insignia that I've noticed.  Rita's son, I believe, was in the U.S. Army and was killed fighting Gilead insurrectionists. But there's no way that Gilead could be fighting on all the fronts mentioned in the show if they did not, at some point, co-opt the U.S. military. 

Also, I need to correct my correction on the question of who is Nicole's father.  Offred had sex with Nick on more than one occasion, but that was also when Fred was taking her to Jezebel's.  So there was an extended period of time (impossible to tell with this show) where she was having sex with both men.  While it was crystal clear in season 1 that the baby was Nick's, the writers have taken the issue into murky territory in season 4. 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Quilt Fairy

[AngelaHunter]

Very late here. I just now watched this, so sorry for duplicating anything written here this week. 

I got so excited to see the first ep in ages that I liked. After disliking her so often, I loved Elizabeth Moss from the minute she stepped off the boat and felt her actions/reactions were totally realistic. LOVED the reunion with her baby - which I think will be a major factor to help June heal - and with Rita. Loved the ladies sitting around drinking and then ragging on Serena. It was all very touching.

I was SO waiting for her to meet with Serena, but partly with trepidation because I was half-afraid she might pull a Rita, with the "Ma'm" shit but she was perfect and turned the tables so deliciously with none of this "turn the other cheek " or "I forgive you" crap. I think this meeting was another step in the right direction towards recovery. Seething with rage, she was wonderfully nasty and only pushing Serena over to lie on the floor while screaming "DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME?" - just as she did to June - would have made it any better.  I'm  pretty sure I would have after the cruelty that witch rained down on June at whim. I was wishing at least for a slap in the face.  Still, it was so satisfying I nearly needed a cigararette.

EM did an amazing job this week, just with subtle fleeting facial expressions portraying how hard it was for her to understand she's free now and cannot be ordered around by anyone in authority. She's free to lock a door if she wants to, free to take a shower in privacy, things we all take for granted, but huge for her. Her meltdown in the grocery store was pitch-perfect.

It's still annoying that Fred and Serena are given these luxurious surroundings and privileges and allowed to canoodle and conspire together when they are major criminals, kidnappers, rapists, and torturers.

Unfortunately Luke annoys me more than ever but that's just me. Here's his wife, battered, shell-shocked and suffering what has to the mother of all cases of PTSD. "So, hey! What do you want to do now?" while she stands there, filthy and traumatized, as though they were on a weekend jaunt to Vegas.

Just like any brutalized prisoner of war, she needs immediate counselling and support, not room service. She'll never really get over this and it will haunt her forever, but some counselling would help her sort out her feelings.

Little aside: I immediately recognized the hotel to which June was taken as the Royal York. I've stayed there more than once. Gorgeous place.

[akr]

4 hours ago, JennyMominFL said:

Those were atomic bombs. Hydrogen bombs, which have been around since the 50s are 1000 times stronger than the atom bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki

That's why I mentioned the test bombs in the south Pacific. I am old enough that I had a teacher in Junior High who was on one of the Navy boats nearby - close enough that when they were asked to look the opposite direction and hold their hands over their faces, they could see the bones in their hands when it went off. Needless to say, he thought that they had been too close. 

At least one of the Nevada tests was of an H bomb. I could also have mentioned Russia & Kazakhstan (USSR), Australia (British), North Africa (Algeria, under the French), and Xinjiang (China) as other sites of above-ground testing of nukes, including in some cases H bombs. [edited to leave out info re testing by India, Pakistan, North Korea, and Israel.] 

Edited May 31, 2021 by akr

[Brn2bwild]

Thinking about June's final speech, I really don't like that we're supposed to (or so it seems) think that it applied equally to June and Serena.  As damaged as June is right now, she is not and will never be Serena.  June became damaged because of other people's narcissism, whereas Serena's narcissism and emptiness led her to deliberately hurt countless other people.  June is not a psychopath and certainly not a "consummate actress" -- it's usually pretty easy to see what June is thinking at any given moment.  June might have some traits in common with Serena, as with Aunt Lydia, but there is still much that separates her from either of them.

[Bannon]

It really isn't critical to the plot, except in the speculative sense, depending on how much diplomacy takes center stage, but an observation on nuclear weapons. The US Navy's Trident ballistic missile subs do carry some warheads that are about half as powerful as that which was used on Hiroshima. Again, I think the easiest explanation for Gilead's constraint in how it bullies other nations is that after the coup, at least some Trident subs stayed loyal to the US.

[Umbelina]

23 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

I have been wondering what happened to the US Armed Forces in general.  To whom did they commit their loyalty?  They swear to defend the Constitution against all enemies. The armed soldiers we see in Gilead have no insignia that I've noticed.  Rita's son, I believe, was in the U.S. Army and was killed fighting Gilead insurrectionists. But there's no way that Gilead could be fighting on all the fronts mentioned in the show if they did not, at some point, co-opt the U.S. military. 

 

I think this would be a good discussion, but I honestly can't remember how much the show went into this.  If you'd like, perhaps take it over to the "blessed be the book readers" thread and we could discuss it there freely.  The military issue is talked about in the books, and has been on the show (but not as clearly.)

20 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

Thinking about June's final speech, I really don't like that we're supposed to (or so it seems) think that it applied equally to June and Serena.  As damaged as June is right now, she is not and will never be Serena.  June became damaged because of other people's narcissism, whereas Serena's narcissism and emptiness led her to deliberately hurt countless other people.  June is not a psychopath and certainly not a "consummate actress" -- it's usually pretty easy to see what June is thinking at any given moment.  June might have some traits in common with Serena, as with Aunt Lydia, but there is still much that separates her from either of them.

Conquered and abused and raped, tortured, the survivors of watching friends and family members be murdered are of course damaged.  Wanting revenge or justice (depending on which way you view it) may make them do horrific things (or things that seem horrific to the other side.)  For example, June poisoning all of those commanders at Jezebels.

One person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist.  War is hell.  The victors write the history.

So, no, I don't think June and Serena are, or will ever be, on the same level of horridness.

13 hours ago, Bannon said:

It really isn't critical to the plot, except in the speculative sense, depending on how much diplomacy takes center stage, but an observation on nuclear weapons. The US Navy's Trident ballistic missile subs do carry some warheads that are about half as powerful as that which was used on Hiroshima. Again, I think the easiest explanation for Gilead's constraint in how it bullies other nations is that after the coup, at least some Trident subs stayed loyal to the US.

It's kind of critical, at least logic-wise.  These are all good questions, perhaps better addressed in the books, but the show HAS dropped little tidbits, here and there, often missed, through the years.

Would it be better (or at least clearer) if the show flat out explained all these military issues?   Maybe so.  That's where Fred, spilling to Truello (and the world) would/could be extremely useful, not just to those against Gilead, but to those of us watching this show.  Lay it all out for us.

Meanwhile, I think discussing all of this would be great, in probably the blessed be the book readers thread?

ETA

Maybe that is what the show is building up to?  CIA-guy coddling Fred and Serena, doing everything he can to get Fred to spill?  That's why he's working Serena so hard, pretending to be her friend, on her side.  He may feel that Serena is his best bet to get Fred to tell all he knows.  Letting June in there to scare Serena was a great good cop/bad cop move?

ETA

Please join in with facts and specs about all the military questions here.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Umbelina
link

[Bannon]

15 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I think this would be a good discussion, but I honestly can't remember how much the show went into this.  If you'd like, perhaps take it over to the "blessed be the book readers" thread and we could discuss it there freely.  The military issue is talked about in the books, and has been on the show (but not as clearly.)

Conquered and abused and raped, tortured, the survivors of watching friends and family members be murdered are of course damaged.  Wanting revenge or justice (depending on which way you view it) may make them do horrific things (or things that seem horrific to the other side.)  For example, June poisoning all of those commanders at Jezebels.

One person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist.  War is hell.  The victors write the history.

So, no, I don't think June and Serena are, or will ever be, on the same level of horridness.

It's kind of critical, at least logic-wise.  These are all good questions, perhaps better addressed in the books, but the show HAS dropped little tidbits, here and there, often missed, through the years.

Would it be better (or at least clearer) if the show flat out explained all these military issues?   Maybe so.  That's where Fred, spilling to Truello (and the world) would/could be extremely useful, not just to those against Gilead, but to those of us watching this show.  Lay it all out for us.

Meanwhile, I think discussing all of this would be great, in probably the blessed be the book readers thread?

ETA

Maybe that is what the show is building up to?  CIA-guy coddling Fred and Serena, doing everything he can to get Fred to spill?  That's why he's working Serena so hard, pretending to be her friend, on her side.  He may feel that Serena is his best bet to get Fred to tell all he knows.  Letting June in there to scare Serena was a great good cop/bad cop move?

ETA

Please join in with facts and specs about all the military questions here.

I'm fine with the show not getting too far into the strategic setting. There's only so many episodes paid for, and the audience can employ it's imagination.

[ctmd]

I have really enjoyed this season, especially with June in Canada. She's an imbecile for taunting Serena however. Perhaps it hasn't fully dawned on her that if Fred was able to impregnate Serena, then June's baby may not actually be Nick's. If Fred is the father, he now has some claim over the child, which is the LAST thing June would want. Had she kept her mouth shut, most likely, Fred and Serena would have focused on only Serena's pregnancy, and cut their losses with June. 

[Quickbeam]

On 5/27/2021 at 8:48 PM, Baltimore Betty said:

When June was trying to collect herself at the market she was sitting under a giant sign with eggs on it, kind of ironic since her worth in Gilead was placed on her eggs/fertility.

I thought June was heading for a potato chip melt down like Robin Williams did in a coffee aisle in some movie where he played a Russian musician who was seeking asylum in the US.

 

Moscow on the Hudson. 

[BluBarbi98]

On 5/27/2021 at 12:08 PM, Lukeysboat said:

Nobody else has mentioned this so I’m sure I’m missing something—but how are we certain that Nicole is Nick’s daughter and not Fred’s? Did the ceremony stop long enough that Fred could not be the father? 

 

On 5/27/2021 at 12:24 PM, EllaWycliffe said:

I think that's technically unknown at this point. Fred was having sex with June at the same time she was having sex with Nick and Nick and Fred have a similar physical look.

This may have already been answered but I would assume that the US/Canadian governments would have performed a paternity test once Fred was captured. If they didn't initiate it, wouldn't Fred?

[Umbelina]

Well, not a single character has mentioned this on the show, so I think it's a non issue, and frankly, I think they have enough to get on with.

Who knows though, they may dick around with that storyline, in the end though, I'd bet it will still be Nick's kid.

[JasonCC]

That house isn't the same one Luke was living in from the very beginning is it? He had a fellow refugee (blonde woman) roommate then. 

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, JasonCC said:

That house isn't the same one Luke was living in from the very beginning is it? He had a fellow refugee (blonde woman) roommate then. 

No, that was an apartment, not a house.

[Dobian]

On 5/27/2021 at 8:46 AM, LadyAmalthea said:

I’m actually kind of shocked at some of the commentary here. Luke told June to “wait” and she not only ignored him, she put her hand over his mouth and kept going despite his clear discomfort. The episode ended with June’s voiceover (ostensibly) about Serena saying “she‘ll rape you” as Luke looks at June with unease. There’s no ambiguity for me.

One thing I realized, I don't need to ever watch June having sex again.

[Anela]

I actually felt a bit of culture shock, just watching.  Loved her smack down of Serena (who  also had the gall to refer to HER baby as hers alone). Joseph Fiennes is so slimy, I can barely look at him.  
 

I was also unsettled by the sex scene.  

[mostlylurking]

I thought it was nice that June mentioned Nick when talking with little baby Nichole.

Loved Emily, June, Moira and Rita ragging on Serena. “She looks like shit too.”  “Oooh yeah she really does.”  Ha. Her hair does look god awful. Do they not have shampoo in that luxury prison?

I also really enjoyed the Serena/June confrontation.  It was satisfying and deserved.  When/if Serena has her baby, does she really think she will get to raise it?  Won’t she be in prison?

Its pretty funny that refugees get put up in a five star hotel and the prison is nicer than my first apartment. Oh Canada. 

I didn’t like the sex scene at all.  I know everyone copes differently with trauma, but I just can’t understand how these women would want to have sex ever again after all the brutality they’ve endured.

Rita and Janine are my favorites so I am really going to need a Janine update hopefully soon.

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by mostlylurking

[Tyro49]

On 5/26/2021 at 3:10 AM, 853fisher said:

In what world does Tuello get a call in the dead of night from his intelligence asset, asking to meet with his political prisoner ASAP, and think this is a simply dandy idea, never mind their history? She’s clearly got her head on straight and there’s no way this could go wrong. He’ll be next door if you need him, ladies, have fun!

IDK why, of all the things we’ve been asked to suspend disbelief over, this got me so much, but it did. I think the show is exploring some sophisticated ideas well, and I’ve wanted to see this side of things for a while. But this scene just didn’t need the contrived circumstances to give it some oomph, great overhead shot aside. It took me out of things when I should have been in that conversation. Anyway, I do hope June hasn’t made more trouble for herself with that catharsis.

I thought she was going to punch Serena in the stomach to induce a miscarriage!