S03.E10 Radical

[jabRI]

Did anyone ever explain how the niece from the Middle East 'knew' the cancer patient?  Was she just trying to make a generalization, show empathy? It just came out of left field to me

[kicotan]

The Lenape have a complex and interesting history.  Of course, the show wouldn’t include that into the narrative...because skimming an issue apparently gets them virtue signaling credits.

There actually is a program offered at three universities:

https://www.ihs.gov/dhps/dhpsgrants/indiansmedicineprogram/

Here in California, several tribes have made significant financial strides for the betterment of their members.  Their revenue from gaming has been distributed to the tribe as well as reinvested in other business ventures.  For example, the San Manuel Band of Mission Indians just purchased the Palms casino in Las Vegas for 650$ million cash.  They also distribute profits to each member of the tribe.  Estimates range between $25,000  - $40,000 per month, per member, so medical school would be well within their financial capability, without having any special program offered for financial assistance.

Granted, not every tribe is blessed with federal recognition and/or gaming revenue so the let’s paint-everyone-with-the-same-brush technique of writing on this show is tiresome.

Speaking of which...Saffy should get to choose what is right for her body just as any transgender person  or pregnant female of her age would get to choose for their body.  Depending on the procedure, parental consent is no longer required for those under the age of 18.  For some reason, psychiatric consult is required for some, but not all.  States having different statutes regarding the issues just cloud it, but this show isn’t going to delve into nuances.

[tinderbox]

I FFd more than half of this episode.  I’m not sure I can take much more of this show.  

[renatae]

On 5/4/2021 at 9:19 PM, ams1001 said:

I'm sorry, this "I'd rather die than be treated here unless you make up for 400 years of history because the hospital happens to be named after the people who took our land" is just too much. And Max is gonna "rectify" it. By renaming the hospital after the native people in question. Simple as that. Sure.

Besides how ridiculous the proposed solutions are for way too complex situations for both this episode and the one two weeks ago, it's becoming difficult to see so much real life problem content. Max finally came up with a possibly effective proposal in the end, with the NA scholarship program, but does he really think it will be funded just because he wants it?

I watch these shows for entertainment, and I don't at all mind addressing pressing issues such as police brutality, etc, but so many of the plots of shows I watch have been monopolized in recent weeks that I'm beginning to feel the need for some sort of hard hat protection. New Amsterdam, Grey's, 911, Station 19 (which I barely tolerate anyway) to name just a few.

I like that Max is such a crusader for progress and rectification, but the latest issues are even more outside his bailiwick than usual.

Edited May 8, 2021 by renatae

[renatae]

On 5/5/2021 at 8:55 AM, ams1001 said:

And when the wife said she had parrots, I said "Psittacosis! Call Dr. House's team!"

LOL, me, too, except I neglected to come up with the dream team.

[renatae]

On 5/5/2021 at 4:59 PM, jabRI said:

That struck me as bizarre that she just 'shows up' after one conversation with mini-Kapoor (never remember her name).

Which reminds me, bring back Kapoor. Please. I love the character and the plot lines involving him.

ETA: I just read the post about Anupam's wife having multiple myeloma. How sad.

Edited May 7, 2021 by renatae

[AnnA]

I don't bother watching this show (and a few others) live anymore because they've gotten so bad that I need to use the FF feature more and more.   I can honestly say that there was only one scene I enjoyed and that was when the young doctor, Agnes (I think) fired the self absorbed lady doctor hired to replace Dr. Kapoor.  

I dont know how long I'm going to continue watching.  I'm assuming there's only a couple of episodes left this season.  They'll have to do a lot better to get me back next season.

Edited May 8, 2021 by AnnA

[bros402]

23 hours ago, renatae said:

Besides how ridiculous the proposed solutions are for way too complex situations for both this episode and the one two weeks ago, it's becoming difficult to see so much real life problem content. Max finally came up with a possibly effective proposal in the end, but does he really think it will be funded just because he wants it?

I watch these shows for entertainment, and I don't at all mind addressing pressing issues such as police brutality, etc, but so many of the plots of shows I watch has been monopolized in recent weeks that I'm beginning to feel the need for some sort of hard hat protection. New Amsterdam, Grey's, 911, Station 19 (which I barely tolerate anyway) to name just a few.

I like that Max is such a crusader for progress and rectification, but the latest issues are even more outside his bailiwick than usual.

I think the native american scholarship program is actually a reasonable solution for Max - especially if he tells the board and the city "Yeah, we don't have a single Native American doctor here at NA - I talked to some NA community members and they want to be doctors, but don't have the money to do med school"

[circumvent]

13 hours ago, bros402 said:

I think the native american scholarship program is actually a reasonable solution for Max - especially if he tells the board and the city "Yeah, we don't have a single Native American doctor here at NA - I talked to some NA community members and they want to be doctors, but don't have the money to do med school"

Yes, I agree. The problem is how many loops and turns Max had to take before get to that solution, which I think is pretty standard in businesses. This show does overdo in the drama department, with anything that relates to Max, The Savior Of All Social Causes.

[jabRI]

I think Season 1 was better, where Max just had to get himself healthy and fix the hospital.  Taking on every social cause of the week is just ridiculous.

[KLovestoShop]

I’m getting tired of nearly every show taking on social justice issues, but NA has really gone beyond.  We don’t need to be lectured by Max on every social problem, and I’m sick of him coming up with “solutions” to each.  And all in one hour, or one day, when going by the script.

After this year of pandemic and rioting, all we want is to be entertained, plain and simple.  Is that too much to ask?  I want NA to tackle medical issues, and even some personal issues of the staff, but not constant virtual signaling.  If you want to crusade, focus on medical issues.  I’ve stopped watching some of my most favorite prime time shows live so that if they start lecturing,  I can delete or fast forward.   I think if people were being honest, a vast majority of them would say they feel the same. 
 

As for the Native American story, my house abutted land owned by Yavapai Nation, and they have a huge casino and resort.  Each member of the nation receive a very large monthly payout and they provide college scholarships to anyone who wants to attend college.  Every member gets a 5 figure monthly stipend, free from taxes. 

Edited May 9, 2021 by KLovestoShop

[Emily Thrace]

2 hours ago, KLovestoShop said:

As for the Native American story, my house abutted land owned by Yavapai Nation, and they have a huge casino and resort.  Each member of the nation receive a very large monthly payout and they provide college scholarships to anyone who wants to attend college.  Every member gets a 5 figure monthly stipend, free from taxes. 

Most Native Americans live in extreme poverty unheard of in the rest of Canada and the US. The Navajo nation has double the unemployment rate of the rest of the US and had only 200 hospital beds for nearly 200000 people when Covid hit. I could post a wall of text of similar sad statistics from other reserves and tribes. One tribe having money doesn't erase 500 years of genocide. It doesn't make it easier when someone calls you a squaw. It doesn't erase the generational scars of residential school. Or bring back our land and way of life. I'm not sure how you missed the point of the episode so completely when Max beat it over everyone's head so hard.

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Emily Thrace

[bros402]

10 hours ago, jabRI said:

I think Season 1 was better, where Max just had to get himself healthy and fix the hospital.  Taking on every social cause of the week is just ridiculous.

The first season was definitely better - but I am happy this season isn't focusing on cancer, since that usually means that they have a copious amount of vomiting per episode. I like that we are avoiding that this season, since I am watching it while feeling like crap from chemo.

[circumvent]

17 hours ago, KLovestoShop said:

After this year of pandemic and rioting, all we want is to be entertained, plain and simple

Yeah, if only the virus listened and the police stopped murdering black people... One part of this is actually doable, but it is not going to happen. To me, disturbing the comfortable is a great way of spreading at least some awareness. Protests are not the cause, they are the consequence of things most people prefer to ignore as long as it doesn't change anything in their daily lives. It is a way of "forcing" the exercise of empathy on people.

17 hours ago, KLovestoShop said:

Each member of the nation receive a very large monthly payout and they provide college scholarships to anyone who wants to attend college.  Every member gets a 5 figure monthly stipend, free from taxes.

I don't know where you got this information from but it is simply not true. If it were, Native people would not have the highest per-capita rate of Covid, which shows how the state neglects them. The "every member" you mentioned can be about a small, very small number of so-called leaders. Every group of people has grifters in them. Natives are not immune to vices.One thing is a fact: if they are getting all this money, they are not sharing the wealth

[AnnA]

19 hours ago, KLovestoShop said:

 

After this year of pandemic and rioting, all we want is to be entertained, plain and simple.  

 

I agree!    I don't want or need to be force fed the social issues of the day.   

I'm well aware of them.  

Edited May 9, 2021 by AnnA

[DearEvette]

Except the show has always married medical issues with social issues.  Mostly how health care is impacted and sometimes interfered with because of the social issues.  It is just not as well written this season and lot a more heavy handed.  But in season one alone we got multiple eps about the dehumanization and poor treatment of prison inmates. The byzantine nature of the insurance industry.,  How vets are not being well served. The opioid epidemic,. Homelessness. The high cost of medical care and the difference in treatment and attention based on the wealth gap.

[circumvent]

18 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Except the show has always married medical issues with social issues.  Mostly how health care is impacted and sometimes interfered with because of the social issues.  It is just not as well written this season and lot a more heavy handed.  But in season one alone we got multiple eps about the dehumanization and poor treatment of prison inmates. The byzantine nature of the insurance industry.,  How vets are not being well served. The opioid epidemic,. Homelessness. The high cost of medical care and the difference in treatment and attention based on the wealth gap.

You are so right. For all of those issues, most of us can more or less "wash our hands" - like saying "So much injustice, but I have no part on them, there is nothing much that I can do". So it is not uncomfortable, it doesn't make people squirm and get tired of watching them. Blame an elusive being or thing, move on, enjoy the show, take a break from "reality".

Because we are reaching a tipping point, and most shows are using that in their plots, it gets hard to avoiding a social responsibility, or at least acknowledge that there is a tipping point.

I agree that the show has the right idea but the development is poor. 

[IDreamofJoaquin]

I feel like the show really jumped the shark here.  

[cameron]

On 5/6/2021 at 12:08 AM, yourmomiseasy said:

This fucking show 🙄  It didn't even get to the opening credits before I was wondering if I was going to make it through the episode. 

Seeing the new sign right above the BLM floor painting made me LOL.  I wonder how long it will be until that lobby is renamed the Max Goodwin White Savior Hall of Virtue Signaling.

At this point I am certain the writers are trolling progressives.

So sick of that attitude.

[LadyIrony]

I only watch this sometimes due to a friend who likes it. The rampant stupidity never ceases to amaze me. I kind of want to see the show as a parody of Cancel Culture hysteria but I know that the writers etc take it all very seriously. 

And what if they change the name of the hospital? Given Native American's didn't have hospitals in the Western sense, wouldn't the building itself still be a reminder of their ancestors defeat?!

[auntiemel]

Bright spot in the episode: When Floyd is listening to Midnight Train to Georgia.

Floyd: What do you think this song really means?

Bloom: I think the title gets us most of the way there.

😂😂😂

[statsgirl]

Nice to see Tantoo Cardinal on my screen. Her character though is, as over the top as Max.

On 5/7/2021 at 1:44 AM, renatae said:

Max finally came up with a possibly effective proposal in the end, with the NA scholarship program, but does he really think it will be funded just because he wants it?

Here's another one:  there are a lot of things in First Nations medicine that can be incorporated in Western medicine to make it better. One of my favourites is that the patient isn't alone, the community is responsible for helping with treatment.

A series of workshops and monitoring would be faster, cheaper and more effective than funding two or three Native doctors who graduate 6 - 8 years later, and would avoid pissing people off by renaming the hospital. But Max never stops to think when he's saving the world.

[connieinnc]

On 5/4/2021 at 11:17 PM, Madding crowd said:

I really can’t take anymore of Max playing hero. How does the head of a hospital have time to spend days on one patient. The professor was ridiculous; if you want to die then just leave. 
The ending with the reveal that Iggy’s stalker was his partner’s patient would be a fun twist but why would a therapist bring home a hat left by a patient? Wouldn’t you leave it in your office so you can remember to return it?

The polygamous people were annoying too. I still adore Ryan Eggold so I guess I’m stuck watching. Please no more heroics for a week or two.

I get the impression that Martin works from a home office.

[CB-LXX]

I'm 4 episodes behind and I decided last night to start catching up. 10 minutes in and I was done. I just couldn't with Max on this episode. I don't mind that he wants to do what's right, but he jumps head first into "solutions" without actually thinking them through first. Max has become a caricature. I'm not sure if the showrunners are actually trying to help spread the message about all these things, or if they are actually mocking the people who try to get change to happen, the activists, etc. Because making Max look stupid week after week can't be for nothing, right?

I don't know if I will continue the rest of the season, but it's definitely on it's last legs for me.

[CB-LXX]

On 5/5/2021 at 11:08 PM, yourmomiseasy said:

This fucking show 🙄  It didn't even get to the opening credits before I was wondering if I was going to make it through the episode. 

Seeing the new sign right above the BLM floor painting made me LOL.  I wonder how long it will be until that lobby is renamed the Max Goodwin White Savior Hall of Virtue Signaling.

At this point I am certain the writers are trolling progressives.

I replied before seeing this, but yes, I feel this exactly! They are definitely trolling!

[bros402]

14 hours ago, Kenadi O said:

I'm 4 episodes behind and I decided last night to start catching up. 10 minutes in and I was done. I just couldn't with Max on this episode. I don't mind that he wants to do what's right, but he jumps head first into "solutions" without actually thinking them through first. Max has become a caricature. I'm not sure if the showrunners are actually trying to help spread the message about all these things, or if they are actually mocking the people who try to get change to happen, the activists, etc. Because making Max look stupid week after week can't be for nothing, right?

I don't know if I will continue the rest of the season, but it's definitely on it's last legs for me.

Hate watch with us!

[SnarkySheep]

On 5/4/2021 at 10:19 PM, ams1001 said:

Aaaand...I was tired of the fawning over the new doctor before the elevator door even (finally) closed. Iggy is so unprofessional.

I would have LOVED a tiny scene with the random people in the elevator in the moments after the door closed, all who TF was that...

On 5/5/2021 at 7:10 PM, KaveDweller said:

I noticed the new sign for the lobby is right next to the black lives matter painting on the floor. I hope by the end of the season that room is filled with various symbols of all the causes Max picks up each episode. 

I hope he can find some construction workers to enlarge that lobby then, stat...

Honestly, all I can think of every time I see that yellow BLM on the ground is Reynolds flying onto his back. Max is lucky Reynolds didn't decide he wants to own the hospital.

On 5/5/2021 at 8:56 PM, txhorns79 said:

I was a little confused about the gastric bypass teenager.  I thought there were fairly specific requirements for that surgery, specifically when it is being done on someone so young.  The girl looked overweight to me, but nothing so substantial that would make her an obvious candidate for that surgery.  

Same. I'm no expert on the subject, but I would imagine people seeking gastric bypass to be in the ballpark of Chrissy Metz, not this girl or her mom. I'd also think that Iggy or mom would have said something about how she's probably still not done growing and her adult body may still be changing.

[SnarkySheep]

On 5/8/2021 at 12:58 AM, bros402 said:

I think the native american scholarship program is actually a reasonable solution for Max - especially if he tells the board and the city "Yeah, we don't have a single Native American doctor here at NA - I talked to some NA community members and they want to be doctors, but don't have the money to do med school"

The problem there, however, is that Max only got anecdotal evidence from a handful of people, which isn't really worth much. IMO he would have gotten farther by checking to see how many job applicants at New Amsterdam in recent years identified as Native American. Is the problem a lack of applicants or are they just not being hired for whatever reasons? etc.

Honestly, I would have loved to know just how much that professor actually tried to do herself, other than teach her classes and blame Max/the hospital/all of white people for 400 years of injustice. Whether or not you agree with his methods, Max usually does try his best to actively fix or change the various problems he encounters. You can't accuse the guy of not caring or not trying. But from what we saw, it didn't seem the professor did much except complain and expect her words to make other people change the world.

[bros402]

8 hours ago, SnarkySheep said:

I would have LOVED a tiny scene with the random people in the elevator in the moments after the door closed, all who TF was that...

I hope he can find some construction workers to enlarge that lobby then, stat...

Honestly, all I can think of every time I see that yellow BLM on the ground is Reynolds flying onto his back. Max is lucky Reynolds didn't decide he wants to own the hospital.

Same. I'm no expert on the subject, but I would imagine people seeking gastric bypass to be in the ballpark of Chrissy Metz, not this girl or her mom. I'd also think that Iggy or mom would have said something about how she's probably still not done growing and her adult body may still be changing.

I believe with gastric bypass, you need to be beneath a certain weight - since it can be risky because of things like anesthesia and being too large for imaging.

7 hours ago, SnarkySheep said:

The problem there, however, is that Max only got anecdotal evidence from a handful of people, which isn't really worth much. IMO he would have gotten farther by checking to see how many job applicants at New Amsterdam in recent years identified as Native American. Is the problem a lack of applicants or are they just not being hired for whatever reasons? etc.

Honestly, I would have loved to know just how much that professor actually tried to do herself, other than teach her classes and blame Max/the hospital/all of white people for 400 years of injustice. Whether or not you agree with his methods, Max usually does try his best to actively fix or change the various problems he encounters. You can't accuse the guy of not caring or not trying. But from what we saw, it didn't seem the professor did much except complain and expect her words to make other people change the world.

Yeah, but Max could've used those anecdotes to tell the board "hey let's see if it is worth establishing a Native American scholarship! Let's try it with one person!"

The professor seemed to be one who backed up her speeches with actually protesting, like those nuns who protest nuclear energy.

[christie]

On 6/30/2021 at 8:44 AM, bros402 said:

I believe with gastric bypass, you need to be beneath a certain weight - since it can be risky because of things like anesthesia and being too large for imaging.

You need to weigh less than 450lbs, have a BMI greater than 40 or a BMI between 35 and 40 along with an obesity related medical condition. 

[statsgirl]

Ccu

On 6/29/2021 at 5:49 PM, SnarkySheep said:

Whether or not you agree with his methods, Max usually does try his best to actively fix or change the various problems he encounters. You can't accuse the guy of not caring or not trying. 

Without a doubt the guy cares and tries to fix things. The problem is that his solutions are either out of his bailiwick or too often rridiculos and so not really helping.  Renaming the hospital will only cause resentment and a backlash on Native Americans .

Creating a scholarship is a good idea even though it will take 10 - 15 years to produce one Native American attending. A more immediate effect is to put in a series of cultural competence workshops to educate hospital staff with a cultural affairs officer that patients can turn to if they need help.