S03.E18: Cheating, Revelations and a Box of Doll Heads

[qtpye]

10 hours ago, chediavolo said:

I did the same. You see classmates getting a free ride from their, more financially well off, parents all around you, and you just assume it is a given. At that age many of us don’t realize a college fund is impossible when your parents or in my case , a widowed parent, is just Getting  by paying the bills and any kind of savings is a luxury. My own child had the same mistaken notion & resentment for years until they were mature enough to realize what a fantasy this is for many people. And AMEN to too poor to be able to pay for college and not poor enough for help. The story of my life & a big problem in America. Middle class my ass! 

 

10 hours ago, chediavolo said:

Same thing happened to me. And I was also in a very highly populated area. My counselors were shit they were absolutely no help from getting me the classes I wanted in high school to talking to me about college.  I knew nothing about how to go about getting financial aid.  I finally figured it out and was turned down because of too poor but not poor enough aspect. I had no one to talk to about it. my friends were helped by their parents ortheir counselors or whatever. My father was older and working his ass off and had no time for such things so I was left out in the cold. I’m still very bitter about it. I wish I would have written a letter to the school and told them what piece of shit useless counselors they have and how I got no guidance through school. 
and as for Becky yes community college was looked upon sort of like trade school was back in the day. It shouldn’t have been, but things were different and there really there was was not a lot of guidance from guidance counselor‘s for some of us & parents were not-as involved and we were just not taught the facts. 

 

5 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

I graduated from high school in the mid 70s, 3rd in my class.  Did not get any money from our state as we weren’t poor enough.  Which back then meant both parents worked.  We didn’t have any money.  My school counselor didn’t suggest a single thing about getting money.   My parents  paid room and board and I paid tuition and books and all else. My chosen state college did qualify me for 10 hours of student work a week  and I got a government loan one year and a bank loan the next semester. I dropped our after first semester sophomore year because my parents couldn’t pay spring room and board and I didn’t know how to come up with any more money.  There might have been scholarships available but no one told me about them. 
we called our community college ‘West Main High’ - meaning it was high school ish.  After a few years, I transferred my college credits there, took 3 classes and got an associates degree. 

Families like the Conners are why colleges now have First Gen programs for students whose parents didn’t go to college.  The colleges help the students navigate thru topics like financial aid, etc.  it’s now recognized that not all parents understand the hoops to jump thru. 
 

Becky and Dan are similar to many families when it comes to Mark( the older).  Dad always blames the offspring’s significant other for all the offsprings issues.  The offspring never wants to admit their deceased spouse wasn’t perfect until forced to say so.   

The show really messed with the timeline of Marks death  by making Harris so young while keeping everyone else the normal  chronological  age.  Was Becky about 24 when Mark died or in her early 30s by this shows’  reckoning? I have a couple of cousins who lost their spouse in their late 20s suddenly.  They were indeed emotional messes for years.  Their lives did take a downward spiral.  

 

 

5 hours ago, UYI said:

She didn't want to go to community college because in her teenage mind, she thought she would just keep working at the Buy n'Bag grocery store and "wind up just like YOU!" (Roseanne). It could have just been a spur of the moment reaction after finding out there was no money to send her to a "typical" college, but it was her initial reaction at the time.

I do believe she at least got her GED, though, after moving to Minneapolis. 

 

3 hours ago, Janie430 said:

So I remember that Becky had the financial aid worksheets in front of her, but because they relied on her parents' income the previous year, she didn't qualify for full aid.  And she did intend to go to community college in Minnesota, after she got her GED, but I believe Mark lost his job as a union mechanic, and she decided to go to work instead.  I think in Becky's mind, when she left for Minneapolis, it was a choice between "community college with the man she wanted to marry who has a good union job, out of her parent's house" and "community college while living at home and dealing with your parent's stress of being unemployed and unhappy".  If Mark had kept his job in Minneapolis, and if Becky hadn't been so stubborn about trying to turn him into a better provider, she probably would have gotten her associate's degree back then.

I remember that the college admission process thought my dad could contribute a ridiculous amount of money for my education. I ended up getting a partial scholarship and working. I did have to get loans to get through law school.

2 hours ago, Janie430 said:

Also, I still remember Mark tying David's tie in episode 8-23 the wedding, when he told David that their parents were bastards and that the Connors were their family now.  And he said that his dad had taught him how to tie a bow tie, and that it was the only thing he ever taught him, and that it was the only thing their dad could have done for him, and that David didn't need him any more.  It was such good acting.  Glenn Quinn rocked it.  In that moment, he was a a grown man, and a punk kid who was looking out for his little brother, and it was one of the best moments in the original series, in my opinion.

I hate in this show that the Healy boys are the reasons that the Connor girls have failed. Mark had his issues but he was a hard worker and he died. The truth is David screwed Darlene way more than Mark messed up Becky. David abandoned his family, still is MIA, and seem to have provided no financial or emotional support whatsoever.

49 minutes ago, Arcadiasw said:

Did Becky work in Minnesota? If Mark worked as a mechanic what did Becky do all day? It shouldn't have taken her that long to get her GED. While Mark worked, Becky could've been working after she got her GED to build some type of savings to go to college and probably gotten financial aid or scholarship that way.

I remember when Roseanne visited them in Minnesota, Roseanne actually scolded Becky for sitting around all day while her husband worked his butt off to send her to school. It was the first time I realized that outside of the Connor bubble that Becky was not particularly disciplined. We all know that Roseanne hated Mark so it was a big deal that she realized this and complimented him.

40 minutes ago, RocknRollZombie said:

I feel like that would have been the more possible scenario more in tune with the original personalities of Becky and Mark, but as we all know Becky and Mark’s personalities and traits were changed when they came back and it was Null Becky in place of OG Becky and I feel like just the way that the conners did to have everyone one and their dog living in the same house. The writers from the original must have also had that spark of hey let’s keep them all in the same place/under one roof with using some what no so thought out reasons. 

I don't know why they thought that Chalk's Becky had to be a bimbo.  Becky's college arc was one of the most compelling things about the original series.

[chediavolo]

6 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

I graduated from high school in the mid 70s, 3rd in my class.  Did not get any money from our state as we weren’t poor enough.  Which back then meant both parents worked.  We didn’t have any money.  My school counselor didn’t suggest a single thing about getting money.   My parents  paid room and board and I paid tuition and books and all else. My chosen state college did qualify me for 10 hours of student work a week  and I got a government loan one year and a bank loan the next semester. I dropped our after first semester sophomore year because my parents couldn’t pay spring room and board and I didn’t know how to come up with any more money.  There might have been scholarships available but no one told me about them. 
we called our community college ‘West Main High’ - meaning it was high school ish.  After a few years, I transferred my college credits there, took 3 classes and got an associates degree. 

Families like the Conners are why colleges now have First Gen programs for students whose parents didn’t go to college.  The colleges help the students navigate thru topics like financial aid, etc.  it’s now recognized that not all parents understand the hoops to jump thru. 
 

Becky and Dan are similar to many families when it comes to Mark( the older).  Dad always blames the offspring’s significant other for all the offsprings issues.  The offspring never wants to admit their deceased spouse wasn’t perfect until forced to say so.   

The show really messed with the timeline of Marks death  by making Harris so young while keeping everyone else the normal  chronological  age.  Was Becky about 24 when Mark died or in her early 30s by this shows’  reckoning? I have a couple of cousins who lost their spouse in their late 20s suddenly.  They were indeed emotional messes for years.  Their lives did take a downward spiral.  

 

I guess I’m not the only one that got screwed by high school college counselors etc. by them not helping those of us who were clueless about the college process and whose parents either didn’t care or were too busy to help figure it out  😞Unfortunately I did not have the personality to cry out for help to seek someone to guide me to Find out what I should do. So I just gave up took menial jobs and have regretted it ever since. And the whole working class “you should be able to contribute for college  so you get no financial help” is the biggest bunch of bullshit.  we were living paycheck to paycheck,  my father was busting his ass trying to raise three children alone and we got nothing.  it seems that’s the way it still is today. I may not be as trashy as the Conners but I do understand some of their situation. 

[qtpye]

On 4/22/2021 at 1:14 PM, RocknRollZombie said:

There is a podcast that she did where she talks about why she left the second time, and the atmosphere on the set and this tension with Roseanne. And how Roseanne was being disruptive while she would be doing scenes with Glenn once she came back for S8. Also she opens up about something else that happened to her while she was starring in the show. The podcast is called ‘Kill me now with Judy gold’ ep 54 from 2016 is the one with Lecy. 

This was very interesting...thanks for recommending it.

[Egg McMuffin]

I enjoyed this episode, simply because Lecy was so great in it. And she was great in the original, too. For example, in the episode where Becky finds out there is no college fund - which other posters have commented about - she did excellent work. I never understood why she didn’t get more attention back then.

I don’t believe the network brought Lecy back in season 8 of the original series over Roseanne’s objections. She was in full control of the show at that time. And I remember her giving a quote to the press about how they all loved Sarah Chalke, but she didn’t grow up with them and how Lecy did.

I will have to listen to that podcast where Lecy speaks about leaving for the second time. All I’ve heard her say publicly about her return in season 8 is that “it wasn’t the same” as it had been for her before.

My impression is that Tom Arnold, while credited as an executive producer of the show, was not a major creative force even if he had a lot of control since he was married to the star. He did write an episode or two. But aside from Roseanne Barr herself, I also give a lot of credit to Bob Myer, the head writer and showrunner for seasons 3 and 4. Those, to me, are the best seasons.

[nilyank]

I think it so much easier for Dan to blame Mark and be angry at someone whom he had complicated history who also isn't around to defend himself. Otherwise, he would have to put some of that blame on Becky. It was Becky's choice to marry Mark and as it was her choice to remain married to him.

Becky was married to Mark for years including time when they were financially stable enough for her to take a few course at community or a state college. They didn't have the additional financial responsiblity of children or had any major debt such as a home mortgage/college loans.

When Mark died, Becky went into a tailspin where she couldn't see her way out and coped by drinking and sleeping with different men. When she finally started putting her life together was when she stopped drinking, focused on being a mom and making plans to run again The Lunch Box. But she still had not dealt honestly why she developed her drinking problem and she relapsed when she saw her life could have taken a different path if she made other choices in the previous two decades.

[peacheslatour]

35 minutes ago, nilyank said:

I think it so much easier for Dan to blame Mark and be angry at someone whom he had complicated history who also isn't around to defend himself. Otherwise, he would have to put some of that blame on Becky. It was Becky's choice to marry Mark and as it was her choice to remain married to him.

Becky was married to Mark for years including time when they were financially stable enough for her to take a few course at community or a state college. They didn't have the additional financial responsiblity of children or had any major debt such as a home mortgage/college loans.

When Mark died, Becky went into a tailspin where she couldn't see her way out and coped by drinking and sleeping with different men. When she finally started putting her life together was when she stopped drinking, focused on being a mom and making plans to run again The Lunch Box. But she still had not dealt honestly why she developed her drinking problem and she relapsed when she saw her life could have taken a different path if she made other choices in the previous two decades.

The death of her mother was also probably a cataclysmic event. 

[Ebau]

During the Roseanne years, I wasn't particularly impressed with Becky's character. At that time, Darlene seemed to steal all of the thunder. Perhaps it was because Lecy tended to delivery her lines in a snarky, sullen manner, which is typical for teenagers, I suppose, but annoying to listen to.

However, over the past couple of seasons, I have really grown to like Becky's character and I like how Lecy plays her. You really want to root for Becky, no matter how much she fucks up. And it looks like Lecy is having an absolute blast playing her this time around. I find that I am mostly watching for her. And for Mark, of course, who is trying so hard to rise above it all. Plus, he's so fucking cute, isn't he? Like a puppy.

But this episode was epic for Lecy. Despite the ret-conning many of you have commented on, I thought her performance was just wonderful. You really felt her pain. Hell, even I puddled up a little during that scene between Becky and Dan. But this is one that I will definitely watch again and again over the years.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Ebau

[Kel Varnsen]

I liked DJ's line about how he doesn't want Becky to feel bad about his success. Although I wish they wouldn't play it up as him as a joke. Since by pretty much any measure, he is the most successful member of his family. With his wife being in the military, just the fact that his household had health insurance is huge. Not to mention the two stead jobs, not living in his childhood home thing. 

The whole young Mark thing was super stupid though. It has been awhile, but I have written many exams over the time. And unless you get a concept, knowing a formula isn't going to help much. And like others said, what Darlene wrote is just a quadratic equation but not the formula that lets you solve for x.

[Snow Apple]

24 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I liked DJ's line about how he doesn't want Becky to feel bad about his success. Although I wish they wouldn't play it up as him as a joke. Since by pretty much any measure, he is the most successful member of his family. With his wife being in the military, just the fact that his household had health insurance is huge. Not to mention the two stead jobs, not living in his childhood home thing. 

I feel the same way. It frustrates me that the writers think you're only successful if you go to college, own your own business, or have a white collar job.

I wish they'll explore DJ's issues from the 10th season regarding this time in the military, or more of his life now. We don't even know how he ended up marrying the little girl he refused to kiss in the original show. 

But I doubt we'll get any of that since it's now the Darlene Show. I'm surprised Becky is given so many storylines which outshines Darlene.

[qtpye]

On 4/23/2021 at 7:37 PM, nilyank said:

I think it so much easier for Dan to blame Mark and be angry at someone whom he had complicated history who also isn't around to defend himself. Otherwise, he would have to put some of that blame on Becky. It was Becky's choice to marry Mark and as it was her choice to remain married to him.

Becky was married to Mark for years including time when they were financially stable enough for her to take a few course at community or a state college. They didn't have the additional financial responsiblity of children or had any major debt such as a home mortgage/college loans.

When Mark died, Becky went into a tailspin where she couldn't see her way out and coped by drinking and sleeping with different men. When she finally started putting her life together was when she stopped drinking, focused on being a mom and making plans to run again The Lunch Box. But she still had not dealt honestly why she developed her drinking problem and she relapsed when she saw her life could have taken a different path if she made other choices in the previous two decades.

I think what is even worse than that is that he will have to look at himself and the role HE played in Becky choosing to run off with Mark at such a young age.

His drywalling business was steady and he had built it up for many years. Yes, it was not fulfilling to him but think about how many of us are doing nonfulfilling work to pay the bills and make a better life for our families...and this includes those of us with college and graduate degrees.

He knew college was just around the corner and this was not good time to take a huge financial risk. Yes, he liked to fix up bikes but did he do any market research about how much of a demand there was for custom bikes in Lanford? Ziggy occasionally fixed up bikes and sold them to rich dentists/doctors but that would not be enough to sustain a business for the long term. 

Also, when Ziggy bailed on the venture, that should have been the big sign that this was not a good idea.

At the very least he could have waited till Becky at least finished her first year in college.

This brings us to another question....did the Connors actually have a college fund before the bike shop went belly up?

It seems unlikely or if they did have a college fund it would probably not be enough. My guess is that they told Becky they had one and if she got the grades, they could cover most of it. Dan probably had enough for the first semester and planned on taking on more drywalling jobs for the rest. Roseanne would probably do some odd jobs and Becky herself probably would have to work (I worked through college and had partial scholarship).

It would be tight but they could have made if work, particularly if Becky also got some sort of scholarship.

If you rewatch the original episodes (which were excellent) Becky definitely would never have run off with Mark to get married if some her college dreams were still alive. She thought her best option was going to be attending community college and doing dead end jobs like her mother for the rest of her life.

Becky's college arc was one of the most sadly realistic and fascinating arcs in all of television. Even though I am disappointed that they threw Mark under the bus, I can understand the emotions, and am sort of glad it is continuing after all these years. 

It can be an uplifting way to show that it is never to late to get your life together.

 

Edited April 25, 2021 by qtpye

[qtpye]

3 minutes ago, RocknRollZombie said:

I can’t  get through the scenes anymore of the ep. The posthumous blame, the throwing under the bus. It still irks me, even after three days. Still makes me tear up.
 

But it also shows how certain characters even though they are long gone became something that some fans found comfort in and Identified with, and anything that hurts them in a figurative type of way. Is able to bring up emotions in fans of that character. 

There are fans who hated the brothers, who wished they were never part of the show. There are fans who cherish the relationships that were made during the original run. 
 

All in all, people can have their opinions, accept the conners as canon or not. In my case not.

So just like in any other fandom that I have been in. Going to be writing fanfiction, making edits, putting scenes together from the original as a tribute. Taking a break from fandom media.

Curating your fandom experience is okay.

I just hate the tired narrative that women are only failures because they choose the wrong men because it robs female characters of all agency.

I know in the old show Roseanne always blamed marrying Dan for not fulfilling her dreams.

The real Roseanne was very motivated and ambitious. The Roseanne on the show, not so much.

As many people have said Roseanne could have easily taken some computer courses at the community college and just that would have qualified for much better levels of jobs.

She liked to complain about her life but she did nothing to change her circumstances until she started the loose meat business, which again was only able to be done because her sister prodded her and her mother lent her some money.

I would like to know how old Beck was when Mark died...if she was already in her thirties (the real actor died at 32, RIP) than why had she not gone back to school before?

I did find this episode touching and hope she does work out her demons.

[Dreamboat Annie]

So.. in this episode we learn how Mark died.  Funny, but I seem to recall something different.  Back when the revival first began, I could have sworn the explanation given for Mark's death was that he was killed while serving in Afghanistan.  I even recall accepting that as the reason why Darlene would name her own son after him, because otherwise it would have made no sense to me.  Darlene and Mark Sr. did not get along.  She did not think much of him.  She put him down and mocked him relentlessly.  And, Darlene I believe would not have agreed if David had suggested naming their son after his bro (we were shown many times that Darlene "wore the pants" in that relationship).  Even if Darlene and Mark had become closer off camera after the original show ended, I really don't think hitting a dear while riding a motorcycle would be a reason Darlene would name her son after him.  After a war hero?  Yes.  After someone she never liked getting killed riding his motorcycle?  I really don't think so. 

Since no one else remembers this, either it was another show or I'm losing my mind, lol.

 

On 4/23/2021 at 11:56 AM, Brn2bwild said:

(would the trip have happened already?).

 

Spoiler

At the end of this episode, we were shown promos from the two season ending episodes coming in May.  It looked like Darlene was asking Jeff to go to Hawaii with her.  But as we all know, promos can vary greatly from what actually happens in the show.  Maybe she was asking Jeff, but maybe she was asking Ben again.  

  

[Bastet]

45 minutes ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

Back when the revival first began, I could have sworn the explanation given for Mark's death was that he was killed while serving in Afghanistan. 

No, that was something Roseanne Barr said in an interview a long time ago, well before there was a revival.  On the show, we never heard about the circumstances of Mark's death until this episode.

[LBS]

I heard DJ say “my MEDICORE rise” which made me laugh because the delivery was so deadpan.  I still think both meteoric and mediocre are funny line readings. 

I wonder if they ever are going to touch on Dan having a problem with his drinking especially after Roseanne died due to her addiction and his anger towards that. (his hands shaking when he reached for the beer during the kitchen scene when Darlene tells him he can’t pregame before counseling section, multiple episodes in which he is having drinks mid-day and being checked by other characters on it, etc).  I think Dan and Becky are super similar and it’d be interesting to look into that.   They both use humor and avoidance to deflect. 

[kassa]

On 4/24/2021 at 6:03 PM, qtpye said:

This brings us to another question....did the Connors actually have a college fund before the bike shop went belly up?

It seems unlikely or if they did have a college fund it would probably not be enough. My guess is that they told Becky they had one and if she got the grades, they could cover most of it. Dan probably had enough for the first semester and planned on taking on more drywalling jobs for the rest. Roseanne would probably do some odd jobs and Becky herself probably would have to work (I worked through college and had partial scholarship).

It would be tight but they could have made if work, particularly if Becky also got some sort of scholarship.

I wasn't bothered by the concept of a college fund - lots of parents start such a fund with money from infancy, birthday/religious occasion gifts of bonds, etc. The money in the kid's name might be called a college fund in hopes that they'll resume funding it.  So yes, she had a college fund, but they hadn't added any money since Reagan was President and withdrew it for an emergency -- only  in Becky's mind it was something more substantial.

While the storyline was compelling, the writers did overlook the fact that working class kids like Becky would have been applying for every conceivable local scholarship and award. Most of them might only have been $500 or $1000, but would help.  I seem to recall Junior Year being nothing but a steady drumbeat of "start lining up your college plan."

The college discussion would also have come into play with the getting the car storyline.  Getting a car made sense so that she could work after school/evenings/weekends... and if she worked her butt off, could also lead to her putting away a good amount the last couple of summers before college. (All my discretionary funds freshman and sophomore year were from my h.s. Burger King earnings, which were no where near the hours I could have put in if I had a car)

So, did she just drop the grocery store job, or keep it and blow the money on clothes and dates with Mark? 

All of that said, that scene with Dan and Becky in the kitchen is seared in my memory as one of the most realistic emotional moments in tv history. And Lecy just delivered another one with the "I'm so behind" speech. 

 I hope they tone down the character's newfound goofiness as a factor of her alcoholism and that in sobriety she recovers her serious but snarky original recipe demeanor which can drive her to do a lot of catching up. 

And while I'm wishing I want Andy back. Let him show up and heal his relationship with Jackie and de-Gilliganize her. He could come back as someone who cut ties with the family for reasons, stays for the story arc, but doesn't move in like the rest of them

 (I don't care about Jerry for some reason, but at least let him exist)

[peacheslatour]

Quote

While the storyline was compelling, the writers did overlook the fact that working class kids like Becky would have been applying for every conceivable local scholarship and award. Most of them might only have been $500 or $1000, but would help.  I seem to recall Junior Year being nothing but a steady drumbeat of "start lining up your college plan."

If I had to guess, I'd say that one or both of your parents went to college. Dan and Roseanne barely graduated from high school. They probably had no idea about when or how to get ready for college.

Edited April 29, 2021 by peacheslatour

[kassa]

14 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

If I had to guess, I'd say that one or both of your parents went to college. Dan and Roseanne barely graduated from high school. They probably had no idea about when or how to get ready for college.

They did, and I don't discount that in terms of overall expectations, but I handled everything myself until it came down to the actual acceptance decision.  The school was heavily involved, however, so I can imagine an economically disadvantaged school system would not be as proactive/supportive in making sure kids knew what to do and when.

But wasn't Becky in honors classes? I just find it hard to believe that by junior year she hadn't already either determined to go to the state U or had specific plans for how to shoot higher (which would necessarily involve scholarships/grants). 

A couple of years later they had Darlene lining up her own college exit route including housing and she wasn't remotely as keyed in to the academic side of school as Becky was. 

[peacheslatour]

3 minutes ago, kassa said:

They did, and I don't discount that in terms of overall expectations, but I handled everything myself until it came down to the actual acceptance decision.  The school was heavily involved, however, so I can imagine an economically disadvantaged school system would not be as proactive/supportive in making sure kids knew what to do and when.

But wasn't Becky in honors classes? I just find it hard to believe that by junior year she hadn't already either determined to go to the state U or had specific plans for how to shoot higher (which would necessarily involve scholarships/grants). 

A couple of years later they had Darlene lining up her own college exit route including housing and she wasn't remotely as keyed in to the academic side of school as Becky was. 

That's true although I have to wonder how well Lanford High's honors programs would stack up to better funded high schools. Being generous I would say that Darlene learned from watching Becky's mistakes.

[Arcadiasw]

On 4/25/2021 at 7:10 PM, RocknRollZombie said:

We have to remember that the show could very well had a different route and storylines, if Barr was still connected to the show/it never became the conners.

A lot things have been shifted when it became the conners, a lot things have been retconned. A lot development that these characters alive and or gone have been erased in this literation. 

But didn't they have some outline from her? Her comment about Mark dying in Afghanistan was from an interview and could've been included in the show instead of what we got. 

42 minutes ago, kassa said:

They did, and I don't discount that in terms of overall expectations, but I handled everything myself until it came down to the actual acceptance decision.  The school was heavily involved, however, so I can imagine an economically disadvantaged school system would not be as proactive/supportive in making sure kids knew what to do and when.

But wasn't Becky in honors classes? I just find it hard to believe that by junior year she hadn't already either determined to go to the state U or had specific plans for how to shoot higher (which would necessarily involve scholarships/grants). 

A couple of years later they had Darlene lining up her own college exit route including housing and she wasn't remotely as keyed in to the academic side of school as Becky was. 

I agree with this. Were school counselors not available or that bad? What about Becky's friends? Surely they had college aspirations and talked with each other on their plans and how to pay for it. My friends and I did in junior and heavily in our senior year.

[Snow Apple]

Well, Darlene almost made the same mistake. She almost didn't go because she didn't want to leave David.

I'm sure Becky could have found a way to college if she stuck around and finished her Senior year. She already got accepted into the University of Illinois(?). She could have used that time to research ways to manage tutition.

Instead, she didn't want to lose Mark even the few months until graduation, and ran away to elope like the hothead teenager she was. 

[HurricaneVal]

On 4/25/2021 at 2:27 PM, Dreamboat Annie said:

So.. in this episode we learn how Mark died.  Funny, but I seem to recall something different.  Back when the revival first began, I could have sworn the explanation given for Mark's death was that he was killed while serving in Afghanistan.  I even recall accepting that as the reason why Darlene would name her own son after him, because otherwise it would have made no sense to me.  Darlene and Mark Sr. did not get along.  She did not think much of him.  She put him down and mocked him relentlessly.  And, Darlene I believe would not have agreed if David had suggested naming their son after his bro (we were shown many times that Darlene "wore the pants" in that relationship).  Even if Darlene and Mark had become closer off camera after the original show ended, I really don't think hitting a dear while riding a motorcycle would be a reason Darlene would name her son after him.  After a war hero?  Yes.  After someone she never liked getting killed riding his motorcycle?  I really don't think so. 

Since no one else remembers this, either it was another show or I'm losing my mind, lol.

 

On 4/25/2021 at 3:13 PM, Bastet said:

No, that was something Roseanne Barr said in an interview a long time ago, well before there was a revival.  On the show, we never heard about the circumstances of Mark's death until this episode.

 

Huh.  I don't know why....obviously I must have made it up in my head....but somehow I knew that Mark was killed in a motorcycle accident before this. 

Y'all are saying this is the first time Mark's cause of death was revealed on the show. but I swear to you it was mentioned in passing, or heavily implied, very early on in the reboot.  The way they pussy-footed around it at the time and since made me think that there was some guilt about why Mark was riding recklessly, as in he and Becky had been arguing and he stormed out of the house, or he was riding to rescue David from something stupid he was doing.  So I remember their reluctance to talk about how he died being tied to some sort of residual guilt that nobody wanted to deal with.  Which is completely typical of this (and many) family's dynamics.

[needschocolate]

On 4/22/2021 at 8:17 PM, Cherpumple said:

I vaguely remember them saying that David had his breakdown and left Darlene shortly after Mark's death, and that he wasn't around to help raise Mark (his son). So, I guess Mark died shortly before or after the younger Mark was born, which would be about 13 years ago. But I could be misremembering. I've only watched these episodes once.

I don't think Darlene would have named her son Mark if the older Mark was still alive at the time.  

Perhaps Mark's death had something to do with David's breakdown.

On 4/22/2021 at 6:14 PM, izabella said:

Mark was saying that he is good at the level that is taught in school in Lanford, but can't compete with kids who went to prep schools and have private tutors.  That they are so much further along than he is because of it, so he was having to work that much harder by himself to try to compete and even that's not enough.

I get what he is saying.  When I went to college, I discovered the same thing.  There were freshmen who were able to enroll in advanced Calculus and French classes, when my high school didn't even offer Calculus or French, much less advanced. so I was starting from way behind on day 1.

I know a guy who was valedictorian of his high school and had to take a remedial math course in college before he started his freshman year.  

[eel21788]

On 4/29/2021 at 12:05 PM, HurricaneVal said:

Huh.  I don't know why....obviously I must have made it up in my head....but somehow I knew that Mark was killed in a motorcycle accident before this. 

Y'all are saying this is the first time Mark's cause of death was revealed on the show. but I swear to you it was mentioned in passing, or heavily implied, very early on in the reboot.  The way they pussy-footed around it at the time and since made me think that there was some guilt about why Mark was riding recklessly, as in he and Becky had been arguing and he stormed out of the house, or he was riding to rescue David from something stupid he was doing.  So I remember their reluctance to talk about how he died being tied to some sort of residual guilt that nobody wanted to deal with.  Which is completely typical of this (and many) family's dynamics.

What you stated is pretty much the scenario I had made up to justify where they were taking the plot lines.

S01.E08: O Sister, Where Art Thou?

https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/88385-s01e08-o-sister-where-art-thou/?do=getNewComment

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by eel21788

[LinkAiris]

On 4/23/2021 at 9:29 AM, mythoughtis said:

I graduated from high school in the mid 70s, 3rd in my class.  Did not get any money from our state as we weren’t poor enough.  Which back then meant both parents worked.  We didn’t have any money.  My school counselor didn’t suggest a single thing about getting money.   My parents  paid room and board and I paid tuition and books and all else. My chosen state college did qualify me for 10 hours of student work a week  and I got a government loan one year and a bank loan the next semester. I dropped our after first semester sophomore year because my parents couldn’t pay spring room and board and I didn’t know how to come up with any more money.  There might have been scholarships available but no one told me about them. 
we called our community college ‘West Main High’ - meaning it was high school ish.  After a few years, I transferred my college credits there, took 3 classes and got an associates degree. 

Families like the Conners are why colleges now have First Gen programs for students whose parents didn’t go to college.  The colleges help the students navigate thru topics like financial aid, etc.  it’s now recognized that not all parents understand the hoops to jump thru. 
 

Becky and Dan are similar to many families when it comes to Mark( the older).  Dad always blames the offspring’s significant other for all the offsprings issues.  The offspring never wants to admit their deceased spouse wasn’t perfect until forced to say so.   

The show really messed with the timeline of Marks death  by making Harris so young while keeping everyone else the normal  chronological  age.  Was Becky about 24 when Mark died or in her early 30s by this shows’  reckoning? I have a couple of cousins who lost their spouse in their late 20s suddenly.  They were indeed emotional messes for years.  Their lives did take a downward spiral.  

 

It sounds like your journey through higher education was a challenging one, navigating financial difficulties and the lack of guidance in accessing available support like scholarships. Many students from similar backgrounds face similar hurdles, where the complexities of financial aid and navigating college can be overwhelming without proper guidance.

The shift towards First Gen programs in colleges today reflects a growing recognition of these challenges. These programs aim to support students whose parents did not attend college, providing crucial assistance in understanding financial aid options, academic expectations, and overall college life.

Regarding the show's timeline discrepancies and portrayal of grief, it's understandable how inaccuracies can affect the portrayal of realistic emotional experiences, like the aftermath of losing a spouse at a young age. Grief can indeed lead to significant personal struggles and life adjustments, which your cousins' experiences vividly illustrate.

Your story underscores the importance of improving accessibility to education and support systems for all students, regardless of their background or financial situation. It's through these efforts that we can hope to make higher education more equitable and inclusive for future generations.