S07.E05: Fear Me

[Trini]

When a powerful new villain, Psych (guest star Ennis Esmer), channels and amplifies everyone’s fears in order to wreak havoc on Central City, Barry realizes, with Cecile’s help, that he must face his own worst fear in order to beat this new threat.

Meanwhile, Joe is surprised when Kristen Kramer (guest star Carmen Moore) from the Governor’s Municipal Logistics Commission drops into CCPD for a visit. Iris warns her father to dig deeper on why Kristen is actually there. Caitlin and Frost argue about how to live their lives.

David McWhirter directed the episode with story by Thomas Pound and teleplay by Lauren Barnett & Christina M. Walker.

Airdate: 3/30/2021

[cambridgeguy]

Looks like someone didn't forget about all of Killer Frost's criminal past after all.  Too bad for her that you're not off the hook if you have more good deeds than bad.

[adora721]

57 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Looks like someone didn't forget about all of Killer Frost's criminal past after all.  Too bad for her that you're not off the hook if you have more good deeds than bad.

True, especially if those criminal deeds includes accessory to HR Wells' murder. I still doubt KF will actually pay for her crimes; she's not even whispered an apology to all the team Flash members she hurt. And she lied to Ralph saying all she did was kidnap and stab her friends. Ugh!

[thuganomics85]

So, it seems like this Psych villain is similar to the villain from last week, where Barry/The Flash's powers won't work on him, and he is likely connected to that mysterious lightning that happened when Barry got his powers back.  I wonder who else is out there that was caused by that?  Despite the mask and voice modulator, I could still tell that was Ennis Esmer (Dotcom from Blindspot, Emir from Schitt's Creek, and so much more!) playing him. 

Totally forgot that the Speed Force took the form of Nora, so I was confused why everyone seemed so chill over that reveal.  Even then, I would think that would always be a bit weird.

All of the stuff with Caitlin/Killer Frost was a waste of time since it was obvious that it would end with them remaining apart for now.  Even if the story does end with them reuniting in the long run, they wouldn't drop this gimmick that quickly.

Speaking of Frost, so it looks like this Kramer character is here to bring her to justice, because she's the only one who actually remembers that Frost has violent, criminal past.  Oh, Kramer!  You'll learn real quick that in Central City, all it takes is some sad faces, puppy eyes, and not killing someone for a day to make Team Flash forgive you!

Felt like there was a lack of Iris in this episode.

I do wonder what is going to come out of Cecile's powers and possibly amplifying them.

Felt bad for laughing when Barry had his massive headache right after Cisco made a crack about Martian Manhunter possibly not being the top empath anymore, because I was just picturing that it actually was J'onn just popping up and being all "Oh, y'all want to talk shit about me, now?!"

[Cthulhudrew]

Could they have said the name "Fuerza" any more times this episode?

[adora721]

Cisco's greatest fear had nothing to do with Kamilla based on his behavioral history with her. He lied about what he saw. I suspect his greatest fear was about Caitlin. Cait is Cisco's highest priority. 

[Lantern7]

Looks like we have a theme . . . though the name "Fuerza" is a mouthful. "Psych" is kind of generic, but points for the horror show appearance. It was scary, but not over-the-top scary. Is he the first villain Cecile has ever helped put down? She looked as thrilled just thinking about getting in DeVoe's chair as I'd expect, and that was hilarious.

*sigh* I'm thinking "My Two Caits" is going to get old soon, even with someone trying to bring Frost to justice. I'd just merge them back together in mind and body. No more split personalities . . . Frost wouldn't have to be considered a split personality. Just blend her and Caitlin's psyches into one smooth homogenized blend. But split personalities is such a time-honored trope, so . . .  #eyeroll

[Trini]

Saw Michelle Harrison's name in the credits, but I thought Nora/Joan Garrick/whoever would have one scene at the end, so they surprised me when the 'Speed Force' showed up early on.

Wow, giving Eva the credit for splitting Caitlin and Frost? LAME. I was hoping Caitlin's mother had found a way, and it had been done on purpose. Congrats to everyone who wanted Killer Frost to be held accountable for her crimes; it's a few seasons too late for me. I don't really care. I am concerned that this new Kramer character is actually here for Frost and not Joe's story. (Or are they the same story? Ugh)

Grant must be so happy he gained muscle during the extra-long hiatus; they let him take off his shirt, and do this:

Haven't seen Barry's nipples since Season 4, LOL!

We're getting screwed out of hugs because of Covid. 😞  It was weird that Joe didn't hug Cecile after her Psych-nightmare. But it was even weirder that he shrugged off how upset she was when a) he knows she has mind powers, and b) he KNOWS that crazy stuff happens ALL the time in Central City. They write Joe so badly lately.

'Yay', Cecile's deus ex machina powers save the day again.

So that giant monster thing is definitely showing up on another show, right? I'm guessing Legends, but who knows, maybe Supergirl.

I did like that we got a villain who can't be defeated by just by running faster. Gives me a tiny bit of hope for this season. Speaking of Psych -- he just kind of faded away...? Was he a person or just a manifestation of ... something else? I guess answers next week, according to "Nora"/Speed Force.

On 3/30/2021 at 10:41 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Felt like there was a lack of Iris in this episode.

It was definitely Iris-lite. (And with Barry in the cryo-pod, next week is probably Barry/Grant -lite.) I was kind glad that we had Iris/Joe scenes, but then they weren't father-daughter scenes.  SIGH

I was giving the show the benefit of doubt that Iris would get to talk to Barry one-on-one about her trauma in this episode since she didn't last week, but it looks like they already consider that story done. Disappointing.

Appreciated the callbacks to Crisis, the other shows (although they didn't explain why a Gotham Crows truck was in Central City), and previous villains. These writers (or maybe just Eric?) seem to like easter eggs. Really didn't need to see Savitar stab one of our heroes through the chest AGAIN, though. And how many times does Barry have to see his mother dead?? Hopefully, they can't kill the Speed Force twice.

Despite all the nitpicks, I actually think this episode was pretty well put together and did a good job of setting up storylines going forward.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Trini
oy, grammar

[Starry]

4 hours ago, Trini said:

I was giving the show the benefit of doubt that Iris would get to talk to Barry one-on-one about her trauma in this episode since she didn't last week, but it looks like they already consider that story done. Disappointing.

Wallace doesn't want Iris to "complain" in front of Barry. I will never forget how the writers had her apologize for having an emotional reaction after Barry gave her the Crisis news.

If Frost has to pay for her crimes that should mean bad news for Caitlin too. It was Caitlin who let Amunet use Frost as muscle in exchange for a cure.

[AnimeMania]

Let me be the first to say I have no clue what is going on in the new episodes of the new season, and I am not sure that I want to know. I am not feeling all this run fast towards the power of love touchy-feely nonsense. At least make an effort to pseudo-science your way to a solution. I am not understanding why they fighting the baddies all episode just to have them disappear at the end of each episode.

[cambridgeguy]

5 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

I am not feeling all this run fast towards the power of love touchy-feely nonsense.

On the plus side Cecile magically spread Barry's courage and not his love (say, did you know he's the paragon of love?) to save the day.

And I guess we know who Barry really cares about since only Iris, Cisco, and Speed Force Nora showed up in his nightmare.  Sorry Joe and Caitlin!

[adora721]

“I would hold off on the congratulations. There is a high likelihood these writers will twist this to be another coddle session for Killer Frost when the entire city stands to declare her sins forgiven and she is their hero. I don't trust that these writers will actually hold Cait or Killer Frost accountable for anything; they are too dedicated to the toxic privilege given to Cait/KF all these years. 

So, KF mentioned "Mark" as the person who gave her up to the cops.

Spoiler

Someone said this must be Chillbane. I guess they will have a pre-existing relationship. Perhaps Mark knows all of KF's secrets”

 

[tennisgurl]

Not a bad episode, I always like the "your darkest fear" episodes if done well, and while this one wasn't anything super special, I think it moved things along quite well. I'm disappointed at the lack of Iris and Barry/Iris this week though after all the goodness we got last week, like a follow up to Iris admitting how much she's hurting, especially if Barry is going to be comatose for much of next episode. So the last two bad guys aren't just meta's but are actually like the Speed Force? Are they also forces in the universe, or variations of the speed force? That actually sounds like it has some potential, hope that they use it well. I laughed at Barry's long suffering sigh when he saw the new bad guy swaggering up to him, he just has so much on his plate he cannot even start to deal with some new random bad guy, even though now it looks like he is definitely not just some bad guy. 

None of the visions really told us anything we didn't know already, the one decent punch was dead Iris telling Barry that by letting her die, he was also killing their children. Ouch. Also, children? The plural? Of course KF's worse fear is getting held accountable for her crimes and turned over by Caitlin, the unimaginable horror of having to face consequences of her own terrible crimes. Its not even a vision about her feeling guilty about almost murdering the whole team or any of the other people she's hurt, its all about how much she hates the idea of being arrested and her being hurt that Caitlin doesn't want her around. Cisco's vision seemed weird. I cant decide if his boring vision about his boring relationship with his boring girlfriend and the boring fake danger she's in was just so boring the show didn't even want to film it, or if he was lying. It felt like he might be lying about what he saw, although I don't know why, or if it will get revisited. 

Kramer clearly doesn't know how crime and punishment works around here, all you need to do to never face consequences for your crimes is look sufficiently sad and resist the urge to kill people for a few days. Then your the hero now and none of those other violent crimes ever even happened. I don't buy for a second that KF will do real jail time, this just seems like an excuse for another KF pity party, one of the shows favorite subplots. She might end up getting arrested or trying to turn herself in if they want to at least attempt to give her some growth, but then the whole team will give a bunch of speeches about how wonderful and awesome she is and she will be let go and the whole city will declare the day Killer Frost Day because people in this universe are very forgiving. 

I wonder what This Is Us is like in the Arrowverse? What do you bet Randall gets super powers and then decides to become a superhero because his long lost third cousin was a superhero too? 

Whole lot of continuity this week, we saw a Crow van and got a reference to Gotham, we got them pulling out the anti psychic headsets from when they fought Grodd, the fusion thing they used to stabilize Firestorm, and of course The Thinkers Chair. Cant blame Cecile for not being thrilled to get into that, I wonder if this will lead somewhere with her powers growing. Also, come on Joe. This is the Arrowverse, when someone says they saw some kind of nightmare monster, just assume that its real. Why is Joe always stuck carrying the idiot stick lately? 

How many times is Barry going to have to watch his mother die? Now wonder he's been so twitchy lately, is there a support group he can join? 

[Chicago Redshirt]

14 hours ago, Trini said:

Appreciated the callbacks to Crisis, the other shows (although they didn't explain why a Gotham Crows truck was in Central City),

I guess we are supposed to conclude that the Crows are more like Brinks -- a security company that operates nationwide. So they may have a large Gotham presence/contract, but they run operations anywhere.

[immortalfrieza]

Honestly? This is probably the first Flash episode that I felt no real desire to comment on. Which for me means nothing particularly interesting or much more likely contradictory and/or stupid happened in this episode. It is sad that that's what's comment worthy.

Oh, I suppose Fuerza being the worst supervillain name ever counts. Serious Cisco? You couldn't have come up with something better? Anything would've been better.

[adora721]

This is a much better explanation of the physical split of Caitlin and Killer Frost: https://thatkillervibe.tumblr.com/post/647189363167526912/so-thinking-back-on-what-frost-said-at-the

[bettername2come]

20 hours ago, adora721 said:

Cisco's greatest fear had nothing to do with Kamilla based on his behavioral history with her. He lied about what he saw. I suspect his greatest fear was about Caitlin. Cait is Cisco's highest priority. 

My guess would be it would be about Evil Cisco and/or his powers somehow back and chaotically dangerous. Maybe an evil Wells murdering him.

7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I wonder what This Is Us is like in the Arrowverse? What do you bet Randall gets super powers and then decides to become a superhero because his long lost third cousin was a superhero too? 

Ooh, can Kevin have been cast in the new double in-universe Oliver Queen biopic?

On the actual show, I really like the Nora actress and think she plays the Speed Force character well.

I would actually love to see Cecile with Martian Manhunter. I think they'd get along splendidly. I'm surprised it didn't occur to me before. 

I feel like Killer Frost is going to leave the show to join the Suicide Squad or some other ARGUS team since they mentioned she was cool with ARGUS last week.

[Terrafamilia]

That Star Labs satellite must be holding station over Central City 24/7.

Star Trek: Voyager was made fun of because of the level of technobabble it used but this show leaves it in the dust with its nonsensical technogibberish.

[Trini]

56 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

I feel like Killer Frost is going to leave the show to join the Suicide Squad or some other ARGUS team since they mentioned she was cool with ARGUS last week.

Oooh, that would actually be a good exit for Frost... so that's probably not going to happen, LOL! It's pretty clear they like Frost more than Caitlin, so if one were to leave, it's probably not Frost.

[adora721]

2 hours ago, bettername2come said:

I feel like Killer Frost is going to leave the show to join the Suicide Squad or some other ARGUS team since they mentioned she was cool with ARGUS last week.

I loooovvvvveee this idea! Perhaps she'll leave after her "sister" bites the dust, which causes Cisco to exclaim, "No! It can't end like this."

[cambridgeguy]

10 hours ago, Trini said:

Oooh, that would actually be a good exit for Frost... so that's probably not going to happen, LOL! It's pretty clear they like Frost more than Caitlin, so if one were to leave, it's probably not Frost.

They like have a snarky dick around - the same thing happened when Mirror Laurel showed up on Arrow.  At least Frost can join in on the action scenes while Caitlin is mostly useless - aside from spouting medical exposition she has no purpose on the show anymore aside from the Frost stuff.

[Lady Calypso]

This was..an episode, I guess. It wasn't bad, but just a bit on the boring side. It took me too long to recognize Speedforce Nora, especially since I wasn't paying full attention to the dialogue and it's been over a year since we saw Speedforce Nora show up.

The Caitlin/Frost stuff? Predictable. And it shows that the show likes Frost way more than it likes Caitlin, with the majority of the POV being Frost's. And the fact that...I gotta admit, I find Caitlin more boring. Frost has a lot of issues with how her actions had been handwaved away, but maybe the focus on her for several seasons now (way more than Caitlin) has gotten me more interested in her. 

That being said, good for the show for finally acknowledging Killer Frost and her actions having consequences. Four seasons late, mind you. I don't expect Frost to go anywhere, unless they're really looking to save money for next season. Which, I guess would help set that up with the separation of both characters. One has to be leaving at some point, since their budget can't likely handle two Danielle Panabakers on the show, and right now, I'd think Caitlin would leave because the show adores Frost but...getting rid of Frost frees up their budget more. Basically, this arc just makes me wonder about which Snow will depart at the end of the season, because no way do they keep both on for the rest of the series. 

They finally made use of Cecile's powers! It was neat to see her help out in a very useful way. Unfortunately, they really made Joe look like an idiot with him even QUESTIONING Cecile's nightmare being real. Buddy, you've seen a LOT of shit over the years. And NOW you doubt that her nightmare could have been real? Really? 

You see, I would also join the train of Cisco lying about his own nightmare, but....this show WOULD save time in showing his nightmare and just describing it. 

[Trini]

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

You see, I would also join the train of Cisco lying about his own nightmare, but....this show WOULD save time in showing his nightmare and just describing it. 

Yes, that and Cisco's nightmare just wasn't considered as important as Barry's and Frost for the story in this episode. (Plus them not having Kamilla's actress saves some guest star money.)

But I can see why people might think that Cisco was lying, the show has done a pretty poor job of establishing the Cisco/Kamilla relationship; it doesn't seem that believable that she is so important to him.

[adora721]

5 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

That being said, good for the show for finally acknowledging Killer Frost and her actions having consequences. Four seasons late, mind you.

I'm fairly certain the BLM protests of last year and Warner Brothers making statements about actively being anti-racist have a lot to do with finally bringing a problematic, criminal, and privileged character like Killer Frost to face trial. Although I'm also certain KF will still be let off the hook somehow and notice that Cait's work in human trafficking will likely be ignored.

Edited April 1, 2021 by adora721

[Sweet Tooth]

On 3/30/2021 at 10:55 PM, Trini said:

But it was even weirder that he shrugged off how upset she was when a) he knows she has mind powers, and b) he KNOWS that crazy stuff happens ALL the time in Central City. They write Joe so badly lately.

That infuriated me. I thought at first it was Mirror Joe. He not only shrugged it off, he was a bit condescending about it, despite her saying how real it was. But at least bravo for him putting 2 and 2 together the next day and figuring out it wasn't a run-of-the-mill nightmare.

Cisco is 100% lying about his vision, especially since his was the only one we didn't see.

Here's the thing. Whenever a new cop character comes to town who's ready to bring in their criminal at any cost, it quickly turns into a sh*t show of epic proportions. House was the granddaddy of this, but Oliver had one on Arrow, and boy was I glad when that was over.

We know KF isn't going to jail, so we'll probably have to put up with quite a bit of hand-wringing and angst until this is resolved. 

Let's see what happens...

[Quark]

I adore Cecile, so I really enjoyed this episode. I really hope they are not setting her up to be some sort of villain though.

Did we not see the Speed Force die last season? Did Barry getting his powers back bring it back to life? I'm looking forward to finding out more about what exactly the Speed Force, Psych and Fuerza are. It would be nice to know why Psych looks like the coolest of the bunch, Fuerza looks like a rather messed up monster and the Speed Force... is Barry's Mum.

[immortalfrieza]

On 4/1/2021 at 11:45 AM, Lady Calypso said:

That being said, good for the show for finally acknowledging Killer Frost and her actions having consequences. Four seasons late, mind you. I don't expect Frost to go anywhere, unless they're really looking to save money for next season. Which, I guess would help set that up with the separation of both characters. One has to be leaving at some point, since their budget can't likely handle two Danielle Panabakers on the show, and right now, I'd think Caitlin would leave because the show adores Frost but...getting rid of Frost frees up their budget more. Basically, this arc just makes me wonder about which Snow will depart at the end of the season, because no way do they keep both on for the rest of the series. 

Or they'll arbitrarily suddenly start destabilizing or something and have to remerge them together to save them, making the whole splitting storyline pointless to have ever happened. I'd honestly prefer that Frost stay because I've found KF far more interesting of a character than Caitlin despite the constant writing fumbles for the whole concept. Especially now that Caitlin is really just "there" and never actually does anything but show up for 10 seconds to spout off some medical jargon before vanishing again, with KF taking the fore in nearly all of Danielle's scenes if she has any at all.

Having said that, I would say that Frost has done more than enough at this point to have made up for anything she did... if she didn't just stand there and let the villains get away or get taken out with a wave of their hand every time she actually tries to do something.

Edited April 3, 2021 by immortalfrieza

[adora721]

On 4/3/2021 at 10:57 AM, immortalfrieza said:

Having said that, I would say that Frost has done more than enough at this point to have made up for anything she did... if she didn't just stand there and let the villains get away or get taken out with a wave of their hand every time she actually tries to do something.

Among other crimes, Killer Frost worked to support the selling of human beings into modern slavery, maimed and tortured, and was an accessory to the murder of HR Wells. I don't think the victims' family and friends would accept good deeds without prison time as making up for what Killer Frost did. That's not how justice works. If Killer Frost wasn't in Caitlin's body, I doubt she'd be getting away with all of these crimes. 

By the way, last year there was a news article about a 95 year-old woman who was charged as an accessory to 10, 000 murders just because she worked as a secretary at age 18 in a concentration camp and claimed to not know about the murders. I'm sure she did a lot of good deeds after the war, but justice still caugt up to her.

Edited April 5, 2021 by adora721