S19.E09: Heidi Heitkamp, Nick Gillespie, David Shor

[PrincessPurrsALot]

The Interview:

David Shor is a Senior Fellow at the Center for American Progress Action Fund and the Head of Data Science with OpenLabs, a “non-profit research lab that develops a wide range of cutting-edge products used by the most important progressive organizations in the country.” 

The Panel:

Nick Gillespie is an Editor-At-Large at Reason and host of “The Reason Interview” podcast.

Heidi Heitkamp is a former Democratic Senator from North Dakota and Co-Founder of the One Country Project.

Original air date 2021.03.19

[candall]

I would have been happy for an hour of David Shor.  Fascinating character with interesting data and conclusions.  I want to know more.

[heatherchandler]

Heidi Heitkamp is a truly awful person.  What is her deal?

[bobbyjoe]

Bill on tonight’s show:  “I don’t want to talk about cancel culture and this nonsense every week”

This may be the funniest thing Bill’s said in at least the past ten years.  Unintentionally funny, but still hilarious.  The only thing that could come even close to this would be if he claimed he never smoked pot.

[aghst]

The black woman they talked about losing her job for tweets she made as a teen wasn’t just “talking shit” about gays.

Quote

In 2011, when she was 17, McCammond tweeted "Outdone by [an] Asian #whatsnew," and "now googling how to not wake up with swollen, asian eyes..."

A third tweet said: "Give me a 2/10 on my chem [chemistry] problem, cross out all of my work and don't explain what I did wrong... thanks a lot stupid Asian T.A [teaching assistant] you're great," read another.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/what-alexi-mccammond-tweets-said-teen-vogue-editor-resigns-1577327

 

These tweets surfaced in 2019 and she apologized at the time.

Now they come out again in the wake of a horrific act of violence against Asian Americans and a year of hate crimes against them.

Why didn’t Bill mention these particular tweets?

Yeah people shouldn’t have stupid things they did in their youth held against them for the rest of their lives.

But maybe she agreed she shouldn’t take the job now or didn’t fight it too much when apparently he staff at the magazine objected to her hiring.   Maybe unlucky timing for her to have anti Asian tweets in her past.  Also it may not have been corporate overlords who nixed her hiring but rather people with whom she’d be working objected.

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by aghst

[Robert Lynch]

I was side-eying that young data analyst about statistics in both the 2016 and 2020 elections, but that’s just me. I don’t know. It seemed hard to take in, but whatever...

WTF, Bill? He should have taken the sides of those lives lost in the Georgia spa shooting. And again with cancel culture! 

[Caseysgirl]

Not a great episode. Heidi Heitkamp sabotaged every conversation by over- talking and shouting down everyone. I don’t even know who the other guy was but he never got a chance to finish a sentence.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I was side-eying that young data analyst about statistics in both the 2016 and 2020 elections, but that’s just me. I don’t know. It seemed hard to take in, but whatever...

Everyone has their own theory about why polls are wrong and those theories are far and wide. I don't know that this guy has any better explanation for it than anyone else. That said, he's sort of fascinating. Graduated from college at 15? Wow. 

The really frustrating thing, of course, is that Bill keeps perpetuating this right wing definition of what Democrats are and why people won't vote for them, even as David Shor points out that it's the right wing that's defining them. And Bill is helping them do it by repeating it ad nauseum.

Then on the panel, Heitkamp points out that the right wing keeps using cancel culture to paint themselves as victims and Bill agrees with her! He doesn't even see the irony.

I did think they had a good discussion about Republicans driving up the debt with tax cuts then complaining about the debt when Democrats are in office. "It's like they're black-out drunks." Good line.

I also got a kick out of the mid-show bit about movies warnings. I can't remember half of them except The Wizard of Oz: "Powerful woman of color murdered by white girl."

[BrownBear2012]

9 hours ago, aghst said:

The black woman they talked about losing her job for tweets she made as a teen wasn’t just “talking shit” about gays.

https://www.newsweek.com/what-alexi-mccammond-tweets-said-teen-vogue-editor-resigns-1577327

 

These tweets surfaced in 2019 and she apologized at the time.

Now they come out again in the wake of a horrific act of violence against Asian Americans and a year of hate crimes against them.

Why didn’t Bill mention these particular tweets?

Yeah people shouldn’t have stupid things they did in their youth held against them for the rest of their lives.

But maybe she agreed she shouldn’t take the job now or didn’t fight it too much when apparently he staff at the magazine objected to her hiring.   Maybe unlucky timing for her to have anti Asian tweets in her past.  Also it may not have been corporate overlords who nixed her hiring but rather people with whom she’d be working objected.

 

 

 

Here's a thought...if you don't want to be a victim of cancel culture don't tweet stuff that will offend a whole race of people just because you got a bad grade on a college paper from an Asian instructor. I see this alot with younger Twitter users who just have to tweet out their opinions because they feel angry about something or someone not thinking about the digital trail they are leaving behind that will come back to haunt them later on. I'm familiar with Alexi McCammond as she makes appearances on various shows on MSNBC. She seems smart and affable...not at all like the smarmy, entitled brat that her college tweets would imply. We all can change and shouldn't be judged by our past stupid selves but that's not how the Internet works...lesson number one for your kids: don't tweet anything that you wouldn't want your parents or college admissions officers to read. 

[Pike Ludwell]

4 hours ago, Caseysgirl said:

Not a great episode. Heidi Heitkamp sabotaged every conversation by over- talking and shouting down everyone. I don’t even know who the other guy was but he never got a chance to finish a sentence.

Yeah. It was like there was a motor within her to speak, and once turned on the motor could not be turned off and she had to interrupt and keep talking, even if what she was saying completely ignored or had no relation to what the others said. I was like "oh no ... they're making interesting points and she's going to interrupt again."

[Victor the Crab]

Nick Gillespie? UGH! Bill is really scrapping the barrel when trying to find guests, that he needs that asshole on!

23 hours ago, BrownBear2012 said:

Here's a thought...if you don't want to be a victim of cancel culture don't tweet stuff that will offend a whole race of people just because you got a bad grade on a college paper from an Asian instructor.

Bill just can't help himself with his non stop whining of cancel culture when there are other more important issues to deal with! But then again, Bill loves him some racist stereotype of "jokes" about Asians, so he can't really complain about cancel culture because he's still on the air!

Miserable, miserable show all around!

[deirdra]

Nick, Heidi & Bill were all interrupting each other mid-sentence, it was exhausting to watch.

[BrownBear2012]

On 3/20/2021 at 11:31 AM, iMonrey said:

Everyone has their own theory about why polls are wrong and those theories are far and wide. I don't know that this guy has any better explanation for it than anyone else. That said, he's sort of fascinating. Graduated from college at 15? Wow. 

The really frustrating thing, of course, is that Bill keeps perpetuating this right wing definition of what Democrats are and why people won't vote for them, even as David Shor points out that it's the right wing that's defining them. And Bill is helping them do it by repeating it ad nauseum.

Then on the panel, Heitkamp points out that the right wing keeps using cancel culture to paint themselves as victims and Bill agrees with her! He doesn't even see the irony.

I did think they had a good discussion about Republicans driving up the debt with tax cuts then complaining about the debt when Democrats are in office. "It's like they're black-out drunks." Good line.

I also got a kick out of the mid-show bit about movies warnings. I can't remember half of them except The Wizard of Oz: "Powerful woman of color murdered by white girl."

If people aren't voting for Democrats as apparently Bill proclaimed on Friday night, then why is the House and Senate a Democrat majority and the President is a Democrat?

[wknt3]

On 3/20/2021 at 2:30 AM, bobbyjoe said:

Bill on tonight’s show:  “I don’t want to talk about cancel culture and this nonsense every week”

This may be the funniest thing Bill’s said in at least the past ten years.  Unintentionally funny, but still hilarious.  The only thing that could come even close to this would be if he claimed he never smoked pot.

I actually found it encouraging. Unlike most of these bees in his bonnet (Islam, how scientists are wrong and everything can be solved with nutrition, how the Emmys and critics are ignoring his brilliance, etc.) he seems to realize that he's beating a dead horse and boring a large portion of his audience. The first step is admitting you have a problem and all that.

[Victor the Crab]

1 hour ago, wknt3 said:

I actually found it encouraging. Unlike most of these bees in his bonnet (Islam, how scientists are wrong and everything can be solved with nutrition, how the Emmys and critics are ignoring his brilliance, etc.) he seems to realize that he's beating a dead horse and boring a large portion of his audience. The first step is admitting you have a problem and all that.

I doubt he'll take the next step and try to correct his own problem. Bill seems perfectly content to lash out at things nobody really cares about!

[Pike Ludwell]

I think Bill thinks that "wokeness" in general is a major problem for the country because of the weird thinking it involves. Cancel culture is one aspect of wokeness. He would disagree with those saying it's not an important issue.

The opening interview with Shor was only about ten minutes. I think Bill cut it short because he kept trying to get Shor to admit that wokeness is a problem for Democrats. Shor kept either not directly addressing it or minimizing it, or addressing it only after a lot of prodding, even though his polling data backs it up. I think Bill got fed up with it.

The very first issue with the panel is an important one - so many saying the Atlanta shootings were racial, when the evidence doesn't support it. The country moving in this weird way totally disregarding facts is a major issue from the left and also Bill would say, as we've seen in the recent 4 years -- from the right. Bill wants to keep addressing an issue he thinks is important, in all it ramifications, including cancel culture.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Pike Ludwell

[Caseysgirl]

I’m not sure how the rest of his audience feel but it seems that those who post to this site are kind of over Bill.  I would love this format to continue with another comedian. If they were a little less of a curmudgeon and well informed all the better.

[juno]

23 minutes ago, Caseysgirl said:

I’m not sure how the rest of his audience feel but it seems that those who post to this site are kind of over Bill.  I would love this format to continue with another comedian. If they were a little less of a curmudgeon and well informed all the better.

You are correct. He is tired, predictable and has developed so many mental callouses that they are constantly coming through his bits.

Pretty tall order to replace him though, this format was built around Bill and his talents. The comedian would need good interviewing skills, knowledge of politics and of course to be very funny. John Oliver, Seth Meyers and Trevor Noah come to mind.

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by juno

[Victor the Crab]

1 hour ago, Pike Ludwell said:

The very first issue with the panel is an important one - so many saying the Atlanta shootings were racial, when the evidence doesn't support it.

Rather odd, given how we're seeing a rise of violence against Asians across North America. Besides, didn't Bill once rage, a long time ago, that sexual addiction is not a real addiction?

[littlepaw]

1 hour ago, Victor the Crab said:

Rather odd, given how we're seeing a rise of violence against Asians across North America. Besides, didn't Bill once rage, a long time ago, that sexual addiction is not a real addiction?

Yes, and he's very often weirdly defensive of those who have been accused of gross sexual misconduct. The last one that comes to mind was Armie Hammer (now under investigation for rape charges); at the time there were several reports of emotional manipulation and physical abuse. Bill blamed Hammer's  accusers and compared him to the protagonist in Fifty Shades of Grey "the most popular book ever" (?). It was pretty nauseating. 

[BrownBear2012]

6 hours ago, wknt3 said:

I actually found it encouraging. Unlike most of these bees in his bonnet (Islam, how scientists are wrong and everything can be solved with nutrition, how the Emmys and critics are ignoring his brilliance, etc.) he seems to realize that he's beating a dead horse and boring a large portion of his audience. The first step is admitting you have a problem and all that.

Or maybe you're just an old burnt out white guy.

[BrownBear2012]

37 minutes ago, littlepaw said:

Yes, and he's very often weirdly defensive of those who have been accused of gross sexual misconduct. The last one that comes to mind was Armie Hammer (now under investigation for rape charges); at the time there were several reports of emotional manipulation and physical abuse. Bill blamed Hammer's  accusers and compared him to the protagonist in Fifty Shades of Grey "the most popular book ever" (?). It was pretty nauseating. 

There are no limits to Bill's misogyny...I would imagine that there are numerous women that might come forward with similar stories about Bill...Rose McGowan recently spoke about her encounter with Bill on the set of Politcally Incorrect...explicit sexual harassment. There may be others but they are not willing  to come forward at this time.

 

 

 

 

[BrownBear2012]

3 hours ago, juno said:

You are correct. He is tired, predictable and has developed so many mental callouses that they are constantly coming through his bits.

Pretty tall order to replace him though, this format was built around Bill and his talents. The comedian would need good interviewing skills, knowledge of politics and of course to be very funny. John Oliver, Seth Meyers and Trevor Noah come to mind.

 

And they have their own shows that are successful...Oliver is on HBO and his show is outstanding. This format is tired. We see and hear these same panelists on all the cable networks so it is redundant. When Bill first started on HBO it was the only show on a premium channel like it. It was fresh and gave people comedy with a politcal bent. Others were doing similar sort of shows then like Jon Stewart at the Daily Show and Stephen Colbert but they were not panel discussions just interviews and bits. What I admired about Jon Stewart was that he quit when he knew he was burnt out and needed to live a normal life and do other things. Bill's act is stale and so his show...his shift to a more right wing/Libertarian view on things has bombed. He has writers now that used to write for Glenn Beck...need I say more? 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Bill just can't help himself with his non stop whining of cancel culture when there are other more important issues to deal with!

I think it all started with Berkley. He's never gotten over it.

[sistermagpie]

18 hours ago, Pike Ludwell said:

I think Bill thinks that "wokeness" in general is a major problem for the country because of the weird thinking it involves. Cancel culture is one aspect of wokeness. He would disagree with those saying it's not an important issue.

"Wokeness" and "Cancel culture" are completely meaningless terms as usually used now--including how it's used by Bill. It just means somebody caring about something he thinks they shouldn't. If he really cared about those things he wouldn't happily his facts wrong when he complains about it, like acting as if a lot of people on Twitter saying somebody's gross is the same as calling for a resignation is the same as someone being banned from ever working again. This is how conservative media treats the idea.

Quote

The opening interview with Shor was only about ten minutes. I think Bill cut it short because he kept trying to get Shor to admit that wokeness is a problem for Democrats. Shor kept either not directly addressing it or minimizing it, or addressing it only after a lot of prodding, even though his polling data backs it up. I think Bill got fed up with it.

If Bill wanted his guest to confirm his own opinions and the guy refused it might not be just because the guy was refusing to admit Bill was right (which basically means confirming the right-wing view of the world). When I was listening to that interview, in fact, it seemed to me that Bill would rather talk people being driven away by "wokeness" than people, even non-white, straight, cis people, attracted by bigotry and Trump's strongman cult. I mean, it's not exactly surprising that a random person he brought on his show turned out to not be there to validate all his opinions about how people care too much about black lives mattering etc. It's his right-wing guests who come on to agree with him on that.

 

Quote

The very first issue with the panel is an important one - so many saying the Atlanta shootings were racial, when the evidence doesn't support it. The country moving in this weird way totally disregarding facts is a major issue from the left and also Bill would say, as we've seen in the recent 4 years -- from the right. Bill wants to keep addressing an issue he thinks is important, in all it ramifications, including cancel culture.

But again, that's evidence using the right-wing version of racism that basically means that if the person doesn't say or think they murdered the person because they really hate their race, it's not racism. As usual, he doesn't want to deal with the more complicated issue, which is that yes, everyone agrees that the guy was motivated by misogyny. There's also a long history in the US of Asian women specifically being linked to and dehumanized as sex workers, and the current anti-Asian climate also dehumanizes them and makes them more acceptable targets. 

Bill's promoting the easy gaslighting about racism, that it's not there unless the racist himself says it's there, and frankly even if they do, it'll probably be explained away.

I think it's also sloppy that while he's happy to say that religion in general makes people feel bad about sex, he avoids getting into the specific sub culture this guy is from--Trump's base--where regular sexual feelings are called "sex addiction" so the guy doesn't have to take responsibility for it and instead is encouraged to blame it on women as "stumbling blocks" that he took out--and he just happened to choose Asian run businesses and the grandmothers who run them as his target.

Edited March 22, 2021 by sistermagpie

[RealHousewife]

My favorite part of the episode was Bill mocking Tucker Carlson's face. 

[wknt3]

On 3/22/2021 at 1:52 PM, iMonrey said:

I think it all started with Berkley. He's never gotten over it.

Personally I think that it started earlier than. Like a lot of the old gasbags talking about woke culture I believe he's just seizing on a real, if overblown,  phenomenon to whine about facing any consequences for saying stupid things publicly. I think it goes back to the cancellation of Politically Incorrect. Which ironically was titled based on the previous terminology seized upon by gasbags, old farts, etc. to deflect well deserved criticism for saying stupid things. He's never been able to step back and realize it was a business decision by ABC to move away from the topical and go in another direction and the controversy only made it easier to convince some of the execs to go along and provided an angle for the gossip rags. Instead he's totally bought in to the idea that he was punished for saying true, but unpopular things, and ever since then it's been his go to explanation for any time he's criticized.