S05.E17: Fifty Shades of Betrayal

[RealReality]

10 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

So the better option was a broke guy with two baby mamas who wasn't even really that close to and taking care of his oldest child until recently and with who Candiace's mother still needed to help foot the bill for their home? Wow, such a prize. Monique may have been the decade long groupie girlfriend but she did eventually get the ring and the three kids (guaranteed child support until they're all 18 if they break up. Not that I'm saying that's why she had her kids). 

But this is kind of what I'm referring to.  This whole fight is being dragged into all other things. I'm sorry, but if we start playing the calling out these women and their love life game, they are ALL a hot mess except for maybe Karen. Yeah her and Ray are in that common situation right now where he's older and over it and they're in different places in their life. But by all accounts, they had a good marriage and relationship. And well Wendy's husband seems awesome as well. 

But Gizelle is back with Pastor Community Dick who she doesn't even know how many baby mamas he has, Ashley isn't worth mentioning, Robyn's in some continued saga with Juan and Candiace was the one who talked about Chris saying things to her like "you ain't shit, so stop acting like you think you're shit" while she throws his troubled relationship with his father in his face. Oh relationship goals those two are.

The most important thing in life, to me, is happiness.  Especially if you don't have kids.  If that's the guy that makes her the happiest than that is the best she can and should do.  

I wouldn't be happy with a guy who was broke.  I just wouldn't, that's me.  But if it DID make me happy to be with a broke guy that should and would be just fine.  

Honestly though, if someone could accept me, with ALL of my flaws as much as White Chris accepts Candace, I'd be delighted.  None of us is perfect and Candace can be mean.  But she apologized, they talked about it and he forgave her.  Finding someone who accepts me with all my flaws IS a relationship goal, for me at least.  They are equals.  Monique is not an equal to Chris S. and they both know it and its not even the relationship she signed up for.  

As for Candace's mom helping her with house payments, its definitely not ideal and she will feel better being independent, but I don't think its crazy rare to get help on a downpayment from your parents.  There are quite a few people I've known who have gotten help.    

[RealReality]

10 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

Monique did show remorse and was set to apologize when the big baby Candiace decided to take legal action like the coward she is.  Monique knew it was best not to say anything since Candy and mama would just use it against her.

There is not a lawyer or a person in the world who can stop you from apologizing if that's what you want to do.  

It may have been detrimental to her legal position, but part of doing the right thing is accepting the potential consequences.  If you only apologize if its strategically advantageous it doesn't seem like a very genuine apology or sentiment at all.   

And even if one were to accept this reasoning (I don't), not apologizing isn't the same as going onto make a song about how great it was that you beat someone up and sending people to harass the person you beat up.  Monique did more than just stay silent, she was quite active in continually berating Candace and defending her violent behavior.  

And one more thing - People talk about Candace's slick mouth and how it pushed Monique over the edge.  But Monique is the same person who invited Candace, and her slick mouth, onto her podcast and had the gall to get butt hurt when Candace decided not to do it.  If Candace was this upsetting to Monique, if Monique felt that Candace had "come for her family" and if Candace's slick mouth was so offensive that it would be used as later justification for beating her up, why invite her on a podcast with you?  Why get mad when she made the wise decision not to attend?  Why invite a slick mouth on your podcast when that very same slick mouth "compelled" you into violence?  Why would you invite someone on your podcast if you felt they betradyed you by "COMING FOR YOUR FAMILY?" Unless of course Candace's "slick mouth" has nothing to do with why Monique decided to become physically violent with her and Monique simply chose the easiest victim.  

[ErikaAlyson]

It seems to me that Candiace was really trying with Ashley this season. But Ashley is still angry about their past disputes. I don't think Ashley will ever give Candiace a chance at friendship. The only allies I think Candiace will probably have are Robyn,Wendy and maybe Gizelle a little. Because Ashley is always going to go against Candiace for Monique.

[drivethroo]

18 hours ago, Emma C said:

I'm sure that was very upsetting for C, but again, she got her hair pulled. That's hardly traumatic. That's a catfight. Doesn't mean that M was right, that whole thing was messed up. C totally provoked M. And I understand C not wanting to be around M anymore, but enough with the therapy and drama!

Having 5 producers pull Monique off Candiace, Monique uttering death threats against Candiace several times in front of the other cast members and charging at Candiace again, needing 2-3 more producers to hold her back isn't a simple "hair pull."  Monique will be facing the consequences of that.  While she won't face any legal consequences, thanks to Ashley*, while she may still be a cast member for Season 6, while she has gained a whole new fanbase, she will be facing consequences socially in that the social groups she may have wanted to get into for herself and her kids may not want anything to do with her or her kids.  And Monique definitely wanted to be in those groups because that's why she got close to Charrisse in the first place.

12 hours ago, RealReality said:

LOL, Monique waited for Chris because she had no other life options.  She was a failed rapper without any skills, talent or education.  A DECADE of dating likely means that all his better options left for greener pastures and Monique was the only one pathetic enough to stick around.  

And if he made sure to marry her AFTER he left the NFL, he is smarter than I give him credit for. 

Monique was a dim, failed rapper who was homeless and instead of going back college or going back home after her DC rap career** failed, went searching for rich man with her BFF Gigi, lucked up on Chris Samuels, spun a sob story, got hired as his assistant and manuevered the girlfriend he had at the time out of the picture (which is probably the real reason Mama Samuels don't like her).  Chris was smart enough to make Monique wait 10 years until after he retired from the NFL to marry her so she can't touch none of that NFL money.

12 hours ago, RealReality said:

Honestly though, if someone could accept me, with ALL of my flaws as much as White Chris accepts Candace, I'd be delighted.  None of us is perfect and Candace can be mean.  But she apologized, they talked about it and he forgave her.  Finding someone who accepts me with all my flaws IS a relationship goal, for me at least.  They are equals.  Monique is not an equal to Chris S. and they both know it and its not even the relationship she signed up for. 

Chris B. is pretty much the only person who can get in Candiace's face and make her sit down and shut up.  He has flaws, she has flaws but I think they're more of an equal pairing than any of the other couples on the show except for Wendy & Eddie.

12 hours ago, RealReality said:

As for Candace's mom helping her with house payments, its definitely not ideal and she will feel better being independent, but I don't think its crazy rare to get help on a downpayment from your parents.  There are quite a few people I've known who have gotten help.    

Let's talk about this.  Let's keep this real.  It is silly for any of the cast members, especially the 3 that married up, to slam Candiace for getting help from her mommy because they will be helping their kids just like Dorothy is helping Candiace. 

To keep it real, the main cast members who have a problem with Dorothy helping Candiace are Ashley and Monique, because their mommas couldn't/can't do anything for them.  Ashley's momma can't even keep a roof over her own head, much less help Ashley put a roof over hers.  If Monique's momma could help put a roof over her head, Monique wouldn't have been living in her car waiting for a Washington Football Team comeup.  Candiace & Chris just closed on a house almost 2 months ago.  Did Dorothy help Candiace with the downpayment? Probably, just like many parents around the country help their kids with the downpayment and just like RHOP cast will be helping their kids with the downpayment.

I work in a real estate office ...most of these millennials or older Gen Zs buying houses? Their momma & daddy are giving them the downpayment to get it.  You can best believe Gizelle, Karen, Monique & Ashley are going to give their kids the downpayments for their first house too (Robyn & Juan might be able to help their kids and if not, Robyn's parents will).  Jamal "gave" the girls a restaurant...you think he's not going to slip them some tithe & offerings for the downpayment on their first home, too?

11 hours ago, RealReality said:

And even if one were to accept this reasoning (I don't), not apologizing isn't the same as going onto make a song about how great it was that you beat someone up and sending people to harass the person you beat up.  Monique did more than just stay silent, she was quite active in continually berating Candace and defending her violent behavior.  

This is the main problem people have with Monique, moreso than the fight.  Ok, you beat the girl up, ok.  But now you are making songs about beating her up, siccing bloggers & fans on her and her mother, harassing people into not hiring Candiace for appearances because they don't want to deal with the headache or drama, and you're still doing it a year after this "hair pull."  If Candiace is a simple silly twit who needs to stop crying about this fight, then Monique is a simple silly twit who needs to stop boasting about this fight.

This is my main problem with this fight...people want Candiace to accept and face ALL of the consequences while Monique shouldn't have to accept ANY.

32 minutes ago, ErikaOnline said:

But Ashley is still angry about their past disputes. I don't think Ashley will ever give Candiace a chance at friendship.

Ashley needed a justification for why she wrote the statement against Candiace because Candiace had been trying to be civil and allegedly Ashley is going to be the new Monique in trying to provoke Candiace so she & Monique can prove Candiace deserved to get her ass beat.  Ashley will never give Candiace a chance at friendship because Candiace told the truth about her predator husband.

*I would not be surprised if it came out that Karen also wrote a statement against Candiace for Monique.

**Who goes to DC to start a rap career? Especially if you live in NJ? Why wouldn't you go to NYC to get it started? If you're trying to be a go-go singer, then DC is your place.  If you're trying to be a rapper, DC is probably not the place to be...you'd have better luck in Virginia than in DC. 

Edited November 27, 2020 by drivethroo

[Chatty Cake]

11 hours ago, RealReality said:

There is not a lawyer or a person in the world who can stop you from apologizing if that's what you want to do.  

It may have been detrimental to her legal position, but part of doing the right thing is accepting the potential consequences.  If you only apologize if its strategically advantageous it doesn't seem like a very genuine apology or sentiment at all.   

And even if one were to accept this reasoning (I don't), not apologizing isn't the same as going onto make a song about how great it was that you beat someone up and sending people to harass the person you beat up.  Monique did more than just stay silent, she was quite active in continually berating Candace and defending her violent behavior.  

And one more thing - People talk about Candace's slick mouth and how it pushed Monique over the edge.  But Monique is the same person who invited Candace, and her slick mouth, onto her podcast and had the gall to get butt hurt when Candace decided not to do it.  If Candace was this upsetting to Monique, if Monique felt that Candace had "come for her family" and if Candace's slick mouth was so offensive that it would be used as later justification for beating her up, why invite her on a podcast with you?  Why get mad when she made the wise decision not to attend?  Why invite a slick mouth on your podcast when that very same slick mouth "compelled" you into violence?  Why would you invite someone on your podcast if you felt they betradyed you by "COMING FOR YOUR FAMILY?" Unless of course Candace's "slick mouth" has nothing to do with why Monique decided to become physically violent with her and Monique simply chose the easiest victim.  

Monique was being the bigger person by inviting Candyass to the podcast. She really was trying to make the best of having to work with the little irritant. 

[Chatty Cake]

I don’t think Monique made comments about Candiaces mom the way Ashley did. There’s nothing wrong with Dorothy helping her lazy daughter but she doesn’t fit in as a housewife. Dorothy would have made a more entertaining housewife. 
I’m not an Ashley fan but it was about time someone defended Monique with that letter for the court. 

[albarino]

On 11/23/2020 at 10:29 AM, Neurochick said:

YMMV, but I didn't see anything wrong with the dominatrix party.  

To me there's a world of difference between fighting and wearing dominatrix gear.

Agree to disagree.  We had eggplants for crying out loud.  

[PhilMarlowe2]

On 11/25/2020 at 6:14 PM, truthaboutluv said:

Not to speak for anyone else but I honestly think most people are like me where despite acknowledging Monique was dead wrong in her actions, just still can't stand Candiace and so frankly are just indifferent about the situation. It's not a not wanting Monique to not have consequences because hell, I didn't even realize both suits had been dropped. It's just plain indifference.

And it seems to me that much like the women and Karen, some feel posters can't have that reaction. That there needs to be some outrage about Monique's actions and any mentioning of Candiace's being unpleasant means taking Monique's side or blaming Candiace. Truthfully, at this point for me, I just don't care about the situation.

Thank you!

[RealReality]

15 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

Monique was being the bigger person by inviting Candyass to the podcast. She really was trying to make the best of having to work with the little irritant. 

If its a detriment and a bother for you to invite someone to your podcast you should be delighted when they cancel, not offended and butthurt. 

And if Monique wanted to be the bigger person, she would have stopped coming for Candace over, and over and over.  At the sip n' see, at the lakehouse.  If Monique is being the bigger person, why not squash the drama and stop coming after Candace?

Edited November 28, 2020 by RealReality

[RealReality]

14 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

I don’t think Monique made comments about Candiaces mom the way Ashley did. There’s nothing wrong with Dorothy helping her lazy daughter but she doesn’t fit in as a housewife. Dorothy would have made a more entertaining housewife. 
I’m not an Ashley fan but it was about time someone defended Monique with that letter for the court. 

 

I think Candace fits in because this show is about drama, shade and arguments.  Being quick on your toes with a comeback.  Monique doesn't understand how to use her words because she just isn't as....quick as the other women.  She has had two good and shady moments, both of them with Gizelle (the four homes line and the ghost reader line).  

Everyone was bored at her lakehouse trip until the other girls made it fun.  To me, that shows that Monique's interests are diametrically opposed to those of the other women.  Even when Ashley invited the girls to her beach house everyone had a good time until creepy Michael Darby showed up.  I think the most interesting thing about Monique is T'Challa.  And when you're upstaged by a bird....I don't know man. 

 

[Chatty Cake]

4 hours ago, RealReality said:

 

I think Candace fits in because this show is about drama, shade and arguments.  Being quick on your toes with a comeback.  Monique doesn't understand how to use her words because she just isn't as....quick as the other women.  She has had two good and shady moments, both of them with Gizelle (the four homes line and the ghost reader line).  

Everyone was bored at her lakehouse trip until the other girls made it fun.  To me, that shows that Monique's interests are diametrically opposed to those of the other women.  Even when Ashley invited the girls to her beach house everyone had a good time until creepy Michael Darby showed up.  I think the most interesting thing about Monique is T'Challa.  And when you're upstaged by a bird....I don't know man. 

 

We will have to agree to disagree on this. I find Monique and her husband enjoyable to watch. Candiace has been beyond boring this season. The only scenes that were funny were the ones with her mom on her case about marrying Chris amd that was last season.  This Portugal trip, I don’t see this fun girls group that you see. They may have had fun at the dominatrix party but that ended bad with Ashley and Candiace. Karen and Gizelle do not,like each other. Wendy and Karen do not like each other, 

I see your point that Monique should keep it to insults with Candy but Candy takes it to screaming and being in her face which is going to cause a reaction at some point. I don’t see Candiace having any good one liners. She seems like the dim one to me.

 

[RealReality]

9 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

We will have to agree to disagree on this. I find Monique and her husband enjoyable to watch. Candiace has been beyond boring this season. The only scenes that were funny were the ones with her mom on her case about marrying Chris amd that was last season.  This Portugal trip, I don’t see this fun girls group that you see. They may have had fun at the dominatrix party but that ended bad with Ashley and Candiace. Karen and Gizelle do not,like each other. Wendy and Karen do not like each other, 

I see your point that Monique should keep it to insults with Candy but Candy takes it to screaming and being in her face which is going to cause a reaction at some point. I don’t see Candiace having any good one liners. She seems like the dim one to me.

 

Yeah, to me the portugal trip looked like a blast.  The zip line up the mountain, the whole riff about the poncha, Wendy losing her mind over those snakes, all the girls sitting around watching her on camera to see if she would lose it, the party, that sled down the hill, the impromptu photo shoot at the water, Wendy mysteriously showing up to a bar in her robe, Karen saying that Jamal lives in Gizelles phone (THAT was some first class shade).   There was even the requisite drama on the first night with Ashley trying as hard as humanly possible to get Candace to blow up on her, and then Robyn calling Ashley out on her shit.  For the majority of the trip it really looked like everyone was having fun. 

[Neurochick]

On 11/26/2020 at 12:26 PM, Chatty Cake said:

Monique may have waited for Chris but it’s just a testament to their love. What a beautiful family!

I think this is the real reason people are on Monique's side.  She's married and has children, and to some people being married and having children means they are more valuable than other people.  As I have said over and over about Monique....she got lucky, case closed. 

But why would this woman with a loving husband and beautiful children act like a low class teenager?  Why would a woman like Monique resort to violence?  On RHONYC Tinsley never resorted to violence and believe me, Dorinda deserved several slaps for what she said to her. 

I mean if I was married to a man I loved, had beautiful homes and beautiful children, I sure wouldn't let some non entity like Candiace upset me just by saying "GOOD NIGHT."

[Chatty Cake]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I think this is the real reason people are on Monique's side.  She's married and has children, and to some people being married and having children means they are more valuable than other people.  As I have said over and over about Monique....she got lucky, case closed. 

But why would this woman with a loving husband and beautiful children act like a low class teenager?  Why would a woman like Monique resort to violence?  On RHONYC Tinsley never resorted to violence and believe me, Dorinda deserved several slaps for what she said to her. 

I mean if I was married to a man I loved, had beautiful homes and beautiful children, I sure wouldn't let some non entity like Candiace upset me just by saying "GOOD NIGHT."

I don’t think any one of the housewives are more valuable than another. I do think several of the housewives are jealous of Monique. She is a real housewife and has it all.  You have a good point, she shouldn’t have risked her family for that annoying little gnat Candass, but she shouldn’t be penalized either.

[Lynnlynnlynn586]

On 11/24/2020 at 6:52 AM, Chatty Cake said:

I applaud Karen for sticking by Monique. Candiace was looking for and started the fight. 

I 100 percent agree!!!👍👍👍👍

[qtpye]

5 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I think this is the real reason people are on Monique's side.  She's married and has children, and to some people being married and having children means they are more valuable than other people.  As I have said over and over about Monique....she got lucky, case closed. 

But why would this woman with a loving husband and beautiful children act like a low class teenager?  Why would a woman like Monique resort to violence?  On RHONYC Tinsley never resorted to violence and believe me, Dorinda deserved several slaps for what she said to her. 

I mean if I was married to a man I loved, had beautiful homes and beautiful children, I sure wouldn't let some non entity like Candiace upset me just by saying "GOOD NIGHT."

 

3 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

I don’t think any one of the housewives are more valuable than another. I do think several of the housewives are jealous of Monique. She is a real housewife and has it all.  You have a good point, she shouldn’t have risked her family for that annoying little gnat Candass, but she shouldn’t be penalized either.

I think more importantly, Monique is beautiful and approachable. She looks like a model and seems like the "round the way" girl you can kiki with.

Beautiful and charismatic people get away with more in life...it is unfair but it is often true.

Candiass looks and acts like a stuck up princess (by her own admission).

This is why Monique can be dead wrong and people are on her side.

Also, there is the untold truth that no on wants to bother saying. If it is easy to get a rich millionaire to wife you up than more people would be married to millionaires. I think a lot of people respect Monique's "hustle" for marrying a successful man even though we all want to believe women are judged in today's world by their own abilities and not who they marry.

I know in my family it was expected that all the women would marry "well", even though we had our own education and careers. You bring a man like White Chris or Jamal home and you would be considered a failure. I am not saying this is a good attitude to have but it is not uncommon in certain circles.

Candiass was born with many privileges by having money and two well educated parents. Yet, her man has baby mamas and has been a dead beat dad to at least one of his children, again by his own admission.

Also, even with her education, Candiass would be living hand to mouth if not for this show and her mama supporting her before she came on the show.

In our culture there is a respect for "Monique" types and annoyance for "Candiass" types.

[Neurochick]

16 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

You have a good point, she shouldn’t have risked her family for that annoying little gnat Candass, but she shouldn’t be penalized either.

I disagree.  If you decide to risk your family for someone like Candiace you are a fool.

Happy people don't attack others, don't act like no class teenagers.

And I don't think Monique had any great hustle to "catch" Chris.  It was nothing but DUMB LUCK.

Edited November 29, 2020 by Neurochick

[Sun-Bun]

2 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I disagree.  If you decide to risk your family for someone like Candiace you are a fool.

Happy people don't attack others, don't act like no class teenagers.

I go back and forth on the blame game here, especially since Candiace is the kind of yappy chihuahua type who’s practically begging to be stomped. 
But ultimately it was beyond comprehension that Monique so aggressively snapped on her the way she did. She has way too much to lose just to have wasted nearly everything on that twit; now she likely lost her once secure spot on this show, not to mention likely put unnecessary strain on her marriage. Makes me wonder just how much wine she’d been guzzling before she suddenly decided to go ham and death grip Candiace’s wig. 

Either way, it was in super poor taste and such an extremely idiotic move on Mo’s part. Yeah, great job giving her supposed nemesis a sympathetic new storyline!

[Chatty Cake]

I’m guessing Gizelle may have put the gnat up to antagonizing Monique. The way she’s been coddling her on this recent episode points in that direction.She’s very jealous of anyone who has a good marriage and family. She’s jealous of Karen and Monique. She’s not jealous of Robyn because Juan was a known cheater like her Jamal. 
I just hope Monique does not get fired. If anyone should go it should be Candyass and Gizzy. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Chatty Cake

[dosodog]

This is the 2nd time Monique has resorted to getting physical in a verbal argument. 

I'm surprised that Candace's lawyer did not get a statement from Robyn, once Ashley revealed she wrote one.  Maybe one of the posters with legal knowledge could explain why or why not?

Because, I think it would show the court a pattern of behavior choices Monique makes when she gets mad.

[Neurochick]

I think it's stupid that anybody is jealous of....well anyone. 

Don't compare your insides with someone else's outsides.

If Monique's insides were cool, she would NOT have gone after Candiace. 

If Gizelle and Candiace and everybody is SOOOOO jealous of Monique, then why was Monique so easily provoked?  If Monique has such a perfect life, then why fight?

Happy, sane people don't get into physical altercations unless their life is in danger. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Neurochick

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, dosodog said:

This is the 2nd time Monique has resorted to getting physical in a verbal argument. 

And as I recall in that situation, Monique said, standing a number of feet away from Robyn, "you better not come in my face and say that", at which point Robyn proceeded to do just that and come stand right up to her face, saying "and what".

Similar to how when Robyn and Ashley had their drama seasons past, when Ashley told Robyn to get her finger out of her face, Robyn proceeded to shove it further in Ashley's face and make clear she'd put her hand wherever the fuck she wanted. And I believe Robyn was the one who made clear at one of their reunions that were it not for cameras present, she'd have had no problems giving Ashley a beat down. 

No, none of them crossed the line to full on hitting another person and yes, for that Monique is the complete worse to many and should be dragged, tarred and feathered. Fine, cool. But imo, the constant, "Monique has always been violent because of x and y and z argument" is faulty when many of these women have been combative as hell towards and about each other. 

As for the being jealous of each other - no, none of these women should be jealous of the other because all of their lives are messy in some way. But the straight up truth is many of them have had their petty jealousies toward each other at various points.

As much as I like Gizelle's messiness, anyone that does not recognize Gizelle for the "petty, bitter, hateful mean girl who resents anyone prettier, younger and richer because once upon a time she was that person" woman that she is, is being naïve. 

A lot of people have tried to say Monique was boasting about her four houses and so she was being obnoxious and Gizelle was right to be annoyed by her. But I have watched that clip of Gizelle and Monique meeting for the first time and straight facts, Gizelle's entire body language and face was straight haterade before Monique said a word. Her mean girl shield went up immediately. She just needed any excuse to justify her petty hatred. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by truthaboutluv

[PhilMarlowe2]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

Similar to how when Robyn and Ashley had their drama seasons past, when Ashley told Robyn to get her finger out of her face, Robyn proceeded to shove it further in Ashley's face and make clear she'd put her hand wherever the fuck she wanted. And I believe Robyn was the one who made clear at one of their reunions that were it not for cameras present, she'd have had no problems giving Ashley a beat down. 

No, none of them crossed the line to full on hitting another person and yes, for that Monique is the complete worse to many and should be dragged, tarred and feathered. Fine, cool. But imo, the constant, "Monique has always been violent because of x and y and z argument" is faulty when many of these women have been combative as hell towards and about each other. 

Exactly. And that's why I feel so many of these hypothetical situations people come up with ("If I come up to you and tell you to run me over with your car, are you going to do it?") are false equivalences. Monique and Candiace were both so heated from the jump that that night - they were both so filled with anger, they were both so clearly out to get one another. These were two peers of equal power who clearly hated each other in equal measure - they were baiting each other, goading each other, Monique twirled Candiace's hair, Candiace flicked Monique's vest. So, yes, Monique ultimately has only herself to blame for getting physical - and, yes, Monique needs to take a serious look at how and why she let herself get to that violent point - that said, Candiace knew what she was doing when she repeatedly said, "You gonna drag me?" in that situation. It was not some casual throwback to a past event said in a calm way. It was a volatile and combative situation that was steadily escalating when Candiace repeatedly threw that out there. And just like Monique needs to take a good, hard look at how she let herself succumb to violence, Candiace needs to take a good, hard look at why she was so filled with rage that night and why she was knowingly escalating an already volatile situation - especially when she is someone herself who has literally had to be held down by her husband to keep from getting physical in the past.

[albarino]

5 hours ago, Neurochick said:

If Monique's insides were cool, she would NOT have gone after Candiace. 

If Gizelle and Candiace and everybody is SOOOOO jealous of Monique, then why was Monique so easily provoked?  If Monique has such a perfect life, then why fight?

Great point.  I think Monique needs to find her own Grande Dame inner self.  She isn't there yet but she'll get there.

Edited November 30, 2020 by albarino

[Chatty Cake]

1 hour ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

Exactly. And that's why I feel so many of these hypothetical situations people come up with ("If I come up to you and tell you to run me over with your car, are you going to do it?") are false equivalences. Monique and Candiace were both so heated from the jump that that night - they were both so filled with anger, they were both so clearly out to get one another. These were two peers of equal power who clearly hated each other in equal measure - they were baiting each other, goading each other, Monique twirled Candiace's hair, Candiace flicked Monique's vest. So, yes, Monique ultimately has only herself to blame for getting physical - and, yes, Monique needs to take a serious look at how and why she let herself get to that violent point - that said, Candiace knew what she was doing when she repeatedly said, "You gonna drag me?" in that situation. It was not some casual throwback to a past event said in a calm way. It was a volatile and combative situation that was steadily escalating when Candiace repeatedly threw that out there. And just like Monique needs to take a good, hard look at how she let herself succumb to violence, Candiace needs to take a good, hard look at why she was so filled with rage that night and why she was knowingly escalating an already volatile situation - especially when she is someone herself who has literally had to be held down by her husband to keep from getting physical in the past.

Rewatching Candys phony tears when Ashley told her about the character letter.

She’s really playing the victim and not taking any accountability for her big annoying mouth. And all the crap she’s posted on social media, she needs to be careful or she’ll get more than a wig shift from a person less ladylike than Monique was with her. 

 

 

[Chatty Cake]

Why is Crazy Candy calling Monique a pathological liar? She is no such thing. What an asshole crying and claiming anxiety when she brought the fight on her damn stupid self! What a moron! No wonder her mommy has to support her. She’s a giant baby!

Candiace is so intolerable I would side with Ash and the butt grabber! 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Chatty Cake

[RealReality]

10 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

I’m guessing Gizelle may have put the gnat up to antagonizing Monique. The way she’s been coddling her on this recent episode points in that direction.She’s very jealous of anyone who has a good marriage and family. She’s jealous of Karen and Monique. She’s not jealous of Robyn because Juan was a known cheater like her Jamal. 
I just hope Monique does not get fired. If anyone should go it should be Candyass and Gizzy. 

LOL, it was Ashley who asked the question that started it all, not Gizelle.  

I also don't buy Gizelle as the Svengali of the situation because Candace didn't say anything that bad.  Candace didn't go all in on Monique, this whole thing just started when she said she still loved Monique even though Monique pretended to be asleep when Candace was leaving the lakehouse (and frankly, I think thats exactly what happened and even Chris looked embarrassed by Monique shutting her eyes and refusing to open them like a five year old).  

If Monique cannot handle the relatively mild thing Candace was saying to her that night and she cannot show any remorse and is bragging about her behavior, its a matter of time before she tries it again because she doesn't think its wrong.  She really thinks that if someone annoys her, she should respond with physical aggression.  

[RealReality]

5 hours ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

Exactly. And that's why I feel so many of these hypothetical situations people come up with ("If I come up to you and tell you to run me over with your car, are you going to do it?") are false equivalences. Monique and Candiace were both so heated from the jump that that night - they were both so filled with anger, they were both so clearly out to get one another. These were two peers of equal power who clearly hated each other in equal measure - they were baiting each other, goading each other, Monique twirled Candiace's hair, Candiace flicked Monique's vest. So, yes, Monique ultimately has only herself to blame for getting physical - and, yes, Monique needs to take a serious look at how and why she let herself get to that violent point - that said, Candiace knew what she was doing when she repeatedly said, "You gonna drag me?" in that situation. It was not some casual throwback to a past event said in a calm way. It was a volatile and combative situation that was steadily escalating when Candiace repeatedly threw that out there. And just like Monique needs to take a good, hard look at how she let herself succumb to violence, Candiace needs to take a good, hard look at why she was so filled with rage that night and why she was knowingly escalating an already volatile situation - especially when she is someone herself who has literally had to be held down by her husband to keep from getting physical in the past.

I didn't see that at all.  What I saw was Candace, in response to Ashley's question as to whether she and Monique were okay, say that she still loved Monique, even though Monique pretended to be asleep when she tried to say bye to her at the lakehouse.  

By Housewives standard that was some of the sunniest shade I've EVER heard.  She didn't attack Monique, she didn't imply or say anything horrible about Monique at all.  For everyone who says that Candace is vicious with her words, those were very, very tame.  

Monique's reaction was over the top and she took it to 100 for no reason because the comment was so innocuous.  So I didn't see two people who were equally ready to pop off.  

I also don't think that the hypotheticals are false equivalences.  Even if you and someone else are equally upset, you shouldn't do whatever they tell you to do, and if you do, its your decision, and your responsibility, not anyone elses because they "goaded you" or "made you do it".  If a woman gets up in a man's face during an argument and says "fine, fuck you, hit me motherfucker, I dare you!" I still wouldn't be on his side if he hit her. 

[RealReality]

7 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

And as I recall in that situation, Monique said, standing a number of feet away from Robyn, "you better not come in my face and say that", at which point Robyn proceeded to do just that and come stand right up to her face, saying "and what".

Similar to how when Robyn and Ashley had their drama seasons past, when Ashley told Robyn to get her finger out of her face, Robyn proceeded to shove it further in Ashley's face and make clear she'd put her hand wherever the fuck she wanted. And I believe Robyn was the one who made clear at one of their reunions that were it not for cameras present, she'd have had no problems giving Ashley a beat down. 

No, none of them crossed the line to full on hitting another person and yes, for that Monique is the complete worse to many and should be dragged, tarred and feathered. Fine, cool. But imo, the constant, "Monique has always been violent because of x and y and z argument" is faulty when many of these women have been combative as hell towards and about each other. 

As for the being jealous of each other - no, none of these women should be jealous of the other because all of their lives are messy in some way. But the straight up truth is many of them have had their petty jealousies toward each other at various points.

As much as I like Gizelle's messiness, anyone that does not recognize Gizelle for the "petty, bitter, hateful mean girl who resents anyone prettier, younger and richer because once upon a time she was that person" woman that she is, is being naïve. 

A lot of people have tried to say Monique was boasting about her four houses and so she was being obnoxious and Gizelle was right to be annoyed by her. But I have watched that clip of Gizelle and Monique meeting for the first time and straight facts, Gizelle's entire body language and face was straight haterade before Monique said a word. Her mean girl shield went up immediately. She just needed any excuse to justify her petty hatred. 

I remember Monique having an umbrella right at Robyn's throat and threatening to choke her out.  And then Robyn laughed in her face, told her to "do it" and Monique beat feet.  

Had it happened in a vacuum and had it been the only time, I dont' think it would be that big a deal.  But once a person actually resorts to violence I think its fair to look at their past comments through a different lens.  I can say I'd kick Clarance Thomas and Ben Carson in the nuts, and neither of them should be scared and everyone should assume I'm joking.  But, if I'm on the news getting arrested for punching Tomi Lahren in the face, then you should look at my prior statements through a different lens and maybe take those statements a little more seriously in light of the fact that I have shown the willingness to become violent. 

 

 

[byrd]

On 11/25/2020 at 5:41 PM, Neurochick said:

I get what you're saying, but most of those people end up one of three ways, jail, institution or dead. 

But Monique isn't one of those people.  She has a lot to lose.

 

So true she does have lot to lose, my statement was in reference to the people that are saying just because someone provokes you with their words, you do not have the right to fight them .  I just wanted to make it clear that a lot of people out here don't care about anything, so don't be stupid and put your life danger . 

[J80134]

We get it Ashley. Your tits are full of milk and your sex life is full of threesomes. I feel so bad for the girls she picked up when they found out that the hot bait was leading them to her slobbering, handsy, old yuck of a husband.

Karen says she has a vibrating pillow because that is the most ladylike sex toy she could think of. I bet somewhere deep in the back of her closet there is a 12-in manhandler and a tube of la dame scented lube. And maybe one of those blowjob simulators for ray to use on his b-day.

candyass was the only one who pulled off the dominatrix look. Everyone else looked like they got advice on thier outfit from the golden girls. I was waiting for them to gather around the kitchen table and break out a cheesecake as the big trip finale.

 

[Rlb8031]

On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2020 at 7:43 PM, PhilMarlowe2 said:

Exactly. And that's why I feel so many of these hypothetical situations people come up with ("If I come up to you and tell you to run me over with your car, are you going to do it?") are false equivalences. Monique and Candiace were both so heated from the jump that that night - they were both so filled with anger, they were both so clearly out to get one another. These were two peers of equal power who clearly hated each other in equal measure - they were baiting each other, goading each other, Monique twirled Candiace's hair, Candiace flicked Monique's vest. So, yes, Monique ultimately has only herself to blame for getting physical - and, yes, Monique needs to take a serious look at how and why she let herself get to that violent point - that said, Candiace knew what she was doing when she repeatedly said, "You gonna drag me?" in that situation. It was not some casual throwback to a past event said in a calm way. It was a volatile and combative situation that was steadily escalating when Candiace repeatedly threw that out there. And just like Monique needs to take a good, hard look at how she let herself succumb to violence, Candiace needs to take a good, hard look at why she was so filled with rage that night and why she was knowingly escalating an already volatile situation - especially when she is someone herself who has literally had to be held down by her husband to keep from getting physical in the past.

^^^^^This!!!

I'm also going to point out that while there is this narrative about Candiace being some suburban princess, Candiace attended Howard University. I don't have to guess that she did not engage with the girls there with the same level of turnup that she is showing now. Candiace would have been dragged across the yard by her wig with the very strong wig glue if she did. So, part of the reason that I'm side-eyeing her now, is that this behavior of saying whatever the hell you want, when you want, to whom you want doesn't appear to be consistent with her past experience. And the fact that her momma had no compunction slapping her upside her head in public means that Candiace has on more than once occasion said something slick and been dealt a physical response. So again, this whole narrative of clutching her pearls and uttering "Well I never..." whenever this fight comes up seems slightly contrived. 

[Lynnlynnlynn586]

On 11/29/2020 at 8:57 PM, Chatty Cake said:

Why is Crazy Candy calling Monique a pathological liar? She is no such thing. What an asshole crying and claiming anxiety when she brought the fight on her damn stupid self! What a moron! No wonder her mommy has to support her. She’s a giant baby!

Candiace is so intolerable I would side with Ash and the butt grabber! 

I 100 percent agree candiace pushes and pushed people to their breaking point maybe next time she will shut that big ass mouth of hers...just sayin