S15.E19: Inherit the Earth

[Castiels Cat]

56 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

And he got to celebrate some holdays they rarely did. And wear his Scooby nightshirt and cap, which shouldn't exist in the real world. And Sam carving a pumpkin when he hates Halloween. 

I could actually live with this ending, though I'd prefer the fever dream/coma began at the end of 11x23.

The more I think of it... the tap dancing dream, meeting the movie monster/killer he was so excited by, the fear (instilled in S2 on) that he would have to kill Sam one day, or that Sam might kill him. His utter disappointment with Chuck back in S11. It could all be made to fit.

Yeah... those are good examples too. I have thought about this before. Previously hoping that there was maybe a method going on to the hack job before us. And maybe Dean's storyline hadn't just been thrown away like nothing.

For me once he was hit in the head it had been a hot mess and pushing a lot of his particular buttons.

I am afraid seasons 11-12  were mundane, boring and real.

 

[Terese]

59 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

This is true. There was a lot of playback of bits of earlier episodes with a twist. I have wondered before if we were in Dean's head still after he was hit by the gorgon and this has all been a coma dream. 

I just don't care enough to look at the plots of all the episodes... but it all really fell apart when Dean was hit in the head. At that point things stopped making sense.

Dean's greatest fears: losing Mary and Jack missing control leaving him being the one to take Jack down play out  Then he learns that God is the biggest dick of all and there is no free will.

Season 15 starts like a grade Z horror movie. Bits of old cases get regurgitated. Dialogue like a telamundo which Dean loves.

So... What...

Dean wakes up with Michael  and that is what they deal with to end the series... Enter the Malak Box.

Maybe, had this season not been so heavy handed with the Chuck is Kripke metaphor, who needed to be reduced to the maturity of a 2 year old having a tantrum, so a 3 year old would seem like a reasonable replacement. 

All being a coma nightmare would restore Sam and Dean's agency, redeem Chuck and nullify Jack's ascension to Godhood, while irritating the 30% that comprises the sum total of Dabb's fanbase. 

I genuinely believe any concepts from season 14 were dropped the moment the show was to end in 15. Furthermore, even if they were to present this season as Dean's anxiety, which does explain the complete lack of autonomy and any hint proactive behavior,  it doesn't undo the damage. Dream or not, we saw Sam and Dean nerfed in the Heroes Journey. We saw them sitting around the bunker waiting to be told what to do, or have someone else do it. 

So, a just kidding wink to the viewers before burying alive a beloved character at the bottom of the ocean for eternity? Yikes!

[Castiels Cat]

10 hours ago, Terese said:

Maybe, had this season not been so heavy handed with the Chuck is Kripke metaphor, who needed to be reduced to the maturity of a 2 year old having a tantrum, so a 3 year old would seem like a reasonable replacement. 

All being a coma nightmare would restore Sam and Dean's agency, redeem Chuck and nullify Jack's ascension to Godhood, while irritating the 30% that comprises the sum total of Dabb's fanbase. 

I genuinely believe any concepts from season 14 were dropped the moment the show was to end in 15. Furthermore, even if they were to present this season as Dean's anxiety, which does explain the complete lack of autonomy and any hint proactive behavior,  it doesn't undo the damage. Dream or not, we saw Sam and Dean nerfed in the Heroes Journey. We saw them sitting around the bunker waiting to be told what to do, or have someone else do it. 

So, a just kidding wink to the viewers before burying alive a beloved character at the bottom of the ocean for eternity? Yikes!

It's long been a theory that Jensen was hated by the writers. I was hesitant to buy into this until well circa now. What happened in seasons 14 and 15 is inexcapable and inexcusable. So yes. I  totally see them throwing Dean into the ocean until Jensen resurrects the show with good writers. 

I have a gut feeling that whatever it is it will be meta with a twist... and it will not make up for the shyte they have been serving 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Castiels Cat

[KayCordingly]

Hey wait... speaking of this episode mirroring Swan Song, poorly... did someone at some point during the episode say "hey assbutts"? I have a vague memory of this happening.

[Terese]

36 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

It's long been a theory that Jensen was hated by the writers. I was hesitant to buy into this until well circa now. What happened in seasons 14 and 15 is inexcapable and inexcusable. So yes. I  totally see them throwing Dean into the ocean until Jensen resurrects the show with good writers. 

I have a gut feeling rhatcwhatecer it is it will be meta with a twist... and it will not make up for the shyte they have been serving 

Lol. Funny not funny. You made me laugh derisively.

Wouldn't that make Jensen ala Dean a heroic martyr?  All of this is so contemptuous, it's practically impossible to tell the difference between bad, angry, hack writer and clever  saboteur.  Ineptly offed by a vampire seems likely, while Jack does a voice over about what fools these humans be. I hate meta. I have to think about what idiotic ending would most pull me out of the story. Although, I have spent at least 2 seasons pulled out. 

[falltime]

1 hour ago, KayCordingly said:

Hey wait... speaking of this episode mirroring Swan Song, poorly... did someone at some point during the episode say "hey assbutts"? I have a vague memory of this happening.

Someone say "asswipe" or asshat." Can't remember which.

[PAForrest]

6 hours ago, falltime said:

Someone say "asswipe" or asshat." Can't remember which.

Two Minute Death Betty called them "asshats" when she came out of the room after reading the book - I think.

But sure, that line and the beat down by Chuckles are straight up ripped off from SS. Drabb can't even pretend it's not a ripoff since he was there in season five too.

Poor Dean, getting the same crappy passive observer role not once but twice.

Edited November 16, 2020 by PAForrest

[slaterain]

On 11/13/2020 at 4:36 PM, ParadoxLost said:

But I wasn't actually talking about the montage.  The score used to highlight the emotional beats (that were not there) and general epic nature (which also absent) of the final confrontation between Jack and Sam and Dean and Chuck was a travesty.  A travesty that belongs in a Hallmark movie.   A travesty that made the final montage look good by comparison.  And I agree that the montage was totally lackluster too although it made me sad about what happened to this show.

I agreed - I was talking about both the music throughout the episode and the montage! Although I could have written it better to be clearer. the bad music choices kept pulling me out of the episode and made me cringe. seems like some budget constraints must have impacted their song choices - giving them the benefit of the doubt although I am not sure that is warranted.  

[NougatJack]

3 hours ago, PAForrest said:

Poor Dean, getting the same crappy passive observer role not once but twice.

Au contraire, this time Dean got the active role as one of the guys who actively let Chuck beat them up!

[ahrtee]

17 minutes ago, NougatJack said:

Au contraire, this time Dean got the active role as one of the guys who actively let Chuck beat them up!

Isn't that the same "active role" he had in Swan Song, actively letting Sam/Lucifer beat him up?

[gonzosgirrl]

20 minutes ago, NougatJack said:

Au contraire, this time Dean got the active role as one of the guys who actively let Chuck beat them up!

LOL! I think we have very different definitions of active.

[Aeryn13]

21 minutes ago, NougatJack said:

Au contraire, this time Dean got the active role as one of the guys who actively let Chuck beat them up!

The active role would be the one who took out Chuck, not the canon fodder before.

[NougatJack]

7 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Isn't that the same "active role" he had in Swan Song, actively letting Sam/Lucifer beat him up?

Exactly! 
And it was a very smart move, holding out until Jack could absorb enough power to stop Chuck. 

[Aeryn13]

7 minutes ago, NougatJack said:

Exactly! 
And it was a very smart move, holding out until Jack could absorb enough power to stop Chuck. 

But that's not active to me. That's the same "role" a worm serves on a fishing hook. So much for being the heroes of the story. Meh.

[gonzosgirrl]

26 minutes ago, NougatJack said:

Exactly! 
And it was a very smart move, holding out until Jack could absorb enough power to stop Chuck. 

If I were a Jack fan, I might be this magnanimous too, since my pet character ascended to God-hood and stole the heroics away from the actual leads of the show. But I'm not. So I won't.

26 minutes ago, NougatJack said:

Exactly! 
And it was a very smart move, holding out until Jack could absorb enough power to stop Chuck. 

That's called being a sacrificial lamb, not an active role at all.

Edited November 16, 2020 by gonzosgirrl

[NougatJack]

10 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

But that's not active to me. That's the same "role" a worm serves on a fishing hook. So much for being the heroes of the story. Meh.

It‘s like football (or maybe soccer for you): sometimes you have to pass the ball to another player who can shoot the ball into the goal. That doesn‘t mean that you a not a hero. That‘s teamwork. Teamwork has always been important for our four heroes of the show. They are not TEAM free will for nothing.

[PAForrest]

7 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

If I were a Jack fan, I might be this magnanimous too, since my pet character ascended to God-hood and stole the heroics away from the actual leads of the show. But I'm not. So I don't...

That's called being a sacrificial lamb, not an active role at all.

No, standing/laying there allowing yourself to be pummeled is not "active" at all. It wasn't in Suck Song, it isn't here, and you're not going to sell it that way. They were essentially turtles on their backs flailing away.

And for all their "sacrifice", the smug brat doesn't even thank them. Just takes his shiny power toys and walks away.

[Aeryn13]

6 minutes ago, NougatJack said:

It‘s like football (or maybe soccer for you): sometimes you have to pass the ball to another player who can shoot the ball into the goal. That doesn‘t mean that you a not a hero. That‘s teamwork. Teamwork has always been important for our four heroes of the show. They are not TEAM free will for nothing.

That wasn't teamwork in the slightest. Nougat was the sole important power player and only one who mattered. He upstaged the Winchesters in the final big battle of their own show. Which is good news if you watched this show for Nougatnatural, bad news for anyone who didn't. 

Also, the show only ever had two main characters never four. Side characters can get side heroics.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Aeryn13

[Casseiopeia]

5 hours ago, PAForrest said:

Two Minute Death Betty

😅 Now officially my favorite character name ever...

[ukgirl71]

Is it wrong that I enjoy winding up the more thin-skinned fans on FB by saying they might need to bring back the show to fix it after the finale?  😝

[gonzosgirrl]

Reading a recap, I saw this. Not gonna lie, I missed both things when watching live. The price of trying to see whilst my eyes are rolling out of my head, I suppose. But the diner is called Sammy's, and the beer tap that Dean turned off has his FBBC logo.

Also, this occurred to me - if Nougat Boy was a power vacuum, sucking the life force out of the plants and such, right up to arch-angel juice, why didn't he sap Dean and Sam's energy too?

[KayCordingly]

2 hours ago, PAForrest said:

No, standing/laying there allowing yourself to be pummeled is not "active" at all. It wasn't in Suck Song, it isn't here, and you're not going to sell it that way. They were essentially turtles on their backs flailing away.

Thank you for that mental image of Sam & Dean as turtles on their backs, their little arms and legs flailing away. 😂

[Smad]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Also, this occurred to me - if Nougat Boy was a power vacuum, sucking the life force out of the plants and such, right up to arch-angel juice, why didn't he sap Dean and Sam's energy too?

He should definitely have been sapping their souls. But shh, you are not supposed to apply logic.

[Bobcatkitten]

I actually googled it and Hastings Minnesota is 9 hours from the bunker. Right they didn't speak during nine hours. Didn't tell them Cas was gone. Just so lazy. The writers backed themselves in a corner and basically sucked. 

 

My understanding is the final episode will really have nothing to do with what we just saw. Which leaves a lot left unsaid. If they don't talk about why Cas wasn't brought back it will be the biggest hole ever.

[PAForrest]

1 hour ago, Bobcatkitten said:

My understanding is the final episode will really have nothing to do with what we just saw. Which leaves a lot left unsaid. If they don't talk about why Cas wasn't brought back it will be the biggest hole ever.

Oh, there are other holes. Like when Ruby informed Cas that the Empty was actually mental torture porn - not a nothing sleep at all. So if Drabb's little pissant insert Gack can't be bothered to at least save Cas, the guy who spent the last four years caring almost solely about Gack - and at this point there's no reason to believe Gack cares, because he made it clear he didn't care to be involved - then what a truly crappy ending for one fan favorite.

Then there's the announcement early in the season by the 6 angels who were left that Heaven was dying because there weren't enough angels to keep it running, and when there were no more, Heaven is no more - and thus all the souls go nowhere. Again, another horrible ending for one or both of the Winchesters if there isn't even a reward of peace in Heaven. And Heaven itself needs to be restructured from the locked door memorex cages. This is where I thought the Garden in the Occultum was going to come into play - but have we heard word one about any of that? Nope.

We weren't told if everyone who went poof - Eileen, Donna, the AU crowd, etc., etc. - were returned. Sam didn't seem especially concerned if they did. Maybe we'll know next week, because it makes zero sense that they were among the "everyone we lost" montage. It can't just be the people in Hastings that Gack bothered to return and no one else.

Edited November 17, 2020 by PAForrest

[Castiels Cat]

6 hours ago, Smad said:

He should definitely have been sapping their souls. But shh, you are not supposed to apply logic.

I know... I mean that good doggie was a goner regardless of Chuck. This occurred to me too.

[Terese]

12 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Isn't that the same "active role" he had in Swan Song, actively letting Sam/Lucifer beat him up?

I thought Dean's contribution in Swan Song was not only perfect for his character, but absolutely essential to the resolution of defeating Lucifer. 

[Binns]

4 hours ago, PAForrest said:

 

Then there's the announcement early in the season by the 6 angels who were left that Heaven was dying because there weren't enough angels to keep it running, and when there were no more, Heaven is no more - and thus all the souls go nowhere.

Someone/thing is making more angels because Amara brought Chuck to heaven to meet his fans and there were a bunch of random angels. I’m guessing the writers forgot that little plot point. 

[Terese]

4 hours ago, PAForrest said:

Oh, there are other holes. Like when Ruby informed Cas that the Empty was actually mental torture porn - not a nothing sleep at all. So if Drabb's little pissant insert Gack can't be bothered to at least save Cas, the guy who spent the last four years caring almost solely about Gack - and at this point there's no reason to believe Gack cares, because he made it clear he didn't care to be involved - then what a truly crappy ending for one fan favorite.

Then there's the announcement early in the season by the 6 angels who were left that Heaven was dying because there weren't enough angels to keep it running, and when there were no more, Heaven is no more - and thus all the souls go nowhere. Again, another horrible ending for one or both of the Winchesters if there isn't even a reward of peace in Heaven. And Heaven itself needs to be restructured from the locked door memorex cages. This is where I thought the Garden in the Occultum was going to come into play - but have we heard word one about any of that? Nope.

We weren't told if everyone who went poof - Eileen, Donna, the AU crowd, etc., etc. - were returned. Sam didn't seem especially concerned if they did. Maybe we'll know next week, because it makes zero sense that they were among the "everyone we lost" montage. It can't just be the people in Hastings that Gack bothered to return and no one else.

This is because there was one and only one point to this entire arc. End Chuck and replace him with Jack. They couldn't even give Jack a greater purpose. Until retconned Chuck was hands off and didn't answer prayers.  What happens in the Empty or Heaven doesn't matter and never mattered. They wrote the ending and took a straight, contrived, irreverent and boringly idiotc route to it. "The cat sat on the  mat. THE END."

[Aeryn13]

45 minutes ago, Terese said:

I thought Dean's contribution in Swan Song was not only perfect for his character, but absolutely essential to the resolution of defeating Lucifer. 

While I never thought he mattered in the slightest and I loathed what he was reduced to in that episode, even I can see more of an argument for mattering than I do the brothers in this last episode. The only reason I like it better than the Seadon 5 Finale in that regard is because at least it was equal non-importance this time.

[Terese]

2 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

While I never thought he mattered in the slightest and I loathed what he was reduced to in that episode, even I can see more of an argument for mattering than I do the brothers in this last episode. The only reason I like it better than the Seadon 5 Finale in that regard is because at least it was equal non-importance this time.

I suppose it all comes down to perspective. Which is so unique and personal. 

Sam and Dean have been so diminished. Any attention at all is lip service. I wish they had ended long before. I can't feel them anymore. They're are like badly written clones. Even when they DO something, it feels staged, inserted. 

I was watching the end of season 2 the other night. The guys, Ellen and Bobby were studying the map Ellen saved and all figuring out what it meant and how to approach it. I love that scene. So involved, engaging. When was the last time we saw Sam and Dean do something like that?

[Aeryn13]

7 minutes ago, Terese said:

I suppose it all comes down to perspective. Which is so unique and personal. 

Sam and Dean have been so diminished. Any attention at all is lip service. I wish they had ended long before. I can't feel them anymore. They're are like badly written clones. Even when they DO something, it feels staged, inserted. 

I was watching the end of season 2 the other night. The guys, Ellen and Bobby were studying the map Ellen saved and all figuring out what it meant and how to approach it. I love that scene. So involved, engaging. When was the last time we saw Sam and Dean do something like that?

Hot take: Ellen and Jo had the best exit of any character on this entire show.

[Terese]

30 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Hot take: Ellen and Jo had the best exit of any character on this entire show.

Totally heartbreaking. Their bravery and how anguished Ellen was at losing her daughter, while refusing to leave her. That was crushing. I still cry over that one. Makes me wish they never resunk the Titanic. 

[PAForrest]

6 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Hot take: Ellen and Jo had the best exit of any character on this entire show.

No question whatsoever that was the saddest strongest written character death in the history of this show. I would say Dean being torn apart by Hell Hounds and dragged to Hell - you know, back when it was legit a terrifying fate - stands up as the second most gut-wrenching death of the series. But yeah, I actually cried when Ellen and Jo died.

The again, these deaths happened in excellent scripts written by really good strong writers. Something we were simply not fortunate enough to enjoy the last few years, and especially in this last season.

Castiel's death was beautiful and sad in the moment. But what is sadder is how after the last four years it was mostly unearned and out of nowhere, with no build up to his confession of love. Certainly it's the best thing Berens has written in his entire tenure under Drabb, but those 10 minutes are too little too late, much as I may have loved the scene in and of itself.

It will never not be painfully sad that the show is limping out this way, with the real heroes of the show reduced to useless as tits on a bull side characters, forced to try and sell an unearned guest star's tale of raging narcissism instead.

Edited November 17, 2020 by PAForrest

[Castiels Cat]

9 hours ago, Terese said:

I suppose it all comes down to perspective. Which is so unique and personal. 

Sam and Dean have been so diminished. Any attention at all is lip service. I wish they had ended long before. I can't feel them anymore. They're are like badly written clones. Even when they DO something, it feels staged, inserted. 

I was watching the end of season 2 the other night. The guys, Ellen and Bobby were studying the map Ellen saved and all figuring out what it meant and how to approach it. I love that scene. So involved, engaging. When was the last time we saw Sam and Dean do something like that?

Well we have seen Sam do it a lot. It is almost as if Dean never hunted by himself.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Castiels Cat

[Castiels Cat]

10 hours ago, Terese said:

I thought Dean's contribution in Swan Song was not only perfect for his character, but absolutely essential to the resolution of defeating Lucifer. 

Chuck even says that DEAN goes off script meaning that Dean was not written to be a Stull. Dean going there is the pivotal act that changes everything. Now one can be jaded and say a little green army man saves the day but that is a symbol of their love. Dean's love for Sam meant that he never gave up on him.

 

[Castiels Cat]

On 11/16/2020 at 11:42 AM, gonzosgirrl said:

If I were a Jack fan, I might be this magnanimous too, since my pet character ascended to God-hood and stole the heroics away from the actual leads of the show. But I'm not. So I won't.

That's called being a sacrificial lamb, not an active role at all.

I mean he literally stole the hero's storyline when he was unconscious in Ouroboros. Ouroboros is a snake that eats it's own tail. Jack is the snake that ate this tale.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Castiels Cat

[Gbb]

19 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I actually googled it and Hastings Minnesota is 9 hours from the bunker. Right they didn't speak during nine hours. Didn't tell them Cas was gone. Just so lazy. The writers backed themselves in a corner and basically sucked. 

 

My understanding is the final episode will really have nothing to do with what we just saw. Which leaves a lot left unsaid. If they don't talk about why Cas wasn't brought back it will be the biggest hole ever.

Maybe we'll get 5 more minutes of exposition to tie things up (in lieu of actually showing us anything).

[Terese]

6 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

Chuck even says that DEAN goes off script meaning that Dean was not written to be a Stull. Dean going there is the pivotal act that changes everything. Now one can be jaded and say a little green army man saves the day but that is a symbol of their love. Dean's love for Sam meant that he never gave up on him.

 

Chuck as a prophet told Dean about Stull Cemetary.

[Terese]

6 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

Well we have seen Sam do it a lot. It is almost as if Dean never hunted by himself.

Does what? Sitting at a table looking at a book? That's not what I am referring to. I'm talking about working the problem, making plans, acting on those plans.

[Castiels Cat]

1 hour ago, Terese said:

Does what? Sitting at a table looking at a book? That's not what I am referring to. I'm talking about working the problem, making plans, acting on those plans.

Yes. And Dean must be able to do those things... in fact we know that he can do those things... It's how he killed Eve for instance, caught Crowley or incapacitated Abaddon with grandad and numerous other times that Dabb wasn't the showrunner. Now he is the brawn whilst Sam does the research.

Hell even the Larp epi6showed that Dean is a master tactician.

The tricking of Chuck felt like a classic Dean plan... but the planning part was not important because it didn't include Jack.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Castiels Cat

[Terese]

51 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

Yes. And Dean must be able to do those things... in fact we know that he can do those things... It's how he killed Eve for instance, caught Crowley or incapacitated Abaddon with grandad and numerous other times that Dabb wasn't the showrunner. Now he is the brawn whilst Sam does the research.

Hell even the Larp epi6showed that Dean is a master tactician.

The tricking of Chuck felt like a classic Dean plan... but the planning part was not important because it didn't include Jack.

I've sort of lost track of what we are talking about. I don't make those kinds of distinctions or comparisons with the brothers. 

My point is simply that they used to actively engaged in troubleshooting the problem. We would see it and experience it right along with them. We haven't seen that component for quite a long time and certainly not at all this season. I always found those developments unfolding to be one of the more compelling aspects of both story and character. 

And yes, it is all about Jack. Who at the end of the day is no different than Chuck, before he was retconned into an evil 2 year old. He doesn't fix Heaven, prevent evil, interfere or answer prayers. Pointless. The stupidest storyline ever, while managing to completely degrade Sam and Dean in the process. It's all about Jack.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Castiels Cat said:

The tricking of Chuck felt like a classic Dean plan... but the planning part was not important because it didn't include Jack.

This is the heart of what I hated about the episode, and the season in general. Dean and Sam's part in taking out Chuck is what we should have seen play out on screen, not in a talky info dump after the fact.

[S Cook Productions]

3 hours ago, Terese said:

I've sort of lost track of what we are talking about. I don't make those kinds of distinctions or comparisons with the brothers. 

My point is simply that they used to actively engaged in troubleshooting the problem. We would see it and experience it right along with them. We haven't seen that component for quite a long time and certainly not at all this season. I always found those developments unfolding to be one of the more compelling aspects of both story and character. 

And yes, it is all about Jack. Who at the end of the day is no different than Chuck, before he was retconned into an evil 2 year old. He doesn't fix Heaven, prevent evil, interfere or answer prayers. Pointless. The stupidest storyline ever, while managing to completely degrade Sam and Dean in the process. It's all about Jack.

My hubby who is a very casual GA viewer (and by no means a mega fan like me- he didn't even remember that AU!Bobby was in this world lol and was surprised to see him in 18) said this exact same thing today when he watched this ep. He said, "this is pretty stupid." LOL.

[Pondlass1]

3 hours ago, Terese said:

My point is simply that they used to actively engaged in troubleshooting the problem. We would see it and experience it right along with them. We haven't seen that component for quite a long time and certainly not at all this season. 

Yeah ... remember when they figured it out with all nighters, books and beer, when they were clever and savvy. I loved those days.

Remember when they had spidey senses? 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Pondlass1

[Terese]

17 minutes ago, S Cook Productions said:

My hubby who is a very casual GA viewer (and by no means a mega fan like me- he didn't even remember that AU!Bobby was in this world lol and was surprised to see him in 18) said this exact same thing today when he watched this ep. He said, "this is pretty stupid." LOL.

🙂 imagine being the one who took a good show and made it stupid. Are they even aware?  

[tessathereaper]

55 minutes ago, Terese said:

🙂 imagine being the one who took a good show and made it stupid. Are they even aware?  

Probably not, they wrote it down to their own level and probably don't realize how stupid it is.

[Terese]

12 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

Probably not, they wrote it down to their own level and probably don't realize how stupid it is.

Yeah, that 30% that they have geared this season toward are thrilled. I think largely comprised of binge watching immature adolescents.

[Castiels Cat]

16 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

This is the heart of what I hated about the episode, and the season in general. Dean and Sam's part in taking out Chuck is what we should have seen play out on screen, not in a talky info dump after the fact.

Exactly.

And we never see those strategy sessions anymore because they do not fit their misinformed Cliff note yellow sticky pad bullets of Dean.

To give them credit this may have in part fallen victim to J2 requesting more me time. Good writers could have made this work without dumbing down the main characters, destroying canon and sucking in General.

[gonzosgirrl]

50 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

To give them credit this may have in part fallen victim to J2 requesting more me time. Good writers could have made this work without dumbing down the main characters, destroying canon and sucking in General.

Yes. I don't doubt that there was more time off negotiated in their contracts over the last however many seasons. But skilled writers who cared about the lead characters could have handled it 1000% better. It's not like they asked for 3 day weeks or extra weeks off. Reducing the episode number alone should have given the writers ample room to work with.