Flesh And Blood - General Discussion

[Spunkygal]

20 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

I want to like Mary because she seems like a devoted friend, but the fact that she sneaks into Vivian's house and goes through her things makes me dislike her immensely.  She's downright creepy. 

Oh I so agree! I love her because of the fascinating element she adds to the story. Where is this all going? I can’t believe they are wrapping this up in an hour next week. And I want to rent Vivian’s house (if Mary isn’t next door)! 

[dubbel zout]

14 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

Since the youngest sister told the older sister that she always had a crush on the husband, I wonder if that will go anywhere.

She made sure to say it wasn’t a romantic crush—it was George’s competence and his love (at the time) for his wife she liked.

[sugarbaker design]

16 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

Since the youngest sister told the older sister that she always had a crush on the husband, I wonder if that will go anywhere.

For the husband's sake I hope not, he should pack up and leave that awful family.

[leighdear]

When Mary mentioned to Mark that she could still get in the front, the wimp needed to smack her down & say "You need to CALL US before you come over in the future.  WE'D prefer you not just walk into OUR house" .

Lawyer bed buddy of the son needs to be disbarred for breaching client confidentiality and telling him about mom's arrangements.  He can't be THAT good in the sack.  Or she's playing at something, which I hope. 

All 3 kids are selfish, grubbing and despicable.  I hope Mark IS a crook and eventually takes every cent away from them.  Although I don't want Vivien dead!  *LOL*

[Rickster]

 

3 hours ago, leighdear said:

Lawyer bed buddy of the son needs to be disbarred for breaching client confidentiality and telling him about mom's arrangements.  He can't be THAT good in the sack.  Or she's playing at something, which I hope. 

Did she tell him about arrangements? I might have dozed off a bit, but I thought she told him that his mother and Mark came in for a consultation, but refused to tell him anything else because she could be disbarred.

[leighdear]

3 hours ago, Rickster said:

Did she tell him about arrangements? I might have dozed off a bit, but I thought she told him that his mother and Mark came in for a consultation, but refused to tell him anything else because she could be disbarred.

You're absolutely right, she didn't really breach.. She did tell him they brought their papers in & the death certificate on his wife listed self-administered overdose as the cause.  Then she makes him swear the info didn't come from her. 

I don't know if folks in the UK can just request death certificates for anybody they want, so I don't know if that info would be privileged. 

[Crashcourse]

If she didn't breach, then why would she make him swear that the information about the death certificate didn't come from her?

[leighdear]

11 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

If she didn't breach, then why would she make him swear that the information about the death certificate didn't come from her?

It would make her look untrustworthy to her clients & co-workers, maybe?   Like the difference between illegal and just immoral?  

As I said, I have no idea what kind of documents we can access here in the US that maybe they can't access in the UK, and vice versa. 

[sheetmoss]

On 10/19/2020 at 12:16 PM, dubbel zout said:

The younger daughter was never pregnant—she lied to her boyfriend to get him to leave his wife and be with her. When she saw them together at the beach, she finally realized he'd never give up his current family. So after five frickin' years, she finally broke it off with him. I'm glad they gave that to her instead of having the boyfriend get all self-righteous about being lied to about a baby that wasn't. 

If we saw a pregnancy test, I don't think we saw any results.

The boyfriend's wife looked pregnant to me  in that scene

[tennisgurl]

What is going on with Mary? What is her deal? Is she upset that the family might be leaving and is scheming to keep Vivien around? Is she a stalker? Its hard to really root for either Mark or the kids/Mary, as they seem to be mostly trying to keep Mark and Vivien apart for selfish reasons (until they find out that he might have killed his first wife and then they got actually freaked) but they arent wrong to suspect that something is up with him. If anything, I would think that Vivien would be more confused by the fact that she has never seen even a picture of Marks daughter or spoken to her, even after they got married. No pictures even online? Its super sketchy. 

Speaking of stalking, I am glad that the younger daughter is apparently giving up her married boyfriend. Not only is it a crappy thing to do, but he is clearly never going to leave his wife, and she is so desperate she does stuff like stalking him and his family and faking a pregnancy, that its just desperate and sad. 

I cant at all blame George for being halfway out the door, he should head for the hills to get away from Helen. She didn't even bother apologizing for accusing him of adulty based on a picture of him standing in a pub and the word of a random person on Instagram, even throwing the accusation at him in front of their marriage counselor to add to the drama, and she still acts like he is just another point on her to do list. I do wonder if her sister saying that she was always jealous of Helen for marrying him will come into play.

Edited October 21, 2020 by tennisgurl

[12catcrazy]

I'm suspicious of Mark for not at least letting Vivien meet his daughter at the hospital where she supposedly works.   As far as anything on-line, my SO is 73, and has absolutely no on-line stuff at all (unless it's photos which I've posted on my FB page).  He still uses a cheapo flip phone, has no photos on it of anybody or anything.  If you do a search of his name (which is very common) and narrow it to an area, you'll get one of those "White Pages" listings and some "related to" names that come up, but that's it.  

Mark is supposed to be a surgeon, so you'd  THINK he'd have an on-line presence, but if he's of a certain age, maybe not.   I still wonder if Mark is really who he claims to be.   When "the kids" looked him up, I wonder if there were any photos of him.  

[cinsays]

Just now, 12catcrazy said:

I'm suspicious of Mark for not at least letting Vivien meet his daughter at the hospital where she supposedly works.   As far as anything on-line, my SO is 73, and has absolutely no on-line stuff at all (unless it's photos which I've posted on my FB page).  He still uses a cheapo flip phone, has no photos on it of anybody or anything.  If you do a search of his name (which is very common) and narrow it to an area, you'll get one of those "White Pages" listings and some "related to" names that come up, but that's it.  

Mark is supposed to be a surgeon, so you'd  THINK he'd have an on-line presence, but if he's of a certain age, maybe not.   I still wonder if Mark is really who he claims to be.   When "the kids" looked him up, I wonder if there were any photos of him.  

I don't think anything he has claimed about himself is true.  I don't think there is a daughter.  He's just kind of creepy.

[anniebird]

On 10/13/2020 at 1:02 PM, sugarbaker design said:

Seriously, they could be poster children for contraception.  That poor woman dedicated her life to raising these three, and what does she get?  Three whiny narcissistic arseholes!

She didn't just "get" them - she raised them to be whiny narcissistic arseholes.

[sugarbaker design]

44 minutes ago, anniebird said:

She didn't just "get" them - she raised them to be whiny narcissistic arseholes.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, I don't blame parents for their adult childrens' character defects.  I've known people who were essentially raised by wolves who've turned out to be amazing people, and conversely, I've known people who were raised by saints who've turned to be the biggest dipshits alive.

I can't picture Vivian telling her son to prostitute himself for free rent, tell her younger daughter to bang her married boss, or tell her elder daughter to be a total bitch to her husband.

Edited October 22, 2020 by sugarbaker design

[anniebird]

3 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, I don't blame parents for their adult childrens' character defects.  I've known people who were essentially raised by wolves who've turned out to be amazing people, and conversely, I've known people who were raised by saints who've turned to be the biggest dipshits alive.

I can't picture Vivian telling her son to prostitute himself for free rent, tell her younger daughter to bang her married boss, or tell her elder daughter to be a total bitch to her husband.

That's not how parenting works - you don't tell them to do those things - you just raise them to think those things are ok. If she had only one rotten apple, I'd agree it's bad luck, but all three? 

[Crashcourse]

What I find interesting is how clueless Vivian seems to be when it comes to Mary entering her house and going through her things.  One would think that Vivien would sense something was "off" as soon as she entered her house.  I mean, doesn't she notice misplaced items?  I do understand her useless children worrying about her because perhaps she's been kind of clueless all her life.

[sugarbaker design]

5 hours ago, anniebird said:

That's not how parenting works - you don't tell them to do those things - you just raise them to think those things are ok. If she had only one rotten apple, I'd agree it's bad luck, but all three? 

Thanks for the parenting tip!  Alas, we still disagree, there's no way I'm going to blame the actions of thirtysomethings on a seventy year old.

[anniebird]

13 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

Thanks for the parenting tip!  Alas, we still disagree, there's no way I'm going to blame the actions of thirtysomethings on a seventy year old.

I have adult children and if they were this awful I'd think I did a really lousy job of parenting.

[tennisgurl]

I am getting a lot of dark laughs out of everyone unknowingly guilt tripping the youngest daughter about her affair. For some reason she is just constantly surrounded by people complaining about affairs, and she always gets the most hilariously awkward expressions on her face while also trying to make half assed justifications as her mom or sister complain about affairs and the people that have them and how much they suck.

"...What about the other women?" 

"I couldn't possibly care." 

"What kind of bitch does that to another woman?" 

"I mean...maybe its complicated..." 

Edited October 23, 2020 by tennisgurl

[cardigirl]

On 10/23/2020 at 3:50 PM, tennisgurl said:

I am getting a lot of dark laughs out of everyone unknowingly guilt tripping the youngest daughter about her affair. For some reason she is just constantly surrounded by people complaining about affairs, and she always gets the most hilariously awkward expressions on her face while also trying to make half assed justifications as her mom or sister complain about affairs and the people that have them and how much they suck.

"...What about the other women?" 

"I couldn't possibly care." 

"What kind of bitch does that to another woman?" 

"I mean...maybe its complicated..." 

I always love it too, that immediately, the blame goes to the other woman, for not controlling herself. How dare she force the husband into an affair! 🤣

Edited October 27, 2020 by cardigirl

[leighdear]

Good ending.  If Mary had just pinched his nose closed a little longer til the ambulance actually got there.....  What a psycho. 

Very glad the asshat Jake got caught with Stella.  He deserved that.  

Fun that stick-up-her-ass Helen got paraded on social media, vomiting up her own sanctimonious crap.  How mature!

And "Nats" (stupid nickname) is possibly, actually knocked up, and heads straight for the booze?  Idiot. 

Yeah, even if Mark recovers and his (for real) daughter pushes for justice, I wouldn't watch any of these people again.  

Edited October 26, 2020 by leighdear

[Driad]

I'm disappointed.  After putting up with so many unlikeable people for four hours, I hoped for a clever twist ending.

[cardigirl]

Deleted duplicate post.

Edited October 26, 2020 by cardigirl
Duplicate

[anniebird]

This was my least favorite Masterpiece in a long time - it had the stars but the writing was overwrought and there wasn't much of a surprise to the ending.

[freddi]

I kept waiting for someone to point out that the daughter Sophie was mentioned in the first wife's inquest coverage.  And if Viv and Mark had discussed the first wife and inquest in such detail, it seems very odd that Viv still seems to know nothing about the daughter.  

I totally called Mark opening his eyes again -- but I thought it would happen right before the ambulance arrived, and that Mary hit him on the head with a rock -- the head injuries in the hospital seemed more serious than what we saw on the beach.  

I found that final lunch on the deck oddly festive, given all that had happened -- it still seemed to be only a day or two later, given that the daughter was just arriving.  Mary is just one of the creepiest characters I have seen in a long time.  Is it wrong that I want her to deliver a basket of scones and jam, or of canapes?  

And just what were the arrangements that Viv and Mark made at the solicitor's office?  Perhaps Viv now is in a position to inherit.  Many doors are left open for a sequel, which I would watch just for Imelda and Francesca, who were wonderful.

And who set the MG on fire?   Minor point -- how did Jake's wife get a key to his flat?  They had only just reconciled, and he certainly was aware that the flat was used for all sorts of extracurricular activity.  No way would he tell his wife "here's a key, stop by anytime."  

Edited October 26, 2020 by freddi

[magdalene]

Are they doing a second season of this?  I am not sure I would watch more.  My problem all along was that I don't like any of these people.  The children are all obnoxious and unlikable.  I thought Viv was pathetic for being with this creeper who set off so many warning signs. Mark made my skin crawl.

But my biggest problem with this show was that I had previously watched Gold Digger on Acorn, which was different but did cover some of the same territory.  I found that show so much more compelling - for one thing I could understand why a woman - of any age - would fall for and be with the suspicious new husband the adult children hate.

Edited October 26, 2020 by magdalene

[Kemper]

I have to wonder if I would have enjoyed the show more if there had been a different actor as Mark in the lead.  Someone like Hugh Grant or Hugh Laurie; someone who could turn on the charm.  I guess Stephen Rea is considered more of a "Masterpiece Serious" type of actor.  He was the biggest stumbling block for me.  That, and the ears on Jake.  I have seen him in other movies on PBS, Acorn and Brit Box; he is a good actor.  But again, maybe miscast as a pay-for-sex person.

 

[12catcrazy]

I had to say "That was the payoff we watched this for?"  And freddi - great minds think alike; I thought that Mary hit Mark on the head with a brick or something as well, as his head didn't look injured when he was still on the ground.    

Looks like the meddling kids all got their lives torn apart, but at least with the two sisters it could go either way.  If the younger one IS preggers, and wants to keep the baby, she can always get a lawyer to talk to baby daddie's lawyer and get some bucks for child support.  I wonder how his WIFE would take that - LOL.   And from the looks of it, the son burnt his bridge with his wife.  Dumbass.  

I guess that they could have Part II of this show, but I think the hook was the "mystery" of who was the victim and who dunnit.  Write your own endings for the rest.  

[cinsays]

2 hours ago, Kemper said:

I have to wonder if I would have enjoyed the show more if there had been a different actor as Mark in the lead.  Someone like Hugh Grant or Hugh Laurie; someone who could turn on the charm.  I guess Stephen Rea is considered more of a "Masterpiece Serious" type of actor.  He was the biggest stumbling block for me.  That, and the ears on Jake.  I have seen him in other movies on PBS, Acorn and Brit Box; he is a good actor.  But again, maybe miscast as a pay-for-sex person.

 

Yeah, i don't know if they purposely had him looking grungy and unkempt and unattractive, but he just did not seem to have anything to admire or think Viv would go for. 

And, Jake, bawling on the floor after his wife walked in on him and the sex-buyer.  If you didn't want to lose your wife, you wouldn't have been cheating on her nonstop. 

And the family and Mary are all content to keep the lie that Mark just fell over the balcony without any help. 

None of these people were at all interesting or nice enough for me to care what happened to them. Will there be another season? Probably, but won't be on my must watch list.

 

[Spunkygal]

That was one of the most unsatisfying conclusions to a show that I’ve ever seen. Such talented actors and a totally convoluted storyline with many loose ends. Maybe there will be a second season but my review of this was boo hiss. Who set fire to the car? What was the cause of Viv’s spells? Had Mark been drugging her? Was Viv lying to the kids when she said that Mark had told her all about his first wife’s death or was she just saying that to shut them up? I still can’t believe that Sophie couldn’t tear herself away from her hospital for 5 minutes to meet Viv when they went to visit.  Why was Viv so trusting of Mark and eager for a relationship when all we heard was how her husband had screwed around on her? And yes to whoever previously mentioned how strangely light-hearted the ending luncheon was. I kept thinking “this is it?” Another yes to the comment that Stephen Rea would not have been my first (or hundredth) choice for the role of Mark. So disappointed. It almost seemed like the producer ran out of money and had to hurry and wrap it up.

[Crashcourse]

This "cliffhanger" was a disappointment.  If there is a next season the only reason I might watch is to see if creepy Mary is imprisoned for attempted murder, and those useless kids are imprisoned for lying about how Mark fell.  

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Crashcourse

[dubbel zout]

On 10/20/2020 at 9:02 PM, leighdear said:

On 10/20/2020 at 8:49 PM, Crashcourse said:

If she didn't breach, then why would she make him swear that the information about the death certificate didn't come from her?

It would make her look untrustworthy to her clients & co-workers, maybe?   Like the difference between illegal and just immoral?  

She broke the spirit of client confidentiality, if nothing else.

15 hours ago, leighdear said:

And "Nats" (stupid nickname) is possibly, actually knocked up, and heads straight for the booze?  Idiot. 

I got the impression she wasn't sure if she wanted to keep the baby. Besides, at that early in the pregnancy, a few glasses of wine probably wouldn't do much damage to the fetus.

4 hours ago, magdalene said:

I thought Viv was pathetic for being with this creeper who set off so many warning signs.

I wish they had made her stronger—she tells her kids to knock it off about Mark or else she dumps Mark. Instead she let everyone walk all over her. Yeah, she halfheartedly told the kids to stop, but she needed to give them an ultimatum.

Does it matter who set fire to the car? It was either Mary or one of the kids, IMO, and that doesn't change things for me. They all hate Mark, they're all terrible people, and I'm glad this show is over. Super disappointing—even the "twist" at the end of Mark opening his eyes wasn't as shocking as we were supposed to think.

[Driad]

Mary -- if someone has no pulse, he needs CPR. My CPR class said we could do just the chest compressions and skip mouth-to-mouth, especially if an ambulance has been called. (Mary apparently did not really want to save Mark, but she could have made her efforts more realistic.)

Natalie -- if a man will cheat on his wife with you, he will cheat on you with someone else. (Of course Natalie hadn't figured this out in five years.)

[Crashcourse]

While Mark wasn't Hugh Grant levels of attractiveness, perhaps Vivien was attracted to him because he was the exact opposite of her cheating husband.  She thought he was kind (maybe he is, we still don't know for sure) and would be a faithful husband.   Maybe the husband was attractive and charming and a cheater, just like Natalie's boss. 

The thing I didn't understand was why the woman so enamored of the meathead son and was paying him for sex.   There seemed to be nothing going on between those two big ears.  

[cinsays]

5 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

While Mark wasn't Hugh Grant levels of attractiveness, perhaps Vivien was attracted to him because he was the exact opposite of her cheating husband.  She thought he was kind (maybe he is, we still don't know for sure) and would be a faithful husband.   Maybe the husband was attractive and charming and a cheater, just like Natalie's boss. 

The thing I didn't understand was why the woman so enamored of the meathead son and was paying him for sex.   There seemed to be nothing going on between those two big ears.  

I think he hid his true personality to snare her. His smoking apparently was disturbing to Viv, as was his drinking to the point he was slurry and verbal with the son.

Totally agree on the big eared sex toy, guess he must be good at something.

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, Driad said:

Mary -- if someone has no pulse, he needs CPR.

She did say her "first aid" was from a long time ago, hee.

3 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

The thing I didn't understand was why the woman so enamored of the meathead son and was paying him for sex.   There seemed to be nothing going on between those two big ears. 

To quote the great Julie Brown, "I like 'em big and stupid. I like them really, really dumb!"

[Melina22]

7 hours ago, Kemper said:

I have to wonder if I would have enjoyed the show more if there had been a different actor as Mark in the lead. 

I really enjoyed the show and would watch a second season, but I totally agree about Mark. He just doesn't seem charming or attractive enough to have swept Vivien off her feet. 

Then again, I just watched Love Fraud, and the guy who had multiple women on the hook for years was even less appealing than Mark. And he wasn't even fictional! 

I think half of what I loved about this show was the spectacular setting. My dream home, except maybe in winter. 

[dubbel zout]

I think Mark being kind of a sad sack was intentional. If he'd telegraphed "I'm EVUL!!11!" too much, it would make Vivian's acceptance of him even more inexplicable. For me the writing failed the actors, not the other way around. The story was overwritten in some places and underwritten in others.

Mary was the most terrifying character, IMO.

Edited October 26, 2020 by dubbel zout
spelling

[Crashcourse]

Mary was, indeed, the most terrifying character.  The look on her face as she was sitting at the head of the table had me thinking she actually wanted to be the head of the family.  Vivian and her children were clueless idiots for not sensing that.  Mark did though.

[dubbel zout]

I think Mark would have resented Mary regardless. He didn't want anyone interfering with the relationship. He gave up trying to be civil to the kids.

[Rickster]

8 hours ago, Driad said:

Mary -- if someone has no pulse, he needs CPR. My CPR class said we could do just the chest compressions and skip mouth-to-mouth, especially if an ambulance has been called. (Mary apparently did not really want to save Mark, but she could have made her efforts more realistic.)

We thought Mary was trying to cut off his air supply, not save him.

Agree the ending was disappointing, although with Mark opening his eyes it seemed a setup for season two, which might explain the blah conclusion. If they had a second season, it might also explain why the show spent so much time getting into subsidiary plots with the children, rather than having a more focused script. I would watch a second season.

[Driad]

33 minutes ago, Rickster said:

We thought Mary was trying to cut off his air supply, not save him.

I think so too, but presumably she wanted it to look as if she was trying to help him, in case anyone was watching.  The "first aid class long ago" excuse may have covered whatever she did.

Mary was an interesting villain.  Too bad I wouldn't want to watch the other characters again.

[tinderbox]

I’d definitely watch a second season.  I liked the show and I do want to see what happens next.  That said, I agree with those of you who think a different actor portraying Mark could have been a better choice, in general.  (No disrespect to the actor who played him.)

Edited October 27, 2020 by tinderbox

[sugarbaker design]

9 hours ago, Driad said:

Mary was an interesting villain.  Too bad I wouldn't want to watch the other characters again.

I'd watch to see their comeuppance.  I'd love to see the alcoholic, the hooker and the other woman get their due.  Oh, and Mary too.

 

9 hours ago, tinderbox said:

That said, I agree with those of you who think a different actor portraying Mark could have been a better choice, in general.

I have a soft spot for Stephen Rea after watching The Crying Game and reading Say Nothing:  A True Story of Murder and Memory in Northern Ireland.

In season 2 (or series 2) I'd love to see Mark's daughter lead an investigation into what really happened that night.

[dubbel zout]

58 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

the hooker

Who do you consider the hooker?

58 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

I have a soft spot for Stephen Rea after watching The Crying Game and reading Say Nothing:  A True Story of Murder and Memory in Northern Ireland.

He's had an interesting life, no doubt about it. That book is heartbreaking and so, so good.

[sugarbaker design]

2 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Who do you consider the hooker?

Didn't the son trade sex for rent?  Wouldn't that make him a rent boy?  😉

3 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

That book is heartbreaking and so, so good.

So good.

[dubbel zout]

32 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

36 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Who do you consider the hooker?

Didn't the son trade sex for rent?  Wouldn't that make him a rent boy?  😉

He was also her trainer. It wasn't just about sex.

[Driad]

1 hour ago, sugarbaker design said:

11 hours ago, Driad said:

Mary was an interesting villain.  Too bad I wouldn't want to watch the other characters again.

I'd watch to see their comeuppance.

If we here could write it, fine.  But I don't trust whoever wrote this to supply a satisfying ending.  Maybe they were being  modern or creative, but I didn't like it.

[sugarbaker design]

32 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

He was also her trainer. It wasn't just about sex.

I apologize, I forgot he was a multi-service provider!   A hooker is still a hooker.

Edited October 27, 2020 by sugarbaker design

[tennisgurl]

That was a pretty anticlimactic ending, I was really expecting a lot more. Mary really is something else though, a really interesting and creepy villain, and if there is another season, I would mainly watch to see what happens with her. Its clear at the end that she wants to be the head of the family, the person that everyone else will rely on, and Mark being around and getting Viviane to move away would have changed all that, so he had to go. The only real surprise was that Mary didn't smash him over the head or poison him or something. 

The other real surprise was that Marks daughter in Spain does apparently exist. Mark still seems sketchy to me, there are a lot of red flags with him, so much that even Vivian seemed to be having doubts. It is pretty messed up that they were having their jaunty family lunch so soon after their mothers husband just fell over the edge of the balcony and is in a coma. The balcony still has the new wood from where he fell off, that seems rather morbid. 

I also thought the kids toasts about how great a childhood their mom gave them and how it was the best start they could get was a bit funny and also rather sad. They had all of these advantages and this great start, and yet their lives are still a complete mess as adults.