Van Der Valk - General Discussion

[dleighg]

11 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I'm still having trouble with the regional English accents for a series set in Amsterdam

Ha Ha. Yeah, I was trying to figure out if they just sounded English to my American ear but were actually Dutch actors, or whether they were actually English (and not "the Queen's English" at that). To confuse things even further, some of the minor actors (the actress who plays Lena, for example) actually are Dutch and have mostly appeared in Dutch programs.

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

They better justify this because as a personality quirk it's a fail.

In the first season we learned his wife died and he wasn't able to prevent it. So of course that means he can never have a long-lasting relationship ever again. And of course Piet is too stubborn to get therapy.

Forgot to mention earlier that Beatie Edney as the losing lawyer really brought a jolt of personality to the episode. She's always so good.

[janeta]

I like this show, but just can’t get around that all the cops are…British. Could they not even fake Dutch accents?

[dubbel zout]

This season has had interesting setups, but the conclusions tend to be clunkers, IMO. I wish the show would dig into the situations more. The diamond industry is fascinating, IMO, yet it's basically the MacGuffin for the murder. We're told an awful lot instead of being shown. I found it really hard to believe that Cornelis (the brother) kept his sexuality such a secret, especially in the Netherlands of 2022. And that his sisters were shocked to find out? Really not that believable to me.

I forget, do we know what Job's big sekrit is?

At least Brad wasn't such an oaf this episode. Given how critical Piet is of his team, I find it unrealistic that he'd keep someone like Brad around for purely entertainment purposes. And he's always eating and/or drinking. That's such a tired trope.

[milkyaqua]

1 hour ago, janeta said:

I like this show, but just can’t get around that all the cops are…British. Could they not even fake Dutch accents?

Eh, it's no more ridiculous than Wallander.

I did feel this second epi fell short ending-wise.  The first murder, okay fine.  But what was the point in the other deaths?  The only thing that made sense to me is that they were trying to take out people who were close to mommie dearest.  Still not smooth at all.

[chitowngirl]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

I forget, do we know what Job's big sekrit is?

Wasn’t it that he has been living at the gym?

[statsgirl]

Job said that he could be living in a real home but chooses not to so I think that there is still more to the secret and will be revealed in the next episode

The mystery on this one was meh. I figured out that the mother was still alive when Henrik announced the DNA on the fingernail. The first victim sleeping with all 3 siblings was eye-rolling. I don't understand why they needed to steal the heart diamond because why would anyone want to look at the DNA in it? (As I understand it, they could have found out the fingernail was mother's through looking at mitochondrial DNA which is inherited through the female line.)

The mother and therapist talking about true love being what sent van der Walk back to Lena was beyond cheesy.

57 minutes ago, milkyaqua said:

I did feel this second epi fell short ending-wise.  The first murder, okay fine.  But what was the point in the other deaths?  The only thing that made sense to me is that they were trying to take out people who were close to mommie dearest.  Still not smooth at all.

Taking out the diamond assessor and the doctor was unnecessary; they accepted that she was dead.

And what was the point in cutting the first guy up and sending him to all 3 siblings? It just made the murder more interesting and engaged the police more.

[12catcrazy]

Why is it that it seems every lead cop on these British PBS police show is "tortured"?  There always seems to be a tragic backstory of some kind.  I think that one of the things enjoyable about Midsommer Murders is that the top cops (the Barnebys) were happily married with no personal drama.   

Also must say, that the hair on the women cops in this show is absolutely terrible.  The blond woman has a hair style that I haven't seen on anybody since 1982 and the dark haired cop's hair just plain looks bad (and doesn't really suit her).  I'm thinking that both actresses are wearing wigs but this looks like another production that spends $200 an episode on wardrobe and hair (for the entire cast). 

[Llywela]

On 10/3/2022 at 3:56 PM, janeta said:

I like this show, but just can’t get around that all the cops are…British. Could they not even fake Dutch accents?

Plenty of other shows have employed similar conceits. It's one of those things we just have to accept and move on, if we want to enjoy the show. Suspension of disbelief is the price of entry.

On 10/3/2022 at 6:51 PM, statsgirl said:

And what was the point in cutting the first guy up and sending him to all 3 siblings? It just made the murder more interesting and engaged the police more.

It was designed to throw suspicion at the guy who had been sacked - and backfired big time. These were not exactly criminal masterminds!

47 minutes ago, 12catcrazy said:

Why is it that it seems every lead cop on these British PBS police show is "tortured"?  There always seems to be a tragic backstory of some kind.  I think that one of the things enjoyable about Midsommer Murders is that the top cops (the Barnebys) were happily married with no personal drama.   

Also must say, that the hair on the women cops in this show is absolutely terrible.  The blond woman has a hair style that I haven't seen on anybody since 1982 and the dark haired cop's hair just plain looks bad (and doesn't really suit her).  I'm thinking that both actresses are wearing wigs but this looks like another production that spends $200 an episode on wardrobe and hair (for the entire cast). 

Van der Valk is the most boring character in his own show, 100%, and it doesn't help that I'm not overly fond of Marc Warren. He's a good actor, no question, he's just never appealed to me. I'm in this for Maimie McCoy and Elliot Barnes-Worrall. But I guess I can live with dour Van der Valk as long as I remain interested in the more entertaining characters around him, although I'd rather he was more compelling in himself.

Lucienne's hair makes me want to cry. Maimie McCoy is such a gorgeous woman, but this show is determined not to let anyone see her at her best!

Edited October 4, 2022 by Llywela

[12catcrazy]

Yes, Mamie McCoy is beautiful; I had seen her being interviewed about her part on this show and she had her own hair and looked so much better.  The blond actress is very good-looking as well - even that ugly circa 1975 hairdo can't hide that.  

Ah British cop shows - where they take beautiful actresses and fugly them down, unlike US shows which glam up everybody to the nth degree. 

[Llywela]

For what it's worth, I've already seen the final episode of the season (aired back in August here) and I found Van der Valk (the man, not the show) marginally more enjoyable to watch in that last episode - he seems to be growing in personality, very slightly, as the show goes along. The team as a whole has grown on me a lot over the two seasons. I'll wait to comment on the plot of that last episode until you've all seen it too, although I will say that I saw one element of it coming a mile off because the show Y Gwyll/Hinterland already did much the same thing a few years ago!

To see Maimie McCoy at her most glamorous and seductive, you should watch The Musketeers (2014-16) where she was a fabulous Milady de Winter.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Llywela

[Irlandesa]

On 10/4/2022 at 2:23 PM, Llywela said:

For what it's worth, I've already seen the final episode of the season (aired back in August here)

I've seen it too.  I have PBS Passport.  I'll wait to give my thoughts but it was my least favorite of the three episodes. 

[Broderbits]

On 10/4/2022 at 3:23 PM, Llywela said:

To see Maimie McCoy at her most glamorous and seductive, you should watch The Musketeers (2014-16) where she was a fabulous Milady de Winter.

I'd never heard of this series so thanks for mentioning it! Marc Warren is in it too!

[janeta]

I know diddly about boats,  but could one person handle all those sails on Piet's boat?

Glad to see—spoiler alert—the bad guys get theirs.  Not surprised at all that… what's her name… killed the father. Not sad. 

[Llywela]

This series as a whole is very dour, I find. There's not a lot of humour. Which is why, I think, I appreciate the few lighter moments we do get so much. I'm not sure why the show is playing Job's backstory as such a mystery and dragging it out for so long, but I do enjoy how much it bugs Piet that he doesn't know (and how much he doesn't want to admit that it bugs him). The main cast are mostly ciphers - for all the air of mystery around Job, we actually know more about him at this point than just about anyone else - so Piet being bugged by Job is at least a personality quirk that helps to flesh Piet out as a person a bit better, beyond his 'brooding over a tragic past' routine, which is pretty stale, tbh. I like that we got to see a few more facets of his personality, in this last episode especially, because beyond that they really are giving us crumbs, for the most part.

I think this is one of those shows where the detectives and their stories are supposed to take second place to the cases they investigate, in which case the cases themselves really need to be a bit more dynamic and interesting. Or they should lean into the characters more and use them to drive viewer interest instead, because at the moment I don't think they are getting the balance quite right, which makes it hard to really feel invested, as a viewer.

The senior officer being part of the paedophile ring I saw coming a mile off, the moment he started taking such an interest in the case. Like I said, the show Y Gwyll/Hinterland (also quite a dour, bleak detective drama with a central hero brooding over a tragic past) did the exact same twist several years ago, except in that case the unveiling of the paedophile ring was the culmination of a series long arc that had been woven through other stories and cases, rather than a standalone episode.

11 hours ago, Broderbits said:

I'd never heard of this series so thanks for mentioning it! Marc Warren is in it too!

Definitely worth checking out The Musketeers, if you get a chance! Based on rather than adapted from the novel, they take a lot of liberties and have tremendous fun in the process. The cinematography is gorgeous, and the characters fantastically well drawn. (ETA - Marc Warren pops up in season two. Maimie McCoy is technically a regular throughout, but in practice she is missing from a chunk of season 3 because she was on maternity leave.)

Edited October 10, 2022 by Llywela

[dubbel zout]

Another disappointing episode for me. Brad really didn't know the word "cello"? COME ON. There's comic relief and there's utter stupidity. This was definitely the latter. Stuff like this makes me continue to wonder why he's on the team. He's pretty useless until the final 15 minutes of the show.

I thought it was cool they used a real cellist for the role of the murdered musician, but all the hoopla about it made me think she'd have more to do.

14 hours ago, Llywela said:

I do enjoy how much it bugs Piet that he doesn't know (and how much he doesn't want to admit that it bugs him).

I hated that he followed Job and then later tells him whatever's going on is private. Then stop digging!

I did not see Lena being engaged. That was a kick in the teeth to Piet. And it just reinforces his commitment issues. Ugh.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

I did not see Lena being engaged. That was a kick in the teeth to Piet. And it just reinforces his commitment issues. Ugh.

Me neither.  I didn't see why she came back after he pushed her away.  Then again, he did emphasize that which is why she probably felt he was a good bet for a fling--he wouldn't be the type to want more. 

[dleighg]

9 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I did not see Lena being engaged.

Maybe I'm just really old fashioned, but you're having a fling while you're engaged, and supposedly in the "glow" of love with the person you're marrying?

It kind of reminded me (though a different situation) of the flings in "Up in the Air" with George Clooney.

[LisaM]

I thought that the involvement of the Police Chief was telegraphed early on. 

Not sure why Piet is so interested in Job's history. 

I read that the show has been renewed for Season 3. 

[LennieBriscoe]

That was some "Bachelorette party!" Poor Piet! 

The aerial views of Amsterdam are my favorite parts, though I really like Piet. Goofy young dude always eating, not so much. Earnest rookie, decent. Lucienne, we get it---eye contact is the tell. 

Bring on Season 3!

[Llywela]

5 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Lucienne, we get it---eye contact is the tell.

Get what? The tell for what? (I don't know what episode you just watched - S2 was last year for me). Lucienne isn't the will-they-won't-they putative love interest for Piet. She's the gay best friend.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Llywela

[LennieBriscoe]

3 hours ago, Llywela said:

Get what? The tell for what? (I don't know what episode you just watched - S2 was last year for me). Lucienne isn't the will-they-won't-they putative love interest for Piet. She's the gay best friend.

She isn't any kind of "love interest for Piet" as you acknowledge in your last sentence! 

Sorry for no episode context, but I refer to Lucienne's meeting other gay women. Eye contact. (Isn't that true of any relationship?)

[Llywela]

10 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

She isn't any kind of "love interest for Piet" as you acknowledge in your last sentence! 

Sorry for no episode context, but I refer to Lucienne's meeting other gay women. Eye contact. (Isn't that true of any relationship?)

Ah, see, your original post, without any episode context, was very confusing! You seemed to be running through all the characters without naming them, and thus it came across as if you were reading Lucienne and Piet as a will-they-won't-they.

I suppose we should all bear in mind, especially when posting about shows that have already aired in other places, that a little contextualisation of our comments can be helpful for other readers to know what we are reacting to! We don't all watch the same shows at the same time.

[ceecee]

I see season three will be airing in Britain...any idea of when PBS will be getting it? I can't remember the lag time between. Thanks!

Edited June 16, 2023 by ceecee

[Llywela]

17 hours ago, ceecee said:

I see season three will be airing in Britain...any idea of when PBS will be getting it? I can't remember the lag time between. Thanks!

Yes, the new season begins on Sunday over here. I believe there was a bit of a lag before it reached America in the past - looking back at old posts (I was talking about the end of season 2 in October; then a flurry of new posts hit in April), I'd say it was a good six months. But maybe they won't delay so long this time?

Edited June 17, 2023 by Llywela
typo

[Maren]

I watched season 3 and the last episode had an end scene that really felt like the show was ending. No cliffhanger or anything but it felt like a goodbye from the cast. 

[Llywela]

On 6/19/2023 at 3:46 AM, Maren said:

I watched season 3 and the last episode had an end scene that really felt like the show was ending. No cliffhanger or anything but it felt like a goodbye from the cast. 

How have you watched season 3 to the end? Only one episode has aired so far. Even ITV's online hub only has the one episode, they've not made the rest of the season available to online viewers.

I just watched that first episode of S3 and my big question is: where did Job and Brad go? They spent two seasons building up this big mystery around Job and now he's suddenly not there anymore, no resolution and no explanation.

[abbyzenn]

Have watched the first episode.  I agree it's strange that there was no mention of Job and Brad - not even a remark in passing.  The new guy is okay but not impressed with the new girl.  While the new guy isn't like Brad , she seems to be Job's replacement but without the likability.  Surprised to see Lena again - I didn't realize she was a doctor.

Amsterdam is a very photogenic city.

 

[Llywela]

I finished watching S3 a while ago, but it made so little impression on me that I forgot to come back here and comment on it.

I find that Van der Valk is a show I want to like more than I actually like, if that makes sense. I initially watched it mostly for Maimie McCoy, who I really liked in The Musketeers (the hair this show has given her continues to make me sad) and for Elliot Barnes-Worrall, who again I enjoyed in previous work, he's a promising young actor who I was sorry to lose in S3.

Overall, I feel like this show is constantly trying too hard without ever quite pulling off whatever it is aiming for. It tries too hard to capture that 'hip' Amsterdam vibe without ever really feeling authentic to me (probably because it can't be authentic, being written and made by Englishmen). It tries too hard to sell Piet Van der Valk as a maverick detective without ever imbuing him with the kind of charisma a character like that so desperately needs - brooding male detectives being assholes to the people around them because they are just so hung up on their own pain are ten a penny in this genre, Mark Warren's take on Van der Valk just bores me, the character just isn't likeable enough to pull it off and make me root for him. It tries too hard to sell the cast as an offbeat 'family' without ever quite convincing me that the relationships between them are real and earned (switching out half the cast for S3 without explanation didn't help). It tries too hard to hint at intriguing backstories that it never then follows through on - don't drop hints if you are never going to explain! A lot of the dialogue comes across as stilted rather than natural. And so on.

I agree with @Maren that the last scene did feel like it could be a goodbye, so if there isn't another season I won't be surprised (but how did you manage to see all three episodes early, before they'd all dropped?)

[dubbel zout]

I watch the show mainly to see Amsterdam. I lived in Holland for five years when I was in the kid (albeit in The Hague), so any chance I can see the land of my youth is one I grab. 

I find the team watchable enough that I keep, uh, watching, but I don't think the cases are that well-written. There's always an interesting hook that never gets fully explored, which I find frustrating.

[Daff]

Well, another fine example of how every PBS local airs what it wants, when it wants. S3, E1 aired for the first time here last night. (Not in June). Not as dark as past seasons. Enjoyed the actors’ comments that followed. 

[Llywela]

20 minutes ago, Daff said:

Well, another fine example of how every PBS local airs what it wants, when it wants. S3, E1 aired for the first time here last night. (Not in June). Not as dark as past seasons. Enjoyed the actors’ comments that followed. 

June was the UK airdate - there has always been a lag of a few months before it transfers to the US.

[chitowngirl]

Primetime shows on PBS are, for the most part, is what is being shown on every PBS station around the country. All other times are what the individual stations decide to program. 

[zoey1996]

Van Der Velk S3 E1, premiered here on my local PBS station last night. I was glad I'd seen an ad for it in August, or I would have missed it, though my DVR would have picked it up.

I'd never heard of Free Running, so that aspect was somewhat interesting. I too enjoy seeing Amsterdam; it's on my bucket list. 

[chitowngirl]

Would “free running” and “parkour” be the same thing? Just an English vs American thing?

For those with Passport, the whole season is available. It looks like there are 3-2 part episodes, for the usual total of 6 episodes.

[magdalene]

Somehow I missed season 2 entirely. Must remedy that.  I never used to find Marc Warren and his previous characters attractive but this show has changed that. He has aged well.

[Llywela]

31 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

Would “free running” and “parkour” be the same thing? Just an English vs American thing?

Similar, but not quite the same thing, no. Related disciplines - freerunning derives from parkour, but has evolved into its own thing. Parkour emphasises efficiency; freerunning emphasises artistry and is more personalised to the individual.

[sempervivum]

Interesting that in the 'behind the scenes' bit at the end of this episode, they made a big point of how they're trying to add humor/lightness to the series. TBH, this one did seem slightly less grim.

[Driad]

I watched on Passport and did not see the 'behind the scenes' bit at the end.  Do I need to look for that separately?

[sempervivum]

8 minutes ago, Driad said:

watched on Passport and did not see the 'behind the scenes' bit at the end.  Do I need to look for that separately?

I watched on local PBS, so I don't know.

[abbyzenn]

On my rewatch of episode 1 of this serious I noticed that they did mention Job and Brad.  Luciane had a postcard from Job which the boss (can't remember her name saw) and Luciane said Job was still traveling with his sister and they were in Viet Nam and might stay awhile.  The boss said Brad was enjoying his time with Interpol.

 

[statsgirl]

I like the new characters, they both feel real-to-life to me.

But why is the blonde doctor who cheated with van der Walk back? Her I could gladly do without.

[alias1]

17 hours ago, statsgirl said:

But why is the blonde doctor who cheated with van der Walk back? Her I could gladly do without.

One of the scenes they replayed when they advertised this show was coming back, was Van Der Valk saying, "I think we should take it to the next level."  Wasn't that where the woman then told him she was getting married?  That was her, right?  Looks like we're in for more relationship drama.  I could do without it, too.

[dubbel zout]

For some reason my DVR didn't pick up the Sunday airing, so I had to watch it later. (And weirder, next Sunday is on the list. Okay, Spectrum.)

Anyhoo. I like the new members of the team, though another cop with a tragic backstory is a gigantic zzzz for me. I am so tired of that trope.

The use of free running is interesting—I hope the show follows through with it and the reason the guy was killed had something to do with that and not some dumb thing they drag in to throw off viewers. 

[statsgirl]

Is it just me or does the solution of an incel guy killing other men so that he could have the woman to himself seem like a cheap way to solve the case?

The movie the pathologist referred to was Crime Without Passion starring Claude Rains and a 15 year old Margo.

[LennieBriscoe]

IDK, I'm kind of getting bored with VDV, Amsterdam scenery or no (I first visited in 1973 and was enchanted. The fourth and last time, not so much.). 

I'll  hang in there, though, for Marc Warren and the Smart-Alec Pathologist [See: Pathologist, Every TV Crime Show]. 

[dubbel zout]

21 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Is it just me or does the solution of an incel guy killing other men so that he could have the woman to himself seem like a cheap way to solve the case?

Not just you. The incel brother didn't quite come out of nowhere, but he didn't tie into the free running at all, so what was the point of that? Local color? Yet another potentially interesting avenue goes mostly unexplored.

If Lenny was killed with a gun, why did they show him injecting himself? I thought there would be some sort of followthrough with that. Silly me.

They had two hours for this case, and the windup was as disappointing as any of the hourlong cases.

[dubbel zout]

The new case was pretty snoozy, which I gather others agree with given the lack of activity in the thread.

[chitowngirl]

I find the second of a two part episode gets things moving and the story really moves along

[Broderbits]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

The new case was pretty snoozy, which I gather others agree with given the lack of activity in the thread.

But we got to see quite a bit of the pathologist, my favorite character, so the episode was fine with me!