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S02.E05: Belly of the Beast/S02.E06: Memento Mori

TexasGal

By TexasGal
in The Alienist [V]

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TexasGal

TexasGal

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18 hours ago, Pachengala said:

 

Oh my garsh the last shot of the love scene, him lying his head down, shot perpendicularly...oh mylanta! 

Same. The chemistry among the main three is so crackling that I think it casts an even starker contrast how little chemistry these two have. Bruhl is an amazing actor—seriously I think he’s a once-a-generation talent—and he’s trying so hard here that I’m buying it on that alone, but they come off as matron/student to me. 

Mom, is that you posting? 😄

The main three really are such great casting.  I like the Isaacsons too, but the one (Marcus?) who is played by the actor who was in Big Love always pulls me out of the scene because I just associate him with Big Love so much.

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Vermicious Knid

Vermicious Knid

Momento Mori was one of the best episodes of the X-Files. Just sayin'.

I'm confused by Libby and the poison too. Also where they tracked her down. I thought they found the Linares baby in the abandoned boarding house, but that was where she had the secret baby lair. There were two locations? Looked up where they were at the end, the producers have Libby looking right at the Grand Union Tea Company, but this site says it was completed in 1915. If you were wondering why Brooklyn was outside the purvue of the NYPD, it wasn't a borough of New York City until 1898. For fun, you can look up what Brooklyn and New York looked at this time period with the map collection of the Brooklyn Historical Society.

 

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PhoneCop

PhoneCop

After waiting so long for the show's return, it's gonna be hard to let it go again so soon. Especially since it doesn't sound like we should hold our breath for a third season. (OTOH, the fact that we even got a second puts me in a Never Say Never headspace.)

Bitsy and Paulie's brushes with death have me convinced the next one will stick and the good guys will suffer some kind of loss. Again.

Haleth

Haleth

I've only watched episode 5, not 6 yet, so I don't want to read this thread yet, but I want to mention how much I hate, hate the cliche of a character (usually a woman) who recklessly goes after the bad guy by herself at night against all common sense.  And this was the second time this season she did that.  It's poor writing.  I appreciate that Sarah was able to handle Libby, but had Googoo been there Sarah would have ended up dead.  It's dumb.

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LadyChaos

LadyChaos

(edited)
50 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I've only watched episode 5, not 6 yet, so I don't want to read this thread yet, but I want to mention how much I hate, hate the cliche of a character (usually a woman) who recklessly goes after the bad guy by herself at night against all common sense.  And this was the second time this season she did that.  It's poor writing.  I appreciate that Sarah was able to handle Libby, but had Googoo been there Sarah would have ended up dead.  It's dumb.

I don't think its poor writing. I think its in keeping with who she is. She really struggles with letting John and Kriesler help her. In the beginning she'd have rather bit her tongue than have Kriesler help her. She also had a huge probably with letting Moore escort her places. She was raised to be a man in a man's world. She is independent. What I'm disappointed in, is it shows a lack of character growth....which is compounded later by Kriesler confirming she did the right thing by running off unchaperoned and putting herself in danger.....REWARD: Baby found. All because of her. Validation that she did the right thing.

 

I'm disappointed that when John is apologizing for what he said to her at the engagement party, saying he did it to hurt her. She says 'i know' . It took a lot for John to stand up to Sarah and then takes it all back. She often treats him just as bad as Lazlo does. I would have liked her to apologize to. I would like to see something from her to recognize she has done wrong by him. 

Edited by LadyChaos
grammer
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Asikus

Asikus

I just can’t believe they made John a cheater. Taking into consideration what he was going through in the first season, after his former fiancée cheated on him and left him, what he did now seems really gross. 
It is also really strange how easy going they all seem to be all of a sudden about sex. In the first season Sara could hardly say the word and the fact that she did, was considered to be brave. Now everyone has one night stands apparently like it’s a How I Met Your Mother episode. Sorry to be so negative I just really don’t like when period dramas miss the fact that people’s upbringing and attitudes towards some issues were completely different to ours. I used to be able to really immerse myself in the show as it felt real, but now for some reason it feels like a bunch of modern people dressed in old fashioned clothes, and I can’t get as invested in it. 

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

4 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

I'm disappointed that when John is apologizing for what he said to her at the engagement party, saying he did it to hurt her. She says 'i know'

That felt like what should have been a mutual apology. What Sara said wasn't really wrong and John did lash out a bit, but Sara should have said something about how that wasn't the time or place for that conversation or that she didn't want him to think she was judging him or something. Its just so hard to get a read on how Sara feels about John, sometimes it feels like she just isn't as into him as he is into her and thats why she didn't accept his proposal, and other times its like she just doesn't like the idea of marriage and thats the only reason she isn't with John. I tend to lean towards her just not liking the idea of being married, and that she does love John, but like I said, its hard to tell. 

Oh John, telling Sara she should bring a chaperon for her investigation. He wasn't wrong, as running after a serial killer on your own is a really really bad idea, but if anyone needs something watching after them at all times, its clearly John. The guy probably cant even run to the store without a near stabbing. 

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LadyChaos

LadyChaos

7 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

That felt like what should have been a mutual apology. What Sara said wasn't really wrong and John did lash out a bit, but Sara should have said something about how that wasn't the time or place for that conversation or that she didn't want him to think she was judging him or something. Its just so hard to get a read on how Sara feels about John, sometimes it feels like she just isn't as into him as he is into her and thats why she didn't accept his proposal, and other times its like she just doesn't like the idea of marriage and thats the only reason she isn't with John. I tend to lean towards her just not liking the idea of being married, and that she does love John, but like I said, its hard to tell. 

Oh John, telling Sara she should bring a chaperon for her investigation. He wasn't wrong, as running after a serial killer on your own is a really really bad idea, but if anyone needs something watching after them at all times, its clearly John. The guy probably cant even run to the store without a near stabbing. 

With that, I'm curious as to why his trauma of being raped is not being addresses at all....or mentioned if he even remembers. 

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ElectricBoogaloo

ElectricBoogaloo

9 hours ago, Asikus said:

It is also really strange how easy going they all seem to be all of a sudden about sex. In the first season Sara could hardly say the word and the fact that she did, was considered to be brave. Now everyone has one night stands apparently like it’s a How I Met Your Mother episode. Sorry to be so negative I just really don’t like when period dramas miss the fact that people’s upbringing and attitudes towards some issues were completely different to ours. I used to be able to really immerse myself in the show as it felt real, but now for some reason it feels like a bunch of modern people dressed in old fashioned clothes, and I can’t get as invested in it. 

While it's true that people in the 20th century are more open about premarital sex, it's always existed even in the upper class. The main difference is that these days, unmarried women who get pregnant are less likely to be sent to a place like the Lying In Hospital (although there are still places where things like that happen today).

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Asikus

Asikus

(edited)
2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

While it's true that people in the 20th century are more open about premarital sex, it's always existed even in the upper class. The main difference is that these days, unmarried women who get pregnant are less likely to be sent to a place like the Lying In Hospital (although there are still places where things like that happen today).

Yes of course it existed but much more commonly in lower classes (that’s why Marcus and his girl were a non issue to me).

Women of Sara’s and Violet’s upbringing would have been taught from a very early age that premarital sex can destroy their entire lives, not to mention it is dirty and makes them used and worthless.

Of course it is not the case, but no matter how progressive and educated you are there is a huge leap from living in that environment your entire life and seducing a dude in your lingerie during a party.

All of this could still happen but not so randomly and with no repercussions. I guess I expect more insight like this from a show so focused on psychology. 

Edited by Asikus
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Haleth

Haleth

Ted Levine is a superb actor.  He looks and sounds just like a turn of the century NYC cop should.

I might have missed it but I've been trying to figure out which Vanderbilt this is.  Cornelius II (grandson of the Commodore)?  He would have been the head of the family at this time.  Looking at the family tree there is one grandson who was born around this time, in 1900.  (I know, this is fiction, not to be taken literally.)

Huh, I didn't know Timothy Olyphant is a Vanderbilt.  

(If you want to read a really interesting side note about a Vanderbilt protégé, look up Tennie Claflin on Wiki.)

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Asikus

Asikus

52 minutes ago, Haleth said:

 

I might have missed it but I've been trying to figure out which Vanderbilt this is.  Cornelius II (grandson of the Commodore)?  He would have been the head of the family at this time. 

I believe you’re right. There is a very interesting article about it on questmag page titled “Hollywood Versus History: Decoding NYC Society’s Past in The Alienist”

To quote just a short part from it "In fact, Cornelius Vanderbilt, who is a character in The Alienist books, had a real-life run-in with the law, explains Daniel Czitrom, author of New York Exposed: The Gilded Age Police Scandal that Launched the Progressive Era (Oxford University Press). According to Czitrom, Vanderbilt’s son-in-law, Robert Crawford, was involved in a wild shoot-out on the street near the family’s mansion. When the police chased down Crawford hiding in Vanderbilt’s home, the business magnate sent for Thomas Byrnes, captain of the Mercer Street Station, requesting $2,000 to invest on his behalf. Leveraging his stock market connections, Vanderbilt quickly turned that $2,000 in to $6,000 as a reward to quell the scandal. ”

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Razzberry

Razzberry

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

Huh, I didn't know Timothy Olyphant is a Vanderbilt. 

I didn't know that either.  He doesn't advertise it.  Just when I thought he couldn't possibly get more attractive. 😍

 

Interesting article on PBS about how premarital sex has changed through the years.   https://www.pbs.org/fmc/book/4family2.htm

I don't know why period shows always do this. I love a gratuitous sex scene as much as anyone, but would rather they don't if it doesn't fit.   And speaking of,  I haven't seen Moore spending a lot of time at a gym lifting weights in his time off, but may have missed it.

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pezgirl7

pezgirl7

(edited)
4 hours ago, Razzberry said:

Interesting article on PBS about how premarital sex has changed through the years.   https://www.pbs.org/fmc/book/4family2.htm

I don't know why period shows always do this. I love a gratuitous sex scene as much as anyone, but would rather they don't if it doesn't fit.   And speaking of,  I haven't seen Moore spending a lot of time at a gym lifting weights in his time off, but may have missed it.

So only 6% of people had premarital sex in 1900. Interesting. I guess most shows are more concerned about what they think people want to see, and not what is historically accurate. I read a review, written by a man, that said the sex scene was practically sexless. From what I've heard from women, it was one of the best sex scenes they've seen on TV, and they liked that it was focused on the woman's pleasure without showing her nude. I guess some men want to see more.

It also bothers me a little when men are so buff in historical shows/movies. I guess most actors are too vain to let themselves go a little and be seen that way on film. But maybe the place where John fences also has a workout room!

Edited by pezgirl7
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libgirl2

libgirl2

7 hours ago, Razzberry said:

I didn't know that either.  He doesn't advertise it.  Just when I thought he couldn't possibly get more attractive. 😍

 

Interesting article on PBS about how premarital sex has changed through the years.   https://www.pbs.org/fmc/book/4family2.htm

I don't know why period shows always do this. I love a gratuitous sex scene as much as anyone, but would rather they don't if it doesn't fit.   And speaking of,  I haven't seen Moore spending a lot of time at a gym lifting weights in his time off, but may have missed it.

I know! Hello there gorgeous! 

Irlandesa

Irlandesa

(edited)
16 hours ago, Razzberry said:

Interesting article on PBS about how premarital sex has changed through the years.   https://www.pbs.org/fmc/book/4family2.htm

It's interesting but it points out the difficulties of trying to collect such data and it never really explains how it accounts for some of those difficulties like women who grew up in the early 1900s are probably less likely to give a truthful answer on pre-marital sex, if they had it, than a woman who grew up in the late 1900s when attitudes around premarital sex had greatly shifted. 

The 6% isn't 6% of women had pre-marital sex; it's 6% of unmarried 19 year old women with prior sexual experience.  And since people married much younger back then, they're more likely to just get married. We don't know the rates for older women.

In no way would it be prevalent and widespread but I bet the actual number is higher than the 6%. 

Neither Violet or Sara are 19. As I don't think marriage is something Sara seems keen on pursuing, her decision made sense to me.  Violet's didn't work for me if she's a virgin.  If she were a widow with more experience, it would. 

11 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

I read a review, written by a man, that said the sex scene was practically sexless. From what I've heard from women, it was one of the best sex scenes they've seen on TV, and they liked that it was focused on the woman's pleasure without showing her nude. I guess some men want to see more.

That's funny.  The scene had the requisite pumping motion and nudity but I guess since the nudity was his, it doesn't count? 

The focus on her is what I loved so much about it; it was primarily focused on Sara's pleasure and experience--John undressing her, the implication he was giving her oral sex without us needing to see his head between her bare legs, the focus on her face when he was over her and after. 

 

Edited by Irlandesa
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ferjy

ferjy

On 8/5/2020 at 3:18 PM, tennisgurl said:

Oh John, telling Sara she should bring a chaperon for her investigation. He wasn't wrong, as running after a serial killer on your own is a really really bad idea, but if anyone needs something watching after them at all times, its clearly John. The guy probably cant even run to the store without a near stabbing. 

🤣 She probably tries to sneak off without him so she doesn’t have to save him yet again. She’s tired of him slowing her down. 

 

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ferjy

ferjy

(edited)
On 8/4/2020 at 10:06 AM, libgirl2 said:

I always took at as the character not being comfortable in her own skin. 

I didn’t think so. I tend to agree with others that Dakota Fanning has bad posture. I’ve noticed it in her movies, it’s just more prominent here.

 

On 8/3/2020 at 8:07 PM, lightninggirl said:

It actually seems to get worse and worse each episode. I've worn plenty of corsets, and they've always made me throw my shoulders back to breathe better rather than hunch over like Quasimodo. Lord.

I thought exactly that about corsets, it seems that they would keep your shoulders back all the more. 

 

Edited by ferjy
Damned autocorrect.
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ferjy

ferjy

(edited)
On 8/4/2020 at 1:53 AM, Pachengala said:

Oh my garsh the last shot of the love scene, him lying his head down, shot perpendicularly...oh mylanta! 

That’s why I’m a little late to the thread this week. After that scene, I slobbered all over the house, took me a while to clean it up. 😁

Luke Edwards is a gorgeous man at the worst of times, but that shot was especially beautiful. 

 

Edited by ferjy
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ferjy

ferjy

On 8/4/2020 at 1:53 AM, Pachengala said:

Same. The chemistry among the main three is so crackling that I think it casts an even starker contrast how little chemistry these two have. Bruhl is an amazing actor—seriously I think he’s a once-a-generation talent—and he’s trying so hard here

Count me in as well as not seeing the chemistry between these two. It’s weird, it’s mostly on her side I don’t feel it. Brühl could have chemistry with a cardboard box. He definitely is one of the best actors I’ve seen. And I like Lara Pulver, so I’m not sure whether it’s the character. Too stiff somehow. 

 

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jenn31

jenn31

On 8/5/2020 at 3:18 PM, tennisgurl said:

Oh John, telling Sara she should bring a chaperon for her investigation. He wasn't wrong, as running after a serial killer on your own is a really really bad idea, but if anyone needs something watching after them at all times, its clearly John. The guy probably cant even run to the store without a near stabbing. 

I half expected Sara to say “You’re right, let me get Marcus.”

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