S01.E05: Monsters Recede but Never Vanish

[formerlyfreedom]

As Michelle's loved ones cope with her sudden death, her work to unmask the Golden State Killer lives on. Inspired by McNamara's interest in genealogy and online DNA testing services, Paul Holes, Chief of Forensics in Contra Costa County, reconstructs the killer's family tree with the help of genetic genealogist Barbara-Rae Venter. After inheriting Michelle's 37 boxes of case files, researcher Paul Haynes and true crime writer Billy Jensen work alongside Michelle's husband, Patton Oswalt, to finish her book, which becomes an instant bestseller. Meanwhile, the release of Michelle's autopsy report rocks her inner circle.

Airing Sunday, July 26, 2020.

[scrb]

Kind of zoned out when they talked about Michelle’s demise.  Sad but main subject is the hunt.  Of course she was dogged and obsessive in her pursuit but is her role overstated because of her collateral celebrity and Patton’s promotion of her role?

Seems like the other true crime hunters were at least as instrumental and then this DNA expert is he one who found him.

In fact this case was busted wide open because DNA identified the suspect.  These crime buffs gorged on all the details like cultural anthropologists reconstructing a bygone era.

But unless I missed it, they never came up with a list of plausible suspects nor did the police, whose files they and Michelle had.

 

Without thinking about it I watched all of Mindhunter, how they analyzed the cases and the interviews, with the help of the clinical psychologist character.  They identified traits ad tendencies of serial killers and while they were building up this profiling methodology, they could apply it to live cases to narrow the characteristics of likely suspects.

IOW, they developed actual techniques based on reasoning, to capture serial murderers.  These buffs like Michelle just obsessed over details but probably never would have identified the suspect without DNA techniques, which also helped convict the guy.

 

[Annber03]

"I had to look at this little girl who meant everything to me, and take everything away from her."

Damn. That line from Patton really got to me. As did his comments about how at least in 2016, he still had a few months where Michelle was part of it, whereas in 2017 and onward, he won't have any of that. My heart just broke for him and Alice here. I'm glad that Alice at least will have some memories of her mom to cling to, and things of hers she can read and watch/listen to as she gets older. 

His guilt over not noticing how deep Michelle's issue with prescription drugs was was palpable, too. I didn't really think about the fact that she died the same day as Prince, and how eerie it is that they both died in a similar manner. It's interesting to see that there seemed to be a history of these kinds of addiction/depression issues in her family-I liked the way this episode dealt with the theme of the harm keeping secrets, be it about drug issues or depression or sexual assault*, and what not talking about these issues can do, both to families and to the people suffering.

*I seriously can't imagine not being able to talk to your parents about being attacked. I know it was a different time and all, but I just could not imagine my parents refusing to discuss something so horrible with me, or feeling like I couldn't come to them to talk about it. That's just horrifically sad. I'm glad these women are feeling more comfortable opening up now, and that they do have people they can turn to to talk about these things if and when needed now. 

I also like that this episode explained why true crime has always held such a fascination for people. Moments like this, when we get to see justice finally prevail, definitely add to the interest. It's a reminder that yes, good can triumph over evil. 

Using that 23andMe thing to try and track down this killer...that's just wild. On the one hand, it's amazing that they were able to use that technology that way, but on the other hand, I can't help being a bit nervous and wary about relying on that kind of technology, because I imagine there's got to be instances where it could be rather sketchy in its accuracy, too. Technology isn't perfect, after all. 

Also, the revelation that this guy apparently had a daughter at one point is...horrifying. 

27 minutes ago, scrb said:

Of course she was dogged and obsessive in her pursuit but is her role overstated because of her collateral celebrity and Patton’s promotion of her role?

Seems like the other true crime hunters were at least as instrumental and then this DNA expert is he one who found him.

I think there may be some truth to what you say about her role in comparison to other people's, but I do feel her connections were very helpful in the sense that it made it much easier to bring some national notoriety that had clearly evaded this case for so long. And I also definitely feel that if Michelle were here, she'd be among the first to credit all the other people who put in their own amount of hard work and time and effort to work this case, too. I do appreciate that they are discussing the role these other people played in helping to nab this guy at long last-it's always fascinating to see the collaborative efforts involved in trying to solve these kinds of cases. 

[Cheezwiz]

37 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I also definitely feel that if Michelle were here, she'd be among the first to credit all the other people who put in their own amount of hard work and time and effort to work this case, too. I do appreciate that they are discussing the role these other people played in helping to nab this guy at long last-it's always fascinating to see the collaborative efforts involved in trying to solve these kinds of cases. 

Agree - this kind of investigation was a team effort & I absolutely think she would have given credit where credit was due. I guess it's arguable how big a role she had in the case finally being solved, but I definitely think some of the connections she was making would have undoubtedly been helpful. It also seems she may have been one of the first to float the idea of using a DNA ancestry service as an investigative avenue.

How bizarre that the group who pulled her book together found out about D'Angelo's arrest the night after a big book release event. I felt so sad for Patton when he said he wished the cameras were pointing at Michelle rather than him after word of the arrest got out.

So many sad things in this episode, it was clear that Michelle was struggling not just the completion of the book, but with long-term depression and addiction issues that may have had some basis in her family's genetics. Incredibly sad that her friend Melanie wasn't aware that Michelle had become so dependent on opiates, as she had also had overcome similar struggles and may have been able to help. They seemed like they were a great team together.

It also sounded like some of the drugs she had obtained may have been cut with fentanyl, rather than her obtaining fentanyl on its own?

This episode may not have been up the alley of true crime enthusiasts, but I thought it was a moving exploration of grief, and the terrible shock everyone endured. I highly recommend Patton's comedy special "Annihilation" on Netflix for those who haven't seen it. He truly spun gold out of a terrible tragedy, (and yes it's actually both incredibly funny and sad).

Something that's been on my. mind while watching this series was expressed (I think) by the host of My Favourite Murder: that people had a hard time grappling with the fact that addiction played a part in Michelle's death, but that most of us seek escape in some form or another.

I've sensed kind of a judgemental tone in a some of the previous comments that has been irking me. The reality is that pretty much everyone has some sort of addiction. Whether it's drugs, alcohol, food, shopping online, playing video games, etc. It may be somewhere on a continuum, and may never reach a level of harmfulness to one's self or family, and may never interfere with a person's work life. But under the right circumstances, and specific stressors I believe many people may find the balance tipping off kilter. Everyone has something as a potential pitfall. Everyone. 

 

 

 

[FoundTime]

Yes, Annihilation on Netflix is well worth the watch.

Interesting thing about the consumer DNA databases being used to solve crimes now -- I read in a New York Times article about a year ago (I'll link it if I can find it; it referenced this case), that when you're arrested and your DNA goes into a criminal database, that's one thing, but when you're just a private citizen and your DNA winds up being used to solve a crime, that's another. Issues of consent and all that.

Boy, all those McNamaras really have the exact same smile, don't they? You can sure tell they're related to each other 🙄

I don't think it's unfair to give Michelle credit in solving the case. It was her best-selling (and oh yeah, critically acclaimed) book, it was she who had this whole team of people working with her who were then motivated to continue the work after her death.

Interesting to see Billy Jensen in this ep. He came to our local mystery bookstore here before I'd read the book, so I didn't go to the event. Didn't want to be spoiled. Oh well 😕

[cardigirl]

I thought this was a really well-done episode. Now the story is really Michelle's story and not so much about the Golden State Killer, which, I guess was always the case. I appreciated that they didn't shy away from talking about her cause of death.

Those interviews with the family and with Patton, after they found out the cause of death, must have been so difficult for them and for the directors to film. 

Fentanyl is so dangerous. While I believe it was an accidental overdose, I really wish she could have found the will to seek some help, for the sake of her child.  

I was not sure what to think about telling Alice that she's a memory of her mother and that everything she does reflects her mother.  Seems like a lot of weight for a child to carry. Maybe I'm reading too much into that. 

[carrps]

8 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

It also seems she may have been one of the first to float the idea of using a DNA ancestry service as an investigative avenue.

...

I've sensed kind of a judgemental tone in a some of the previous comments that has been irking me. The reality is that pretty much everyone has some sort of addiction. Whether it's drugs, alcohol, food, shopping online, playing video games, etc. It may be somewhere on a continuum, and may never reach a level of harmfulness to one's self or family, and may never interfere with a person's work life. But under the right circumstances, and specific stressors I believe many people may find the balance tipping off kilter. Everyone has something as a potential pitfall. Everyone. 

Yes, she was pretty early on encouraging using 23andMe.

...

Your last paragraph mirrors my feelings exactly. I know that I'm a stress-eater, and if I end up keeling over from blocked arteries, it's not so very different a thing.

[sistermagpie]

11 hours ago, FoundTime said:

I don't think it's unfair to give Michelle credit in solving the case. It was her best-selling (and oh yeah, critically acclaimed) book, it was she who had this whole team of people working with her who were then motivated to continue the work after her death.

 

Yeah, I think what made her important was that she was a great writer and that brought important attention to the case, plus the work she did along the way was just part of the larger effort of many people. There just isn't one person you can point to to stand out among everyone else, but the book is what really made it a wider pop culture event.

8 hours ago, cardigirl said:

 

I was not sure what to think about telling Alice that she's a memory of her mother and that everything she does reflects her mother.  Seems like a lot of weight for a child to carry. Maybe I'm reading too much into that. 

I see what you mean. She's young enough that I thinks she'll take the metaphor any way she wants, and with a father who's so supportive and loving he'll make sure it's in a positive way. As a little kid she might like feeling like she's still connected to her mother and it would only be at an older age that she'd feel it as a weight to live up to.

Love the principal's advice about not telling her when she got home from school and then she'd have to go to bed soon after. Tell her in the daylight. I never would have thought of that, but it's great advice.

[Cheezwiz]

4 hours ago, carrps said:

Your last paragraph mirrors my feelings exactly. I know that I'm a stress-eater, and if I end up keeling over from blocked arteries, it's not so very different a thing.

Same here - food is my life-long struggle. I'm not doing anything illegal, not hurting anyone else, and it's not interfering with my day-to-day activities, but I know it's an escape for me, and cumulatively is damaging my health over time. Perhaps that's why I empathized with Michelle's story.

I think most people have been kind on these boards, but when someone OD's there is sometimes an element of pearl-clutching  and subtle dismissal of the good things they accomplished before addiction overcame them.

She thought she had it under control, until she didn't.

 

 

[heatherchandler]

15 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I seriously can't imagine not being able to talk to your parents about being attacked. I know it was a different time and all, but I just could not imagine my parents refusing to discuss something so horrible with me, or feeling like I couldn't come to them to talk about it.

I can't imagine TALKING to my parents about it.  I would never want my parents to know.  Of course, as a mother, I hope and pray my kids come to me if anything happened, God forbid.  But I would never tell my parents about my assault.

 

9 hours ago, cardigirl said:

 

I was not sure what to think about telling Alice that she's a memory of her mother and that everything she does reflects her mother.  Seems like a lot of weight for a child to carry. Maybe I'm reading too much into that. 

I think Alice is the one who said this to him.

 

54 minutes ago, Cheezwiz said:

 

She thought she had it under control, until she didn't.

 

 

That's how it always goes.

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

I can't imagine TALKING to my parents about it.  I would never want my parents to know.  Of course, as a mother, I hope and pray my kids come to me if anything happened, God forbid.  But I would never tell my parents about my assault.

I mean, I could understand someone not wanting to tell their because they don't want to see them upset or and afraid for them or something like that. It would indeed be tough for your parents to know that someone hurt you so badly, to say nothing of the guilt they may feel on top of it all. 

But to not want to tell them because you're afraid they'd judge you, or to not tell them because it's just something that "we don't talk about" in general, or things like that...that just seems so heartbreaking to me. 

[heatherchandler]

4 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I mean, I could understand someone not wanting to tell their because they don't want to see them upset or and afraid for them or something like that. It would indeed be tough for your parents to know that someone hurt you so badly, to say nothing of the guilt they may feel on top of it all. 

But to not want to tell them because you're afraid they'd judge you, or to not tell them because it's just something that "we don't talk about" in general, or things like that...that just seems so heartbreaking to me. 

I would guess (since this is the reason for me) is that she would not want to tell her parents because of how much pain it would bring.  It would crush them.  

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, Cheezwiz said:

Same here - food is my life-long struggle. I'm not doing anything illegal, not hurting anyone else, and it's not interfering with my day-to-day activities, but I know it's an escape for me, and cumulatively is damaging my health over time. Perhaps that's why I empathized with Michelle's story.

I think most people have been kind on these boards, but when someone OD's there is sometimes an element of pearl-clutching  and subtle dismissal of the good things they accomplished before addiction overcame them.

She thought she had it under control, until she didn't.

 

 

And there are people whose drug use is far more extreme who don't die too. If she hadn't died she might have gone her whole life without anybody knowing she had a problem--she might not have continued using drugs the same way etc. It's just that she died and then there was this spotlight on her and suddenly her whole life is defined by that. I believe it was even said that when Patton first went in with the coffee she was breathing, so who knows what kinds of things can happen physically. It seems like as health risks go, Michelle just wasn't so very different from people who don't die in their early 40s.

This happened to someone I know last year. Young person (30s) with no particular health concerns--certainly nothing that would lead you to predict her to simply not wake up one morning. And that was just sleep apnea.

[Arynm]

A couple things really stood out to me in this episode. I think that Michelle dying put a spotlight on the GSK and might have actually be instrumental in getting the case solved. It lit a fire under everyone's ass so to speak.

I also noticed that the were very careful to use her name and not "Patton Oswalt's wife, Michelle McNamara" which is what i saw everywhere after her death. She is her own person, not just someone's wife. So I really appreciated that.

I have uploaded my DNA to Gedmatch so I have a pretty good idea of how it works and you have to opt in to have your DNA available for law enforcement to use it. So if someone doesn't want it available for the police to see, that is an option. It is even the default, you have to choose to make it available. If you have committed a heinous crime, you better watch out, you can not control what you 3rd cousin twice removed does with their own DNA.

I opted-in, I don't feel the need to protect anyone from their own mistakes.

[carrps]

2 hours ago, Arynm said:

I opted-in, I don't feel the need to protect anyone from their own mistakes.

Me, too. And I found a cousin (they said first cousin or first cousin once removed) that I never knew about. She'd been adopted and had very, very little biographical data on her birth parents. Another cousin of mine and I can't figure out who her parents are. A teenage out-of-wedlock (jeez, do we still use that term?) birth. The ages don't fit for her to be my first cousin (if the bio data she received was accurate), so she's probably a first cousin once removed. Maybe we'll figure it out one day. I hope so! But right now it was a pleasant surprise that my DNA made pop up.

[Milburn Stone]

2 hours ago, Arynm said:

A couple things really stood out to me in this episode. I think that Michelle dying put a spotlight on the GSK and might have actually be instrumental in getting the case solved. It lit a fire under everyone's ass so to speak.

Definitely. It's a funny thing. This episode wasn't two seconds in when I had the thought, "You know, for all her problems that are maddening to behold, she really did cause the GSK to get caught. No way law enforcement would have had the fire lit under them to get it done if not for her Los Angeles article and the book."

And then the episode went on to make exactly that point.

[marny]

 I thought it was incredibly sad when the woman who had been the young victim of the EAR said that she likely wouldn’t have been willing to talk about her rape if her parents were still alive because it would have been too hard for them for her to be open about it. To go through such trauma and have it compounded with the pressure to stay quiet about it because your parents thought it was embarrassing to the family, as if she had done something wrong by being raped. I know not much has changed really, but my heart broke for her at the questioning of who she could have been if she’d been able to deal with her trauma before now. 
 

I do wonder if she hadn’t died if Michelle ever would have finished the book. Especially if he hadn’t been caught. 

Edited July 28, 2020 by marny

[MicheleinPhilly]

I had watched Patton's Annihilation special on Netflix the night before so I felt a bit more emotionally prepared for this episode but it was still a tough one. Although Patton's binding of Michelle's other writings for Alice got me good. 😢 I can't imagine how difficult it was for him and Michelle's siblings and friends to sit for these interviews. 

The timing of DeAngelo's arrest following the book's publication was surreal. I remember reading the book as soon as it was published and being completely spooked that this individual could very well still be alive and absolutely FURIOUS that he had never faced justice. When they announced his arrest a few weeks later I was completely gobsmacked. 

I am firmly in the "Michelle contributed mightily to his capture even if she never fingered him specifically as a suspect" camp. We've seen in this show how badly the various law enforcement agencies bungled the investigations with their pissing contests and jurisdictional squabbles. In addition to the attention she brought to the cases, she did a LOT of ground work tying together so many disparate strands of the investigations. 

Something I've been wondering about since episode 1: Does anyone know whether the ring that Patton wears on his right hand is his original wedding band? 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 7/27/2020 at 12:08 AM, Cheezwiz said:

I've sensed kind of a judgemental tone in a some of the previous comments that has been irking me. The reality is that pretty much everyone has some sort of addiction. Whether it's drugs, alcohol, food, shopping online, playing video games, etc. It may be somewhere on a continuum, and may never reach a level of harmfulness to one's self or family, and may never interfere with a person's work life. But under the right circumstances, and specific stressors I believe many people may find the balance tipping off kilter. Everyone has something as a potential pitfall. Everyone. 

I agree. Everyone has stress and anxiety in their lives and we all find ways to cope. Some are just deemed more acceptable than other. If you tell people that you run/work out/do yoga to deal with your stress, people will praise you (despite the fact that there are A LOT of people who work out too much and get totally obsessive about what they eat) because that falls under society's idea of self care, being healthy, etc. ANY kind of coping mechanism can be taken to the extreme which is when it becomes harmful.

Just because someone drinks to relax after a stressful day doesn't necessarily mean that they're an alcoholic, but somehow because Michelle was using a different form of drugs there have been some judgmental/condescending attitudes about it. The thing about trying to solve a murder is that you can never unsee or unknow what you've discovered. Immersing yourself in the details of a serial rapist and murderer and trying to find him would be enough to give lots of people nightmares.

Michelle admitted that she couldn't sleep (and when she did, she was having nightmares), which is why she was self medicating. As someone who has had insomnia before, you cannot function if you don't sleep. I already knew that as a common sense thing but my former boss's wife was a sleep researcher which just made me even more aware of how impaired you become after even just a little bit of sleep deprivation. It's really frustrating to be completely exhausted but still unable to sleep. And if you have any kind of responsibilities (like a kid or a job), it's impossible to keep functioning if you don't some sleep after a few days. Your brain just can't handle it.

I don't know what Michelle's exact situation was or where she was getting the drugs (it's possible that a doctor prescribed them because she couldn't sleep), but it's obvious that she could not be a mom, a wife, or a writer if she didn't get at least a few hours of sleep each night. I'm guessing that if she was taking that combination of drugs, she had already tried lots of other things that didn't work. People don't go from "oops, only slept 7 hours last night" to the cycle of uppers/downers she was doing in a matter of a week.

Edited July 29, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo
typos

[Milburn Stone]

On 7/27/2020 at 2:08 AM, Cheezwiz said:

I've sensed kind of a judgemental tone in a some of the previous comments that has been irking me. The reality is that pretty much everyone has some sort of addiction. Whether it's drugs, alcohol, food, shopping online, playing video games, etc. It may be somewhere on a continuum, and may never reach a level of harmfulness to one's self or family, and may never interfere with a person's work life. But under the right circumstances, and specific stressors I believe many people may find the balance tipping off kilter. Everyone has something as a potential pitfall. Everyone.

This is a good corrective. I haven't been judgmental about her substance use, but I have (in previous episodes) been judgmental about her procrastination and perfectionism. We tend to be most judgmental about those things we hate or fear in ourselves.

[ThatGreyCat]

Patton's wedding band is probably his ring for his new marriage (to an actress).  He married her a little over a year after Michelle died.  Which was pretty quick, honestly.  

I find it terribly distracting how much Michelle looks like Diane Schuler, featured in There's Something Wrong with Aunt Diane.  And all the talk about how they were perfectionists, etc.  I feel terrible, but Michelle reminds me of her, so much.  Weirdly, Liz Garbus, who is the director of this show, was also the director of There's Something Wrong with Aunt Diane.  

I'm dubious that her drug use was entirely the result of the disturbing things she was researching.  I think it was probably an issue before that.

[MicheleinPhilly]

26 minutes ago, ThatGreyCat said:

Patton's wedding band is probably his ring for his new marriage (to an actress).  He married her a little over a year after Michelle died.  Which was pretty quick, honestly.  

I know he got re-married and assume that's the ring he wears on his left hand. But if you look closely in his talking heads on the show, he wears a similar ring on the ring finger of his right hand too. I was just curious if perhaps that is his ring from his marriage to Michelle. Just something I noticed and was curious about. 

[sistermagpie]

4 hours ago, ThatGreyCat said:

Patton's wedding band is probably his ring for his new marriage (to an actress).  He married her a little over a year after Michelle died.  Which was pretty quick, honestly.  

Gotta say from listening to him that he seems like someone who's just made to be married. That's not meant to be derogatory in any way, but I think along with loving Michelle that's a domestic life that just suits him. I wouldn't be surprised if that ring on his right hand was his first wedding ring.

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by sistermagpie

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The thing about trying to solve a murder is that you can never unsee or unknow what you've discovered. Immersing yourself in the details of a serial rapist and murdrer and trying to find him would be enough to give lots of people nightmares.

Hell, look at all the stories we've heard about people in law enforcement who've talked about the cases that still haunt them to this very day, even though it's been decades since they worked them. And we've heard the stories about how detectives will obsess over a case to the point where they lose their marriages and sometimes their entire families in the process (I think there was an investigator working the Green River Killer case who talked about going through something like that). 

I appreciate and totally understand the dedication to try and catch these creeps, of course, but yeah, it's very easy to see where that dedication can lead people to a dark, dark place of their own. 

[heatherchandler]

4 hours ago, ThatGreyCat said:

I find it terribly distracting how much Michelle looks like Diane Schuler, featured in There's Something Wrong with Aunt Diane. 

I'm dubious that her drug use was entirely the result of the disturbing things she was researching.  I think it was probably an issue before that.

 

OMG she really does!  I knew she reminded me of someone, but I could not place her.

 

Oh for SURE it was an issue before.  

 

[Robert Lynch]

The actress that Patton got married to is 1980s star Meredith Salenger from Dream A Little Dream and that River Phoenix movie she was in.

[carrps]

On 7/28/2020 at 6:34 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

As someone who has had insomnia before, you cannot function if you don't sleep. I already knew that as a common sense thing but my former boss's wife was a sleep researcher which just made me even more aware of how impaired you become after even just a little bit of sleep deprivation. It's really frustrating to be completely exhausted but still unable to sleep. And if you have any kind of responsibilities (like a kid or a job), it's impossible to keep functioning if you don't some sleep after a few days. Your brain just can't handle it.

This is so true. Earlier this year I read an excellent book called Why We Sleep by Matthew Walker. Scared the crap out of me, because he did physiological studies on sleep that showed how much harm a lack of sleep can cause. I highly recommend it. Very readable, too.

 

2 hours ago, Robert Lynch said:

The actress that Patton got married to is 1980s star Meredith Salenger from Dream A Little Dream and that River Phoenix movie she was in.

She was also in The Journey of Natty Gann which is where I first saw her. Her dad was my dentist for a while. Nice guy.

[heatherchandler]

6 minutes ago, carrps said:

This is so true. Earlier this year I read an excellent book called Why We Sleep by Matthew Walker. Scared the crap out of me, because he did physiological studies on sleep that showed how much harm a lack of sleep can cause. I highly recommend it. Very readable, too.

She was also in The Journey of Natty Gann which is where I first saw her. Her dad was my dentist for a while. Nice guy.

From Huffpost - A study shows[1] that moderate sleep deprivation produces impairments equivalent to those of alcohol intoxication. After 17 to 19 hours without sleep, performance was equivalent or worse than that of a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) level of 0.05 percent. After longer periods without sleep, performance reached levels equivalent to a BAC of 0.1 percent.

I know that when I don't sleep, I am useless - nothing will get done, and I am in a really bad mood all day, feeling like I want to crawl out of my skin.

 

I remember Meredith Salenger from Dream a Little Dream, dancing around with Corey Feldman!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

38 minutes ago, carrps said:

This is so true. Earlier this year I read an excellent book called Why We Sleep by Matthew Walker. Scared the crap out of me, because he did physiological studies on sleep that showed how much harm a lack of sleep can cause. I highly recommend it. Very readable, too.

My former boss's wife was a post-doc at the UC Berkeley sleep lab which Matthew Walker now runs (she finished her post-doc just before he arrived). Her research included administering cognitive tests to sleep deprived subjects. It's amazing how quickly your coordination and decision making abilities drop off with even just slight sleep deprivation. That's a huge reason why I empathize with Michelle self medicating so she could sleep. You really can't function well enough to be an attentive mom, a competent researcher, and a writer simultaneously if you are in a constant state of sleep deprivation.

[carrps]

1 minute ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

My former boss's wife was a post-doc at the UC Berkeley sleep lab which Matthew Walker now runs (she finished her post-doc just before he arrived). Her research included administering cognitive tests to sleep deprived subjects. It's amazing how quickly your coordination and decision making abilities drop off with even just slight sleep deprivation. 

Cool! 

[Robert Lynch]

What is ironic is that Patton Oswalt did a VH1’s I Love the 80s series which features comedian personalities like Mo Rocco, Michael Ian Black, Mo Collins, and others who talked about pop culture. It was from 2002 and three years before his marriage to Michelle. Does anybody remember the I Love series from VH1? I just found it interesting he married someone associated with the decade. 

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, Robert Lynch said:

Does anybody remember the I Love series from VH1? 

I do :D! Those were fun. I think there's some episodes up on YouTube if one wants to revisit them. 

[Quickbeam]

I think Meredith and Michelle look alike. I have to squint When I see a photo to make sure who it is. 
 

I absolutely think Michelle was the persistent squeaky wheel that caused this to be solved. I really think everyone just gave up. I know it is controversial in some quarters but I *love* that this was solved with DNA. You can’t argue with it! 

[bilgistic]

On 7/28/2020 at 9:14 AM, MicheleinPhilly said:

Something I've been wondering about since episode 1: Does anyone know whether the ring that Patton wears on his right hand is his original wedding band? 

It is. I can't remember where I saw it mentioned; I used to follow him on Twitter before I had to leave that hellscape for my mental health.

Edited July 31, 2020 by bilgistic

[spaceghostess]

On 7/27/2020 at 5:29 PM, heatherchandler said:

I think Alice is the one who said this to him.

You are correct. And Patton’s relating that Alice said it was what really brought me up short. I was a) shocked at what an incredibly perceptive/insightful child she was to realize such a thing so young and b) worried that she’ll be carrying some sort of self-imposed burden throughout her life. But, as others have pointed out, Patton appears to be a very loving—and likewise perceptive and insightful—parent, so hopefully the fact that that statement made an impression on him also means he’s making sure Alice grows up with knowing that the choices she makes belong to HER, not Michelle. That she had a mother who loved her to the moon and back but it isn’t her job to live up to her mom’s successes or down to her failures.

[FoundTime]

Here's that NYT article I mentioned earlier: Playing Catch a Killer With a Room Full of Sleuths