Ratings and Scheduling: Who's the fairest of them all?

[Souris]

1 minute ago, asabovesobelow said:

I sincerely hope the other guys here who said it's just 'media wording' are right. I cannot even imagine how horrific the series would become if they focus on alternate versions of characters that we've gotten to know for six seasons. It's indulgent and lazy.

You watched this show, right? LOL.

[Sarcastica]

Just saw the news that Once was moving to 8 pm Friday nights.

Rest in peace. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by Sarcastica

[Curio]

Guess I won't be watching live very often...

Or maybe it's all a ruse by Netflix to increase their online views. If more people don't watch it on Friday nights, the more they'll be inclined to watch online.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Curio

[sharky]

Grimm and Hannibal have both had success recently on Friday nights. I'm glad ABC is at least pairing Once with a sci-fi/fantasy show instead of all the random other dramas they've paired it with in the past. Plus a new night is another way to signal that this is a big break from the show we used to know.

One of the other good things about this move is they don't have to worry about Sunday awards shows, football or Walking Dead messing with the schedule.

So let's see what happens. Sure, Friday isn't ideal, but I think this move isn't the death sentence it used to be. 

[Shanna Marie]

I'm okay with Fridays. That's been sci fi/fantasy night for me for a long time. I like to make a fun dinner (pizza, tacos, etc.) and relax. Now Sunday can be just for PBS and HBO and it spreads my TV viewing out more over the week instead of everything being on Sunday, and Saturday can be for discussion, so it doesn't interfere with my work week.

[daxx]

Friday is actually good for genre shows. X files lived there for years.

[ParadoxLost]

2 hours ago, sharky said:

Grimm and Hannibal have both had success recently on Friday nights. I'm glad ABC is at least pairing Once with a sci-fi/fantasy show instead of all the random other dramas they've paired it with in the past. Plus a new night is another way to signal that this is a big break from the show we used to know.

One of the other good things about this move is they don't have to worry about Sunday awards shows, football or Walking Dead messing with the schedule.

So let's see what happens. Sure, Friday isn't ideal, but I think this move isn't the death sentence it used to be. 

I think Fridays are going to hurt more than they think exactly because its a genre night.  For two years the only thing keeping me around is this place and that no one counter programs anything in the OUAT 8PM Sunday timeslot that I'm interested in.  And I've been actively trying to be interested in something else, anything else, due to the show's quality.

I haven't looked at the other schedules yet but if any of the other networks are putting sci-fi or fantasy shows on Friday then they will have competition for the eyeballs still on OUAT that they have never had before.

[MadyGirl1987]

1 hour ago, ParadoxLost said:

I haven't looked at the other schedules yet but if any of the other networks are putting sci-fi or fantasy shows on Friday then they will have competition for the eyeballs still on OUAT that they have never had before.

NBC has Blindspot and Fox has Hells Kitchen scheduled for the same time Once will be on. CBS has their upfront tomorrow and CW has theirs on Thursday.

Edited May 16, 2017 by MadyGirl1987

[jjjmoss]

4 hours ago, sharky said:

Grimm and Hannibal have both had success recently on Friday nights. I'm glad ABC is at least pairing Once with a sci-fi/fantasy show instead of all the random other dramas they've paired it with in the past. Plus a new night is another way to signal that this is a big break from the show we used to know.

Grimm was at 65%, 77%, 75%, 68%, and 62% of the network average for the seasons. Once is currently at 76%, so its worst is around Grimm's best.

Hannibal's ratings were terrible throughout.

I can't see 'success.'

[Artsda]

As other have said Friday's isn't the kiss of death. CBS's entire line up of MacGyver, Hawaii 5-0 and Blue Bloods do  amazing on Fridays. 

Edited May 17, 2017 by Artsda

[KAOS Agent]

Sunday night works for family viewing. Friday night does not. It's not the kiss of death necessarily, but a move to Friday doesn't signal that ABC is all that invested in Once continuing beyond next season. 

[Souris]

I saw somebody comment that ABC basically sacrificed Fridays to try to salvage Sundays until Idol premieres.

That sounds about right. Netflix is paying for Once, renewing Shield keeps some synergy with Disney going, so they put them where they could do the least damage to their schedule; that's Fridays.

The fact that Channing Dungey said like one sentence about Once in the presentation was pretty telling.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Souris

[Shanna Marie]

I suspect they're treating the ABC airing as an advertisement for Netflix, DVDs, and merchandise. The ratings are secondary, as long as they can sell some ads, and whatever ad slots they don't sell, they can fill with in-house Disney promotion -- Disney movies, the theme parks, etc.

[Souris]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Netflix deal includes some complimentary ad time.

[ParadoxLost]

Something doesn’t sit right with the ABC schedule and I don’t think it bodes well for OUAT reaching a full season given the cast changes and overall quality.

There are nine fall dramas

• Two not going anywhere (Grey’s, Scandal)
• Three with limited runs (Inhumans, HTGAWM,10 days in the Valley)
• Two new (Good Doctor, Gospel of Kevin )
• Two returning (OUAT, Designated Survivor)

But there are five midseason dramas – with two that are to be replacements for what?

So, let’s say they take the slots for the five hours of fall reality competition/game/news programing

Then what do they do with the five versions of Bachelor/DWTS/Idol they’ve got for midseason which usually take more than an hour on the schedule each (only one of which is specifically intended to counter Olympic programming)?

Then they’ve got two midseason comedies, not counting the Roseanne limited run, when their comedy line up is generally stronger than dramas and only has one new show.

It seems like they over compensated to avoid a repeat of last year.  That or they had done deals for the entire schedule and Idol was so down to the wire that they ended up overcommitted on shows.

If any of the new dramas do decently, I think they’ll end up shifting the some of the competition reality shows to Summer. 

But it begs the question of whether they have such an abundance of backup shows that they will be more willing to burn a DWTS Junior, etc on a Friday to stop the anticipated OUAT bleeding instead of delaying airing..

I'm calling no OUAT back nine, Netflix money truck or not.

Edited May 17, 2017 by ParadoxLost

[Camera One]

Maybe "Once" won't take a mid-season break and will just run right through.  That would provide some room for mid-season dramas.  In addition, there is bound to be some cancelled shows from the fall.  

[jjjmoss]

1 hour ago, Artsda said:

As other have said Friday's isn't the kiss of death. CBS's entire line up of MacGyver, Hawaii 5-0 and Blue Bloods do  amazing on Fridays. 

I wouldn't say "amazing" as all have fallen below a 1 this season, but they do okay probably because their overall audience is old, with between 15% and 18% of their audiences being in the target demo. Once has 37%.

...Anyway, ABC is scrambling for desperate looking options to replace their Flops. American Idol, DWTS Junior, Bachelor in Winter Paradise (FOUR Bachelor shows?), Grey's Anatomy: Seattle Fire. They do not seem happy with what they have. 

[Souris]

If Netflix ponied up for the whole season, they're not going to cancel Once midseason. Unless it gets so bad Once gets pulled and the final eps are Netflix only. I doubt that happens though. I think it's more likely fall shows fail.

I would derive great schadenfreud if it did, though.

I don't think Once CAN run straight through, simply because of production time. They won't have enough eps in the can -- they'd run out of eps weeks before Week 22 air date. They'd have to start earlier than usual and not take a Christmas break.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Souris

[KAOS Agent]

The difference between the audience size on Friday to Sunday is also a big question mark for Once. Last Man Standing was pulling a 1.1 rating with over 6.6 million viewers mid-season for ABC this year in what will be Once's new slot. Does anyone honestly think Once can more than double its finale audience size (2.95 million last Sunday) in this new reboot to come close to matching Last Man Standing's numbers? I think not.

People compare Once to Grimm, but even Grimm was pulling a .8 rating with almost 4 million viewers on Fridays in February this year. Netflix is the only thing keeping this show on the air and they will film and air them all, but the ratings will be brutal.

[ParadoxLost]

What is the source of the information that Netflix bankrolled OUAT season 7?

[Souris]

Oh, and 10 Days in the Valley is limited-run. Ten eps maybe? It goes bye bye for Idol.

But it is a good point that ABC has loaded a lot on deck, even if very little of it looks promising.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Souris

[Artsda]

52 minutes ago, jjjmoss said:

I wouldn't say "amazing" as all have fallen below a 1 this season,

But they get 3x the viewers that Once has on Sundays. They're consistently getting double digits. More eyes is what this show needs as it heads off to syndication.

[KAOS Agent]

30 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

What is the source of the information that Netflix bankrolled OUAT season 7?

From the Hollywood Reporter: "The reboot comes as Once remains a valuable property for ABC. The series, whose live viewership has dwindled to a string of series lows in season six, has a massive SVOD deal with Netflix that is said to be in the eight-figure range. As part of the renewal, ABC and ABC Studios have renegotiated to reduce the show's license fee and profit participation, with creators/showrunners Adam Horowitz and Eddy Kitsis both signing off on the deal."

[Camera One]

"Once" is perfect for Netflix.  

"I'm sure the next episode will be better, right?"  Click.  "Maybe next one?"  Click.  It's a true binge where you feel really crappy after.

[TheGreenKnight]

Not really surprised to see it moved to Friday's. Doesn't bother me. Nobody expected the ratings to be great next year. Even if they hadn't been forced to cut cast, the show would've hit .5's next year (at least). With the cast losses, the ratings will probably go lower than that.

Anyway, it does make sense with the Idol news to turn Sunday's into reality TV night.

[profdanglais]

12 hours ago, Camera One said:

"Once" is perfect for Netflix.  

"I'm sure the next episode will be better, right?"  Click.  "Maybe next one?"  Click.  It's a true binge where you feel really crappy after.

I've been watching on Netflix for the past few seasons, because it's the only way the show can be seen in the UK. I find that it does affect my feelings about the show, because it's so easy to just fast forward through the crap bits. These last 2 episodes I only watched the EF stuff. 

[maryle]

Not the kiss of dead but it we can compare to show like macgiver this is a brand new show or the others that belong there. Once is a seven year old show trying to reboot itself by replaying its first season. I am also surprised by the focus on romance I thought it sounded  more soapy too!

[Souris]

Did Jamie let slip that A&E are looking at S7 as the last? She kind of gave contradictory info there -- "final, final season" but "it's just going to keep going."

[Inquirer]

She just means since this was supposed to be the "final season", then next one is supposed to be the "final, final season".  If renewed for S8, then that will be the "final, final, final season", and so on.

[KingOfHearts]

Just now, Inquirer said:

She just means since this was supposed to be the "final season", then next one is supposed to be the "final, final season".  If renewed for S8, then that will be the "final, final, final season", and so on.

and then we can have the Final Final Final Battle.

[Mitch]

16 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

and then we can have the Final Final Final Battle.

By the time that happens it will be reduced to Granny arm wrestling a nameless munchkin in the middle of main street.

[KingOfHearts]

29 minutes ago, Mitch said:

By the time that happens it will be reduced to Granny arm wrestling a nameless munchkin in the middle of main street.

So basically the Shattered Sight curse?

[Camera One]

Quote

"A large part of these jobs are managing failure, and we have made the tough calls and canceled shows that we would otherwise love to stay on the air. That’s the job. I canceled Last Man Standing for the same business and scheduling reasons that I canceled Dr. Ken, The Real O'Neals, The Catch and American Crime," ABC Entertainment president Channing Dungey told reporters Tuesday ahead of her upfront presentation to advertisers. "Last Man Standing was a challenging one for me because it was a steady performer in the ratings, but once we made the decision not to continue with comedies on Fridays, that was where we landed."

I was reading the above article about the surprise cancellation of "Last Man Standing".  

It's interesting that with all the talk in the last few months about ABC focusing on comedy, yet she ended up cancelling comedies to make way for "Once Upon a Time" and other dramas on Fridays.  I am starting to suspect A&E served a batch of memory tea when they visited ABC and used the Shears to cut the fates of the comedies.  I can even imagine them cackling away after freezing the ABC execs and letting loose some black fairy dust in the network offices.  The Evil Queen is probably running the network right now under a glamor spell.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Camera One

[sharky]

The crazy thing is there's supposedly a bunch of conservatives who are blaming the cancellation on the fact that Tim Allen supported Trump. Seriously.

And remember "all the talk" about ABC wanting to get more comedies came from one person who also had "insider information" that Once was going to get cancelled. There was never an actual story from a news organziation that ever mentioned ABC moving in that direction.

[TheGreenKnight]

I'm extra-glad about OUAT being renewed if it helped to rid the world of Last Man's Standing.

[Serena]

13 hours ago, sharky said:

The crazy thing is there's supposedly a bunch of conservatives who are blaming the cancellation on the fact that Tim Allen supported Trump. Seriously.

And remember "all the talk" about ABC wanting to get more comedies came from one person who also had "insider information" that Once was going to get cancelled. There was never an actual story from a news organziation that ever mentioned ABC moving in that direction.

Yeah, where is that person now? I wonder what her "sources" are saying now.

[tri4335]

I wouldn't say Tiger's sources were wrong because it appears without the Netflix deal OUAT, AOS and Inhuman would be out.  I think that it is clear that OUAT did not follow the "normal" process so I expect it wasn't discussed in the traditional terms - hence why the "inside" source wouldn't be hearing anything. I think we are seeing the new model being in effect and moving it to a night where the numbers won't matter as much and reduced ad revenue and licensing for the "live" viewing with monies being recouped from a streaming source.   

[TheGreenKnight]

Well, I (and several others) at the time did talk about Netflix being a motivating factor for OUAT getting renewed. So, not really surprising to me.

[Shanna Marie]

Adam tweeted that the premiere will be Oct. 6. I think I'll actually be in town and home that night (well, depending on flight schedules, as I'll be traveling that day), so yay.

[jjjmoss]

It is summer, but still, ABC drama development is bombing. Somewhere Between is their latest 0.3.

Non-Saturday 0.3s so far: American Crime x2 (Sun), Still Star Crossed x1 (Mon) moved to Saturday right afterwards, Somewhere Between x1 (Tues), You the Jury x1 (Fri) cancelled right afterwards.

Not sure if it's a sign that their new fall shows will likewise bomb hard enough to make this show look decent, or that ABC dramas are just continuing their freefall as a whole (minus Grey's Anatomy). 

Edited July 27, 2017 by jjjmoss

[sharky]

I hadn't even heard of Somewhere Between. I'm assuming it's getting bad ratings because it was bad and getting burned off in the summer like Still Star Crossed got burned off. But yeah, not good. In looking at some of the numbers, reruns were beating that mess. It gives an advantage to a 0.8 show like Once. 

[Serena]

You never know what's gonna break out. This is Us sounded dumb (still does, to me) and it's a monster hit (of course, a monster hit today would be a 'cancelled after 4 episodes' six years ago). The only upcoming ABC show that caught my eye and I'll watch for sure is The Mayor... but I'll probably try out a few of them.

[Free]

On ‎7‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 9:11 PM, jjjmoss said:

It is summer, but still, ABC drama development is bombing. Somewhere Between is their latest 0.3.

Non-Saturday 0.3s so far: American Crime x2 (Sun), Still Star Crossed x1 (Mon) moved to Saturday right afterwards, Somewhere Between x1 (Tues), You the Jury x1 (Fri) cancelled right afterwards.

Not sure if it's a sign that their new fall shows will likewise bomb hard enough to make this show look decent, or that ABC dramas are just continuing their freefall as a whole (minus Grey's Anatomy). 

They've been on a downward spiral for a while now, last season, each of their flop show did even worse than the last one.

Keeping declining low rated shows certainly won't help, it'll just sink even lower and all it does is take up space.

5 hours ago, Serena said:

You never know what's gonna break out. This is Us sounded dumb (still does, to me) and it's a monster hit (of course, a monster hit today would be a 'cancelled after 4 episodes' six years ago). The only upcoming ABC show that caught my eye and I'll watch for sure is The Mayor... but I'll probably try out a few of them.

TIU blew up all round in social media, it's had impressive numbers ever since the 1st trailer came out.

On ‎7‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 7:57 PM, sharky said:

I hadn't even heard of Somewhere Between. I'm assuming it's getting bad ratings because it was bad and getting burned off in the summer like Still Star Crossed got burned off. But yeah, not good. In looking at some of the numbers, reruns were beating that mess. It gives an advantage to a 0.8 show like Once. 

That's assuming OuaT retains those numbers while not declining any further and moving to a new night altogether with a full season order.

[sharky]

I think Once will likely go lower but still be OK. The move to Friday is going to lower ratings expectations so between that and the money from Netflix, I'm sure they'll get a full season in.

And yes, the fact that we're talking about fractionals is crazy. I listened to a podcast with Lea Thompson a few years ago. Caroline in the City got cancelled because of poor ratings -- they were pulling around a 14.0 in their final year.

[Free]

2 hours ago, sharky said:

I think Once will likely go lower but still be OK. The move to Friday is going to lower ratings expectations so between that and the money from Netflix, I'm sure they'll get a full season in.

And yes, the fact that we're talking about fractionals is crazy. I listened to a podcast with Lea Thompson a few years ago. Caroline in the City got cancelled because of poor ratings -- they were pulling around a 14.0 in their final year.

It already has a full season, it's just depending on where it ends up.

Most shows that move time slots do take a sizable hit, so I'm taking that into account, that and I'm taking natural y2y declines that the series has been going through.

http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/abc-tv-show-2016-2017-season-ratings/.

It took a 31.55% drop in the same slot last season.

It's already fractional, so that's not the problem, the problem is how low the show may sink given its trends and the fact that most of the cast is gone, moving time slots, etc.  All of those are factors of harsh declines.

[KAOS Agent]

I don't understand the idea that Friday night ratings expectations should be lowered for Once. Last Man Standing had 1.1 rating/6.6 million viewers in that time slot last season. Clearly there is a smaller audience for Friday night shows but it was much bigger for ABC on Fridays than Sundays.  Once didn't pull anywhere close to those viewership numbers and it sure as hell isn't going increase its ratings over that either. They averaged a 1.0 for 6A and .8 in 6B. Add in the fact that most of the cast is gone, a change in time slot, a steep decline in budget (both promotional and production) and a really lackluster back half of last season that put even many die hard fans off and Once's ratings will be interesting to say the least. 

Other bad signs for ratings include lowered interest/attendance at Once's panels at SDCC & D23, little interest in the show on social media and the increasing desperation on the part of the writers to make Henry/Lucy's mom the most epic ship ever - long before fans have even met the mother or have seen the chemistry between the actors. 

[Free]

31 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

I don't understand the idea that Friday night ratings expectations should be lowered for Once. Last Man Standing had 1.1 rating/6.6 million viewers in that time slot last season. Clearly there is a smaller audience for Friday night shows but it was much bigger for ABC on Fridays than Sundays.  Once didn't pull anywhere close to those viewership numbers and it sure as hell isn't going increase its ratings over that either. They averaged a 1.0 for 6A and .8 in 6B. Add in the fact that most of the cast is gone, a change in time slot, a steep decline in budget (both promotional and production) and a really lackluster back half of last season that put even many die hard fans off and Once's ratings will be interesting to say the least. 

Other bad signs for ratings include lowered interest/attendance at Once's panels at SDCC & D23, little interest in the show on social media and the increasing desperation on the part of the writers to make Henry/Lucy's mom the most epic ship ever - long before fans have even met the mother or have seen the chemistry between the actors. 

Exactly, there's so many factors working against it.

[Camera One]

At times like this, we need that four-letter word that comes to mind when we think of this show................................................... hope!

Edited July 30, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

At times like this, we need that four-letter word that comes to mind when we think of this show................................................... hope!

That's not the four-letter word that came to my mind. ;-p

[Camera One]

Adam is back on Twitter this morning.  So what's the usual plan for marketing?  They released a whole bunch of teasers and interviews this month.  The next round will be in the latter half of September?  Are they holding stuff back to release for marketing purposes and to garner better ratings at that point?  What's their usual strategy... is it a two-prong approach (once for Comic-con, once right before the premiere)?