S02.E06: The Twelfth of Never

[SuzieQ]

9 hours ago, chocolatine said:

To those of you seeing ridiculously expensive books on Amazon, those are out-of-print editions and the sellers - not Amazon - are jacking up the price since they only have a few copies to sell. Look for editions that are in print and sold directly by Amazon, those are usually reasonably priced.

That's correct.  I just paid $17 or so for the Stumbo book from Amazon and received today.  Thanks to all who recommended reading it!

[Starlight925]

Moved this post to "Podcast and Real People".

Edited July 5, 2020 by Sterling

[Elizzikra]

Quote

I guess I heard it wrong because I thought I heard the judge say she would only get the money if neither of them married again. 

I don't think it would automatically end if either of them remarried but it was subject to review at that time. A judge could reduce it if Betty remarried and had less need for Dan's support then. I suppose in theory if Dan remarried and could show that he could not afford to continue Betty's support, the judge could reduce his monthly obligation as well.

[Armchair Critic]

On 7/3/2020 at 9:49 AM, Persnickety1 said:

Good gawd almighty, I just found "Forsaking All Others" (a Broderick book I haven't yet read) on Amazon...for over $500.

It has a lot of the same information the Stumbo book has but I found the Stumbo book to be better because goes into more detail. I read it for free at Openlibrary.org (no I am not affiliated with them, just am cheap)

[Persnickety1]

5 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

It has a lot of the same information the Stumbo book has but I found the Stumbo book to be better because goes into more detail. I read it for free at Openlibrary.org (no I am not affiliated with them, just am cheap)

I actually signed up there hoping they would have a copy of FAO but no luck.  I might re-read the Stumbo book after this series ends, though.  I'm sure I've forgotten a lot of the information.  That Stumbo book was excellent.  

[Armchair Critic]

3 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

I actually signed up there hoping they would have a copy of FAO but no luck. 

It's there but somebody has it checked out, you can put yourself on the Waitlist

https://openlibrary.org/books/OL24733457M/Forsaking_all_others

*edited to add that it looks like there are actually 9 people waiting to read it. We weren't the only ones with the idea I guess. 

The way they have things categorized there sometimes you have to go through the back door to find something. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Armchair Critic

[Tabbygirl521]

I must say, Christian Slater’s smirk is perfection. You just want to slap his face clean off his head. 

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

I didn't watch last season because the more generic story didn't particularly interest me

Not quite off-topic but sort of: I am curious as to what you mean by "more generic story" regarding season 1.

[DanaK]

4 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

Not quite off-topic but sort of: I am curious as to what you mean by "more generic story" regarding season 1.

I suppose I meant usual conman/bad boy story and not huge headlines (and not a well known story to me) like the Broderick story. As I said before, I was pretty aware of this story when it happened. I had an instant interest when the season’s topic was announced

Back on topic, I didn’t realize Dan could continue to find a way to mess with the monthly alimony, which was probably an impetus to Betty getting a gun, but here too, retaining a lawyer would have helped protect her

Edited July 6, 2020 by DanaK

[TattleTeeny]

Oooh, I thought the whole Dirty John thing was anything but typical but thank you for clarifying!

[Persnickety1]

6 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

It's there but somebody has it checked out, you can put yourself on the Waitlist

https://openlibrary.org/books/OL24733457M/Forsaking_all_others

*edited to add that it looks like there are actually 9 people waiting to read it. We weren't the only ones with the idea I guess. 

The way they have things categorized there sometimes you have to go through the back door to find something. 

Thanks so much, @Armchair Critic.  I'm now officially on the waiting list (hopefully they're all fast readers 🙂 )

[KoKo]

On 7/2/2020 at 4:25 PM, Armchair Critic said:

On another thread I told people about openlibrary.org where you can read it for free. I see it's checked out, but you could be put on the waitlist.

https://openlibrary.org/works/OL17735327W/Until_the_twelfth_of_never

 

 

Thank you ~ I had no idea!!   &*^%  I love this group ~ I learn something everyday!!! 

[KoKo]

On 7/3/2020 at 8:49 AM, Persnickety1 said:

Good gawd almighty, I just found "Forsaking All Others" (a Broderick book I haven't yet read) on Amazon...for over $500.  

I guess places are really capitalizing on the Dirty John series.  

Seriously, $500 for a book.  I'm gobsmacked.  

Exactly!!  lol............I'm not paying $100 for it, much less $500 !!   So obviously, Forsaking All Others is another book besides Until the 12th of Never that I need to read too ?!

[Persnickety1]

On 7/3/2020 at 6:49 AM, Persnickety1 said:

Good gawd almighty, I just found "Forsaking All Others" (a Broderick book I haven't yet read) on Amazon...for over $500.  

I guess places are really capitalizing on the Dirty John series.  

Seriously, $500 for a book.  I'm gobsmacked.  

@KoKo...Talk about right place, right time...

I checked Amazon for this book again Friday and BINGO...a used book store had just listed a copy for sale at $19.99.

I snapped that baby up, figuring they would cancel the order on me and relist it at the "market price."

It shipped out Saturday at $19.99...woo hoo!!!

If you're looking to pick up one of the books and can't find it in free library, keep checking Amazon, Ebay, etc., periodically.  It really paid off for me.  

Edited July 13, 2020 by Persnickety1

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Exactly!!  lol............I'm not paying $100 for it, much less $500 !!   So obviously, Forsaking All Others is another book besides Until the 12th of Never that I need to read too ?!

If you are amenable to reading on an iPad/iPhone, you can buy them in the apple bookstore for regular prices.

[psychoticstate]

On 7/1/2020 at 12:59 PM, poeticlicensed said:

I want to know if the child molester accusation actually happened. 

It did.  That rumor was floated but clearly never seriously believed as there was no investigation.  

I used to work with someone who knew both Dan and Betty and what I was told was that Betty was a very-involved, fantastic mother who was always at the children's events while Dan was nowhere to be seen.  This person also told me they considered Dan a prick of the first order.  

 

On 7/1/2020 at 1:00 PM, Mrs. Hanson said:

I watched all the episodes in a row yesterday, and althought this is clearly slanted towards Betty and is anti-Dan, I  still found it interesting.  I followed this back in the day, followed both her trials, read every book and have seen, seemingly, every news program and mini-series on her, Dan and Linda.

My thoughts:  All were toxic.  Betty could not accept a divorce, and I agree with Dan that no money would have been enough for her.  I do have to say I LOVED the scene where Dan told her, "No, you are NOT gonna tell me who to hire and fire at MY company."  

Dan and Linda - engaging in an office romance while you are her boss and married:  both gross.  Betty:  Accept he does not want to be with you.  I have a hard time with her inability to accept six figures in alimony.  Yes, he was a big earner but dang!!   She should not have been surprised at not getting custody.  She rammed an SUV through his house.  That is seen as unstable, as it is!!!  

I have heard a rumor that Linda is not really buried with Dan, her family did not want her near where they felt the problems arose.  Just a rumor, though.

I am not on as much as an anti-Dan bandwagon as others, although he was a dick, but man.....dealing with Betty?  Never knowing what you are coming home to?  Chocolate cake smeared everywhere?  Breaking into your house and breaking stuff?

There was an interview with a lawyer who disputed Betty's theory that no lawyer would represent her.  His words were, and I paraphrase:  "Yes Dan was a shark but San Diego is a very large city with many sharks, she could have found someone."

I felt kinda bad for Betty at the hearing, she kept trying to get Dan to admit to an affair but Cali is a no fault state.  Sorry, Bets.  She was in waaaay over her head.

I've often said all three adults in this tragic story acted terribly and certainly not in the best interests of the children.  I'm floored that, with hindsight, not one person truly seemed to realize how mentally unbalanced Betty was.  

And yes, I have heard that Linda was not buried with Dan but elsewhere.  I believe she was from Salt Lake City so it's possible she was taken there.  

There was a dispute between the Kolkena and Broderick families following the murders.  Dan's family alleged that Linda died first so she therefore could not inherit anything and the Brodericks weren't responsible for any costs to due with her portion of the funeral and/or burial.  Pretty gross when you consider that she was his wife and he was making well over $100K a month.  

I had to laugh over Linda whining about how hard she had it and how difficult Betty was.  Here's a thought.  Don't fuck your married boss.  

Withholding the wedding china was mean.  Why would you even want it?  Of course we're also talking about a couple that got married 10 days after what would have been Betty and Dan's 20th anniversary and who were killed in a bed sleeping under a quilt that had been on Betty and Dan's marital bed.  

On 7/1/2020 at 1:54 PM, Haley17 said:

There was an interview with a lawyer who disputed Betty's theory that no lawyer would represent her.  His words were, and I paraphrase:  "Yes Dan was a shark but San Diego is a very large city with many sharks, she could have found someone."

 

Agreed. In normal life lawyers, judges and court staff get divorced. There is counsel to represent the opposing spouse, often gleefully. Perhaps things were different back when this case occurred, but the fact that Dan was an attorney, president of the bar, and wealthy would not be a hinderance to obtaining counsel. Being a very difficult client, as Betty was, coupled with not paying your legal fees would present far more problems to maintaining representation. 

As someone who works in the legal field and did live in San Diego, I can tell you that the legal community is very small and almost incestuous.  Everyone knows everyone.  I have seen cases that look like good cases for the plaintiff, pretty solid, and yet, nope!  We're not touching that one because of who the defendant is and/or is represented by.  You don't want to get on the bad side of certain firms and/or attorneys.  And if you're dealing with a sole practitioner, that attorney could be put under by the sheer volume of document production by the other, often larger, firm.  

Given that Dan was well known in San Diego, and president of the SD bar association, I don't doubt that he used that against Betty and she did have a hard time finding an attorney willing to go up against him.  

I also have zero doubt that he cooked the books so his law practice wouldn't look nearly as profitable as it was and he clearly lied about not knowing about Epstein credits.  Bullshit.  He was an attorney with a supposed God-given ability.  Of course he knew about Epstein credits.  He knew what he was doing when he encouraged Betty in her pursuit of a new house, knowing full well she would owe him that money down the road.  He was a devious bastard.  

I wish Betty had been able to just collect her $16k a month back in '89 -- and go back to court each time Dan's business increased and gotten more.  Don't remarry.  Live and be happy.  Let Linda have her "prize."  Dan was a cheater and allegedly Linda was too -- in real life, she and Dan briefly broke up and she dated someone else.  She eventually went back to Dan but he said later on that a few weeks before they married, Linda hooked up with him.   Cheaters going to cheat.  And as the old saying goes, once the wife is out of the picture and the side piece becomes the new girlfriend, a job position opens up.  

 

[Annber03]

4 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

There was a dispute between the Kolkena and Broderick families following the murders.  Dan's family alleged that Linda died first so she therefore could not inherit anything and the Brodericks weren't responsible for any costs to due with her portion of the funeral and/or burial.  Pretty gross when you consider that she was his wife and he was making well over $100K a month. 

Wow. 

That's really freaking shitty. 

[psychoticstate]

8 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Wow. 

That's really freaking shitty. 

Right?  Seems the dipshit apple doesn't fall far from the asshole tree.  

[Carolina Girl]

On 7/13/2020 at 7:04 AM, Persnickety1 said:

@KoKo...Talk about right place, right time...

I checked Amazon for this book again Friday and BINGO...a used book store had just listed a copy for sale at $19.99.

I snapped that baby up, figuring they would cancel the order on me and relist it at the "market price."

It shipped out Saturday at $19.99...woo hoo!!!

If you're looking to pick up one of the books and can't find it in free library, keep checking Amazon, Ebay, etc., periodically.  It really paid off for me.  

It's on Amazon again for - get this - $902.00!!!!

The kindle edition is $9.99.  Get the kindle app and save yourself hundreds.

[geauxaway]

2020 = the year of price gouging on toilet paper and Betty Broderick books.  🤦🏻‍♀️🤣🤷🏻‍♀️

[Elizzikra]

Quote

I want to know if the child molester accusation actually happened. 

Worth noting - there was never an accusation of child abuse/molestation. There was a rumor circulating that the reason the courtroom was closed was because Betty was a child molester, the logic being that molestation accusations were the only reason divorce hearings were ever closed. In fact, Dan wanted the hearing closed.

Quote

Given that Dan was well known in San Diego, and president of the SD bar association, I don't doubt that he used that against Betty and she did have a hard time finding an attorney willing to go up against him.

She had several excellent attorneys, all of whom stopped working with her for various combinations of non payment and Betty being impossible to manage. Plus Los Angeles isn't that far away and Betty could afford to fly an attorney down as needed, so I still don't buy that she couldn't possibly have solid legal representation. Even when she had it, she didn't do what they advised.

Quote

Dan's family alleged that Linda died first so she therefore could not inherit anything and the Brodericks weren't responsible for any costs to due with her portion of the funeral and/or burial.  Pretty gross when you consider that she was his wife and he was making well over $100K a month.  

That was super shitty. I think that Dan's brother Larry sounds like an ass in every story I've ever heard about him, including this one. It also sounds like he lost about as much money as Dan made and Dan bailed him out financially pretty often. 

[Persnickety1]

18 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Worth noting - there was never an accusation of child abuse/molestation. There was a rumor circulating that the reason the courtroom was closed was because Betty was a child molester, the logic being that molestation accusations were the only reason divorce hearings were ever closed. In fact, Dan wanted the hearing closed.

She had several excellent attorneys, all of whom stopped working with her for various combinations of non payment and Betty being impossible to manage. Plus Los Angeles isn't that far away and Betty could afford to fly an attorney down as needed, so I still don't buy that she couldn't possibly have solid legal representation. Even when she had it, she didn't do what they advised.

That was super shitty. I think that Dan's brother Larry sounds like an ass in every story I've ever heard about him, including this one. It also sounds like he lost about as much money as Dan made and Dan bailed him out financially pretty often. 

Just a random thought, but I wonder if it really was money lost for Larry's "bad investments"...or if Dan had already started shifting funds in preparation for the eventual divorce.  He was definitely planning his exit so maybe he just told Betty the money had been lost.

And those two Broderick men, Dan and Larry, certainly had a strong "prick gene" coursing through their veins.  I can't even imagine billing Linda's family for her funeral, especially when the family had ample money to absorb the cost.  But then we're talking about a guy who reportedly embezzled $600,000 from his nieces and nephews estate, so there's that.  

(I've received my copies of Telling On Myself and The 12th of Never, so I plan to relax with some wine and read a good portion of the weekend...hope everyone has a wonderful weekend!)

Edited July 18, 2020 by Persnickety1

[Ms Blue Jay]

Never mind, misunderstood something.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[oliviabenson]

The only people I feel sorry for are the kids. Dan also wrote one kid out of the will completely. 
 

I did not know Linda is not buried with Dan. 

[Paloma]

On 7/2/2020 at 10:45 AM, poeticlicensed said:

Putting on my amateur psychologist hat, I would say that Dan had a bit of narsissitic personality (grandiosity, need for admiration, lack of empathy) and Betty had a classic case of Histrionic Personality Disorder (excessive attention seeking and emotionality) and a touch of AntiSocial Personality Dosorder (impulsivity, lying). She definitely falls into Cluster B of disorders, which are characterized by dramatic, overly emotional thinking and behavior.

Putting on my own amateur psychologist hat (with the extra "qualification" of having edited the DSM and books about psychiatric diagnoses over several decades), I agree that Dan had Narcissistic Personality Disorder and I can see the characteristics that made you diagnose Histrionic with a touch of Antisocial for Betty--and don't forget Narcissistic, also part of Cluster B. But to diagnose a personality disorder, the onset must trace back to adolescence or early adulthood and "the personality traits that define these disorders must also be distinguished from characteristics that emerge in response to specific situational stressors or more transient mental states." (I'm quoting from the latest version of DSM, which is sitting on my bookshelf.) Based on what we see in this series (I haven't read the book or seen other sources so there may be more info that would change my opinion), Betty seems to have functioned well in early adulthood, despite coping with severe stressors such as economic struggles, multiple pregnancies and miscarriages, and death of a baby. It wasn't until Dan started gaslighting her about the affair and then left her without warning that she started showing these dysfunctional symptoms (again, going by what the series showed).

My amateur diagnosis would be Adjustment Disorder With Mixed Disturbance of Emotions and Conduct. The disturbed emotions include depression and anxiety, and the disturbed conduct includes violation of the rights of others and of societal norms and rules (such as vandalism). The emotional and behavioral symptoms of adjustment disorders develop as a short-term response to an identifiable stressor such as the end of a romantic relationship. But if the stressor persists, as in a contested divorce with a cruel and gaslighting spouse, the adjustment disorder can persist also.