S05.E11: Journeycake

[Athena]

Quote

Roger and Brianna need to decide if they want to stay or return to the future; Jamie discovers a new power that started from an unrest in the backcountry.

Reminder: This is the No Book Talk topic. No discussion of the books is allowed including saying "in the books..." Posts may be removed without warning.

[theschnauzers]

This episode was written by Diana Galbadon, her second of the series.

[ferjy]

I have to say, I haven’t enjoyed an Outlander episode this much in a long time. (Except for the grisly start.)

Ha, Jamie eating the sandwich with a fork. 😄That was a nice touch. 

I didn’t think Roger, Bree and Jemmy would go back this season. It all seemed so quick. But I was glad they showed them going through the stones and that we saw Ian witness it. I was afraid he’d stay by the horses. There’s nothing like “seeing is believing”. 

Claire is abducted again. 🙄 I’m more interested in the cliffhanger with Roger, Bree and Jemmy. Where the heck did they end up?? Did they travel around in circles and end up back in the past? If not, I wonder what they’re seeing. Maybe they travelled too far into the future. I had visions of them seeing apes on horseback. 😁

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The only reason I didn't want Brianna and Roger to leave was because Ian running around with Jemmy was the most adorable thing ever seen on this show in five seasons!

Bonus: we got to see the kitty again!

This was one of the better episodes this season. Maybe it's due to the fact hat we're finally rid of both the Bonnet and Regulator plots and we could focus more on the family? I loved that Brianna and Roger leaving meant that we got to see them interact with so many of the other characters (Ian, Fergus & Marsali, Lord John). Marsali telling Brianna how much she would miss her was sweet. As boring as I find Brianna, I liked that Marsali had another female friend.

Ha, Jamie eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich with a fork and knife was a great visual.

Damn it, I thought we were finally rid of Brianna and Roger. Am I going to have to spend half of S6 watching them try to get back to the right time?

Ugh, and Claire got kidnapped AGAIN? We just had Brianna kidnapped last week. Can't we lay off the Women in Peril plots?

[DoctorAtomic]

12 hours ago, ferjy said:

Maybe they travelled too far into the future.

I'm confused that the stones did that. So far, it's all been you return to the point in time when you departed + time elapsed.

Though, now that I think of it, Jemmy was born in the 'past', so it would stand to reason he wouldn't be able to go to 1970 but back. In the first season, Claire learned about another guy that traveled from Jamie's time, but it was clear he went to the 1500s and returned back to 1740. 

Or just timey-whimey. The time travel stuff is what drew me into the show in the first place. Good point on having two time traveling parents though. Maybe that makes you go either way, and with being just a little kid, he probably can't concentrate or something. 

I am surprised that they want to leave before the fire though. I thought the whole point was to come back and help. 

I did like Ian being all wtf is going on now?

Good job on the actor playing Roger. His horror at seeing the poor burned girl was subtle and strong. 

I like how with reinventing future tech Claire has decided to invent peanut butter. 

I guess the burned house at the start indicates that their fire is soon to come. 

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

This was one of the better episodes this season. Maybe it's due to the fact hat we're finally rid of both the Bonnet and Regulator plots and we could focus more on the family?

I didn't mind the regulator plot because it painted a good picture leading up to the revolution. We, viewers, know it's coming, and Jamie has been smart enough to listen to Claire about future events, but I think the ending with Jamie throwing down the jacket was important for him to truly understand what's coming up and the scale of it. 

But Bonnet whatever. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[DoctorAtomic]

I didn't even think Ulysses would face consequences. The lawyer was totally murdering her. 

"The older he gets, the more he looks like his father."
Jamie - very worried face. 

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[BitterApple]

Noooooooooooooo!!!!!!! Not a cliffhanger with Roger and Brianna!!! Where do they end up?! Obviously not in the 1970s, judging by their reaction. So are they even further back than where they started? The show's never given hard rules for time travel, but that would be an interesting twist if you could only travel back from the year you were born and not forward. 

I usually think Sophie is the weak link in the cast, but I thought she was fantastic in this episode. I cried through pretty much every good-bye scene, especially the ones with Lizzie, Ian and Lord John.

Jaime delicately eating the peanut butter sandwich with knife and fork was hysterical, and I thought the dinner was a clever and touching way to tie the two time periods together.

Given how many times Claire has been kidnapped in the past, I guess it stands to reason she was due for an abduction on American soil. The Browns are such a miserable, shitty lot. 

I feel like a lot happened in this episode, but the one thing I'm waiting for is to hear Ian's story about his time with the Mohawk. Hopefully that gets covered in the finale.

 

[DoctorAtomic]

27 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

The show's never given hard rules for time travel, but that would be an interesting twist if you could only travel back from the year you were born and not forward. 

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but that's like the only rule we've actually seen. The more I think about it, I'm not quite grasping why no one raised this question. *Especially* since Claire was the only person who heard the story in Scotland at the lord's house in S1. 

It's kind of a cheap out tbh to make characters dense because plot. Last time, Claire wasn't personally armed when Bonnet showed up on the beach. Same thing with "Dr. Rawlings". I find it hard Claire would be so careless. I mean, I like the show. I'd stop watching if I didn't, but it can be hacky with cutting the corners to move the plot. 

Where are the American stones? I thought they were in New York near the Mohawk?

Wait is this the last episode? I thought it was 12?

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

Given how many times Claire has been kidnapped in the past, I guess it stands to reason she was due for an abduction on American soil. The Browns are such a miserable, shitty lot. 

I was kind of rolling my eyes in terms of a plot device. I'm not calling bs on this one. Neither Jamie or Claire could have known they would do that. Though I find it odd that none of them, Ian included, had more motivation to look into who was setting the fires. 

Why can't they just go back through the Stones? It doesn't seem that much of a problem to me beyond 'wait, what the hell just happened? let's go back through.'

Edited May 3, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[theschnauzers]

I’m pleased that Diana wrote this episode. She has that deft touch with family interactions. And the ones with Jemmy, Lizzie and Ian were heartwarming. And entrusting Ian with the land grant given to Roger will help Ian feel more attached to Fraser’s Ridge. It’s interesting the Browns didn’t say one word about Mohawk Ian in this episode.

Edited May 4, 2020 by theschnauzers
Typos courtesy of Apple.

[Scarlett45]

On 5/3/2020 at 1:40 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

I didn't even think Ulysses would face consequences. The lawyer was totally murdering her. 

"The older he gets, the more he looks like his father."
Jamie - very worried face. 

 

Ulysses is a black man. There’s no way in hell he wouldn’t die for killing that lawyer, it wouldn’t matter if 10 ppl said it was in defense of Jocasta. 
 

I’m glad he’s heading to Britain. Yes he’s been manumitted but what’s a piece of paper? Anyone could kidnap him and sell him into slavery again. Also he’s a man with a certain skill set, he’s got to survive and he’s not inconspicuous. He’s been a valet his entire life. He’s got was many “roughing it” skills as Roger.  He could be a gentleman’s butler in Britain and make quite a living as an “exotic” one. Also there was a black community in London then. 

On 5/3/2020 at 2:06 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

Where are the American stones? I thought they were in New York near the Mohawk?

They are on the way. Claire said it would take them about two weeks to get there. 

[DoctorAtomic]

No, I know. I just didn't think of it. I'm surprised Claire didn't decide she's a lawyer and go to court to get him off. 

[BitterApple]

I always tend to obsess over details. Assuming Brianna and Roger end up in the right time, how do they simply walk back into their lives? Does Bree still own the Boston house? If so, who's been keeping it up? Would their bank accounts be active? How are they going to get from the Stones to Boston with no money, credit cards or ID's? Did Brianna's roommate wonder what happened to her or report her missing? I'd love for the show to give some information on the particulars. 

 

 

[Cdh20]

I love, love, love cliffhangers! That is all for now!

[Scarlett45]

7 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I always tend to obsess over details. Assuming Brianna and Roger end up in the right time, how do they simply walk back into their lives? Does Bree still own the Boston house? If so, who's been keeping it up? Would their bank accounts be active? How are they going to get from the Stones to Boston with no money, credit cards or ID's? Did Brianna's roommate wonder what happened to her or report her missing? I'd love for the show to give some information on the particulars. 

 

 

I thought about all this too. When Claire went back through the stones she put all the bank accounts and the house in Bree’s name. Yes I think it’s likely someone reported both of them missing, but without a body or a reasonable accident I don’t think they’ve been gone long enough to be declared dead. (It’s at most been 4yrs, likely 3.5) When Claire came back in the 1940s she did have a husband who still had a life set up for her and they just chalked it her up her being “crazy”. They are going to have to forge a birth certificate for Jem, and a marriage license for themselves, but I can assume once they got back to the present they could call someone collect from a pay phone (like Claire’s co worker) and find a way to get back into their lives. 

[domina89]

What a fabulous episode!  Well done, Diana!

It did leave me with a huge sense of foreboding when it comes to poor Claire, though. 😨

I'm again reminded that it is a shame they didn't chem test Sophie Skelton and David Berry prior to assigning them their roles.  Their chemistry is tangible and much greater than anything she has with Richard Rankin.  It's not his fault, of course- these things are unpredicatable.

John Bell continues to impress!  Can't wait to find out more about Ian's sad past.

[Cdh20]

Some episode thoughts: I am sad that I was not sad during all the goodbyes! I don’t think the stones took Roger, Bree, &Jem anywhere- they ended up right when they left?

I can’t wait to hear what happened with Ian, & hope he finds some happiness soon.

 I did not find Jamie & Claire smelling each other & describing it sexy. I love dirty Jamie the most, but thinking about him actually smelling like manure is a turn off🤮. What did make my husband & I lol was Claire putting on her on perfume & then finding Jamie asleep, I could totally relate to that! 

Jamie eating  peanut butter & jelly with a knife & fork was delightful! And I loved him seeing sperm- did Claire say she got it from him depositing it in her? Hahaha.

We knew Claire being Dr Rawlings would come back to bite her!

On 5/1/2020 at 6:32 PM, theschnauzers said:

This episode was written by Diana Galbadon, her second of the series.

Diana does a good job with dialogue & humour!

[BitterApple]

I'm completely torn on where the Mackenzies end up. It would be crazy if destiny demanded they stay in 1772, however I think the emotional impact of this episode would be ruined if they gave us all these sad good-byes, only for Brianna to reappear on Fraser's Ridge a month later. However, both Roger and Brianna clearly saw something that confused them, so I don't know. 

47 minutes ago, domina89 said:

 

I'm again reminded that it is a shame they didn't chem test Sophie Skelton and David Berry prior to assigning them their roles.  Their chemistry is tangible and much greater than anything she has with Richard Rankin.  It's not his fault, of course- these things are unpredicatable.

I've noticed that as well. I also think Sophie has great chemistry with John Bell. The scenes Rik and Sophie have with other cast members seem to flow much more naturally than the ones they have together.

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, Cdh20 said:

I don’t think the stones took Roger, Bree, &Jem anywhere- they ended up right when they left?

That would actually be hilarious. 'Hey, we're back!' I would think Ian would still be there if they went through and popped up again. I suppose that doesn't mean there isn't one in like Oregon or something. That might not be half bad. Make friends with the native Americans, avoid the war. It still looked like a wooded area. I don't think they exited in the cave in Jamaica. 

If they did go back to 1572 though, I'm not sure how they're going to over come the language barrier, or native Americans not to pleased to see white people popping up out of thin air. 

I don't see why they just can't go back through. 

[kwnyc]

Frankly if Bree never turned up again, and Marsali became the ingenue, I'd be just as happy. The actor has some nice charisma and a good relationship with Claire.

I know that won't happen, but I can dream, can't I?

And it WAS a beautiful episode. Very rich in detail and WHY we love the characters.

Though the children on this show are pretty awful (save young Fergus!) When Germaine was thrust under the bench and told to stay there by his mother, you'd think he'd be old enough to RUN out of the house and tell his father and Jamie what had happened. The kids who can actually talk all sound like they learned their lines phonetically.

It looked like Jemmy was freelancing a bit on dialogue there with the stone, and Sophie just went along with it. Young Willie was also pretty awful last season. 

And David Berry just keeps getting more handsome. 

[Hanahope]

Ok I thought about it.  I think Bree and Roger landed in 1969 (remember that it’s always been 3 years short of 200 and they left in 1772), and in upstate New York?  They found the Woodstock festival.  Both would be shocked to see a huge gathering of nearly naked or strangely clothed people. 

that would also allow them to “blend in” with their odd clothes and get a ride somewhere no questions asked.  Maybe a bit of cash too.  And in 1969, laws were more lax on birth certificates, ID and such.

Agreed that Claire should have been more careful around the Browns.  Keep those drawers closed.  

 

[DoctorAtomic]

That would be awesome if they landed at Woodstock.

[Sew Sumi]

Won't happen. Claire left Scotland in 1746 and ended up in 1948. The difference seems to be 202 years, not 197.

[ferjy]

On 5/4/2020 at 7:29 PM, Hanahope said:

Agreed that Claire should have been more careful around the Browns.  Keep those drawers closed.  

Not one much for discretion, is she? Why not a sign with a big arrow pointing to the kit, "Dr. Rawlings practices here, nudge nudge wink wink." 

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by ferjy

[ferjy]

3 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Won't happen. Claire left Scotland in 1746 and ended up in 1948. The difference seems to be 202 years, not 197.

But that was Claire. Nothing is certain with travelling through the stones. Claire has said several times she doesn't doesn't know much about it herself. Also, didn't Claire say at one point that she didn't have stones travelling through but that she had Frank waiting at one end, and Jamie at the other. Maybe this lot of three had no one in their own time to "draw" them. So maybe they are back where they started in the past because that's where everyone important to them is. I sure hope we find out next episode and don't have to wait until next season.

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by ferjy

[DoctorAtomic]

I mean, yes, it's Claire. 

Seriously though, I thought she found the Rawlings emblem and then got the idea to write. 

[ferjy]

13 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

What did make my husband & I lol was Claire putting on her on perfume & then finding Jamie asleep, I could totally relate to that! 

😆 Every woman's woe at some point.

Edited May 5, 2020 by ferjy

[ferjy]

On 5/4/2020 at 11:45 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

I mean, yes, it's Claire. 

Seriously though, I thought she found the Rawlings emblem and then got the idea to write. 

lol I should have said that was Claire's scenario. So it doesn't mean other travellers will follow the same rule.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by ferjy

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't recall exactly. 

[DoctorAtomic]

As much as I'm interested in how the stones work, I think the answer is just going to be plot. 

They've been fairly consistent in going through is about a 200 jump 'back' from your origin point, so it's reasonable that the baby made them go back to 1572. Except if it's not.

 

[ferjy]

2 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I think the answer is just going to be plot. 

I think you're right, they do that too often. I can't imagine what storyline they'd think up having them that far back in the past. Unless they hightail it out of there right away back through the stones! Seems staying in the past where they were seems more likely. They may have just seen that they're still in the same place/time. Boring as that would be. 1572 certainly would be more interesting. I'm not sure they have the skill to write something like that though. Unless Diana writes another one. 😃

 

[BitterApple]

43 minutes ago, ferjy said:

 I sure hope we find out next episode and don't have to wait until next season.

 

We'll find out next episode. The details for the finale listing include, "Roger and Brianna's journey takes a strange turn." I'm thinking it's going to be one of three possibilities:

a) the time travel failed and they're still in 1772

b) the time travel worked but put them in the wrong era (likely further back)

c) the time travel worked and the date is right, but they end up in a different location 

Aside from those, I can't think of any other plausible scenarios.

Edited May 5, 2020 by BitterApple

[SassAndSnacks]

49 minutes ago, ferjy said:

Why does she even have a name plate announcing Dr. Rawlings in the drawer? Is she afraid she might forget she is Dr. Rawlings? 😕

Dr. Rawlings was the original owner of the medical kit. Jamie bought it for her secondhand. 

[ferjy]

1 minute ago, SassAndSnacks said:

Dr. Rawlings was the original owner of the medical kit. Jamie bought it for her secondhand. 

Ah, so that was the drawer in the medical kit, not in a desk. I didn't catch that but started thinking that might be what it was. Thanks.

 

[theschnauzers]

When Claire returned to her own time at Culloden, she went forward 202 years.

[Eureka]

11 hours ago, ferjy said:

lol I should have said that was Claire's scenario. So it doesn't mean other travellers will follow the same rule.

Re the name emblem, it seems that it was screwed into the drawer, so she must have done that? If I wanted to keep that identity a secret, I would hide it away in a box, not display it in a drawer that anyone can open. Maybe I didn't see it right, I'll have to go back and check.

 

I thought it was a name plate on her medical/tinctures box, which was in a drawer, wasn't it? I thought the drawer was partly open and that's how Brown saw it.

[DoctorAtomic]

Yes, that's my recollection. I mentioned it on Sunday when I was watching the episode in that the show resorts to Claire being careless to move the plot far too much. Claire having a mouth on her has been consistent from day 1, and I can get that gets her into trouble, but I have a hard time rolling with Claire mentioning to Jamie about her sekrit identity and leaving out in an area that gets a lot of traffic. I can get maybe she left it on the dining room table, and someone came in unexpectedly.

Did they need that to happen for her to be abducted even? Brown was already running around burning things, and he's been pissed off at Claire for a while. Jamie refusing to join the gang seems like motivation enough. Same thing with Bonnet - she could have had the gun on her and it still misfired and you end up in the same situation than having her just leave it out of reach when she's a woman alone on the beach. 

[TidalCreek]

The fact that we're even wondering how the timey-wimey thing works speaks to how poorly DG spelled out the rules of the universe in the beginning (i.e., how the time travel works, who can go, who can't, when/where/how) -- which is really the first rule of universe-building.

That said, I think originally she was just writing an historical romance and somehow got caught up in a time-travel situation without considering how it would play out down the road. (It's possible she didn't know there would be a book 2, much less book 9+.) And then that book sold like hotcakes, followed by book 2, etc., etc., rinse, repeat. And apparently she didn't tackle the time-travel issue, being consumed with cranking out fodder for the readers. Not that I condemn her for it -- huzzah! more power to her -- I'm just saying there's a lot of literary retrofitting that would need to be done to figure out the specifics for those of us who really pay attention and Need To Know.

 

[ihartcoffee]

16 hours ago, BitterApple said:

We'll find out next episode. The details for the finale listing include, "Roger and Brianna's journey takes a strange turn." I'm thinking it's going to be one of three possibilities:

a) the time travel failed and they're still in 1772

b) the time travel worked but put them in the wrong era (likely further back)

c) the time travel worked and the date is right, but they end up in a different location 

Aside from those, I can't think of any other plausible scenarios.

I rewatched the part where they touch the stones.  Where they end up looks exactly like where they left.  There were 2 piles of stacked stones in the scene that didn't change.  I'm not sure if that means anything, just something I noticed.  Jemmy almost looks like he's waving at someone.  I'm so curious where they end up! 

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, TidalCreek said:

I'm just saying there's a lot of literary retrofitting that would need to be done to figure out the specifics for those of us who really pay attention and Need To Know.

I'm not a book reader, but I was interested enough because the guy from Galactica was putting out a show about time travel to Scotland. I quickly understood what the show was really about. Those first two seasons are objectively good though.

I've actually been fine about it up until now, and I'm not sure I care too much to call bs on the time travel. The fact that Claire's bloodline is special is fine. You need a stone to go through and you go back 200 years and then forward 200 + whatever time you stayed. That's really fine if that's all it is. And the people who can travel can 'hear' the stones. 

Now with the baby, they may have painted themselves into a corner and will just resolve it because plot. The logical outcome is 1572 but why the baby would override Bree and Roger I doubt has a thought out explanation. 

 

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, ihartcoffee said:

I rewatched the part where they touch the stones.  Where they end up looks exactly like where they left.  There were 2 piles of stacked stones in the scene that didn't change.  

Good catch! I noticed the general topography appeared to be the same, but didn't pay attention to the rocks. 

Did Roger ever say specifically which state the stones were in? I don't know how fast you can travel by wagon, but two weeks from Fraser's Ridge would maybe put them somewhere in Virginia? 

 

 

[Hanahope]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Good catch! I noticed the general topography appeared to be the same, but didn't pay attention to the rocks. 

Did Roger ever say specifically which state the stones were in? I don't know how fast you can travel by wagon, but two weeks from Fraser's Ridge would maybe put them somewhere in Virginia? 

 

 

Pretty sure those are the same stones Roger found with the Mohawk in the New York area.  They can ride on horse a lot further than Virginia in 2 weeks from NC.

they had to see something odd from their expression.  What would they see in 1572 or so?  More native Americans?  That wouldn’t be odd.  There was no suggestion of a settlement in 1772, so not likely to be one in 1572.

I don’t think going back in the past would cause such an expression, that’s why I think it must be the future.  It’s just a question of how far in the future.   
 

[BitterApple]

15 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

Pretty sure those are the same stones Roger found with the Mohawk in the New York area.  They can ride on horse a lot further than Virginia in 2 weeks from NC.

 

Huh. When Claire and Jamie went to New York to find Roger it took them the entirety of Bree's pregnancy plus two additional months to make it there and back. I guess it's one of those things I'll have to handwave and not think too hard about. 

[Hanahope]

3 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Huh. When Claire and Jamie went to New York to find Roger it took them the entirety of Bree's pregnancy plus two additional months to make it there and back. I guess it's one of those things I'll have to handwave and not think too hard about. 

It wasn’t the entire pregnancy.  Bree was already several months pregnant by the time Roger got back from New York (going up on Bonnet’s boat).  She was showing quite a bit when Jocasta was trying to marry her off.

And it took Claire and Jamie longer to find Roger because they didn’t know where he was other than a general direction.  Ian probably knew the area and travel ways better after living with the Mohawk, so they could travel faster.  
 

But yeah no doubt they fudged the time some one way or the other.

 

[Ziggy]

8 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Huh. When Claire and Jamie went to New York to find Roger it took them the entirety of Bree's pregnancy plus two additional months to make it there and back. I guess it's one of those things I'll have to handwave and not think too hard about. 

Well, Bree was about 5 months pregnant when they left, and they didn't know where they were going.  They had to first find the Native Americans that Ian sold Roger to and ask them what they did with Roger after that.  It wasn't until then that they had an idea of which direction to go in.  Also, Roger saw the stones on his way to the Mohawk.  But we don't exactly know where he was at the time, just that he was somewhere on the way to New York.

[sas616]

On 5/4/2020 at 10:58 AM, BitterApple said:

I'm completely torn on where the Mackenzies end up. It would be crazy if destiny demanded they stay in 1772, however I think the emotional impact of this episode would be ruined if they gave us all these sad good-byes, only for Brianna to reappear on Fraser's Ridge a month later. However, both Roger and Brianna clearly saw something that confused them, so I don't know. 

I've noticed that as well. I also think Sophie has great chemistry with John Bell. The scenes Rik and Sophie have with other cast members seem to flow much more naturally than the ones they have together.

I don't necessarily agree that Rik and Sophie don't have chemistry onscreen.   But they definitely have it offscreen.  But Rik has chemistry with just about everyone.

[DoctorAtomic]

19 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

But yeah no doubt they fudged the time some one way or the other.

 

They traveled via the Game of Thrones path. 

[ferjy]

10 hours ago, Eureka said:

I thought it was a name plate on her medical/tinctures box, which was in a drawer, wasn't it? I thought the drawer was partly open and that's how Brown saw it.

Yes, SassAndSnacks already reminded me of the box.

Edited May 6, 2020 by ferjy

[ferjy]

1 hour ago, sas616 said:

I don't necessarily agree that Rik and Sophie don't have chemistry onscreen.   But they definitely have it offscreen.  But Rik has chemistry with just about everyone.

Isn't that the kicker. Offscreen they're adorable together. When Sophie isn't acting. 😄

 

[ferjy]

Why hasn't anybody leaked the next episode yet?! 😆