S06.E16: So Long and Goodnight

[Trini]

After Black Hole hires Rag Doll (guest star Troy James) to kill Joe, Singh suggests he go into Witness Protection but Joe refuses to stop investigating Carver (guest star Eric Nenninger). While investigating Carver with Cisco, Ralph runs into Sue (guest star Natalie Dreyfuss). Iris becomes suspicious of Eva (guest star Efrat Dor).

Alexandra La Roche directed the episode written by Kristen Kim & Thomas Pound.

Airdate: 4/21/2020

[shantown]

On 3/18/2020 at 12:41 AM, RedVitC said:

There was something off about Singh this episode. 

On 3/18/2020 at 9:30 AM, shantown said:

I thought for sure he was going to end up being the mole! The way the actor played it, especially when he told Joe he believed him and wanted to be the one to handle the transfer of the mirror ball... it was so shady!

WE CALLED IT!!!

Are Cisco and Kamillah still dating? Why was he all flirty with Sue Dearborn?

 

[BeautifulFlower]

No Caitlin. YAYYYYY

Moving on, I thought this episode was really good.

Joe being reckless refusing to give up despite the danger shows us exactly where Iris gets it from. I love it.

With that said, Joe was dumb tonight. Why would he show Carver he was recorded? That is literally how you can get yourself killed.

I'm glad Joe is going into witness protection, but why not Cecile and Jenna? It makes no sense for them to go about their lives as if Black Hole won't get to them.

Cecile's scream was funny because it sounded terrible. Dani did some terrible acting there.

What is going on with Eva and Carver? What is Carver's plan? Why won't Eva just tell Iris the truth? It sounds like she's a good person who wants to stop her husband, so let Iris in on it. Eva said Carver let her rot in there. I want to know what she meant by it.  Did he put her in there? Did he know a way to get her out, but kept her in there on purpose? ANSWERS!!!!!

So we know Sue is actually a good guy. Her parents are being black mailed by Carver and she wants to help them. Like Eva, why didn't Sue tell Ralph this? He could've helped her from the get go. She still stole a diamond which could land her in jail.

Iris was scratching her hand like Eva does. It's obvious a sign for something. Is she going crazy like Eva?

Mirror Iris is a ruthless b word. She knew exactly where to hit Barry hard emotionally to get him to drain his speed. First, she brought up his parents being dead. Then, she sealed it by kicking him out. She is so manipulative and ruthless. She is smart though.

 

[UNOSEZ]

22 minutes ago, shantown said:

WE CALLED IT!!!

Are Cisco and Kamillah still dating? Why was he all flirty with Sue Dearborn?

 

I missed the last epi cuz my DVR is secretly a Russian spy and wants to make me miserable... So I thought maybe MirrorMilah broke it off with Cisco... Cuz he was being very extra with Sue.. Who thank Beebo finally cooled off a bit in the bank scene with Ralph.. Cuz she was still "On" inside the server room... 

The show really had me scared for a second... I read somewhere that this epi would change some stuff so I don't thought we were gonna lose Cecile... Who may not always rate high with some.. But who I've always really liked... Once she switched places with Joe and I saw how much time was left in the epi.. I was pretty confident he'd make it thru... 

Again Siri gets to spit some blue flame truth fire at Barry about his decision making process and its consequences... Unfortunately she dropped the parents line and kicked him out and he knew... That ain't my woman.. No matter how mad she was.. Even if he deserved it.. She'd never ever say that... 

But both Sue and Eva seem kinda silly I mean they both seem really unwilling to allow ppl( capable, trustworthy ppl)  to help.. I mean eva knows all about team flash.. And she doesn't seem like a supervillian... So why not just let them help... Same for Sue 

[bettername2come]

I can barely remember the last episode, so I was shocked by Singh being the mole. I was all like "Oh he's getting involved and caring about Joe, how sweet." I wonder if it's him or Mirror Singh. 

I got very annoyed when Cecile told Joe about the bomb and he said "How do you know?" I was mid-yell about her being a mindreader when she said she'd been told to tell him. 

Siri was a biiiitch. Ugh. God, Barry, except for the part about you making decisions without consulting others (which was fair, but not as applied to this situation), it was just so mean and unlike her. Real Iris should be super offended when she gets back about how long Barry fell for her shit.

I get concerned every time Cisco and Joe leave. I'm always scared they won't come back. Didn't miss Caitlin tho. 

Ralph looked stupidly attractive in that suit and long, black coat. 

Ragdoll must be a really cheap character to bring back. I feel like he gets used more often than anyone who's not a "main" villain. Also, why is he not Ralph's arch-nemesis? There's a missed opportunity there.  

[Lady Calypso]

14 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

I can barely remember the last episode, so I was shocked by Singh being the mole. I was all like "Oh he's getting involved and caring about Joe, how sweet." I wonder if it's him or Mirror Singh. 

It's gotta be Mirror Singh because of how he was talking to Eva in the mirror. Yes, I know Carver was talking to Eva as well but I presume it's because he's been in on the plot while Singh obviously is a good guy and wouldn't turn on the city unless he was forced to. Plus, I remember suspecting Siri of being the mole because she was already snooping around on Joe's laptop. 

I do know that Singh was acting weird in his last couple of episodes. I can't remember how since it's been weeks since the last episode aired, but I just remember noting that he was not acting right. I don't know if I ever suspected him to be Mirror Singh, though.

This episode had a lot of plot holes. For example, Joe would 100% be dead from that car crash. Sorry show, but 120 mph is basically a death sentence; it's why very few characters, outside of car action films, can jump out of a car and survive. 

Also, Barry apparently taking 45 whole seconds to run Cecile across town, for some strange reason, instead of running her around the block since that bomb was obviously not expanding very far outside of the building.

Not to mention the stupidity in the Joe/Carver scene where both told each other their secret plans. C'mon, show! Don't make your character idiots for plot!

And yeah, why wouldn't Cecile/Jenna go with Joe? They'd be safer with him. At the very least, since we never see Jenna anyway, she could have gone with Joe! And I guess this is the last we see of Jesse L Martin for a while.

Ralph/Sue was decent. I thought Sue actually had more chemistry with Cisco in that one scene, but maybe because it didn't feel forced like Ralph/Sue kind of do for me. That's not to say I hate Sue; I actually like that they gave her actual layers. Now that their little backdoor pilot episode (or whatever the hell they were doing in her first episode) is out of the way, she started feeling like a legit character here.

Siri is awful. I have to hope that Barry catches on to this because she was being way too cruel for him to truly believe this is Iris, especially after her line about losing both parents.

[Primal Slayer]

I enjoyed it for the most part but I am SO. SO. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO tired of the "you're in danger so you need to leave town for a few weeks" that this universe loves to do. I feel like its happened so many times, especially in The Flash. 

[catrice2]

Is Jessie o.k.? 

[UNOSEZ]

3 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Is Jessie o.k.? 

Dunno.. Looked a bit gaunt

[thuganomics85]

The Flash is back!  For, well, however many episodes they filmed before the shutdowns happen (I think I read somewhere that they got to episode nineteen, at least.)

Ah, another classic "Lets watch Jesse L. Martin be awesome enough to almost save the silly writing" story, because while he was on point 100% of the time, the writing really did make Joe look dumb and reckless.  Maybe if I was more invested in the Carver stuff, I would understand why Joe was was becoming impulsive and desperate to take him down, but I just felt like he was being short-sighted instead.  Refusing any form of protection.  Barging into Carver's house.  Recording him, but not actually saving it to the cloud or anything.  Come on, Joe!  Although, he did manage to survive jumping out of a car going 120 miles per hour, so he clearly has some powers after-all!  Still, again, Martin sold it and I did get a bit emotional with his temporary exit.  I wonder how long he'll be gone?

Definitely was suspicious over Singh's odd behavior, but at least he's actually a Mirror version and is working with Eva.  Hopefully the real Singh is okay...

Wish we got more of the Ralph/Cisco team, because those two were cracking me up.  But the return of Sue was decent, and I'm curious about her and Ralph working together (hopefully?)  Hartley Sawyer is still great and I continue to be amazed over how much I like Ralph now.  

Rag Doll is usually an effective villain, but I wasn't all that interested this time, for some reason.

Oh, yeah, I forgot all about the Nash/Allegra drama.  Yawn.

Okay, Barry has to know something is up now, right?  Siri completely overplayed her hand with the whole "Iris is upset that Barry didn't use his speed to let her say good-bye to Joe" act.  Even if the real Iris got upset over that, she wouldn't have gone straight to kicking him out of the apartment, without raising some huge red flags.  I was fine with it at first, but she is really acting out of character now, and I would find it preposterous if Barry continues being daft.  

Spoiler

Next week's previews give me hope that he figures it out, hopefully, unless it's somehow a misdirect.

 

[quarks]

1. Nice of the CW to give all of its advertisers time to create coronavirus ads. 

2. I know this show has pretty much settled into its A + B and occasional C plot format here, but this was one case where it didn't really work for me - largely because I couldn't see Ralph and Cisco taking off to do their own thing at this point without at least chatting with Barry and Iris about this - or that Barry wouldn't let Ralph and Cisco know that someone had just tried to kill Joe. 

That said, I liked the Ralph and Cisco teamup; I ended up more into that story than the rest of the episode. Partly because --

3. I completely forgot about whatever the Wells/Allegra thing is, and, well, maybe now wasn't the best time to focus on it, Wells/Allegra.

4. Finally, Iris calls Barry out on all of Barry's crap, yay! Damn it, it's Fake Iris, Nay! Not to mention that of all of the things we could (ok, I could) call Barry out on, "Put Joe in witness protection after two recent attempts on his life" really wasn't one of them - and I'm pretty sure Real Iris would have felt the same way. Not to mention that, hey, Fake Iris knew that Joe was in danger and had just told Barry to save him - and she doesn't answer her phone when Barry calls? So, yeah, Fake Iris, you're not on particularly strong grounds here - and this is me, Barry's chief critic, saying that.

[rmontro]

21 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I'm glad Joe is going into witness protection, but why not Cecile and Jenna? It makes no sense for them to go about their lives as if Black Hole won't get to them.

I came here to comment on specifically this.  I agree it made absolutely no sense.  Seems like bad writing.  Are they writing Joe off the show for awhile, or is this just an excuse for "Iris" to kick Barry out of the house?

Edited April 22, 2020 by rmontro

[Lantern7]

I'm thinking Flash is the current weakest Arrowverse show, in the sense that I'm not really invested. I mean, it's still cool, but there's not as much momentum as past seasons, where we had the one asshole ruining lives. Carver is overt sinister, Eva is covert. We've gotten cameos from canon Big Bads (Reverse-Flash, Grodd), but like I said . . . I'm not really invested.

Rag Doll's return is welcome, in the sense that he's really fucking creepy, and his canon counterpart was created by one my my fave writers (Gail Simone). Sneaking under a car and cutting the brakes while Joe was driving? Inspired.

Looks like Eva is winning, in the sense that Team Flash has lost Joe, and Siri has stepped up heaping pain upon Barry's dumb ass. Last shot was unique, with Barry slowly walking away from the apartment, not zipping away because of Speed Impotence. BTW, how's the Building of Speed Force v2.0 coming along?

[adora721]

No Caitlin or Killer Frost is an unexpected and awesome gift!

I'm kinda glad Joe is gone, but without killing him off.  I also loved that he rememberd to ask Barry to tell Iris he loved her. Joe often acts as if Barry is his highest priority.

I was hoping David Singh wasn't secretly working for Carver, but I'm glad he's working for Eva. I don't know why, but I still kinda trust Eva. 

I wonder if Iris' itch is an indication that she too will start having the ability to control the Mirrorverse.

Where is Eva storing the real Kamilla and Singh? Seems like Eva is building an army of mirror people to take down Carver. 

Is this the first time Cisco and Ralph have teamed up? I'm still not warming up to Sue, and I'm not sure why.

I don't worry that WestAllen will divorce or anything like that. I wish MirrorIris would tell Barry and Team Flash some more truths about themselves, but she went too far by bringing up Barry's parents. Everything else she said was based in reality though, which is why it stings.

Overall, a better episode than expected.

[Trini]

I had suspected that Eva had other mirror-clones out there, so glad that's confirmed. But NO, not Singh! So where's real Singh? Or Kamilla?? How did Eva get Singh?? So many questions!

We found out a little more about Eva and Carver, but wasn't Iris supposed to "be suspicious" of Eva, too? Did that get cut?? It's good that she was able to find another way to escape the mirror-verse by herself, but they really should be showing us more of her and the mirror-verse.

Ragdoll continues to be the creepiest. Love it! But I didn't like that his mother is dead, apparently. I had wanted to see that character again.

They should pair up Ralph and Cisco more often! I agree that at least Cisco could have connected to the Joe/Barry plot. However I appreciate that they're not using more people than they need in each subplot.

14 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Is Jessie o.k.? 

Well, I wasn't worried about him until now. Had no idea he'd be offscreen yet again. I hope it's not more health issues.

But agreed that they made Joe act more reckless than usual to sell this plot.

So, I want to count game night at the West home with Barry and Iris, and Cisco and Kamilla as a double date, but two of those people are impostors.  😂 😔

The real Iris would never use his parents' death against Barry, no matter how mad she was. And he knows that. GET HER, BARRY!

Edited April 22, 2020 by Trini

[ottoDbusdriver]

10 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

With that said, Joe was dumb tonight. Why would he show Carver he was recorded? That is literally how you can get yourself killed.

Someone should tell the writers that's not how an EMP works -- it doesn't just delete files, it fries the entire device.  So when Joe's phone displayed "voice memo deleted" I laughed and laughed.

9 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It's gotta be Mirror Singh because of how he was talking to Eva in the mirror. Yes, I know Carver was talking to Eva as well but I presume it's because he's been in on the plot while Singh obviously is a good guy and wouldn't turn on the city unless he was forced to. Plus, I remember suspecting Siri of being the mole because she was already snooping around on Joe's laptop. 

I do know that Singh was acting weird in his last couple of episodes. I can't remember how since it's been weeks since the last episode aired, but I just remember noting that he was not acting right. I don't know if I ever suspected him to be Mirror Singh, though.

........

Also, Barry apparently taking 45 whole seconds to run Cecile across town, for some strange reason, instead of running her around the block since that bomb was obviously not expanding very far outside of the building.

Shouldn't Singh be wandering around in the mirrorverse somewhere -- does Eva have him stashed somewhere ?  And where was Kamilla or mirror-Kamilla-- she didn't show up in the regular universe or the mirrorverse.  Was she vacationing in mirror-Cabo or spending the day at mirror-Disneyland ?

As for Barry running Cecile half way across town to keep her safe from the bomb -- he only really needed to run her outside the building, maybe to the next block.  So it's Barry's own fault that he ran out of speedforce trying to rescue Joe.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Sigh.

The only satisfaction I got from this episode is while Fake!Iris kicked Barry out, there was this look on his face (in addition to the heart break), that last look, his eyes told me, this isn't Iris.

And thanks to be to the TV Gods that

next week he knows it! says it! And will be on the search to find the real Iris

.

That's not HOW WITSEC works, you dumbasses.

[mxc90]

What an insult to Joe! After the brakes were cut the assassin had extra time to change the music from Jazz to Heavy Metal. 

Once Joe made the right turn at 100 mph, he should have crashed/turned into a Sloppy Joe. The man must have been a NASCAR driver in previous life.

A decent assistant would open all gifts/inspect and never let the boss have to do it himself and be surprised. The guy should be fired.

3 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

And where was Kamilla or mirror-Kamilla-- she didn't show up in the regular universe or the mirrorverse. 

She is in the special one way mirror where the show put people they don't want to pay for this episode. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by mxc90

[adora721]

5 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

And where was Kamilla or mirror-Kamilla-- she didn't show up in the regular universe or the mirrorverse. 

Mirror Kamilla was in the first scene when the West-Allens were all playing charades at Joe's house.

[Trini]

15 hours ago, bettername2come said:

Ragdoll must be a really cheap character to bring back. I feel like he gets used more often than anyone who's not a "main" villain. Also, why is he not Ralph's arch-nemesis? There's a missed opportunity there.  

This is a good idea! I suspect they'd have to put aside a good amount of the VFX budget to make that showdown happen, though.

 

6 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

And where was Kamilla or mirror-Kamilla-- she didn't show up in the regular universe or the mirrorverse.

Mirror-Kamilla was in the game night scene at the West house.

[ottoDbusdriver]

3 hours ago, Trini said:

Mirror-Kamilla was in the game night scene at the West house.

I must have blinked and missed her.

[phoenics]

I enjoyed this episode - it felt like there was finally going to be movement on the Iris front and finally the ep closed with that!  Whew finally.

I did (sorry) laugh when Siri shut the door in poor Barry's face - he was just so shocked... but Grant does hurt/confused SO well... there was this look of abject pain on his face then... 

Next week he finally figures it out!! I'm SO relieved!  What's even better is he's got a whole board filled with Iris stuff in the promo and the glass board has "sneaking out at night" on it - so he's really trying to hunt down what is going on with Siri and then somehow figures out she's not Iris... I hope GG brings the pain and angst when he realizes Iris has been missing for over a month now.

[tennisgurl]

Finally, Siri went too far, I think Barry has finally caught on! No way would Iris, no matter how pissed off she was, throw parents parents deaths in his face, or compare her dad having to go into witness protection for a bit to the traumatic and horrible deaths of his parents. It looked like Barry was putting two and two together in that last scene, I think he finally got there! 

I thought this was a pretty good episode, it didnt have too many subplots with too many characters everywhere, had some good emotional beats whole also moving the plot along, and Ragdoll is a cool villain I always like seeing. Though, as others have pointed out, why haven't we seen him and Ralph ducking it out yet?! Ragdoll seems like an obvious arch nemesis/evil counterpart for him to go against. 

You can really see where Iris and Barry got their tendencies to run into danger without much of a backup plan from! Come on Joe, have that confession broadcasting live, or to the cloud! Have Cisco explain how to do it, its not that hard! Count me in on being weirded out that Joe is going into witness protection but not Cecile and the baby, but I do get why Joe is going, its a good call. Lord knows if Joe gets hurt again because Barry's speed is on the fritz, Barry is going to have even MORE of a guilt complex than he already has, and he is already going to beat himself up like crazy for taking so long to know that Iris wasnt Iris. 

I liked seeing Cisco and Ralph team up (we dont get that very much and they work well together) and Sue was a lot better this week. I am still not fully on board with her yet, but she did at least seem like a real person this week and not a trope, and showed some more decency and vulnerability, so thats a step in the right direction at least. And she was right about Ralph working that suite, he looked great in that outfit! I also liked when Sue commented on what a good guy Ralph was, and Ralph said that he was a real asshole just a few years ago, and that he had to work to be better. The guy really has come a long way. 

Cookies for everyone who correctly predicted that something was up with Singh! At least he isnt working with Carver, but is actually a Mirror Singh! Now where is real Singh?! He better be ok damn it! So Eva and Carver have different plans, but...what are their plans? I still think that Eva is sketchy and up to something bad, but whatever she is up to, its something that Carver isnt doing. 

 

[Trini]

A few BTS photos of Ragdoll/ Troy James:

 

[phoenics]

Bringing this over from the ep 15 thread:

On 3/20/2020 at 10:13 AM, Kimmel77 said:

Maybe she can walk out but cannot survive in our world for long. I’m guessing she is the mirror world conduit and it won’t let her go without sucking her back in.

Considering we saw Iris scratching her hands and then being able to read the screens, etc.. like Eva can... what if this is true and Eva can't leave unless someone real takes her place?

 

[Trini]

Someone on twitter who follows filming in Vancouver had posted photos of this billboard months ago, and now it finally showed up in the show:

 

[Trini]

Nitpick - they actually changed Ragdoll's powers in this one; he could always contort and squeeze his body, but then they actually showed him stretching his arms similar to the way Elongated Man does, but that isn't really how his powers work. At least not the way that they showed it before.

Also Eva - when she's pretending in front of Iris - shouldn't know anything about the Flash since she's supposed to have been trapped since the PA explosion.

[RedVitC]

On 4/22/2020 at 3:03 AM, shantown said:

On 3/18/2020 at 5:41 AM, RedVitC said:

There was something off about Singh this episode. 

On 3/18/2020 at 2:30 PM, shantown said:

I thought for sure he was going to end up being the mole! The way the actor played it, especially when he told Joe he believed him and wanted to be the one to handle the transfer of the mirror ball... it was so shady!

WE CALLED IT!!!

~😊 ~

I hope that real Singh is ok ( the succes is assured line is I think there to make clear that it's a mirror version)

Trying to stop Carver in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, but keeping people trapped in the mirror while you let mirror versions live their life (and in some cases actively try to destroy those lives) is pretty not good

I know people don't like the standing around in star labs situation, but I've come to the conclusion that I miss team flash working as a team on missions. I get what they're trying to do with separate storylines and giving everyone something to do, but they could do different things while working towards the same goal. Because now usually no matter how dire the situation of the A plot is there are some characters off doing other things. They don't really work as a full team anymore on anything. Maybe every few episodes we can have something that everyone works on?

I was hoping to really like Sue and Ralph's journey...and they definitely have potential, but I'm not fully convinced yet. Maybe it's more that I don't have any  'I really want them together!' feels yet. I thought the heart to heart scene was a step in the right direction (even if I kept thinking it was going to be another double cross). Still, I think it's a good thing the show is trying a different type of couple dynamic. People have mentioned the batman and catwoman dynamic when talking about them and that seems to fit, at least for now.

I know it's not to be taken seriously and the scene was funny, but I didn't really like how they wrote the Cisco and Sue interaction. For Cisco, It felt too much for someone with a girlfriend. It was nice to see a Cisco and Ralph team up, though

The fight between Barry and Siri was brutal, though since it's not real Iris it's easier to brush off than the one from last year.

Hopefully there is more real Iris in the next episode 

Altogether, a pretty OK episode (even if I really miss westallen)

 

[Trini]

On 4/28/2020 at 7:39 PM, RedVitC said:

... Still, I think it's a good thing the show is trying a different type of couple dynamic. People have mentioned the batman and catwoman dynamic when talking about them and that seems to fit, at least for now.

Oh, they're definitely modelling her after Catwoman. But Ralph's not Batman, though? But yeah, I'm also not fully onboard with them yet.