Belgravia - General Discussion

[Brn2bwild]

7 hours ago, Kayz Opinion said:

It probably has to do with connections and budget.  Without both one can't hire the top actors/directors ... or get your stuff on Masterpiece Theatre.  I think the sets and costumes were fine, but "Belgravia" would have been much better on a different network.

I find that a little baffling.  Julian Fellowes has enough connections to get anyone he wants to be actors in his various series.  Don't know why he chose EPIX as the channel for Belgravia, but he probably could have gotten it onto PBS/Masterpiece Theatre if he had chosen to do so.

[humbleopinion]

I will suppose that EPIX threw more money at JulianF since he double, triple dips wearing many hats...and skimped on the rest of the production...so while it looked good it didn't have the lushness and patina of a MPT production...

EPIX was more eager and wanted to make a big splash with original content....

It's always the money.

[Quilt Fairy]

4 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

It's always the money.

Eh, there's a surfeit of fine British actors at every price point.   I'm more for blaming the writer and the director.   How many scenes have we had where some major event or exposition happened off-stage and we're dropped in right after it happened?  Wouldn't you have liked to have seen Lord Brockenhurst and Charles being told that he is the heir?  I would, and yet the only scene we get is the dinner that comes after that bombshell.  And I'm totally perplexed as to why Charles, the lynchpin around which this whole drama turns, beyond being mostly passive for the entire show, is now almost entirely absent from the final hour.

[Kayz Opinion]

3 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Eh, there's a surfeit of fine British actors at every price point.

I'd agree if I didn't see the same eleven British actors working on all the movies and series I watch on TV.

Eleven-Hyperbole

[buttersister]

Quote

 it's just a big wink at the audience that "this street is/will be something special."

Written by Julian Fellowes. 

Not sure I'll come back for the next season, Belgravia: Pope Town. Charles is a bore, albeit one who's eye candy and a "business genius" we have to take their word for--and the rebellious Mrs., who is ahead of her time. So do they move to India and give us some passionate, well-meaning fish out of water action? Oy.

[raven]

And they all lived happliy ever after (except John and his mother).  The End.

Talk about a show that needed more episodes.  How did Saint Pope feel about suddenly being a member of a prominent, rich family?  Was he ever curious about his mother?  How did he feel about his grandfather keeping the secret for years while supporting him?  Is Susan really happy (no) or just making the best of a bad situation (yes)?    How long before she's tearing her hair out from boredom at Granville? 

The women were definitely more interesting than the men (sorry Philip Glenister, still love ya).  I really liked the scene with Anne and Susan when they get the moment to be honest about Oliver not being the baby's father.  Actually the scene with Oliver and Susan was kind of nice when she talks to him about being a father but we don't get a sense of how she feels about being a mother. 

I would be curious to see how Susan is getting on with life and what else John steals from his mother.   Scenes with Anne and the Countess are always good.

It was a fun diversion, just needed to be fleshed out more.

[lucindabelle]

I was on the zoom for six hours today and this was the perfect antidote. I can’t believe I watch the whole thing in one sitting. Even signed up for Epix so I could keep watching after the two free episodes.

 

I love Tamsin Grieg. To me she’s like Emma Thompson, I just like her whenever she’s on screen. And I liked the other grandma too. I liked watching them become allies.

 

Sure as in Downton Abbey, some of the attitudes were ridiculously modern. One Groner was with Charles pope said that one day India would have self rule. Believe me nobody in the cart and Trad looked forward to that.

 

Sure as in Downton Abbey, some of the attitudes were ridiculously modern. One Groner was when Charles pope said that one day India would have self rule. Believe me nobody in the cotton trade look forward to that.

 

Still I liked where it went. Having Oliver hesitate and then we approach him self was really terrific. And I felt for Susan. All she really wanted was to be a mother.

 

I Haven’t read the book, and I didn’t think it felt too rushed. I was glad the letters and the tension over them was dispensed with quickly.

 

I will say, I called it from the very first episode that that marriage which was probably valid or the second or whenever we first heard about it.

[Guest]

For being the central romance, Maria and the world's blandest Manic Pixie Dream Guy Charles got a pretty underwhelming, uninspired wrap up. That post-wedding kiss was the first time they'd kissed, no? Although I did miss a few episodes. Talk about zero chemistry. I've seen more passionate kissing in Disney movies. It was very awkward in the flow of that dialogue and almost felt improvised by Ella Purnell.

Oliver had a great redemption arc and his actor gave the strongest performance this episode, especially confessing to Susan after the attempted murder. Susan has a lot of nerve to claim her infidelity was supposedly her trying to get pregnant. "Darling, I cheated on you for YOU! To do you a favor!" lol. He's a more sympathetic, ambiguous semi-villain than say, Thomas, who coasted on the Tortured Gay thing but was still always an unrepentant asshole.

Overall, this whole thing just feels like JF trying to milk more money out of Downton Abbey by setting essentially the same storylines in the previous era. And I'm sorry but Charles is certainly no Tom.

[Kayz Opinion]

1 hour ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

That post-wedding kiss was the first time they'd kissed, no? Although I did miss a few episodes. Talk about zero chemistry. I've seen more passionate kissing in Disney movies.

• Snow White was the first Disney movie: 1947.
• Belgravia is set 100yrs earlier...1841.
• I assume there was very little in the way of PDA in the 19th Century.
• It was probably shocking for the wedding guests to see even THAT kiss.
•  

[TV Diva Queen]

Anyone see Julian Fellows adaptation of Dr Thorne?  Watched it last night on Prime. 4 parts 45 minutes episodes and Julian opens and closes each episode with a fireside chat. Loved it. 

[Door County Cherry]

2 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

Anyone see Julian Fellows adaptation of Dr Thorne?  Watched it last night on Prime. 4 parts 45 minutes episodes and Julian opens and closes each episode with a fireside chat. Loved it. 

I liked it but mainly because I like the cast.

I actually liked Belgravia for the most part too---(unpopular opinion but maybe more than Downton which I gave up on after like season 3). I felt it moved nicely.  

The drawbacks really were Charles Pope, who is good enough for eye candy, and Maria, who I liked well enough but wasn't all that interested in.  Susan was interesting regardless of what (or who) she was doing.  And I even came around a bit on Oliver. 

[Brn2bwild]

On 5/26/2020 at 1:32 PM, Door County Cherry said:

I liked it but mainly because I like the cast.

I actually liked Belgravia for the most part too---(unpopular opinion but maybe more than Downton which I gave up on after like season 3). I felt it moved nicely.  

The drawbacks really were Charles Pope, who is good enough for eye candy, and Maria, who I liked well enough but wasn't all that interested in.  Susan was interesting regardless of what (or who) she was doing.  And I even came around a bit on Oliver. 

It's not an unpopular opinion to me.  I found myself liking many of the characters more than most of the Downtown characters, save Isabel, Violet, and Edith.  I liked that the servants weren't super loyal and devoted, and the one that was only acted that way because she's playing the long game.  I don't know if they acted that way only because they knew that the Trenchards were not aristocrats, so didn't have that natural deference for their "betters," as many of the Downton servants did.

[marinite]

So I waited til the season was over to watch this during my free Epix run. For the most part I liked it. What bothers me partially is that Lady Brockenhurst never apologized to Mrs. Trenchard for calling the daughter a slut, after she found out the truth (unless I missed it).

Also, I wish they had used a different composer: that long violin stroke is pure Downton Abbey.

Loved all the costumes, sets, acting. 

If there is going to be a season two, I will definitely check it out.

 

[RedHawk]

On 7/9/2020 at 1:43 PM, marinite said:

So I waited til the season was over to watch this during my free Epix run. For the most part I liked it. What bothers me partially is that Lady Brockenhurst never apologized to Mrs. Trenchard for calling the daughter a slut, after she found out the truth (unless I missed it).

Also, I wish they had used a different composer: that long violin stroke is pure Downton Abbey.

Loved all the costumes, sets, acting. 

If there is going to be a season two, I will definitely check it out.

 

Yes, Lady Brockenhurst should have apologized to Mrs. Trenchard because Mrs. Trenchard sincerely apologized to her for believing that Lord Bellasis had deceived Sophia. I guess it’s that thing of “the nobility can never be wrong.” 

I’m re-watching the series and very much enjoying the sets and costumes. An 8-episode arc would definitely have allowed for a less-rushed ending but I still liked the story and characters. It would be nice to have a season two and see the more of them.

[Camera One]

Not having separate episode threads made it hard to read other people's thoughts in this thread without possibly encountering spoilers.

I watched this series over the last 3 days.  Since it felt like one complete story, I watched a few episodes at a time.  

Overall, I thought it was engaging.  I had just finished watching "Bridgerton" so it was interesting to me that both started off in the 1810s.  Though "Belgravia" was a lot less pretty and visually much more drab and unimpressive.  Even compared to "Downton Abbey", it lacked the visual appeal and the grandness.  The musical score didn't stand out at all in this series.

The story itself also felt less light, and there was a lot less humor.  I don't think that was a problem per se, but it made watching it a little more depressing and oppressive.  Right from the first episode, Mrs. Trenchard was played in such an understated fashion that she seemed like a wet blanket.  But even by the end of the first episode, I was beginning to admire her for her quiet strength and level-headedness.  

The first few episodes did a good job peeling back the layers, revealing the backstory, and gradually introducing more characters.  

Someone in a previous post said there were too many villains, and I agreed with this, particularly in the middle of the season (Episode 3-5).  There were more characters to dislike than like, and some, like John and his father and Susan, felt a tad cartoonish to me.  It was amusing that the servants were generally unpleasant people in this one compared to "Downton Abbey".

In the middling episodes, I also felt that the main characters like Mrs. Trenchard were too passive, while the "bad guys" were gathering information and constantly gaining the upper hand.  This type of story tends to become a bit frustrating to watch.  You would think Mr. Trenchard would at least have tried to track down the pastor who officiated the wedding to find out more, while she was pregnant.  

But still, I liked the series.  However, the final episode felt rushed and a bit unsatisfying.  I thought the reveal of Charles' identity would be a big climax, but they cut into the dinner scene just as he found out, and everyone else pretty much knew by that point, so the effect was very diluted.   

There also wasn't very much payoff for Mrs. Trenchard for doing the right thing.  The lady who played Lady Brockenhurst was great and she had really good chemistry with Mrs. Trenchard, but she was ready to throw the Trenchards under a bus until the end, so an apology and an acknowledgement of Sophia would have added to a more complete ending.  

As others said, the lack of a POV for Charles Pope also diminished the impact, since we hardly knew him.  A few more episodes might have allowed him to form more of a bond with his various grandparents.  Mr. Brockenhurst was also MIA for much of this.

There seemed to be a little bit too much love for the villains.  Why was the last scene given to John in Paris?  Stealing from his mother was as despicable as the rest of the stuff he did.  The redemption for Oliver worked, sort of, I guess, though not totally since he was a one-dimensional entitled baby up until the last episode.  The redemption of Susan was a bit more iffy and needed a bit more time.

I was thinking that even if Mrs. Trenchard hadn't told Lady Brockenhurst the truth, it would have come out in the same timeline, with a whole lot less drama.  Ultimately, Sophia's maid would have come to London to give Mrs. Trenchard the marriage certificate and those letters, with the name of the pastor, so now they would have easier means to find out more about the validity of the marriage.  The only difference is that Charles might never have met Maria, but he would have taken his rightful place with his grandparents at around the same time, and it would have ended well.

I like the characters enough to see a second season, though with the major secrets out, I'm not sure if I want to see a new set of manufactured drama.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Camera One

[chitowngirl]

There WILL be a new season-Belgravia-The Next Chapter! 😊

[norcalgal]

12 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

There WILL be a new season-Belgravia-The Next Chapter! 😊

Wow!  I agree with Tamsin and Julian Fellowes that this series was complete. Kind of surprised there’s going to be a second season, and from the article, the only character who returns is someone who wasn’t even technically featured in the first season.  Ah well, since I don’t have a MGM plus sub, I can’t watch anyway.

[meep.meep]

Oh God no.

I am watching another show on MGM+, about Kim Philby, and it's a huge mess despite starring Guy Pierce and Damian Lewis.  They may not be ready for prime time.

[blackwing]

On 4/8/2023 at 7:40 PM, chitowngirl said:

There WILL be a new season-Belgravia-The Next Chapter! 😊

Wow, this is welcome news.  But without any source material, isn't this just going to devolve into Julian Fellowes writing typical Julian Fellowes fare?  He already currently has "The Gilded Age" set in 1880s New York, now he will have this one set in 1870s London.

I don't think I get MGM+, I watched the first season on DVD, so I guess I'll be waiting for the DVD for this season.

[Camera One]

3 hours ago, blackwing said:

But without any source material, isn't this just going to devolve into Julian Fellowes writing typical Julian Fellowes fare? 

It is interesting because "Belgravia" was based on a book Julian Fellowes wrote himself.  The story this time is written by someone else, though he is serving as one of the executive producers.

Quote

Developed and written by Helen Edmundson (Dalgliesh, Mary Magdalene), it will tell the love story of Frederick Trenchard, who has grown up as the third Lord Glanville, and his new love interest, Clara Dunn, who is a newcomer to London society.

What made the original series interesting were the specific characters, not the "universe".  I'm not sure the worldbuilding was interesting enough to revisit with the next generation.

[blackwing]

21 minutes ago, Camera One said:

It is interesting because "Belgravia" was based on a book Julian Fellowes wrote himself.  The story this time is written by someone else, though he is serving as one of the executive producers.

What made the original series interesting were the specific characters, not the "universe".  I'm not sure the worldbuilding was interesting enough to revisit with the next generation.

I tend to agree.  I read the book some years ago and I really enjoyed it.  So it was great seeing the characters brought to life.

The more I think about it, with this "Next Chapter", I don't see any reason why I would be attached to any particular character since these are all brand new characters, like I said, the same storylines could be written for "Gilded Age" as they could for "Belgravia Next Chapter" and it probably wouldn't make any difference.

I do think it would have been much more interesting to continue the story of the characters from the book.  This new series will probably just be the same as any other period drama, in fact it will probably have the same typical tropes that seem common for shows set in this time period:

Earnest but penniless young man trying to make his way into the world.  A titled gentleman who becomes his adversary.  A scandal from years ago that nobody but the aged Dowager Countess knows about but would ruin Main Guy if it got out.  An unscrupulous businessman who finds out the secret and is going to use it for his own gain.  A forbidden romance between Main Guy and Adversary's sister.  A maid or servant that doesn't know his/her place.  Someone involved in some illegal or illicit business dealings.  Old ladies throwing lavish parties.  A clergyman who isn't as honest as he should be.  Etc.

Seems like it would have the same formula as Belgravia all over again.

Edited April 10, 2023 by blackwing

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 4/10/2023 at 6:35 PM, blackwing said:

Earnest but penniless young man trying to make his way into the world.  A titled gentleman who becomes his adversary.  A forbidden romance between Main Guy and Adversary's sister. 

Well, those didn't happen at least.