S10.E09: The L Word

[Elizzikra]

1 minute ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I hope I’m not required to give an accounting of my bathing habits to be here. 

Well, not required... but strongly encouraged... 🙂

[sometimesjennifer]

47 minutes ago, TwirlyGirly said:

I'm sorry for leaving out the second part of your post. That was a TH, right? That TH could have been filmed in reference to something else entirely. We know production fiddles around with where they place the THs...

You're SO right! In which case I'd be even more annoyed if Meka's actually done something severe to engender Michael's mistrust and they didn't show us (or if they show us later and then play a totally different reaction from him).

[Hangin Out]

11 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I hope I’m not required to give an accounting of my bathing habits to be here. 

That’s when we know this show is BORING !

[Ohwell]

11 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I hope I’m not required to give an accounting of my bathing habits to be here. 

I feel ya.  I'm not saying a thing about mine either. 

[sasha206]

11 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Women of a certain age often start to sweat in their sleep. Don’t ask how I know...

LOL, YES!  I'm 52 and I go between super hot, super cold.  

[sasha206]

12 hours ago, sometimesjennifer said:

I agree that this seems like the most likely scenario, and if so I applaud Michael for standing by his own morals and not allowing money to tempt him into compromising his values. However, I then wonder why in the world he would reveal the situation to her on camera if he was reluctant to fully explore the topic. Why not privately discuss it with her so he could be candid about his misgivings? He then went on to say:

 

I'll have to watch the scene again; it just seems like he was much more evasive than he needed to be and it's awfully strange to sign a letter, tell the therapist that you are now going to make double, then be very evasive when you take another job.  I would not be surprised if next episoe, we hear that the new job didn't pan out too.

If it had to do with the private school (was it a private school?) has policies that are homophobic, seems like he could say it and come out the hero for not taking the job

 

[MajorNelson]

I just imagine Michael didn't want to talk about the specifics or his career on camera, but apparently, if there were a couple of takes on this, he couldn't just say it or he was told he couldn't break the fourth wall.  They gave up early on with Brandon and let him a few times.

Edited March 2, 2020 by MajorNelson

[MajorNelson]

1 hour ago, sasha206 said:

If it had to do with the private school (was it a private school?) has policies that are homophobic, seems like he could say it and come out the hero for not taking the job

 

But it would be stupid.  He's in the DC area, and within a 100 mile radius there are a ton of Catholics, some places even a majority of the population.  Regardless, he was at least willing to work at the place, which might suggest he didn't have a problem with their beliefs.  Or, as speculated, he did get cold feet when he had to sign something about supporting the catechism a certain way.

[LuvMyShows]

1 hour ago, MajorNelson said:

I just imagine Michael didn't want to talk about the specifics or his career on camera, but apparently, if there were a couple of takes on this, he couldn't just say it or he was told he couldn't break the fourth wall.  

 

All of this conversation about what he should/could or shouldn't/couldn't say still gives him a pass for clearly not having discussed this with Meka BEFORE he made the decision.  I don't care how newlywed they are, that is not the kind of decision for him to make unilaterally. Even if he knew in his mind that he had already made his decision, he still could have sought out Meka's input privately, but it definitely doesn't appear that happened. 

20 hours ago, becauseIsaidso said:

 I have never understood how people can really WASH their hair everyday without destroying all the natural oils away. 

Oh my...when I was an adolescent and young adult, I absolutely had to wash my hair every single day, it would get soooo oily.  But as I've gotten older, I don't need to wash it every day.

[LuvMyShows]

21 hours ago, sasha206 said:

I find it far more unusual for someone to be 26 and claim they've never been in love.

I absolutely believe it.  I have a relative who is very rational, analytical, etc.  He had a not-unusual number of serious relationships (longer than a year), and he was happy with them, but they just weren't love for him.  Then he met someone at age 29 and fell in love for the first time, and got married.  The women he had been dating were what would be considered good catches and appropriate for him, and they were all very nice people, but for whatever reason did not spark love for him.  Our family trusted that he knew his heart, and didn't pressure him about how he should be falling in love with one of these women.  I could see Derek being like that, given that I think Derek's profession is engineer.

[sasha206]

1 hour ago, LuvMyShows said:

I absolutely believe it.  I have a relative who is very rational, analytical, etc.  He had a not-unusual number of serious relationships (longer than a year), and he was happy with them, but they just weren't love for him.  Then he met someone at age 29 and fell in love for the first time, and got married.  The women he had been dating were what would be considered good catches and appropriate for him, and they were all very nice people, but for whatever reason did not spark love for him.  Our family trusted that he knew his heart, and didn't pressure him about how he should be falling in love with one of these women.  I could see Derek being like that, given that I think Derek's profession is engineer.

Thanks for that perspective!  And good on your family too!

3 hours ago, MajorNelson said:

But it would be stupid.  He's in the DC area, and within a 100 mile radius there are a ton of Catholics, some places even a majority of the population.  Regardless, he was at least willing to work at the place, which might suggest he didn't have a problem with their beliefs.  Or, as speculated, he did get cold feet when he had to sign something about supporting the catechism a certain way.

Good point.  I just think since Michael apparently lied about what he said to Meka (and I believe her) that his lying is habitual.

[discoprincessthe2]

On 2/29/2020 at 3:08 PM, spunky said:

Meka and Luke might have actually worked. Physically she’s his type and he surely wouldn’t have pulled the crap he did with Kate. In fact Luke needs to track Meka down and get the ball rolling.

Oh, no. I wouldn't wish Luke on ANYONE. 😏

[Ilovepie]

Finally broke down and watched this. Now I am asking myself why. What a wretched group this is. On any other season, one or two assholes was sufficient. Now they’ve doubled down! The only scenes not painful to watch were ones involving Austin and Jessica. I swear every week I am done, but every week I keep watching, and it’s just as horrible. I’d like to say I’m not going to do it anymore, but I know I will. What is wrong with me?!! Gah! I’ll be back this week after I finish hate watching Wednesday’s episode.......😝

[Elizzikra]

7 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

Finally broke down and watched this. Now I am asking myself why. What a wretched group this is. On any other season, one or two assholes was sufficient. Now they’ve doubled down! The only scenes not painful to watch were ones involving Austin and Jessica. I swear every week I am done, but every week I keep watching, and it’s just as horrible. I’d like to say I’m not going to do it anymore, but I know I will. What is wrong with me?!! Gah! I’ll be back this week after I finish hate watching Wednesday’s episode.......😝

Human nature - we can't look away from a train wreck, no matter how ghastly.

[Ilovepie]

On 3/1/2020 at 1:19 PM, becauseIsaidso said:

I have never understood how people can really WASH their hair everyday without destroying all the natural oils away.

You clearly have different texture than I do: My hair is baby fine and completely, totally, 100% straight. I use volumizing product when I blow dry it and a finishing product when I style it. It feels dirty 10 hours after I wash and style it. There is no scenario where I DON'T wash it daily. I even drag my sad weak body to the shower to wash it when I am sick as dog bc I can't stand the feeling of greasy, dirty hair.

[Hangin Out]

17 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

Finally broke down and watched this. Now I am asking myself why. What a wretched group this is. On any other season, one or two assholes was sufficient. Now they’ve doubled down! The only scenes not painful to watch were ones involving Austin and Jessica. I swear every week I am done, but every week I keep watching, and it’s just as horrible. I’d like to say I’m not going to do it anymore, but I know I will. What is wrong with me?!! Gah! I’ll be back this week after I finish hate watching Wednesday’s episode.......😝

Hahaha .. me too.  I say I’m not going to watch, then something pulls me.  The saddest thing is I watch 90 Day Fiancé too.  I’m desperate.  P.S. My husband is a total sports guy, but watches too.

[Yeah No]

On 2/29/2020 at 11:37 AM, Mrs. Button said:

I agree — she acts like Derek may have lost interest in her due to her having sex with him so soon, but to her, sex is a bargaining chip to hold over his head to "make" him love her. How romantic! That sounds, like, so mature. And the irony is that he *did* something utterly romantic by looking into adding her to his health insurance. Nothing says "I am here for you"  more, ESPECIALLY for someone with diabetes. Obviously unless the relationship utterly implodes, he's planning to stick around, but she is so distracted by this never-been-in-love narrative and her ex that she completely misreads the situation.   

I actually think it's the other way around and that Derek is using the "I don't know if I'll be able to fall in love" line as a power play to keep himself in the upper hand in the relationship.  If anyone's going to do the dumping or heart breaking, it's going to be him, or so he tells himself.  That doesn't mean he doesn't really like Katie, just that he wants to be the one with upper hand in the relationship by inserting the doubt in Katie's mind that he is really invested in her so as to make her pursue him.  It's manipulative and I wouldn't trust a guy that did that to me.  He is offering to put her on his insurance out of duty.  She wants him to do that stuff from his heart, not because they have a piece of paper that implies that this is what a married man should do.  And I do think she should expect that his heart be involved in it, just maybe not so soon.  But him making an issue of whether his heart will ever be in it so soon was his fault.  He shouldn't have done that because it would make any woman paranoid about whether this guy was ever going to love them.  Again, I think it was a power play, but one that just may backfire on him and sabotage the relationship.

[Yeah No]

On 3/2/2020 at 1:32 PM, LuvMyShows said:

I absolutely believe it.  I have a relative who is very rational, analytical, etc.  He had a not-unusual number of serious relationships (longer than a year), and he was happy with them, but they just weren't love for him.  Then he met someone at age 29 and fell in love for the first time, and got married.  The women he had been dating were what would be considered good catches and appropriate for him, and they were all very nice people, but for whatever reason did not spark love for him.  Our family trusted that he knew his heart, and didn't pressure him about how he should be falling in love with one of these women.  I could see Derek being like that, given that I think Derek's profession is engineer.

I think Derek is a bit of a geek and he reminds me of an engineer I was good friends with at work once.  He was so over-analytical that he would scare away the notion of love before it ever had a chance to get off the ground.  He sabotaged many relationships because he had many impossibly unrealistic expectations about what love was supposed to be and feel like.  There was nothing I could do to make him feel differently.  He is now in his late 40s and still single, only he has developed a bad attitude toward women because he blames them for not being what he thinks he needs.  He has been involved with women but just somehow never feels they rise to his fantastical image of what his ideal woman should be.  He claims that he would know love if it ever happened to him.  I say he has made it such an unattainable thing in his mind that he wouldn't know it if it hit him in the face.  Derek could become this guy, I hate to say.  One day he may just meet someone that knocks his socks off and none of his rationalizations can make him avoid it.  The only problem is that even if a woman came along that had this effect on him I am convinced she would inevitably fail him due to the fact that no one could ever live up to his impossible standards, and eventually he would break it off with her.  Again, I worry that Derek could be like this guy.  I really hope for his and Katie's sake that he is not that bad!

[Yeah No]

On 3/1/2020 at 10:30 PM, Elizzikra said:

Women of a certain age often start to sweat in their sleep. Don’t ask how I know...

Haha, I know how, same here!  And it doesn't stop with menopause, but continues afterward.  Somehow my body is set to sweat at a lower temperature than it used to - I've actually read that this is not uncommon for women after menopause.  I'm 61 so I know the name of that tune....

Regarding showers and hair washing, I have always showered once a day in the morning, only twice if engaged in some sort of intense physical activity (yes, that too).  I could never only shower at night because even when I didn't sweat at night I have oily skin and I would feel like I had to shower in the morning again anyway.  And with a scalp like an oil well my hair would only need to be washed again in the morning too.  Except now I only wash my hair once ever 3 days because my scalp is much dryer than it used to be and if I shampoo more often it gets too dry and my hair turns to straw.  Also I use only sulfate free shampoo now too.  Reading the posts here I see I am not alone.

Ah the joys of getting older....Young'ns take note.

[Yeah No]

On 2/29/2020 at 3:17 PM, Elizzikra said:

I have nothing against makeup - I wear it myself sometimes. Both my husband and my closet will testify that I'm quite the clothes-horse. What I object to is the idea that a woman must conform to a conventional notion of female beauty (driven by that billion dollar business you mention) to get and keep a man. I especially chafe at the notion that they have to do that at all times, even when they are home dusting or making dinner or just relaxing. Real men - good men - love their partners just as much when they are in sweats and a t-shirt as they do when their wives are made up. There is nothing wrong with being glam. There is nothing wrong with showing your naked face to the world. There's certainly nothing wrong with showing it to your partner.

 Of course not, but Mindy was dressing that way out on what was essentially a date with a guy she basically just met, not at home doing her laundry after 2 years of marriage.  I think everyone should dress for themselves first, but whether we like it or not, how we choose to present ourselves gives off a message to the world about how much we respect our bodies.  If you want people to respect you and then you go and dress in a way that makes them think you don't respect yourself, that's a lot to ask of them.  It shouldn't mean extensive alterations to one's teeth or whatever, but just a little self care and for chrissakes pants that don't hang on you like a soiled diaper!  I'm not asking for much here.....

That said, Mindy does look fine when she puts in a little effort, so no, she shouldn't change herself that much, just gild the lily a little bit.  It goes a long way with most people.  I recently found out that my own husband is turned on by me in lipstick, which I wear pretty much all of the time.  I never knew that and we've been married 40 years this year!  There's nothing wrong with that either.  We're all visual creatures and doing these things can enhance our desire for each other.  Like when he wears a suit.  I am a sucker for a man in a suit.  We want the other to find us attractive, there's nothing wrong with that.  I think holding fast to a "take me as I am" stance often backfires because it misses the point that we're all at some level shallow and need to see our SO's in a certain way to be more attracted to them.  It doesn't mean we value the shallow over substance either.  If it does that would be a problem, but I don't think that is necessarily the case.  Of course if someone loves us they become blind and are attracted to us with or without any gilding, but that comes later, not 2 weeks into a relationship!

On 3/1/2020 at 3:21 PM, Elizzikra said:

Why? Why should MIndy want to "look more put together" just because she's on a tv show? Everyone is always on the lookout for ways that "reality" shows are fake. One of the fakest things I can think of is a woman who doesn't wear her hang-around-the-house-clothes when she's ... hanging around the house. 

Most women color their hair.  Most women go to a salon and have their hair cut.  Most women shop for clothes.  If you think about it all those things are "fake" because it's not how we come out of the box.  So we're all presenting an image whether we like it or not and we have to decide which one fits how we feel about ourselves inside.  And there's nothing wrong with it if we feel that doing something "fake" makes us look better to some guy we are trying to attract.  If we see something wrong with it and deny it we may end up presenting an image that tells the world we don't respect ourselves enough to present a reasonably attractive version of ourselves.  And would we really want to do that?  I don't think so.  We can sabotage ourselves that way.  That's pretty much the philosophy of Stacy and Clinton from "What not to Wear" and one I subscribe to myself.

[Haute Messe]

I just watched the  Couples Couch episode and nearly died watching Ashley and Anthony. They took a drink every time someone said the L word. They must have gone through three bottles of wine! Hope somebody was clear headed enough in case the baby woke up. 

[Mrs. Button]

Quote

I actually think it's the other way around and that Derek is using the "I don't know if I'll be able to fall in love" line as a power play to keep himself in the upper hand in the relationship.  If anyone's going to do the dumping or heart breaking, it's going to be him, or so he tells himself.  That doesn't mean he doesn't really like Katie, just that he wants to be the one with upper hand in the relationship by inserting the doubt in Katie's mind that he is really invested in her so as to make her pursue him.  It's manipulative and I wouldn't trust a guy that did that to me.  He is offering to put her on his insurance out of duty.  She wants him to do that stuff from his heart, not because they have a piece of paper that implies that this is what a married man should do.  And I do think she should expect that his heart be involved in it, just maybe not so soon.  But him making an issue of whether his heart will ever be in it so soon was his fault.  He shouldn't have done that because it would make any woman paranoid about whether this guy was ever going to love them.  Again, I think it was a power play, but one that just may backfire on him and sabotage the relationship.

I totally see your point and agree to a degree, and neither are coming from a honest place — which is necessary to succeed long term (or even for 8 weeks). For me the bottom line is, pushing someone to profess or generate feelings for you never works — in fact it tends to backfire. It's far wiser to take a step back and let things unfold as they will as opposed to discussing everything to death. Derek strikes me as very young, and never having been in love, I wouldn't put too much stock in how long he thinks it will take or whatever nonsense is setting her off. (Frankly, that's what is going to be the death of this couple IMHO.) And it may be my age or pre-existing condition, but I still think his looking into her insurance was exactly how you would treat someone you do really care about. It's also a decisive, telling action that goes way beyond saying the right things.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Mrs. Button

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Haha, I know how, same here!  And it doesn't stop with menopause, but continues afterward.  

That is really not what I wanted to hear 😞

Quote

Most women color their hair.  Most women go to a salon and have their hair cut.  Most women shop for clothes.  If you think about it all those things are "fake" because it's not how we come out of the box.  So we're all presenting an image whether we like it or not and we have to decide which one fits how we feel about ourselves inside.  And there's nothing wrong with it if we feel that doing something "fake" makes us look better to some guy we are trying to attract.  If we see something wrong with it and deny it we may end up presenting an image that tells the world we don't respect ourselves enough to present a reasonably attractive version of ourselves.  And would we really want to do that?  I don't think so.  We can sabotage ourselves that way.  That's pretty much the philosophy of Stacy and Clinton from "What not to Wear" and one I subscribe to myself.

I have a lot of regular hair interventions - and I've been doing it so long, I'm not entirely sure what my natural hair looks like. What I was objecting to was the statement that because Mindy is on tv, she shouldn't be wearing her sweatpants and tank top when she's hanging around the house - she should want to present herself better to the viewing audience. That feels artificial to me -if she were to put on a nice outfit and wear makeup to do the laundry, people would be critical -"no one dresses up to do housework."

[Hangin Out]

11 hours ago, Yeah No said:

 Of course not, but Mindy was dressing that way out on what was essentially a date with a guy she basically just met, not at home doing her laundry after 2 years of marriage.  I think everyone should dress for themselves first, but whether we like it or not, how we choose to present ourselves gives off a message to the world about how much we respect our bodies.  If you want people to respect you and then you go and dress in a way that makes them think you don't respect yourself, that's a lot to ask of them.  It shouldn't mean extensive alterations to one's teeth or whatever, but just a little self care and for chrissakes pants that don't hang on you like a soiled diaper!  I'm not asking for much here.....

That said, Mindy does look fine when she puts in a little effort, so no, she shouldn't change herself that much, just gild the lily a little bit.  It goes a long way with most people.  I recently found out that my own husband is turned on by me in lipstick, which I wear pretty much all of the time.  I never knew that and we've been married 40 years this year!  There's nothing wrong with that either.  We're all visual creatures and doing these things can enhance our desire for each other.  Like when he wears a suit.  I am a sucker for a man in a suit.  We want the other to find us attractive, there's nothing wrong with that.  I think holding fast to a "take me as I am" stance often backfires because it misses the point that we're all at some level shallow and need to see our SO's in a certain way to be more attracted to them.  It doesn't mean we value the shallow over substance either.  If it does that would be a problem, but I don't think that is necessarily the case.  Of course if someone loves us they become blind and are attracted to us with or without any gilding, but that comes later, not 2 weeks into a relationship!

Most women color their hair.  Most women go to a salon and have their hair cut.  Most women shop for clothes.  If you think about it all those things are "fake" because it's not how we come out of the box.  So we're all presenting an image whether we like it or not and we have to decide which one fits how we feel about ourselves inside.  And there's nothing wrong with it if we feel that doing something "fake" makes us look better to some guy we are trying to attract.  If we see something wrong with it and deny it we may end up presenting an image that tells the world we don't respect ourselves enough to present a reasonably attractive version of ourselves.  And would we really want to do that?  I don't think so.  We can sabotage ourselves that way.  That's pretty much the philosophy of Stacy and Clinton from "What not to Wear" and one I subscribe to myself.

You explained everything perfectly.  Good post !😀

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, Mrs. Button said:

I totally see your point and agree to a degree, and neither are coming from a honest place — which is necessary to succeed long term (or even for 8 weeks). For me the bottom line is, pushing someone to profess or generate feelings for you never works — in fact it tends to backfire. It's far wiser to take a step back and let things unfold as they will as opposed to discussing everything to death. Derek strikes me as very young, and never having been in love, I wouldn't put too much stock in how long he thinks it will take or whatever nonsense is setting her off. (Frankly, that's what is going to be the death of this couple IMHO.) And it may be my age or pre-existing condition, but I still think his looking into her insurance was exactly how you would treat someone you do really care about. It's also a decisive, telling action that goes way beyond saying the right things.

Oh I think Derek is being honest, he's just not aware that he's engaging in self and relationship sabotage.  I don't think Katie is pushing him to have feelings for her.  She's just reacting to him saying he didn't think the possibility was there that he would develop feelings for her in 8 weeks.  I think any woman would wonder whether a guy that said that so decisively right from the getgo isn't engaging in some kind of defeatist attitude that would ensure it would never happen.  It sounds like he's rejecting her right away before letting anything happen on its own.  And that's never a good place to start from in any relationship.  I don't blame her for reacting the way she has about it.  I personally think his behavior is consistent with a form of commitment-phobia.  He makes sure he doesn't develop feelings so if things go south he can easily walk away without getting hurt.  It's a form of self-protection.  I don't think Derek is comfortable letting himself be vulnerable to getting hurt.  His history confirms this so I don't think it's anything necessarily about Katie that is making him not trust her.  He has already admitted to being the one to do the dumping in relationships, not being the dumpee.  So him acting like this with Katie is only a part of his commitment and feeling-phobic pattern, and it's a big red flag for me.

With regard to the insurance, any decent guy in that situation whether committed to a woman or not would offer to do that.  It doesn't mean he's really committed to her in his heart.  I said on week one or two that Derek struck me as the kind of person that could turn on a dime about someone if things went south because his commitment is really only conditional on some impossible experience of a feeling that he is so loathe to be open to having that it never actually does happen.  He's the kind of guy that could stay in a relationship for years and never admit to being in love, and quite possibly might never be in love with the woman, and if things got uncomfortable he could just walk away from the relationship without suffering the real hurt that comes from really loving someone.  What woman would want to set herself up for being in a relationship with a guy like that?  He's obviously done it before - he admitted to being involved with a woman for 2 years, and I'll bet he engaged in some pretty promising "committed" behavior only to be able to walk away from the relationship when the woman probably got upset because he never was able to tell her he loved her.  Pathetic, and I don't blame Katie for not wanting to overlook those huge red flags with him.

If Derek ever DOES fall in love it will be with a woman he thinks he can completely control and never would have to mistrust that she would walk away from him.  Of course, that's a rare woman.  He might have to go on 90 Day Fiance to find one, LOL.  Don't laugh, I knew another geeky engineer type that actually did marry a woman who needed a green card and they are living in whatever kind of symbiotic relationship that doesn't meet my standards for real love and commitment where he totally dominates her and gets his way in exchange for her being a citizen and being taken care of in style, but it's the only thing either one is capable of.....And they think that's "love".  Whatever....🙄

 

[gonecrackers]

Whatever Derek's issues are Katie slammed the door shut on him by proclaiming feelings for her ex. Derek has a chance of opening up to someone someday - he got married FFS, so might've really wanted to try. But Katie is vindictive & threw her ex at him when he explained his feelings, honestly. She's immature, nasty, acts like the cool gurl at school (a very bad look at her age), & needs her own brand of help before dragging anyone into her lair again.

[LilaFowler]

It really bothers me when a woman is faulted for not getting dolled up enough, while the man isn't held to the flames for being shallow and superficial. If appearance is so important to Zach he should not be on a show that married him off to a woman he has never seen before. It's really that simple.

[Kiss my mutt]

That wasn’t much of a date to get dolled up for. 

[gonecrackers]

If Zach ends up proclaiming an attraction for Mindy & they stay married I'm gonna feel some type of way (🙄 🤐) about this show... 🤨

[Ilovepie]

With regard to Mindy's appearance, I will say that exercise gear is her work uniform and probably makes up the bulk of her wardrobe. I know younger ladies view yoga pants/tights as "pants" these days. I am 47 and only go out in my yoga pants in an emergency or early in the morning. I don't troll around in them at all, but look around at younger gals and that's all they wear it seems (recall Amber from last season). On two of the instances where they got together it was not weird that Mindy was dressed that way. When they were out near the creek with the dog she had just come from work, and when they were playing cards it was late at night (Hence Zach's "pajama party" comment) where he was also wearing sweats.

I don't think that this is really Zach's issue with her though because he has seen her looking more put together and knows she is capable of it. He also frequently wears sweats, so it would be utter hypocrisy to ding her for it. I think it's probably her actual looks, body type or personality that is his issue.

In my own house, my husband has said that she is the only one this season he finds attractive, sweats or no, so there is a male perspective for you.......

[Empress1]

2 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

It really bothers me when a woman is faulted for not getting dolled up enough, while the man isn't held to the flames for being shallow and superficial. If appearance is so important to Zach he should not be on a show that married him off to a woman he has never seen before. It's really that simple.

Also was Zach dolled up? I feel like he’s been in workout gear every time he’s been on screen. I know he’s a trainer but I’m sure he owns jeans.

Men have lower standards for looking good (most men don’t wear makeup, for example) but I believe men should put in some effort too. I remember on the Dirty John board we were all talking about how we wouldn’t have kept the first date with John because he rolled up to Debra’s front door looking like he had just mowed the lawn. It’s not all on women. 

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

Whatever Derek's issues are Katie slammed the door shut on him by proclaiming feelings for her ex. Derek has a chance of opening up to someone someday - he got married FFS, so might've really wanted to try. But Katie is vindictive & threw her ex at him when he explained his feelings, honestly. She's immature, nasty, acts like the cool gurl at school (a very bad look at her age), & needs her own brand of help before dragging anyone into her lair again.

Derek came off like a snotty dweeb with that business about not thinking he could fall in love.  He was the one slamming doors on her, how could I expect her to not react in kind?  He deserved that and I applaud her for not letting him get away with it!  Even his own father didn't seem to embrace his attitude and told him to stay open.  He can explain his feelings all the honestly he wants, it doesn't get him off the hook of making a woman feel like he's throwing up walls and rejecting her from the start.  I don't think mentioning the ex was the best thing to do but I can sympathize with Katie about that.  I'd be like, OK, you want to throw up walls and put on brakes, I have a walls and brakes for you too!  Seriously, I've dealt with Derek types before and I have zero patience for that kind of overly protective, particular and fussy child.  Grow the F up already and think about a woman's feelings for a change instead of being so overly protective of your own. 

[Yeah No]

11 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Also was Zach dolled up? I feel like he’s been in workout gear every time he’s been on screen. I know he’s a trainer but I’m sure he owns jeans.

I personally never said that Mindy should get "dolled up", but just pay more attention to her appearance, such as don't wear pants that hang on you like a used diaper and find a more flattering way to put your hair up.  She can do those things and still wear workout gear.  I think Zach looks more put together than she does even in the workout gear and I don't even find him attractive.

3 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

It really bothers me when a woman is faulted for not getting dolled up enough, while the man isn't held to the flames for being shallow and superficial. If appearance is so important to Zach he should not be on a show that married him off to a woman he has never seen before. It's really that simple.

Who isn't holding Zach to the flames for being shallow and superficial?   That's all anyone has done with him.  He is shallow and superficial but then again they paired him with someone that a lot of people might not find attractive so it's a little bit of both.

[gonecrackers]

10 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Derek came off like a snotty dweeb with that business about not thinking he could fall in love.  He was the one slamming doors on her, how could I expect her to not react in kind?  He deserved that and I applaud her for not letting him get away with it!  Even his own father didn't seem to embrace his attitude and told him to stay open.  He can explain his feelings all the honestly he wants, it doesn't get him off the hook of making a woman feel like he's throwing up walls and rejecting her from the start.  I don't think mentioning the ex was the best thing to do but I can sympathize with Katie about that.  I'd be like, OK, you want to throw up walls and put on brakes, I have a walls and brakes for you too!  Seriously, I've dealt with Derek types before and I have zero patience for that kind of overly protective, particular and fussy child.  Grow the F up already and think about a woman's feelings for a change instead of being so overly protective of your own. 

Reacting in kind was very petty & immature -no high roads there & not exactly relationship material thing to do. IF she really wants Derek to grow in love she should've left that door open. Now it's closed, as it should be for both of them, & maybe that's what she originally wanted. She had been calling him a 'nerd' from the honeymoon, which might've grated a bit as well...

Edited March 4, 2020 by gonecrackers

[Yeah No]

11 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

Reacting in kind was very immature -no high roads there & not exactly relationship material thing to do. IF she really wants Derek to grow in love she should've left that door open. Now it's closed, as it should be for both of them, & maybe that's what she originally wanted. She had been calling him a 'nerd' from the honeymoon, which might've grated a bit as well...

I think that HE wanted to close the door first or he would never have said that business about not thinking he could fall in love in 8 weeks in the first place.  So in my opinion HE's the one who started sabotaging the relationship.  If a guy told me that, especially after MARRYING me it would piss me off and make me think he's getting me ready to be his next "dumpee".  So what door was there left to leave open after him saying that?  The door to being the next girl he strings along for 2 years before dumping?  It's even worse knowing he's done that before already!

The question is, what woman in her right mind would want to leave any door open to falling in love with a guy that tells her right off the bat that he doesn't think he can fall in love with her in 8 weeks?  Like he's already sure of that without even giving it a chance!  What's to make her think that there is any chance even after 8 weeks?  I'd put my walls up if I were her too!

Edited March 4, 2020 by Yeah No

[Hangin Out]

6 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I think that HE wanted to close the door first or he would never have said that business about not thinking he could fall in love in 8 weeks in the first place.  So in my opinion HE's the one who started sabotaging the relationship.  If a guy told me that, especially after MARRYING me it would piss me off and make me think he's getting me ready to be his next "dumpee".  So what door was there left to leave open after him saying that?  The door to being the next girl he strings along for 2 years before dumping?  It's even worse knowing he's done that before already!

Wait.  She thought he was a nerd on the honeymoon but then slept with him?  I guess I’m too old school.  Anything goes now.  Guess I missed out, lol.

[gonecrackers]

Just now, Silver Bells said:

Wait.  She thought he was a nerd on the honeymoon but then slept with him?  I guess I’m too old school.  Anything goes now.  Guess I missed out, lol.

She's been calling him a nerd almost from the get go. Maybe at first she thought he was a sexy nerd, or good enough to fuck, but I see her talking down about him a lot. I don't think anyone could fall in love with her condescending attitude, not even her 'ex', who IF he exists, only said it when he knew she was marrying someone else. Great guy Katie, run to him...

[cinsays]

35 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Derek came off like a snotty dweeb with that business about not thinking he could fall in love.  He was the one slamming doors on her, how could I expect her to not react in kind?  He deserved that and I applaud her for not letting him get away with it!  Even his own father didn't seem to embrace his attitude and told him to stay open.  He can explain his feelings all the honestly he wants, it doesn't get him off the hook of making a woman feel like he's throwing up walls and rejecting her from the start.  I don't think mentioning the ex was the best thing to do but I can sympathize with Katie about that.  I'd be like, OK, you want to throw up walls and put on brakes, I have a walls and brakes for you too!  Seriously, I've dealt with Derek types before and I have zero patience for that kind of overly protective, particular and fussy child.  Grow the F up already and think about a woman's feelings for a change instead of being so overly protective of your own. 

he didn't say he didn't think he could fall in love, just not in a short time span

 

 

[Hangin Out]

Just now, cinsays said:

he didn't say he didn't think he could fall in love, just not in a short time span

Sorry .. mistake

 

 

[Hangin Out]

6 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

She's been calling him a nerd almost from the get go. Maybe at first she thought he was a sexy nerd, or good enough to fuck, but I see her talking down about him a lot. I don't think anyone could fall in love with her condescending attitude, not even her 'ex', who IF he exists, only said it when he knew she was marrying someone else. Great guy Katie, run to him...

I doubt he exists.  Plus, she holds herself in high esteem, when in reality she’s not all that.  

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, cinsays said:

he didn't say he didn't think he could fall in love, just not in a short time span

I know that, my opinion is based on that.  It doesn't matter that it's 8 weeks, the fact that he got up there and proclaimed that he was pretty sure he would not be able to fall in love with this woman in 8 weeks is still defeatist enough to make her feel like he's prejudiced against it happening even if there might otherwise be a chance of it happening in 8 weeks.  He's predicting the future - How does he know that he won't fall in love with her in the 8 weeks of the show unless he's going to jinx it from happening because he doesn't WANT it to happen?  And if he is so sure it won't happen and/or doesn't want it to happen in 8 weeks, how is she supposed to believe he's going to be open to letting it happen AFTER the 8 weeks?  I know I wouldn't want to take that bet EVER!

Thank goodness my husband is with me 10,000 percent on this.  The young people on this show stick their foot in their mouths with every other sentence - saying things to turn each other off, getting picky, fussy, petulent, all sorts of stuff that sabotages any chance of a relationship getting off the ground!  Thank goodness we had the good sense not to be overly critically HONEST with each other in the first few fragile weeks of our relationship or we wouldn't be celebrating our 40th wedding anniversary this year.  We wouldn't have made it past the first MONTH if we were anything like these people!

[princelina]

On 3/1/2020 at 10:08 AM, Silver Bells said:

How about Basement Ryan and her, the one with the vodka?  She wanted him in the end, but he wanted Mama.  They should have a Reunion of all of them.  That would be great t.v.

He actually had a secret girlfriend while they were filming.  

21 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

It really bothers me when a woman is faulted for not getting dolled up enough, while the man isn't held to the flames for being shallow and superficial. 

I have held Zach to the flames for styling his hair with a big round brush 🙄

[Ilovepie]

I think all of this back and forth about Katie Derek just proves that NEITHER of these fools is mature enough to be married......