Season 16 Live Feed Discussion: Keeping an Eye Out

[peachmangosteen]

It's kind if sad how women and particularly young women think any amount of discomfort is as long as they look pretty or are in fashion. I tortured my wide body feet for years and years. Now I wouldn't do that, but I understand the impetus.

 

Agreed.

 

I'm so pissed that Zach isn't even going to go nuts over this nomination. The only thing he brings to the table is stupid, erratic behavior and he won't even do that for me right now!

 

At least I feel pretty confident there's no way he'll win the comp to come back. He sucks at comps and I imagine he'll be especially bad at endurance.

 

Hayden is our only chance at seeing a change in the game. But honestly, I've decided we won't even if he comes back. Even if he noms Derrick, I bet everyone will just be like "OMG how dare he nominate our Lord and Savior? HE HAS A KID!" and they'll just vote out whoever the other nom is.

[Nashville]

It's called corneal neovascularitis. Unlike most of the rest of your body, your cornea doesn't normally depend solely on the circulatory system for oxygen; it also absorbs some from the outside air when your eyes are open. Extended wear contact lenses are designed with this in mind, as they allow oxygen to perfuse through the lens. If the contacts aren't cleaned regularly, though, the perfusion can stop - and if the cornea isn't getting the oxygen it needs from the outside air, new blood vessels will start growing across the cornea so the circulatory system can compensate for the O2 loss. As you can guess, this *does* impinge rather severely on the whole seeing thing.

I had a problem with this back in college, when the 30-day extended wear contacts first hit the market; it's why I no longer wear contacts. The condition is treatable - if you don't mind putting sulfur drops in your eyes daily for about six months. Tends to leave your corneas looking like the surface if the moon as well (a direct quote from my opthamologist), so you also end up with a roaring case of astigmatism as a final parting gift.

Vic is a pretty girl - but someone needs to tell her if she continues to sacrifice health on the altar of vanity, she's going to end up old, bald and blind. I doubt she really wants that. :(

[Katesus7]

I would think the "renom" rule ship sailed around the time they picked skittles.  If they enforce it now I'll be a bit pissed, quite frankly. 

[peachmangosteen]

I would think the "renom" rule ship sailed around the time they picked skittles.  If they enforce it now I'll be a bit pissed, quite frankly. 

 

Me too. But then I was also pissed when they actually did enforce it for Britney. Which, speaking of, she tweeted about that rule not really being a rule. Oh, honey!

 

I've decided that since it is now almost a 100% certainty that Derrick is winning, I hope he is able to drag Victoria to F2 so all these nimrods can see that he never intended to take any of them.

 

Speaking of Derrick I'm so confused by him. Does he think that we can't hear or see him? Or does he think we're as easily bullshitted as the HGs?

Edited August 18, 2014 by peachmangosteen

[Wings]

I would think the "renom" rule ship sailed around the time they picked skittles.  If they enforce it now I'll be a bit pissed, quite frankly. 

 

 

Me too.

[Nashville]

Speaking of Derrick I'm so confused by him. Does he think that we can't hear or see him? Or does he think we're as easily bullshitted as the HGs?

Derrick is aiming for Final 2 money, honey. (Sorry, couldn't resist the rhyme)

Which means he probably won't be eligible for AFP.

Which means he probably isn't worrying a lot about what we think - but he'll make the occasional empty gesture every now and then, just in case.

[peachmangosteen]

Then why bother bullshitting in the DR? I think he does care what people think, but it's only the show-only audience he cares about because they're much bigger than the feed audience. ETA: Alternatively, he may be playing/bullshitting Production in the DR.

 

So, since I'm apparently insane, I was checking twitter for BB things. Upon this I've discovered that the Zach stans are super crazy and I am now very afraid that Zach is gonna take America's Fave away from Donny.

Edited August 18, 2014 by peachmangosteen

[Nashville]

Me too.

Me three. Don't get me wrong, I've come to like Wacky Zach - but Frankie's apparently too dense to see Zach's loyalty is one of the crutches propping Frankie up in his game. If Frankie insists on kicking his own crutch out from underneath himself, then Frankie deserves the limp as he proceeds.

[Skittl1321]

 

Even the contacts that are meant to be worn all the time are supposed to be taken out daily and cleaned properly.

 

That's not true. Extended wear contacts don't get removed. When I wore them, I took them out once every 28 days- went 2 days without contacts, and then put a new pair in.  (The two day break was a suggestion by the eye doctor, but not required.)  I didn't even own cleaning solution or saline rinse. However, after 8 years of this, I did develop a corneal ulcer (because the extended wear contacts do have higher risks), so now I just wear dailies.  But supposedly the new 30-day kinds are much more breathable than before and less risky than they used to be.

 

But as vain as I think Victoria is, I don't think wearing contacts 24 hrs/day is vanity.  I cannot see a darn thing when I wake up at night, not even my alarm clock. In the big brother house where you are often woken up at night for game related reasons, I can understand wanting to see what was going on.  Or where people are closely sharing your sleeping space, and you want to be able to identify who is walking around, and be able to judge the distance of how close they are to you.  Since that house is a pig-sty and there is really no personal space, I wouldn't trust putting my glasses on a bedside table.  I'd rather just be able to wake up and see.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Skittl1321

[TimWil]

I do think as of now that Zach will win America's Favorite in a landslide. A lot of people will justify voting for him over Donny because Donny is TA and Zach has been an unwitting participant in their missions.

Edited August 18, 2014 by TimWil

[AndreaK1041]

Yes, like me. Team Zach. Woot.

 

I am not a "Zach stan" though, which is apparently a thing?  I had not heard of "stans" until recently.  Is it just cute slang/typo for fan?  Teenagers are such pains in the ass.

 

Frankie is preparing a rap for his renom speech, so that should be awful. Unlike Zach, who does stupid shit as jokes, Frankie thinks his rap is clever. OK, Zach thinks he's clever too, but I hate Frankie, ergo, I am not using circular logic. 

[RedheadZombie]

Then why bother bullshitting in the DR? I think he does care what people think, but it's only the show-only audience he cares about because they're much bigger than the feed audience. ETA: Alternatively, he may be playing/bullshitting Production in the DR.

 

If Derrick is lying to production, I admire his game that much more.  I don't understand why these people don't figure out they are manipulated in the DR.

[Pixel]

As much as I can't stand the way everyone is blind to Derrick running things, I do think if they don't get a clue he absolutely deserves to win the whole thing. And I say that as someone who really, really wants Donny to win.

[RealityGal]

It's kind if sad how women and particularly young women think any amount of discomfort is as long as they look pretty or are in fashion. I tortured my wide body feet for years and years. Now I wouldn't do that, but I understand the impetus.

Yeah, I wouldn't judge her too harshly, but I'm surprised she didn't just buy a wig.  Good wigs are expensive, but can be worn without glue, taken off at night, and probably wouldn't weigh down her thinning hair.  If she has to take out the extensions every few hours its not like people in the house haven't seen her regular hair, and I think she would be able to avoid the bleeding scalp thing.

Edited August 18, 2014 by RealityGal

[HurricaneVal]

I would think the "renom" rule ship sailed around the time they picked skittles.  If they enforce it now I'll be a bit pissed, quite frankly.

 

Exactly.  That whole thing went down, for a long time, in front of all the cameras, very openly, in the HOH room where production had full knowledge of exactly what was happening, as it was happening.  If that didn't run afoul of the renom rule, then I really don't know what would qualify. 

 

Unless, maybe the renom rule only applies to potential replacement nominations during the Veto ceremony? 

 

I wish they'd stop furnishing all that snacky stuff to the HOH(s).  I think it just encourages stupidity like the Skittles draw.  Plus, it seems to draw everyone to the HOH room.  I much prefer the days before the HOH room became some sort of nightclub VIP room, where only the "cool" kids hang out.

[TheRealT]

Derrick does seem to care a lot about what "America" thinks of him, but I think he also thinks he can hoodwink America. He knows that only a small fraction of what they do/say is aired on the TV show, so he makes little speeches like the one throwing Donny under the bus for not completing that TA mission even though Derrick also agreed that it was a bad idea and Donny said that he would do it if D and F wanted to. I think he's more grounded than a lot of the famewhores on the show, but he still hopes that maybe he could get some moneymaking/famewhoring opportunities after the show. If he were a popular "character" on the show he might be able to make money in his local area doing ads for local businesses, appearances at clubs, etc. I say "might" in the sense that such a thing is theoretically possible and I think Derrick has thought about that kind of thing and aspires to it, but I think it's highly unlikely that Derrick would be offered such opportunities. He's not very charismatic or funny or anything and he's a cop, so I think there's very limited appeal for "Come party with Officer Derrick at Club X!" If he's thinking bigger than that, he could be the next Jeff Schroeder or something doing higher profile, national appearances. I think he got excited when he was chosen for TA and thought that maybe it meant he was popular with the audience and that's the real reason for him giving lip service to TA being so important to him when, clearly, it isn't.

 

I don't think Derrick even has much potential as a legendary BB player/winner. He's playing a very good game, but he's faced almost no adversity, so it's really not as impressive as it could be if he did. He, Cody, Caleb, Christine, and, to a lesser extent, Frankie have basically coasted through the game thus far, being in control of everything and never being in any real danger. It has made them very arrogant and insufferable in how they regard the other hamsters, looking down their noses at them as if those 5 are these amazing players/people who are so superior. Caleb and Christine have actually been outside the power structure for some of the game, but they never realized it, so they've felt just as safe as the others the whole time. It's boring to watch. The dramatic tension of the show relies on the possibility that the right/wrong person could win a comp at any time and those who are on top one week can be on the bottom the next. This season it's been pretty much been clear every week that a certain person would be going or another certain person if the primary target won a comp or Derrick changed his mind. Every. Single. Week. We've now reached a point where people openly talk about the fact that NO ONE CAN BEAT DERRICK IN F2, but still the only person even thinking about getting him out is Donny. I can't give Derrick full credit for that, though, because the other HGs are just so lame. I think even Frankie only wants to get to F2 because that will mean he's the star of a wildly successful network show that's on 3 nights a week (you know that's how it is in his head) for as long as possible.

[TheGapper]

If Derrick is lying to production, I admire his game that much more.  I don't understand why these people don't figure out they are manipulated in the DR.

I sincerely hope that Derrick is lying to production. That'll earn him mad props in my book plus I love that they can't control everything.

Love Zach Stan. Better than Zach Attack. I think he'll concur.

[AndreaK1041]

Apparently Stan is portmanteau of "stalker" and "fan": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_(fan). Having a "fanbase" is such a weird thing these days, especially with social media.  People form themselves into this little online armies.  I do not think reality TV contestants should fall into this weird category (at least not unless it's some talent show thing like American Idol... Talk about stalker fans, yeesh), but apparently this year, they do.  At least Zach and Frankie do and then there are zankie stans as well.  Read a book, children of America!  This is not acceptable use of your time!

 

Posting on this forum, however, is excellent.

[Wings]

If Derrick is lying to production, I admire his game that much more.  I don't understand why these people don't figure out they are manipulated in the DR.

 

 

Where is "Derrick is lying to production" coming from?  Production sees and hears all of what goes on.  I don't understand why some think he is lying and about what?  Thanks.

[RedheadZombie]

Wings707, my interpretation would be Derrick keeping his true strategy and thoughts completely to himself.  If he doesn't tell the other HGs, and doesn't tell the DR, that means production has a harder time manipulating for or against Derrick's strategy.

[NeelyO]

I've also seen guesses on twitter that since Zach is a favorite and the current underdog, production likely has something in the works and is playing the current situation just right. Not sure specifically what they're suggesting but I guess I wouldn't be shocked if production did something to give him a chance to stay.

[Wings]

Wings707, my interpretation would be Derrick keeping his true strategy and thoughts completely to himself.  If he doesn't tell the other HGs, and doesn't tell the DR, that means production has a harder time manipulating for or against Derrick's strategy.

 

Thanks.  If that is true I am all for it!  Way to go Derrick.

[liqidclark]

I'm one of those fans who tweeted about saving Zach, because I'm bored and Twitter is meant for that kind of feedback. [snip]

Edited August 18, 2014 by Stinger97
Off-Topic

[NeelyO]

Has Julie mentioned specifically that there will be a competition to see who returns to the house? Is it possible they'll make it an America Votes type of thing, relying on Zach's big fan base to bring him back?

[Nashville]

Where is "Derrick is lying to production" coming from?  Production sees and hears all of what goes on.  I don't understand why some think he is lying and about what?  Thanks.

Production hears everything you say, and sees everything you do; they do not, however, know everything you think. Derrick's a fan of the show, and he knows how TPTB like to protect their favorites. For example: if Production gets wind one of their Favorites is in peril of eviction and a HG paired with that Favorite for a BotB plans to boycott the comp to keep the Favorite on the block - why, it's just barely possible Production might schedule a comp which favors single person execution over team execution. :)

If Derrick's Grand Vision for the game includes power-drilling one or more of Production's favorites, he may keep it to himself so Production doesn't have the opportunity to sabotage his plans. But he has to say something in the DR sessions - and what can Production do if he doesn't let them in on his actual plans, and keeps parroting the party line?

Don't know if this is actually the case - but if it is, then a Derrick deserves Caleb-crazy psycho props - and this from a Team Donny fan.

[Wings]

Did that include sharing feed information or news about something we may have missed?

[Cosmocrush]

Me three. Don't get me wrong, I've come to like Wacky Zach - but Frankie's apparently too dense to see Zach's loyalty is one of the crutches propping Frankie up in his game. If Frankie insists on kicking his own crutch out from underneath himself, then Frankie deserves the limp as he proceeds.

I agree.  I'm thinking that Frankie really just isn't too bright about playing BB.  Maybe he is just there for maximum camera time? 

 

As much as I can't stand the way everyone is blind to Derrick running things, I do think if they don't get a clue he absolutely deserves to win the whole thing. And I say that as someone who really, really wants Donny to win.

No clue needed.   Zach flat out told Frankie he would vote for Derrick at F2 over ANYONE else and that just whizzed right over Frankie's head.   This week was the best chance at getting Derrick out.  These people (with the exception of Donny, who has zero chance in my opinion) are playing for Derrick to win.  

[Wings]

Seriously, Diva?  BB should NOT let people into the DR if they haven’t responded to the first summons without good reason [sound asleep, in the can, cheating on their spouse, etc.].  It would KILL Frankie to not be able to put on a show for us.

 

 

I addressed this kind of behavior in the Suggestions thread.  This show needs to revamp things.

[SiobhanJW]

I just don't get it had been said several times by many people they would vote for Derrick In the final 2 against anyone. Why would you keep him around. It's time to think of yourself in this game and stop worrying about the group. Frankie should put up Derrick. The only person with balls to do it in the house right now is prolly Donny if he actually doesn't give a crap about TA loyalty (which I don't think he should) and as much as I don't want Zach to go, and I would want him to win the Comp and then HOH to come back in I don't think he would target Derrick. Having Hayden come back in the house would be awesome, because if he won HOH he would try and send either Derrick home and if he can't then Cody. He's the only one that would shake it up. Unless Hayden In the 5 seconds he sees Zach gives him the rundown. I would hope that Nicole would of spoke to Hayden this week and would possibly be on the same page. But we will see.

Why if your trying to win all this money would you try and keep Derricks biggest Allies In the house and get rid of your own. You know he's close to Cody and Victoria. Why would you keep either of them. It blows my mind. Screw TA.

[Stinger97]

Y'all, the topic here is the BB live feeds. It is not what the definition of a "stan" is, or what constitutes "boards-on-boards," or how much you hated or loved TWoP. Please be mindful of what you are posting, as I've had to delete several posts from the last couple hours. Thanks. 

[Wings]

Seems like Frankie was just warned about the renom rule.  He came out of DR and cuddled with Zach saying he didn't know what to do.  Oy

[peachmangosteen]

I don't really see Zach as an underdog. He has been in the alliance that's controlling the game since the beginning. He's getting evicted because he is very erratic and stupidly loyal. And because Frankie is apparently like everyone else and simply playing Derrick's game for him. But mostly it's due to his own terrible gameplay. At least he has company since everyone but Derrick is just atrocious at this game. It's quite hilarious. I wonder if Production had an idea that they would all suck? Or is it like last season when they just couldn't believe they cast like at least 4 hardcore racists?

I wouldn't be surprised if Derrick is playing Production. Maggie also did in a way and Derrick's gameplay is quite similar to her's. Honestly, this season is like BB6 if The Friendship had been in power the entire time IMO.

I'm still foolishly holding onto hope that 2 jury members will return. Julie specifically said one, but they change the rules all the time so who knows.

Edited August 18, 2014 by peachmangosteen

[Stinamaia]

I hope Frankie still puts Zach up. It would be stupid, and I would love that because I loathe Frankie although I have no desire to bathe in his blood.

[Cherry Cola]

Seems like Frankie was just warned about the renom rule.  He came out of DR and cuddled with Zach saying he didn't know what to do.  Oy

Good! Leave Zach alone. :) I want Derrick out so bad.

[Wings]

Donny asks Cody how they decided that Caleb's coming off the block. Cody: "That's a good question." Donny says nobody tells him anything, but doesn't it make him think. Donny recalls the time when prospective nominees were mentioned and Cody mentioned but not Caleb.

Donny: "I'm not saying you're going anywhere, but it shows you the pecking order." Asks him please not to say that he's saying this to anyone. Cody assures him that will not be the case.

 

Veto ceremony in 10 minutes

[Nashville]

I'm still foolishly holding onto hope that 2 jury members will return. Julie specifically said one, but they change the rules all the time so who knows.

It could be possible, if Production were willing to put up two DEs in the next four weeks after Thursday. Don't know how probable it would be, though.

[Wings]

Obviously Zack is going up and out.  I like that Donny got Cody's ear.  Perhaps he, Cody and the returnee can talk some sense into Victoria.  There isn't any sense to start with so it isn't like he has to clear her mind or anything. . 

Edited August 18, 2014 by wings707

[peachmangosteen]

Cody is blindly loyal to Derrick and the most useless player left. Plus, he despises Donny for some unknown reason. I'm surprised he hasn't already told his master about what Donny said. I'm proud he waited more than 2 minutes!

 

ETA: Zach got nommed and then just went to bed. Dammit, you erratic stupid asshole do something! I'm gonna be so disappointed if he doesn't have one of his fits this week. I mean, Zach, now's the time to go nuts.

Edited August 18, 2014 by peachmangosteen

[SiobhanJW]

ETA: Zach got nommed and then just went to bed. Dammit, you erratic stupid asshole do something! I'm gonna be so disappointed if he doesn't have one of his fits this week. I mean, Zach, now's the time to go nuts.

Maybe he's just napping for now and plotting his next move. ;)

[peachmangosteen]

It could be possible, if Production were willing to put up two DEs in the next four weeks after Thursday. Don't know how probable it would be, though.

 

Would they need 2 more DEs? I was thinking just 1, which is definitely possible since they had 2 in total last season. But if they need 2 more, so 3 in total for the season, I doubt they'd do it.

[SiobhanJW]

Would they need 2 more DEs? I was thinking just 1, which is definitely possible since they had 2 in total last season. But if they need 2 more, so 3 in total for the season, I doubt they'd do it.

They added an extra week. So would 2 jurors coming back be possible? I just boarded a plane so I have to turn my phone off so I can't figure it out right now. But I remember someone figuring it out when they announced the extra week and said it was possible if they follow their normal schedule.

The hamsters still don't know about the extra week right?

[peachmangosteen]

Christine said she's gonna create an email account so her fans can email her, but that she'll have Tim monitor it and delete the mean ones. Derrick replied, "He'll say, 'You had 1,000 today. I had to delete 998, but the other 2 are great!'" LOL.

 

Zach woke up and said to himself, "What should I do to sabotage everyone?" There's still hope he'll go crazy yay!

Edited August 18, 2014 by peachmangosteen

[Wings]

Cody is blindly loyal to Derrick and the most useless player left. Plus, he despises Donny for some unknown reason. I'm surprised he hasn't already told his master about what Donny said. I'm proud he waited more than 2 minutes!

 

ETA: Zach got nommed and then just went to bed. Dammit, you erratic stupid asshole do something! I'm gonna be so disappointed if he doesn't have one of his fits this week. I mean, Zach, now's the time to go nuts.

 

 

Damn, I forgot that he hated Donny.  He is is such dimwit.

[peachmangosteen]

It's embarrassing really.

 

@SiobhanJW I'm not sure about the schedule really. I read somewhere else that it's gonna be kinda messed up because of Thursday Night Football so there might not be Thursday eps towards the end. Makes it hard to figure out if they can bring 2 back. But honestly, I don't think they are since Julie actually stated 1 would come back.

 

It doesn't seem like they know yet about the extension. They weirdly don't even really discuss the possibility of someone returning. That's usually a real hot topic every season.

Edited August 18, 2014 by peachmangosteen

[Wings]

Cody just spilled to Derrick what Donny said.  Says he has always been a schemer.   Oh my.  There is no hope for this season. 

[peachmangosteen]

Did he tell Derrick? He's told Frankie and Caleb and they're still going on about it now.

 

There really is no hope!

[duskyliterati]

 

Cody just spilled to Derrick what Donny said.  Says he has always been a schemer.   Oh my.  There is no hope for this season.

Exactly!  I know folks think Donny needs to talk to folks but this is what happens when he does.  The only person who hasn't ratted out his conversation is Zach.

[Cosmocrush]

I don't really see Zach as an underdog. He has been in the alliance that's controlling the game since the beginning. He's getting evicted because he is very erratic and stupidly loyal. And because Frankie is apparently like everyone else and simply playing Derrick's game for him. But mostly it's due to his own terrible gameplay. At least he has company since everyone but Derrick is just atrocious at this game. It's quite hilarious. I wonder if Production had an idea that they would all suck? Or is it like last season when they just couldn't believe they cast like at least 4 hardcore racists?

 

I don't know if Production had an idea they would all suck at the game but I know that after the nasty hateful cast last year,  I found this cast refreshingly nice to one another overall and without any of the gross bigotry of S15.  Maybe that was the entire casting goal?  Tossing a youtube 'celebrity' in the mix was probably supposed to draw the younger crowd as well.    I think that's probably the most thought they have ever put into casting a season of BB in a long time.

 

I don't know if they intentionally handicapped the girls by casting women who had never seen the show like Britney and maybe Joey.  Or if that made any difference at all since even the girls who knew the show saw the girls getting picked off and yet had a hand in voting them out.   

 

But after watching for so many seasons it's my opinion that they just look for people who will look good on camera and fill the quota(s) of a)gay b)person of color c)over 35, etc.   

 

And now we are getting to the part of the game where the real personalities start to come out and grate and while I'll confess to not being able to do much feedwatching this summer (damn my job!) I still find this cast far superior to S15 and those vile people.  The most annoying S16 person to me is still 5x better than S15's Andy/Amanda/Aaryn, etc. I'll take dumb over hateful any day.   But yeah, it would be nice to not to have to choose. 

 

Edited to fix [most] typos. 

Edited August 18, 2014 by Cosmocrush

[Callaphera]

In the beginning of the season, I was reminded of that "rule" when Devin was HOH and running around telling everyone "I'm not saying yes, I'm not saying no, I'm saying be prepared," when talking to his potential nominees. I always think it's kinda funny how in the beginning of the season, everyone is so cautious about breaking that rule and by the fourth or fifth week, they're just casually telling people, "Yeah, you're going up." They would only dust it off and put it into use if the production's pet went up and since Frankie is safe once again...

I'm glad they didn't use that damned Renom Rule. Not only did it keep Victoria from going on the block, I'm more than ready for Zach to go. The only other thing I would have liked to see was Frankie being penalty nominated for breaking said rule, but that would never happen. There is no one I want gone more than Frankie at this point. I didn't find him funny or cute in the beginning when he was flitting around and overacting and being "cute", and I certainly don't like this new real version of Frankie. 

 

Frankie is officially on my unranked unofficial list of Most Disliked Houseguests Ever, right up there with Aaryn, Amanda, and Evel Dick. He hasn't burnt anyone or dumped a drink on anyone, he hasn't made racial comments, but I feel he deserves his place on the list. He makes me not want to turn on the feeds anymore. I haven't watched for a week now, just followed updates and this forum. He's just obnoxious, hateful, mean, and not funny. And I get very tired of him asking Zach if they can have sex already. 

This season is really testing my patience with my favourite summer show. Is it too late to kick them all out and start again?

[peachmangosteen]

I don't know if they intentionally handicapped the girls by casting women who had never seen the show like Britney and maybe Joey.  Or if that made any difference at all since even the girls who knew the show saw the girls getting picked off and yet had a hand in voting them out.

 

It actually seems like they may have tried to cast women they felt would align. A lot of them said in their pre-show interviews that they wanted to make a girls alliance and that they wanted a girl to win. The thing is though, they continually cast sexist dicks, so the women never have a chance.

Edited August 18, 2014 by peachmangosteen