S01.E02: The Mourner's Kaddish

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

And on the second day, God created The Hunters, who at the behest of Meyer brought Jonah into their tribe. The Hunters were wroth, “Nay!” They cried, “The Hunt is no place for a child!” But Jonah petitioned his worth and uncovered the dark hymns of a new enemy. Following the old woman’s death, Millie’s light shone forth upon sinister truths while a Great Evil conspired to keep them in the shadows.

Dropping on Amazon on Friday, February 21, 2020.

[ShellsandCheese]

Jonah is an idiot. An.Idiot. 

[johntfs]

Hah!  "Hans" and Gretel.  Cute, show.  Very cute.

The bits where Jonah drifts into some goofy movie ad aren't wearing thin yet.

Meanwhile, Josh Radnor packed more charm and funny into that little scene with Logan as the Hunters were leaving than he did in nine season of How I Met Your Mother.

Also, I kind of need to see Alyson Hannigan killing the shit out of Nazis on this show at some point.

[formerlyfreedom]

Okay, Jonah, dude - you cannot be all "I'm IN! I'm TOTALLY IN!" and then flake like that, man. I mean...your grandmother was murdered in cold blood, the guy who did it threw darts at you for torture, and you're going to cave to a guy tied to a piano who wants water?

But I'm also a bit disappointed that the other Hunters left Jonah alone to supervise the guy. He was clearly showing signs of softness during the torture. Which...yeah. Not pretty or fun. But MAN UP. You demanded to be in on this stuff.

I'm seriously jonesing for some of the chess pieces from the opening credits. The nun for sure!

[lucindabelle]

I must be a monster because I wouldn’t feel one ounce of regret at murdering someone who LITERALY JUST HELD ME HOSTAGE. Jonah is an idiot. Is this show asking me to pity poor music starved young Nazi? Because we know he said that just to GET pity so he could break the glass and have a weapon.

 

 

[Last Time Lord]

I’m in the middle of this episode now, but the tone is damn near giving me whiplash. 
 

One moment, we got Grindhouse movie trailers and the next there’s horrific photos and a literal BOX FULL OF TEETH PULLED FROM CHILDREN

[leighdear]

I'm having to watch this on my tablet.  I'm finding a lot of the sounds I have to instantly mute, like that ringing Jonah heard in the Temple.  Jeez, just TOO much. 

Also, when his buddies were looking for him, one of them was shouting "Hey, J-Money".  Was that even a way to address people back in the 70's?  Isn't that more the 90's?

I do love seeing Jerrika Hinton out of her Dr. Stephanie scrubs and in her FBI lady pantsuits.  She's workin' it!  

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, Last Time Lord said:

I’m in the middle of this episode now, but the tone is damn near giving me whiplash. 
 

One moment, we got Grindhouse movie trailers and the next there’s horrific photos and a literal BOX FULL OF TEETH PULLED FROM CHILDREN

I'm surprised that I'm okay with the whipsawing tone of the show. I understand much of this is an homage to Tarantino - who I don't like at all, which is all the more confusing for me since I'm hooked.  It doesn't hurt that I love the actors, every one of them. Well, maybe not Lena Olin - I'm generally not too fond of her - but who knows?

[shrewd.buddha]

21 hours ago, Last Time Lord said:

... the tone is damn near giving me whiplash. 

Yes, it is very jarring how the show leans hard into the comic book, pulp, fiction with Jonah's fantasy visions of a team of heroes with flashy intros, specific skill sets and code names. But the flashbacks to the concentration camps (with an extra layer of sadism) just feel icky and disrespectful.  

It doesn't make the revenge fantasy feel like righteous justice when two of the killings have basically been some strangers breaking into an old person's house and taking them unawares (the NASA Nazi and the music Nazi). It wasn't like the (ex- ? ) Nazi's were still actively killing. 
And who, besides this secret band of Hunters, will get any relief or satisfaction from these executions when the Nazis' past crimes are not exposed? 

I don't think I am going to make it much further in the series. The wackiness of Jonah's friends,  the quirkiness of the Hunter's characters and the 70's window dressing doesn't manage to compensate for, and is not balanced by, the in-your-face horrors of the holocaust flashbacks. 
I find myself wanting the episodes to be over. 

Edited February 24, 2020 by shrewd.buddha

[Carolina Girl]

4 minutes ago, shrewd.buddha said:

Yes, it is very jarring how the show leans hard into the comic book, pulp, fiction with Jonah's fantasy visions of a team of heroes with flashy intros, specific skill sets and code names. But the flashbacks to the concentration camps (with an extra layer of sadism) just feel icky and disrespectful.  

It doesn't make the revenge fantasy feel like righteous justice when two of the killings have basically been some strangers breaking into an old person's house and taking them unawares (the NASA Nazi and the music Nazi). It wasn't like the (ex- ? ) Nazi's were still actively killing. 
And who, besides this secret band of Hunters, will get any relief or satisfaction from these executions when the Nazis' past crimes are not exposed? 

I don't think I am going to make it much further in the series. The wackiness of Jonah's friends,  the quirkiness of the Hunter's characters and the 70's window dressing doesn't manage to compensate for, and is not balanced by, the in-your-face horrors of the holocaust flashbacks. 
I find myself wanting the episodes to be over. 

I cannot watch anything that has children hurt or killed, and the Nazis killed children in the most horrific ways possible, so I don't like watching any of the flashbacks.  But I even worry about modern-day moments, like that moment in the airplane where the mother says her child is allergic to peanuts and Nazi devil spawn immediately takes a bag.  I fast forwarded through it because I had visions of this piece of shit killing the kid somehow "accidentally" by making him go through anaphylactic shock at 30,000 feet.  

And what hostess gives a man peanuts when he's sitting next to a child with an allergy???

I don't know if I'll finish this.  I may read the forums here for the episode first.  

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, Carolina Girl said:

I cannot watch anything that has children hurt or killed, and the Nazis killed children in the most horrific ways possible, so I don't like watching any of the flashbacks.  But I even worry about modern-day moments, like that moment in the airplane where the mother says her child is allergic to peanuts and Nazi devil spawn immediately takes a bag.  I fast forwarded through it because I had visions of this piece of shit killing the kid somehow "accidentally" by making him go through anaphylactic shock at 30,000 feet.  

And what hostess gives a man peanuts when he's sitting next to a child with an allergy???

I don't know if I'll finish this.  I may read the forums here for the episode first.  

That wasn't a modern moment, the show is set in 1977, over 40 years ago. 

[leighdear]

We weren't allergic to much back in the 70's and before.  Or we just didn't know it. Maybe shellfish or strawberries.  But if so we usually were just told "Eat around them or pick them out".  

I can honestly NEVER remember a kid my age being allergic to peanuts in the 60's and 70's.  And I was 11 in 1977.  Jeez, we LIVED on PB&J sandwiches!

Edited February 24, 2020 by leighdear

[EarlGreyTea]

11 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

I don't think I am going to make it much further in the series. The wackiness of Jonah's friends,  the quirkiness of the Hunter's characters and the 70's window dressing doesn't manage to compensate for, and is not balanced by, the in-your-face horrors of the holocaust flashbacks. 
I find myself wanting the episodes to be over. 

I agree. The torture porn is getting to be too much. I really, really did not need to see that black family being tortured by the Nazi cleaner. And it doesn't seem as though the violence is going to lessen. I'll give it another episode, but I'm probably out. I don't need to see minorities being tortured. The whole premise of this damn show was supposed to be the opposite of that. I don't need to see people being tortured to set up the Big Bad and make me root for him to be taken down. He's a Nazi. I don't need more motivation than that to see him go down.

I had no idea Julissa Bermudez (the girlfriend of the FBI agent) is acting now. Seems like just yesterday she was interviewing the cast of the Jersey Shore.

Edited February 25, 2020 by EarlGreyTea

[lucindabelle]

On 2/24/2020 at 2:10 PM, leighdear said:

We weren't allergic to much back in the 70's and before.  Or we just didn't know it. Maybe shellfish or strawberries.  But if so we usually were just told "Eat around them or pick them out".  

I can honestly NEVER remember a kid my age being allergic to peanuts in the 60's and 70's.  And I was 11 in 1977.  Jeez, we LIVED on PB&J sandwiches!

Please. I’m 55 and was 12 in 1977 and was born allergic to peanuts thanks ve  try much. I found out because someone touched me with peanut butter in school. Speak for yourself.

[Carolina Girl]

On 2/24/2020 at 7:12 PM, EarlGreyTea said:

I really, really did not need to see that black family being tortured by the Nazi cleaner.

I think that's when I turned it off - permanently.   When he pointed the gun at the unborn baby. 

[shrewd.buddha]

The last straw for me may have been the reinterpretation of the Hansel and Gretel story. 
The racist recasting of the fairy tale characters was bad enough, but they completely ignored a significant part of the story: Hansel and Gretel's parents trying to abandon them in the forest, which was horrible in itself.
That was just lazy racism which made me think that this show would most likely paint every situation - past, present and fairy tale - as an example of extreme racial prejudice. 

The Truly Grim History Behind The Fairy Tale Of Hansel And Gretel

Edited February 28, 2020 by shrewd.buddha

[Shawn Plank]

After watching one episode, I call this "The Implausible Nazi Murder Show." To think there was anything other than fringe element Nazis in the 1970s (like the Illinois Nazis in "The Blues Brothers" movie) stretches credulity. But show producers seemed to really want to set this show in a recognizable era close to us chronologically. The 1970s was about as late as they could go to have German Nazis from the 1940s still alive and somewhat in their prime. It is almost as if they are saying, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if German Nazis survived and emigrated to the U.S., where they lived in the 1970s and continued to promote their Nazi idelology?" The answer is no, it wouldn't be cool and it didn't happen. Sure, you had your occasional John Demjanjuk, a concentration camp guard, who lived in the U.S., who was eventually extradited to Germany and convicted. But "The Implausible Nazi Murder Show" is a fantasy that there many, many such Demjanjuks living among us, not just hiding, but actively pursuing a "Nazi lifestyle." And like Aaron, I am troubled that they had to conjure up "new" ways that Nazis tortured and killed the Jews. Aren't the methods that were used troublesome enough? 

 

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

The last straw for me may have been the reinterpretation of the Hansel and Gretel story. 
The racist recasting of the fairy tale characters was bad enough, but they completely ignored a significant part of the story: Hansel and Gretel's parents trying to abandon them in the forest, which was horrible in itself.
That was just lazy racism which made me think that this show would most likely paint every situation - past, present and fairy tale - as an example of extreme racial prejudice. 

The Truly Grim History Behind The Fairy Tale Of Hansel And Gretel

I found it an intriguing take, despite knowing it was a complete misrepresentation of the original story. Not sure I'd call it racism much as taking something of your oppressors (the actual racists) and making it yours instead.

Appropriating folklore isn't uncommon. It is how the Catholic church operated, after all, when they took pagan lore and folded it within their own.

 

Edited February 28, 2020 by Clanstarling

[Aliferously]

The Hansel and Gretel angle just made me roll my eyes.

It took me three quarters of this episode to remember who Josh Radnor is. And he lead his own sitcom for a million seasons.

You know that there were concentration camps that had their own bands and theatre groups? They were considered as valuable prisoners and depending on where they were held, kept alive solely because they were able to compose and perform (and keep up pretenses). This wasn't a general thing, and their fates once they left that camp became equally insecure. But I don't think they were shot point blank like that. It just galled me to see those scenes.

We were shattered – until the German officers started clapping in the front rows.

The scene with the matchmaker lady, though. That just resonated with me.

Yeah, Jonah is an idiot. But so was everyone else for leaving him alone with Rockstar Nazi.

Mindy and Murray are a hoot though.

 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

I don't understand how Wagner-loving Nazi's ears were working well enough to understand the questions he was being asked right after his eardrums burst.

I was expecting them to cut off 9 of his fingers, 1 at a time, the way he shot 9 concentration camp prisoners, 1 at a time. Glad I was wrong.

Yes, Jonah, they were going to kill the Nazi anyway. Your misplaced empathy probably spared him some torture  

On 2/24/2020 at 10:25 AM, shrewd.buddha said:

It doesn't make the revenge fantasy feel like righteous justice when two of the killings have basically been some strangers breaking into an old person's house and taking them unawares (the NASA Nazi and the music Nazi). It wasn't like the (ex- ? ) Nazi's were still actively killing. 

The musical Nazi was relaying coded messages to other Nazis. The chemist was individually responsible for implementing a huge portion of The Final Solution, and was living a sweet life, with a fridge full of cake and pies, waiting to die from old age. I assume the big "twist" is that the US government  brought her and her sadistic pediatrician brother over so that she could work  for the USA.

On 2/24/2020 at 2:10 PM, leighdear said:

We weren't allergic to much back in the 70's and before.  Or we just didn't know it. Maybe shellfish or strawberries.  But if so we usually were just told "Eat around them or pick them out".  

I can honestly NEVER remember a kid my age being allergic to peanuts in the 60's and 70's.  And I was 11 in 1977.  Jeez, we LIVED on PB&J sandwiches!

I don't want to say that that sounds like something a certain TV Nazi would say, but . . ..

On 2/24/2020 at 10:34 AM, Carolina Girl said:

I cannot watch anything that has children hurt or killed, and the Nazis killed children in the most horrific ways possible, so I don't like watching any of the flashbacks.  But I even worry about modern-day moments, like that moment in the airplane where the mother says her child is allergic to peanuts and Nazi devil spawn immediately takes a bag.  I fast forwarded through it because I had visions of this piece of shit killing the kid somehow "accidentally" by making him go through anaphylactic shock at 30,000 feet.   

Yes, I was worried that would happen, too. I can't understand why the mother didn't at least switch seats with her son.

Edited March 4, 2020 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ItCouldBeWorse]

So what did Mindy mean when she said 4 year-old Jonah looked just like 'him"? I don't think she'd say it about a Nazi, but Jonah also never said anything about his father, so I guess his parentage will be a plot twist.

"Cute as a kugel" is not an expression, just an excuse to throw in a Yiddish word   Nor is "cut to the liver", which makes no sense at all. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Clanstarling]

7 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

So what did Mindy mean when she said 4 year-old Jonah looked just like 'him"? I don't think she'd say it about a Nazi, but Jonah also never said anything about his father, so I guess his parentage will be a plot twist.

"Cute as a kugel" is not an expression, just an excuse to throw in a Yiddish word   Nor is "cut to the liver", which makes no se sense at all. 

I don't know if they're real expressions - but I do know that the Austrian expressions my mother would translate into English often made no sense at all. The challenges of  translating word for word vs translating meaning. So between Yiddish and Polish (I think that's where they were from) and English as a third language, all sorts of wires could be crossed to come up the mangled expressions.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Clanstarling

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I loved the way they introduced all of the other hunters - very kitschy.

Ha, Wally World shout out!

One thing I really like about this show being set in the 70s is that it shows what actual research used to take (as opposed to today when you can google or search databases).

I was so nervous when Millie started going through Hans' stuff. I just knew it was a matter of time before Frannie caught her. It wasn't the smartest thing, but it made me laugh that when she did get caught, she didn't even try to come up with an excuse.

Despite Jonah immediately wanting to join the hunters in the previous episode, I knew he wasn't ready to actually go out on a mission. Of course, he's the green one so they shouldn't have left him alone with Holstedder. There were seven other adults who should have known better than to leave him with a war criminal.

[Annamz]

On 2/26/2020 at 7:35 PM, lucindabelle said:

Please. I’m 55 and was 12 in 1977 and was born allergic to peanuts thanks ve  try much. I found out because someone touched me with peanut butter in school. Speak for yourself.

Aww that's horrible!!

I think it's most likely the fact that the internet wasn't around and we didn't know everyone's business like we do now. Nowadays you see certain allergies I didn't even know existed or would know anyone with them if it wasn't for social media.

On 3/3/2020 at 7:14 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I loved the way they introduced all of the other hunters - very kitschy.

Ha, Wally World shout out!

One thing I really like about this show being set in the 70s is that it shows what actual research used to take (as opposed to today when you can google or search databases).

I was so nervous when Millie started going through Hans' stuff. I just knew it was a matter of time before Frannie caught her. It wasn't the smartest thing, but it made me laugh that when she did get caught, she didn't even try to come up with an excuse.

Despite Jonah immediately wanting to join the hunters in the previous episode, I knew he wasn't ready to actually go out on a mission. Of course, he's the green one so they shouldn't have left him alone with Holstedder. There were seven other adults who should have known better than to leave him with a war criminal.

I loved hearing Wally World!!! I love the show too. I can see why it would be too intense for some viewers but it's got me hooked. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's enjoying this show.

[Pike Ludwell]

Yeah Jonah annoys the hell out of me too. What a pathetic lead character. Someone no one likes or respects.  And then they throw in gratuitous vomiting scenes right and left. If there is any annoying practice Hollywood weirdly loves these days they throw it in. And the scenes where Pacino has his face right up to Jonah's, like two inches away talking intently at him, and his hands on his face. .. That is odd to me. 

Edited March 10, 2020 by Pike Ludwell

[EarlGreyTea]

19 hours ago, Pike Ludwell said:

Yeah Jonah annoys the hell out of me too. What a pathetic lead character. Someone no one likes or respects.  And then they throw in gratuitous vomiting scenes right and left. If there is any annoying practice Hollywood weirdly loves these days they throw it in. And the scenes where Pacino has his face right up to Jonah's, like two inches away talking intently at him, and his hands on his face. .. That is odd to me. 

See,  I agree he's infuriatingly green and naive and fucks a lot of things up for the Hunters, but there is something about Lerman that appeals to me. He oozes vulnerability and decency. I don't know if Lerman's putting it on or if he's naturally like that, but it works for the character and helps to keep the audience from outright disliking him - or it did for me. Because it's clear to me that the character is a decent human being. It must be the scared doe eyes. 

Although I will say the constant cussing is distracting because of the aforementioned air of vulnerability. I felt that was a missed beat.

[AriAu]

Quote

Although I will say the constant cussing is distracting because of the aforementioned air of vulnerability. I felt that was a missed beat.

Not that I know from personal experience or anything, but an 18 year old in 1977 (as did a 16 year old) swore a lot because he thought it made him appear older and often swore at the most inappropriate moments. Just sayin. There are plenty of things that bother me about the character, but to me, that felt sorta right

[EarlGreyTea]

7 minutes ago, AriAu said:

Not that I know from personal experience or anything, but an 18 year old in 1977 (as did a 16 year old) swore a lot because he thought it made him appear older and often swore at the most inappropriate moments. Just sayin. There are plenty of things that bother me about the character, but to me, that felt sorta right

What a great point. And it makes a lot of sense and fits with what we learn about Jonah.

[Pike Ludwell]

On 3/10/2020 at 7:50 PM, EarlGreyTea said:

See,  I agree he's infuriatingly green and naive and fucks a lot of things up for the Hunters, but there is something about Lerman that appeals to me. He oozes vulnerability and decency. I don't know if Lerman's putting it on or if he's naturally like that, but it works for the character and helps to keep the audience from outright disliking him - or it did for me. Because it's clear to me that the character is a decent human being. It must be the scared doe eyes. 

Although I will say the constant cussing is distracting because of the aforementioned air of vulnerability. I felt that was a missed beat.

What especially bugged me was at the end he needed to say a prayer for the A-H Nazi they just killed. That's a sort of "goodness" that really annoys me, and it is the reason he's nearly gotten himself killed and effed things up for the team. Suppose someone needed to say a prayer for Hitler when he died ... their thinking is really askew.  Despite all the time the Pacino character took to explain things to him, it still hasn't sunk in. He should be on the team from now on only in the capacity of breaking codes.

[SunnyBeBe]

I’m late to the party and just watched this second episode. I’m rather annoyed because I dislike this young guy so much.  Why make him such an idiot? He seems to be incompetent at everything he attempts to do, based on what I’ve seen so far.  It detracts from the show. I might give it one more episode. I wanted to like it, since I’m a huge Pacino fan. 

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I’m late to the party and just watched this second episode. I’m rather annoyed because I dislike this young guy so much.  Why make him such an idiot? He seems to be incompetent at everything he attempts to do, based on what I’ve seen so far.  It detracts from the show. I might give it one more episode. I wanted to like it, since I’m a huge Pacino fan. 

Well, he's a teenager, right? They're often idiots (at least on tv). If I recall correctly, you and I watched a show with a most annoying teenager (Paige, anyone?).

But yeah, it does grate sometimes.

[SunnyBeBe]

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Well, he's a teenager, right? They're often idiots (at least on tv). If I recall correctly, you and I watched a show with a most annoying teenager (Paige, anyone?).

But yeah, it does grate sometimes.

HEY THERE!  You got that right!  He's not quite as bad as her.....yet!  lol

[NopeX]

On 2/24/2020 at 12:10 PM, leighdear said:

We weren't allergic to much back in the 70's and before.  Or we just didn't know it. Maybe shellfish or strawberries.  But if so we usually were just told "Eat around them or pick them out".  

I can honestly NEVER remember a kid my age being allergic to peanuts in the 60's and 70's.  And I was 11 in 1977.  Jeez, we LIVED on PB&J sandwiches!

My sister has a peanut allergy and she was born in 1970, so yes, that allergy was around in the 70s. 

[Kel Varnsen]

I just started watching this show and it is good, but it is annoying that they always feel the need to make "prestige" streaming dramas have such long episodes. It seems like they are trying to prove some point about how they don't need to tied down to 42 minutes, but an hour long made this show drag a bit. If they cut it down by like 10 minutes it could have been a lot more exciting.

On 3/3/2020 at 8:14 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

One thing I really like about this show being set in the 70s is that it shows what actual research used to take (as opposed to today when you can google or search databases).

One interesting thing I find about this show being set in the 70s is how if a person murdered someone they had no connection to and there were no witnesses (or even if there was) they were stood a good chance of getting away with it. Especially if they had no criminal record.

[Ottis]

This show is ridiculous. The hunters are neither scary nor intimidating. The young Nazi assassin is the only scary character in this show. A former Nazi who keeps camp photos and teeth in an unlocked drawer? This would be way more impactful without the 300-style theatrics. There are parts that are quite good. I would have liked preferred more reality and less silliness.

[dubbel zout]

On 2/21/2020 at 1:55 PM, johntfs said:

Meanwhile, Josh Radnor packed more charm and funny into that little scene with Logan as the Hunters were leaving than he did in nine season of How I Met Your Mother.

What exactly does Lonny Flash bring to the table here? Wouldn't a recognizable actor be more of a hindrance than a help?

On 2/21/2020 at 10:31 PM, saoirse said:

Okay, Jonah, dude - you cannot be all "I'm IN! I'm TOTALLY IN!" and then flake like that, man. I mean...your grandmother was murdered in cold blood, the guy who did it threw darts at you for torture, and you're going to cave to a guy tied to a piano who wants water?

Seriously. How many times does he have to come thisclose to being killed by a Nazi? It's not as if Meyer glossed over the fact that the goal of the Hunters was to kill Nazis.

On 5/2/2020 at 8:31 PM, NopeX said:

My sister has a peanut allergy and she was born in 1970, so yes, that allergy was around in the 70s. 

I think the point trying to be made is that the accommodations around peanut allergies weren't as widespread as they are today.