S15.E11: The Gambler

[Smad]

Just reading through this thread makes me feel like I'm losing brain cells. So glad I'm not actually watching.

So Jack is trying to get powerful enough to kill God? How would that EVER be possible? God is a primordial being out of which everything else was/is made. Jack and whatever he consumes are already made out of Chuck and therefor part of Chuck. He could consume the entire planet and it still wouldn't be enough to take on God.

And lets not forget that Dean was once loaded with something like 200k souls and Chuck simply absorbed them. Supposedly there are only 20 Angels left or whatever. So Jack can't ever get enough power AT ALL that God can't just simply take (because it's his own power due to being his creation DUH). And as someone mentioned, the combined power of Heaven couldn't even scratch Amara and back then there used to be more Angels around.

This is so effing stupid...I just can't.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Smad

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Well...it was better than whatever the hell last week was at least. 

I will start with what I liked. The guys being able to hustle pool like nobody's business was great to see after last weeks bizarre "hahah, they cant even walk straight without Chuck!" bullshit, and the set up itself was fun and interesting. As inconsistent as they are portrayed in their origin and levels of power, I do always like seeing the pagan gods (and their saltiness towards big G God) and Fortuna was pretty cool as an antagonist, and one that actually has a bit of integrity, letting the luck junkies go and giving Sam and Dean their luck because she was impressed by their chutzpah. It seems very in line with the classic mythology she references, where the hero impresses the goddess with their strength of spirit instead of physical strength and blesses them with her favor. that was all pretty good. The luck dealing pool hall was a cool idea, and I like that, when Sam and Dean figured out what was going on, they tried to help the people inside as much as they could. Thats what makes them heroes and one of the points of their whole quest against Chuck, they care about the random victims of these gods and monsters who only see them as pawns, and will risk it all to save some random barflies they dont know, thats what I like to see. 

On the other hand, I just dont care that much about Jack. I didnt hate Jack the way a lot of people did, but I didnt like the way he seemed to take over the show away from the actual main characters, and now that he is on his own quest to kill Chuck, I guess we get to look forward to more of that. Oh joy. As for Dean forgiving him so easily, I guess not having a soul is a decent enough excuse for killing your absentee mom by accident. What a weird freaking situation, and the framing is even weirder. Its a complicated emotional situation where everyone has understandable reasons for being upset or defensive, but all we got was "Dean is being a jerk and should forgive everyone immediately even if he lost his mom due to bad choices and things out of their control." 

The "Your better than me at everything" line was, sadly, in character for Dean, considering he has insanely low self esteem and always sees Sam as the best person ever who he is responsible for, but the narrative trying to back this up as truth and not just Deans issues is stupid and offensive. I have no idea why this show so often tries to push this idea that Dean is always lesser to Sam, when its so obviously not true.

Sorry for the big quote,  my phone won't let me highlight outside the editor. Re the bolded:

See that's the thing,I MO. It wasn't an accident. He knew he was making choices that were questionable, starting with stabbing the town girl. Mary explained to him that he was doing questionable things. He killed her in a fit of anger because he didn't want to hear what she was saying, but still knew enough to get the fuck out of town immediately after. The only thing he regretted was that the guys would be mad at him. I could accept Dean not killing him on Chuck's orders, but to just welcome him back is ridiculous, especially when he's already doing questionable things again.

[Harleycat]

10 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Sorry for the big quote,  my phone won't let me highlight outside the editor. Re the bolded:

See that's the thing,I MO. It wasn't an accident. He knew he was making choices that were questionable, starting with stabbing the town girl. Mary explained to him that he was doing questionable things. He killed her in a fit of anger because he didn't want to hear what she was saying, but still knew enough to get the fuck out of town immediately after. The only thing he regretted was that the guys would be mad at him. I could accept Dean not killing him on Chuck's orders, but to just welcome him back is ridiculous, especially when he's already doing questionable things again.

The big hug from Sam was weird. The head grab and the meaningful look at Cas from Dean was less weird, but still odd. I hope the guys don't leave Jack alone with Cas if he's eating angel hearts, but whatever, I guess they would forgive Jack for killing Cas too with how things are going.

[FlickChick]

21 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Sorry for the big quote,  my phone won't let me highlight outside the editor. Re the bolded:

See that's the thing,I MO. It wasn't an accident. He knew he was making choices that were questionable, starting with stabbing the town girl. Mary explained to him that he was doing questionable things. He killed her in a fit of anger because he didn't want to hear what she was saying, but still knew enough to get the fuck out of town immediately after. The only thing he regretted was that the guys would be mad at him. I could accept Dean not killing him on Chuck's orders, but to just welcome him back is ridiculous, especially when he's already doing questionable things again.

I'm not sure that Dean is really "welcoming" Jack back. We didn't see Dean hug Jack, just sort of check to see if he thought he was the "real" Jack. Later, at the table, he didn't seem very happy - just listening to what Jack said. I would love it if they used the "friends close, enemies closer" thing with Dean and Jack, but then I'm not drunk enough at this hour to honestly believe that they would actually tell that story.

[Ray Adverb]

I'm a little hung up on the geography of this episode.  Last week, Garth said they were looking for a place in Alaska, between Kotzebue and Barrow.  Neither of these places is accessible by car.  Basically the only way to get there by land is walking, dog sled, or a rolligon.  A heavy duty off road truck, Jeep, or SUV couldn't get there, much less some tiny Impala.  I guess maybe the writers had a vague idea that these places were remote, but had not actually looked at a map.

[Katy M]

23 minutes ago, Harleycat said:

The big hug from Sam was weird. The head grab and the meaningful look at Cas from Dean was less weird, but still odd. I hope the guys don't leave Jack alone with Cas if he's eating angel hearts, but whatever, I guess they would forgive Jack for killing Cas too with how things are going.

If Cas knows he's eating angel hearts and chooses to hang with him and Jack eats his heart, that's all on Cas.

1 hour ago, Smad said:

So Jack is trying to get powerful enough to kill God? How would that EVER be possible? God is a primordial being out of which everything else was/is made. Jack and whatever he consumes are already made out of Chuck and therefor part of Chuck. He could consume the entire planet and it still wouldn't be enough to take on God.

Eve created the monsters and phoenix ash killed her.   Actually, we know from Alpha and Omega that a soul bomb would kill him.  

Edited February 1, 2020 by Katy M

[FlickChick]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

   Actually, we know from Alpha and Omega that a soul bomb would kill him.  
 

Yes, and we also know that the balance in the universe has to have either BOTH of them or NEITHER of them. And technically, we never really saw that the soul bomb would kill Amara as they settled their differences and went off peacefully after she cured God. So in short, no one should be supporting Jack killing God - because that only leaves Darkness in the world and the balance would be off.

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

 So in short, no one should be supporting Jack killing God - because that only leaves Darkness in the world and the balance would be off.

Exactly.  I've been saying that all along.

[Castiels Cat]

1 hour ago, FlickChick said:

Yes, and we also know that the balance in the universe has to have either BOTH of them or NEITHER of them. And technically, we never really saw that the soul bomb would kill Amara as they settled their differences and went off peacefully after she cured God. So in short, no one should be supporting Jack killing God - because that only leaves Darkness in the world and the balance would be off.

Taking Response to BvJ...

 

 

[Castiels Cat]

3 hours ago, FlickChick said:

I'm not sure that Dean is really "welcoming" Jack back. We didn't see Dean hug Jack, just sort of check to see if he thought he was the "real" Jack. Later, at the table, he didn't seem very happy - just listening to what Jack said. I would love it if they used the "friends close, enemies closer" thing with Dean and Jack, but then I'm not drunk enough at this hour to honestly believe that they would actually tell that story.

The eating angel hearts at Death's request sounds a lot like what he was doing for "heaven" before he went nuclear and Chuck showed up. It doesn't sound good and it doesn't sound like free will.

[Castiels Cat]

5 hours ago, Smad said:

Just reading through this thread makes me feel like I'm losing brain cells. So glad I'm not actually watching.

So Jack is trying to get powerful enough to kill God? How would that EVER be possible? God is a primordial being out of which everything else was/is made. Jack and whatever he consumes are already made out of Chuck and therefor part of Chuck. He could consume the entire planet and it still wouldn't be enough to take on God.

And lets not forget that Dean was once loaded with something like 200k souls and Chuck simply absorbed them. Supposedly there are only 20 Angels left or whatever. So Jack can't ever get enough power AT ALL that God can't just simply take (because it's his own power due to being his creation DUH). And as someone mentioned, the combined power of Heaven couldn't even scratch Amara and back then there used to be more Angels around.

This is so effing stupid...I just can't.

Taking to BvJ...

[Smad]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

Actually, we know from Alpha and Omega that a soul bomb would kill him.

Actually we don't. Since the bomb never actually went off. Before then, Chuck's reaction to the possibility of killing Amara with the bomb was 'not sure, maybe, I don't know, could be'. So even he wasn't sure.

 

2 hours ago, FlickChick said:

So in short, no one should be supporting Jack killing God - because that only leaves Darkness in the world and the balance would be off.

That's incorrect. Killing God would literally destroy the Multiverse (Prime-verse was dying in S11), Darkness included (Amara told she would be dying too). It's more correct to say the only thing left would be Nothingness aka The Empty.

Edited February 2, 2020 by Smad

[SueB]

1 hour ago, Smad said:

Actually we don't. Since the bomb never actually went off. Before then, Chuck's reaction to the possibility of killing Amara with the bomb was 'not sure, maybe, I don't know, could be'. So even he wasn't sure.

 

That's incorrect. Killing God would literally destroy the Multiverse (Prime-verse was dying in S11), Darkness included (Amara told she would be dying too). It's more correct to say the only thing left would be Nothingness aka The Empty.

I've always likened "The Empty" to entropy.  

[Harleycat]

6 hours ago, FlickChick said:

I'm not sure that Dean is really "welcoming" Jack back. We didn't see Dean hug Jack, just sort of check to see if he thought he was the "real" Jack. Later, at the table, he didn't seem very happy - just listening to what Jack said. I would love it if they used the "friends close, enemies closer" thing with Dean and Jack, but then I'm not drunk enough at this hour to honestly believe that they would actually tell that story.

Maybe it goes back to them playing Jack, with Sam being the one who is always in Jack's corner and Dean being able to observe and get a read on the situation before making decisions. Which goes back to Jack's father and the angels being right, that Jack is just a job to the Winchesters.

[Castiels Cat]

21 hours ago, SueB said:

I've always likened "The Empty" to entropy.  

So is the "Billie" that is giving Jack orders actually The Empty? 

I missed the first ten minutes and now am thinking I need to see Billie and Jack in the Empty.

The previous post did jog my memory. The world was dying and darkening because Chuck was dying. Killing him is not an option despite Billie's orders to Jack. And Jack following gruesome orders is just scary and reminiscent of the last time he went gonzo.

Will Jack have to eat his heart to become godlike.

This is so...

Edited February 3, 2020 by Castiels Cat

[7kstar]

4 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

The previous post did jog my memory. The world was dying and darkening because Chuck was dying. Killing him is not an option despite Billie's orders to Jack. And Jack following gruesome orders is just scary and reminiscent of the last time he went gonzo.

Will Jack have to eat his heart to become godlike.

This is so...

How many times have they done something on the show and totally ignored what should mean.  They can't even agree from one ep to another whether the Winchesters had lost their hero powers due to Chuck, or if they had a very bad luck.  What moment they will choose to make a sticking point won't even be worth the effort to figure out what they will do next.

Thinking too deeply about the show just makes your head hurt, IMO.  Jack hasn't had to own up to his actions, before.  I doubt they will make him do it now.

Now I wouldn't mind seeing the Winchester arguing with Billie because I do like their chemistry.  She is a fun character to hate, for me.  Not a spoiler, just a wish.

[Female83]

What happened to Lucifer? At the end of season 14 Billie tells Jack they need to talk and there is a shot of the angel smiling at his son. In this ep Jack doesn't mention his  dad.  I liked how the boys had their luck turned around but hate the whole killing Chuck thing. 

 

 

[trudysmom]

On 2/1/2020 at 7:11 PM, Castiels Cat said:

The eating angel hearts at Death's request sounds a lot like what he was doing for "heaven" before he went nuclear and Chuck showed up.

And before that he was doing whatever he was told by Dean or Sam or Cas or whoever.  The character seems shallow to me because he is shallow. He has been afforded no growth, no personality of his own beyond the Winchesters as family thing.  As much as I hated Amara and that whole storyline I'd rather she be the one who turns up to help, not this man-baby who is so robotic and must be coddled and protected at every turn. 

One thing I did like on re-watch, was Fortuna's explanation of other gods.  "You made us, you humans".  That was actually a pretty well thought out monologue.  It tied back to Chuck as God, showing even way back then he was a egomaniacal dick who only cared about a good story. I doubt Dabb wrote it though, I won't give him credit.

[Bali]

On 1/30/2020 at 9:39 PM, Katy M said:

But, he technically didn't.  Dean never lost a game of pool.  Sam did.  And when it counted.  It was only because she decided to honor the lost bet (because of both of them) that they "won."

Yes, she offered that.  But, Sam turned it down to get the lives of the bar people instead.

OK- wait a minute. I thought Dean was the one that said something to the effect of "I care about them" regarding the other players. I actually thought both brothers said they are the ones who care about the ordinary people. That made her liken them to the heroes of old. And that made her give them their luck back and set the people free. Was it Sam or Dean who said that? Because THAT is what won the game.

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, Bali said:

actually thought both brothers said they are the ones who care about the ordinary people. That made her liken them to the heroes of old. And that made her give them their luck back and set the people free. Was it Sam or Dean who said that? Because THAT is what won the game.

I think they both said it.  Sam was the one who countered with the bet because he was the one that she was playing.  But, yes, I agree that they were both heroes and both convinced her and I believe I said that upthread somewhere where someone else disagreed with me.

7 hours ago, Female83 said:

What happened to Lucifer? At the end of season 14 Billie tells Jack they need to talk and there is a shot of the angel smiling at his son. In this ep Jack doesn't mention his  dad.  I liked how the boys had their luck turned around but hate the whole killing Chuck thing. 

 

 

I don't think that it's been positively established that smiley dude is Lucifer.   It could also be The Empty guy. Or it could really be any dead angel or demon.  Heck, it could even be original Death.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Katy M

[Aeryn13]

2 minutes ago, Bali said:

OK- wait a minute. I thought Dean was the one that said something to the effect of "I care about them" regarding the other players. I actually thought both brothers said they are the ones who care about the ordinary people. That made her liken them to the heroes of old. And that made her give them their luck back and set the people free. Was it Sam or Dean who said that? Because THAT is what won the game.

Sam was the one who made up that bet. And he was the one who said "they matter to me". Dean tacked on with "they matter to us" but Sam gave the hero speech.

[gonzosgirrl]

9 minutes ago, Bali said:

OK- wait a minute. I thought Dean was the one that said something to the effect of "I care about them" regarding the other players. I actually thought both brothers said they are the ones who care about the ordinary people. That made her liken them to the heroes of old. And that made her give them their luck back and set the people free. Was it Sam or Dean who said that? Because THAT is what won the game.

Sam said "Me".  Dean said "Us".

I said, "uhhuh".

eta:

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by gonzosgirrl
Not I and We.

[Bali]

OK- some thoughts. First of all- English majors are the only ones who would take Tolstoy over a Beach Read. Beach Reads sell millions of copies, get made into paperbacks, and no one has to figure out why the curtains in the room are blue. They are just blue. Being called a beach read is a compliment to me. They are much more popular and let's face it, while Dean has depth, he doesn't hide that depth. I'm also on the side of Fortuna can't guarantee that she'll beat Dean. 

They are BOTH heroes in this story. Sam would have never gone to the place in the first place. Now, she's closed up shop. Dean will always be a hero, no matter what this show tries to do to him. And he did work to distract her. He did say that UpChuck cursed them. And he would have beat her.

And sorry, Castiels Cat, there is NO Billie and Jack in the first ten minutes of the episode. So, there are no answers to the questions you seek. 

[catrox14]

Instill dislike what Dabb  et al are doing to the guys, and this episode still implies  that Dean and Sam only have their skills by virtue of a god giving luck back. The narrative is still ignoring the learned behaviors and skills (over 20 years in Dean's case) that made them good at hunting, etc.

I thought last night that maybe the boys should approach Chuck as if he is a tulpa. Like maybe if they just decide he doesn't exist, and ignore him, he'll just fade away.

[ahrtee]

7 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I thought last night that maybe the boys should approach Chuck as if he is a tulpa. Like maybe if they just decide he doesn't exist, and ignore him, he'll just fade away.

Nah--that only works with pagan gods, because people created them, not vice-versa, so they get their strength from people's belief/worship.  *shrugs* Worth a try, though. 😁

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, ahrtee said:

Nah--that only works with pagan gods, because people created them, not vice-versa, so they get their strength from people's belief/worship.  *shrugs* Worth a try, though. 😁

I don't recollect the show lore specifically saying it only applied to pagan gods. It's a thought form, and it exists because someone believed it existed IIRC. And Canon means nothing, so why not indeed.

[Bali]

Totally Off topic- but one time, a friend took me out and got me drunk. I made Dean's trick shot. Stone cold sober- I can not make that shot. I can barely play. I will not be going to Fortuna's joint when Jack becomes God. And eww- I just threw up in my mouth a little at that thought.

[PAForrest]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Sam said "Me".  Dean said "Us".

I said, "uhhuh".

eta:

 

Yeah, Sam's stock plummets when the writers pull this kind of narcissistic shit. Sam should know after all this freaking time that he and Dean are a team, and Dean would stand with him on this point.

So, yeah, uh-huh, that pissed me off too. But like I said, these writers score no points for their favorites when they write dialog like this.

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Instill dislike what Dabb  et al are doing to the guys, and this episode still implies  that Dean and Sam only have their skills by virtue of a god giving luck back. The narrative is still ignoring the learned behaviors and skills (over 20 years in Dean's case) that made them good at hunting, etc.

ITA. Nothing in this episode made it clear that Dean and Sam are who they are because of how they grew up, what they learned, the skills they mastered. And that's crap.

[Lemuria]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Sam said "Me".  Dean said "Us".

I said, "uhhuh".

I know--and I wish I thought the writers on this show recognized that something like that detracts from Sam as a character but I don't.  I don't think they have a clue why something like that makes Sam look bad, amidst all the other speechifying.

The former bartender was looking directly at Dean when she said that Fortuna did it because of "you."  I don't believe she meant only Dean; I mention this because, as unhappy as I was with some things in this ep, I disagree with some posts that suggest that the bartender--and therefore, Fortuna--was only talking about Sam.  (I also liked that immediately after the defeat, we didn't see any evidence of Dean giving up.  Yay! for that.)

Speaking of that last game, whose brilliant idea was it to let the Goddes of--you know--Luck have the first go at the table?  You were pre-law, Sam.  You didn't think to make it part of the deal that you get to have the first shot?

I do think this episode was an attempt to fix some of last week's nonsense, basically going with the "They were cursed with bad luck specifically designed to negate their abilities" theory. That doesn't mean they pulled it off anywhere nearly as well as they needed to, does it?

Edited February 3, 2020 by Lemuria

[Bali]

UGGG!!! I just figured it out. They DO kill UpChuck. It DOES destroy everything, but the all powerful Jack. Jack recreates everything the way he think it should be. UGG. Yucka Yuck.

[Aeryn13]

21 minutes ago, Bali said:

UGGG!!! I just figured it out. They DO kill UpChuck. It DOES destroy everything, but the all powerful Jack. Jack recreates everything the way he think it should be. UGG. Yucka Yuck.

"Crisis on Infinite Earths" just called - they want their plotline back.   

[Lemuria]

3 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

"Crisis on Infinite Earths" just called - they want their plotline back.   

If Dean gets to be Oliver Queen in the finale, I'll fight to keep the plotline. 😋

[SueB]

17 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

So is the "Billie" that is giving Jack orders actually The Empty? 

I don't think so.  I think "Billie" is Billie. 

I think Billie is likely offended by how much Chuck is breaking is OWN rules.  Billie wants to keep her hands clean but can't because Chuck is cheating.  But I don't think that means Billie is completely trustworthy.  I think she's getting past her dislike of Sam and Dean but she's not beyond using them (or Jack) to get what she wants.  Until we are confident in Billie's motivations, we don't know if she and the Boy's objectives are the same.  Eating bad-angel hearts is hella sketchy.  She's got some 'splaining to do. 

 

As for the Empty, I was talking more about it's nature than motivation.  I think The Empty is the inevitable resting place of the universe when there is no Chuck nor Amara.  I don't think the Empty is a good guy.  He's definitely grouchy when woke. 

[FlickChick]

5 hours ago, Bali said:

UGGG!!! I just figured it out. They DO kill UpChuck. It DOES destroy everything, but the all powerful Jack. Jack recreates everything the way he think it should be. UGG. Yucka Yuck.

I hope with everything in me that you are wrong, but sad to say, you may be right on target. That would satisfy two things we've seen - Jack's view of "Paradise on Earth" that Castiel believes in, and our S15 title card which often foreshadows the finale (or at least the theme of the season). If that is the ending, I could see why Jensen wouldn't like it - Dean doesn't want a "memorex" life. Yuck indeed.

[ILoveReading]

5 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

I hope with everything in me that you are wrong, but sad to say, you may be right on target. That would satisfy two things we've seen - Jack's view of "Paradise on Earth" that Castiel believes in, and our S15 title card which often foreshadows the finale (or at least the theme of the season). If that is the ending, I could see why Jensen wouldn't like it - Dean doesn't want a "memorex" life. Yuck indeed.

Yuck, which probably means this is exactly what happens. 

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by ILoveReading

[gonzosgirrl]

14 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

I hope with everything in me that you are wrong, but sad to say, you may be right on target. That would satisfy two things we've seen - Jack's view of "Paradise on Earth" that Castiel believes in, and our S15 title card which often foreshadows the finale (or at least the theme of the season). If that is the ending, I could see why Jensen wouldn't like it - Dean doesn't want a "memorex" life. Yuck indeed.

Going to Supernatural ending.

[Female83]

17 hours ago, Katy M said:

I think they both said it.  Sam was the one who countered with the bet because he was the one that she was playing.  But, yes, I agree that they were both heroes and both convinced her and I believe I said that upthread somewhere where someone else disagreed with me.

I don't think that it's been positively established that smiley dude is Lucifer.   It could also be The Empty guy. Or it could really be any dead angel or demon.  Heck, it could even be original Death.

I think it is Lucifer. 

Spoiler

Last season Nick wakes him up from the Empty, almost is used by him as a vessel but Jack stops him.

At the end of that ep he had the glowy red eyes. 

[Katy M]

3 hours ago, Female83 said:

I think it is Lucifer. 

I think it's Lucifer, too.  LIke you said, red eyes.  Just saying that they have not concretely established that.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I think it's Lucifer, too.  LIke you said, red eyes.  Just saying that they have not concretely established that.

Red eyes, and the fact I doubt there is any chance at all that BuckLemming will resist bringing Mark P back one last time.

[Bali]

20 hours ago, Bali said:

UGGG!!! I just figured it out. They DO kill UpChuck. It DOES destroy everything, but the all powerful Jack. Jack recreates everything the way he think it should be. UGG. Yucka Yuck.

This is FULL ON conjecture, I have nothing by my "What could be the worst thing" opinion to base this on. 

And yeah, if they can force Lucifer down our throats one last time, they will.

[Castiels Cat]

On 2/3/2020 at 10:11 AM, Bali said:

OK- some thoughts. First of all- English majors are the only ones who would take Tolstoy over a Beach Read. Beach Reads sell millions of copies, get made into paperbacks, and no one has to figure out why the curtains in the room are blue. They are just blue. Being called a beach read is a compliment to me. They are much more popular and let's face it, while Dean has depth, he doesn't hide that depth. I'm also on the side of Fortuna can't guarantee that she'll beat Dean. 

They are BOTH heroes in this story. Sam would have never gone to the place in the first place. Now, she's closed up shop. Dean will always be a hero, no matter what this show tries to do to him. And he did work to distract her. He did say that UpChuck cursed them. And he would have beat her.

And sorry, Castiels Cat, there is NO Billie and Jack in the first ten minutes of the episode. So, there are no answers to the questions you seek. 

Well what happened... was it just broke and run down Sam and Dean...

[Castiels Cat]

On 2/3/2020 at 2:18 AM, Female83 said:

What happened to Lucifer? At the end of season 14 Billie tells Jack they need to talk and there is a shot of the angel smiling at his son. In this ep Jack doesn't mention his  dad.  I liked how the boys had their luck turned around but hate the whole killing Chuck thing. 

 

 

Wasn't that the Empty.

[Bali]

33 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

Well what happened... was it just broke and run down Sam and Dean...

yep. It started with them in the truck, going in, trying to get someone involved in a game. Cas took a phone call after seeing a note that said, "Gone to Alaska" on the desk in the bunker. The call was the local sheriff calling the feds about a "person of interest" or some such non-sense. I think Jack was first seen on video surveillance or actually killing the other grimoli that wasn't the doctor.

[Castiels Cat]

On 2/4/2020 at 3:46 PM, Bali said:

yep. It started with them in the truck, going in, trying to get someone involved in a game. Cas took a phone call after seeing a note that said, "Gone to Alaska" on the desk in the bunker. The call was the local sheriff calling the feds about a "person of interest" or some such non-sense. I think Jack was first seen on video surveillance or actually killing the other grimoli that wasn't the doctor.

Thx

[bettername2come]

"You're better than me at pretty much everything." Bullshit. And all they had to do was say "You're better than me at a lot of things," or "You know research, I know pool."

"Lady, I'm Tolstoy" was a good line. And, you know, Dean knows who Tolstoy is. Having said that, I've never read Tolstoy and am now thinking of Gilmore Girls Dean complaining about how Anna Karenina throws herself in front of a train as Rory tries to get him to read it again and like it. But I digress...

I loved seeing Jack and his dads reunite. I like Jack just fine when he's not mad with power. But Jack the All-Powerful is not something I'm into. And I think their plan is stupid. But now I can't help but think they're totally going to go with killing God and making Jack the new Light to Amara's Darkness and I all I wanted from this season was to lock up Chuck with the help of all the random people they've saved over the last 15 years including some grown up versions of children they've saved who're now heroes themselves. Sigh

Also, I will never believe "Cass" is how you spell it. 

On 1/30/2020 at 11:21 PM, AwesomO4000 said:

Her main chance to beat them was to make up an excuse to play Sam instead. I'm not even sure she didn't let Sam win that first game... that she didn't let him "trick" her with talking.

I'm convinced that was it. But I'm not sure that her plan didn't also include "letting" everyone go after she'd won to keep herself in their favor and on the winning side.

[The Companion]

On 1/30/2020 at 10:01 PM, Binns said:

That was my thought too. She didn’t think she could beat Dean. 

I thought it was the case as well. 

On 1/30/2020 at 10:02 PM, Jediknight said:

He didn't stop Sam from making the bet, he didn't argue with Sam, and said "They matter to us."  She can read people, and she could read that both of them had the will and character of the old heroes.  They had what they wanted, they had a chance to become superheroes, and were willing to give all that up for a group of strangers.  That impressed her, both Winchesters impressed her with that.

It wasn't about the playing, it was about what both were willing to give up, and do for a bunch of people they had just met.

This was my perception. If it was wrong, I am still going with it, not because the writers deserve the benefit of the doubt, but because I deserve to enjoy an episode dammit. And I did like this one. I loved the concept. I really liked Fortuna and the bartender and even the waitress with the pie. I liked the guys being on the same page mostly, but talking when they weren't. I loved Sam trusting Dean and giving him credit for all the ways Dean shaped him. I loved cocky Dean at the pool table. In short, I am calling it a win, putting my fingers in my ears and LALALALAing everything else. 😆

I didn't even post on the prior episode, which I will probably only acknowledge as set up for this one and then do my best to forget. 

[Terese]

50 minutes ago, The Companion said:

I thought it was the case as well. 

This was my perception. If it was wrong, I am still going with it, not because the writers deserve the benefit of the doubt, but because I deserve to enjoy an episode dammit. And I did like this one. I loved the concept. I really liked Fortuna and the bartender and even the waitress with the pie. I liked the guys being on the same page mostly, but talking when they weren't. I loved Sam trusting Dean and giving him credit for all the ways Dean shaped him. I loved cocky Dean at the pool table. In short, I am calling it a win, putting my fingers in my ears and LALALALAing everything else. 😆

I didn't even post on the prior episode, which I will probably only acknowledge as set up for this one and then do my best to forget. 

Lol Good for you and your ray of sunshine 🙂