Speculation Without Spoilers

[morgankobi]

At 10:30 p.m. EST, AMC will air Talking Dead, the live after-show hosted by Chris Hardwick, to discuss the finale and bid farewell to fallen characters. Past guests have included Kevin Smith, Norman Reedus, Lauren Cohan and Conan O’Brien.

 

 

Is there usually a farewell (again), for the characters at the end of the season, or should we maybe expect more based on that description? (It's my first real-time season.)

Edited March 2, 2015 by morgankobi

[lulee]

Is there usually a farewell (again), for the characters at the end of the season, or should we maybe expect more based on that description? (It's my first real-time season.)

I think the "At 10:30..." is just the boilerplate description of TTD. So I don't read anything into mention of bidding farewell, although I wouldn't be surprised if there's one or more notable deaths in the finale.

 

On a related note, that second clip on TTD showed Sasha looking unhinged and there's going to be "mystery guest" on TTD. Could it be Sonequa Martin-Green? What are odds Sasha will be joining Tyrese and Bob in the great SUV of death in the sky?

Edited March 2, 2015 by lulee

[CletusMusashi]

I think it would be refreshing if for once they didn't thin the herd by randomly killing a bunch of "extras."

Maybe Rick and some other core members will decide Alexandria is not such a good location after all, and will again take to the road in order to move into, say, The Smithsonian Museum or something. (Abraham could sit in Archie's chair and call Eugene a meathead. Daryl could put on Fonzie's jacket. Rick could have an alpha male staring contest with Dillinger's penis...) And some others decide to stay behind.

Or, vice versa. Rick stays, and others leave.

They'd better kill Father PP, though. Bonus points if he's trying to pass the collection plate and gets struck by lightning.

Edited March 2, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[ghoulina]

On a related note, that second clip on TTD showed Sasha looking unhinged...

 

She appeared to be shooting a bunch of picture frames, complete with photos. And didn't Deanna have a special mission for her? Why would she send her out to shoot up pictures of people? Pictures of whom?

[editorgrrl]

That second clip on TTD showed Sasha looking unhinged and there's going to be "mystery guest" on TTD. Could it be Sonequa Martin-Green? What are odds Sasha will be joining Tyrese and Bob in the great SUV of death in the sky?

 

I speculated in the Sasha thread that she probably shares Carl & Carol's fear of getting weak. Or it's part of her new job.

 

What I didn't understand was why she was using framed photographs for target practice. Chez Rick, all the frames were empty. I didn't get a good look at the state of her hair—could it have been a flashback?

[lulee]

I think Sasha looked recent. Maybe that new job from Deanna didn't go so well.

[lulee]

I wonder if Aaron's surveillance of our group will come into play. For instance, he'd know that Carol's no meek "den mother" (more like a "den MFer"), but I doubt she ever sat around a campfire recapping her pre-ZA life and her human kills.

 

Could be interesting in a rift happens in Alexandria and Aaron ends up on their side.

[kikismom]

 

Maybe Rick and some other core members will decide Alexandria is not such a good location after all, and will again take to the road in order to move into, say, The Smithsonian Museum or something. (Abraham could sit in Archie's chair and call Eugene a meathead. Daryl could put on Fonzie's jacket. Rick could have an alpha male staring contest with Dillinger's penis...)

 

Too bad Beth is already gone; they could have her sit in Abraham Lincoln's chair from Ford's Theatre and get the back of her head blown out.

(Too soon? I mean, too soon for an Abe Lincoln joke?)

[lulee]

Clearly, I am too easily distracted, because despite having better things to do, I was skimming this thread. Reading over a post from a few days ago, I realized that I'd misread the finale blurb that the network put out. I had thought that it said that Daryl was "on a run", but now I see that it says, "In the finale, Daryl finds himself in trouble while out on the run."  Not "a run" but "the run."

 

So I'm not going to spec on that trouble that Daryl finds himself in (and what that means for him) but rather the "on the run" part. I'm thinking that things head south inside Alexandria and Daryl kills one of the long-time Alexandrians - probably Mr. Jr. ROTC and has to face the "law" aka Rick and Michonne but he either escapes, possibly with help, or they decide to banish him, which is probably unlikely.

[Constantinople]

If I counted correctly, since the start of Season 5 CDB has lost Bob, Beth & Tyrese and found Father Gabriel (aka Father Pee Pants) and Noah, leaving CDB -1 since the start of the season.  So CDB could "gain" a core member and still be the same size as before.

 

But Alexandria has introduced a wealth of new characters, not all of whom I remember: Aaron, Eric, Deanna, Deanna's idiot son, Deanna's idiot son's idot friend that accompanied him on the trip outside, Jessie, Jessie's husband, two kids whose names I forget and Enid (there are probably others I've forgotten).

 

Some of this herd has to get culled.

[editorgrrl]

Some of this herd has to get culled.

 

The elderly cheek-pinchers can go. Let's just hope they don't die in their sleep and turn. Does Alexandria have protocols in place? Maybe that can be Gabriel's job.

[CarpeDiem54]

The elderly cheek-pinchers can go. Let's just hope they don't die in their sleep and turn. Does Alexandria have protocols in place? Maybe that can be Gabriel's job.

Last rights and a spike through the head. Amen.

[kj4ever]

Last rights and a spike through the head. Amen.

The elderly thing is kind of why I thought Deanna saw through Carol's den Mother persona....

[editorgrrl]

From the "Remember" thread:

I think, in the end, the [Alexandria] group is going to NEED CDB to take over. Their ways may have "worked" for them for a time (even though they just lost 4 of their people on one run last week), but they can't forever. This new world's going to need a Rick Grimes. They just don't know it yet. Or maybe they do.

It isn't as if they have hundreds of people in ASZ; losing 4 people in one week is a lot, and even at the prison our gang would be devastated. But it doesn't seem as though anyone is in mourning at ASZ.

We also don't know how recently Deanna banished three people—nor if they have any friends or family in Alexandria. (Perhaps Enid was bringing them food &/or supplies?)

[lulee]

I doubt it's going to happen, but I wish that they would stay in Alexandria for a while, not becoming weak, but getting some rest and mostly aging Judith. It would have to be through a time jump because Alexandria itself probably isn't conducive to much conflict that wouldn't be retreads of the time on the farm or at the prison. But I'm afraid we're not going to get a time jump and poor little Judith is going to be out on the road in the hot sun again.

[kikismom]

 poor little Judith is going to be out on the road in the hot sun again.

[editorgrrl]

From the "Remember" thread:

I do like the idea of a group of survivors seeking out strong people who aren't psychopaths to "join" them in their nice little community, in the hopes that the strong ones will defend the place against the bad people who are around. Hell, maybe the alleged 4 people they recently lost didn't happen because of a run. It seems that they were all more impressed with CDB's sense of family than their particular strengths. I think that's important. Once you're in CDB, you're one of them (unless you kill and burn two of them, then you get a time out).

Deanna told Rick, "I exiled three men who didn't work out—and we both know that's as good as killing them." But Carol was exiled, and she's still here.

I won't go so far as to assume the exiled will save Alexandria the way Carole saved CDB at Terminus, but I am convinced that at least one of them is alive & well. Maybe TPTB will flip the script—and have them take down Alexandria.

Edited to add an excellent piece of speculation from the Aiden thread:

Maybe that's CDB's "audition" at ASZ, or one of them. "Can you possibly 'out-douche' Aiden?? If not, thanks for playing but you can kindly GTFO!"

Just as Aiden's a self-confessed douchebag, Deanna calls herself a poker player. It makes perfect sense that the audition is more than just the videotapes.

Edited March 6, 2015 by editorgrrl

[ghoulina]

I kind of wanted someone to fail the "audition" - just so we could see what it would take to fail, and how they would handle it. But....maybe they still will? Maybe it's still ongoing?

[Nashville]

From the "Remember" thread:

Deanna told Rick, "I exiled three men who didn't work out—and we both know that's as good as killing them." But Carol was exiled, and she's still here.

Actually, I found that line very telling. The ASZhats consider living "out there" to be tantamount to a death sentence; to CDB, however, the ASZhat's Hell is their Normal. There's a major comprehension gap here, and it's all on Deanna's side. Which doesn't bode well for her poker player analogy, either. :)

[kikismom]

Actually, I found that line very telling. The ASZhats consider living "out there" to be tantamount to a death sentence; to CDB, however, the ASZhat's Hell is their Normal. There's a major comprehension gap here, and it's all on Deanna's side. Which doesn't bode well for her poker player analogy, either. :)

Assuming that a poker player's statements would always be an honest expression of her real opinions.

I've seen great poker players/winners start a game with new people by saying "A full house---that's when all my cards are the same suit, right?"

[Nashville]

Assuming that a poker player's statements would always be an honest expression of her real opinions.

I've seen great poker players/winners start a game with new people by saying "A full house---that's when all my cards are the same suit, right?"

Yep yep yep.

But good players always start out trying to convince you of how bad they are.

It's essential to the setup.

So if somebody right off the bat tries convincing you how good they are...? :)

[Wessex]

I don't get why EVERYONE out there is evil.  I mean, back in the early settler/pioneer days, everyone banded together to make a go of it and help out during the starving seasons.  Struggling, being hungry, disease, death didn't turn people into pillaging murders.  They helped their neighbors (usually).    Why are people not pulling together to try to make a community and create a post-life?  

[kikismom]

I don't get why EVERYONE out there is evil.  I mean, back in the early settler/pioneer days, everyone banded together to make a go of it and help out during the starving seasons.  Struggling, being hungry, disease, death didn't turn people into pillaging murders.  They helped their neighbors (usually).    Why are people not pulling together to try to make a community and create a post-life?  

Because first of all, they have walkers in the ZA, have thinned out a lot of people, and those would be the gentlest people.

The ones who survived so far are the ones willing to do anything to survive. By definition, those are people who have cast aside morals/ethics/scruples...or those who never had them in the first place.

 

The settlers could turn around and go home, or join the army or later on order food and supplies by freight train.

This is a world where you go you can't really get back to a civilisation without the enemy and the starving,

This is a world where there is no more to find at this point by scavenging, and efforts to get a farm going are a little hard when you get overrun by the living or the dead.

When the last people you met who said they were all about helping the neighbors were cannibals, you don't want to take a chance. Before that the neighbors were Woodbury.

Pioneers/Settlers seems at first to be the automatic analogy; but it really isn't that close. They still had knowledge of a society they came from that still existed, they still had communication---it was slow but so was everything.

They understood why it was happening.

They understood what steps would change and improve conditions and those steps were possible.

 

I would see the ZA in this story as more comparable historically to the Black Death. No one decided on purpose to chance it. No one saw a possible payoff in return for going through it. No one knew why it was happening, no one knew how to stop it happening, no one could trust another person or anything else not to bring it into their home.

Edited March 7, 2015 by kikismom

[Tippi Blevins]

I'll really hate it if Rick's attentions toward Jessie end up contributing to the end of the first decent home they've had since the farm. I mean, I think the idyllic life has to end eventually in order for the show to continue, but I'd just hate it if came about that way. It would just seem like a cheap plot snag if, after these years of him doing whatever it takes to keep his group alive, he messes it up over someone he just met. At least mess it up in a blaze of glory, like going on a murderous rampage with a pasta maker as his weapon of choice.

 

Also, I hope Daryl's new job as recruiter involves him getting a wash and a trim. He doesn't need to look "Mormon missionary" tidy, but at least don't make potential recruits think they'll be living in a grease pit.

[lulee]

Rick and Carol already may have/ are at risk of going too far at proactive moves. Maybe Michonne should ask the dogwalker for a couple of leashes for the two of them.

[morgankobi]

Can we use the previews for next week, including Talking Dead clips, for speculation here?

 

Unrelated to that, I think Aaron will try to help/protect CDB when things go south with the ASZhats, something will happen to Eric, and Aaron will join CDB on their next adventure.

Edited March 9, 2015 by morgankobi

[lulee]

Can we use the previews for next week, including Talking Dead clips.

I'm not sure. On TwoP previews were fair game.

[editorgrrl]

Can we use the previews for next week, including Talking Dead clips, for speculation here?

 

In my personal opinion, anything released by AMC is a promo, preview, or PR—not spoilers.

[morgankobi]

OK then. This is pretty small anyway...Dr. Pete's continual pushing to get Rick, then the kids in the TD preview, in where he can "look at them" is getting creepy.

 

I also have serious doubts that a guy who started out in art college then somehow switched to medical school while helping to support a new wife and baby (I am assuming, for the narrative, she stayed home since she is still doing art). Not only did he become a doctor, but a surgeon who can repair Noah's leg? This is likely more inconsistent writing than lying ASZhats, though.

Edited March 9, 2015 by morgankobi

[morgankobi]

Can you imagine the laughing fit Morgan would have if he shows up here? The man fortified a whole town by himself, and did a much more thorough job of it than these ASZhats!

[lulee]

OK then. This is pretty small anyway...Dr. Pete's continual pushing to get Rick, then the kids in the TD preview, in where he can "look at them" is getting creepy..

Seemed kind of like a power move to me - to get the Grimes family on his turf and exert what amounts to his authority in ASZ.

[morgankobi]

I'd feel better if he'd say "give you a check-up" instead of "let me look at you/them"  :)

[editorgrrl]

Dr. Pete's continual pushing to get Rick, then the kids in the TD preview, in where he can "look at them" is getting creepy.

 

Seemed kind of like a power move to me - to get the Grimes family on his turf and exert what amounts to his authority in ASZ.

 

And the scene was shot to emphasize how much taller Dr. Pete is than Rick. 

 

AMC has released another promo for Season 5, Episode 14, "Spend":

 

Edited to add some actual speculation: Scarol's storytime with Sam will probably come back to haunt her, but nicking that 1/4 chocolate bar definitely will.

Edited March 9, 2015 by editorgrrl

[morgankobi]

No hair cut for Eugene, then. He needed one the most.

 

So the town doctor smokes and day-drinks? Awesome.

Edited March 9, 2015 by morgankobi

[lulee]

Edited to add some actual speculation: Scarol's storytime with Sam will probably come back to haunt her, but nicking that 1/4 chocolate bar definitely will.

Yeah, someone on the ep thread said how Carol's being positioned to save the rest of the again, but I doubt it. I'm not convinced that she's pulled the wool I've Deanna's eyes OR that her mid-party raid won't come back to bite her OR that her proactive zeal isn't going to have serious negative consequences.

The only reason she may be unlikely to be banished is that she was already banished once...Unless this is turning into Survivor: Redemption Island [blech].

 

ETA: STFU, Eugene. At least Tara's there to talk some sense into him.

What do you suppose that mission is about?

Edited March 9, 2015 by lulee

[ghoulina]

I'd feel better if he'd say "give you a check-up" instead of "let me look at you/them"  :)

 

Agreed. It sounded creepy. I'll take my chances with the vet's daughter (Maggie), rather than pay a visit to Dr. Porch Dick. 

[Ohwell]

I have a feeling that Carol had better watch out for Olivia.  If they come to blows, Olivia would come out on top and turn Carol into prosciutto.  I wouldn't mind that one bit. 

[Samsnee]

Having not read the comics, can someone explain who the wolves are people keep referring to?

[editorgrrl]

Having not read the comics, can someone explain who the wolves are people keep referring to?

According to a post in the "The Comics: The Same but Different" thread, there are no wolves in the comics.

Edited March 10, 2015 by editorgrrl

[morgankobi]

Having not read the comics, can someone explain who the wolves are people keep referring to?

Please see our new thread, "WTF is a CDB" for a quick explanation of the wolves :)

 

According to a post in the "The Comics: The Same but Different" thread, there are no wolves in the comics.

 

Kevin Smith made me think differently on Talking Dead, though.

[GaT]

I've been thinking about the A stamp for some reason, & I think that the A stands for acceptable, or acquired, or allowed in, or something like that, & it's what they use to identify people they want & how they let everyone know. Anyone with a A stamp stays, anyone without they get rid of either by having them "accidentally" killed by a walker, or just banishing them.

[Tippi Blevins]

I thought the A stood for Alexandria, textually. Then, subtextually, a big honkin' scarlet letter.

 

I don't read spoilers or the comics, but the way they keep emphasizing the baby thing... Makes me think Rick's being put out to stud. Maybe the other guys, too, but Deanna's rooting for Rick because she has "proof" he's not shooting blanks because of Judith. She doesn't know about Shane Jr's history. 

 

That's probably why she was so happy with how handsome he turned out to be under that blood, dirt, and weedy beard. "Oh thank God the babies will be cute."

Edited March 10, 2015 by Tippi Blevins

[mandolin]

Please see our new thread, "WTF is a CDB" for a quick explanation of the wolves :)

Kevin Smith made me think differently on Talking Dead, though.

Yeah, I was confused and annoyed by that. Edited March 10, 2015 by mandolin

[Tippi Blevins]

What if the whole abusive husband angle is a misdirect? What if Sam wanted the gun for Enid? He might not know that she (possibly) already took Rick's blender gun. All he knows is that she has need for a gun. Is his older brother the one who was acting kind of possessive toward her?

Edited March 16, 2015 by Tippi Blevins

[RainOnToosdays]

 

At some point Rick will have proof positive that Pete is an abuser, given the small confines of the town.  As the law (and because he has feelings for Jessie), he'll be bound to investigate.  Pete will become belligerent.  Things will escalate until there is a confrontation, leading to Rick having to kill Pete either to protect Jessie and the children, or himself.  He'll be forced to kill Pete in the end.

 

I'd have it go down like this .. 

 

Sam gets his hands on a gun. Some situation boils over in the Jessie/Pete (do they have a last name?) household.  Sam points the gun at his father. Rick and Carol show up along with whoever else they want to put in the scene. Everyone ends up pointing their guns at each other. Perhaps Pete even has Jessie in a stronghold, like a hostage. It's tense. Put the gun, down, Sam, noone wants to see the kid shoot his own father. (Remember Carl and his emotional turmoil over whether he needed his dad or not? and then he couldn't do the deed when he thought he had turned?).  It's a stand off. Who's going to make a move? And then Pete decides what the hell, it's not worth it and turns a gun on himself. (Abusive men are cowards so killing himself works.) Though of course they would frame it so it looks like he shot Jessie, but after commrecial we'll see he shot himself.

 

Problems solved. Pete is removed from the equation and no-one has to take the blame/guilt, there won't be months of discussion over whether it was right or not for [insert name here] to have killed him and whether they did it for legit reasons (to protect Jessie or the kids or the community as a whole) or to just further their own inner purpose (vengeance on an abuser or to "get the girl"). 

 

[CletusMusashi]

I predict that the next time Sam is stealing things for Carol, he manages to snag a pistol for himself.

He hides it in a drawer in the garage.

Jessie makes him re-assemble that ugly-ass owl thing again. After she leaves, he destroys it and runs off to annoy Carol.

Pete walks into the garage looking for some booze that he left in a drawer.

Just then, Constable Rick returns, still trying to solve the Case of the Battered Bird. He sees owl pieces all over the floor, and he sees Pete."Pete the Pestilent Porch Dick! It looks like your foul-fingered festival of marital mayhem is at a finish," growls Rick. "Wait. Am I getting my Batman imitations mixed up?"

"Hi Rick. I have booze," slurs Pete. "We can be friends!"

He obliviously pulls Sam's gun out of the drawer, because all he's actually noticed is that it's not alcohol, and Rick, seeing it, shoots him. In the finger. "Owl be the judge of that," he deadpans. Because Rick is batshit. He is shirtless and still hacking Pete into little pieces with a jengabird wing when Jessie comes home from the cake store, where she and Pete have been busy all week planning a surprise birthday party for Rick, hence all the nervousness and secrecy they've been displaying.

So why did Sam want a gun? Because he's a kid who wants a gun! Even without zombies around, it's not that unusual.

So, Sam: Thanks for ruining Rick's birthday party, you little shit. There were gonna be owl pinatas and everything! Well, almost everything. The horsey rides got cancelled at the last minute.

Edited March 16, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[editorgrrl]

I predict that the next time Sam is stealing things for Carol, he manages to snag a pistol for himself.

 

Why in the hell did I not think of that?! It seems so obvious in retrospect. If TPTB don't go this route, it's a gaping plot hole.

[Nashville]

I'd have it go down like this .. 

 

Sam gets his hands on a gun. Some situation boils over in the Jessie/Pete (do they have a last name?) household.  Sam points the gun at his father. Rick and Carol show up along with whoever else they want to put in the scene. Everyone ends up pointing their guns at each other.

I see someone else besides me caught Reservoir Dogs on the toob this weekend. :)

[Haleth]

The horsey rides got cancelled at the last minute.

 

Poor Buttons.  :(

[Sofie Fatale]

But will there be cookies!?