S04.E12: Series Finale Part 1/S04.E13: Series Finale Part 2

[Guest]

Airs December 22, 2019

Quote

Parts 1 and 2 of the series' finale

 

[Cardie]

Every car in alt-Washington Township is white!

[truthaboutluv]

Brilliant and absolutely perfect. At the last shot, when they showed Darlene walk back into the room, I was screaming "DON'T DO IT SAM", worried it would have panned to Tyrell's face. Thank goodness he didn't make that dumb decision because it would have totally fucked up a perfect series finale. 

Yes, it wasn't a surprise and kudos to the poster who figured the twist out a few weeks ago, that we the viewers had never met real Elliot. The twist worked perfectly and made absolute sense rather than some out of left field shit that would have been completely stupid.

And as sad as it was, that she was willing to keep interacting with an alter knowing it wasn't her brother, just because it meant she got to have some type of relationship with him, it made sense that Darlene did know. Because once the reveal happened, all I could think was "seriously Darlene, how did you really not realize your brother was not fully present for almost a year". 

So when it was all said and done, there were no time travel machines, no wacky "it was all a dream". Esmail played on the "it was all a dream" sort of, with the twist that everything that happened was done by Elliot's alter. So poor real Elliot has been asleep and in a dream for almost a year while his angry/antisocial alter was running around wreaking havoc and bringing down super powerful cyber terrorists. Go figure. 

But man, how fucked up was Elliot and Darlene's childhood. My heart broke for both characters. Darlene who just wanted some connection with her brother but realizing how mentally damaged he is. And Elliot, yeah some people thought the sexual abuse was cliche but no one without major trauma in their life ends up this damaged. Dude had four personalities. 

I know some had mixed feelings about some of the episodes this season and I will agree Season 2 was as a whole a bit of a misstep, at least the first half of it, but I still loved this series and thought it was one of the best of this decade. Esmail is absolutely brilliant and I appreciate him for introducing me to Rami Malek who was just a revelation. I'll miss this show. 

eta: A part of me was a bit bummed we never got to meet real Elliot. I'm guessing he was a much quieter, less angry version of hacker Elliot. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[Cardie]

32 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

eta: A part of me was a bit bummed we never got to meet real Elliot. I'm guessing he was a much quieter, less angry version of hacker Elliot. 

Was he anything like the other Elliot, from the fantasy universe? I doubt we ever do see him as alter Elliot said that we, the friend, had to vanish as well if the Mastermind were to let go. 

[possibilities]

I've been close with at least 4 multiples, and none of them had a "real" person and a bunch of alters. They all functioned as collectives, and integration was about them learning to cooperate, not cede dominance to a single one of them. So, I don't know if what this show describes is something that actually is true for some, or if it's a misunderstanding/fantasy. But even with that caveat, I enjoyed the interaction between Elliot and Darlene, and the love that fundamentally governed every aspect of recovery.

[VinylGuy]

the only loose end is Tyrell right?

[truthaboutluv]

6 minutes ago, VinylGuy said:

the only loose end is Tyrell right?

I'm pretty sure the conclusion is that Tyrell died that night in the woods, after he was shot.

[VinylGuy]

14 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

I'm pretty sure the conclusion is that Tyrell died that night in the woods, after he was shot.

yeah, me too but its weird there wasnt any kind of news about it. Not even the tv? And what was that light about?

[hnygrl]

I love being right

Just wish we could’ve met the real deal Elliot. I think he’s more like the CEO Elliot than the other one.  Repetitive. Boring, routine. But HIS life. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by hnygrl

[luna1122]

7 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Brilliant and absolutely perfect. At the last shot, when they showed Darlene walk back into the room, I was screaming "DON'T DO IT SAM", worried it would have panned to Tyrell's face. Thank goodness he didn't make that dumb decision because it would have totally fucked up a perfect series finale. 

 

Wait, why would it have been Tyrell's face? 

I'm still...thinking about it. It was beautiful and so effing sad that I cried,  but I'm not positive yet how I actually felt about it. 

[shapeshifter]

11 hours ago, Cardie said:

Every car in alt-Washington Township is white!

Except Elliot's.
  
  

 

9 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

eta: A part of me was a bit bummed we never got to meet real Elliot. I'm guessing he was a much quieter, less angry version of hacker Elliot.

I thought all of the Elliot's were pretty quiet, which makes me wonder if Sam planned this ending from the beginning, or, if he had, would he have made greater distinction's in the Elliot personas.
  
  

 

8 hours ago, VinylGuy said:

the only loose end is Tyrell right?

For me, Tyrell will always be an alter. Artists have to allow the audience to interpret.

[becauseIsaidso]

10 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Brilliant and absolutely perfect. At the last shot, when they showed Darlene walk back into the room, I was screaming "DON'T DO IT SAM", worried it would have panned to Tyrell's face. Thank goodness he didn't make that dumb decision because it would have totally fucked up a perfect series finale. 

Yes, it wasn't a surprise and kudos to the poster who figured the twist out a few weeks ago, that we the viewers had never met real Elliot. The twist worked perfectly and made absolute sense rather than some out of left field shit that would have been completely stupid.

And as sad as it was, that she was willing to keep interacting with an alter knowing it wasn't her brother, just because it meant she got to have some type of relationship with him, it made sense that Darlene did know. Because once the reveal happened, all I could think was "seriously Darlene, how did you really not realize your brother was not fully present for almost a year". 

So when it was all said and done, there were no time travel machines, no wacky "it was all a dream". Esmail played on the "it was all a dream" sort of, with the twist that everything that happened was done by Elliot's alter. So poor real Elliot has been asleep and in a dream for almost a year while his angry/antisocial alter was running around wreaking havoc and bringing down super powerful cyber terrorists. Go figure. 

But man, how fucked up was Elliot and Darlene's childhood. My heart broke for both characters. Darlene who just wanted some connection with her brother but realizing how mentally damaged he is. And Elliot, yeah some people thought the sexual abuse was cliche but no one without major trauma in their life ends up this damaged. Dude had four personalities. 

I know some had mixed feelings about some of the episodes this season and I will agree Season 2 was as a whole a bit of a misstep, at least the first half of it, but I still loved this series and thought it was one of the best of this decade. Esmail is absolutely brilliant and I appreciate him for introducing me to Rami Malek who was just a revelation. I'll miss this show. 

eta: A part of me was a bit bummed we never got to meet real Elliot. I'm guessing he was a much quieter, less angry version of hacker Elliot. 

This!!! A thousand times This.  I don't know why I never picked up on his mother as one of the alters, but I was very pleased with the ending, even the 2001-ish viewing of scenes from his life streaming through his eye.  I am currently re-watching the previous seasons and will watch this one again as soon as it's available.

[VinylGuy]

yes, im tempted on watching the whole thing again just to see if it holds up.

 

Still a terrific season. So well directed and framed, the acting was superb...really amazing season.

[Cardie]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

13 hours ago, Cardie said:

 

Except Elliot's.
  

I posted this in progress before we saw Elliot’s car. 

[truthaboutluv]

3 hours ago, luna1122 said:

Wait, why would it have been Tyrell's face? 

It was a long standing theory in the show's fandom that Tyrell was never real and an alter of Elliot's. I was never fully on board the theory but felt it had some merit after the first season. But as the show went on, it became more and more unrealistic in my opinion, for the Tyrell is an alter or Tyrell was real Elliot thing to work.

And so I'm glad Esmail didn't bow to that pressure to try and go for some "OMFG" ending that made no real narrative sense and would have a million plot holes in it. As I said last night, while sure the season and even the show may not have been perfect, this ending was pretty much close to perfect. It fit, it made sense, there was no, "huh, what..."

I thought it was brilliant how he subverted the all too cliche, "it was all a dream and nothing we've seen for all these seasons was ever real" by having the events happen but still having real Elliot being locked in a dream while an alter took over his life. So for real Elliot, all of the past four seasons was a dream. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[truthaboutluv]

13 hours ago, VinylGuy said:

yeah, me too but its weird there wasnt any kind of news about it. Not even the tv? And what was that light about?

My guess is his body hasn't been found. Keeping in mind this whole season happened in two or three days tops. And Tyrell died in the middle of some frozen forest. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[VinylGuy]

6 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

My guess is his body hasn't been found. Keeping in mind this whole damn near season was two or three days tops. And Tyrell died in the middle of some frozen forest. 

yeah, could be. It the only thing it got unanswered for me.

[Guest]

I hope Elliot Prime enjoys what he can of his nice, quiet, normal life without his alters before he's eventually locked away somewhere for committing all of those crimes. 

At least the question has been answered as to why he never changed his clothes or haircut. 

[shapeshifter]

22 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

I hope Elliot Prime enjoys what he can of his nice, quiet, normal life without his alters before he's eventually locked away somewhere for committing all of those crimes. 

Darlene says he’s a public hero, so won’t any discovered crimes be written off as part of his plan to save the world from nuclear disaster?

[Anela]

I loved it! I've just finished watching, and I'm still crying a bit. That was a great way to say goodbye, and they included us in it, just as they always have. 

I can't remember if I was the one to figure it out. If I did, it was only because I was bouncing off ideas, because others thought that Tyrell was another alter. I was half-expecting them to pan to Tyrell's face at the end, and knew there would be some annoyed people if they did. I wanted to meet the real Elliot, but I'm too attached to the one we've always seen, so I'm kind of glad that we didn't.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Anela

[Anela]

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Except Elliot's.
  
  

 

I thought all of the Elliot's were pretty quiet, which makes me wonder if Sam planned this ending from the beginning, or, if he had, would he have made greater distinction's in the Elliot personas.
  
  

 

For me, Tyrell will always be an alter. Artists have to allow the audience to interpret.

I actually prefer the idea that he was real, and separate - except that also means that his sadistic wife and little baby are dead. (The sadistic wife might not be that much of a loss, but the baby. 😞 Unless I'm forgetting something. Was the baby still alive?)

5 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

It was a long standing theory in the show's fandom that Tyrell was never real and an alter of Elliot's. I was never fully on board the theory but felt it had some merit after the first season. But as the show went on, it became more and more unrealistic in my opinion, for the Tyrell is an alter or Tyrell was real Elliot thing to work.

And so I'm glad Esmail didn't bow to that pressure to try and go for some "OMFG" ending that made no real narrative sense and would have a million plot holes in it. As I said last night, while sure the season and even the show may not have been perfect, this ending was pretty much close to perfect. It fit, it made sense, there was no, "huh, what..."

I thought it was brilliant how he subverted the all too cliche, "it was all a dream and nothing we've seen for all these seasons was ever real" by having the events happen but still having real Elliot being locked in a dream while an alter took over his life. So for real Elliot, all of the past four seasons was a dream. 

I think it's best finale I've ever seen, in that way. I may be forgetting something fantastic, due to overload from everything that I've watched over the years, but I'm glad that I stuck with it. I also loved what he had to say at the end, just as I loved what he said to White Rose last week. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by Anela

[Cardie]

2 hours ago, Anela said:

Unless I'm forgetting something. Was the baby still alive?)

I believe the baby was shipped off to Denmark but vulnerable to Dark Army threats.  

[TVbitch]

So, Mastermind Elliot put Real Elliot in a perfect world loop for safekeeping (is that why he --and Tyrell-- were a bit bored with their perfect Groundhog day loop life?). But then Elliot found himself in the loop and killed real Elliot and wanted to take his place. ..but he new that was just a loop he created. (?!) Why can't Mastermind Elliot go live in the happy loop if he wants too, while Real Elliot comes back. 

It certainly took Mr. Robot long enough to tell him! I would have liked to see all the multiples discussing how to break it to him. 

[truthaboutluv]

38 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

I would have liked to see all the multiples discussing how to break it to him. 

This was shown briefly a few episodes ago. I think that's when the theory of hacker Elliot being an alter was first mentioned. The opening scene of the episode showed Mr. Robot, the mom and the child all discussing telling "him"the truth, without of course specifying who they were talking about. The mom alter was in favor of just telling him now and felt that they'd let things go on too long.

But Mr. Robot insisted that they give it more time, that he was close to figuring it out on his own. It was also when Mr. Robot mentioned that Elliot woke up briefly for Darlene and so he believed that Darlene was the link to get real Elliot back.

Based on the series finale, I think this also confirms that as was speculated, when Elliot didn't remember Darlene mentioning seeing Vera to him, it was because real Elliot woke up briefly. And understandably, he had no reaction to Darlene's telling him this because he had clue who the hell Vera was.

1 hour ago, TVbitch said:

But then Elliot found himself in the loop and killed real Elliot and wanted to take his place. ..but he new that was just a loop he created.

When he first got to the loop, he didn't remember it was one he created for real Elliot. That was the whole big twist. Alter Elliot took over control but then he took over to the point of forgetting that he wasn't real Elliot. He himself forgot that he wasn't real.

And that's what the point of the whole dream/loop was. To get him to remember and face and accept the truth, so he could finally give real Elliot back control of his mind and life. That's why dream Krista said to him, "it's time to let go and give up control".

1 hour ago, TVbitch said:

Why can't Mastermind Elliot go live in the happy loop if he wants too, while Real Elliot comes back. 

Because it looked like for Elliot to truly wake up, all the alters had to be together. I guess an integration of sorts. At least that's how I interpreted it. 

4 hours ago, Anela said:

(The sadistic wife might not be that much of a loss, but the baby. 😞 Unless I'm forgetting something. Was the baby still alive?)

As another posted noted, the baby is still alive. When Joanna was killed by her obsessed lover, the baby was taken by the FBI, who were still looking for Tyrell at the time. And I may be wrong but I think Tyrell referenced something about caring for his son before he walked off into the light...literally.

[Chaos Theory]

Ok this last season was largely hit and miss for me I did really like the finale.  It answered all the questions it really needed to.  Of course all the people with white boards are going to say “this was never answered” but honestly the major story arcs or at least the ones that truly mattered got answered.  
 

Very good finale.

[Anela]

38 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

This was shown briefly a few episodes ago. I think that's when the theory of hacker Elliot being an alter was first mentioned. The opening scene of the episode showed Mr. Robot, the mom and the child all discussing telling "him"the truth, without of course specifying who they were talking about. The mom alter was in favor of just telling him now and felt that they'd let things go on too long.

 

I wondered about it back in October or November, when Tyrell was shot. The woman in the middle of nowhere, was looking at Tyrell all the time, it seemed (to me), and with others talking about Tyrell being a possible alter, I could only see Tyrell being one of them, if he was the real Elliot. I hadn't thought of it being anyone else, until they mentioned waiting for someone else. They made it sound like he was the angry one, though, not this Elliot. 

I hope Carly Chaikin is nominated for awards. 

[hnygrl]

Tyrell's wife's family eventually took the baby to raise, so he's living with family in Sweden (or wherever it is they're from). The DA KNEW Tyrell was alive and well but allowed the babe to be shipped to another country to not only hurt him further but control him more.

By season 3 I really felt sorry for Tyrell. This life was so not what he signed up for.

[gooberfish]

Who says? Who says which is the “real” Elliot? I did not like this at all. 

[possibilities]

Whiterose's machine was destroyed, but we never saw what it was/wasn't actually capable of, did we? Or was she just going to blow everything up and that was her plan all along?

I never believed it was a time travel device, but why would she think that causing a nuclear meltdown was in any way an answer for anything? If all she wanted was to live honestly as her true self, she could have done that at any time. It's bizarre that in 2019 somehow it's made to seem like her only option was death.

[Neurochick]

I loved the last shot of Darlene smiling at “real” Elliot.  Notice we never see “real” Elliot’s face.

[mtlchick]

4 minutes ago, possibilities said:

It's bizarre that in 2019 somehow it's made to seem like her only option was death.

This was still set in 2015. And as a minister for the Chinese government and their less than stellar human rights track record, it wouldn’t surprise me she would rather choose death than to be sent to some work camp.

 

Definitely one of the more bizarre finales ever that I’m still trying to rap my head around, but it gave me two things; 

1) My 9th grade crush on Christian Slater is completely justified (and he had a series last for more than a few episodes) 

2) the revelation that is Rami Malek. He went from mostly unknown to winning an Emmy and Oscar during this run. I really can’t wait for the next Bond film despite the really ridiculous title. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

Whiterose's machine was destroyed, but we never saw what it was/wasn't actually capable of, did we? Or was she just going to blow everything up and that was her plan all along?

I never believed it was a time travel device, but why would she think that causing a nuclear meltdown was in any way an answer for anything? If all she wanted was to live honestly as her true self, she could have done that at any time. It's bizarre that in 2019 somehow it's made to seem like her only option was death.

Maybe WR thought she was creating a new “Big Bang” to destroy the old world and create a new one. 
 

I hope Sam Esmail does a post-series podcast. 

Edited December 24, 2019 by shapeshifter

[Cardie]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Maybe WR thought she was creating a new “Big Bang” to destroy the old world and create a new one. 
 

That’s what she told Elliot. I think she believed that the machine would create an alternate universe where she could live as a woman and be with her lover. Everyone she killed in order to build it would be alive again. Because Elliot destroyed the machine before it did its thing, we’ll never know. 

[VinylGuy]

yeah, the whiterose machine...i just think its a cool mcguffin for him. It also speaks about how crazy and ruthless he become after his love killed himself.

[tennisgurl]

So wow, ten points to everyone who called the Elliot we have been following for the whole show isnt the real Elliot. There is a lot to process here, and I am really not sure how I feel about the whole ending. I am really glad that pretty much the whole show really did happen and that it all wasnt a dream or something ridiculous, but I am not totally sure how I feel about the Elliot we have followed and been invested in not being the "real Elliot" the whole time. The whole ending seems rather sad, that the person we have been following all along was just a construct who ended up more or less dying at the end, and while its nice that "real" Elliot has apparently dealt with some of his issues and come back, and that things have more or less worked out, I just dont know how I feel about it. I also dont really know if I like the idea that this Elliot is just an "angry hacker" persona for Real Elliot, I feel like the person we have been following for this whole series is more complex than that. Yeah he was frequently angry and did morally ambiguous things (until the last episode where he just went full evil, but I guess that was the point) but he also had a lot more going on than just being an angsty hacker. 

I do wonder what "Real" Elliot is like, I guess he is probably a bit like the guy we met in the supposed Alternate Universe, maybe just a bit more troubled and quiet. Normal guy with a kinda normal life, but is dealing with a lot of stuff internally. 

A lot of good moments here, and Rami is amazing as always, and I liked that the audience was one of the personas, and I feel like this is an ending that I will like more when I ruminate on it more, I want to like it more, but I am left just feeling kind of sad. 

[Ottis]

On 12/22/2019 at 7:30 PM, Cardie said:

Every car in alt-Washington Township is white!

Actually I’m almost positive I saw a non white car in a driveway as Elliott was walking by the homes. Yep, I did... right after the green house he walks by. Also, Elliott’s own car wasn’t in the township, was it? Wasn’t he in “the city?”

I still think WR’s machine was more multiverse than time machine. And wonder at what world White Rose is living in.

Mostly I was surprised that what we saw actually happened, from fsociety to Angela dying to the rich people being taken down. I was sure that was going to be part of a world Real Elliott created in his mind. But it was real. 

So the white light was the Real Elliott’s actual life going forward, with his now unneeded personalities just watching? 

Edited December 24, 2019 by Ottis

[Anela]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

 

I do wonder what "Real" Elliot is like, I guess he is probably a bit like the guy we met in the supposed Alternate Universe, maybe just a bit more troubled and quiet. Normal guy with a kinda normal life, but is dealing with a lot of stuff internally. 

 

I thought that "real Elliot" was the angry one, because of the look on Darlene's face when he grabbed her, and she demanded to know if he was our Eliot. 

Our Eliot reminds me a bit of someone I reconnected with this year. He told me he liked the first two seasons of Mr. Robot, and didn't want me to accidentally spoil anything on the last two. 

[VinylGuy]

guy can we talk about how good Carly Chaikin was all season?

[hnygrl]

8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So wow, ten points to everyone who called the Elliot we have been following for the whole show isnt the real Elliot. There is a lot to process here, and I am really not sure how I feel about the whole ending. I am really glad that pretty much the whole show really did happen and that it all wasnt a dream or something ridiculous, but I am not totally sure how I feel about the Elliot we have followed and been invested in not being the "real Elliot" the whole time. The whole ending seems rather sad, that the person we have been following all along was just a construct who ended up more or less dying at the end, and while its nice that "real" Elliot has apparently dealt with some of his issues and come back, and that things have more or less worked out, I just dont know how I feel about it. I also dont really know if I like the idea that this Elliot is just an "angry hacker" persona for Real Elliot, I feel like the person we have been following for this whole series is more complex than that. Yeah he was frequently angry and did morally ambiguous things (until the last episode where he just went full evil, but I guess that was the point) but he also had a lot more going on than just being an angsty hacker. 

I do wonder what "Real" Elliot is like, I guess he is probably a bit like the guy we met in the supposed Alternate Universe, maybe just a bit more troubled and quiet. Normal guy with a kinda normal life, but is dealing with a lot of stuff internally. 

A lot of good moments here, and Rami is amazing as always, and I liked that the audience was one of the personas, and I feel like this is an ending that I will like more when I ruminate on it more, I want to like it more, but I am left just feeling kind of sad. 

I think sad is the point, tennisgurl. If we felt any way but bittersweet or sad then Esmail didn't' do it right. We grew to love MasterMindElliot even though he was seriously messed up inside and out, and wanted a better life for him. When we found out he was just another construct of a broken mind, we were okay with that. 

For the first time in forever, I got a series finale I can be proud of and not annoyed by. This is/was one smart show. I always had to watch it with captions on so I wouldn't miss a thing.

3 hours ago, VinylGuy said:

guy can we talk about how good Carly Chaikin was all season?

RIGHT???? ESPECIALLY NOW that we KNOW she knew that wasn't her brother she was talking to all that time but another personality.

The woman played this role incredibly well.

[TVbitch]

My main, but gentle, complaint is that the finale needed a lot of talky exposition (first from the "therapist" and then from Darlene), to explain everthing to us. I wished they would have showed us, more than tell us, in these last few episodes.

It occurs to me that what White Rose wanted, Elliot had. Elliot had a perfect world loop that he believed was his reality. White Rose was trying to get to that same place by building that huge machine.

Hmmm. Cuz in Elliot's perfect world, WR was the Oprah-esque "all about love" person that she kept insisting she was. And she had that never quite explained total obsession with Elliot. Is it possible...

[tennisgurl]

Really, the big shock about the happy place world that real Elliot was in is that Heroes is still on the air! 

[Cardie]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Really, the big shock about the happy place world that real Elliot was in is that Heroes is still on the air! 

Heroes Reborn ran in 2015-16. 

[shapeshifter]

A comment post on The NY Times season finale article points out that Darlene’s heart-shaped glasses are symbolic of the love through which she sees Elliot: 

Quote

Let's remember, Darlene most often had literal love in her eyes. Those heart-shaped glasses weren't kitsch

I think there’s another comment interpreting Darlene’s heart glasses as the love through which Elliot sees Darlene —heh, or maybe that was just in my head. 
 

.

 

5 hours ago, Cardie said:

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Really, the big shock about the happy place world that real Elliot was in is that Heroes is still on the air! 

Heroes Reborn ran in 2015-16

Yes, but didn’t the Heroes poster have some tag line that unintentionally funnily said something about Heroes unbelievably still being on the air, too? —which was probably flashed as a bit of self-deprecating humor about Mr Robot still being on the air in 2019 telling a story that took place in 2015 when it started. 

[Tachi Rocinante]

It was a cheap cop out not to show the real Elliot.

I did like Beat Cop Dom noticing his ID and saying "this looks nothing like you" or whatever.

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, Tachi Rocinante said:

I did like Beat Cop Dom noticing his ID and saying "this looks nothing like you" or whatever.

In my mind the ID looks like Tyrelliot.
I apologize if I sound like a broken record.
It would also be interesting if it was Irving, Cisco, or someone else, like maybe even WR.
I hope in some future interview Sam E says it was left up to the imagination of the viewer on purpose.
It could also be that the ID does look like Rami and that Elliot in the tux really looks like someone else. 

Edited December 26, 2019 by shapeshifter

[truthaboutluv]

I just assumed that the reason Fake Dom said the ID looked nothing like the guy in front of her was because the whole point of the dream loop/alternate reality was to reveal the truth to Hacker Elliot that he wasn't real and instead an alter.

So the point being that he wasn't Elliot, as Dream Angela also says to him when he chases her into the arcade. He was a part of Elliot but not him. Just a part of him who'd taken control of his mind and body for almost a year. 

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I hope in some future interview Sam E says it was left up to the imagination of the viewer on purpose.

Sam said multiple times in interviews over the years that the show was not science fiction and many viewers still held onto the belief that a real time travel machine or alternate reality was going to be revealed on the show. So honestly I don't think Sam has to say anything for viewers to believe whatever they want to. 

[scrb]

On 12/23/2019 at 7:31 AM, VinylGuy said:

yes, im tempted on watching the whole thing again just to see if it holds up.

 

Still a terrific season. So well directed and framed, the acting was superb...really amazing season.

I’m curious too whether there has always been this All about Eve/St. Elsewhere frame all along.

I think the irregularity of the airing schedule diminished whatever coherence there might have been.  So people binging might appreciate it more.

Not sure Mr. Robot belongs in the pantheon as some articles have hinted.

[benteen]

I thought the first half was good but the last half was a circle jerk.  Was the real Elliot supposed to look like Tyrell?  Of course Esmail wasn't going to answer it.  Just a disappointing ending to a disappointing season.  It's sad to see how great this show was in Season 1 and what it became in the end.

About the only thing as silly as Whiterose's "terrorist attack" is Elliot being found and not being held by the government afterwards.

Continue to find it funny that Rami and Portia can barely be in the same scene together anymore...

Edited December 26, 2019 by benteen

[truthaboutluv]

12 hours ago, scrb said:

I’m curious too whether there has always been this All about Eve/St. Elsewhere frame all along.

There are various discussions online that list all the specifics throughout the seasons that do point to the ending having been planned out from the beginning.

No, I don't believe Esmail had every single thing mapped out, as we know, he admitted that Tyrell didn't really go as he initially planned as a character. And we know Angela's end wasn't necessarily supposed to be as it was, but because Portia didn't want to be on the show anymore, Esmail wrote in her murder. So sure, not every specific/major thing was necessarily the plan from the beginning. 

But I do think the overall story of Elliot and the alters, was the plan from the start. Basically, a lot of the things that made some convinced Tyrell was an alter or that Tyrell was real Elliot, probably were signs pointing to the ending we got.

Like Elliot finding nothing about himself in the first season when he looked but finding tons of information about Tyrell. Because Elliot as he was in the series, didn't actually exist. Elliot Alderson did but not hoodie/hacker Elliot, until he took over of course. 

And even if one thinks the story wasn't planned from the start, it definitely was before they started Season 4 because during one of his media appearances for Bohemian Rhapsody, Rami said Sam told him how the whole thing would end and that he'd had the last season completely mapped out already. They just hadn't started filming it. 

The ending to me is similar to the sexual abuse reveal. Yes, some were not thrilled about it and you may have even thought it was cliche but the fact is, you cannot say there weren't a plethora of signs throughout the series, suggesting that Elliot was the victim of some type of abuse. 

Edited December 26, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[Cardie]

Although the real Elliot probably also has the same surname, the Mastermind going by Alderson (alter-son) was a big clue from the outset. That the one twist that shocked so many was his forgetting he had a sister also points to how the real Elliot’s POV did not influence the Mastermind.