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Episode Discussion II: The TFGH


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Culture Check: How can we discuss a character's or actor's appearance without objectifying them? How can we express likes or dislikes and still respect an individual's humanity or be mindful that a character represents a person someone else might relate to or identify with?

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What is up with the blue at the inner corner of Lucy's eyes? She reminded me a picture on an Egyptian tomb.

How does Kristina know Lucky so well that she can visit him in the hospital when he's so sick? And shut up Kristina, we're all sick of your Ava vendetta. Also, Ava knows what it's like to have a daughter die too soon so shut up again.

Also shut up Ric. Alexis didn't notice Molly leaving because she was too occupied with your nonsense. 

At least the scenes between Molly and Cody are more tolerable now.

And speaking of romantic anvils -- Jason and Sasha. <eyeroll> Yes Sasha, if you want to keep your baby safe and free of the ills of money, pick the Quartermaine mob-hitman as the father.

Am I the only one who thinks that Olivia's plan to keep Sasha around is ridiculous? And how empty is that hotel that they can permanently comp her a room?

1 hour ago, Artsda said:

Carly is ok with a woman who may be pregnant with Jason's kid?

Carly may be in menopause now but i think that would make her even more resentful of another woman who is bearing Jason's child since she will never be able to.

Given the current political situations in Greenland and Ukraine, I hope that someone in the writing GH room is regretting doing a story arc involving rare minerals.

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7 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Can't believe that bitch Monica bought the baby a sweater.

Unforgivable, right?  And buying the little sprat one in green.  GREEN.  Goddam Quartermaines.  Next thing they'll want to be setting up a trust fund or some other horrible interfering thing.

I haven't been watching again long enough to have seen Sasha when she was apparently a rootable character.  All I've seen is a person dumb enough to choose Jason to be her pretend baby daddy while loudly condemning Willow for distancing her kids from the same people she wants to keep her kid away from.  And today, she basically said that she hates getting "charity" because ...... why, again?

I'm just hoping that when the truth about BK's baby burger comes out that she allows Monica to buy him a green sweater to match with the one she got for Sasha's kid.

Damn Quartermaines and their insistence on cute clothing.

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43 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

How does Kristina know Lucky so well that she can visit him in the hospital when he's so sick? And shut up Kristina, we're all sick of your Ava vendetta.

Kristina is his boss, since she hired him to be the bartender at Charlie's. They have had multiple scenes together "at work" before the Lucky/Cyrus fight that put Lucky in the hospital. 

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6 hours ago, ciarra said:

Then we have Cyrus, who is missing, yet everyone (other than Joss, Brennan and bad accent French lady who *know*) believes he's dead.  He's dead, why?  Because his cabin is clean?  Because someone left Jason's hairbrush there?  

It was not Cyrus' property. It belonged to Austin. Anna who did little to no  investigating when GirlSpy told her that Cyrus killed Dex. Anna and Dante (who was previously not allowed on the case) talked about Austin dying in the same cabin which was also professionally cleaned at the time. I don't remember how Anna was able to pinpoint the cabin as a place that Cyrus may run into. Because with Anna little to no investigation did not pick up the fact that Cyrus territory included that area, that he had known Austin for years, had paid for Austin's education and finally that Austin testified for Cyrus to be released from prison.

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12 hours ago, Sake614 said:

So noted bigot Natalia is on board with her ex not only supplying deception with this rare mineral they need, but taking a financial stake in the company? And how exactly is Sonny going to feel about that? Or you know, Tracy? Remember her? The majority shareholder, whom no one consulted.

that scene at Bobbie’s was ridiculous. Sonny clutched his chest for a good five minutes and yet not one single person noticed? I kept hoping he’d collapse in a heap and the staff would have to sweep him up.speaking of that scene, isn’t anyone who purportedly loves Kristina going to get that girl some therapy? Preferably in a padded cell? Even if Ava really did kill the baby, all this anger is going to end up killing Kristina. And while that might not be a bad thing for viewers, it would be bad for her family. 

Hey Sasha, if you don’t want the Qs fussing over your baby, maybe you shouldn’t have toLd them it’s Jason’s.

OMG Sonny constantly weaving to and fro while clutching his chest with no one noticing is HILARIOUS.  Sometimes I feel like GH is a comedy. 

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15 hours ago, Lugal said:

It's kind of a stupid cover story, something that will draw attention.  La Femme Joss could just say she's going to Cleveland and no one will care. A

Just saying . . .  The CDC and WHO recommend the following vaccinations for Easter Island: typhoid, hepatitis A, polio, hepatitis B, influenza, COVID-19, pneumonia, meningitis, chickenpox, shingles, Tdap (tetanus, diphtheria and pertussis) and measles, mumps and rubella (MMR).

I guess the children of Port Charles regularly get typhoid shots.

And bravo to Rick, regardless of his motivation,  for his truth-telling to Kristina. It's about damn time somebody said something in front of her relatives, in public, to maybe get them to think about how BSC (and annoying) she has become. 

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14 hours ago, Artsda said:

Molly's issue is that mommy and daddy fought? Not her deadbeat dad who was going to war over Ava and Sonny and her sister? 

If by "her sister" you mean Kristina and the window tumble, Molly to me seemed to believe it was a horrible accident. 

Ric wasn't a deadbeat dad. He lived in LA for a lot of Molly's adolescence, but there were mentions of him talking to her regularly, and I'm pretty sure she visited him during the year. The show has really leaned into Ric and Alexis hating each other and him being a terrible father, but that's not how things have been historically. They weren't friends, but there wasn't the outright, public sniping that there is now.

And if Molly is going to ding Ric for his choice of clients, she needs to ding Alexis for hers. They're both defense attorneys, and Molly is supposedly someone who understands how the adversarial system works.

12 hours ago, boes said:

And today, she basically said that she hates getting "charity" because ...... why, again?

Because it makes her feel as if she's not in charge—she didn't "earn" it. 

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13 hours ago, Grinaldi said:

Wasn't Cop Lucky also a part of the Kiefer stuff back in the day? He and Kristina have known each other for a long time.

Yes, Lucky and Dante were the cops investigating when LA's Kristina got beaten up by Kiefer and blamed Ethan. Kristina was a high school student whereas Lucky was a 30-something (alcoholic/addict) with kids, so it's weird to me that he's now working for her as a bartender

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I'm glad someone finally told Kristina that she needs therapy. That person probably shouldn't have been Ric, but whatever works. Poor Lucky trapped in a hospital bed and having to be a captive audience to her delusional rantings.  I hope he was writing his resignation letter in his head, probably more likely he was suddenly wishing the digitalis had killed him after all (or he thought it had and he was in hell).  

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39 minutes ago, sashabear21 said:

I'm glad someone finally told Kristina that she needs therapy. That person probably shouldn't have been Ric, but whatever works.

Kristina won't go to therapy no matter who tells her she needs it, at least not now. Holding own to her anger is what's keeping her going.

I want this story to move forward. I can't listen to her diatribe against Ava yet again, and I'm tired of Alexis, in particular, silently watching with a "yikes!" face and doing nothing.

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18 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I'd forgotten that Kristina was his boss. If she still is -- after that haranging, I'd want to quit

Underneath it all, she was just pissed off because he didn't cover his shift.

19 hours ago, DanaK said:

And why is Deception so stupid to want to use a rare product that is so hard to get? And now said mineral is putting them in danger of being part owned by Sidwell. They definitely writing Lucy as a greedy stupid jerk

Zincite (I'm pretty sure that's what they said it was) is not that rare, only zincite crystals are (in nature. They can be grown synthetically).  And they're pretty!

zic-11.jpg

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1 hour ago, Lugal said:

Zincite (I'm pretty sure that's what they said it was) is not that rare, only zincite crystals are (in nature. They can be grown synthetically).  And they're pretty!

Very pretty. They could decorate a whole room with them.

Growing the crystals at Deception would be the smart thing to do. But what would they do with Sidwell then?

Is anyone else squicked out by the idea of putting rare minerals in face cream?

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14 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Kristina won't go to therapy no matter who tells her she needs it,

Sam made her go to one session and waited for her and then talked about it after.  At one point after Sam's death, Kristina did mention keeping up with the sessions, for Sam's sake, but I'm guessing that promise has been forgotten and dropped since Kristina is still screaming murderer in Ava's face.  

On 3/1/2025 at 1:11 AM, nilyank said:

I don't remember how Anna was able to pinpoint the cabin as a place that Cyrus may run into.

Didn't they have some records of Cyrus' phone that showed he was heading in the north west direction and they couldn't figure out why because there's "just lots of forest area there".  And then Jordan's search uncovered the cabin in that area so they figured Cyrus was there and headed there.  

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20 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Yes, Lucky and Dante were the cops investigating when LA's Kristina got beaten up by Kiefer and blamed Ethan. Kristina was a high school student whereas Lucky was a 30-something (alcoholic/addict) with kids, so it's weird to me that he's now working for her as a bartender

Technically Lucky was a 20-something during that arc, or at least JJ was, but the character’s age sort of expanded and contracted between GV back to JJ. Plus the Kate Mansi recast aged Kristina a few years. The actors are only 5 years apart. 

I mean, think of Lulu, Lucky was a teen when she was born, and now the actress playing her is older than him. 

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Oh, look! Dante and Gio are having a snack at Bobbie's together and don't realize they're father and son. And they're talking about fitting in. Zzzz.

Oh, look! Gio's mom and Lila used the same very common expression. Could there be a familial link?

Lois obviously doesn't know that Martin's idea of attorney-client privilege is malleable depending on who's threatening him.

Send Lois back to Bensonhurst. Let her spill the Gio news and flee for a couple of years. Does she do anything else all day besides eavesdrop and insert herself into situations she shouldn't be? It's tiresome, and just underlines how unnecessary she is outside of the dumb baby stuff.

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On 3/2/2025 at 10:42 AM, absnow54 said:

Technically Lucky was a 20-something during that arc, or at least JJ was, but the character’s age sort of expanded and contracted between GV back to JJ. Plus the Kate Mansi recast aged Kristina a few years. The actors are only 5 years apart. 

I mean, think of Lulu, Lucky was a teen when she was born, and now the actress playing her is older than him. 

Yes, technically JJ was 28 when Lucky and Elizabeth's son Aiden was born in 2010, but that's close enough to 30 something that I believe he was supposed to be in his 30s esp. because he was a father figure to Elizabeth's toddler son Cameron, who is now over 20 years old/in college. Given that the Aiden character is supposed to be 14 (turning 15 in a few months), Lucky should be 40 or older. JJ is now 42 so his age fits but they aged the Kristina actress up too much.

The age thing isn't an issue with Lucky and Lulu IMO because they're not in a storyline together that doesn't fit with their past storyline the way the storyline is working with Lucky and Kristina. Even putting aside the fact that Lucky is an alcoholic/addict who should absolutely NOT be working as a bartender, Kristina was born in 2002 while JY's Lucky was engaged to marry Elizabeth and was involved with her sister. 

I know, I know - the Show has done far worse than this.  It just bothers me.

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Brad and Lucas were pretty hot. (Or maybe I'm just sex-starved on this show.) When the Lucas actor was talking with Brad at the bar, before he even started saying how he still had feelings, he looked down at Brad's mouth. That was a nice touch 🔥. Hope Brad comes clean and they work it out.

Hate Drew, but will not mind him making Portia and Curtis squirm, cuz I hate them too. As Sue famously said on the first season of Survivor, "Let the snake eat the rat."

Could be interesting if they are having Kristina take over for Sonny and it starts by her subltely starting to exert influence, which is what it looked like today when she Jedi mind tricked him into buying the house. 

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I know apparently we're supposed to hate Drew but is he wrong? Curtis seems to me like he's throwing a fit that he wasn't made CEO for a company he had zero experience running, and considering that Drew also turned down Ned who had a crap tonne more corporate experience it's not like he's anything but consistent there. 

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Even Bobby's is dark now.  Why?  It's not like Gio and Dante needed mood lighting. 

Tracy is going to get emotional whiplash by changing her mind so suddenly, and so often.  Still not enjoying her with Martin, and will be surprised if that changes.

For me, even this slightly softened version of Jason has no chemistry with Sasha, and I fault both characters.  Still hoping that Holly and Brennan somehow colluded on the DNA test, so we can find out that Sasha has no Scorpio blood after all, and she can ride off into the sunset, either alone or with Cody. I'm still undecided on him. 

Still waiting to see Rocco, Danny and Scout.  Maybe Dante can leave Gio home next time.

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1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

So Sasha is okay possibly taking money from Sidwell, a man she knows is bad news, but not Jason, because that will give other Qs the idea they can tell her what to do? She is too stupid to live.

Not to mention he only offered her $250k.  If she’s going to seriously consider taking money from him, she should have countered with $2.5 million. Even in PC, 250k isn’t going to get her far, especially with a baby. 

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3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

So Sasha is okay possibly taking money from Sidwell, a man she knows is bad news, but not Jason, because that will give other Qs the idea they can tell her what to do? She is too stupid to live.

At least she can be sure that Sidwell won't be so base, such a control freak as to even contemplate buying her unborn baby a sweater.  

Some things are just too awful to even consider.

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4 hours ago, Daisy said:

I know apparently we're supposed to hate Drew but is he wrong? Curtis seems to me like he's throwing a fit that he wasn't made CEO for a company he had zero experience running, and considering that Drew also turned down Ned who had a crap tonne more corporate experience it's not like he's anything but consistent there. 

Drew was going to keep Curtis as CEO of Aurora until he needed a gift for Michael because he was going after Michael's wife so i really can't fault Curtis for blaming Drew about that at least.

Turning down Ned was out of spite, not because of Aurora's best interests.

7 minutes ago, Artsda said:

Why would Kristina care about her family member Valentine owning the house. Valentine and Alexis were close. 

I had completely forgotten that. I couldn't figure out why Kristina was so against Valentin.

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Good episode.

Strange to see Jason having conversations with people that are not about "the business" or killing people.  Kinda refreshing.

Brucas is back! When they kissed at the bar I was yelling at Brad to tell Lucas the truth about the Selina/Portia bargaining chip.  No more secrets!  Why would Lucas be mad since Portia did do the crime.  I hope that's what Brad is going to tell him.

Martin/Alexis/Tracy stuff was fun.  Until Gio's little saying from his mom (which I like but .. it's Gio).

I wanted Valentin's scowly head to pop up in the window when Lulu entered his house, like it did in Prague.

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13 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

So Sasha is okay possibly taking money from Sidwell, a man she knows is bad news, but not Jason, because that will give other Qs the idea they can tell her what to do? She is too stupid to live.

I'm telling you, it's Michael's spawn. It must bring brain worm with it. Sasha has become an even bigger dolt since she tumbled into bed with Michael.

Kristina is now such a dark shadow. Every time she pops-up all I can think is here we go again. How many times will she mention Ava or mybaby/daughter.

I cannot overstate how much I despise Lulu. Thanks for messing up, Cyrus.

 

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Well, Sasha did come to Port Charles because she was running a con.  And Holly is her mother, who taught her all about the con life.  So maybe Sasha isn't the reformed con, maybe she's just a con artist who will always return to her roots. 

I am tired of her I am woman hear me roar bs.  Is she going to scream at Jason again because he thinks he's saving her from Sidwell, you know the guy who kidnapped her and then locked her up with a bomb?  How SEXIST and STUPID of Jason, huh?

Edited by CeChase
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12 hours ago, Artsda said:

Why would Kristina care about her family member Valentine owning the house. Valentine and Alexis were close. 

Why would anyone care that they're buying Valentin's former house? It's not like a murder happened there. The only thing I'd worry about is that I'd be the legal owner. I know Lucy talked about taking over the title, but I'd still want some sort of iron-clad guarantee it was mine, all mine.

9 hours ago, graight said:

I wanted Valentin's scowly head to pop up in the window when Lulu entered his house, like it did in Prague.

Total missed opportunity.

2 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

I cannot overstate how much I despise Lulu. Thanks for messing up, Cyrus.

Lulu is so one-note. Charlotte, Charlotte, Charlotte. (/à la Jan Brady.) Her conversation with Spinelli was pretty funny: "When I'm not trying to get my daughter back, I'm spending all my time with Rocco. When I'm not with Rocco, I'm working." 

2 hours ago, CeChase said:

So maybe Sasha isn't the reformed con, maybe she's just a con artist who will always return to her roots. 

Which would make more sense if she wasn't thinking about making a deal with Sidwell, who has caused her and Holly a whole bunch of trouble. Unless Jens has a sudden traumatic brain injury, he should see through anything Sasha tries to pull. We've seen Sasha in exactly one con: pretending to be Nina's daughter, and that wasn't even her idea. Her life in Port Charles went downhill from there.

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1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Lulu is so one-note. Charlotte, Charlotte, Charlotte. (/à la Jan Brady.) Her conversation with Spinelli was pretty funny: "When I'm not trying to get my daughter back, I'm spending all my time with Rocco. When I'm not with Rocco, I'm working." 

Me: Liar!

I said that out loud to my TV.

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For a town that has billionaires, international supervillains, a mob boss, and an outpost of the WSB, security everywhere seems to be extremely lax. I mean Sidwell just waltzed right in to the Quartermaine kitchen, where billionaires and a longtime hit man who presumably still has a slew of enemies live. I know two of PCPD’s finest also live there, but I’m using finest in terms of looks there tbh. 

Can Lulu and Kristina start a relationship and have a daughter together so that we won’t have to listen to them prattle on about “MY DAUGHTER!” individually? I’m just so tired. 

I wish Drew would try to prove to Willow that he walks on water and then he drowns. 

Can we have Sasha do the opposite of Mac losing his accent and she gets hit on the head and remembers that Holly sent her to a Swedish boarding school for a month as a toddler or something and now she has an accent? The enunciating is just so glaring at times. 

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Tracy, telling Sasha she's smarter than Willow is not the compliment you may think it is.

Highlight of the week: Maxie today saying "Lulu, what are you doing?!" with the subtext in her tone clearly saying "Lulu, you IDIOT, what the hell?" KSt is great at delivering lines just the right way. LOL at Maxie wondering if Lulu trying to break into a hotel room in a maid's uniform was role-playing with a new fling.

So how long now 'til Lulu blows up the Gio secret? AH did a great job with the WTF?! reaction to Marty's notes. 

I am hoping to see Dante and Lucky re-establishing their friendship and more Dante-Lulu scenes of getting closer once Dante realizes BLQ, Cody and Lois have betrayed his trust/kept this secret.

Curtis being in scenes with Laura is one of the very few times he's tolerable.

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Ow, Drew blackmails Portia. Both have done sleazy stuff so I can’t decide who is the worst in this situation

And Lulu stumbles on the Brook Lynn/Dante secret while snooping at Martin’s place

4 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

once Dante realizes BLQ, Cody and Lois have betrayed his trust/kept this secret.

I forget, does Cody know about the secret baby?

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5 minutes ago, DanaK said:

I forget, does Cody know about the secret baby?

Yes, he and BLQ had a conversation a few weeks (could be months, with GH's time?) ago where he said he remembered her saying she was pregnant, and he agreed to drop her off to take a bus. He confirmed to her he never told Dante or anyone else that she was pregnant. Thus, his "what if something did come from it" line today in response to Dante line's about that summer and BL.

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Back in the day, I wasn't a fan of Babe on AMC as played by AH.  All this time I thought it was solely due to the way that Babe was written, but I'm now beginning to thing that AH played a big part in how I felt because I'm having similar feelings about Lulu.  I'm not crazy about how Lulu's been written since she woke up, but I'm realizing that there's something about the way that AH is playing her that's exacerbating the irritation I feel whenever Babe is on screen. I just don't think it's a coincidence.

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Oh, Brad. You just can't help yourself, can you? How many times do your lies have to wreck your life before you stop? A few more, it seems.

I can do without Martin's pity party.

46 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Tracy, telling Sasha she's smarter than Willow is not the compliment you may think it is.

Especially given Sasha's delusion that having Jason as the baby's putative father somehow means he'll keep the Qs at bay.

42 minutes ago, DanaK said:

Ow, Drew blackmails Portia. Both have done sleazy stuff so I can’t decide who is the worst in this situation

They both deserve whatever bad news is coming. It's about time Portia saw some consequences of her actions. I usually hate Portia's stricken face, but it was put to excellent use today for a change.

Wow, the MetroCourt security on all levels is TERRIBLE. Flimsy room windows, easy-access locker rooms where uniforms can be "borrowed," key cards for anyone to obtain, etc. How no one has sued Carly and Olivia is amazing.

Once again, Martin demonstrates terrible client privacy. He couldn't ask the front desk for a safe big enough to hold his briefcase?

When do pregnant people start to feel the baby move? And wow, Sasha is cheap. As @Sake614 pointed out, $250,000 isn't all that much money.

Edited by dubbel zout
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3 hours ago, ciarra said:

Except when I'm supposed to be at a meeting, I'm yammering at Charlie's.  btw, if you're going to rebrand, why keep the Charlie's name? 

Because Kristina is as dumb as a box of rocks. 

Also, nepo baby talking about Ava's shoe box, she who never had to feel the money pinch. Take a seat, loser.

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58 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Yes, he and BLQ had a conversation a few weeks (could be months, with GH's time?) ago where he said he remembered her saying she was pregnant, and he agreed to drop her off to take a bus.

I thought summer camp didn't mean the entire summer, but a few weeks?  She'd have to get pregnant, miss a period, then find a pregnancy test.

How long was your summer camp?

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14 minutes ago, ciarra said:

I thought summer camp didn't mean the entire summer, but a few weeks?  She'd have to get pregnant, miss a period, then find a pregnancy test.

How long was your summer camp?

The longest week of my life, it was 34 years ago and I still remember every dreadful moment including every REO Speedwagon song they played at the dance on the last night.  

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^Hey, "Don't Let Him Go" was a decent song! 😁

Jeez. Jason couldn't kill Cyrus cuz of Danny. Anna forbids him from killing Sidwell. Can't kill Drew cuz of Scout. Give this poor hitman a break!  

Poor Maxie, Deception is turning into the dumping ground for family and friends who need jobs. 

Why didn't Sasha just leave town when nobody knew the baby was a Q? No, she thought it would be much easier to keep the baby from the Q's clutches by announcing the father is a Q, continuing to live at the Q's, and working for the Q's. And now she's trusting a guy who literally left her locked in a room with a bomb about to blow up. ...Sign up for MENSA, girl! 

Edited by TVbitch
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Lots going on today, felt like it moved a few stories forward.  

It's interesting to me that so many of the deeper conversations of recent weeks have taken place between Dante and Cody.  Liking it. 

Love Maxie holding the line for Deception.  She and Felicia have a talent for telling the truth. 

The Brad and Lucas scenes were poignant.  I can see someone falling in love with Lucas, but I've never been able to warm to Brad, and don't get what Lucas sees in him.

Emma's course load sounds a lot more like pre-med than pre-Deception to me.  

Tracy.  I love Tracy, but they're doing something with her that I think even the masterful JE is struggling with.  Maybe she's waiting for the writers to make up their minds about that whole storyline, I don't know.  But one minute she's a shrew, and the next she's encouraging, all in the same scene. For me, it's a departure from where they (including JE) had been taking her, and I don't like it.  Bring back the Tracy who fell in love with Gregory.  Maybe Rocco or Danny or Scout need someone to talk to, since their parents are all so busy.

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2 minutes ago, JMO said:

But one minute she's a shrew, and the next she's encouraging, all in the same scene.

They even lampshaded that a bit when Sasha told her she was getting whiplash. It doesn't solve the problem, Show!

3 minutes ago, JMO said:

Bring back the Tracy who fell in love with Gregory.  Maybe Rocco or Danny or Scout need someone to talk to, since their parents are all so busy.

Yes, please! I think Tracy would be a good sounding board, and JE is really, really good with younger actors.

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3 hours ago, norahs99 said:

Back in the day, I wasn't a fan of Babe on AMC as played by AH.  All this time I thought it was solely due to the way that Babe was written, but I'm now beginning to thing that AH played a big part in how I felt because I'm having similar feelings about Lulu.  I'm not crazy about how Lulu's been written since she woke up, but I'm realizing that there's something about the way that AH is playing her that's exacerbating the irritation I feel whenever Babe is on screen. I just don't think it's a coincidence.

I've been trying to give her the benefit of the doubt because I loathed her character on AMC.  Babe is Love, my flat ass.  

The way she talks is the same, always sounding like she's on the edge of breaking into tears, no matter what the hell she's saying.  Not a fan.

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Culture Check: How can we discuss a character's or actor's appearance without objectifying them? How can we express likes or dislikes and still respect an individual's humanity or be mindful that a character represents a person someone else might relate to or identify with?

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