S07.E07: Pork Butt and a Mall Walker

[jewel21]

Bonnie and Adam go on a double date with Jill and Andy. Also, Tammy recruits Christy to mediate a sensitive situation with Marjorie.

Airdate: 11.14.2019

[TheLotusFlower]

I'm glad they finally addressed the issue of being sober with a spouse who drinks a lot.  I always thought Adam was a bad match for Bonnie because he drinks so much, and was still smoking weed for a while.  I liked seeing this side of Jill.  It's good to see her being so serious about her sobriety.

[Agent 817]

What I have always admired about this series is that while it gets a lot of laughs out of me, there is always room for serious moments. Even some of those serious moments really hit me at times. This was one of those moments.

I have never doubted Jaime Pressly as an actress. Sure, back in the 1990s (even into the early 2000s), she may have had roles as a sexpot, white trash girl, or even sometimes a role in that Mortal Kombat Conquest series (Remember that show?). Not to say that she was typecast, because she had other roles that weren't like what I had mentioned. Even Joy on My Name is Earl had some depth to her than what was seen on the surface at first.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. That scene showed some great acting ability from her. She really put a lot of emotion into that scene, as well as the scene when she talked to Bonnie. I really liked how she did in this episode.

As for anything else, I did find myself laughing so hard during that scene with Adam and Andy being drunk. I also liked the B-plot and this is probably the first time we had seen Marjorie have a story going on in the show for a while, rather than be the voice-of-reason (She had a story of her own last season). Sure, the B-plot, at first, was about Tammy wanting to move out, but then there was another factor in that story.

Personally, this may have been my favorite episode of season 7 thus far. That's just me, though.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Agent 817

[Harvey]

So many good moments in this episode. I loved it when Marjorie tried to set Tammy up with a 72 year old, and when Tammy was like: why would Margerie be happy that I am moving out? And she towered over Christy in that threatening way. Christie's low standards when it comes to dating were also funny, it reminded me of Lisa from Suburgatory who had the same thing going on.

I get where Tammy is coming from, living together with dominating roommates is hard and you just want to get away. Maybe they could fix it if Tammy comminucated her needs and told Margerie what are the things she does that bother her.

[VanillaBeanne]

I loved this episode too. The writing was pitch perfect for all of the story lines, Bonnie and Adan blaming each other for their lack of friends was adorable and we got too see more of Andy (and Jill being happy with him).  
 

What I love about this show overall, and about about this episode, the last one with Kristy’s boss and Bonnie’s shrink, and the Wendy episode before that is that because there are so many interesting characters played by great actors, you can have episodes that are non-Bonnie or Kristy-centric and they don’t feel like filler episodes.  

[iMonrey]

Good episode for both Jill and Marjorie. I do wonder whether it will work out between Jill and Andy in the long run though. 

[nodorothyparker]

Good episode.  I've idly wondered at points what Marjorie does besides be everything to everybody and now we know that she hasn't worked in a long time and she's struggling.  It's a very real issue for a lot of older women to be widowed and not be set up nearly as well as they might have hoped because of a husband's final illness, etc.  The saleswoman's condescension over whether as an older woman she would know how to go online and fill out an application highlighted what she's up against trying to break back into the job market.

Tammy and Christy were great in the bathroom scene commiserating on their living situations.  

The Bonnie/Adam couples dating with Jill/Andy plot really hit what I think this show does so well.  Bonnie and Adam were hysterical always blaming each other for things not working out with other pairings while Jill and Andy were lovely and serious in acknowledging that not every alcoholic is going to be like Bonnie and be just fine watching their partner drink himself stupid on occasion or tasting beer on him afterward.  The show has been such a great vehicle for Jaime Pressly, who has such great comedic timing and a history of playing eye candy that it's always a bit of a pleasant surprise when she pulls out the serious acting chops.  I like that they didn't take a position on one or the other being wrong, only that Jill who's had a rough time much more recently staying sober has to do what feels right for her.

Andy is simply adorable.  

[Bort]

If Marjorie hadn’t needed Tammy’s rent, I’d have thought they were going to go with Christy and Tammy rooming together. 

[nodorothyparker]

I thought that's where they were going at first too.  It would make all the sense for Christy and Tammy to be roommates if the show didn't seem to be married to the Bonnie and Christy have to be completely enmeshed with each other dynamic.

[kwnyc]

And Christy actually helped her sponsor, Marjorie, by giving her some of the support M. needed. It was one of those moments that Christy herself doesn't realize that she's doing something right, helping someone else,and being a grown-up thoughtful person. And to her credit, Marjorie accepted it.

Also, the ladies on the couch, wrapped in comforters, scarfing the food samples at Williams-Sonoma was GOLD.

Edited November 15, 2019 by kwnyc
Additional thoughts

[proserpina65]

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

The Bonnie/Adam couples dating with Jill/Andy plot really hit what I think this show does so well.  Bonnie and Adam were hysterical always blaming each other for things not working out with other pairings while Jill and Andy were lovely and serious in acknowledging that not every alcoholic is going to be like Bonnie and be just fine watching their partner drink himself stupid on occasion or tasting beer on him afterward.  The show has been such a great vehicle for Jaime Pressly, who has such great comedic timing and a history of playing eye candy that it's always a bit of a pleasant surprise when she pulls out the serious acting chops.  I like that they didn't take a position on one or the other being wrong, only that Jill who's had a rough time much more recently staying sober has to do what feels right for her.

I really liked that it emphasized how what each woman needed to stay sober was different.  Bonnie being able to use Adam's occasional drinking-to-stupidness as an example to her that she no longer wanted to do that herself was enlightening because I wondered how she dealt with his drinking.  And Jill, with her multiple recent relapses, couldn't deal with watching that, which makes perfect sense for her character.  As does her not even considering that Andy could just stop drinking because he wanted to do so.

I also really enjoyed Marjorie getting a weightier story than usual.  The 'supporting' characters on this show are so rich for exploration that it's great when the writers/producers actually do it.

[Bort]

“We brought these from home!”

[proserpina65]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Good episode for both Jill and Marjorie. I do wonder whether it will work out between Jill and Andy in the long run though. 

I think it can, because Andy can just not drink, like other people who aren't alcoholics can.  The real challenge is seeing how he deals with the usual cloud of crises which tends to swirl around the gang.  We've seen Adam struggle with that a little bit early on, and obviously Patrick had major problems.  Hopefully Andy can stick it out because I like him and Jill together.

[eel21788]

4 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Good episode.  I've idly wondered at points what Marjorie does besides be everything to everybody and now we know that she hasn't worked in a long time and she's struggling.  It's a very real issue for a lot of older women to be widowed and not be set up nearly as well as they might have hoped because of a husband's final illness, etc.  

She would probably be able to apply for a reverse mortgage and continue to live quite well in her own home for a long time.

[TheLotusFlower]

3 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

I think it can, because Andy can just not drink, like other people who aren't alcoholics can.  The real challenge is seeing how he deals with the usual cloud of crises which tends to swirl around the gang.  We've seen Adam struggle with that a little bit early on, and obviously Patrick had major problems.  Hopefully Andy can stick it out because I like him and Jill together.

I agree with you.  Like Andy said, "Or...I could just not drink."  I loved that part.  Jill had built this whole big thing up in her head because of how she responds to alcohol, not realizing that Andy could basically take it or leave it because drinking not a controlling factor in his life.  I think he's such a positive influence in Jill's life.  She seems so much more grounded with him, and I really hope the writers don't turn this into a Christy/Patrick situation.  Of course with them, in addition to Patrick not wanting to be second place to the girls, they also had the long distance thing to deal with and Christy didn't want to move in with him when he offered.  I think Andy would be more understanding of Jill's need to be there for her friends because there's no distance issue, and also Andy just seems to be a pretty laid back guy about  most things.

[Harvey]

I just caught a cute piece of continuity. In the episode you can see that Andy is very into barbecuing stuff and cooking things using that machine. Well, in the very first episode he appeared in, he remarked what an amazing barbecue machine Jill had and he was dismayed by the thought that no one is using it. But now that they are together he can live it up with his A grade grill/stick burning smoker.

[sleepysuzy]

As the teetotaler spouse of an alcoholic myself, this episode resonated with me. He told me that when he first got sober, he figured he would end up with another recovered addict because he didn't think anyone just never drank alcohol. I won't touch it because of family history of addiction. Seeing Jill assume that she and Andy had to break up reminded me of that mindset. 

I kind of want to see Christy on a date with Marjorie's 72 year old friend, but I also just want her to not date at all. She really needs to get into therapy more than a relationship. I rewatched earlier seasons recently, and Christy has been through so much that she has never dealt with. Aside from  Bonnie's terrible parenting and her own addictions, she was in an abusive relationship with Violet's dad when she was 17 and she was raped by a stranger at a party. She also really was mugged when she gambled and won with the rent money. We've repeatedly seen her end what appear to be healthy relationships with men (season one Adam,  Patrick), but jump right to sex with men who are toxic for her (the alcoholic fireman, Baxter, her married boss, the college guys). Instead of opening up more "serious issues" to deal with, I'd live to see the show really delve into all of the stuff we know about Christy the way it has for Bonnie.

[jewel21]

I really loved the scene between Jill and Andy where she wanted to break up with him due to his drinking. It was so well acted and you could see how both parties were upset at the thought of not being together. And I loved Andy saying he would simply stop drinking and Jill's surprise that he could do something like that. It was so well done. The Bonnie and Adam blaming one another story line for not having married friends to hang out with has been one before on other shows but still cracked me up. 

[Chaos Theory]

I think it makes sense for Jill to not be able to handle a partner who drinks.   It took her three attempts to get sober and is still probably a daily struggle for her.   It must be a shock that someone can just say they can just not drink and be perfectly fine with it.

[Blakeston]

It was sweet that Andy was so willing to give up drinking for Jill, but I have to wonder what the long-term ramifications will be for their relationship.

Giving up booze might sound like it would be easy for a non-alcoholic. But it can be surprisingly difficult.

I drank sporadically from 18 - 25, then had to quit because of stomach problems. When I realized that alcohol was causing me issues, my reaction was, "I'll happily quit drinking. Anything that will help me avoid pain is fine by me."

And I haven't drunk since then - but holy crap do I miss it! While I didn't drink much to begin with, i enjoyed drinking with my family on holidays, and going to bars with my friends and colleagues every so often, and occasionally doing wine-tastings, or having wine or cocktails on vacation. Being excluded from those things when the opportunities arise can be pretty damn rough. And not being a regular at the bar with my colleagues has definitely hurt my career.

What I'm getting at is, this might be a lot harder than Andy realizes. Hanging out with his cop friends, in particular, is probably going to be radically different for him. You don't have to be an alcoholic to really miss drinking.

[Bastet]

23 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

What I'm getting at is, this might be a lot harder than Andy realizes. Hanging out with his cop friends, in particular, is probably going to be radically different for him. You don't have to be an alcoholic to really miss drinking.

Is he planning on never drinking at all during their relationship, or just not drinking when he's with her or going to be with her later that day/night?  Because if he's going out with his friends and then going home, it doesn't affect her at all if he drinks, so he wouldn't have to give up drinking entirely to accommodate her needs.  (I'm assuming they still live separately, but if he's moved in with her, that's a different story.)

[Blakeston]

33 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Is he planning on never drinking at all during their relationship, or just not drinking when he's with her or going to be with her later that day/night?  Because if he's going out with his friends and then going home, it doesn't affect her at all if he drinks, so he wouldn't have to give up drinking entirely to accommodate her needs.  (I'm assuming they still live separately, but if he's moved in with her, that's a different story.)

Refraining from drinking at home would be the more reasonable approach, IMO. But there are alcoholics who are adamant that they don't want to date someone who drinks, period. 

Andy said he would give up drinking, without giving any exceptions. They might have different perceptions moving forward of how things will work.

[Sarah 103]

On 11/15/2019 at 12:34 PM, kariyaki said:

If Marjorie hadn’t needed Tammy’s rent, I’d have thought they were going to go with Christy and Tammy rooming together. 

On 11/15/2019 at 12:50 PM, nodorothyparker said:

I thought that's where they were going at first too.  It would make all the sense for Christy and Tammy to be roommates if the show didn't seem to be married to the Bonnie and Christy have to be completely enmeshed with each other dynamic.

I thought they were at least going to swap roommates/housemates for the episode, because this is a sitcom. 

On 11/15/2019 at 3:14 PM, proserpina65 said:

I really liked that it emphasized how what each woman needed to stay sober was different.  Bonnie being able to use Adam's occasional drinking-to-stupidness as an example to her that she no longer wanted to do that herself was enlightening because I wondered how she dealt with his drinking.  And Jill, with her multiple recent relapses, couldn't deal with watching that, which makes perfect sense for her character.  As does her not even considering that Andy could just stop drinking because he wanted to do so.

It was great the episode showed that Bonnie and Jill have different comfort levels, but that it was okay. It was about what was best for the individual, and the two friends didn't judge each for wanting/needing different things. 

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

What I'm getting at is, this might be a lot harder than Andy realizes. Hanging out with his cop friends, in particular, is probably going to be radically different for him. You don't have to be an alcoholic to really miss drinking.

I wonderded about that too. The fact that he is willing to do it is huge and shows how much he loves Jill, but I wonder if he was fully thought this through. Is he going to be able to endure the teasing from his cop friends when he goes out drinking with them and he orders soda. 

[Chaos Theory]

Of course things need to be discussed more fully but I think it says something he might enjoy doing for Jill.   And I know plenty of people who gave up drinking for one reason or another and don’t miss it at all.   My sister in laws brother is a cop who used to drink before he got married but once they had kids he stopped.  He still gets promotions and even hangs out with his friends.   People’s priorities change.  

[nodorothyparker]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

Is he planning on never drinking at all during their relationship, or just not drinking when he's with her or going to be with her later that day/night?  Because if he's going out with his friends and then going home, it doesn't affect her at all if he drinks, so he wouldn't have to give up drinking entirely to accommodate her needs.  (I'm assuming they still live separately, but if he's moved in with her, that's a different story.)

I do hope this is something the show follows up on.  I don't think the show has told us if Andy already lives with Jill, which I did wonder about when she talked about wanting to keep "a sober home."  If he doesn't, is she going to care if he grabs a beer with his cop friends after work and goes back to his own place where she doesn't have to see it?  Or if Adam wants to hang out?  He was pretty quick to respond to Adam's text asking him to go have a beer.  Since they all otherwise like each other, will they give the couples thing another try only as a dry get-together?  I'd actually be curious to see what Adam's reaction to being asked to do that would be.

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

Of course things need to be discussed more fully but I think it says something he might enjoy doing for Jill.   And I know plenty of people who gave up drinking for one reason or another and don’t miss it at all.   My sister in laws brother is a cop who used to drink before he got married but once they had kids he stopped.  He still gets promotions and even hangs out with his friends.   People’s priorities change.  

I’ve been promoted too. And I even manage to hang out with friends!

But I’ve also unquestionably missed out on various networking and social opportunities by not being at the bar. Many people I know who don’t drink are in the same boat. It depends on where you work, and how much your friends’ social lives revolve around drinking.

Most cops I know would take a whole lot of mockery from other cops if they suddenly stopped drinking because their girlfriend doesn’t like it.

[Irlandesa]

36 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

But I’ve also unquestionably missed out on various networking and social opportunities by not being at the bar.

Why weren't you at the bar?  I've never liked the taste of alcohol but I've still joined colleagues at a bar and had something non-alcoholic.  Granted, it was easier since it was every couple of weeks and no one went to get drunk but it's still doable.

I do think Andy giving up drinking has a good potential follow-up episode.  Drinking can be such a social event.  What will that mean to his social life?  Is it okay for him to drink if he's not going to see her?

[SmithW6079]

14 hours ago, Blakeston said:

But I’ve also unquestionably missed out on various networking and social opportunities by not being at the bar. Many people I know who don’t drink are in the same boat. It depends on where you work, and how much your friends’ social lives revolve around drinking.

Most cops I know would take a whole lot of mockery from other cops if they suddenly stopped drinking because their girlfriend doesn’t like it.

You can still go to bars and not drink alcohol. I don't drink and I go to bars. I have no issue with getting either a soda or seltzer and cranberry juice, and fuck the ones who make a crack that I'm a teatotaler. Never felt I lost any networking opportunities because I don't drink, and if my friends are that shallow that the basis of our friendships is alcohol, I don't need those people in my life. 

Andy's offer to not drink isn't just because his girlfriend "doesn't like it," it's because she is an alcoholic and had asked him to help her maintain her sobriety. 

[proserpina65]

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 4:53 PM, eel21788 said:

She would probably be able to apply for a reverse mortgage and continue to live quite well in her own home for a long time.

True, it's not like she's likely to worry about leaving the house to her son.

On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 4:10 PM, Blakeston said:

Giving up booze might sound like it would be easy for a non-alcoholic. But it can be surprisingly difficult.

I had to stop and think hard to figure out the last time I had a drink.  And I've got a bottle of wine in my fridge that's been open for more than a year (keep meaning to throw that out), so for some of us, it's not that difficult. 

And he can still go out with his buddies and just not drink.  It might be harder because they're cops, and I think that would be an interesting storyline to explore, but it might not be that hard.

Either way, I'm interested to see where this goes.

On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 8:50 PM, Irlandesa said:

Why weren't you at the bar?  I've never liked the taste of alcohol but I've still joined colleagues at a bar and had something non-alcoholic.  Granted, it was easier since it was every couple of weeks and no one went to get drunk but it's still doable.

I do think Andy giving up drinking has a good potential follow-up episode.  Drinking can be such a social event.  What will that mean to his social life?  Is it okay for him to drink if he's not going to see her?

I like alcohol, but have gone for long periods without it and still went out with friends to bars and clubs.  Mainly because I really like dancing.  And they liked that I could be the designated driver if necessary.

[funky-rat]

On 11/15/2019 at 9:00 PM, sleepysuzy said:

As the teetotaler spouse of an alcoholic myself, this episode resonated with me. He told me that when he first got sober, he figured he would end up with another recovered addict because he didn't think anyone just never drank alcohol. I won't touch it because of family history of addiction. Seeing Jill assume that she and Andy had to break up reminded me of that mindset. 

I never had any issue either.  My husband was a binge drinker from age 15 - age 24.  Then he was stone sober for 17 years.  I rarely drank during that time.  He said I could, but it just never seemed fair to me.  I had always been the designated driver (although most of the drinking he did was at home, with some work "friends").   I get migraines, and I have rosacea, and alcohol just doesn't really taste good to me, and I get no buzz from it, so it's easy for me to say no.

I drank a few here and there when he started drinking again briefly (and to his credit, he NEVER let it get out of hand, but came to the realization that he battles too many demons, and it would have just led back to the drinking getting more out of control eventually), but again, wondered why I was bothering.  Haven't had a drop since the day he had his last drop.  I just don't need it, and I am proud of him for doing what he's doing, and he if can do it, then I can too.

[Bort]

33 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

And he can still go out with his buddies and just not drink.  It might be harder because they're cops, and I think that would be an interesting storyline to explore, but it might not be that hard.

Jill may not even be asking Andy to do even that. This may come up in a future episode but for now, we know that Jill doesn’t want any alcohol consumed in her house and doesn’t want to taste it when she kisses Andy. As far as I know, they don’t officially live together so if Andy wants to go drink with his cop buddies or with Adam and he goes to his own home afterward, that would probably be acceptable circumstances for Jill because it wouldn’t go against the two things that she mentioned. 

[ctlady]

And.....just like that the writers go back to ignoring Wendy.  Even the guest stars get more dialogue and screen time.  If the writers don't know what to do with her they should just write her out.  Writing Tammy in just thinned out distributing any sort of equal time - ugh!

[kwnyc]

Well, the actor gets a decent chunk of change and health insurance...and a regular gig on a show that's not going off the air anytime soon. So there's that. (I have friends in the business, and a recurring/regular role REALLY makes life much easier.)

Also, I bet they keep her around because she's easy to work with and probably a total pro. When background/recurring types turn into regulars, it's because the producers want them there. 

I'm sure there will be a Wendy-centric episode some time (I've often thought she's the character I'd most like to see a spin-off from), and in the mean time, she gets good laughs and works in one of the best ensembles on TV.