S15.E02: Raising Hell

[Shannonsspirit]

9 hours ago, KayCordingly said:

Honestly, I haven't had any faith in the show for several seasons now. it ceased being scary, having any real stakes, of making cohesive sense... I can't even remember how long ago. I mainly just watch for the actors. 

The epicness of the storylines talk the talk, but they don't have the budget to walk the walk. So instead of the whole world burning like it should be right now, we get a small town that doesn't even have a visible forcefield. Those little Adobe Photoshop splooches that happened whenever an invisible ghost ran into the forcefield were adorable though. It's like they were made by the littlest intern who could.

I gotta say though, after turning God into a slimy villain more despicable than Metatron, as well as retconning Kevin's fate, it's difficult for me to believe that they're not intentionally sabotaging the show.

I had the same thought about them sabotaging the show. I considered that I am so completely disappointed in the retcon of Chuck, dismantling of established lore and almost, if it weren't so sad, laughable drama, that I am just bitter. 

They could have written a final season that unified 15 years; instead,  they are erasing all we knew to be true. 

Why?

[starfishka]

The writers, directors and (some) actors are not even trying anymore. This gonna be a long season.

Am willing to watch this episode again so I think I like it better than the previous one(s). I don´t expect much from this show anymore and it had 5 seconds of badass Dean so am kind of happy. 

Edited October 19, 2019 by starfishka

[Whodunnit]

I'm trying to find a positive thing to say about this episode... I know! Amara's favorite city is my sister's hometown.

[Morrigan2575]

10 hours ago, SueB said:

And it’s sitting in Dean’s glove compartment!

Thank You! They made a point of highlighting the box but, I wasn't sure what it was. 

[Aeryn13]

Killing Chuck means killing the world so just shooting him with the gun again should be out of the question. 

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

Killing Chuck means killing the world so just shooting him with the gun again should be out of the question. 

Will respond in bitter spoilers.

[foxfreakinmulder]

12 hours ago, SueB said:

I liked seeing Kevin but it felt like a ‘wrap’ on his character.  That’s hard to see.

I agree. I also believe the only reason Kevin wasn't in heaven is the bad/lazy writers aren't smart enough to come up with a story line to bring the character back for his "wrap" so having him in hell is all they could think of. I do hope as I said in my other post that Amara will connect with Sam and Dean and send Kevin to heaven.

[Commando Cody]

I don't have much to say except that everyone is "phoning it in" this season.

I don't think the episodes are going to get better.  It's a shame that this is how they end this series. It makes me wish they had ended years ago. What a terrible way to go out. 

I am hoping for a "gem" episode. I won't hold my breath.

The whole Rowena/Ketch thing - cringy.  Just cringy.  

There was too much wrong with the continuity and the canon.  They are probably just going to play fast and loose with everything until the end. 

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

Not yet, but this final season still has a long way to go.

Oh, sure.  I wouldn't put it past them to retcon it later.  But, they specifically mentioned that it did happen this episode, which is probably the only thing they didn't try to retcon.  So, good job show for one piece of continuity?

[tennisgurl]

Please tell me we aren’t going to spend all season in this stupid neighborhood with these stupid non creepy ghosts. Honestly, are they even trying anymore? Or are we full meta, with Chuck as the Dabb stand in who is just so bored of his show/world that he doesn’t even care anymore that he is ignoring all of the previously established rules so he can blow it up and peace out?

[Icarus]

Like many I was underwhelmed with this episode, certainly not frightening and rather boring. I did mention several weeks ago that Jared seemed to be spending a lot of time away from set and it would appear that Jensen did as well. I had hoped that they would up their hours in this the last season but it seems very obvious that they haven't. They were hardly in any scenes together – and I do miss their interaction. The one thing I did enjoy was watching the “pretty” Jensen looking particularly good!

[Commando Cody]

3 minutes ago, Icarus said:

Like many I was underwhelmed with this episode, certainly not frightening and rather boring. I did mention several weeks ago that Jared seemed to be spending a lot of time away from set and it would appear that Jensen did as well. I had hoped that they would up their hours in this the last season but it seems very obvious that they haven't. They were hardly in any scenes together – and I do miss their interaction. The one thing I did enjoy was watching the “pretty” Jensen looking particularly good!

If they brought in a  new, younger hunter, this would be Charmed - season 8 - all over again. 

[Aeryn13]

3 minutes ago, Commando Cody said:

If they brought in a  new, younger hunter, this would be Charmed - season 8 - all over again. 

I think Jack is supposed to be their Billie already. Currently placeholder Belphagor. I had to roll my eyes when Ketch introduced a pseudo storyline for him. 

[Smad]

I still don't understand, and haven't for Seasons, why they never think to pray to Amara. They kept praying to God after S11 and they keep name dropping her in recent episodes. They ended this episode with everyone saying 'we have no idea what to do' after their bomb idea failed, the shield about to fail and even more ghosts were coming in at the very end.

What is the point of referencing her when you can call on her and ask for help? What's the worst that can happen? She says no? Dean of all people should know that she answers his 'prayers' (unlike God) because she did every time in S11. You have a God problem, just freaking try and contact his sister

I think that's one of the worst 'plot holes' for me so far this Season. Maybe she could help you guys and close the gates and put everyone back where they belong. Maybe she could send Kevin to heaven. Since you have no solution (that even an uber powerful witch can't fix) for the never ending stream of ghosts bearing down on you, CALL AMARA.

I'm still baffled as to why Dean hasn't tried. Because it's just royally stupid not to. Or is that the point? Can't have Dean do something right, have an idea on how to fix it or give him a story?

[Shannonsspirit]

On 10/19/2019 at 8:38 AM, foxfreakinmulder said:

I agree. I also believe the only reason Kevin wasn't in heaven is the bad/lazy writers aren't smart enough to come up with a story line to bring the character back for his "wrap" so having him in hell is all they could think of. I do hope as I said in my other post that Amara will connect with Sam and Dean and send Kevin to heaven.

They did have a story or two, they just chose to ignore it in what they thought to be a mind blowing reveal. Aka retconning Chuck.

An awake, sentient, pissed off Empty and a dying heaven. Tragic souls plummeting to Earth, maybe even Purgatory and Hell, would have provided great stories in the rescue of them and repair of Heaven.

While that was happening, the Empty would be preparing to Void existence, so he can go back to sleep. This could have entailed the engulfment of Chuck and Amara, freed by Jack and Billie.

All unite to stop the Empty and restore Heaven.

But, yeah, retcon Chuck, bring back non scary ghosts that defy lore in broad daylight. Oh and Kevin return from Hell to further establish how evil Chuck is.

I won't watch the rest and end Supernatural with Season 11.

[juppschmitz]

In a variation of what I read on another page: "Stop trying to make Ketch happen!" 

[trudysmom]

16 hours ago, Smad said:

Can't have Dean do something right, have an idea on how to fix it or give him a story?

His storyline, thus his ending legacy looks like it will be anger.  Have him put into words the crapfest of this "storyline" that Chuck is screwing  everyone over like a petulant child because he can (Dabb). 

[PAForrest]

Out of town for a week, but I managed to catch up on a pal's ipad at some point so I could get back home and delete this stinker fast and furiously off my dvr before it's presence did anymore damage to my cable system.

It's all been said already, but sheesh. I know the bar is low now - like below sewer level low - but we're in underground cave-dwelling territory here. Essentially there is no canon at all anymore. They're not even busting it, it's simply nonexistent. This is not Supernatural. I mean, seriously, when the Party City ghosts/not ghosts/not demons/what the hell are they? have to physically get together inside a house for a book club meeting, you know they've given up all pretense of trying because they don't have to.

The cinematography is so bright it's hurting my eyes. I need to borrow Amara's sunglasses. Speaking of which, she was one of the few highlights out of this episode. I'd try and predict what role she might eventually play, friend or foe, but what's the point? The writers don't talk to each other, there's no coordination with the scripts, and there's no game plan. Winging it to the end.

Dabb and Singer are bound and determined to ruin almost every old fan favorite character they bring back, just 'cuz. That's the most cruel cut of all.

The only other scene of worth out of this one was the convo between Dean and Castiel. Dean's anger is far more encompassing than Cas's betrayal, which makes perfect sense. Though at the same time we get more confirmation that Cas's only interest remains Princess Jack, so I frankly can't wait until he moves onto his own thing so I can completely ignore him.

Even Demon Jack-Adjacent was bland and boring in this episode. Apparently he's a one hit wonder.

It's actually depressing how bad this season is.

Edited October 22, 2019 by PAForrest

[Bali]

On 10/17/2019 at 9:28 PM, Pondlass1 said:

I’ve never seen so many blue skies and sunshine in a horror genre series. 

Calling it now- the song for the final finale "Blue skies- smiling at me. Nothing but blue skies do I see."

On 10/17/2019 at 10:14 PM, ahrtee said:

Third thought:  Ketch's handy-dandy "iron filings" gun that disperses ghosts.  Isn't that what salt does. 

No. There was a throw away line that it disperses the ghosts from possessed humans without killing the humans. 

On 10/18/2019 at 8:52 AM, Katy M said:

I put falling in love with your torturer one notch above falling in love with your rapist.  I'll give them that we didn't actually see the torture. But, we do know it happened, and that's one of the few things they didn't try to retcon in this epi.  

Well, me too. But Rowena- now that is a different story. This is the woman who pounced around Hell enjoying it after all. And falling in love is NOT the same as falling into bed. I see Rowena as someone who would totally handcuff Ketch and do things to him. 

On 10/18/2019 at 11:16 AM, Ray Adverb said:

Seems strange that the people of the town are so easily convinced to evacuate by two guys in FBI jackets.  I wonder what happens if they told the truth.

They read the script. They knew they were supposed to go without question.

I enjoy all Rowena. And the main ghost- Dr. Trumbell- that is Mason Capwell from Santa Barbara- he was my favorite on that show. Alas- he is not my favorite ghost. 

The ghosts looked like they were allowed to put on their own makeup. This show is just not the same as it was in the first many seasons. 

Am I the only one who is wondering if Kevin will eventually betray the boys, because well- retcon?

On 10/18/2019 at 7:36 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

Yeah that was a typo I was trying to say "for once". I don't know why my autocorrect changed it. Frankly, I think my phone is evil and enjoys messing with me.

Of course it is. Haven't you been watching? Phones are evil because ghosts are loose and one time there was this ghost that traveled in electrical lines. So, now the ghost that died near the cell phone tower can inhabit everyone that has ever pinged onto that tower. We're all doomed.

[gonzosgirrl]

12 minutes ago, Bali said:

No. There was a throw away line that it disperses the ghosts from possessed humans without killing the humans. 

But so does rock salt, or else Dean would've been dead when Sammy blasted him full in the chest way back in Asylum.

[Bali]

15 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

But so does rock salt, or else Dean would've been dead when Sammy blasted him full in the chest way back in Asylum.

But Rock Salt doesn't let anyone get shot with sparkly confetti like the shot gun. 

OK- full disclosure time: I am one of those people who resorts to humor in times of distress. The end of Supernatural is a time of distress. And the ending I think we're going to get is even more distressing. I'll try to behave. Because it really does sicken me the way the showrunners have destroyed a once great show.

[Bobcatkitten]

I would think getting shot with iron would cause damage to a human. But what do I know? 

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I would think getting shot with iron would cause damage to a human. But what do I know? 

If there's a ghost inside you, when the bullet touches you, the ghost immediately expels from you, thus pushing the bullet out. therefore, it doesn't get the chance to penetrate the skin and enter you causing damage.  Yeah, yeah, that's it.  Although, it apparently did do some damage since he was being taken away in an ambulance.  Nobody's ever had to go in an ambulance after getting hit by rock salt.  So, not sure why we needed the change up.

[Lemuria]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

If there's a ghost inside you, when the bullet touches you, the ghost immediately expels from you, thus pushing the bullet out. therefore, it doesn't get the chance to penetrate the skin and enter you causing damage.  Yeah, yeah, that's it.  Although, it apparently did do some damage since he was being taken away in an ambulance.  Nobody's ever had to go in an ambulance after getting hit by rock salt.  So, not sure why we needed the change up.

I think that Ketch was going to the hospital not because of the iron buckshot but because  Dean shot him with a regular gun. 

[goyour-own-way]

Hi all, new here!

I just finally got around to watching 15x02 yesterday and it just about bored me to tears. It honesty makes me so sad that this show is limping its way to the finish line in such a pathetic manner. Ghosts holding council meetings, the boys stuck in this little town with a bunch of annoying civilians we are supposed to care about but don't, and the story line seems so poorly thought-out. All the ghosts were released from hell, so why are they focused on this one spot? Are we supposed to believe that billion of souls are contained there? 

I was a little hopeful when J2 said they were going to take a leading role in S15, and speak up, but they let us down just like the writers did. 

[Dobian]

You know Chuck is a poor excuse for God when he thinks the ending of Game of Thrones was great.

[Castiels Cat]

On 10/23/2019 at 3:18 PM, Katy M said:

If there's a ghost inside you, when the bullet touches you, the ghost immediately expels from you, thus pushing the bullet out. therefore, it doesn't get the chance to penetrate the skin and enter you causing damage.  Yeah, yeah, that's it.  Although, it apparently did do some damage since he was being taken away in an ambulance.  Nobody's ever had to go in an ambulance after getting hit by rock salt.  So, not sure why we needed the change up.

It was micronized iron. Such small particulates that it would not hurt a human but enough iron to dissipate the ghost apparently. Wink wink.

[Castiels Cat]

On 10/23/2019 at 9:32 AM, Bali said:

Calling it now- the song for the final finale "Blue skies- smiling at me. Nothing but blue skies do I see."

No. There was a throw away line that it disperses the ghosts from possessed humans without killing the humans. 

Well, me too. But Rowena- now that is a different story. This is the woman who pounced around Hell enjoying it after all. And falling in love is NOT the same as falling into bed. I see Rowena as someone who would totally handcuff Ketch and do things to him. 

They read the script. They knew they were supposed to go without question.

I enjoy all Rowena. And the main ghost- Dr. Trumbell- that is Mason Capwell from Santa Barbara- he was my favorite on that show. Alas- he is not my favorite ghost. 

The ghosts looked like they were allowed to put on their own makeup. This show is just not the same as it was in the first many seasons. 

Am I the only one who is wondering if Kevin will eventually betray the boys, because well- retcon?

Of course it is. Haven't you been watching? Phones are evil because ghosts are loose and one time there was this ghost that traveled in electrical lines. So, now the ghost that died near the cell phone tower can inhabit everyone that has ever pinged onto that tower. We're all doomed.

Why did the ghosts chase them to the glowing red line in the first episode rather than just zap around. They are ghosts.

The writing is so bad. Kevin was more menacing when he appeared than most of these world's worst hellspawn spirits. 

And I can't for the life of my understand why Gacy was chasing a woman and her child. He had a type. He was known for murdering a type and it was not little girls.

And was that supposed to be bloody Mary? Wha... 

[Castiels Cat]

On 10/18/2019 at 8:45 PM, foxfreakinmulder said:

I agree with all of this especially Death coming back, he was so cool and of course we have to have a scene with Crowley before the end.

I have a feeling Amara will connect with Sam and Dean and hopefully send Kevin to heaven.

I thought it was funny that when Amara left the hotel room in RENO of all places she used the door like a human would lol.

Why are all the ghost going to this little town and are they invading other towns or is it just this one?

Ghost have meetings? Who da thunk it!

I didn't need to see Ketch again.

I loved Amara and she can easily be God. Yes on Kevin.

I would love Crowley back however rumor has been bridges were burned. And they did cut MS's line in his last episode and then steal it for themselves the next season. Cold that. If they bring him back it will be with a new meetsuit most likely.

[Castiels Cat]

On 10/17/2019 at 9:17 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

Oh, and last week Castiel healed everything including Sam's shirt,  but this week he can't heal Ketch. And the explanation?

Cas: "I don't know why."

Sam: "Maybe you're tired."

Seriously.  The angel is tired. 

He was corrupted by healing Sam last week.

[Castiels Cat]

On 10/17/2019 at 9:21 PM, ILoveReading said:

This is the first episode I think I can say I didn't hate, since Mint Condition.  The most praise I can give it these days.

More retconning, making it up as they go along.  So ghosts can't go to heaven.  LOL.  No.  Miss me with this "God did it' it contradicts everything.

The salt circle clearly didn't take away their power so that

  Hide contents

makes the chase at the end of the last episode even more stupid.

We actually had a Dean/Cas scene where they talked.  I'm glad Dean didn't apologize. 

Dean saving the day was nice, but Sam and Dean were pretty ineffective this whole ep.  Good thing Deus Ex Machina Rowena and Belphegor are there to take care of things. 

I continue to enjoy Dean and Ketch's flirting.  (This is what happened.  Leave me in my bubble).  Dean was so jealous showing up every time Rowena went anywhere near him.  I saw that dirty look you gave Rowena Dean.  I'm glad Ketch survived the episode.  I truly thought he wouldn't. 

But the episode lacked any kind of suspense.  I never felt like anyone of Team Free will was really in any real danger.  I know that someone would have some spell to save the day.  While I know that isn't new, and has happened repeatedly, it doesn't feel earned.  It feels too easy. 

Can't say I'm looking forward to Sam and his connection to God.  It just feels like a repeat of the Amara storyline.  I just don't care about Sam's 4390483908th supernatural affliction.  Just end it already.

But at least Leader Dean came through.  Its my favorite character trait.

I thought Dean and Ketch were season 13 highlights myself... 

I think the issue with Kevin going to heaven was that Chuck smoothed the path for John and Bobby after they were in Hell and he won't do that now.