S15.E02: Raising Hell

[gonzosgirrl]

Original air date October 17, 2019

Dean, Sam and Castiel call on Rowena to help keep the evil souls at bay and get an unexpected assist by Ketch.

Edited October 18, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[gonzosgirrl]

Meh. It was better than the premier,  but that's a pretty low bar.

Canon continues to be a joke. And further to last week's debate, the ghosts can still apparate or teleport or whatever we're calling it. So the foot chase mockery was and is valid.

Always a pleasure to see Kevin. Dean proved that he's a leader who does what needs to be done - to wit, shooting Ketch to prevent the ghosts escaping the trap. Much as I think he should kill Ketch, I'm glad they didn't heap that on his shoulders.

[gonzosgirrl]

Oh, and last week Castiel healed everything including Sam's shirt,  but this week he can't heal Ketch. And the explanation?

Cas: "I don't know why."

Sam: "Maybe you're tired."

Seriously.  The angel is tired. 

Edited October 18, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[ILoveReading]

This is the first episode I think I can say I didn't hate, since Mint Condition.  The most praise I can give it these days.

More retconning, making it up as they go along.  So ghosts can't go to heaven.  LOL.  No.  Miss me with this "God did it' it contradicts everything.

The salt circle clearly didn't take away their power so that

Spoiler

makes the chase at the end of the last episode even more stupid.

We actually had a Dean/Cas scene where they talked.  I'm glad Dean didn't apologize. 

Dean saving the day was nice, but Sam and Dean were pretty ineffective this whole ep.  Good thing Deus Ex Machina Rowena and Belphegor are there to take care of things. 

I continue to enjoy Dean and Ketch's flirting.  (This is what happened.  Leave me in my bubble).  Dean was so jealous showing up every time Rowena went anywhere near him.  I saw that dirty look you gave Rowena Dean.  I'm glad Ketch survived the episode.  I truly thought he wouldn't. 

But the episode lacked any kind of suspense.  I never felt like anyone of Team Free will was really in any real danger.  I know that someone would have some spell to save the day.  While I know that isn't new, and has happened repeatedly, it doesn't feel earned.  It feels too easy. 

Can't say I'm looking forward to Sam and his connection to God.  It just feels like a repeat of the Amara storyline.  I just don't care about Sam's 4390483908th supernatural affliction.  Just end it already.

But at least Leader Dean came through.  Its my favorite character trait.

Edited October 18, 2019 by ILoveReading

[Katy M]

6 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Meh. It was better than the premier,  but that's a pretty low bar.

I am going to have to disagree 100%.  This was terrible.

The only part I liked was when Dean shot ghost/Ketch and the crystal came popping out of his hand.

The Ketch/Rowena romance-Awful.

Chuck likd and threw Kevin in Hell-Ridiculous

Bobby got into Heaven only because Chuck liked them yet threw Kevin into Hell for zero reason-ridiculous.  Although I'm willing to conced that might be a lie.

I could go on, but I don't feel like it.  This was just blech.

[ILoveReading]

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Oh, and last week Castiel healed everything including Sam's shirt,  but this week he can't heal Ketch. And the explanation?

Cas: "I don't know why."

Sam: "Maybe you're tired."

Seriously.  The angel is tired. 

Maybe he knew Dean needed an excuse to check on Ketch and keep Rowena away from him. 

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Pondlass1]

I’ve never seen so many blue skies and sunshine in a horror genre series. 

[Jynnan tonnix]

I'll definitely have to watch this again. I don't do that with a lot of episodes, actually, but in this case I was watching live, and I never can get my closed captioning to work, so I know I missed a lot. Maybe it will become clear once I watch it on the computer.

At any rate, there was actually quite a lot I got a kick out of here. Whether or not that makes it a good episode of this particular show, I couldn't really say. This season, so far, has struck me as almost a reboot of the whole show. That being said, I've only watched the past 3, or maybe part of 4 seasons in real time, so I guess that I couldn't have the same sort of investment in the show, by definition, as someone who has watched from the beginning...But, at any rate, I did enjoy this almost as I might something which was brand-new  if I already had a good grasp of some of the background in an almost comic-book fashion. I don't even know whether that makes sense. Maybe I'll try again on a re-watch.

[gonzosgirrl]

6 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

This season, so far, has struck me as almost a reboot of the whole show

And you just don't do that to a show with a fifteen year run in its final season. I can't forgive Dabb for this.

[SueB]

25 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Maybe he knew Dean needed an excuse to check on Ketch and keep Rowena away from him. 

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

#TeamBubble

[ahrtee]

First thought: Ugh.

Second thought:  If Chuck really wanted to end the world, why only open the gates of one tiny cemetery in the middle of nowhere, instead of all hellgates everywhere (and yes, the later reveal that he's weak and can only do "a few parlor tricks" might explain that, but it took till nearly the end of the episode to hear that.)  That could have been the end of the show in 10 seconds or less. 

Third thought:  Ketch's handy-dandy "iron filings" gun that disperses ghosts.  Isn't that exactly what the salt guns do?  

Other random thoughts:  Very slow.  I kept watching the clock to see how much time was left, not because I wanted it to last longer but because I was surprised there was still so much time left.

So....pretty big high school for a very small town (if the entire population could fit inside and still have room for the heroes to have offices etc.  I guess everyone had somewhere else they could go.  No worries about food, water, beds or bathrooms.  And the police (or anyone) never checked with the real FBI or CDC or anyone?  After 2 or 3 days?  And no one noticed that the town was quarantined?  

And no, Ketch, Dean didn't kill you.  Mary did.  Remember Mary?  

Everyone believes the bigshot demon when he says Kevin can't go to heaven, so they don't even try?  Whatever happened to "demons lie"?  

I guess the main effect of the magic bullet was to make the victim(s) stupid.  Sam last week and Chuck this week.  

The only thing I (sort of) liked was Amara telling Chuck off.  Though it did seem OOC based on where she was at the end of season 11.  Of course, she did spend a couple of years alone with Chuck, so maybe that was enough (even to a multidimensional and eternal being.)  But it sounds like she's going to be on the Winchesters' side.  We'll see. 

[Samwise979]

Maybe Cas not being able to heal Ketch has something to do with Chuck becoming weaker? He's weak so his angels are too? 

Can anyone remind me what happened to Ketch since he went to the alternate universe with Dean to rescue Mary. I have no recollection of anything about him after that. TIA!

I hope we're not spending the whole season in this dinky town. 

[BlueSapphire]

I can’t watch the episode until tomorrow, but Supernatural Twitter knows where it’s at (names omitted for privacy):

“Someone wrote this.  Someone directed this.  Someone edited this.  Someone said, ‘Yep, this is the best we got. Air it.’  That is sad.”

“I’ve had surgery I’ve looked forward to more than that.”

“Friends, I am so proud of us.  We have been through so much together and we are now one episode closer to being done with all the Bucklemming episodes we will ever have to watch.”

These don’t really inspire confidence. 🤣

[Myrelle]

An innocuous episode.

I liked how Dean was written in this one much better than in the premiere. He looked and felt so done with it all, Jensen is always so good at conveying that aspect of Dean when necessary, but yes, he still took charge when someone had to, also-which Jensen also portrays so very well.

And I liked Amara in this one, too; but the magical bullet wound sl is barf-worthy AFAIC, and  mostly because I know that we've only seen the tip of the iceberg with it and it's already making my eyes roll to the back of my head. 

They've really thrown God/Chuck under the bus, haven't they?

Rowena and Ketch?-No. Just no, But I'm also glad that he didn't die, and I felt that Kevin's lot was now better, too-not much, but a little. I hope that they will get him to Heaven eventually, but Dabb will probably just forget about him.

[Casseiopeia]

I think Jensen is all of us....

[Female83]

I liked that Amara put Chuck in his place and feel she may end up helping the boy against her brother.  Especially when

Spoiler

she finds out he opened all gates in Hell. 

[Shannonsspirit]

I was going to present some interesting analysis about how this episode brilliantly connected to some prior lore, canon, plot, or theme. However, I cannot come up with anything. Ghosts can now overcome iron, Castiel can't heal a simple wound, and Kevin goes to Hell, because innocents can be dragged there and never get to go to Heaven. Retconning Chuck was abhorrent; retconning everything is erasing years of Supernatural and is completely intolerable and unacceptable.

[hunenka]

It felt like Dean was on screen a bit more than in 15x01, and he even got to do something at one point, so that’s an improvement. And the only thing I care about at this point, really.

The Rowena/Ketch scenes were almost as cringeworthy and borderline parody as Rowena/Gabriel was in season 13.

Belphegor continues to be a fan of Dean. I like that.

Dean talking to Cas was nice, I like that he’s still angry, and very open and unapologetic about it. Also, Cas’s response to the whole Chuck and free will situation felt pretty unsatisfying to me, no wonder it didn’t comfort Dean at all.

[mertensia]

Belphegor just does not get that he should shut up about Hell around Dean. I don't think he realizes Dean is cataloguing everything Belphegor is saying.

Is it me or is Rowena's hair extra red?

[Bobcatkitten]

I thought this was worse than last week. Rowena, Ketch, Kevin, Amara and God all come back in one episode. Too many!!!! And other than Amara for no reason that actually moves the storyline along. We are going on our third episode in this little town with these not-scary-at-all ghosts. Ugh.

I did like Dean and Cas conversation. It was excellent. And not for destiel reasons cause, jeez, not every word in a script is about destiel.

And Dean was awesome shooting Ketch in the end and getting the soul thingy. 

Oh, yeah, and something else someone mentioned on Twitter. They have time for flirting and beer? WTH? 

Edited October 18, 2019 by Bobcatkitten

[Smad]

I have no words except 'WTF!' to anything that happens in this show anymore. What is this nonsense? The characters, the retcons and the shitting on the established lore. Radom characters popping up for no real reason. None of it is compelling or makes a lick of sense.

God letting himself get shot knowing what it would do to him seems like the dumbest move ever. He's God, he could have so easily avoided that shot. Cas is still a plot device whose powers are also completely dependent on plot. Rowena is her typical deus-ex-machina. Ghost hunting during bright, sunny days is not even a little scary. And Ghosts can now go anywhere they want? It used to be they were bound to people, objects, locations. And why did God only screw up that little part of the world? It should be happening all over the world.

And since when can't ghosts go to heaven anymore unless God decides it? Naomi send Bobby to heaven. The ghost in S2 trapped to repeat the night of the accident with the ghost of the guy who was run over with the car went to heaven. John went to heaven. But now that God is the big bad, everything was always his decision. Every tiny little thing, even though we know that's not true. Kevin being send to hell makes no sense whatsoever. The guy didn't do anything wrong but since God is now a douche bag, he even sends good people to hell. WTF is happening?

Who the hell was that and where is the real Amara? How the heck did we get from the end of S11 to this, whatever this is. Seriously lacking backstory here. And how did Amara end up with a character transplant?

The randomness of the Ketch/Rowena thing.

What is this show? It sure as heck isn't Supernatural.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Smad

[Katy M]

9 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Second thought:  If Chuck really wanted to end the world, why only open the gates of one tiny cemetery in the middle of nowhere, instead of all hellgates everywhere (and yes, the later reveal that he's weak and can only do "a few parlor tricks" might explain that, but it took till nearly the end of the episode to hear that.)  That could have been the end of the show in 10 seconds or less. 

Belphogor, who from now on I will refer to as Ol 'Phogy, said that all the doors in Hell opened.  So, yeah, Chuck let out ALL the ghosts and demons, which is making it ridiculous that nothing is happening on a grand scale.  All the ghosts couldn't be trapped in that town.  I find it hard to believe there were the hundreds of ghosts that Ol' Phogy said were bashing against the wall, because it seems like there were 20 at any given time.

Plus, where are all the demons?  We know that the wall didn't work on them.

[Shannonsspirit]

16 minutes ago, Smad said:

I have no words except 'WTF!' to anything that happens in this show anymore. What is this nonsense? The characters, the retcons and the shitting on the established lore. Radom characters popping up for no real reason. None of it is compelling or makes a lick of sense.

God letting himself get shot knowing what it would do to him seems like the dumbest move ever. He's God, he could have so easily avoided that shot. Cas is still a plot device whose powers are also completely dependent on plot. Rowena is her typical deus-ex-machina. Ghost hunting during bright, sunny days is not even a little scary. And Ghosts can now go anywhere they want? It used to be they were bound to people, objects, locations. And why did God only screw up that little part of the world? It should be happening all over the world.

And since when can't ghosts go to heaven anymore unless God decides it? Naomi send Bobby to heaven. The ghost in S2 trapped to repeat the night of the accident with the ghost of the guy who was run over with the car went to heaven. John went to heaven. But now that God is the big bad, everything was always his decision. Every tiny little thing, even though we know that's not true. Kevin being send to hell makes no sense whatsoever. The guy didn't do anything wrong but since God is now a douche bag, he even sends good people to hell. WTF is happening?

Who the hell was that and where is the real Amara? How the heck did we get from the end of S11 to this, whatever this is. Seriously lacking backstory here. And how did Amara end up with a character transplant?

The randomness of the Ketch/Rowena thing.

What is this show? It sure as heck isn't Supernatural.

If you hadn't written that so completely and brilliantly, I would add to it.

[Aeryn13]

I liked this better than the Season Premiere. 

At least the Dean-scenes were largely enjoyable. He had a good dynamic with all the guest characters. And I liked his move where he shot Ketch to save the day.

That said, I was pleasantly surprised Ketch survived.

Kevin just randomely got a super-horrible ending. I mean, why DID Chuck send him to hell anyway? Even if he has been revealed to be a petulant, narcisstic little douche, at that point he was still living in his little fantasy of being this wonderful little writer of his favoured little pets, the Winchesters. In that mindset, there was no reason for him to tell them one thing and then muhaha another. Kevin did nothing to him. 

No soul getting into heaven who has been to hell includes Dean then, right? I mean, since Chuck is evol now?

Unfortunately, the episode itself was largely a holding pattern. We`re still dealing with those stupid ghost-demons in that boring little town. That the townspeople can be corralled like this by those flimsy obvious lies is pretty silly. They even lampshaded it in that scene where Sam makes a speech. 

Why was there randomely time for Rowena and Ketch flirting? Is this a thing to hook up Rowena with the guest star of the week, Gabriel and now Ketch? 

Sam being literally connected to God? Eyeroll. 

Chuck making a gun that can actually hurt him and handing that gun over to others is so stupid to begin with. 

I don`t enjoy Dean being the voice for anti-free-will at the moment. At least he is fiery about it and not mopey. 

Amara is super-chill right now. Guess spending a little time with her evol brother was enough for her. I`m not even sure that the writers noticed that this retconning the entire show they`ve got going in doesn`t include the Amara parts of Season 11. I mean, she literally told him that even on his best day he couldn`t force her hand. He most certainly didn`t write her story in Season 11. So those might be the only genuine parts of the show left.  

Edited October 18, 2019 by Aeryn13

[Katy M]

21 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

The timing was inappropriate, but at some point I wouldn't mind seeing a Ketch/Rowena merger.

I put falling in love with your torturer one notch above falling in love with your rapist.  I'll give them that we didn't actually see the torture. But, we do know it happened, and that's one of the few things they didn't try to retcon in this epi.  

[catrox14]

What am I watching this season? Cause it sure as shit isn't Supernatural. I couldn't get put  my finger on it until this episode when then I realized it's as  though it's written for 6 to 14 year olds. It's so stupid.

When did Dean kill Ketch before? I swear that never happened.

Why couldn't Amara just know that Chuck was in the room without her opening her eyes because last I remember she was so linked to Chuck that he she had to ward herself from him so he couldn't find her (even though she was looking for him which never made sense but I digress..)

That was an insult to my intelligence and not even Jensen's acting helped.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

I don`t enjoy Dean being the voice for anti-free-will at the moment. At least he is fiery about it and not mopey. 

Don't anyone fall over from shock, but I'm kinda of the opinion that Dean's reaction to all this is in character. To me, it kinda makes sense that the one who was most invested in free will, who 'Because I got to believe that I can choose what I do with my unimportant little life' (I know that quote is messed up but it was something like that ETA: found and fixed it), would be the most disillusioned by Chuck revealing that it was all a lie. I'm hoping that he will also be the one to champion free will again once they get their feet under them, but I don't have a problem with him being the most fucked up by this right now.

19 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

When did Dean kill Ketch before? I swear that never happened.

He didn't. Mary did. He did try to kill him when he first came back from the dead, but he missed, lol. That that line made it past the first draft, never mind into the finished product, tells us all we need to know about the showrunning (hint: it's not good).

Edited October 18, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[Katy M]

17 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Don't anyone fall over from shock, but I'm kinda of the opinion that Dean's reaction to all this is in character. To me, it kinda makes sense that the one who was most invested in free will, who 'Because I got to believe that I can choose what I do with my unimportant little life' (I know that quote is messed up but it was something like that ETA: found and fixed it), would be the most disillusioned by Chuck revealing that it was all a lie. I'm hoping that he will also be the one to champion free will again once they get their feet under them, but I don't have a problem with him being the most fucked up by this right now.

I agree with that.  As much as I hated the episode, Dean's depression(?) seemed right.  Sam's always been a sort of fatalist, and Cas, as an angel, is pretty new to the whole free will thing.

[catrox14]

So, I was thinking, the only explanation I will accept for this shitty writing/retcon/lolcanaon is that the events in the Arrowverse have affected Supernatural ie this is taking place on an alternate Earth  so that SPN can cross over with Arrow and it all gets sorted out during the Arrowverse crossover.

[Ria]

What is this other than people running around in Halloween costumes? And let’s make one of them Jack the Ripper and have him give pep talks to the others. Throw in a few stupid humans who decide to walk into the quarantined area to get killed. Ugh. 

[sarthaz]

The second "Jack the Ripper" 🙄 spelled disembowel, I was like "Oh shit, this has to be a BuckLeming masterpiece." They're such terrible writers. Award-worthy. That stuff with Rowena and Ketch ...

And the explanation for why Kevin is in Hell is "God's a dick". That makes no f'n sense. God had zero motivation to just send Kevin to Hell for funzies and every reason not to (exposing himself as a liar).

[Casseiopeia]

15 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

It's awful that we've lost Steve Yockey. He wrote the best mythology, world-building, and character (especially Dean) out of this current crop

Spoiler

We still have one more episode from Steve Yockey coming up.

[Smad]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Why couldn't Amara just know that Chuck was in the room without her opening her eyes because last I remember she was so linked to Chuck that he she had to ward herself from him so he couldn't find her (even though she was looking for him which never made sense but I digress..)

I'm pretty sure that was Chuck lying about Amara being warded. He was the one who was holed up in a safety box (the bar) so she couldn't find him. And he knew he couldn't beat her. Him telling the Winchesters that she has warded herself against him was just a lie/excuse he told the boys so he didn't have to come face to face with her. She's been calling him out all of S11, of course she wasn't warded.

I'm still baffled as to how that entire thing went down in Reno. Shouldn't Amara have felt a disturbance in the force, so to speak? If God opened up all the gates of Hell, isn't that something Amara should be aware of? How can that not be clarified/discussed in their encounter? The whole encounter just leaves me baffled/confused as to it's pointlessness.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Smad

[Ray Adverb]

I liked it.  Like most of the episodes.  Love a good serialized story.

Seems strange that the people of the town are so easily convinced to evacuate by two guys in FBI jackets.  I wonder what happens if they told the truth.

I wonder how many ghosts that crystal can hold.  Last time, it held several hundred thousand.

I like that God's sister kind of mutely hates him.  Not in the sort of burning rage she had before they reconciled, but in a sort of "I just can't stand to be around this idiot" sense.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Ray Adverb

[Katy M]

34 minutes ago, Ray Adverb said:

Seems strange that the people of the town are so easily convinced to evacuate by two guys in FBI jackets.  I wonder what happens if they told the truth.

They showed the sheriff a badge and the sheriff started the evacuation. So, I don't think it's that odd that townspeople don't think that someone was conning them to get them out of town.

Actually, what I find a little odder is when people like Jamie in Monster Movie, say "you don't come off like a fed."  Really?  How many interactions do you have with federal agents that you've established a pattern as to how they all act.  I've had exactly zero.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Katy M

[TheGreenKnight]

I enjoyed this episode more than the premiere. I tend to enjoy seeing old characters pop up again, and there were four here including Amara, finally. I hope her and Rowena aren't rare appearances throughout the season... I liked Cas and Dean's scene together and that Sam has a connection to Chuck.

Are we allowed to discuss the preview in the episode topics or no?

[Ray Adverb]

When are they going to resolve Billie's talk with Jack in The Empty at the end of last season?  I want to know what she had to say to him.

[sarthaz]

Knowing Dabb, they're probably setting up Sam to become the new God.

[gonzosgirrl]

I was just reminded of this by a post in another thread. Dabb managed to work a Game of Thrones ending meta comment into Chuck's dialogue last night. Not funny, dude. Not when you suck as hard as you do.

(yes, I know BuckLemming wrote the episode - don't care - at this point it is ALL on Dabb)

[tennisgurl]

Better than last week, but not exactly setting the world on fire for its finale season. It just seems kind of ho hum, not that scary or exciting, and I am pretty convinced that the writers haven't actually watched this show in several seasons, because the rules of the universe just seem to be pointlessly changing left and right. Come on, its the last season of a FIFTEEN SEASON RUN! Give us something a little more epic or interesting or spooky or nostalgic than random loser ghosts in some random suburban neighborhood! It doesent seem like the end of the world, it seems like a really boring World of Darkness LARP gone wrong. 

On the plus side, it was great seeing Rowena and Ketch show up to help out, even with weird random flirting, they're always fun to have around, they liven an episode up. The best part of them hitting on each other were them both asking Dean about the other one and Dean is like "NO NO NO NO". I was sure one of them would bite it but was happy they made it out alive. I guess they are probably saving the pointless and tragic deaths of supporting characters for later in the season. I mean, working with the Winchesters rarely ends well for the people they hang out with. Really its remarkable that people still return their calls. I mean, look at Kevin!

"Kevin Tam. Ex Profit."

"Arthur Ketch. Ex Assassin." 

It was great to see Kevin, in that I like Kevin, and also sucked to see how much his afterlife has gone to crap. Poor Kevin, I hope he can at least have some fun ghost adventures. Chuck is such a petty dick. 

Speaking of, I guess Chuck is just full on evil dirtbag now, whatever. And Sam can shoot him with some stupid gun thing to kill freaking GOD. And people who go to hell cant go to heaven now even though they could in the past because...CHUCK. I guess thats how they will justify all the lazy ret-cons and forgetting of the shows mythology. A God did it. 

We did get to see Dean save the day and be smart when defeating the Party City super sale ghosts, and I really liked the conversation he has with Cas. He still hasn't forgiven him, which I get, but you can still tell how much they care about each other. "We were real." Awww. 

Honestly, those idiots wandering around a quarantine zone kind of should have seen their ends coming. Maybe not killed by ghosts, but still.

[KayCordingly]

Honestly, I haven't had any faith in the show for several seasons now. it ceased being scary, having any real stakes, of making cohesive sense... I can't even remember how long ago. I mainly just watch for the actors. 

The epicness of the storylines talk the talk, but they don't have the budget to walk the walk. So instead of the whole world burning like it should be right now, we get a small town that doesn't even have a visible forcefield. Those little Adobe Photoshop splooches that happened whenever an invisible ghost ran into the forcefield were adorable though. It's like they were made by the littlest intern who could.

I gotta say though, after turning God into a slimy villain more despicable than Metatron, as well as retconning Kevin's fate, it's difficult for me to believe that they're not intentionally sabotaging the show.

[Casseiopeia]

I could ship that...

#RETCH

[Morrigan2575]

I'm loving it.

Alex is having fun playing a new character although, I still see Jack.

Sam is connected to Chuck, which sadly makes me think he will die taking Chuck out.

It was nice seeing Amara again and Chuck being weak and scared for us a nice twist. I wonder if Cas not being able to heal is because he's growing weaker as Chuck gets weaker or if it's related to whatever he felt when he tries to heal the bullet wound last episode?

Loved seeing Kevin Tran again. Hope he comes back

Really didn't need that Rowena/Ketch stuff. Now that I know Ketch is Aaron Rodgers Agent I can't unsee it.

I hope we get Crowley back at some point. Can't have a Final Season without Crowley, IMO. I also hope OG Death comes back. If anyone gets to Reap God it should be OG Death.

I loved the Dean/Cas scene. Dean would take it the hardest, since he's always been Captain of Team Free Will.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Morrigan2575

[FlickChick]

19 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Chuck being weak and scared for us a nice twist.

Chuck is scared for Chuck - not for anyone in our world.

This episode was as boring as the premiere. A question - have all the cameramen lost their filters/lenses? We might as well be watching a brightly lit soap opera. Sorry, even Jensen can't save these episodes for me. Another question - when the fuck are they going to wrap up this comical story in the brightest horror-town ever? I'm actually sorry that they didn't just throw in the towel at the end of last season. Better to have a question mark at the end than be bored to death getting to what will probably be the worst finale of all time. I've had it!!!!!!

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, FlickChick said:

Chuck is scared for Chuck - not for anyone in our world.

Yeah that was a typo I was trying to say "for once". I don't know why my autocorrect changed it. Frankly, I think my phone is evil and enjoys messing with me.

[Jynnan tonnix]

2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'm loving it.

Alex is having fun playing a new character although, I still see Jack.

Sam is connected to Chuck, which sadly makes me think he will die taking Chuck out.

It was nice seeing Amara again and Chuck being weak and scared for us a nice twist. I wonder if Cas not being able to heal is because he's growing weaker as Chuck gets weaker or if it's related to whatever he felt when he tries to heal the bullet wound last episode?

Loved seeing Kevin Tran again. Hope he comes back

Really didn't need that Rowena/Ketch stuff. Now that I know Ketch is Aaron Rodgers Agent I can't unsee it.

I hope we get Crowley back at some point. Can't have a Final Season without Crowley, IMO. I also hope OG Death comes back. If anyone gets to Reap God it should be OG Death.

I loved the Dean/Cas scene. Dean would take it the hardest, since he's always been Captain of Team Free Will.

I'm kind of with you on much of this. As I said, I have only been watching this show over the last four years or so, having binge-watched everything up to that point, therefore I understand that I don't have nearly the sort of investment in it as those who have watched it, year by year (with, no doubt, lots of repeat viewings during the off seasons). I guess in a way I see myself, in this forum, at least, as the casual viewer, who is just there for the entertainment, and all the pretty that is Dean, without getting caught up in all the drama of exactly who the characters are and whether the various writers are true to them; I just don't have enough background with the show to really worry about it, so may be more representative of possibly a good chunk of the audience.

I did mostly enjoy this episode, and the old characters we saw turning up. Yes, it does seem re-vamped overall as something at least a bit different from the original show, but, to me, at least, it doesn't feel jarring as much as a set-up to what I hope (and it's nothing more than a hope, given how many shows have had truly dismal attempts to tie things up) to some sort of ending which will encompass various elements from past seasons. I'm not sure there's a way, at this point, to come up with something truly satisfying - it's been something of a mess for so long - but I'll settle for something that feels like an ending, and preferably something which can make me feel good.

[Katy M]

3 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Alex is having fun playing a new character although, I still see Jack.

Sam is connected to Chuck, which sadly makes me think he will die taking Chuck out.

Actually, Not!Jack! is one of the few things I enjoyed in the last couple of epis.  And, I'm not seeing Jack at all.  He's completely different to me. So, kudos to Alex.

We learned in Alpha and Omega that if Chuck dies, the sun dies.  He is the light.  So, whatever happens, nobody can take Chuck out, unless they're writing an end of the world finale.  Which, I might actually be OK with.

[foxfreakinmulder]

3 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Alex is having fun playing a new character although, I still see Jack.

Sam is connected to Chuck, which sadly makes me think he will die taking Chuck out.

It was nice seeing Amara again and Chuck being weak and scared for us a nice twist. I wonder if Cas not being able to heal is because he's growing weaker as Chuck gets weaker or if it's related to whatever he felt when he tries to heal the bullet wound last episode?

Loved seeing Kevin Tran again. Hope he comes back

Really didn't need that Rowena/Ketch stuff. Now that I know Ketch is Aaron Rodgers Agent I can't unsee it.

I hope we get Crowley back at some point. Can't have a Final Season without Crowley, IMO. I also hope OG Death comes back. If anyone gets to Reap God it should be OG Death.

I loved the Dean/Cas scene. Dean would take it the hardest, since he's always been Captain of Team Free Will.

I agree with all of this especially Death coming back, he was so cool and of course we have to have a scene with Crowley before the end.

I have a feeling Amara will connect with Sam and Dean and hopefully send Kevin to heaven.

I thought it was funny that when Amara left the hotel room in RENO of all places she used the door like a human would lol.

Why are all the ghost going to this little town and are they invading other towns or is it just this one?

Ghost have meetings? Who da thunk it!

I didn't need to see Ketch again.

[SueB]

So Chuck is being ‘hoist by his own petard’.  Again the meta is strong in this one.  Dabb is using a standard literary trope to give the boys a God-killer weapon. Chuck IS a bad writer.  Pretty weak plotting by Chuck to create a weapon that can kill him.  He’s the only one who COULD create it.  And it’s sitting in Dean’s glove compartment!

I’m Team #Samwitch, so #Retch is not my cup of tea but I liked the spark of humor.  
 

I liked seeing Kevin but it felt like a ‘wrap’ on his character.  That’s hard to see.  

[rue721]

Not much to add. I really didn’t like it. Hate the lack of atmosphere (let alone creepiness), hate the incomprehensible plotting. I had assumed that the greatest strength of an ancient show like this would be that there’s so much history to mine...but the writers can’t even get facts from recent seasons straight and the characters brought in for fan service act nothing like their old selves, so I guess the problem is even though there’s a ton of history to use *in theory,* the current crop of writers/producers don’t actually remember any of it.

I usually love Kevin, and enjoy Rowena and Ketch, but this time not so much. And the chemistry/relationships just aren’t there right now for some reason. I’m not even feeling a connection between Sam and Dean. And this is maybe the first time there was no heat between Sam and Rowena, either.

I feel like everybody behind the scenes is just trying to get this done so they can move on, and it’s depressing.