S04.E04: Her Own Two Feet

[thewhiteowl]

Bull helps a social media influencer take her father to court to overturn his legal guardianship.

[MerBearHou]

This one was interesting.  Loosely based on Britney Spears.  Tough situations all the way around.

[ECM1231]

I haven't missed any episodes but am confused as to what is going on with Marissa. She wants a divorce? Why? She and her husband decide to have children and are excited about the possibility of becoming parents. Fertility tests reveal her husband is infertile/ sterile and yet she lies and says she changed her mind to spare his feelings? This makes no sense. Wouldn't the fertility doctor tell his own client the results and not the wife? Wouldn't the husband be curious to know what the results were? If they divorce and he remarries, the same problem follows him. Perhaps I am over thinking this.

[zoey1996]

I agree, @ECM1231.  She evidently is choosing divorce over telling her husband the truth?  And why isn't he getting the results as well?  

Wasn't he already an ex-husband, and they got back together?  There were some trust issues between them, and it looks like there still are.

[TVForever]

1 hour ago, ECM1231 said:

I haven't missed any episodes but am confused as to what is going on with Marissa. She wants a divorce? Why? She and her husband decide to have children and are excited about the possibility of becoming parents. Fertility tests reveal her husband is infertile/ sterile and yet she lies and says she changed her mind to spare his feelings? This makes no sense. Wouldn't the fertility doctor tell his own client the results and not the wife? Wouldn't the husband be curious to know what the results were? If they divorce and he remarries, the same problem follows him. Perhaps I am over thinking this.

No, you are NOT overthinking this. You are trying to make sense of a really stupid situation.

So much of whatever this is that Marissa's going through right now is a mess of her own making. Why couldn't she just be honest with her husband? If he's pissed off with her right now, it's because he has a right to be. And why does she feel seemingly entitled to play the martyr right now?

Now, about the case of the week:

I appreciated that neither father nor daughter were a villian in this story.  I liked the resolution, although I would have liked to have seen some proof that these payments were going to the cameraman (that's just me being cynical, lol)

And finally

I'm glad we finally know why Chunk's daughter (do we know her name?) has been so hot and cold with him. What a mess, and the conflict between them is realistic, and painful to watch. There are no easy answers here. Not for whether or not she has the abortion, but for their relationship afterwards.

[HurricaneVal]

I have to say I was completely and utterly confused by that last scene between Marissa and Bull.  I realize it was supposed to be indicative of how conflicted and quirky and messed up Marissa is, but I gotta tell you, if that was my friend making all those contradictory statements and acting all coy and deflecting like that, I'd have shut the door, turned out the lights, and left her to drink scotch on her own.  Maybe I'm heartless, but acting all cutesy-wootsie like that when asking for serious help is just icky.  Ask like a grown up, not a fourteen year old girl afraid to admit something is wrong.

The CotW was interesting.  And yeah, nice that it was complex with all sorts of shading and not at all black and white.  The writing did a neat cat and mouse game of "Is she actually competent and her dad is manipulating her for money, or is she really seriously unbalanced and her dad is really looking out for her best interests?"  I thought that was nice and suspenseful.  I was actually hoping that it would turn out that she was some sort of businesswoman savant and those random real estate deals she did in her manic period would turn out to be genius decisions, but the fact that she really bought that one SoHo building to develop her line of invisible clothes was a far more interesting plot turn.

[Netfoot]

Chunk continues to demonstrate that he is the stupidest person on television, and blind as well.  I knew she was preggers two episodes ago!  Oh, and my young daughter isn't going to go live in Jordan for six months with my blessing.  Or at all, if I can help it.  But in this case, I don't care.

Marissa (had to look her up again) is looking to divorce her husband because she lied to him about his sperm count in order not to hurt his feelings and I don't care.

Recommendation to TPTB:  A spin-off show with Chunk and Marissa on their own.  So I can NOT watch it.

CotW: How do you tactfully say, "We're interested in your company but you are too ugly to be the face of anything we're involved with?"

She blinded a paparazzi.  Isn't there a committee in Scandinavia that awards a prize for that?

This is a show about Jury Tampering Science so no surprise they demand a trial by jury.  Then they don't even go through the motions of selecting a jury!  We get one (two?) quick mention about how many jurists are red/green (dubious technology at best) and that's it?

[ECM1231]

1 hour ago, TVForever said:

I appreciated that neither father nor daughter were a villian in this story.  I liked the resolution, although I would have liked to have seen some proof that these payments were going to the cameraman (that's just me being cynical, lol)

I'll join you at that table of cynical people.  And thanks for saying I was not overthinking the Marissa situation. I wanted to slap her silly. They finally found their way back to each other and I am sure they could deal with the husband's infertility if she just would be honest with him.

[JessDVD]

Marisa- WTF?

Chunk- LOL

COTW- OK, so I'm not by any means an expert on mental health, guardianship, legality, etc, and all my knowledge really is based on the two different families I know who have walked this with their now-adult children who recently turned 18. So if I'm wrong, politely correct me. But as far as I've been able to tell with them, the point of legal guardianship is NOT to micro-manage your adult children's decisions, up to an approved lunch with a friend. The point of legal guardianship is so that you, the parent, can advocate on your adult child's behalf and actually be considered in the legal determinations, so that the parent can legally step in if the adult child has medical needs and is unable to handle them (which HIPPA would block otherwise), that sort of thing. The fact that the dad wanted to be guardian so he could sell her company against her wishes, had her practically under lock and key, used money from her company to pay off that guy without her knowledge (I'm not saying doing that was the wrong call, but without her knowledge??) - suggested that there's something unhealthy going on with his desired level of control. Not that he just wanted to keep guardianship in case her mental health suffered and then he could step in without having to deal with twelve miles of red tape.

I did appreciate that it wasn't super black and white (despite my above complaints).

[jabRI]

I agree with you, Jess.  What bothered me is, how long is this going to continue? She clearly showed that she was competent once she found the correct medication and therapist.  Bipolar people can lead independent productive lives.  Is her husband going to take over at some point? From one handler to another?

And the 'resolution' was to sell the company, which she clearly didn't want, and her dad would be a little less hands on?  Sorry, don't see that as a win for Bull.

[Sake614]

Re Marissa, didn't the doctor tell her husband in the season opener? He went to see her to discuss freezing his sperm and the scene ended with her saying that she needed to tell him something 'off the record.' Since then Marissa said he's barely spoken to her.

I have to admit that I didn't even remember who he was (or who Marissa was) by the time the season opened. So I guess that says something about how invested I am in the story lol!

[jabRI]

I didn't recognize/remember his either.  For some reason I thought it was the ex of Bull's ex.  I can't keep these people straight, cant' get invested in them.

Interested to see how Chunk's daughter's issue is resolved.  Most networks are too scared to take on reproductive rights, they just cave and say 'we will all help  you raise your baby'.

[Sarah 103]

On 10/15/2019 at 1:17 PM, Netfoot said:

She blinded a paparazzi.  Isn't there a committee in Scandinavia that awards a prize for that?

She didn't blind a paparazzo (I think that's the term for singular). She blinded the cameraman who was shooting the video for social media. 

On 10/15/2019 at 1:17 PM, Netfoot said:

This is a show about Jury Tampering Science so no surprise they demand a trial by jury.  Then they don't even go through the motions of selecting a jury!  We get one (two?) quick mention about how many jurists are red/green (dubious technology at best) and that's it?

I was so dissapointed about this. I couldn't wait for Bull to tell Benny what kind of people they wanted on the jury and how best to acheive that result. There were so many interesting issues relating to celebrity and image, business, and mental health they could have explored.

Like many others, I knew Chunk's daughter was pregnant. When he called aboration a sin, I was surprised she didn't say something like "So's being gay but you don't have a problem with that."  

[Ellee]

16 hours ago, jabRI said:

I didn't recognize/remember his either.  For some reason I thought it was the ex of Bull's ex.  I can't keep these people straight, cant' get invested in them.

Interested to see how Chunk's daughter's issue is resolved.  Most networks are too scared to take on reproductive rights, they just cave and say 'we will all help  you raise your baby'.

My bet here ... Chunk’s daughter ends up having the baby with Jordan trip being delayed a couple of months.  Marissa and her husband end up adopting or agreeing to raise her baby as their own.  Chunk while not happy is in agreement.  His daughter’s mother finds out about this all after the fact.  

Negotiations, people, that is what it’s all about.  🙄

And better yet it will only take 10 mins of air time. 😁🙄

[Sake614]

I would rather watch the drama play out between Chunk and his daughter than just about every other story on the show right now. But I don't want her to have the baby and give it to Marissa. I want her to stand her ground and live her life. I also want to see Chunk grapple with his faith but ultimately accept that his daughter has things she wants to do with her life and being a mother right now is not one of them. She doesn't have to follow in her parents' footsteps. She got pregnant, yes. Who knows if they were using protection? Maybe it failed. Nothing is 100%. That doesn't mean she has to carry the baby to term.

[Ellee]

1 hour ago, Sake614 said:

I would rather watch the drama play out between Chunk and his daughter than just about every other story on the show right now. But I don't want her to have the baby and give it to Marissa. I want her to stand her ground and live her life. I also want to see Chunk grapple with his faith but ultimately accept that his daughter has things she wants to do with her life and being a mother right now is not one of them. She doesn't have to follow in her parents' footsteps. She got pregnant, yes. Who knows if they were using protection? Maybe it failed. Nothing is 100%. That doesn't mean she has to carry the baby to term.

My thing is that with the way they write the stories his daughter will already be in the delivery room in the next episode or will be returning from Jordan.  So either way we won’t see the drama unfold.  

Is it just me that feels this way?

[Sake614]

Just now, Ellee said:

My thing is that with the way they write the stories his daughter will already be in the delivery room in the next episode or will be returning from Jordan.  So either way we won’t see the drama unfold.  

Is it just me that feels this way?

Sadly you're probably right. 😞

[Dowel Jones]

First off, Benny has to ask Bull if a client has the right to a jury trial in a guardianship case? Along with his courtroom antics, I'm surprised he even practices, except as second fiddle to a jury consultant who does all the talking, anyway.  I will have to give his some credit, though, for dispensing with that hack psychiatrist with a minimum of effort.

Then, the manager brought in to run the company mentioned that she had shares in the company.  Ergo, it's a publicly traded company, accountable to the SEC.  Not one analyst ever noticed the rather large transfers of money outside the company on a regular basis for three years?  Maybe Dad and the manager had a certain "arrangement" that wasn't mentioned in the show.  In any case, $6 million dollars in unreported income is going to put that cameraman in a tight squeeze if the IRS finds out.  For that matter, the same with the company, as that expense had to be accounted for in any case. 

I don't quite get the import of the "invisible clothing line" testimony.  That all occurred before she began treatment, correct?  It's already established that she is under conservatorship.  It's all in the past.  Move on. 

It looks like Bull traded in his town car for a multi seat row SUV, so that Taylor could sit way in the back to surprise him.  New sponsor for the show?

On 10/17/2019 at 1:20 PM, Ellee said:

My thing is that with the way they write the stories his daughter will already be in the delivery room in the next episode or will be returning from Jordan.  

Or another flash forward with the now adult kid with Bull's kid at a cookout on the beach.

[JessDVD]

Maybe Chunk's daughter's kid is the one with Bull's kid at the end of the first episode of this season?

[Sarah 103]

On 10/18/2019 at 5:53 PM, Dowel Jones said:

In any case, $6 million dollars in unreported income is going to put that cameraman in a tight squeeze if the IRS finds out. 

How do we know the cameraman wasn't reporting the income? I'm not a tax expert, but there's probably something he could have listed the income as that would not raise suspicion or tie it back to the company. 

[Tdoc72]

On 10/16/2019 at 4:00 PM, jabRI said:

Interested to see how Chunk's daughter's issue is resolved.  Most networks are too scared to take on reproductive rights, they just cave and say 'we will all help  you raise your baby'.

I knew what they were talking about, but they seemed to be dancing around the actual word ‘abortion’.  

[TVForever]

On 10/18/2019 at 9:53 PM, JessDVD said:

Maybe Chunk's daughter's kid is the one with Bull's kid at the end of the first episode of this season?

I could go for that...

[hookedontv]

On 10/17/2019 at 3:13 PM, Sake614 said:

I would rather watch the drama play out between Chunk and his daughter than just about every other story on the show right now. But I don't want her to have the baby and give it to Marissa. I want her to stand her ground and live her life. I also want to see Chunk grapple with his faith but ultimately accept that his daughter has things she wants to do with her life and being a mother right now is not one of them. She doesn't have to follow in her parents' footsteps. She got pregnant, yes. Who knows if they were using protection? Maybe it failed. Nothing is 100%. That doesn't mean she has to carry the baby to term.

^^^^ If I could give this 100 likes, I would. 

[xtwheeler]

On 10/18/2019 at 2:53 PM, Dowel Jones said:

Then, the manager brought in to run the company mentioned that she had shares in the company.  Ergo, it's a publicly traded company, accountable to the SEC. 

Privately held companies issue shares as well, not just publicly traded ones. Shares just represent ownership interest in the company. If you and I formed a company and jointly invested equally, we would each own 50% of shares, or whatever our articles of incorporation and bylaws set forth.

A conservatorship is not just for health related issues, though it can be. Someone can be appointed by you or by the court as your medical proxy or hold your durable power of attorney for health care. A conservatorship can really be designed with any contours the parties and the judge want. There are of course financial conservators appointed to preserve the assets of the person under conservatorship (the subject of the conservatorship cannot make business decisions, must seek permission for investments or spending, etc. They basically have no decision making power and have to ask permission), and there are personal conservatorships (like the one Britney Spears is under). Under a personal conservatorship, the conservator can make decisions like where the subject of the conservatorship lives, whether she is enrolled in school, if she is allowed to marry, etc. Conservatorships can be designed to cover all rights and responsibilities a person would otherwise have, not just to be "on guard" in case someone's medical issues flare up. (So, Britney Spears residency in Vegas was a deal brokered and entered into by her father, if she wants to marry her boyfriend, she has to have permission, and he has decision making power over what doctors she sees and what her treatment regimen is.)

[mythoughtis]

Marisa implied strongly that her husband had left her.  Hence her comment about being left by everyone - her parents and now her husband.   Yes. The therapist told her husband earlier this season about the test results. 

Edited November 13, 2019 by mythoughtis

[Mrs. Smith]

On 10/15/2019 at 9:37 AM, ECM1231 said:

I haven't missed any episodes but am confused as to what is going on with Marissa. She wants a divorce? Why? She and her husband decide to have children and are excited about the possibility of becoming parents. Fertility tests reveal her husband is infertile/ sterile and yet she lies and says she changed her mind to spare his feelings? This makes no sense. Wouldn't the fertility doctor tell his own client the results and not the wife? Wouldn't the husband be curious to know what the results were? If they divorce and he remarries, the same problem follows him. Perhaps I am over thinking this.

I’m in total agreement with you. I thought I missed something too..I was going to rewatch the season until I found your post with my exact Google search...