Trace and Chaney: Vanilla Tears

[PrincessPurrsALot]

All things Trace and Chaney.

[RebeccatheWriter]

For a tag line I'm thinking something vanilla. They seem a little plain and boring so far. 

[flyingdi]

Trace & Chaney: Bow-Tie and ?

[Temperance]

They met while on a ski trip. Maybe we could do something with that?

Trace & Chaney: From Ski Slopes to ....

[Kiss my mutt]

How about Trace and what’s her name 

I’m pretty indifferent and fatigued by all the weddings, renewals and courtships. It’s like watching them all go down the same rabbit hole. 

[Temperance]

Based on their social media accounts, it's looking like this couple may split. 

[RebeccatheWriter]

8 hours ago, Temperance said:

Based on their social media accounts, it's looking like this couple may split. 

The pics appear to be back and she's been back modeling for the sisters and posing with him at Papa Bill and Mama Jane's house over Christmas. 

[MargeGunderson]

Trace and Chaney sounds like a dude bro country duo to me.

[floridamom]

What's up with Trace and Chaney? 

[Sew Sumi]

I think Trace tried to do something to his Chaney pics, and they disappeared for a while. But they're back now. And as was mentioned, Chaney spent the holidays with the Bateses. 

Nothing to see here.

[Sew Sumi]

Traney are no more.

 

[Kiss my mutt]

Looks like we need a name change now!

[BitterApple]

Wow, three Bates sons with broken courtships. Not a huge deal in the real world, but interesting in a world where courtship is equivalent to engagement. I'm happy that Chaney had the guts to call it off and not feel pressured to marry the first guy who looked her way. It's better to experience short-term pain than it is a lifetime of regret.

Edited February 3, 2020 by BitterApple

[Temperance]

I mentioned this on the Sweet Fellowship thread (Duggar forum), but I think Trace and Chaney are different levels of fundie. Chaney wears jeans, goes to secular parties, and probably wants to finish college before getting married. Trace is probably like the rest of his brothers who act like there's nothing wrong with how they were raised. 

It's back to the lonely Bates for Trace. 

[floridamom]

I find it curious that the Bates family just can't seem to marry off their sons. Only Zach, who met Whitney the 'modern way' is married. They also 'dated' more traditionally and kissed before marriage. Take note, Bates parents.....perhaps this is the better option for your sons.

[lookeyloo]

Is he damaged goods now since he has given away a piece of his heart or does that only apply to the wimminfolk?

[andromeda331]

Probably just the women. But it is interesting that so far it now three for three for Bates boys who's first courtship ended in a breakup. 

[Temperance]

7 hours ago, floridamom said:

I find it curious that the Bates family just can't seem to marry off their sons. Only Zach, who met Whitney the 'modern way' is married. They also 'dated' more traditionally and kissed before marriage. Take note, Bates parents.....perhaps this is the better option for your sons.

This is sort of repeat of the post I just did on Sweet Fellowship again, but the Bates boys seem content to be fundies and not interested in changing. If they want to meet women outside of the cult, then they need to prepare cultural changes. Zach did and it's working for him. 

Also Trace and Chaney met on a normal vacation skiing. Chaney has no known connection to IBLP. They were dating mostly in a normal way. 

Hopefully Chaney's family is mainstream enough that they aren't as obsessed with everyone marrying their first real relationship. Although my fundie-lite friends did a version of this, they certainly seem mainstream to everyone else.

[MargeGunderson]

I wonder if Chaney took a good look at all the married women in that family and decided staying at home with a large number of kids was just not what she wanted to do. 

[65mickey]

And what do these young men do to earn a living?  One of them is a pilot with a small plane but does that bring in money? Trace has been shown with Zach as an intern with  the sheriff's department but did he really working? And does Lawson earn a living from writing songs because I highly doubt that his vocal performances make him much money. Maybe Chaney didn't want to marry someone with no clear career path and who most likely expects her to marry, stay home and have babies on a regular basis. 

[YupItsMe]

I think Trace was seen in some pics working with Chad.

[BetyBee]

On 2/3/2020 at 3:43 PM, Kiss my mutt said:

Looks like we need a name change now!

I vote for keeping this one on ice and resurrecting it with a strikethrough on Chaney and adding whoever replaces her. We could repeat as often as necessary! 😇

[floridamom]

How about "Just Trace Now".

[RebeccatheWriter]

On 2/3/2020 at 5:06 PM, Temperance said:

I mentioned this on the Sweet Fellowship thread (Duggar forum), but I think Trace and Chaney are different levels of fundie. Chaney wears jeans, goes to secular parties, and probably wants to finish college before getting married. Trace is probably like the rest of his brothers who act like there's nothing wrong with how they were raised. 

It's back to the lonely Bates for Trace. 

I think she might be on the evangelical but not fundie side of the spectrum. 

I'm hoping Trace looks at how Zach married a nonfundie with a job and education and seems relatively happy and content. I wouldn't want him to follow the Nathan model of bitter comments about women.

[Sew Sumi]

Look interwebs, I WORK!!!!!

 

[Kiss my mutt]

I hope the Bates’ boys pull their weight and aren’t just glomming on to Chad so they can have a “jobby”. Poor Chad, he’s gotta offer free labor and offer employment to her family, not to mention keeping her pregnant. 

[Sew Sumi]

Well, he got the hoodie. 😂

[Kiss my mutt]

It must be legit then!

[BitterApple]

Poor Chad. So now in addition to supporting his idiot wife and the horde of babies she's determined to pump out, he's also responsible for employing the Bates boys? He'll be dead of a heart attack by 40 if this keeps up. 

[floridamom]

I clearly don't see Chad as being the patriarchal head of his family. Erin and Kelly run things if you ask me.

[YupItsMe]

Gotta put himself right back out there on offer now that he’s single again.

[cereality]

So I’m assuming Chaney broke it off, rather than Trace – if for no other reason that I can’t imagine any fundie male ready to get some breaking it off with any woman who seems the least bit willing. From the string of broken male courtships for the Bates, I have a feeling that the Bates boys act a bit more fundie in relationships than their normal haircuts, clothing, and Instagrams would suggest. 

I have a feeling that maybe when they get in relationships and don’t know how to act because they haven’t socialized much growing up (though more than say the Duggars bc they at least got away from their siblings a few hrs a day to go to local college) and certainly not with the opposite sex – I wonder if not knowing how to act, the fundie male behavior comes out. (And I wouldn’t be shocked if Kelly encourages it bc she seems like the type who is telling them – oh Chaney/Ashley are JUST the girl, there are plenty of fish in the sea, you are the MAN, what you want is what happens, OF COURSE you just TELL them you will live in Knox etc. While OTOH teaching her girls how to keep their man whipped starting day 1.)

The Nathan Ashley thing was doomed starting day 1 – no fiery NYC Latina is going to jump on your beck and call to move to Rocky Top to fold dresses and pretend to be besties with princess Erin and shrieky Carlin just bc you are THE MAN. With Trace who knows what happened, but apparently Chaney is in college. Maybe she goes to a real college/is pursuing a real degree and wanted to finish that and not just go to “online college” like Carlin did so she could have all the time in the world to sit and wait for a ring. Maybe she didn’t want to move to Rocky Top with her sole outlet being the sisters in law and the dumb boutique. And honestly I bet Trace would not even discuss the idea of moving to Texas – or together picking a 3rd city to live in – bc I honestly don’t believe he has the confidence to stand on his two feet like that. He NEEDS – due to a lack of education and training – to follow the paths laid out by his brothers/brothers in law; in Rocky Top he can cobble together a living and get himself a cottage like his married siblings. Chad is now required to employ any unemployed brother in law + he can always pick up tree work from dad + there’s always the metal shop that he could probably pick up hrs at as the owner knows mommy and daddy, Bobby, and Chad.

I don’t think Trace necessarily had the problem in courting that Zach said he had back in the day with Sarah Reith. Z has said that it felt so uncomfortable bc he never knew what to talk to her about, he had never even sat next to a girl before etc. That’s what led Gil/Kelly to add a “get to know you” period.

The positive for Z was that I think the broken courtship is where he realized that his parents had just been making up rules all along and they were full of crap and would not guarantee his happiness – even despite the fact that he had prayed and done all the oldest son duties for decades and it still didn’t work out.  So he started hanging out, saw a waitress he liked, became friends with her and then dated her without a 10 yr old in tow to chaperone, kissed her, married her even though [gasp] she wears pants, got himself a real job even if it means working with some non Christians and with that job got health insurance and retirement, bought a house with an evil mortgage bc he wanted a nice home not a cottage or falling down shack, put a tv in said house, and in 6 yrs of marriage has had 3 kids and it doesn’t look like he wants 10 or even 6.

And now he pretty much mocks Gil and Kelly. How they were never allowed to dance but now that they need their daughters to act somewhat romantic with men without kissing or sex – bam dancing is soooo classy. When Kelton was asking him about asking for Gil’s blessing – Z goes just tell him you’ve prayed on it and God says Josie is the one, how can he argue with that. Lol.

Z has stood up on his own two feet and IDK if Trace has what it takes. Honestly hopefully Trace doesn’t go down the bitter road that Nathan has. Trace appears to have made a lot of guy friends in college. Hope he gets it out there that he wants to marry asap – these are all local Tenn. guys who went to religious college – I’m sure one of them has a sister, cousin etc. that’s available.

[BitterApple]

I think Trace needs to settle on a career. Working for Chad is fine, but those are piecemeal gigs that will wax and wane depending on the economy. There's no way he can support a family off that, and I imagine that was a factor in Chaney saying, "Thanks, but no thanks." 

[Temperance]

2 hours ago, cereality said:

So I’m assuming Chaney broke it off, rather than Trace – if for no other reason that I can’t imagine any fundie male ready to get some breaking it off with any woman who seems the least bit willing. From the string of broken male courtships for the Bates, I have a feeling that the Bates boys act a bit more fundie in relationships than their normal haircuts, clothing, and Instagrams would suggest. 

I have a feeling that maybe when they get in relationships and don’t know how to act because they haven’t socialized much growing up (though more than say the Duggars bc they at least got away from their siblings a few hrs a day to go to local college) and certainly not with the opposite sex – I wonder if not knowing how to act, the fundie male behavior comes out. (And I wouldn’t be shocked if Kelly encourages it bc she seems like the type who is telling them – oh Chaney/Ashley are JUST the girl, there are plenty of fish in the sea, you are the MAN, what you want is what happens, OF COURSE you just TELL them you will live in Knox etc. While OTOH teaching her girls how to keep their man whipped starting day 1.)

The Nathan Ashley thing was doomed starting day 1 – no fiery NYC Latina is going to jump on your beck and call to move to Rocky Top to fold dresses and pretend to be besties with princess Erin and shrieky Carlin just bc you are THE MAN. With Trace who knows what happened, but apparently Chaney is in college. Maybe she goes to a real college/is pursuing a real degree and wanted to finish that and not just go to “online college” like Carlin did so she could have all the time in the world to sit and wait for a ring. Maybe she didn’t want to move to Rocky Top with her sole outlet being the sisters in law and the dumb boutique. And honestly I bet Trace would not even discuss the idea of moving to Texas – or together picking a 3rd city to live in – bc I honestly don’t believe he has the confidence to stand on his two feet like that. He NEEDS – due to a lack of education and training – to follow the paths laid out by his brothers/brothers in law; in Rocky Top he can cobble together a living and get himself a cottage like his married siblings. Chad is now required to employ any unemployed brother in law + he can always pick up tree work from dad + there’s always the metal shop that he could probably pick up hrs at as the owner knows mommy and daddy, Bobby, and Chad.

I don’t think Trace necessarily had the problem in courting that Zach said he had back in the day with Sarah Reith. Z has said that it felt so uncomfortable bc he never knew what to talk to her about, he had never even sat next to a girl before etc. That’s what led Gil/Kelly to add a “get to know you” period.

The positive for Z was that I think the broken courtship is where he realized that his parents had just been making up rules all along and they were full of crap and would not guarantee his happiness – even despite the fact that he had prayed and done all the oldest son duties for decades and it still didn’t work out.  So he started hanging out, saw a waitress he liked, became friends with her and then dated her without a 10 yr old in tow to chaperone, kissed her, married her even though [gasp] she wears pants, got himself a real job even if it means working with some non Christians and with that job got health insurance and retirement, bought a house with an evil mortgage bc he wanted a nice home not a cottage or falling down shack, put a tv in said house, and in 6 yrs of marriage has had 3 kids and it doesn’t look like he wants 10 or even 6.

And now he pretty much mocks Gil and Kelly. How they were never allowed to dance but now that they need their daughters to act somewhat romantic with men without kissing or sex – bam dancing is soooo classy. When Kelton was asking him about asking for Gil’s blessing – Z goes just tell him you’ve prayed on it and God says Josie is the one, how can he argue with that. Lol.

Z has stood up on his own two feet and IDK if Trace has what it takes. Honestly hopefully Trace doesn’t go down the bitter road that Nathan has. Trace appears to have made a lot of guy friends in college. Hope he gets it out there that he wants to marry asap – these are all local Tenn. guys who went to religious college – I’m sure one of them has a sister, cousin etc. that’s available.

Trace literally said Chaney called it off in his Instagram. It's posted above.

I think Ashley is part African-American and not-Latina.

I agree with a lot of your other points though.

[Sew Sumi]

Ashley is half Puerto Rican.

[SMama]

Ashley’s mother was born in the Dominican Republic.  

[Sew Sumi]

I knew it was Caribbean, could have sworn she was Puerto Rican, but it's been some years. I stand corrected. 😀

[SMama]

3 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

I knew it was Caribbean, could have sworn she was Puerto Rican, but it's been some years. I stand corrected. 😀

No big deal, I’m Puerto Rican so maybe those details worm their way into my cluttered brain. Now someone else will say the mother was born elsewhere. 😎

[RebeccatheWriter]

On 2/8/2020 at 10:23 PM, cereality said:

So I’m assuming Chaney broke it off, rather than Trace – if for no other reason that I can’t imagine any fundie male ready to get some breaking it off with any woman who seems the least bit willing. From the string of broken male courtships for the Bates, I have a feeling that the Bates boys act a bit more fundie in relationships than their normal haircuts, clothing, and Instagrams would suggest. 

I have a feeling that maybe when they get in relationships and don’t know how to act because they haven’t socialized much growing up (though more than say the Duggars bc they at least got away from their siblings a few hrs a day to go to local college) and certainly not with the opposite sex – I wonder if not knowing how to act, the fundie male behavior comes out. (And I wouldn’t be shocked if Kelly encourages it bc she seems like the type who is telling them – oh Chaney/Ashley are JUST the girl, there are plenty of fish in the sea, you are the MAN, what you want is what happens, OF COURSE you just TELL them you will live in Knox etc. While OTOH teaching her girls how to keep their man whipped starting day 1.)

The Nathan Ashley thing was doomed starting day 1 – no fiery NYC Latina is going to jump on your beck and call to move to Rocky Top to fold dresses and pretend to be besties with princess Erin and shrieky Carlin just bc you are THE MAN. With Trace who knows what happened, but apparently Chaney is in college. Maybe she goes to a real college/is pursuing a real degree and wanted to finish that and not just go to “online college” like Carlin did so she could have all the time in the world to sit and wait for a ring. Maybe she didn’t want to move to Rocky Top with her sole outlet being the sisters in law and the dumb boutique. And honestly I bet Trace would not even discuss the idea of moving to Texas – or together picking a 3rd city to live in – bc I honestly don’t believe he has the confidence to stand on his two feet like that. He NEEDS – due to a lack of education and training – to follow the paths laid out by his brothers/brothers in law; in Rocky Top he can cobble together a living and get himself a cottage like his married siblings. Chad is now required to employ any unemployed brother in law + he can always pick up tree work from dad + there’s always the metal shop that he could probably pick up hrs at as the owner knows mommy and daddy, Bobby, and Chad.

I don’t think Trace necessarily had the problem in courting that Zach said he had back in the day with Sarah Reith. Z has said that it felt so uncomfortable bc he never knew what to talk to her about, he had never even sat next to a girl before etc. That’s what led Gil/Kelly to add a “get to know you” period.

The positive for Z was that I think the broken courtship is where he realized that his parents had just been making up rules all along and they were full of crap and would not guarantee his happiness – even despite the fact that he had prayed and done all the oldest son duties for decades and it still didn’t work out.  So he started hanging out, saw a waitress he liked, became friends with her and then dated her without a 10 yr old in tow to chaperone, kissed her, married her even though [gasp] she wears pants, got himself a real job even if it means working with some non Christians and with that job got health insurance and retirement, bought a house with an evil mortgage bc he wanted a nice home not a cottage or falling down shack, put a tv in said house, and in 6 yrs of marriage has had 3 kids and it doesn’t look like he wants 10 or even 6.

And now he pretty much mocks Gil and Kelly. How they were never allowed to dance but now that they need their daughters to act somewhat romantic with men without kissing or sex – bam dancing is soooo classy. When Kelton was asking him about asking for Gil’s blessing – Z goes just tell him you’ve prayed on it and God says Josie is the one, how can he argue with that. Lol.

Z has stood up on his own two feet and IDK if Trace has what it takes. Honestly hopefully Trace doesn’t go down the bitter road that Nathan has. Trace appears to have made a lot of guy friends in college. Hope he gets it out there that he wants to marry asap – these are all local Tenn. guys who went to religious college – I’m sure one of them has a sister, cousin etc. that’s available.

Ashley wasn't ever going to settle for Nathan. She couldn't even fake that adoring smile and stare that they all have down. Watch the episodes where the boys are talking courtship with Gil and Kelly Jo. Josie, Tori, and even Carlin sit there quietly while the man speaks up and asks permission. They showed Ashley and Nathan going to dinner with Gil and Kelly Jo. Ashley pretty much gave Nathan a look that said she'd handle discussions herself and just blabbered on about the challenges of them making it work while apart. 

Zach has morphed into more of a normal person with Whitney over the years. When the show first started, he would refer to her as, "the best little mother ever" and the "prettiest wife." He now seems to interact with her as a human and not just an ornament. She's also a little less clingy about him and his family than she was before. Clearly she does still interact with them, but she's not quite so involved in everything. I think having work and kids makes that better for her. 

I know they aren't editing out things with Chaney. I'll be interested in seeing how Trace interacts with her. It will give a good clue as to how he might behave in a relationship in the future. I have hope he might find someone with some sort of personality and brain of her own. 

[floridamom]

Whitney stated on the show that Josie was their chaperone. Sadly, they were guarded on their 'dates' too. I wonder just how much this couple have changed their belief/lifestyle. I also believe that Whitney is a 'Bates pleaser', or more of a "Kelly pleaser'. They still have a lot of pressure from Zach's parents to behave a certain way. Sad, really that they can't be who THEY are for threat of being shunned.

[RebeccatheWriter]

3 hours ago, floridamom said:

Whitney stated on the show that Josie was their chaperone. Sadly, they were guarded on their 'dates' too. I wonder just how much this couple have changed their belief/lifestyle. I also believe that Whitney is a 'Bates pleaser', or more of a "Kelly pleaser'. They still have a lot of pressure from Zach's parents to behave a certain way. Sad, really that they can't be who THEY are for threat of being shunned.

Yes, they did use the chaperone system. But from deducing and reading between the lines, Zach apparently visited her at work often while he was on break at his job. I'm doubting that he had a chaperone each of those times. 

Whitney does seem to have either some self-doubt going on with her. It was way more pronounced during the early days, as she fell in line with the sisters. Even in the first episode, Kelly Jo was assigning each of the older girls tasks and assigned heavily pregnant Whitney tasks too. Whitney seems to seek approval in general, adopting terms and phrases that others use and mimicking different things. The most I saw her speak out at first was when she was pregnant the second time and Kelly Jo told her that she would bring the younger children over to help paint the nursery for both kids. She quickly said no and Erin laughed about how quickly that went down.

From the little we saw of Chaney, I could see that Kelly Jo is still a bulldozer in her children's potential love life. The sons-in-law all talk about how tough it is to talk to Gil, but Kelly Jo is relentless when it comes to her children's boyfriends or girlfriends. She pressures them to propose or to conform. I think Kelton was the only one she didn't, but there were on screen moments where she was overly involved. She was practically getting married herself at Tori's wedding. I will never forget Ms Renee unveiling Tori's dress only to have Kelly rush up to look at it and literally step in front of her daughter, the bride. Tori wanted to be hands off, but it was still rude to jump into the one thing Tori showed interest in and excitement about.

I will be interested if any of the boys ever do get to the alter to see how Kelly Jo behaves about the wedding. Will she take over as she does with her daughters? I had fears with how quiet Chaney seems that it would be exactly that. I think Chaney dodged a big bullet there. 

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, RebeccatheWriter said:

Yes, they did use the chaperone system. But from deducing and reading between the lines, Zach apparently visited her at work often while he was on break at his job. I'm doubting that he had a chaperone each of those times. 

Whitney does seem to have either some self-doubt going on with her. It was way more pronounced during the early days, as she fell in line with the sisters. Even in the first episode, Kelly Jo was assigning each of the older girls tasks and assigned heavily pregnant Whitney tasks too. Whitney seems to seek approval in general, adopting terms and phrases that others use and mimicking different things. The most I saw her speak out at first was when she was pregnant the second time and Kelly Jo told her that she would bring the younger children over to help paint the nursery for both kids. She quickly said no and Erin laughed about how quickly that went down.

From the little we saw of Chaney, I could see that Kelly Jo is still a bulldozer in her children's potential love life. The sons-in-law all talk about how tough it is to talk to Gil, but Kelly Jo is relentless when it comes to her children's boyfriends or girlfriends. She pressures them to propose or to conform. I think Kelton was the only one she didn't, but there were on screen moments where she was overly involved. She was practically getting married herself at Tori's wedding. I will never forget Ms Renee unveiling Tori's dress only to have Kelly rush up to look at it and literally step in front of her daughter, the bride. Tori wanted to be hands off, but it was still rude to jump into the one thing Tori showed interest in and excitement about.

I will be interested if any of the boys ever do get to the alter to see how Kelly Jo behaves about the wedding. Will she take over as she does with her daughters? I had fears with how quiet Chaney seems that it would be exactly that. I think Chaney dodged a big bullet there. 

I wouldn't be surprised if she did. Someone bulldozed Zach and Whitney's wedding too. Whitney originally wanted to get married in the spring or summer and had picked different colors. Nope, she was told it had to be December and she had to change her colors. It was claimed because Alyssa was getting married around that time. But it makes zero sense when you realize Zach and Whitney got married a month after Erin. Whitney's vow removal is closer to what she wanted in the first place. 

Also, we do know Kelly tried hard to find someone else to court Zach instead of Whitney. She was going around her circles trying to find someone. But nope Zach only wanted Whitney. Not long after that Whitney suddenly became "convicted" to wear skirts and talking the talk. Whether worn down or just going along with it. Whitney seem to become the Fundie wife. Until she and Zach both seemed to get confidence and start making their own decisions. 

[cereality]

Kelly totally bulldozes wherever she can, so certainly she would lord her status as MOTHER IN LAW over any daughter in law. She tried to do that with Whit and succeeded to an extent -- esp since Whit has people pleasing tendencies and must be liked -- but it seems like it's died down now as Zach has stood up on his own two feet and established how HE wants his marriage to go -- he's ok with his wife leaving the home for her "real estate job" part time as it may be; he wants a 9-5; he wants a nice home; a mortgage; a TV etc. And there isn't much Kelly can do about that since he after all is the headship in that home, so I think she's backed off Whit a bit bc she knows Zach and Whit are a true team.

Trace OTOH would totally allow Chaney to be bulldozed as he can't stand on his own two feet yet. Who knows maybe it was already happening and Chaney was not liking what the future looked like with a spineless man who can hardly earn a living + his overbearing mother so she bailed early on.

The only ones Kelly has laid off of are John and Kelton -- bc she isn't stupid. With John she totally respects that he has moved Alyssa off to Florida, Alyssa is totally close with HIS family, and Alyssa and John act as a team so if she bullies too much, she'll see even less of them. Funny how with Alyssa they TOTALLY respect that she doesn't like chaos and disorder in her home, so they never bring all 17 kids + grandkids, they ALWAYS stay in AirBnBs, and when they are in her home with the younger kids, they are constantly watching and following the kids to make sure nothing is destroyed. And then Kelton -- he's given off an FU vibe since day 1 -- probably bc he doesn't respect them telling him to buzz off a few years ago. And I think over there also, she realizes if she pushes to hard, Kelton will decide he and Josie are going to spend even more time with his family and even less with her.

Spineless Chad and Bobby were the easiest. I'm surprised they haven't had Chad build them a new house yet. Bobby -- yeah we'll just badger him about moving to Tenn ASAP, look we have a trailer ready to go on an abandoned lot for you, who cares if it has no electricity, you're gonna be at our house 24-7 anyway while I beg you to propose.

And Brandon was just an embarrassment. There was a meet up with his parents in Chicago and Kelly spoke 99% of the time being like -- when are you getting engaged; why not now; what do you mean school; how much school; does school really matter; why not get married now etc. etc. It was downright embarrassing as it just showed how reluctant Brandon was to marry in the first place and how Kelly as practically begging him in front of his parents to marry Michael.

Evan IDK. I feel like Evan, Kelly, and Carlin are all attention whores -- so the dynamic kinda works. 

[RebeccatheWriter]

15 hours ago, cereality said:

Evan IDK. I feel like Evan, Kelly, and Carlin are all attention whores -- so the dynamic kinda works. 

We didn't really see John and Alyssa together pre-marriage. I have a feeling she was probably up in his business too. With John, I think Alyssa uses him as a bit of a buffer. Alyssa hasn't even allowed her parents to be in the delivery room (unlike her sisters). When she was pregnant the first time, she said that she and John wouldn't allow Alyssa's family to visit right after the baby was born. Katie and Tori were arguing with Alyssa, along with Kelly to get access. 

John's a bit of a higher class than the other sons-in-law with his connection to politics through his dad. Kelly gives some lip service to them moving back, but I think she's aware that John's family gets first access to them and not her. However, given the chance, she totally would take control there too.

You are right that Carlin loves that attention. Evan seems to appreciate it too. It's hard to say if it was more show/producer driven or simply part of Kelly Jo's M.O., but Evan got railroaded into including Kelly Jo in way too many decisions, as did Kelton and Bobby in the decision on the proposal location. I personally wouldn't want my mother planning my proposal and honeymoon. I'm hoping that was "just for television."

I'm dying for one of the girls to say to her, "we'll send you an invite, but we don't need your help."

I think a big part of the reason for the vow renewal for Zach and Whitney was that Kelly Jo's hands were way too involved in their wedding. Most of her attention and support went for Erin's the month before, but the overly modest dress and cheap reception, etc. screamed of Kelly Jo's aesthetic. 

She's going to be murder on the future daughters-in-law. From that little we saw last season she made Chaney act as a judge for the costume contest. That had to be awkward when there are a bunch of people you don't necessarily know by name and sight. With all the modeling she did for the boutique, I'm willing to bet Kelly Jo "encouraged" that too. It's not like they are paying their models.

[andromeda331]

Your right! I completely forgot she did bulldoze Josie and Kelton when Kelton was wondering where to propose she bulldozed him into picking Utah and proposing at the Arches. She said that was a place Josie always liked and said she wanted to get married at. So naturally Kelly decided it was the perfect place for her to be proposed too. No one ever explained why Josie couldn't get married there. Take family and a few friends to Utah and she gets the wedding she wants but no.  Then when Josie tried on the wedding dress she loved Kelly immediately bulldozed her into switching the inside of the dress to a different color just like she did for Tori's wedding dress. Now Tori who admitted she didn't care about anything actually looked happy when she put on her dress before Kelly said something. Same when Carlin picked out her dress. Kelly was not invited when Whitney picked out her sleeveless and kind of hot vow renewal dress. She railroaded Bobby and Evan's proposal plans too. Maybe they were producer driven but I'm not entirely sure. Evan started out talking about things Carlin would actually love but ended up agreeing with Kelly to go a lighthouse in Maine. Sure cause that sounds like Carlin. Someone who loves attention, music and dancing would totally love a lighthouse in Maine. 

As mention Kelly's crazy behavior with Brandon and Bobby when both were courting Michael and Tori about when would they propose. Brandon had two reasons for not proposing first his class which for some reason they weren't allowed to be engaged during the class (which is stupid but hey Kelly that's the cult you picked) and after he finished he wanted to save up some money. You know like a normal person. Its crazy the way she kept on both of them. 

I do agree the only reason Kelly isn't able to bulldoze Alyssa and John is they are both good at putting their foot down. They did show Kelly trying to convince Alyssa to move back to TN conveniently as Josie and Carlin were about to leave and Kelly realized she would need someone else to raise her kids. But Alyssa said no. Of course not long after that Michael and Tori announced they were moving back. I hope Michael or Brandon are good at putting their foot down but they already showed Michael agreeing to help out in the afternoons at Kelly's. God forbid Kelly should do it.

When setting up for Whitney's baby shower or Bradley's 1st birthday someone mentioned if you have something your good at Gil and Kelly will take advantage of it. Which we've seen with the most with Chad. Anything they want build or done? Chad'll do it. He's pretty much the most whipped Bates in-law.  True Erin's been the one bulldozing him. She learned well from her mother. He'll do it. He won't ever say no. Even after he's admitted that Erin says yes to projects without talking to him and makes sure to tell him when she knows he can't say no. 

Between Nathan and Kelly its easy to see why Ashley bailed. It'll be interesting if we see why Chaney bails since their not going to erase her out of the upcoming season. I can easily see why most girls would rather bail then end up with Kelly as a mother-in-law.  She's already shown herself to being a terrible one to all the ones she currently has.  

[Sew Sumi]

Just saw the season preview. Traney will be heavily featured, including Trace asking her to court. 

Oops!

[crimson23]

I saw this comment by fan on Chaney's Insta....

"here’s hoping that all the TV show fans will move on and you can get back to a normal life."

I am not sure what that person is alluding to. Did Chaney not like the attention she was getting or being on the show?  Maybe she wants out of the spotlight, which is understandable....but I can't stop from wondering how this person even knew who Chaney was and started to follow.  They have to realize without the Bates, no one would even know who she is and she would have nowhere near 13K fans.   Might be time for her to get off Social Media if she doesn't like the attention. 

[Sew Sumi]

It's possible that was an acquaintance of hers and not a fan, who should be moving on, nothing to see here.

[NotthebadVictoria]

I’m guessing it wasn’t just a break up and she had enough of him. I’m guessing he proposed and she realized her free will was over and politely declined it. 
 

the timing seems right for a proposal.

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, crimson23 said:

I saw this comment by fan on Chaney's Insta....

"here’s hoping that all the TV show fans will move on and you can get back to a normal life."

I am not sure what that person is alluding to. Did Chaney not like the attention she was getting or being on the show?  Maybe she wants out of the spotlight, which is understandable....but I can't stop from wondering how this person even knew who Chaney was and started to follow.  They have to realize without the Bates, no one would even know who she is and she would have nowhere near 13K fans.   Might be time for her to get off Social Media if she doesn't like the attention. 

I agree that's a rather odd comment. It's not like Chaney is some A-list celebrity with media and fans hounding every aspect of her private life. She's a minor blip on a minor cable show on a minor cable network. She'll be able to move on just fine with her life.

Edited February 16, 2020 by BitterApple