Who's Next: Succession Spoilers & Speculation

[Aethera]

A place to speculate based off previews or just your own imagination. Spoilers welcome here, but let's keep them out of the episode threads. 

[Eyes High]

Press Release for 2x10:

On the Roys’ grand Mediterranean yacht, Logan (Brian Cox) weighs whether a member of the family[1], or a top lieutenant[2], will need to be sacrificed to salvage the company’s tarnished reputation. Roman (Kieran Culkin) shares his hesitations about a new source of financing[3], as Kendall (Jeremy Strong) suggests a familiar alternative[4]. Shiv (Sarah Snook) proposes taking her open marriage with Tom (Matthew Macfadyen) to another level[5]. Connor (Alan Ruck) finds himself in an unenviable position as reviews of Willa’s (Justine Lupe) play roll in [6].

1. Member of the family: Greg, Tom, or Kendall?

2. Top lieutenant: Gerri or Frank? There is a shot in the 2x10 promo of Logan taking Gerri's hand at the table when he informs everyone that he needs a meaningful skull to wave around for the shareholders' benefit.

3. Roman's hesitations about a new source of financing: He has misgivings about the Asgarov deal, as we see Laird addressing Roman in the 2x10 promo about what will happen if they don't take the company private.

4. Kendall's familiar alternative: Since we know Naomi is in the finale from filming pics of the actress in Croatia with the cast where they filmed 2x10, I'm guessing the "familiar alternative" is the Pierce acquisition.

5. Another level for the open marriage: Divorce, maybe?

6. Willa's play: I'm guessing the reviews are terrible, judging from Willa throwing her phone in the 2x10 promo...and I assume that will place Connor in an unenviable position because the show closing early will mean that he'll have no way to recoup his investment.

I'm guessing the finale will be a grim affair, judging from the title ("This is Not For Tears") and these comments from Matthew Macfadyen about what we can expect from Tom in the season finale:

Quote

What can I say? At the risk of being boring, I don’t know what I can say, and also it’s weird because the memory of shooting it is one thing and actually what it's like is another thing, so I won't say anything at the risk of preempting [the show].

Edited October 9, 2019 by Eyes High

[Francie]

I just wanted to play the random speculation game.

Naomi Pierce is going to die next episode (Kendall's 40th birthday), isn't she? Kendall's spiraling, and usually that means that someone near him is going to pay. 

Will Connor Roy actually gain some traction in the presidential race? While ATN can't get behind him, they also can't really squash him if there's a groundswell of popular support. I would love to see Shiv secretly throw her weight behind Connor because he's a better alternative to Menken the Fascist. I think the run will be the presidential run with be the subject of Season 4. 

 

[Ellaria]

More random speculation...

My guess is that the show will last 5 seasons. If so, we are half-way thru the show. We have seen Logan down and nearly out a number of times. His health is failing. Still, he always comes out on top. The kids keep trying to gain control/influence (and "the top job") and, so far, no one has done it successfully. I thought that Kendall might prevail after the S2 Finale but he appears more lost than ever. 

With that in mind, nothing dramatic will happen this season but the status quo has to start to shift. It may start this season. (I don't think that Logan survives to the end of the show but he isn't going to depart any time soon.) Tom seems poised for a CYA move. Did he hire a lawyer? Will he go to the Feds?

Equally, Greg keeps bouncing all over the place but, at some point, that character has to do "something." What his Ewan's purpose in the show going forward? I'm not sure that he is clever enough to make a major move but he is becoming desperate.

 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Ellaria Sand

[Kirsty]

A commenter on the Guardian recap of this episode put Logan's comment about Peter Munnion together with Kendall's age ie. Logan said that Kendall's mother's new fiance is a man who has been sniffing around her for forty years, right? And Kendall is turning forty. So what if Logan is not Kendall's biological father?

It would be one hell of a twist! And it might push Kendall over the edge. But it's such a fundamental change that I don't know if the writers would do it.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Kirsty

[Cramps]

On 11/23/2021 at 9:54 AM, Kirsty said:

A commenter on the Guardian recap of this episode put Logan's comment about Peter Munnion together with Kendall's age ie. Logan said that Kendall's mother's new fiance is a man who has been sniffing around her for forty years, right? And Kendall is turning forty. So what if Logan is not Kendall's biological father?

It would be one hell of a twist! And it might push Kendall over the edge. But it's such a fundamental change that I don't know if the writers would do it.

THAT is really interesting. I don’t know how much more over the edge manic pixie nightmare boy can spin, but it would certainly give the show a much needed plot twist. 

[aghst]

My speculation is that as long as Bryan Cox is okay, health-wise, he will be around throughout the entire series, 2-3 more seasons.

His character is too popular.  The actors playing the other characters are good but Logan has most of the gravity.  Show wouldn't be the same without Logan.

And the personality of Logan is that he isn't going to step back and anoint one of his children to take the spotlight.

Or make the big decisions.

He'd probably pass away without naming a successor.  In that case, the children would all sue each other.  Even if he named one of them, they might still sue each other contesting his will.

If he does name one while still alive, the other kids won't take it easily.  They don't depend on being second in command or having some other executive suite role because they all have equity.  Logan offered Kendall $2 billion for his share.

All of them have money to walk away.  They  won't be happy about not getting chosen and there is no way any of them will work under another.

 

[7-Zark-7]

I'm getting an awful feeling that Roman will commit suicide. I thought it at first when he told Gerri he was sad after he learned of his father's death, and she left the room without comforting him and he hit his head against a wall. And I thought it again when he told Matsson "I'm dead. It's over for me. It's okay, it's fine." He seems isolated. His father's gone. Gerri's not playing ball anymore. He's trying to keep the sibling trio in tact but Roman and Shiv are going their separate ways. He needs more connection than the others do, and he's not getting it.

[Notwisconsin]

Greg will wind up with everything.

[Cramps]

14 hours ago, Notwisconsin said:

Greg will wind up with everything.

I’ve been thinking that for a couple of years. With his grandfathers stock and potentially Marsha’s backing, who always seems to like him. And with Tom working under him. Plus we still haven’t read the will. But it seems too far fetched. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Cramps

[kimchibucatini]

With SO much speculation following the last episode re: Greg winding up on top, I'd like to throw another vote in for Tom. There was something to him putting it ALL out there for Shiv. Also - and I wish I could take credit for this but I read it either on a thread here or Reddit - his last name is akin to Bill Wambsganns, a second baseman in MLB in the mid 1910s-1920s. "He is best remembered for making one of the most spectacular defensive plays in World Series history, an unassisted triple play."    

[realityplease]

On 5/2/2023 at 1:45 PM, kimchibucatini said:

With SO much speculation following the last episode re: Greg winding up on top, I'd like to throw another vote in for Tom. There was something to him putting it ALL out there for Shiv. Also - and I wish I could take credit for this but I read it either on a thread here or Reddit - his last name is akin to Bill Wambsganns, a second baseman in MLB in the mid 1910s-1920s. "He is best remembered for making one of the most spectacular defensive plays in World Series history, an unassisted triple play."    

I don't see him putting it all out there for Shiv - at least not to benefit her.  He's calculated how to appeal to her, benefit himself, or at very least, keep himself power adjacent.  With some sad sympathetic faces & a plausible reason for choosing Logan over her.  But, in fact, he did choose Logan.  And nothing indicates he wouldn't hitch himself to someone else's star, if needed.  Because he'll always opt for ultimate utility & his own self-interest over love.  Ever the doofus who investigates how to make prison wine or write missives that need to be destroyed.  Though making it far, he's not on the same level as Mattson (though quirky) & the movers & shakers of the world.  As he'd need to be - if put at the helm of Waystar.  

If sucking up to Shiv helps him to snag or keep Cyd Peach's position at ATN, that's a nice play.  But otherwise, he was merely a useful idiot for Logan - helping Logan keep tabs on The Rats' doings via Shiv & firing Cyd.  But not seriously considered for interim CEO - by anybody - no matter how often he tried to offer his services to all of them.  Not supported by those on the inside, & while not on the kill list, not especially valued by anyone on the outside, nor has he cultivated any special connections to anyone on the Board.  Don't see it being Tom.

Edited May 4, 2023 by realityplease

[absnow54]

On 5/2/2023 at 4:45 PM, kimchibucatini said:

Also - and I wish I could take credit for this but I read it either on a thread here or Reddit - his last name is akin to Bill Wambsganns, a second baseman in MLB in the mid 1910s-1920s. "He is best remembered for making one of the most spectacular defensive plays in World Series history, an unassisted triple play."    

I think there's significance, but him outmaneuvering the siblings in the season three finale was probably his triple play. Bill Wambsganss didn't achieve much significance beyond that play. In fact, his only recognition in the Baseball Hall of Fame is the AAGPBL (the women's league) for which he coached for a few seasons.

On 4/25/2023 at 8:26 PM, Notwisconsin said:

Greg will wind up with everything.

This has been pointed out elsewhere, but Mattson's Doderick reference in Living+ could be seen as foreshadowing. When we first meet Greg, he's puking in his Doderick costume at the Waystar theme park. 

 

[BlackberryJam]

I don’t think this is a GoT type show where there are subtle clues along the way that are showing who “ends on top.” And all of those GoT “clues” turned out to be crap anyway, at least as far as the show goes. 

I think it ends with Mattson, or Sandy or Stewy or some conglomerate, or just the board of directors, voting out the Roy family and leaving them with only a pile of money and no company to play with or employees to boss around while the employees stroke Roy egos. Connor loses the election. Kendall, Roman and Shiv go to the Waystar/Royco Building to…pretend like they are still in charge, security doesn’t even let them upstairs and they get handed boxes of their personal possession. They go to get in one of the SUVs and are told, “sorry, these are company cars.” 

Kendall: Should we like, order an Uber or something?

Shiv pulls out her phone: Dammit, they shut off our ‘company’ phones too. Rome, do you have a second dick pic sending phone?

Roman: No I do not *outraged* I just have a second phone for, you know, times like this, shut up. The fucking Uber app won’t work because it’s linked to the company credit card. 

Shiv: We have billions in the bank and can’t even call a car? Fucking ridiculous.

Kendall: Maybe we could walk to Rava’s? Her place is like…four blocks?

Roman: Is she even taking your calls?

Kendall stares blankly: She will. I mean. Probably.

Tom and Greg roll up in a shitty taxi. “Hey Shiv, I just, hey. I thought, well. I mean…”

Shiv looks at Tom. Tom shoves Greg out of the car. Shiv hops in and they take off.

Rome finds $50 in his pocket and buys a bicycle off someone on the street, rides off leaving his box behind.

Kendall stands on the sidewalk with his box as rap music plays.

Greg: Do you want me to carry that for you? I have, you know, long arms, and I’m strong, not like going to the gym strong, but because of the length of my arms I have technically more muscle than people with shorter arms, not that you have short arms, just that if we measure in inches….

Fade out.

The End.

Sorry, I got carried away there, but I don’t see the Roy family ending up with anything. 

[laurakaye]

Bravo, and true to every character.  I like it.

But man, I would love to see Connor, the eldest son, come out on top somehow.  

Edited May 4, 2023 by laurakaye

[RedDelicious]

Cousin Greg is the frigging bowl of onion rings in the Sopranos. He makes absolutely no sense and Greg winding up as the successor would make me question why I invested in the entire series for him to be the closing scene.

[marybennet]

I don’t think cousin Gregg will wind up with it all, though I did way back in the first season. But if he did, it would fulfill that aspect of the show that sees business as to be mocked, as not about merit in any way, as about the power of the presentation (Kendall, Theranos, WeWork) without regard to what’s behind it or what isn’t. In that version of the show, what would make more sense than to show up the emptiness by making the empty, grasping, amoral, kinda stupid guy win?

Edited May 6, 2023 by marybennet

[dmc]

The spoiler word on the streets Jiminez wins and looks the Roys backed the wrong guy

[Dminches]

31 minutes ago, dmc said:

The spoiler word on the streets Jiminez wins and looks the Roys backed the wrong guy

That would mean that multiple states were called wrong since the Wisconsin situation could take weeks, if not more, to sort out and there are only 2 days left.

 

[dmc]

13 minutes ago, Dminches said:

That would mean that multiple states were called wrong since the Wisconsin situation could take weeks, if not more, to sort out and there are only 2 days left.

 

I don’t know how it will work writing wise 

 

But it looks like news outlets have heard too…

 

Via Vulture 

 

(Before I go any further, however, I want to tell you on the down-low that exit polls say Jiménez. No leaks, please.)

 

https://www.vulture.com/article/succession-recap-season-4-episode-8-america-decides.html

[absnow54]

56 minutes ago, Dminches said:

That would mean that multiple states were called wrong since the Wisconsin situation could take weeks, if not more, to sort out and there are only 2 days left.

Episode 9 will be the next day, but I think episode 10 might have to cover a significant amount of time. Menken's victory is supposed to help them block the GoJo deal, but that's meaningless until the elections are certified and he can, at the least, set up a transition team. Otherwise, it'll have to wait until January when he's sworn in.

I'm hoping Cousin Greg weaseling his way into Mattson's inner circle is a red herring, and not setting him up as the ultimate successor. I feel like America Decides really laid the foundation for it (Greg out maneuvering Shiv, Tom desperately trying to keep Greg his whipping boy...)

[Dminches]

I will be very happy if episode 10 jumps ahead to when the Roy kids are broke.

 

[Dminches]

1 hour ago, dmc said:

 

 

https://www.vulture.com/article/succession-recap-season-4-episode-8-america-decides.html

The Vulture article was more enjoyable to read than the show was to watch.

 

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, dmc said:

(Before I go any further, however, I want to tell you on the down-low that exit polls say Jiménez. No leaks, please.)

That's a line that came directly from the show last night so I don't think it's a spoiler for future episodes. 

 

 

[Dminches]

3 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

That's a line that came directly from the show last night so I don't think it's a spoiler for future episodes. 

 

 

Except, in the article the "I" was in italics which I took as the author of the article passing on some information.

 

[dmc]

17 minutes ago, Dminches said:

Except, in the article the "I" was in italics which I took as the author of the article passing on some information.

 

That’s the rumor making the rounds.  I did not see the script and have no idea how it plays out. 

22 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

That's a line that came directly from the show last night so I don't think it's a spoiler for future episodes. 

 

 

The I was in italics and that’s the word making the rounds.

[Irlandesa]

28 minutes ago, Dminches said:

Except, in the article the "I" was in italics which I took as the author of the article passing on some information.

 

I just think it's a joke because multiple people said last night that they heard the exit polls were saying Jiminez but not to leak.

I believe that there are rumors about it but recaps don't spoil future episodes or they'd lose their screener privileges.

[BlackberryJam]

I’m just spitballin’ some ideas of here this goes. I think Waystar Royco ends up a worthless entity that no one wants. 

So Wisconsin actually ends up going for Jimenez and then Mencken sues ATN, splitting the ATN fan base? 

Does the board unite to remove the CE-Bros?

Where are Sandy (and Sandy) and Stewy? Doesn’t Marcia get a seat on the board now with Logan dead?

Ewan makes an appearance the funeral. I suspect Roman is going to screw up the eulogy completely. It’s going to be Kendall-rapping level of public humiliation. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

It’s going to be Kendall-rapping level of public humiliation. 

L to the OG
Dead is OG
A-N he'n not playing
He's dead as can be
L to the OG
Dude be the OG
A-N he not playing
He's dead oh oh

[sistermagpie]

13 hours ago, absnow54 said:

I'm hoping Cousin Greg weaseling his way into Mattson's inner circle is a red herring, and not setting him up as the ultimate successor. I feel like America Decides really laid the foundation for it (Greg out maneuvering Shiv, Tom desperately trying to keep Greg his whipping boy...)

I honestly don't get what Greg would be successor to or what he'd be getting from anyone.

[absnow54]

On 5/15/2023 at 10:45 PM, sistermagpie said:

I honestly don't get what Greg would be successor to or what he'd be getting from anyone.

Assuming the Mattson deal goes through, I think Greg might be given a symbolic President & CEO type role of the Waystar Royco division. Basically whatever Shiv is gunning for in her current dealings with him. He will not actually have any power, but he will get to continue in the lifestyle of a powerful executive, which seems to be the only thing he actually cares about. Greg doesn't have the same ambitions as the Roy kids, so his threshold for "winning" is far lower. 

[cardigirl]

Apparently there are theories about the ending of Succession tied to the poem, Dream Song 29 by John Berryman.

There sat down, once, a thing on Henry's heart
só heavy, if he had a hundred years
& more, & weeping, sleepless, in all them time
Henry could not make good.
Starts again always in Henry's ears
the little cough somewhere, an odour, a chime.

And there is another thing he has in mind
ike a grave Sienese face
a thousand years would fail to blur the still profiled reproach of.
Ghastly, with open eyes, he attends, blind.
All the bells say: too late. This is not for tears;
thinking.

But never did Henry, as he thought he did,
end anyone and hacks her body up
and hide the pieces, where they may be found.
He knows: he went over everyone, & nobody's missing.
Often he reckons, in the dawn, them up.
Nobody is ever missing.

The last episode of all of the seasons have titles pulled from this poem:

Season 1: Episode 10  Nobody is ever missing
Season 2: Episode 10  This is not for tears
Season 3: Episode 9  All the bells say
Season 4: Episode 10  With open eyes

Not sure what it all means, but I find it fascinating and also I love that Berryman's poetry figures in here somehow.  

This article discusses it. https://www.gq.com/story/succession-final-episode-with-open-eyes-john-berryman-dream-poem-29

and contains this paragraph:

The Berryman invocation is a dark one. Berryman, a contemporary of Sylvia Plath, was tormented by the death of his father, who shot himself when Berryman was 12. Berryman himself would later jump to his own death off of the Washington Avenue Bridge in Minnesota in 1972.

Hmmm.... 

[IvySpice]

On 5/15/2023 at 11:16 AM, BlackberryJam said:

I suspect Roman is going to screw up the eulogy completely. It’s going to be Kendall-rapping level of public humiliation. 

Nice prediction, @BlackberryJam! You only understated the humiliation a bit. We never saw Kendall's rap becoming a viral meme like Roman's tears.

[BlackberryJam]

On 5/4/2023 at 12:08 PM, BlackberryJam said:

I don’t think this is a GoT type show where there are subtle clues along the way that are showing who “ends on top.” And all of those GoT “clues” turned out to be crap anyway, at least as far as the show goes. 

I think it ends with Mattson, or Sandy or Stewy or some conglomerate, or just the board of directors, voting out the Roy family and leaving them with only a pile of money and no company to play with or employees to boss around while the employees stroke Roy egos. Connor loses the election. Kendall, Roman and Shiv go to the Waystar/Royco Building to…pretend like they are still in charge, security doesn’t even let them upstairs and they get handed boxes of their personal possession. They go to get in one of the SUVs and are told, “sorry, these are company cars.” 

Kendall: Should we like, order an Uber or something?

Shiv pulls out her phone: Dammit, they shut off our ‘company’ phones too. Rome, do you have a second dick pic sending phone?

Roman: No I do not *outraged* I just have a second phone for, you know, times like this, shut up. The fucking Uber app won’t work because it’s linked to the company credit card. 

Shiv: We have billions in the bank and can’t even call a car? Fucking ridiculous.

Kendall: Maybe we could walk to Rava’s? Her place is like…four blocks?

Roman: Is she even taking your calls?

Kendall stares blankly: She will. I mean. Probably.

Tom and Greg roll up in a shitty taxi. “Hey Shiv, I just, hey. I thought, well. I mean…”

Shiv looks at Tom. Tom shoves Greg out of the car. Shiv hops in and they take off.

Rome finds $50 in his pocket and buys a bicycle off someone on the street, rides off leaving his box behind.

Kendall stands on the sidewalk with his box as rap music plays.

Greg: Do you want me to carry that for you? I have, you know, long arms, and I’m strong, not like going to the gym strong, but because of the length of my arms I have technically more muscle than people with shorter arms, not that you have short arms, just that if we measure in inches….

Fade out.

The End.

Sorry, I got carried away there, but I don’t see the Roy family ending up with anything. 

Quoting myself because though I didn’t have Tom as CEO and Greg along for that ride, I got GoJo taking over, Roman going off on his own,Tom and Shiv driving off in a car and Kendall on the street. I’m giving myself props.

[aghst]

They HAVE to do a movie in a couple of years like they did with SATC.

Then sequels if they go well.

But Armstrong seems to be satisfied with how he ended so he may not be interested.

[absnow54]

16 minutes ago, aghst said:

They HAVE to do a movie in a couple of years like they did with SATC.

I was thinking the same thing, but agree, Jesse Armstrong was very intent on this being a tragedy, and there's only so many times we can watch Kendall try to acquire Waystar, only for everything to fall apart. I'd love follow up on the election, and to see how long Tom stays CEO before GoJo does a re-org, and of course, Greg's lawsuit with Greenpeace.